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On January 16 2013 11:00 wherebugsgo wrote:
nah, this is exactly what I would expect from scum slOosh.
I call you scum, vote you, and say that I will tunnel the fuck out of you unless you give reads. You see it, panic, and take lots of time to post a half-assed read of someone who you haven't mentioned all game, but happens to be one of my scumreads too, perhaps in the hope that you will get me to agree with you, drop you as a target, and lynch the other guy instead.
I think you're both scum, and that post was made as a calculated risk. Too bad your execution was shit. You die today. Hopeless dies tomorrow.
Ok I'll slowly visit WBG's posts to show the subtle moves he makes in each one, starting from the ones he made today. In fact, I think the reality is that WBG saw Hapa's case on hopeless and is using my mislynch as a diversion. He is straight out lying about calling hopeless a scumread.
On January 14 2013 10:55 wherebugsgo wrote:
On reread Hopeless doesn't seem that bad, just really lazy. I want him to actually do something though, or I may consider pushing him tomorrow, assuming I'm alive.
On January 15 2013 07:42 wherebugsgo wrote:
Also lol @ hopeless. sadly I can't tell whether you're scum trying to appear reasonable or whether you're simply town. Sigh.
On January 15 2013 11:19 wherebugsgo wrote:
anyway on a serious note:
the two who escaped lynch yesterday through that prom debacle were Lazer and Xatalos. I am more suspicious of Xatalos, considering that he wasn't around as much during lynch time. He just kinda slinked away, while Lazer at the very least was around and doing stuff. His only contributions really were asking slOosh why his opinion changed on him-very self-centric.
Hapa, thrawn, and slOosh I basically have auto-town reads on. I hope they don't turn into the sciberbias of this game. (I had an auto-town read on Prom too)
Xatalos (1): jaybrundage
Promethelax (7): slOosh, thrawn2112, grush57, MrZentor, Xatalos, Ruuch, Supersoft
Lazermonkey (1): Promethelax
Ruuch (4): Lazermonkey, wherebugsgo, Hapahauli, Hopeless1der
The bolded votes are shady. Ruuch avoided a modkill/replacement by voting right before the deadline. I think that's too close to consider that coincidence. We will have to kill him at some point and there's almost no way scum will shoot him, ever. I suppose we can push him off till later, but I know the game will come down to it at some point.
Jay, don't waste your vote tomorrow if you are town. If I die tonight and jay gets away without contributing much, please someone tunnel the fuck out of him.
Secondly, the late votes on Prom: Ruuch's is the worst. Xatalos's is also pretty bad, considering that I never actually felt that he cared about the lynch. His argument was that he preferred Prom over Lazer. Whatever. Zentor and Grush are basically either trolls or scum, and grush's contributions this game err on the side of scum for me.
In addition to all of these players we have Hopeless, who seems to be feigning reasonability to live. He doesn't seem to be very interested in finding scum, either.
So, we have at least 4-5 players who I would confidently label "antitown" and not all of them can be scum. Wonderful.
Seems like preferential treatment of hopeless. Why does he get a bye when everyone else doesn't? What the crap does the first post mean? "I want this guy to do something, or I'll push him. Tomorrow. After I might die". Do you think WBG is a guy who tolerates crappy play? Then why let hopeless get away with it?
WBG is incredibly on the fence with so many people without actually seeming to be wishy washy. He could call anyone a town read and find reason to reverse it, me being a great example. Tricky right? He is misinterpreting the situation.
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On January 16 2013 11:46 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 10:58 slOosh wrote:
Might as well come out with it all.
I planned on testing out my read of WBG by presenting my read on hopeless. I think hopeless is scum, and wanted to push him today and gauge WBG's reactions accordingly, especially since it seemed WBG was showing, what I perceive as, some unwarranted leniency to hopeless. Of course this is something characterized under tone, feel etc. which is why I wanted to see his response to better gauge it.
I will now field any and all questions. what did you expect his reactions to be with each alignment?
If he was town he would express agreement / disagreement, particularly to Hapa's case as well. If not he would figure out a way to divert the lynch, because it would be stupid to let one of his buddies get the noose without a fight.
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On January 16 2013 09:53 wherebugsgo wrote:
auto townread = I almost didn't bother carefully reading their posts.
One thing I kept in my head about slOosh was that he had two pushes, Prom and Xatalos. He dropped Xatalos rather quickly and outside of those two players he has had no comments on anything. His push on Prom was also pretty bad.
There has to be a reason super died. Super was the only person who had a public scumread on slOosh. Outside of that he called Lazer scum and he called Zentor scum.
I think slOosh needs to do something though, because if you haven't noticed, he's been laying a bit lower than what I'd feel if he were town.
This is scummy too and you have to read carefully so he doesn't pull a fast one on you.
The first sentence says my push on Prom was pretty bad. Well if it was really clear that Prom was town, why didn't he care that he was being lynched? Why did he put no effort in taking people off the mislynch? In fact, MrZentor accused him from defending Prom, and WBG retorted with confidence he had never called Prom town.
On January 15 2013 07:26 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 15 2013 07:24 MrZentor wrote:
Hey WBG, you talked about nobody being worthy enough to be defended by you, but you've been defending Prom pretty hard all game.
Can you explain? given that you haven't read the thread, this is a pretty empty accusation. Find an instance where I called Prom town. I can guarantee you that you will not find it even without going back into my filter. The only two players that I have really defended this game (if you can even call it that) are jay and super.
On January 15 2013 08:38 wherebugsgo wrote:
Why does prom not care about getting lynched?
This whole thing bothers me
No where does he ever explain his town read on Prom, nor did he indicate that he had one. But he wants to pin this mislynch on me, even though he did nothing at the time when it was happening.
The second sentence is total WIFOM. Only scum know why they shot super, and an equally plausible explanation is that scum shot super in order to push a slOosh mislynch. It is a terrible reason to lynch someone as scum can use it for that exact reason.
No actual reasons for lynching me.
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I was taking time off thread to reread carefully given the flip, and didn't have much confidence in my reads to see them worth dumping. I've had some hesitation in straight up building a case against scum WBG, given his reputation, and wanted to do the hopeless thing beforehand. With how I'm approaching my WBG case, do you disagree with my interpretation of things? Do you agree with his interpretation of things?
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On January 16 2013 12:07 wherebugsgo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 12:05 slOosh wrote:On January 16 2013 09:53 wherebugsgo wrote:
auto townread = I almost didn't bother carefully reading their posts.
One thing I kept in my head about slOosh was that he had two pushes, Prom and Xatalos. He dropped Xatalos rather quickly and outside of those two players he has had no comments on anything. His push on Prom was also pretty bad.
There has to be a reason super died. Super was the only person who had a public scumread on slOosh. Outside of that he called Lazer scum and he called Zentor scum.
I think slOosh needs to do something though, because if you haven't noticed, he's been laying a bit lower than what I'd feel if he were town. This is scummy too and you have to read carefully so he doesn't pull a fast one on you. The first sentence says my push on Prom was pretty bad. Well if it was really clear that Prom was town, why didn't he care that he was being lynched? Why did he put no effort in taking people off the mislynch? In fact, MrZentor accused him from defending Prom, and WBG retorted with confidence he had never called Prom town. On January 15 2013 07:26 wherebugsgo wrote:On January 15 2013 07:24 MrZentor wrote:
Hey WBG, you talked about nobody being worthy enough to be defended by you, but you've been defending Prom pretty hard all game.
Can you explain? given that you haven't read the thread, this is a pretty empty accusation. Find an instance where I called Prom town. I can guarantee you that you will not find it even without going back into my filter. The only two players that I have really defended this game (if you can even call it that) are jay and super. On January 15 2013 08:38 wherebugsgo wrote:
Why does prom not care about getting lynched?
This whole thing bothers me No where does he ever explain his town read on Prom, nor did he indicate that he had one. But he wants to pin this mislynch on me, even though he did nothing at the time when it was happening. The second sentence is total WIFOM. Only scum know why they shot super, and an equally plausible explanation is that scum shot super in order to push a slOosh mislynch. It is a terrible reason to lynch someone as scum can use it for that exact reason. No actual reasons for lynching me. your push on Prom WAS bad. I left Prom alone because I wanted him to defend himself. I even said myself that I didn't plan on defending anyone. That's why I said it was bothersome that Prom wasn't defending himself. I found it strange in light of the fact that I had a town read of him-it made my confidence waver. The whole Zentor crap was simply me stopping him from misrepresenting my play. If I wanted to defend Prom I would have, but I wanted to see his response to the case, and I wanted to see what others would do without me stepping in.
Why was my push on Prom bad, and how is that equivalent to scummy?
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On January 16 2013 12:27 iamperfection wrote:
As for other scum reads sloosh hasn't really done anything this game and i dont really buy that he was going to push hopeless just to figure wbg seems like a flawed process to me.
I was going to push hopeless because he was my scum read, and the push itself was designed to give me a read on WBG. I wasn't pushing hopeless for the sole reason to get a reaction from WBG, it was an additional reason.
On January 16 2013 12:30 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 12:16 slOosh wrote:
I was taking time off thread to reread carefully given the flip, and didn't have much confidence in my reads to see them worth dumping. I've had some hesitation in straight up building a case against scum WBG, given his reputation, and wanted to do the hopeless thing beforehand. With how I'm approaching my WBG case, do you disagree with my interpretation of things? Do you agree with his interpretation of things? Your WBG suspicions are predicated on the following: 1) WBG is wishy-washy. I agree with this, but is WBG wishy-washy as scum? I always took him as a very aggressive character in his scum-games. 2) WBG's attitude on Hopeless is scummy. However, making associations is absurd before Hopeless actually flips. What I'm most concerned with though is your sudden burst of "WBG is scum, here are all the reasons why!" You had all night to push him and question him, yet you did not do so. Instead, the second WBG votes you, you start flinging posts left and right about how he's your top scumread and how he's so scummy. The timing of all of this is incredibly convenient.
Because my suspicions were on supersoft but his flip changed my reads around.
1) If being wishy washy let's him play to push scum agenda, why not? Just because you perceive that he may have a "preferred playstyle" doesn't mean he is limited to playing to it, would it?
2) His attitude on Hopeless is scummy regardless of Hopeless' alignment because as town you don't give certain players preferential treatment just for kicks, and for someone who doesn't tolerate bad play as much as WBG it is especially out of character. There is more scum motivation for treating someone special than there is town.
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On January 16 2013 12:18 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 12:07 wherebugsgo wrote:On January 16 2013 12:05 slOosh wrote:On January 16 2013 09:53 wherebugsgo wrote:
auto townread = I almost didn't bother carefully reading their posts.
One thing I kept in my head about slOosh was that he had two pushes, Prom and Xatalos. He dropped Xatalos rather quickly and outside of those two players he has had no comments on anything. His push on Prom was also pretty bad.
There has to be a reason super died. Super was the only person who had a public scumread on slOosh. Outside of that he called Lazer scum and he called Zentor scum.
I think slOosh needs to do something though, because if you haven't noticed, he's been laying a bit lower than what I'd feel if he were town. This is scummy too and you have to read carefully so he doesn't pull a fast one on you. The first sentence says my push on Prom was pretty bad. Well if it was really clear that Prom was town, why didn't he care that he was being lynched? Why did he put no effort in taking people off the mislynch? In fact, MrZentor accused him from defending Prom, and WBG retorted with confidence he had never called Prom town. On January 15 2013 07:26 wherebugsgo wrote:On January 15 2013 07:24 MrZentor wrote:
Hey WBG, you talked about nobody being worthy enough to be defended by you, but you've been defending Prom pretty hard all game.
Can you explain? given that you haven't read the thread, this is a pretty empty accusation. Find an instance where I called Prom town. I can guarantee you that you will not find it even without going back into my filter. The only two players that I have really defended this game (if you can even call it that) are jay and super. On January 15 2013 08:38 wherebugsgo wrote:
Why does prom not care about getting lynched?
This whole thing bothers me No where does he ever explain his town read on Prom, nor did he indicate that he had one. But he wants to pin this mislynch on me, even though he did nothing at the time when it was happening. The second sentence is total WIFOM. Only scum know why they shot super, and an equally plausible explanation is that scum shot super in order to push a slOosh mislynch. It is a terrible reason to lynch someone as scum can use it for that exact reason. No actual reasons for lynching me. your push on Prom WAS bad. I left Prom alone because I wanted him to defend himself. I even said myself that I didn't plan on defending anyone. That's why I said it was bothersome that Prom wasn't defending himself. I found it strange in light of the fact that I had a town read of him-it made my confidence waver. The whole Zentor crap was simply me stopping him from misrepresenting my play. If I wanted to defend Prom I would have, but I wanted to see his response to the case, and I wanted to see what others would do without me stepping in. Why was my push on Prom bad, and how is that equivalent to scummy?
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The vote thing is an alignment null point, something a town WBG would totally be keen on. By this point whenever I place my vote WBG is gonna misconstrue it as "this is what scum slOosh would do". I never even intended to push him this cycle, so he is trying to goad me into doing it, taking the pressure off hopeless.
In fact, if he agrees that hopeless is scum, as do Hapa, iamp, then there is no reason to give hopeless another cycle to survive. There is no reason to lynch me today, lynch hopeless next cycle. More preferential treatment. WBG, put your money where your mouth is. If I'm obviously scum, then surely you can convince town that I'm scum later right?
##Vote: hopeless1der
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On January 16 2013 12:53 Hapahauli wrote:
Welp. This is a lot to digest right now. I'll have to sleep on this some and see what I come up with tomorrow.
Between Hopeless and WBG, who do you think is more likely to flip scum?
I think lynching hopeless today is the correct play as four of us (Hapa slOosh WBG and iamp) have good scum reads on him.
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Or is scum forced to bus a buddy (whether you think its me or WBG)
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On January 16 2013 17:28 jaybrundage wrote:
Sloosh looks like scum to me. He makes a a case on Hopeless1der.
But its mostly just a test case to see if WBG is scummy. When WBG starts putting pressure on him he OMGUS's but ends up backing off and saying lets just lynch Hopeless1der instead.
I agree that Hopeless hasn't contributed much at all this game and that he does look scummy. But the fact that Sloosh wants to vote for hopeless seems really suspect to me. Why would scum vote for there partner when there are other lynch candidates today. He could of picked out of alot of different people like grush lazer. It doesn't make any sense that he would pick someone that would be his partner.
It feels like Sloosh is taking the easy way out. He didnt feel confident to try to lych town WBG so he backs off and decided to go for Hopeless again.
##Vote SloOsh
On January 16 2013 12:47 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 12:27 iamperfection wrote:
As for other scum reads sloosh hasn't really done anything this game and i dont really buy that he was going to push hopeless just to figure wbg seems like a flawed process to me.
I was going to push hopeless because he was my scum read, and the push itself was designed to give me a read on WBG. I wasn't pushing hopeless for the sole reason to get a reaction from WBG, it was an additional reason.
On January 16 2013 12:16 slOosh wrote:
I was taking time off thread to reread carefully given the flip, and didn't have much confidence in my reads to see them worth dumping. I've had some hesitation in straight up building a case against scum WBG, given his reputation, and wanted to do the hopeless thing beforehand. With how I'm approaching my WBG case, do you disagree with my interpretation of things? Do you agree with his interpretation of things?
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On January 16 2013 12:18 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 16 2013 12:07 wherebugsgo wrote:On January 16 2013 12:05 slOosh wrote:On January 16 2013 09:53 wherebugsgo wrote:
auto townread = I almost didn't bother carefully reading their posts.
One thing I kept in my head about slOosh was that he had two pushes, Prom and Xatalos. He dropped Xatalos rather quickly and outside of those two players he has had no comments on anything. His push on Prom was also pretty bad.
There has to be a reason super died. Super was the only person who had a public scumread on slOosh. Outside of that he called Lazer scum and he called Zentor scum.
I think slOosh needs to do something though, because if you haven't noticed, he's been laying a bit lower than what I'd feel if he were town. This is scummy too and you have to read carefully so he doesn't pull a fast one on you. The first sentence says my push on Prom was pretty bad. Well if it was really clear that Prom was town, why didn't he care that he was being lynched? Why did he put no effort in taking people off the mislynch? In fact, MrZentor accused him from defending Prom, and WBG retorted with confidence he had never called Prom town. On January 15 2013 07:26 wherebugsgo wrote:On January 15 2013 07:24 MrZentor wrote:
Hey WBG, you talked about nobody being worthy enough to be defended by you, but you've been defending Prom pretty hard all game.
Can you explain? given that you haven't read the thread, this is a pretty empty accusation. Find an instance where I called Prom town. I can guarantee you that you will not find it even without going back into my filter. The only two players that I have really defended this game (if you can even call it that) are jay and super. On January 15 2013 08:38 wherebugsgo wrote:
Why does prom not care about getting lynched?
This whole thing bothers me No where does he ever explain his town read on Prom, nor did he indicate that he had one. But he wants to pin this mislynch on me, even though he did nothing at the time when it was happening. The second sentence is total WIFOM. Only scum know why they shot super, and an equally plausible explanation is that scum shot super in order to push a slOosh mislynch. It is a terrible reason to lynch someone as scum can use it for that exact reason. No actual reasons for lynching me. your push on Prom WAS bad. I left Prom alone because I wanted him to defend himself. I even said myself that I didn't plan on defending anyone. That's why I said it was bothersome that Prom wasn't defending himself. I found it strange in light of the fact that I had a town read of him-it made my confidence waver. The whole Zentor crap was simply me stopping him from misrepresenting my play. If I wanted to defend Prom I would have, but I wanted to see his response to the case, and I wanted to see what others would do without me stepping in. Why was my push on Prom bad, and how is that equivalent to scummy?
Notice WBG still hasn't addressed this.
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On January 17 2013 01:21 Hopeless1der wrote:
Bugs' vote was on Zentor, until Ruuch showed his face. Bugs didn't do much to stop the Prom lynch, other than trying to get Ruuch at the last minute. This move puts him under suspicion, same as Hapa, but based on the night conversations, I believe only 1 of SlOosh and wbg are scum. I'm not discounting the possibility that both sloosh and wbg are scum, but it seems far less likely, and I think sloosh is more suspicious (/sheep bugs).
How?
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Three scum? Where does it say that?
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On January 17 2013 04:38 Hapahauli wrote:It's a C9++ setup. There are almost always 3 scum in C9++ Have you ever seen a 13 player game with a number other than 3 scum?
Yea my first game ever, hosted by Qatol and dreamflower.
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My point is that trying to figure out the whole scum team when we don't even have concrete OP information on the number of scum is a futile exercise, of which more harm will come than good.
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On January 17 2013 04:45 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 04:44 Hapahauli wrote:On January 17 2013 04:40 slOosh wrote:On January 17 2013 04:38 Hapahauli wrote:On January 17 2013 04:33 slOosh wrote:
Three scum? Where does it say that? It's a C9++ setup. There are almost always 3 scum in C9++ Have you ever seen a 13 player game with a number other than 3 scum? Yea my first game ever, hosted by Qatol and dreamflower. Seriously? Geez that's imbalanced as fuck. Less town roles
It was 9v4, more town roles.
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On January 17 2013 04:51 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 04:47 slOosh wrote:
My point is that trying to figure out the whole scum team when we don't even have concrete OP information on the number of scum is a futile exercise, of which more harm will come than good. Oh I thought you were subtly implying people who are assuming 3 scum are scum.
It's a reasonable enough assumption that town could make, but not definite enough to be making team guesses, either through interactions that haven't flipped or process of elimination of town reads (if there are 4 scum and you assume 3, then one gets excused as "most town of them"), and it justs spread more suspicions / distractions, even though today's lynch hasn't been properly consolidated.
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On January 17 2013 05:18 jaybrundage wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 05:09 wherebugsgo wrote:
slOosh's argument is "let's not try to figure out the whole scumteam at once, since we don't know whether there are 3 or 4 scum in this game."
Instead, let's do what slOosh is doing: let's sow doubt, not actually scumhunt, and come back into the thread every few hours to whine about something minor/irrelevant. So lets lynch SlOosh then he seems more likely to be scum then hopeless. Also it doesn't make sense for him to try to push hopeless if they are indeed scum. He could of easily put a vote on Lazermonkey instead for instance. Sloosh has been wishy washy and hesitant to push his scum reads. The reasoning being that as scum he doesnt want to straight up push WBG unless he can get some support for it. He completly backs down from it. Also Grush where the hell have you been. You have been lurky and scummy all game. You never posted reasons for your vote. And you show a disinterest in helping town. I would also be willing to lynch grush today over hopeless. It seemed that he dropped of peoples radar.
How is that a scummy thing, if I think hopeless has a better chance of flipping scum than him?
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On January 17 2013 08:40 iamperfection wrote:
and can someone talk to me in a back in forth basis i find easier to figure things out if some is here with me actively talking about the game asking me questions and what not.
Ill be back in an hour.
I'll talk. What makes me scum, and what makes me a better choice than hopeless?
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EPT
