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On February 23 2013 11:34 GMarshal wrote:Postgame analysis from me in a few days (i won't have reliable internet till monday) I still think scum could have won from this position, but oh well. A few blunders, quite a bit of smart play, and some interesting stuff to talk about. And a poll Poll: Host Nomination II?Yes (8) 100% No (0) 0% 8 total votes Your vote: Host Nomination II? (Vote): Yes
(Vote): No
(rebalanced obviously, probably the 9 player version)
Voted yes, assuming 9p. 
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On that note we need more Resistance games too. Maybe I host one of those shits.
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It wasn't worthy if you have to ask for it Cheese. -.-
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I have an opinion on this. Stay tuned.
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I would like to preface this post by saying that while GM assented and I agreed to it, the initiative for this exercise (as far as I know) lies entirely with Obvious. I didn't seek to gain any kind of advantage, and if I did it was entirely out of my control barring specifically asking Obvious not to talk about certain things, which I find to be counter-productive to what he was trying to achieve in the first place.
That probably goes without saying, but I wanted to say it anyway just because. And now that I've said it, I will say this.
I had an unfair advantage in this game due to Obvious' observations.
Not because I was picking his brain about things, but simply because Obvious had many observations about the gamestate. It's not his FAULT that I had an advantage, but because of the way I chose to disseminate the information I had to him over the course of the game, coupled with the fact that we both were so enthusiastic about the exercise, I was able to get a constant objective viewpoint on the gamestate. As slOosh keenly pointed out, this is useful information - not to an inexperienced scumplayer but to ANY scum player, or verily any player in general...because ultimately the game is supposed to be played objectively. But as scum I start the game with an informational advantage, and a persistent objective viewpoint is simply more powerful then a townie with presumably the same information his shadow would have.
For this reason, I opted to actively take steps to try and lessen his impact on my perception of the game - by slowly feeding him the names of my team over the course of the game. In this way, his viewpoint over the course of the game slowly skewed to a more scum-like information-advantaged viewpoint. For instance, I think he guessed Cheese first early based on the posts he demonstrated and I was so impressed by how he came to the conclusion that I told him he was right. I also told him about Snarfs, but not until Cheese was already swinging the wagon around. My goal was to try and lessen his impact (being his objective viewpoint) on my play by removing his objectivity, but giving him room to improve his play not just as scum, but the game in general.
I only say it was unfair because Obvious was so enthusiastic about the arrangement, which in turn caused me to be enthusiastic about it. I could tell he was excited to observe the gamestate and the prospect of improving his play immediately. Because I'm familiar with a few of my fellow players PM habits, I can say with confidence that the exercise of shadowing a player will vary from game to game and from player to mentor.
In general however, it is my opinion that if newer players think that they have something to gain by shadowing another player during a game, provided the host doesn't care and the player willing, I say go for it. I had a lot of fun with the exercise and I think Obvious took a lot away from it, which was the goal, and I'm happy to have had a part in it. I apologize if it seems unfair or whatever, but like I said - for my part I tried to lessen its impact on my play in my own way, so I feel it's cool.
I'm interested in others' opinion on this too though, because like I said, I think Obvious took a lot from it and for my part I think hosts should allow it in their games but also will respect hosts wishes who do not.
Also LOL slOosh was the one who called me out on it. <3
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And yeah, thx GM and BioSC. This was a lot of fun.
I wanted them to flip me green and then 10 minutes later flip me red with our concession. Would that not have been priceless?!
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Funny side note, Obvious while shadowing my scum game replaced into a concurrently running Newbie game as SK - that I was coaching the scum team of which Mocsta from this game was a part.
I was a little salty that Acro didn't have me coach Obvious too, all things considered...but yeah Mocsta kinda gave me a nod in this thread and if there had been observant townie newbies reading, he basically outted himself as scum in that game in this thread. DON'T TALK ABOUT ONGOING GAMES MOCSTA <3
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Because you were gleamingly green in your filter. I knew immediately I'd never successfully build a case on you without manipulating WIFOM.
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Thread sentiment is touchy. At the time you were a red read for people, Palmar was in the game and he might have called me out for having a faulty red read on you too...you simply hadn't posted anything scummy. And because of that early game, I had to remain consistent.
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That's all assuming of course that Palmar would think I'm scum for bad logic, and assuming he'd think that's lynch-worthy that early in the game from me as a player. I could be off-base there, but that's my reasoning.
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For what it's worth, I'm aware I played poorly and knew I was in trouble late-game. I wanted to be in Nominations sooner...and I had submitted a Nomination of VE Cheese slOosh D4 submitted. Cheese made me change it because he lacks vision.
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Wrap your brain around what that would have done to the game yamato.
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sigh
Soon people will listen when I say things on a scumteam. I really need to work on my ability to make fake cases.
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Like, I can look town to an extent - I can interact with people all day naturally and convincingly...but when it comes to faking scumhunting, I fail. I'm not sure why, I think it's because I don't know how to apply good logic poorly - all I know how to do is apply bad logic well, and that does fuck all for scum LOL
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Come to think of it, I'm a pretty poor case-maker as town too.
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I do that sometimes.
The blandness was an attempt at appearing thoughtful and stoic about the setup, which I tried to portray by speaking so much of the setup and fashing my posts about the setup with the most obvious care. It's subtle, but I'm a subtle player.
I've inserted what you call "insane" into other games. Remember my Clarity Vig Case in....what was that you were in it...that was a game I was scum in where I was like "Hmmm I need to look like town VE fast...I KNOW INSANE FUCKING PARANOID CASE ON VIG CLAIM!!!"
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I swore you were...anyway, yeah I do that intentionally sometimes. Lack of it this game was intentional.
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Because debears "had you dead to rights" or whatever. I wasn't really on at that time jay, once I realized I was cooked (after I wasn't nominated D4) my will to play was sapped drastically. I think you did pretty well, people call you out for bad things a lot of the time.
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EPT
