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Witchcraft Mini Mafia

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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1 2 3 Next All
DoYouHas
Profile Joined November 2008
United States1140 Posts
December 09 2012 07:37 GMT
#19
/in
Guts? Determination? $5?
DoYouHas
Profile Joined November 2008
United States1140 Posts
December 11 2012 01:06 GMT
#130
/out

I don't think I have time to play this properly, sorry.
Guts? Determination? $5?
DoYouHas
Profile Joined November 2008
United States1140 Posts
December 14 2012 22:12 GMT
#254
Hi everybody, looks like I am playing in this after all.

I haven't paid much attention to the thread since I /out, so I need to go over the setup again.

MrZ, I really hope you are less enigmatic than you were in paranoia. Your lack of explanation for your actions was annoying, but it didn't matter since you were clearly discussing with BH and you were town.
Guts? Determination? $5?
DoYouHas
Profile Joined November 2008
United States1140 Posts
December 14 2012 22:49 GMT
#260
The setup is actually pretty straightforward. The only thing I think needs to be mentioned is that we really need to avoid giving out town reads. It is generally a bad idea to post town reads. But even more than that, town reads could point scum towards blues. Just don't do it.
On December 15 2012 06:21 Hapahauli wrote:
FIRST! (jkjk)

I'm going to have to make some larger policy-post regarding game mechanics in a bit. But how y'all doing?

I'm interested in this. What policies are you looking to advocate? aside from the one I just mentioned above, I didn't see any kind of setup specific policies that make sense.
Guts? Determination? $5?
DoYouHas
Profile Joined November 2008
United States1140 Posts
December 15 2012 08:14 GMT
#424
JX's post is the scummiest thing in the thread so far, followed by kush's vote on Djo with weak, arbitrary reasoning.

##Vote JieXian



@Hapa/DP/Thrawn/Draz - You all went after Djo for his post saying we shouldn't share townreads. This concerns me because I made a very similar post before his and caught absolutely no flak for it. Even putting aside that he is right that sharing town reads is a bad idea with few exceptions (see below), this means that you all treated the same policy stance in 2 different ways. Did you overlook that I had taken the same stance? Or were you just looking for another reason to go after Djo?



Exceptions

1. Someone you have a townread on is getting votes/going to be lynched.
2. You have sufficiently narrowed down the possible scum with strong town reads.
3. Your townread is a supporting assumption to your scum read that you are pushing.

There are good reasons to share town reads, but there aren't many, and you can absolutely scumhunt without sharing them outside these exceptions. Most people do.
Guts? Determination? $5?
DoYouHas
Profile Joined November 2008
United States1140 Posts
December 15 2012 08:54 GMT
#428
On December 15 2012 17:37 DarthPunk wrote:
this is fucking stupid. The mafia know who to shoot into already. They know who the townies are. They have an information advantage that they wish to maintain for as long as possible.

Town wishes to nullify that information advantage as fast as possible. One of the most effective ways of doing that is by being proactive and sharing town reads.

I will be free and open with my town reads. I will be electing bad townies however. If I had a town read on HAPA he would never be elected for example.


You are being dumb. The mafia know who the townies are, they do not know who will be receiving votes. Townreads give information to scum that they didn't have, period. Knowing who townies are and knowing who townies think are townie are 2 very separate things.

This isn't about playing in fear of the witch hunter, this is about playing smart. Giving mafia information is not smart.

This is the second time you have made this kind of statement. It is as if you are treating the mafia kp and the witchhunter as the same thing. You are addressing the mafia kp, when the witch hunter is the issue. So what if you manage to elect bad townies if the mafia just shoot the good townies and silver shoot the bad ones. The point is this, we can maximize the possibility that the witch hunter misses by denying scum information that we really don't need to share anyways.

Maybe we are thinking about different examples of 'free and open with town reads'. I'm thinking of lists of townies being posted like Xatalos did in paranoia, which was bad.
Guts? Determination? $5?
DoYouHas
Profile Joined November 2008
United States1140 Posts
December 15 2012 09:10 GMT
#429
I really need to get to bed, gnight.
Guts? Determination? $5?
DoYouHas
Profile Joined November 2008
United States1140 Posts
December 15 2012 22:32 GMT
#480
@DP - I think the optimal way to play is to do our best to get the witch hunter to miss. Losing 2 townies, good or bad, is always worse than losing 1. I don't think this is going to convince you, so I'm not going to bring it up again.



I'm feeling more comfortable with my vote on JX right now.

His initial post was rather scummy, the thing to note about it is that it looks constructed (the phrases used when talking about hapa and MrZ, "mindless babbling" & "relative non-chalance". What makes me think he is scum is the progression of his pushing MrZ.

A behavior read.
On December 15 2012 14:47 JieXian wrote:
Hi and sorry I'm late, I'm at +8GMT and I didn't wake up as early as DarthPunk

At first I was really confused (scummy read) about hapa's mindless babbling about 13-3, which ISN'T RELEVANT to anything at all because you can't change anything except stir the discussion towards the wrong direction.

Later I got a stronger read from DP from his ridiculous "pressuring" above all for a point that's completely moot

Show nested quote +
Djo why did you vote for Mr Zentor


But above all there's Mr Zentor's relative non-chalance to everything seems to trump everything else as doesn't seem to give a damn to anything as townies are well on their way to lynching one another

##Vote MrZentor

An unsupported meta read with some WIFOM.
On December 16 2012 01:06 JieXian wrote:
I was out the whole day man relax. You guys didn't understand my post.

I found what Dp and hapa was saying to be weird BUT I changed my mind as I kept on reading the thread (notice how those 2 points were quite early on)

Based on MrZentor's "uselessness" as you guys termed it, my meta read on him shows that he's acting differently but most of all, if he were scum, he'd have nothing else to do but sit and watch because dp and hapa were in the spotlight and not take any blame.

Meaning he doesn't need to participate and make/risk any reads. I mean take a look at everyone else that's posting, they are all reads (be it weak or strong or sheep reads)

Finally providing support for his meta read. Not conclusive enough considering he is ignoring paranoia (MrZ's most recent town game).
On December 16 2012 01:23 JieXian wrote:
tell me how zentor's behavior isn't weird as compared to 2 of his other town games

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341663&user=137099
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=363625&user=137099

0 reads 0 risks this game, because town has been going the wrong way, because he doesn't need to.


This reads like he is trying to justify his stance on MrZ after the fact. Instead of finding MrZ scummy and looking into him, the presenting good reasons to vote him, JX voted him, then went in search of the reasons when pressured. This strikes me as scummy.

I already pointed out how his first post feels constructed, and if that is true and he spent time on that post, why didn't he spend time backing up his vote on MrZ right from the start?


Guts? Determination? $5?
DoYouHas
Profile Joined November 2008
United States1140 Posts
December 16 2012 20:08 GMT
#708
I agree with DP and MrZ on JieXian.

JX's response to being under threat of certain lynch is not what I would have expected from scum. He didn't over react, he pushed his read on MrZ consistantly. And recently he has given advice to another player, called out hapa and thrawn for being quiet, and revamped his defense to not just justify his own posts, but actually put pressure back on his attackers. These are not the actions of a scum who 'slipped' so badly with his first post.

Also, look at his past filters.
Scum NMMXVIII - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=345447&user=39438
Town NMMXX - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349066&user=39438

I looked these over, and his play this game looks more like his town game than his scum game. They are both Newbie games and there are only two, so it isn't huge evidence, but it is good supporting evidence.

##Unvote JieXian


Trying to decide the more likely scum between threesr and morbid atm.

Guts? Determination? $5?
DoYouHas
Profile Joined November 2008
United States1140 Posts
December 16 2012 20:22 GMT
#721
I agree with MrZ's reasoning on mord, and while threesr's play is terrible, I can see it from both sides.

##Vote Mordbidius
Guts? Determination? $5?
DoYouHas
Profile Joined November 2008
United States1140 Posts
December 17 2012 01:50 GMT
#917
@Eywa - If you were to manage to get Hapa lynched tomorrow, who would be your next lynch choice given what you know now? Why?
Guts? Determination? $5?
DoYouHas
Profile Joined November 2008
United States1140 Posts
December 17 2012 02:08 GMT
#935
@Eywa - What are your reasons for thinking MrCc is scum? I don't see them in your filter.
Guts? Determination? $5?
DoYouHas
Profile Joined November 2008
United States1140 Posts
December 17 2012 02:29 GMT
#956
Yeah... Eywa is scum. I was entertaining the possibility of the 'too bad to be scum' cliche. But the way he is biting back at anyone who questions him (even when it isn't about hapa) just doesn't fit with that. It fits with scum that has just full committed to attacking.

I'm still interested in this promised case on MrCc.
Guts? Determination? $5?
DoYouHas
Profile Joined November 2008
United States1140 Posts
December 17 2012 02:31 GMT
#959
On December 17 2012 11:29 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Hapa, Eywa is totes always right about everything. Shouldn't we listen to him?


You had better hope we are right about Eywa, because if we aren't you look exactly like a gloating scum who is buddying hapa.
Guts? Determination? $5?
DoYouHas
Profile Joined November 2008
United States1140 Posts
December 17 2012 21:00 GMT
#1191
    1. Eywa is scum.
    2. JX is town.
    3. Hapa is town.
    4. MrZ is SCUM




1.
I've been ignoring everyone's 'scumslips' this game. I don't think they are a reliable way of catching scum.
Early on when Eywa was actually giving reasons for why Hapa was scum he repeatedly misrepresented what Hapa had done. But what really makes me think Eywa is scum is his repeated responses that push responsibility for proving that he is right on other people and the way he doesn't have anything else to talk about. The former tends to follow, "if you actually read the thread, you would have no choice but to agree with me". The later was what I was searching for when I asked him for his second scumread.



2.
My original reasons for unvoting JX (click) still hold true.
Secondly, I don't think it is possible for a noob scum (which JX would be) to jump in front of the most active influential townie with Eywa in hopes that both of them tunneling Hapa instead of just 1 would actually convince people. It just doesn't make sense for a scum to take up the stance that JX has, risking 2/3 of the scumteam to try and overthrow hapa. It makes much more sense that he is a tunneling townie.



3.
Hapa was the reason that this town wasn't a quagmire day1. He has pushed people, gotten people to post, and actively sought information. He is town.



4.
I was null on MrZ until his recent push for revealing votes on Hapa. His strange play and follow up reasoning for why it couldn't be scum play was null simply because he showed that he has been trying to post in such a way that doesn't make sense for scum.

HOWEVER, really think through the option MrZ has presented about revealing votes. Hapa was one of the most townie looking people going into N1. But DP was also townie looking AND DP was espousing putting votes onto 'bad townies' in order to split up the damage of successful witchhunter shots and nightkills. MrZ wants everyone to ignore that the same people that trusted DP enough to vote him could also have trusted him enough to follow his lead in how to vote.

MrZ wants us to believe that DP could only have been after a town Hapa would have gotten shot. With DP's voting philosophy floating about, there is no way to know how many people bought into it and didn't vote for the obvious choice, hapa.

So what is a good way to cover your bases? Do exactly what MrZ did. Shoot DP, then probe the rest of the town with this bogus reasoning in order to see if Hapa actually did end up blue or not. The way he did it even makes it possible for him to not get instalynched if hapa gets shot.

If MrZ wanted to actually confirm his suspicion without risking a potential active and productive townie, he would have waited for N3 to bring this up.

I will be voting MrZ after Eywa.
Guts? Determination? $5?
DoYouHas
Profile Joined November 2008
United States1140 Posts
December 17 2012 22:11 GMT
#1232
##Vote MrZentor

I'm around for the next hour or so.
Guts? Determination? $5?
DoYouHas
Profile Joined November 2008
United States1140 Posts
December 17 2012 22:24 GMT
#1253
Now Eywa and MrZ are trying to drown out a frustrated hapa.

Hapa, read my case on MrZ and let's lynch him. I can't support you on a JX lynch.
Guts? Determination? $5?
DoYouHas
Profile Joined November 2008
United States1140 Posts
December 17 2012 22:28 GMT
#1258
On December 18 2012 07:27 Eywa- wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 18 2012 07:24 DoYouHas wrote:
Now Eywa and MrZ are trying to drown out a frustrated hapa.

Hapa, read my case on MrZ and let's lynch him. I can't support you on a JX lynch.

Hapa is scum, not sure why you'd ever side with him. Proven on many occasions where he slips up and lies then throws out half assed excuses.


Hapa is actually productive, all you have done is flung shit at him.
Guts? Determination? $5?
DoYouHas
Profile Joined November 2008
United States1140 Posts
December 17 2012 22:32 GMT
#1263
On December 18 2012 07:26 MrZentor wrote:
DYH, your case is bad.

Scum would have tried to shoot Hapa before DP.

And your whole case is based on that not being true.


Wrong, your case is based on that assumption being true, mine is not. My case is based on you pushing a strategy that would reveal whether hapa is blue or not when he is still potentially in danger of being silver shot. My case is based on acknowledging that you don't know exactly how scum are operating, which you clearly don't, because you want to lynch hapa.
Guts? Determination? $5?
DoYouHas
Profile Joined November 2008
United States1140 Posts
December 17 2012 22:39 GMT
#1272
If MrZ was town he would have to at least acknowledge that his assumptions might be wrong. And if that possibility exists, then his actions only have a scum mindset. Any town making his assumptions could just as easily test them when hapa was out of danger. They would be no less convincing, even if we will be missing 2 more votes now.

MrZ was rolefishing, plain and simple.
Guts? Determination? $5?
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