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Paranoia Mafia
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
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Lazermonkey
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Lazermonkey
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On November 30 2012 08:30 Blazinghand wrote: omg 1 of u is lying lynch all liars we lynch u both n kill a scum doooood OPA BANDWAGON STYLE! ##Vote Ace | ||
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Lazermonkey
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Lazermonkey
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On November 30 2012 22:30 ShiaoPi wrote: ¿Qué?Xata marv already said why it is illadvised to share townreads without a good reason. So what is your reason? None of the mentioned townreads of your are in danger of getting lynched (deadline isnt that soon anyway). Nor have you cut down the number of players to figure out scum. So why do it? Really see no reason to do that. I know you to be a better player than just mindlessly share stuff like that as your contribution. Xata BEGAN to give out his town reads and then Marv responded with that he thinks giving out town reads this early isn't a very good strat, and that you'd rather try to keep them for yourself. I agree with this but it's obvioulsy something Xata didn't think of as he explained the reason for outing his townreads in this post: + Show Spoiler + On November 30 2012 21:34 Xatalos wrote: It's because I remembered an interesting strategy in a game I observed (Wheel of Fortune). This post explains it well: I don't like this post at all because at a first glimpse you get the impression that Marv adviced against outing town reads and that Xata still insisted on doing so when it is in fact the other way around. The only two reasons for you to do this is imo: a). You did not read the post where Xata explained his post very carefully, but why would you make a pressure against him then? b). You are attempting to make Xata look worse then he in fact did, which is a straight up scum motive. Neither of these are good for town. ##Unvote ##Vote ShiaoPi | ||
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Lazermonkey
Sweden2176 Posts
On November 30 2012 23:07 ShiaoPi wrote: But you not liking it is not the same thing as it being untrue. While I don't agree with outing the reads either, I think Xata gave a legit explanation of why he did so. He could obviously be lying but he could be speaking the truth and thus I don't really see how we can read so much into it and I am treating it as a null tell for the time being.Lazer you are painting scummotives were none are. I am simply reinforcing my question on why share them. He had initially responded to it quoting bl. I said why I dont like it and I ask again why. How is that scummy? I think you are reading into it way too much. | ||
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Lazermonkey
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On November 30 2012 23:27 ShiaoPi wrote: And the point of poking him would be? It's not like he is going to confess that he is scum. He have already explain his reason for doing so. At most you will be able to get him to repeat himself. Then we can agree to disagree I guess. I like to keep poking him. | ||
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Lazermonkey
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On November 30 2012 23:35 ShiaoPi wrote: Isn't it quite obvious yet?EBWOP: format Lazer, why are you so intent on stopping me from questioning xata further? It's not the fact that you are questioning him that I find troublesome but that you are wasting time asking a question that already have been answered and that is just a waste of time. You expecting him to be smarter means that he either isn't as smart as you thought or that he is lying. But there isn't a reliable way to figure out which one it is and it turns into WIFOM at best. What of the above is it that you don't get? | ||
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Lazermonkey
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On November 30 2012 23:50 Lazermonkey wrote: Isn't it quite obvious yet? It's not the fact that you are questioning him that I find troublesome but that you are wasting time asking a question that already have been answered and that is just a waste of time. You expecting him to be smarter means that he either isn't as smart as you thought or that he is lying. But there isn't a reliable way to figure out which one it is and it turns into WIFOM at best. What of the above is it that you don't get? On December 01 2012 00:03 ShiaoPi wrote: GJ ignoring everything I said...Well have fun tunneling further then, cant help you. Since xata is gone now and nobody besides lazer seems to be here I am going to bed now... | ||
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Lazermonkey
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ShaioPi and Xata probebly isn't scum team I guess. | ||
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Lazermonkey
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On December 01 2012 01:02 austinmcc wrote: Regarding people who are being over trolly in the sense that they basically haven't posted anything abot the game yet, BH and MrZentor. I played with Zentor and he was like this all game (aka, doing nothing) so it's mostly BH I'm concerned about. Marv have been posting alot of things but he have at least been posting some usefull stuff so I'm fine with that. Which players do you feel have been overly trolly? I agree with your sentiment, but it's not enough to just state that. So let's start something going. Here are my thoughts on Zealos. He's not posting pictures or videos to thread, but he stands out to me as someone who has been here but isn't doing anything. Filter is almost solely one-liners, with a "vote x10" that then gets unvoted. He has one post with any meat to it - + Show Spoiler + On November 30 2012 21:13 Zealos wrote: I disagree on the question front Xata. Asking lots of questions forces potential Mafia players to give their opinions, and it means they can't avoid talking about the topics at hand, also, it's a good way of getting discussion moving. The way you avoid mafia being able to ask questions all game and not give opinions is to ask similar questions of them. If everyone on the town team keep pressuring one another, and the mafia team, then eventually it becomes obvious who is scum, So Lazermonkey, what are your thoughts on Zealos? Do they line up with mine? Beyond that, pick a player of particular interest to you, and I'll give you my thoughts on them. Feel free to share yours or not. Regarding Zealos, I don't really care about any posts but his last. I basically agree what he was saying about questions, they are good but should be used as a complement to scum hunting, rather than replacing it. I don't think we can read too much into his post tho. I am going to treat him as null for the time being and see if he actually does something usefull. Thoughts about Dandel? He have been posting quite alot although some of it have been rubbish. I don't really like how he claimed to be a noob right away. But at the same time I don't really think it's too good of a move from scum PoV either. I'm treating him null atm. | ||
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Lazermonkey
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On December 01 2012 01:32 austinmcc wrote: But with this logic wouldn't trolly BH get killed as well. That's kinda bad imo. Assuming he is town that is ; )My gut reaction was to say that he's been gone a bit, sleeping/not here/whatever, and that if he returns purely trolling, then I'd be worried, but if he returns with anything else than I won't. Which is stupid, and telegraphs how I'll read him, and blah blah. As I typed that, I realize I actually don't care about his trolling. If he's scum, he'll eventually get killed for it because other players will mind, and if he only trolls then he has no control over the game, can't really influence anything. Which is fine by me. If he's town and trolling, I trust him to eventually un-troll. So while I'd prefer a helpful BH, I don't think I'm actually going to be suspicious of him if he continues trolling, unless we're getting mid-late game and I've got townreads on a lot of the remaining players. | ||
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Lazermonkey
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On December 01 2012 02:27 marvellosity wrote: To be frank, I do think almost everyone are more willingly to sheep players who are considered to be stronger rather than newbies even if they deny it. At least to some extent. I think it's a part of your subconscious. austin, I agree that I don't like this vote: Just because debears himself won't sheep someone on reputation doesn't mean people don't, and it doesn't make it inherently scummy to think that people do. I can find various instances of townies basically just sheeping me (e.g. Clarity, iamperfection) | ||
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Lazermonkey
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Also, as debears pointed out... On December 01 2012 04:08 Zealos wrote: I'll be the first to say it. I don't think Debears is mafia | ||
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On December 01 2012 10:10 wherebugsgo wrote:However, I want to point out that there is something about Lazermonkey that I find quite disconcerting: he shows up for a brief amount of time, votes randomly, and then leaves. He first did that with Ace and then did it again with Shiaopi. His exchange with Shiaopi seemed really forced and artificial, and he hasn't said anything of substance. Try to think of an opinion he's had or of anything of substance he's said: my mind comes up blank. I really don't get how you can read so much into the Ace vote TBH. It was a joke obviously ##vote Lazermonkey And it was less then one hour from game starting so I he was hardly in any danger at all. The fact that you are even using this as an argument against me is mind boggling. Also, I see how you can say that I don't have any reads yet when it's quite clear that he have a scum read on ShiaoPi...While I think WBG post about me was weak, DP ''case'' is FAR worse. On December 01 2012 10:47 DarthPunk wrote: This post is taken heavily out side of context. I said this to show how stupid ShiaoPi's arguments against Xata were. So if anything I am taking a stance AGAINST ShiaoPi. While it is true I had a null read on Xata at the time of this post(still do) that is totaly and utterly irrelavant.Sup. Thread was interesting to catch up with. Lots of people looking worse than they did previously. I do want to unvote debears however. ##unvote @VE you say that you missed the 10 post. Then how do you feel justified in your vote on debears which only makes sense if you are just sheeping marv (like I assumed you were) Whilst reading through though one player did stick out to me as the scummiest of them all That player is Lazermonkey. Lazermonkey does not like to take a position. On December 01 2012 10:47 DarthPunk wrote:When asked who his reads were. I don't really see how me making null reads on some players is making me scum. And the funny thing is, you find that my argument for saying that they are null makes me even more scummy. What a fucked up logic is that? So it would be better for me to simply say that they are null without even an explanation? If some action from some could be considered scummy or townie and it all comes down to WIFOM to determ which one it is, don't you think that is a null tell?He says nothing at all. Here is how LM hedges. This could make them townie HOWEVER this could make them scummy overall they are null. On December 01 2012 10:47 DarthPunk wrote:Finally let's look back at his shiao vote. Something is there that may not be apparent but when some reasoning is applied seems off. While I may not have phrased myself in an optimal way I don't get how you can say that: What is he saying here? a.) shiao you are town and made what I perceive to be an error. b.) you are scum and are trying to mislynch xatalos either way it is a liability and you need to go. He hedges even when voting shiao. He does not care about mislynching a townie which is 50% of the scenario for shiao in his own estimation. Lazermonkey has been wishy-washy and has not really said anything even when voting. He is not actually contributing and not scumhunting. ##Vote: Lazermonkey ''You did not read the post where Xata explained his post very carefully, but why would you make a pressure against him then?'' = ''shiao you are town and made what I perceive to be an error.'' Like WTF, there is a huge diference between theese two. While a) could be done by a really crappy town player it also can be motivated from scum PoV. And saying that there is a 50% chance for either of my estimations is bullcrap. It comes down to which of the explanations you think is more likely. He obviously either did a) or b) but it doesn't really matter unless he is a bad town player in which case we might have to reconsider. But Afaik ShiaoPi is quite experienced player, no? Several times in this post DP are taking things out of context and he missinterprets ALOT of stuff. He is trying to make me look far worse than I in fact. There isn't any reason for this for town. Also notice how close after WBGs post this came. While I'd say it's quite unlikely that scum team WBG and DP would make a push at the same time against me, I think it's perfectly resonable to say that DP saw WBGs post and thought there were a decent chance to cause a bandwagon on me. DP just rose immensley on my scum-o-meter. While I am still suspicious of ShiaoPi because he is yet to come back and give a satisfying answer I think DP is looking worse. ##Unvote ##Vote DarthPunk | ||
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Lazermonkey
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Actually, I'd not be suprised if one of BH is in fact 3:rd party. His play seems very off as either alignment, and especially for a player of his caliber I thik that it worrisome. | ||
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On December 01 2012 20:53 marvellosity wrote: Well, it was a meta case based upon meta that MrZentor doesn't have in my experience...although whether he fucked up one of MrZentor's games, the case was still absolutely ludicrous :/ | ||
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Lazermonkey
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On December 01 2012 21:51 DarthPunk wrote: Does OMGUS really mean that you are pushing someone for them being bad? Because in that case I don't how my post is being based on OMGUS. Oh look straight up OMGUS. And railing against how 'bad' my case against you was does not discredit said case nor make me scum. Look at the difference between you and I. You have a case made against you. You 'defend' yourself and then straight up omgus vote me because making a case is anti-town now days. I have a case made against me. I try to defend myself and then try and figure out if the case against me is being made by scum or if it is in fact a townie who has a legitimate concern. No straight up OMGUS. and I try to decide if this is a mistaken townie or scum pushing the lynch. I don't really know what to say. If you are in fact town. Your OMGUS of me with little to no reasoning or evidence is terrible play. If you are scum keep doing what you are doing. Basically this post is you saying. ''Lol, I look so ProTown because I'm ProTown because I'm town. Your case sux because you are not ProTown''. Really wtf. I have several points in my case that points toward you being scum. I also answered for all of your arguments on why I am being scum. And all you say is that I am OMGUS-voting you? what? Can you please say what part of the case is OMGUS and motivate why that is? You really aren't saying anything in this post. Nothing you mention is being backed up by even a single piece of evidence. Btw, in the bolded partyou are now guilty of doing exactly what you accused me of doing earlier. What is your stance on me currently? | ||
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Lazermonkey
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On December 01 2012 22:12 DarthPunk wrote: Now who is misinterpreting who? If you have several reasons list them succinctly for me please. I don't want to keep reading your previous travesty of a case and trying to figure out if you actually make sense or you are just retarded like you seem. You say that giving a bunch of null tells is not scummy. I disagree. And the way in which you phrased those null tells makes you even scummier.Then we disagree. Pulling random scum reads out of your ass for the sake of giving out scum reads is not something I think helpes town. Can you give some examples of when I phrase my null tells in a scummy way? You say that the context was nullifies the scumminess of your wishy washy reads. I say that the read and the lack of conviction and clear stances when giving reads is telling regardless of the context.You simply don't get it. The point of post you were refering to wasn't to give my read on Xata but to showcase how bad ShiaoPi's logic was. As far as I could see. Your 'case' against me was this is why you are wrong. This is why your case is bad. I can;t see any town motive for that. OMGUS vote.So there cannot be any kind of scum motivation behind misinterpret or blowing posts out of proportions? kk. Honestly as much as I am loath to try and interpret any more of your writing, I would like a very short summary of clear definitive reasons for your vote on me.Basically boils down to: 1.your case on me being filled of overover exaggerations and/or lies. 2. The timing of the vote(slightly after WBGs). Oh. And sorry if you thought I was being wishy- washy. I am not. I think you are scum. My vote on you should make that perfectly clear. By the way. You are being far too defensive for a townie. | ||
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Lazermonkey
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On December 01 2012 22:38 DarthPunk wrote: 1. WTF DUDE, you really aren't looking at what I am writing and in what context I am writing it. I was talking about YOUR accusation of ME being scum for dishing out a couple of null tells, not the other way around. The amount of times you are missreading stuff and calling me scum for it is fucking insane.Don't format like that. It makes it impossible to respond properly. And much more difficult to read overall. 1.)It was';t a random scum read for the sake of it. You are full of shit. I had a problem with your posts. I looked closer and decided you were scum based on your content. 2.)Yet you still gave a read on XATA regardless of the context of that read. 3.) Yeah. But you say misinterpret and blown out of proportion which are subjective because they are based on your perceptions/lies. I feel the opposite on my case. and I think yours was a piece of crap in comparison. 4.) So your case was baseless OMGUS. And that I wrote that much analysis only AFTER seeing bugs's vote? When In actual fact there were a whole bunch of posts, including bugs' between the time I started it and it was finished. Yeah I am done with you. 2. Yes, and? 3. Ofc, and that is why I think you are scum. 4. You calling me scum on false premises is not the same thing as OMGUS. | ||
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Lazermonkey
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Once again: Can you give some examples of when I phrase my null tells in a scummy way? | ||
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Lazermonkey
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WTF DUDE, you really aren't looking at what I am writing and in what context I am writing it. I was talking about YOUR accusation of ME being scum for dishing out a couple of null tells, not the other way around. The amount of times you are missreading stuff and calling me scum for it is fucking insane. should read WTF DUDE, you really aren't looking at what I am writing and in what context I am writing it. I was talking about the fact that you had been calling me out for a big amount of null reads, while I don't think that is a scum tell. The amount of times you are missreading stuff and calling me scum for it is fucking insane. Shouldv'e been obvious tho. And point still stand, you missinterprent what I said. | ||
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Lazermonkey
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On December 01 2012 23:48 ShiaoPi wrote: Bolded part is wut? You write this, yet this is the first post since I called you out and you left. You say your more intrested in BH now, what happend with Xata? You STILL have not given a satisfying reason to your strange behavior earlier but instead try to ignore it by saying that I haven't properly read some parts of your filter. Care to enlighten me?Hey lazer you still interested in me? I dont think so, seeing you entangled with DP now...just for housekeeping purpose go read my posts if you still think tgat i am not responding to you. I'm more interested in BH now. I know that his metareading is pretty good(see liquid city) but I dont agree at all with his read on DP, I also cant see how he can be that sure of it right now.... BH you here right now? What makes you so certain? Also did your opinion change on DP following his spat with lazer? You then make a couple of posts saying that you are not really sure what to think of BH and then ends up voting him anyway? I am still interested in you. You are my second highest scum read at this point. And you did a very poor job of convincing me otherwise. | ||
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On December 02 2012 01:48 Zealos wrote: Why is this? There are plenty of time untill the lynch=alot of time to make reads. Your filter is empty as you yourself point out. But that is not the most alarming IMO. You really haven't been scum hunting at all. You have a few null or slight town reads but most of all you are being extremly wish washy. Agreed. Looking at what is happening HERE, all I am seeing is an angry Vet making no real contribution to the game. Btw, I had a mad friday, and have been busy most of today, so I won't really have time to add much till the lynch. I will be more involved in the coming days, but until then I'm pretty useless. One thing I have noticed is that Marv seems to be playing differently than how I remember him. I played a scumgame against his Town play, and he was aggressive, asking a ton of questions, and wouldn't rest till he had me killed. This game he seems to be acting much more passively... You say Ace looks like an angry vet with no contribution. Does this make Ace scum do you think? You say marv plays differently, but does that make him scum? You say you don't think Debears is scum, although you provide no analysis. You don't think Xata is scum. What do you think then? ##FoS Zealos | ||
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Lazermonkey
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On December 02 2012 02:44 MrZentor wrote: I somewhat agree with what MrZentor says here. While I don't think he is the most town looking person I still think it's quite unliklely for him to be scum. However, I do think there is a decent chance he is 3 party due to the massive amount of wierdness comming out from him.Really? To me, BH is the most townie person here. There is no way a mafia would make a case and a few minutes later just tell everybody to ignore it. Mafia don't want to be in the spotlight, and bizarre behavior like that puts them in it. | ||
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Lazermonkey
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I obviously want to lynch DP. I am okay with lynching ShiaoPi as well. I don't like Zealos at all. His posts are all non-commital. He didn't really take any stance what so ever untill he was called out, at which point he posted a case on Xata who was under the most suspicion at the time. I'm quite willing to lynch Zealos also. DI feels like a coin toss. I don't feel like I can read into anything of what he says really. He is null for me and I'd rather lynch someone else, tho I am okay with lynching him if there really is no other alternatives left. Other players I don't really feel like lynching atm. | ||
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On December 02 2012 06:33 Ace wrote: No, not at all...So the case on Zealos is inactivity? | ||
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On December 02 2012 07:18 MrZentor wrote: Like who? and for what reasons?There are too many people that I want to kill.  | ||
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On December 02 2012 07:40 Blazinghand wrote: It's MrZentor...I like where you're going but I'd like a bit more explanation. | ||
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NotLol @ Dp... | ||
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On December 03 2012 01:47 ShiaoPi wrote: Sooo, this means you DO have a scum read on Xata still? You are being somewhat unclear regarding that...Okay, Let me see... We got 2roleclaims and had 2 lastminuteswitches which resulted in killing off DP.... First things first DYH claim your shot right before deadline, anything else would be folly. On another note we have to WIFOM around marv now, whether he gets shot/rbed or whateverelse. I am of two minds pn hos claim but yeah we can only wait and see for that. I wanted to do some more stuff in this night but unfortunately time is short and so I will have to keep it simple. Tomorrow I'll be back at my computer with some time on my hands so I can elaborate further (strongly doubt that I will get shot) On my watchlist right now: -Marv depending on night actions -DYH see above These two are the obvious ones, then I still want to keep tabs on BH and Xata (whom I have kind of forgot earlier in d1) BH led a mislynch, while that happens to anyone of us, i still dislike the way je insisted on SP being scum, when he was willing to swap earlier tarfets, stubbornness in a read aint necessaeily scum, but still. In regards to xata there has been a lot about him alreasy by others I am not going to rehash that. But his last post was pure fluff so it kind of adds up. Moving on I would like to see more from sandroba, dandel has done jackshit before replacing out, so there is a lot of stuff that sandroba should be able to comment to. These are the ppl I am most interesred in right now. More will come tmr, sry its late. | ||
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Lazermonkey
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I still don't think BH is scum, although I'm starting to reconsider a bit after Keirathis post about his meta. People are saying that him playing retarded and that he is scum for it. It makes no sense. Playing retarded (which I to some degree agree with, at least he is not living up to his reputation as a vet IMO) is not good for town, however nor is it good for scum. The only I can hold against him is, like I said, the meta case. But I don't want to lynch him purely based on this. Marv is most likely town. The case on him wasn't a case even a case. I think Marv's emotional response to the accusations against him is perfectly resonable. Zealos is looking quite bad atm. He didn't really say anything usefull during the day untill he voted Xata right as the votes against him were falling in. This is scummy as shit. He then proceed to afk when no further votes are comming in on Xata. If he actually is town, which I somewhat doubt at this point, and gets vigi shot we wouldn't get any reliable info other than that he thinks Xata. VE, I hadn't looked too much into the guy prior to this. Things that stick out is that he seems to always be pushing for the persons looking weakest, much like he is attempting to bandwagon. I don't really like this. Still I think his logic has been decent when pushing these cases. Overall null leanng sliiight scum. DI/Sandroba I cannot comment on really. There isn't anything to comment on in fact. Debears seems town WBG seems town MrZentor seems Lol Ace is gone : / ShiaoPi went very inactive after I started to attack him. My suspicion against him still stands. Austin I am not sure with. I really had a quite strong town read on him at the start of the day. I felt he asked a relevant questions and forced players to take stances. However, after rereading him a bit, I'm not as sure as I was before. Things I don't like is how he doesn't take so many stances unless he is called out for it, which I feel is alarming. He is withholding his vote quite long which I generally think is bad for town. Still think he is town, although not AS sure as I was before. DYH vigi claim seems legit, tho we will see what happends in the night post I guess. Top scummers for now are Zealos and ShaioPi. | ||
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Lazermonkey
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Link to ShiaoPi's filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=383489&user=224589 My main problem with Shaio is the fact that he always seems to be attacking the weakest person at any given time, always jumping off the wagon once that person is looking less likely to get misslynched. And his reasons for doing so has been awkward to say the least. I get the impression that he is trying to get people misslynched so badly that he forgets why that person is actually under so much pressure. First off we have Xata. He posts this post saying he is asking for the reason why Xata is asking for town reads EVEN if he already have. I can buy that he disagrees with his reasons, in fact several people did that. But pushing him for that and claiming that ''I know you to be a better player than just mindlessly share stuff like that as your contribution.'' is a strange way of doing so. He cannot obviously expect him to explain his play any further, espicially if he were to be scum. Another interesting thing is the fact that he doesn't even mention(except for once when he notes that xata is gone, however xata were present at several other occasions between the time of this post and the lynch) Xata anymore untill D2. On November 30 2012 22:30 ShiaoPi wrote: Xata marv already said why it is illadvised to share townreads without a good reason. So what is your reason? None of the mentioned townreads of your are in danger of getting lynched (deadline isnt that soon anyway). Nor have you cut down the number of players to figure out scum. So why do it? Really see no reason to do that. I know you to be a better player than just mindlessly share stuff like that as your contribution. Next up is BH. His reasons for voting Bh are quite peculiar as well... His main concern is that BH seems way too sure of that DP is scum based on his meta read. He does not comment on the fact that BH vote swaps like 5 times in just a few hours, he does not comment on that the cases are forced or bad, etc. On December 02 2012 01:40 ShiaoPi wrote: I just dont see how BH can be that decisive with that metaread he produced. DP aint that easy to read, I only got him in LVI via elimination and reaction. Especially if you consider BHs read on me in Liquid city which was extremely convincing in comparison to this one. On to my opinInon on Dp, he is a nullread. Cannot make too much out of him yet. I suck at d1 anyway. Lastly he votes Keir without any real reason beyond that he thinks his case against BH is bad, basically voting him purely based on OMGUS rather then evidence. On December 04 2012 00:24 ShiaoPi wrote: SNIP Now on to the good stuff: Keirathi Obviously my changed read on BH is important for a red kei. but let's start from looking at ace: -He has been dickish, trolly and unhelpful, not exactly a scumtell but it adds to the entire picture. -What makes me wonder is especially the parts in his filter with "shiao/debears/DYH"-interaction and "shiao/VE/DP"-interaction. I do not remember having thoroughly interacted much with DYH, there were some questions from debears which I answered, also I did not interact with VE/DP in a remarkable kind of way. So I have no clue where he got this from, conclusions he does not read the thread thoroughly and makes shit up as he goes to appear contributing. Moving on to Kei now, While I initially agreed with a lot of his points against BH, I was also in the game from the beginning. Now with a clear reread I do not read BH as scummy anymore, from someone who replaces in I would expect him to have a clear mindset as well and I believe Keirathi to be a good enough player to be able to come to the same conclusion as I did. The entire amount of tunneling onto BH as an "easy" target seems to me like an attempt to just derail the entire thread into bascially the same discussion we had at the end of d1. Also the complete disregard for anything else, why? Cuz scum! ##vote: Keirathi SNIP Every time he have voted someone, his reason has been quite silly. I feel this is very likely a scum mentality. Instead of looking for suspicious behavior and voting that person, he is looking for a good person to vote and then tries to justify the vote with ''suspicion''. ##Vote ShiaoPi | ||
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Lazermonkey
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Also, when Keir brings this up, WBG responds with On December 04 2012 01:49 wherebugsgo wrote: Yet earlier he had saidmaybe bad scum do, cause that's fucking stupid. On December 02 2012 08:18 wherebugsgo wrote: While I understand these are not the same thing, same logic applies. Just because something isn't the optimal way for scum to play, does not mean they cannot play that way. So, why does this apply to not VEs filter but only against DYH?you don't lynch claimed blues on d1 out of policy because you're bad. Imagine every scum claimed some sort of blue d1, you're guaranteed to kill a townie day 1. This type of logic is just absurd. | ||
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On December 04 2012 09:23 ShiaoPi wrote: I have read several times what you wrote about Xata, unless I'm missing something in which case you should feel free to show that. I still think it's scum indicative. I don't have to convince on the fact that I think you are you are scum tho so I will leave it at that. Snip @Lazer: you fucking suck, I don't even want to start where your "case" is bad. You still have not read what I wrote regarding Xatalos (or you are just too thick to read properly), Regarding BH, I tried to get more out of him during the time I was online, look here: Well sucks to be in me in my timezone, but there is only so much you can do if nobody is around for the time you are. If you think my reasons to vote Keirathi are OMGUS you really need to properly reread what the term omgus means...... Now what about you share some of your reads in thread? Do you got any other reads besides me? What is your opinion on Keirathi or Bugs? Snip Still think your reasons for pushing BH are weak. Okay please tell me why you are going after Keir then. Because when I read your post where you voted Keir, your reasons were IMO some WFIOM that wasn't alignment indicative followed up with you saying his reasons to vote BH was weak. Keir I haven't looked too much into. But based on the fact that no scum with their right in mind would ever push BH at this point I'm leaning town on him. Regarding WBG, I really liked the case of debeas. And I quite dislike WBG response to everyone, which was basically everyone who agree with this are retards. I don't have anything to add to the case on him but he is a strong scum read atm and I'm 100% willing to vote him atm. | ||
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What's up with Zealos? Is he getting modkilled/replaced? | ||
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I don't really care too much about Ace and what he did. You say his is dick, which I agree with but first off that isn't alignment indicative and secondly judging from other peoples response to it, it seems to be his meta. After reading through Keirs filter now, I can agree with you that he wasn't too helpfull for starters but once again, I don't think scum Keir would tunnel BH. As you also mention he have improved his posting and I thus I am treating him as slight town. While I don't agree with your reasoning still, I have made my points clear. It's up you to prove that you actually are town. @WBG I don't know what to say anymore...You are calling everyone retards instead of actually adressing the case. And yes, there is a case. | ||
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On December 04 2012 21:54 ShiaoPi wrote: I don't agree with Ace being entirely unhelpfull. While I understand they have the alignment, I think holding stuff against Keir that Ace did isn't very wise because he obviously isn't Ace. Lazer, ace was entirely unhelpful during d1, and you should care about it since Keirathi and Ace have the same alignment.... | ||
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On December 05 2012 07:00 Blazinghand wrote: Are you srs?nice try leirathi 1!!!" mrz and I are mason asshole | ||
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On December 05 2012 07:06 Keirathi wrote: WTF this does not make sense, explain yourself BH?So you made a case against your own mason partner? | ||
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On December 05 2012 07:08 MrZentor wrote: I'm not sure I'm buying this...Remember how BH made a case against me then retracted it instantly? That was him being stupid, then after posting it realizing I was masoned with him. XD | ||
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##Unvote ##Vote WBG | ||
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On December 05 2012 07:12 Keirathi wrote: Because you wanted to save WBG and didn't think it was likely taht theer were any masons?Why the fuck would I claim Mason with bugs if I was scum with him? If there is actually a Mason pair, I 100% damn myself to getting lynched after him. That's just bad play, when I could have kept harping about ShiaoPi and then being pissed that people wouldn't listen to me, but surprised when WBG flips scum. Don't be ridiculous. | ||
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On December 05 2012 07:14 DoYouHas wrote: Like scum defending each other? yhea!Am I the only person believing these claims? They both make sense with the previous play. | ||
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On December 05 2012 07:15 Keirathi wrote: Yes, I know. But it's a low risk high reward thing. And Bugs flipping scum wouldn't really put you in such a good position either. Why would I ASSUME there aren't any masons in a closed setup? That would just be suicide. | ||
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On December 05 2012 07:19 debears wrote: I don't think we should lynch MrZentor tomorrow when if they flip town. Zentor being scum means Bh is scum as well. And that is impossible more or less.Keir, scum would be stupid to counterclaim in this situation. If WBG flips town, we lynch Mr Z tomorrow | ||
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On December 05 2012 07:20 Lazermonkey wrote: Also, it makes NO FUCKING SENSE WHAT SO EVER for Zentor to fake claim mason as scum at this point just to get WBg lynched.I don't think we should lynch MrZentor tomorrow when if they flip town. Zentor being scum means Bh is scum as well. And that is impossible more or less. | ||
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On December 05 2012 07:22 debears wrote: Well, there is no telling how many power roles scum/3 party have. huh...... So you're going to blindly trust we have 5/6 power roles as town? No way | ||
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On December 05 2012 07:23 MrZentor wrote: Si, mister!I mean, it is a closed setup. | ||
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On December 05 2012 07:24 debears wrote: Yes it sounds fucked up. But thats the only explanation I can think off. Don't you see how incredibly stupid Zentor would be to fake claim in this position? He would get the nobel prize in being stupid for fuck sake...This is a 15 player game. That means 1/3 or over 1/3 of the entire town would be confirmed. No way | ||
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On December 05 2012 07:24 debears wrote: My spider senses tells me that the possibility for a medic is quite low if WBG/Keir are masons.And that's not even counting unclaimed blues like a medic | ||
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On December 05 2012 07:35 Keirathi wrote: Well, that seals the deal I guess.Here's my role PM: You are Big Bird. You can chat with your fellow muppet, wherebugsgo, outside of the thread. (Mason) | ||
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On December 05 2012 07:38 austinmcc wrote: Well, I meant it more in a like''Now I'm 100%-sure I want to lynch WBG''-wayIn no way does that seal the deal. That tells us that IF Keirathi is telling the truth THEN Keirathi is blue, town, and a mason. It tells us absolutely nothing about WBG's alignment. | ||
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On December 05 2012 07:38 MrZentor wrote: You are Mace Windu. A member of the Jedi Council. You know your fellow councilmember, BlazingHand, is town. You may communicate with them outside the thread. (mason) Yeah, you made the wrong thing blue. You're scum. On December 05 2012 07:35 Keirathi wrote: Huh.Here's my role PM: You are Big Bird. You can chat with your fellow muppet, wherebugsgo, outside of the thread. (Mason) | ||
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On December 05 2012 07:56 Keirathi wrote: Not only that but his mason partner also counter claimed in a position where there would make 0% for scum to do so.I gave damn good reasons for why BH is scum. He never even fucking refuted them, he just started yelling "BUT I SAVED DYH SO I MUST BE TOWN, GOD YOU'RE DUMB KEIR". | ||
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Can you confirm this NOT being bastard setup Jingle? | ||
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On December 05 2012 15:10 DoYouHas wrote: Why should I be lynched? Because of some random WIFOM + how VE talked to me?I had forgotten that MrZ and BH's PMs say that the other one was town (meaning they either both have to be town, or both have to be scum). That puts me back in my original thinking. Lazer needs to be lynched. | ||
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On December 05 2012 23:24 debears wrote: With BHs Pm saying Zentor is town, their both alignments are guaranteed to be the same. And not in a billion years will anyone make me belive that BH is scum. Period. I will present my read on Keir close to deadline.Keir, my main problem right now is that the role PM Mrz posted is substantially different from yours, WBG, and all the other ones 1) the highlighting 2) That their pm said the other is town That, combined with the fact that I don't think there are 4 masons. So I would have to think that BH and MrZ are scum then. I just don't see it. | ||
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On December 06 2012 02:11 debears wrote: What? Wait Laser why Keir???? | ||
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[QUOTE]On December 06 2012 02:23 Lazermonkey wrote: [QUOTE]On December 06 2012 02:11 debears wrote: Wait Laser why Keir????[/QUOTE]What? [/QUOTE] You said present ur read on keir Like do you mean scumread?[/QUOTEI don't want to reveal that right now as I feel it might get scum valuable info on getting the best kill. I will say all my reads close to deadline. | ||
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On December 06 2012 03:27 Lazermonkey wrote: I don't want to reveal that right now as I feel it might get scum valuable info on getting the best kill. I will say all my reads close to deadline. | ||
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On December 06 2012 02:59 debears wrote: I don't want to reveal that right now as I feel it might get scum valuable info on getting the best kill. I will say all my reads close to deadline.You said present ur read on keir Like do you mean scumread? | ||
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Lazermonkey
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MrZentor/BH/DYH - town. The end. ShiaoPi - scum for obvious reasons. Kill with fire PLZ. Keir - While I think it's absolutely crazy that we would have 2 mason pair, where one of them are autoconfirmed to each other, I don't think we can hold such things against someone. You should vote because you find a person scummy, NOT because you find it wierd that there are too many masons(or any other role for that matter). This is especially relevant because we are in a closed setup. So, I don't actually find Keirs play scummy. His interactions with WBG during the lynch feelt geniune and town. I also think the way he pushed BH earlier was stupid in a way but it was something a scum probebly never should ever dare to do. Another, albeit somewhat WIFOMy, is the fact that I don't think scum Keir would put down SO much effort in trying to save WBG. Xata - I'm starting to reconsider my earlier town read on him. I don't like is the fact that he hasn't truly put down his foot and said ''I really think this guy is scum, we should lynch him'' yet. Yes, I know that this is basically did just this with ShiaoPi but bear in mind that he is probebly dead no matter what and that this could very well be a buss attempt from his side. Just look through his filter if you don't get what I mean. I will probebly look more into this during the day tho. Austin - I think he is quite town except for the fact that his interactions with ShiaoPi have indeed been strange as hell. Haven't looked too much into him tho, will probebly do a deeper analysis later. Debears - Probebly town. Sandroba - I haven't done very much analysis on him either. However one of his posts earlier today caught my attention a bit. On December 05 2012 21:28 sandroba wrote: Remember that Sandrobawas not present during the lynch. Not even close, He basically went afk about 12 hours before it. Also, he doesn't actually comment on anything regarding the lynch. Just that it's bad. Saying stuff like this risk to demoralize town. So why would someone as town say this? I really don't see the motivation for it. Not really lych worthy but still. I will look more closely into sandroba later.wow. you guys. really. you make me sad. | ||
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You didn't claim. You didn't make a case on him. I don't agree with the fact that you did the above points. I don't agree with that you chose to try to question sandroba. However me disagreeing heavily with you doesn't necesarily make you scum. However, the way question sandroba is so incredibly weak. After the night, you post 3 posts asking him questions. Also, during this period of time you claim to have a town read on sandroba. How does this encourage him giving out reads? Had you said that you were leaning scum/null then sandroba would be forced to convince you that he is in fact town, thus increasing the chance for him to give out his reads. Also, as a response to this post of deabears. On December 06 2012 10:00 debears wrote: This way is thinking would be good if the probebility of Sandro and Austin being scum would be equal to each other. However, I think scum Austin are far more likely.Ok here are my thoughts on the situation 1. Austin lying and we lynch him: We get a scum Sandro most likely confirmed town 2. Austin telling the truth and we lynch him: We lost our watcher Sandro scum confirmed 3. Austin lying and we lynch Sandro: Austin confirmed scum We lose an inactive townie 4. Austin telling the truth and we lynch Sandro: We get a scum Austin most likely watcher Results in which we kill scum first attempt: 1,4 Results in which we get confirmed scum as other after killing a townie: 2,3 So I think the question is which out of 2 or 3 is more favorable for town? The answer is 3 Austin has been active, he has made reads. If he is the watcher it gives the mafia someone to kill as priority Sandro has not been active. He has not made much in terms of read. Scum wouldn't be inclined to nk him quickly Based on the above, from a purely neutral view, lynching sandro is the better choice based purely on how much we lose if austin is telling the truth and we lynch him first. I will ponder the claim and how austin acted n2. But I would like to share this. As of now I would rather lynch Sandro first ##Vote Austinmcc | ||
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Lazermonkey
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Also, I'm not sure which games you mean, but I usually don't look into meta very much, and if I do, it's usually never a mayor part of my read against someone. But I can check I guess. Regarding Sandroba, no I haven't looked into him. As a matter of fact, I haven't looked into anyone today because I was really busy IRL. Will probebly be able to do that tomorrow. I did have a slight scum read on him, yes. But I didn't feel like pushing his lynch would be very beneficial because my scum reads on other players were much stronger. Regarding my reads comming in late, that's what I always do. I feel like talking too much about reads during the night will help scum getting the best possible shot off. | ||
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On December 07 2012 05:24 Keirathi wrote: Well, your point is wrong. You're missing the point I was trying to make. If Austin was scum and wanted to fake claim to get sandro lynched, it would have made infinitely more sense to claim after the day post and say sandro killed DYH night 2. The problem is that if Austin is town and had a red check yesterday...well pretty much anything else would have made infinitely more sense than what he actually did. I don't know how to decide if his play was terrible scum or terrible town. There is no fucking way in hell he would get away watching anyone but Marv N1. The fact that you even try to use arguments like this makes me wonder if you actually are town. | ||
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On December 07 2012 06:02 austinmcc wrote: My bad then. But how would you claiming D3 after seeing DYH get killed make you look any better? You are missing the point. It's not that I would have claimed to watch someone else N1. It's that I could have claimed at the start of D3 to have watched DYH N2, and seen Sandroba kill him. Nobody is talking about watching other targets N1. | ||
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On December 07 2012 06:01 austinmcc wrote: This should read ''Austin, I explained why I think your TOWN play is very suboptimal in my post quite clear.'' : /. Sorry if that tricked you. I said that you made ALOT of errors in your play town, if you would be town. But the only errors that comes in mind if you are scum is that the timing of the claim is a bit peciliar. But that comes down to WIFOM abit and I also don't know what roles scum have so I don't think it's a very strong point. I cannot be more precise than this tbh.Where is the difference? If I'm claiming watcher with a red check on Sandroba, whether real or fake, and I'm behaving in a way that doesn't match up with my claim, why is the town claim less optimal? You haven't actually said that. You said said it wouldn't be optimal scum play, and gave reasons why it would be bad town play. But you didn't explain why you think one is for some reason less optimal than the other. Why is it slightly bad as scum but super duper bad as town? You may want to look into the other lynch candidate today before voting. It would probably be a good idea to actually vote based on both of us, no? Beyond that, what do you think about Xatalos right now? Yes, and I will, like I said. But the amount of time I'm able to play today is quite limited so I decided to focus on you as I felt his alignment comes naturaly after I was able to decide yours. My read on Xata is unchanged. I haven't observed him today. | ||
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Good night. | ||
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I get slight scum vibes from some parts of his filter. Like the post I mentioned earlier or the fact that he basically went ''Austin scum KKTHXBAI'' when you claimed kill check on him. I also think his filter is WAY too small given the time this game has taken. About 60% of his posts are in fact one liners. While posting very little can just be a trait of a lazy town, I still don't like it. Yes, I must agree with that Sandroba has far from convinced me that he is town. In fact, had it not been for your claim, he might've been my second or third scum read for today. But given that you and him CANNOT have the same alignment(at least you cannot both be town and I'm okay with lynching you if he is bussing you nonetheless...), I simply think It's far more likely for you to be scum than for him to be. | ||
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On December 07 2012 23:55 austinmcc wrote: I'm not sure what your point is. This basically all boils down to that I was suspcious of Sandroba and yet I am voting you but guess what? You cannot both be town and I find you more likely to be scum. If you are voting me, you are placing you vote with lazermonkey's. Lazermonkey who said N2 he hadn't done much analysis on Sandroba, and had problems with one of Sand's posts coming from town - + Show Spoiler + On December 06 2012 07:59 Lazermonkey wrote: Sandroba - I haven't done very much analysis on him either. However one of his posts earlier today caught my attention a bit. Remember that Sandrobawas not present during the lynch. Not even close, He basically went afk about 12 hours before it. Also, he doesn't actually comment on anything regarding the lynch. Just that it's bad. Saying stuff like this risk to demoralize town. So why would someone as town say this? I really don't see the motivation for it. Not really lych worthy but still. I will look more closely into sandroba later. Lazermonkey who drops a vote on me. Lazermonkey who admits that he hasn't looked at Sandroba (despite voting to lynch me), but will have lots of time today! + Show Spoiler + On December 07 2012 05:56 Lazermonkey wrote: Regarding Sandroba, no I haven't looked into him. As a matter of fact, I haven't looked into anyone today because I was really busy IRL. Will probebly be able to do that tomorrow. I did have a slight scum read on him, yes. But I didn't feel like pushing his lynch would be very beneficial because my scum reads on other players were much stronger. This is the company you're keeping. | ||
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On December 08 2012 01:23 ShiaoPi wrote: I get the impression that ShiaoPi has in fact given up trying to convince us that his town instead trying to convince us that he is too stupid to be scum...Can you pkease switch off austin??? Seriously he is town as fuck. Get over the fact that ge did not crumb and pkay the way you would play tracker. | ||
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On December 08 2012 02:09 debears wrote: I have had him as scum since D1Wait what? What's your read on shiaopi? scum or town? | ||
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On December 08 2012 02:07 debears wrote: Like I said, the way Austin played with his scum check makes very little sense to me if he were to be town. Is he however scum it makes quite alot of sense. Trading 1 on 1 with someone most players had a town read on, especially since there were quite a few persons claiming to have a town read on Sandroba seems like a quuite good idea also.Why is it more likely because of the claim? If you believed before the claim that austin was not too scummy, then you believe that his actions through the whole game have had some sort of town motivation. So, now that he claimed, you disregard his actions through the whole game based on the fact that him and sandroba can't both be town, especially when you believe sandroba's posting has scum motivation in it? I'm not understanding this thought Yes, I am not voting him because of his play in the past. I did think his interaction with ShiaoPi were abit scummy but not lynchable really. The reason why I want him dead is indeed the way he used his check. | ||
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On December 08 2012 02:37 debears wrote: So what happens if 1) Austin flips watcher or 2) Austin flips scum? What's your read on ShiaoPi in both situations? 1.He is scum 2.he is scum I don't see why it would change anything. His interactions with Sandroba have been so insanely silly today. | ||
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On December 08 2012 02:28 ShiaoPi wrote: ¿Qué?Thats ehst I have been trying to say all day, they dont lisren... Also lazer, you shoild learn to read | ||
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On December 08 2012 02:10 austinmcc wrote: Well, I vote you with about 30 hours left to lynch so I had alot of time to reconsider. Also, I did look into Sandroba today, so what are you smoking?My point there is that from your conduct today, I think that you're probably mafia. You're up at the top of my list now. My problem with not checking Sandroba is...well, it's partially shown again by your comment here. (1) You say you're going to check dude x (2) Dude x and dude y are lynch candidates the next day. Serious lynch candidate, vote is x or y (3) You vote dude y, without even checking dude x, who you were going to check anyway and were suspicious of (4) "you cannot both be town and I find you more likely to be scum" --> You admitted that you didn't go check up on Sandroba when you voted me. You "find me more likely to be scum," yet you didn't even look at the other candidate. Silliness. Scumminess. | ||
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Scum stuff: http://www.quicktopic.com/48/H/tdiAiTVe45p | ||
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