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Also, I thought I defended myself rather well here:
On December 19 2012 05:28 Hapahauli wrote:Regarding the Thrawn Casehttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=124#2461Munk-EI can't defend Munk-E beyond the fact that he's lynch-bait. I once again refer you to his newbie game filter (town D1 mislynch) as well as the fact that he replaced out (possibly he didn't have enough time to play). You've been content to ignore both of these factors over and over again. Munk-E looks "scummy." I get that. However he looks pretty damn scummy in his town play. I'm not pretending his play is townie, but you should realize that it could come from town-Munk-E and that his play at the very least should be "null" in your eyes. Hapa's Opening PostsI think everyone forgets that I'm a replacement in this game. I made a post about something I was not-caught-up-on the second I replaced in, and changed my mind when I realized my mistake. I get that "you don't like it", but what about that is scummy? Also... you think "responding to something too quickly" is scummy? I can' only read that as "Hapa put too much effort into replacing in, therefore he's scum." What the tits is that? I was excited to replace in and play the game initially (still had time, oh the memories...), and I was commenting on everything in the thread instantly and without a second thought. You should be reading that as townie buddy. Hapa's ScumhuntingI get I haven't posted some giant "Wall-O-Text," however you have to keep in mind that I do this as both scum and town. In fact I'm really really good about posting long cases as scum. Tunneling people, pursuing reads, pushing reads... etc. All of those are hallmarks of my scum-play. The same thing with "passivity" - name me one of my scum-games where I'm remotely passive. I know my activity explanations may be unsatisfying to you, but they are true. Also, outside of that 48 hour period of activity, I've been really active. Like seriously, does anyone realize that I have a 10-page filter as a replacement in this game? As a replacement. VE's LynchThis is pretty selective on your part. First of all, you ignore that I was the first to park my vote on VE in the thread. You also say that I was "too trusting" of the VE claim, when any post I have on the subject should be clear about my hesitation regarding the subject. You can't dismiss cop-claims so quickly. I still disagree with how some of you immediately pegged his claim as a lie - it's something that an inactive townie can do in that spot. Ultimately though we had no choice but to lynch him in that spot since the claim was too convenient and he wasn't doing much to help himself (and you'll notice, I never moved my vote). You also mention my attitudes on Jay as "against the thread." 1) Why would I pick an opinion deliberately against the thread as scum? 2) What about my attitudes on Jay make me scummy? This seems to be more about you disagreeing with my opinion rather than connecting a scum motive to it.
I don't know whether people have chosen to ignore it or dismiss it, but what's even the point of putting any effort in this game if you guys don't read what I type?
I could pull a Bluelightz card, but I'm not. I have no idea why you read town into his "eh I don't feel like playing" behavior. It's the stupidest thing I've ever seen in a mafia game.
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Riddle me this Djo:
Why do you support my lynch against someone who's openly not giving a shit about the thread (Bluelightz)?
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On December 21 2012 04:45 Djodref wrote:
No, I don't agree on your view on the lack of KP.
The scumteam certainly didn't forget to send the KP. And they could have done it to make Vivax go crazy about marv.
Honestly, it doesn't really matter, because today is pretty straightforward. It doesn't change anything from my point of view, Jay is scum, and nothing would have changed if one player was missing...
Also
"eh, I don't feel like reading your posts or thinking 'cause Jay is dead"
Is a really fun attitude for the thread to have when I'm trying to defend myself from a mislynch. This is fun gais!
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On December 21 2012 04:47 Djodref wrote:
@ Hapa
I forgot to add something regarding what happened during D1...
Please explain me how BL fits as a member of the scum team during D1.
You're right, he does go after Jay early on which is something I noticed in his filter. However, the scum team seemed to have no problems going after one another and even bussed one of their own fairly early.
Furthermore, it's not like his case on Jay is original or early for that matter. It could just about as easily be a distancing case.
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Like honestly, what about his D1 play is even town?
He votes Jay here...
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=384953¤tpage=12#238
A post in which he fingerpoints four players in total. He then proceeds to never talk about Jay ever again for Day 1. It reads really clear as a distancing case to me. Keep in mind that even VE tried to get Jay lynched on day 1 (was the 5th vote on Jay)
Then, he's asked a few questions about Adam, says he's "suspicious" and stuff, goes afk, then votes Adam:
On December 12 2012 01:43 Bluelightz wrote:
Aight. From the thread, I'm gonna vote
##Vote: Adam4167
Because of Palmar's case and my own reasons. I believe this is the most helpful vote I can put in before I sleep as I have school so can't be here @ the deadline.
Bluelightz was the 4th vote on Adam. That's not enough to dismiss a bussing attempt.
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On December 21 2012 04:51 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On December 21 2012 04:46 Hapahauli wrote:
Riddle me this Djo:
Why do you support my lynch against someone who's openly not giving a shit about the thread (Bluelightz)? Because you didn't defend me yesterday when I was a great mislynch potential. Because of Munk-E. Because of your attitude towards VE fakeclaim and jay during VE lynch. And because I don't see BlueLightz as part of the scumteam when I go back reading D1, especially if I assume that jay is scum. And also, I prefer to lynch you before BL, because it's less risky from my point of view. And I have to lynch you by elimination.
Soooo
...1) Because I was busy
...2) Because of lynch-bait townie that you are too lazy to look into meta for
...3) Because I actually bothered to think about situation rather than putting the blinders on in either way
...4) Because you're giving BL's stuff far more town credit than it's worth (see my previous post)
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On December 21 2012 05:01 Djodref wrote:Because of your attitude towards VE fakeclaim and jay during VE lynch.
Show nested quote +On December 18 2012 07:38 Hapahauli wrote:
interesting. I'll have to think about whether it's true or not. If no one counterclaims, I could get behind a Jay lynch. His tunnel on Djo felt really forced all through today. I'm ready to trust VE and lynch Jay. Show nested quote +On December 18 2012 08:08 Hapahauli wrote:On December 18 2012 08:05 thrawn2112 wrote:
i dont like ve's claim, it seems too easy to pull off Well it is rather risky given he's one counter-claim away from an insta-lynch. I wouldn't dismiss his claim as an outright lie until I see some more from him. I'm really ready to trust VE, I'm just waiting so I can see what you guys decide Show nested quote +On December 18 2012 08:15 Hapahauli wrote:On December 18 2012 08:11 thrawn2112 wrote:On December 18 2012 08:08 Hapahauli wrote:On December 18 2012 08:05 thrawn2112 wrote:
i dont like ve's claim, it seems too easy to pull off Well it is rather risky given he's one counter-claim away from an insta-lynch. I wouldn't dismiss his claim as an outright lie until I see some more from him. scum already tried to claim vigi This is true. Also Djo brought up the point that VE never attempted to defend him (Djo) the entire day. I'm not sure if that's due to VE being afk or just lurking though. I really would like to believe this guy Show nested quote +On December 18 2012 09:38 Hapahauli wrote:
I can't figure out a player that I'd feel comfortable switching onto.
Jay's reactions so far don't seem scummy. He's setting himself up to draw alot of attention to himself regardless of how VE flips. Even Z-Bo seems alright.
...and who else? Bluelightz? Seems like a coin-flip. Ok, look ! jay is pants on head. I don't want to lynch him anymore. He is going to look good when VE is gonna flip (red)
I'm sorry if you are town, but this is how I interpret your posts at that time...
Yeah so what?
Quote #1:
I'm clearly expressing reservations, and I'm not committed to either side. Also... I want to lynch... Jay? How does that make sense from a mafia perspective?
Quote #2:
I'm clearly not ready to trust VE as you claim. I said I'm not dismissing the claim, not that I want to trust him. Again, it's stupid in such a volatile spot to turn the blinders on in either way, and I'll be damned if you tunnel suspicion on me for having the correct attitude as a townie here.
Quote #3:
How in the fuck is that "I want to believe VE?" That's me expressing some very clear reservations about VE.
Quote #4:
Jay is "pants on head" - yes that's exactly what I thought at the time until looking through VE's filter (particularly his last scum-list post) showed me otherwise. What about my attitude there was unreasonable? Hell I took an opinion directly against everyone in the thread for what reason exactly?
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I'm sorry if you are town, but this is how I interpret your posts at that time...
These aren't reasonable interpretations of my posts. This is you trying to read between the lines and act as if I'm implying a thousand things that I'm not.
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You can scream about "I gave VE too much BOTD" now that VE has flipped red, but just because was mafia doesn't mean that his claim didn't deserve consideration. It was a last-minute cop claim. The claim is important and worth considering. Hell I'm not the only player that thought this way:
On December 18 2012 09:23 marvellosity wrote:
Z-Bo has gone according to his last post, i assume he's referring to what i pasted here.
i fucking hate this. none of his play is townie, but i hate lynching uncounterclaimed DTs.
djfnsdk
I think we have to lynch him and hope he doesn't flip DT or we feel very stupid
Also as far as my "grand plan" goes:
And yeah, wanted to switch and jay makes sense, you could 'confirm' VE as a cop and gain town credit in the operation.
Also, I don't understand how you could come from 'let's switch to jay' to go to 'him going totally nuts about VE is a town trait'
So what was my plan? That I wanted to get town-cred from lynching Jay? But then I switched to defending Jay to look as bad as possible and wanted to save Jay?
That alone should show you I'm not mafia. What was my plan? I would have had to 180 on plans with my "team" within a span of 5 minutes.
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On December 21 2012 05:21 Djodref wrote:@ HapaThis is because I hold your town play in a very high standard. Don't take it wrong, but you are maybe getting mislynched because people are expecting you to play perfectly. I would expect town Hapa to directly ring to FakeClaim Alert Bell 
Good lord. The "Fake claim alert bell" isn't about "ZOMG HE'S FAKE CLAIMING LYNCH HIM NOWWWW!" It's about being willing to consider the options in a claiming situation.
When someone claims cop, you have to consider the options. You can't tunnel lynch him, because not all last-minute cop claims are mafia. Also I'm surprised you draw so much of this advice from the Dandel Ion fake-claim in that newbie game when the situations were completely different. I was on you guys for not considering the claim since Dandel...
1) Claimed town roleblocker (lol)
2) He was the 4th claimed blue in a 13 player game
3) He had scumslipped several times in his filter
4) The entire town didn't even question his claim
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Awesome. Now we're getting somewhere.
Can you address this by the way?
On December 21 2012 05:27 Hapahauli wrote:... Show nested quote +And yeah, wanted to switch and jay makes sense, you could 'confirm' VE as a cop and gain town credit in the operation.
Also, I don't understand how you could come from 'let's switch to jay' to go to 'him going totally nuts about VE is a town trait' So what was my plan? That I wanted to get town-cred from lynching Jay? But then I switched to defending Jay to look as bad as possible and wanted to save Jay? That alone should show you I'm not mafia. What was my plan? I would have had to 180 on plans with my "team" within a span of 5 minutes.
Pretend I'm mafia for a minute. Walk me through my last posts before the deadline (regarding Jay and VE) - what was the plan I had?
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On December 21 2012 05:52 Djodref wrote:
Save VE, lynch jay, getting VE confirmed and you town cred. Then, victory could be achieved.
But it didn't happen like so,
VE gets obviously lynched, ask jay to go pants on head, and you try to make him look town for being that obvious.
That's a pretty impressive plan to come up with in such a chaotic last-minute situation. I'd be impressed if I was mafia.
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What makes that more likely than the other situation?
That VE + Jay decided to go pants-on-head, and Bluelightz didn't post once during their entire escapade?
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Also, if you say Munk-E again, allow me to pre-emptively retort:
1) Munk-E replaced out of the game due to inactivity concerns
2) Munk-E is lynch-bait
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The 3rd theorem of the internet suggests that you will pay more attention to text of greater size.
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Or its something that's easily inferred from a guy who makes 4 posts and replaces out. >.>
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On December 21 2012 06:21 grush57 wrote:
idk man inactivity concerns seem like u got told.
No it's an inference. This is a reasonable conclusion from someone who made four posts and replaced out - True or False?
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On December 21 2012 07:06 marvellosity wrote:
Hapa, someone being lynch-bait doesn't make them not-scum, you should know that. It's not an argument for anything. I presume BL is still your #1 scumread after jay? Despite my/Palmar/whoever's reservations?
Yes pretty much. Though I'll have to look at Z-Bo and Vivax just to be sure.
Really don't think Vivax is scum based on his general attitude (and polar opposite scum meta). Z-Bo... kinda hard to see VE + Jay pushing him like this.
It comes down to... well who's left? Bluelightz.
Z-Bo, 3 blues is fine in a 16 player game. I mean, anywhere between like 2 to as many as 6 could be balanced depending on the roles themselves, and the roles the mafia have. From the lack of roleblock other than me from the JK, it seems like mafia don't have a roleblocker, which is normally the primary scum role, so I'd maybe expect a number towards the lower end, or at least not many strong roles. I don't know how to factor in mafia vigi as I'm unsure on my assessment of how strong it is.
On Vivax, meh. I need something more than that to make me worry about him.[/QUOTE]
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<3
Muahahahahah, evil plan successful.
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Vivax, if you think I'm scum that's fine, but the antagonism has to stop. It's beyond what's necessary to play the game.
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EPT
