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On March 05 2013 00:09 zarepath wrote:
Um read my post I'm still 7 pages away from being caught up. I really hope you answer my question in those 7 pages or else this is going to look like a dodge from you.
Seeing as you've dodged a third of the game I wouldn't be talking...even if you were busy there's no need to be hypocritical.
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On March 05 2013 00:26 Sylencia wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2013 23:52 cDgCorazon wrote:Alright, well I've come to my decision. It was a tough one, so I decided to take a look at all of the veteran TLers who have flipped VT this game and see their thoughts: On March 03 2013 12:48 thrawn2112 wrote:
d3: lynch yamato.
if yamato flips scum then do whatever the hell you want. if yamato turns out to be town I think hapa and acro should be flipped next. On February 26 2013 07:59 marvellosity wrote:
Ok, so I'm hoping deadline is about to happen. Here's what I think of people so far.
Probably town:
yamato - aggression, thread presence, decent reads, etc
People I'm a bit suspicious of:
Hapahauli - he's just done nothing to make me think he's town, and Hapa is very capable of coming across town. Like iamp mentions, defends himself too much instead of doing proactive things. *could* just be a bad start.
On February 28 2013 12:38 iamperfection wrote:On February 28 2013 12:29 Adam4167 wrote:
No, that is called being unavailable.
How the hell is not being here 24/7 mafia motivated? its calling having a life outside this forum. hapa is in the same time zone as me. Hapa knows that playing mafia is a commitment hapa knows proving your towniness is important hapa knows that activity and discussion are how you catch mafia He has shown no interest in those things top it off with his shit start that was all defense and no scum hunting and the simple explanation is that hapa is mafia. And the survey says... ##Vote: HapaAlso I cannot see any possible ways that Hapa's actions could be town-oriented. I could see Yamato's play being town a lot easier (still hard though) than Hapa's play. I don't have much to add to today's duel - the only point I can really add is that while you're using other opinions to decide your vote, can you really value marv's judgment as equal as others? He says it in his post himself - 'could be a bad start', seeing as how he was in the game for 24 hours where some people hadn't talked yet. Personally, I find Hapa's defense posts in day 3, his read on yamato during day 2 and yamato's duel-while-everyone-is-afk to really add up to a compelling argument for me to vote yam. On the other hand, considering day 1 and day 2 have resulted in a mafia lynching I don't see why yamato is actually just openly claiming that a lynch on him is ok to get more info. After reading the case on Hapa, I also find it to be rather weak - primarily the day 2 case on Hapa. The only compelling thing for me is the disappearance of Hapa during the later stages of that duel but I think the quotes provided don't make for a strong scum case against him. I'm going to be sleeping on this, but I don't honestly expect to be coming up with many miracle answers to this problem and in advance I'm going to apologize (primarily to Cora here) for being such a useless townie. On a side note, if we want to maximize our chances of winning, one of the next duels should result in a double lynch. (Town chooses kill today, Night Kill, Town, Town, Night, Town, Night, Town, Town) gives us 6 kills to choose from and 3 controlled by scum. This is different to Town, Night, Town, Night, Town, Night, Town, Town where we get 5 kills and they still get 3. tl;dr sometime during this duel or the next 2 duels, we have an extra spare lynch. This is assuming no vig/protection/thingswhichstop1NK.
It's never too late to redeem yourself Syl.
Who do you think is the last (hypothetical) scum assuming that Yamato and Hapa aren't bussing each other?
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We'll let the flip talk Zare, whether it's Yamato or Hapa.
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On March 05 2013 00:52 zarepath wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 00:46 cDgCorazon wrote:
We'll let the flip talk Zare, whether it's Yamato or Hapa. What does that even mean? We shouldn't bother breaking down our arguments to make sure they're rigorous before we lynch someone; we should just lynch someone and see if we were right?
I've made my decision and you've made yours. Unless something crazy happens I'm not changing my mind.
Do you really think Yamato's willingness to die is a scumtell? If his flip proves that Hapa is scum then I think dying would be worth it in all honesty...
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On March 05 2013 00:58 Oatsmaster wrote:
Why does Yamato flipping town mean that Hapa is scum Cora?
Well unless you think the scum is Zarepath and someone else...?
The fact that many of us wanted to see a Zare/Hapa duel and the fact that Zare is adamantly defending Hapa (without even bothering to consider the things that could make Hapa scummy) is very suspicious to me.
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On March 05 2013 01:08 Oatsmaster wrote:
I wanted to see a zare/yamato dude.
Or yamato/acro.
Am I scummy for defending Hapa?
It looks like the only reason that people have for calling hapa scum is that his activity has not been like his normal town games. Which isnt all that strong.
That's not hard defending Hapa, that's either soft defending Hapa (as scum) or just having Hapa lower down your scumreads. That's not scummy.
Zare just suddenly makes a decision after being away from 3 days and it looks like he cannot see anything that would make Hapa scum. I don't like it.
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On March 05 2013 01:15 zarepath wrote:Show nested quote +On February 27 2013 03:47 Hapahauli wrote:
Anyway, I need to stop defending Adam and let him speak for himself. That being said, this situation screams like a stupid emotional decision rather than a sinister mafia plan.
Interested to see Kei's reads. Have only seen his views on Thrawn and Adam so far. How is this guy not town?
Seriously that's one post. Are you really going to base your vote off of 1 post?
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Well Zare, who does he give a scum read on?
Dieno- Everyone else had a scumread on Dieno (even I was suspicious of him), it could possibly be a bus.
Sylencia- A pretty easy scum read for everyone. He's kind of town now (unfortunately).
Me- Once again, not very hard a read to make due to my vote. However, since I'm not claiming scum, he is wrong.
It looks like a nice effort to scum hunt, but in reality it all looks like smoke and mirrors to me.
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On March 05 2013 01:35 zarepath wrote:
He's been suspicious of yamato ever since the end of Duel 1, is recently suspicious of me (Zarepath), keeps going back to check Snarfs' filter... he's given reads on a lot more people than you have, that's for sure.
He's also given reads that go like:
"Iamp is scum"
-30 minutes later-
"Fuck it, Iamp can't be scum"
"Thrawn is scum"
-30 minutes later-
"Fuck it, Thrawn can't be scum"
That is town oriented?
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On March 05 2013 01:41 zarepath wrote:
Look at Yamato's filter and tell me it's any different. Marv and Acro are the scummiest people yet, and then they end up with null reads. Just look at his Duel 1 voting, for crying out loud -- back and forth on Adam and Keirathi depending upon thread sentiment.
Calling someone into question and then deciding they're not scum isn't any kind of scum tell that I know of.
It's not what Hapa did that made it look scummy, it's how he did. He literally starts to pressure Thrawn and Iamp and then suddenly 180s on them based on 1 comment. That doesn't look scummy?
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Just taking another look through Zare's filter, and it's kind of obvious that his vote is really based on protecting Hapa rather than going after Yamato.
In his filter he mentions nothing about Yamato being scummy (only at one point that Yamato was his 5th highest scum read). He even makes a couple of posts where he think Yamato is "pro-town".
So if he had a null read on Yamato (which is safe to assume seeing that he never said anything otherwise), why would he vote for Yamato after only one readthrough of the thread. Even more suspiciously, why is Zare only calling out Yamato for his D1 actions when he is on the chopping block, instead of calling Yamato out when he switched votes on D1? It all reeks of hard-defending Hapa.
The likelihood of scum bussing each other again is very low because the scum are so low in numbers that they need to focus on staying alive as much as possible, so I'm pretty sure that Zare and Hapa are of the same alignment, whether they are town together or scum together.
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On March 05 2013 05:14 zarepath wrote:
I don't know how you can say that I mention nothing about Yamato being scummy when I explain it fairly thoroughly in my vote post, and then just re-quoted it for Yamato. In fact, YOU mentioned absolutely nothing about Hapa being scummy until this duel post. The absolute idiot in me can say "Therefore, Cora is only out to protect Yamato!" Or I can simply say, "Gee, maybe he had no reason to actually look at Hapa-scum until the Duel post where he only has two options."
I had not mentioned Hapa/Yamato before now because I was trying to get Syl lynched. Since it's obvious you need to read the thread again, I was on Yamato for a few hours before I switched over.
Unlike you, who has been AFK and just decided to jump in and vote for Yamato without applying much critical thinking and looking at ALL of the arguments, I took a look at both sides and I don't see Yamato's actions being as scummy as Hapa's have been.
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On March 05 2013 06:16 zarepath wrote:
Please explain to me which actions of Hapa are scummy enough to outweigh the fact that he was the first person to defend Adam and one of the first to vote for Keirathi, and then one of the first to push for a Dieno/Syl duel.
A scum realizing that he needed to bus his teammates a ridiculous amount in order to distance himself from their flips would do the same exact thing Hapa did.
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Fair enough Adam. That still doesn't explain his random 180s on Thrawn and Iamp, and the fact that all of the VTs have said that he is scum...
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On March 05 2013 08:18 Sylencia wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2013 00:29 cDgCorazon wrote:On March 05 2013 00:26 Sylencia wrote:On March 04 2013 23:52 cDgCorazon wrote:Alright, well I've come to my decision. It was a tough one, so I decided to take a look at all of the veteran TLers who have flipped VT this game and see their thoughts: On March 03 2013 12:48 thrawn2112 wrote:
d3: lynch yamato.
if yamato flips scum then do whatever the hell you want. if yamato turns out to be town I think hapa and acro should be flipped next. On February 26 2013 07:59 marvellosity wrote:
Ok, so I'm hoping deadline is about to happen. Here's what I think of people so far.
Probably town:
yamato - aggression, thread presence, decent reads, etc
People I'm a bit suspicious of:
Hapahauli - he's just done nothing to make me think he's town, and Hapa is very capable of coming across town. Like iamp mentions, defends himself too much instead of doing proactive things. *could* just be a bad start.
On February 28 2013 12:38 iamperfection wrote:On February 28 2013 12:29 Adam4167 wrote:
No, that is called being unavailable.
How the hell is not being here 24/7 mafia motivated? its calling having a life outside this forum. hapa is in the same time zone as me. Hapa knows that playing mafia is a commitment hapa knows proving your towniness is important hapa knows that activity and discussion are how you catch mafia He has shown no interest in those things top it off with his shit start that was all defense and no scum hunting and the simple explanation is that hapa is mafia. And the survey says... ##Vote: HapaAlso I cannot see any possible ways that Hapa's actions could be town-oriented. I could see Yamato's play being town a lot easier (still hard though) than Hapa's play. I don't have much to add to today's duel - the only point I can really add is that while you're using other opinions to decide your vote, can you really value marv's judgment as equal as others? He says it in his post himself - 'could be a bad start', seeing as how he was in the game for 24 hours where some people hadn't talked yet. Personally, I find Hapa's defense posts in day 3, his read on yamato during day 2 and yamato's duel-while-everyone-is-afk to really add up to a compelling argument for me to vote yam. On the other hand, considering day 1 and day 2 have resulted in a mafia lynching I don't see why yamato is actually just openly claiming that a lynch on him is ok to get more info. After reading the case on Hapa, I also find it to be rather weak - primarily the day 2 case on Hapa. The only compelling thing for me is the disappearance of Hapa during the later stages of that duel but I think the quotes provided don't make for a strong scum case against him. I'm going to be sleeping on this, but I don't honestly expect to be coming up with many miracle answers to this problem and in advance I'm going to apologize (primarily to Cora here) for being such a useless townie. On a side note, if we want to maximize our chances of winning, one of the next duels should result in a double lynch. (Town chooses kill today, Night Kill, Town, Town, Night, Town, Night, Town, Town) gives us 6 kills to choose from and 3 controlled by scum. This is different to Town, Night, Town, Night, Town, Night, Town, Town where we get 5 kills and they still get 3. tl;dr sometime during this duel or the next 2 duels, we have an extra spare lynch. This is assuming no vig/protection/thingswhichstop1NK. It's never too late to redeem yourself Syl. Who do you think is the last (hypothetical) scum assuming that Yamato and Hapa aren't bussing each other? Zare has a high chance at the moment no matter who gets chosen, but after thinking through it during the night it's quite possible that Yamato and Hapa are both town, which means there could still be another scum. If that's the case, the other thing I'm a bit suspicious about are how clear pro-town players who are providing a lot of insight in comparison to others didn't get killed instead of the ones who are dead. While thrawn was also an active player, his reads were definitely a lot more off in comparison to Acro/Adam.
Yay now we are getting somewhere Zare =)
Can I ask for a vote next?
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EBWOP: Lol I was thinking too much about Zare: I meant
"Yay now we are getting somewhere Syl =)"
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Does anyone else have this eerie feeling that we are lynching two townies and the two lurkers are not voting to maximize the damage to the town?
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On March 05 2013 12:23 Oatsmaster wrote:
Why does it matter Cora?
We are not going to double lynch. Probably.
Well it looks like the people who are going to vote aren't going to change their minds, and the other two have been constant lurkers. I'd say the chances of a double lynch are good.
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I really think Alderan should be in the next duel if he doesn't vote...
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It's obvious that you guys aren't going to change your votes. I don't understand why you are still standing here arguing about it...
Alderan in next lynch? Snarfs or Zare to join him based off of flip?
A couple of ideas I'm proposing to you all now.
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EPT
