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On December 08 2012 23:26 Arnarnion wrote:
Guys, I'm really sorry about my absence from the thread, I'm in exam and essay crunch time right now and so my mind has been a bit preoccupied. At the same time, I've recently having pretty unpleasant computer issues which mainly involve it shutting down entirely at random points.
But enough of my excuses, I'm going to look through the thread right now, but is there any current topics of controversy that you guys would like me to address?
Are you here?
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In red so you don't miss it.
As you have observed Rad sometimes real Life gets in the way. I will be going out soon for the evening.
I see other people think it is interesting too.
next time I get chance i will check the thread and see if there some logical reasoning i have missed.
I really dont think so.
I will however happily read any coherent argument you can discuss with anyone that wants to talk to you.
One reason those things happen is because they do.
Thos were my thoughts at that time.
Right now if there is some here chatting would be helpful.
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3 interesting things happened.
Like most things they, have multiple interpretations but because they are all on related topics comapring them carefully is good.
Firstly, but i will come back to that.
+ Show Spoiler +On December 08 2012 19:24 Kickstart wrote:
Well I am off to bed, should be back before lynch time (though I am prone to sleeping for excessively long periods of time). I do hope to see more from especially arnarnion and jidolboy when I wake, though almost everyone (maybe not Axle or myself :D) could stand to post a bit more.
Secondly, arnion does some actual scum hunting.
+ Show Spoiler +On December 08 2012 19:35 Sylencia wrote:
##unvote
##vote jidolboy
Doing this to show who I suspect, still seems suspicious as hell to me, Arn just looks like he is afk.
Lastly Arnarnion makes a claim about what he is going to do then does not do it.
That is a larger claim
+ Show Spoiler +On December 08 2012 23:26 Arnarnion wrote:
Guys, I'm really sorry about my absence from the thread, I'm in exam and essay crunch time right now and so my mind has been a bit preoccupied. At the same time, I've recently having pretty unpleasant computer issues which mainly involve it shutting down entirely at random points.
But enough of my excuses, I'm going to look through the thread right now, but is there any current topics of controversy that you guys would like me to address?
That is a relatively expensive thing to do. It is either bad play or he knows he has some credibility to spend.
Arnion thinks a Town should go look at the thread.
=========
At most Only one of the three posters is scum.
The odd one out came first.
The second one came second and cast a different interpretation on what should be done cheaply.
Arnion who goes last emphasizes his claim, making it expensive to do casts the deciding vote for me.
Conclusion: The first advice which was given both to himself and me is wrong.
Why he did that is again up to you to fathom.
It produced the right result, was it slip or an expensive attempt then endorsed by the others
it is also in my opinion wrong, you need to form your own conclusions by examining what I saw.
It also makes sense to me that I need to do things Now. As indicated I dont go well when its going fast.
If there is an error in what I have done, and i got lynched but we are not then certain of the win, I need to
do what i can now to make that happen.
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EBWOP KickStart in this post
+ Show Spoiler +On December 08 2012 19:24 Kickstart wrote:
Well I am off to bed, should be back before lynch time (though I am prone to sleeping for excessively long periods of time). I do hope to see more from especially arnarnion and jidolboy when I wake, though almost everyone (maybe not Axle or myself :D) could stand to post a bit more.
Advice that is wrong for at least one of us, because now only one can be scum.
It also, provides an excuse for an arbitrarily long absence.
fos KickStart
Earlier http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17159067 when I started flopping around
KickStart Said This
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17159150
Not voting and not actively looking for scum does not help town.
but now for some reason
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17173145
though almost everyone (maybe not Axle or myself :D) could stand to post a bit more.
Whats stranger is this time, it is only post a bit more and not hunt for scum.
FOS KickStart
Hey KickStart are you there?
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Secondly, arnion does some actual scum hunting.
by actual I mean casts a vote
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This bit is the literal truth. I have a really weird scum hunting technique. It is called taking nap, I literally just woke up seeing the text of a series of prophetic posts. They were all early posts. It was a serious doh moment.
There are still details to be sorted out, but first do no harm, appears to me to solve all risks on that front.
On with just this game,
This could have been so so much easier, if only i had had the courage of my convictions from the start. There were so many pressures, ideas and sources of information that I could trust but with so many layers of lies. I had tried every mathematical approach I know, and seemingly even to my self come to a complete standstill. In the end the only thing that is true to the convictions that I cam in through the door with is this.
What has been true every game, I have watched or played.
The feel reads I can trust best are the ones I make very early in the game. I should listen to every other source of information, even the ones that are lies can tell you things, providing you remember that. Of all the pressures and influences which one do I tust? The voice inside my head, the one that is mine. In the end I must trust that because i know what I am 100%.
I must proceed both with caution courage, though First do no harm is the creed that is me, to not simply be a useless twit, I must proceed both with caution courage of my convictions. Which is also what I knew when I came in the door.
On December 05 2012 23:43 AxleGreaser wrote:@Kicks Would you care to comment on these decisions that you made? Lots of questions inside the spoilers. In Kicks case: A thing I will find convincing is emotional plays. In particular (I believe) if he is scum then EARLY ON, he will feel confident, as he has more knowledge than town if he is town then early on he will, be more tentative, probing looking for knowledge and information Thus i will look early on where for the tells will be strongest. Now to see which fits. I really should not do this one, because it is an OMGUS, but it does? It is a risk for me, as I am making case on a point where he voted on me. (meh) + Show Spoiler +On December 04 2012 11:17 Kickstart wrote:
Yamato has it pretty much right. I have a bad habit of going after things which I deem dumb, but dumb doesn't mean scum. Less than 2 hours later. On December 05 2012 13:50 Kickstart wrote:
##AxleGreaser
Because dumb. If you didn't vote because you think I am scum why did you vote? When you are scum you can go after anything you do not understand, as such you will scatter gun these "vote because its dumb tells". They will get you dead fast. I would hope that as town he would not do this. Use your own judgement. If you think he would do that even if town, then it is a null tell. being wrong about what to do when, is one thing, but when it contradicts what you did 1.5 hrs earlier, without you even saying your other reason went away. That is also peculiar, but perhaps also a null tell, do you believe Kicks would do that as even as town? + Show Spoiler +When this happened, which is such justified pressure that is applied and it makes me think Yamato is a bit more town. How does Kicks conclude the opposite? Might it be because he knows * I am town and if I get lynched he can then attack Yamato over it and gain cred? * I am scum and hes trying to protect me? * what Yamato is doing is wrong, and Kicks knows Yamato should know better? * he is sad he voted for me because I am Because dumb? It is because he is [red]scum[red] I cant make another story fit. Can you? yamato77 should pressure me for that, at that time. On December 04 2012 12:40 yamato77 wrote:
EBWOP: Oh, you actually ARE avoiding me, cool.
##Vote AxleGreaser A scum player who already knows what I am may not even know why it was done. Also wont care. Kicks though is not suspicious of me leaving, why not? On December 04 2012 12:45 Kickstart wrote:
##FoS yamato
Badgering people then voting them when they ignore his badgering He didn't badger, I left. Ok so lets assume that just an error and he really believe that Yamoto just gave of scum tell. What does Kicks Do? And why? Time line link hereDoes he wait to see if anything will be said in response to pressure. No Then follow up with more? There is no desire to see if information is now forthcoming. + Show Spoiler +meta + Show Spoiler + (yeah its suck eggs material)
Please note if I am pressuring someone, I usually don't want help.
If you are pressuring someone, I will try not to get involved.
I usually learn just as much or more about the intentions of the person asking the questions as the one answering them.
Instead he immediately emotionally appeals to all around hey come help me lynch this guy? How does he know he has the right guy? And does he even care? On December 04 2012 12:47 Kickstart wrote:
I may be too early to jump the gun on thinking yamato is being scummy, but I haven't liked his incessant policy talk and now he just jumps on someone who he is badgering. Thoughts everyone? Well no he jumped on me for going away, when being questioned. And an hour an half before that I was too dumb to live? I don't think my play got much smarter in between. He then says Thoughts everyone?which AFAIK, is pretty much a scum claim. Scum hunting is focussed process whereby you find out why people do things. Asking for whatever random thoughts other people have, is just going to make noise. Worse it gives scum the opportunity to participate, without having to initiate their own lines of inquiry. Doing that is wanting to work together, make friends, with just anyone at all. Town does not do that. Even a nervous town will be worried about making friends with a scum, and then getting lynched for it. ##unVOTE NoLynch We now in my view have viable D1 lynch based on what I wrote. I am now convinced this is not the town I deserved it has at least 1 scum in it. Don't worry host I still <3 <3 <3. I am nice gentle soul.
To tell you truth in all this confusion, I kind a lost track of where I had been up to the following hard reset will synchronise me with things.
Hey Kick, do you feel Lucky.
##unvote
##VOTE Kicks
everyone else should still be aware, I will still have my eyes on you.
shh no dancing in the streets we have scum to hunt. Celebrations, are for when the hunt is done.
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I am in the process of writing a slightly post that clarifies where I am regarding, the vote on Rad. I would not want the apparent clarity of that read, to create illogical confusion. The game was stalled, I jiggled around a bit. Found someone tunnel so hard into the ground that if I was wrong, that would be bad as that would cost both our lives and I think the game.
The logic used in that whole train of thought was based on false premise. I feel Rad knew that, and trusted I did too.
That is what I think we did together.
So we were locked on course for potential MAD. Rad doubled down on that by I believe being sure he went down first. Who, which one person, was down with that?
On December 08 2012 19:24 Kickstart wrote:
Well I am off to bed, should be back before lynch time (though I am prone to sleeping for excessively long periods of time). I do hope to see more from especially arnarnion and jidolboy when I wake, though almost everyone (maybe not Axle or myself :D) could stand to post a bit more.
again as mentioned earlier this is feeling that it is Kick that trying make me do what he wants.
unFOS Rad.
Again because it feels right.
##unvote
##vote Kicks
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Could I have a vote Tally please.
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The very first time i felt, funny about Kick was here.
On December 04 2012 10:41 Kickstart wrote:Got home from school early hurray. This will be my third game, my first game was Mario Mini Mafia where we won as town, my second game was Newbie Mini Mafia XXXI where I lost as scum. On lurker lynch policy I am of the opinion you lynch top scum reads, that is the goal of the game after all. If someone lurking seriously becomes an issue then they can be dealt with at the adequate time.
Emph Add.
This appears to me to be subtly buddying the whole of town.
For me, Inside my head it feels like this there is the voice I listen to me, and there is this other voice, whispering, Yay team, be my friend.
That post sticks in my mind.
The feel of the other players first posts is more one of quiet distrust. While we all know one another are probably town
The game history is one thing, but listing the previous win loss record also feels like buddying up to town.
It is subtle but it is there.
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[QUOTE]On December 09 2012 07:01 AxleGreaser wrote:
[QUOTE]On December 08 2012 19:24 Kickstart wrote:
Well I am off to bed, should be back before lynch time (though I am prone to sleeping for excessively long periods of time). I do hope to see more from especially arnarnion and jidolboy when I wake, though almost everyone (maybe not Axle or myself :D) could stand to post a bit more.[/QUOTE]
To expand upon this so you understand my reasoning. If i just commit to that course of action and it turns out I was wrong, then having lynched Rad, they then have to lynch me. The person who is happy for me to go that wrong way is Kick.
If he is scum these actions make much more sense.
While these actions are not the early on in the game, they are also at a time when for me intention was best observed.
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Oats masters first post (or maybe a few) was for me hard to read, but i will try.
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With the votes so Broadly Spread and two hours to go we really had better get something done.
I bet your going to cry, when you know how hard I tried not to Listen the all town COACHES.
That was even earlier, and I didn't hear, that at all. While I can make early good reads me being so new too this I missed soo many others.
This early post
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=159&topic_id=385389
does not give me an accurate feel at all. The basis I think it is the past pre game history is misleading ME and clouding my ability to be on the same page as him at all. Oats may have been in two games, this however is my first, thus our understanding of the game back here was very different. I think I have only very recently got on the right page.
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As time is short I will do all I can, and prioritize the best that I can.
Another critical post from the start is this one.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17124574
This post has a strong town feel. One reason is that it comes in with plan of how to get the game started,
by asking some questions, it is a good plan for how get a game going on the right track. In truth as back then
I really played mainly by instinct, I have no idea what happened.
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Damn and the problem is because this is actually my first game I have not played as scum ever.
They have plans too. The difference is scum lie, I am town I will tell the truth, even if it costs me.
##unvote
##vote Yamato
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I will say this much now. You can compare this noobies guess,
to the harder logic, to the full light of day.
I only acquired my knowledge late in the game.
My gut feel is I just missed the chance to win.
and that we may instead be at a coin flip.
which is probably what we were at when this started. so 
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I need to count better, I think I have time
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EPT
