EPTWhen WBG flips town (and he WILL flip town), we just have to not WIFOM ourselves out of a BH/MrZ lynch tomorrow.
Don't let him weasel into town cred two days in a row.
Paranoia Mafia - Page 7
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
When WBG flips town (and he WILL flip town), we just have to not WIFOM ourselves out of a BH/MrZ lynch tomorrow. Don't let him weasel into town cred two days in a row. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On December 05 2012 07:54 MrZentor wrote: says the person who thinks BH is scum LOL I gave damn good reasons for why BH is scum. He never even fucking refuted them, he just started yelling "BUT I SAVED DYH SO I MUST BE TOWN, GOD YOU'RE DUMB KEIR". | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On December 05 2012 07:57 Lazermonkey wrote: Not only that but his mason partner also counter claimed in a position where there would make 0% for scum to do so. What IF he's scum though? He's going to ride your free town cred all the way to a win. Then you're going to look at this game in hindsight and say "god I'm an idiot." Maybe you'll learn a lesson though, so there is that. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On December 05 2012 07:58 Blazinghand wrote: I like how everything I do this game makes 0% sense for scum to do and Keirathi still thinks i'm scum. nice. How come you never responded to my meta case? Remember how you bitched at DP because of him not responding to YOUR meta case? If it was so false, it should be easy to refute, yes? | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
Be back tomorrow after I've had time to not be angry at the idiots in this town. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
Where? Quote me the post. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
Don't be stupid. If you believe that BH is a mason, then you have to believe that he wasn't lying about his role PM that said he and MrZ were confirmed town to each other. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On December 05 2012 11:07 austinmcc wrote: This is true...but would leave you as mafia. Which would leave you as mafia saying you were mafia. Because the other alternative is FOUR MASONS IN A 15 PLAYER GAME Yes, his role PM said MrZ was town. The host, however, tells me the setup is closed, not to trust anyone, and that everyone (including BH) is lying scumI don't...I don't think we're in a bastard-modded game though, and so it seems farfetched that the PM itself is a lie. BH, that is absolutely positively the PM that you received? It's odd to me that BH, almost certainly town, received a PM that says MrZ, his mason buddy, was town. But WBG, who was town, had a mason PM that does NOT say his mason buddy is town. Keirathi, do you have logs between you and WBG? I guess you're right, I shouldn't be stupid...and should think that you're more likely than BH or MrZ to be scum? Seriously...FOUR TOWN MASONS? That's silly. How the fuck to even respond to such pants-on-head retarded theories? Why did I, as scum masoned with WBG, claim the masonry to TRY TO SAVE HIM? Why did I spend so much time during the day defending him if I knew I was scum and that he was town? I could have just AFK'd the day out and let him die, never claimed the Mason, and people would have just been asking who the hell his partner was for the rest of the game. I seriously have no fucking clue what you're thinking here. "Keir has played like he's town. WBG flipped town mason. But Keir might be scum, guys!" As to the bolded part: what if....*GASP*...BH is lying about the PM? | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
You said yourself that my play has been townie. Yet the ONLY reason you're suspicious of me is because you don't think there can be 4 masons. Instead, you think that I could potentially be scum, despite my mason partner flipping town, when the other mason pair has MOD CONFIRMED DIFFERENT ROLE PMs. Not just flavor. Completely worded differently. And one of those masons MADE A CASE AGAINST HIS OWN MASON PARTNER, and isn't playing to his town meta AT ALL. Maybe you don't think BH/MrZ would link themselves like that as scum. Fine, we disagree, and I can yell at you in post-game if I'm right. But to actively think that I am scum is just so preposterous despite all the evidence to the contrary on some blind faith that "scum would never do that!"; I literally can't fathom it. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
We just talked on irc. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
We've pushed/attacked/defended the same targets, which are the only people we've talked a ton about. I don't see what benefit sharing them would be at this point. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On December 06 2012 07:40 austinmcc wrote: I'd like to see what WBG said. I'd like to be able to make up my mind on you. IF you're town, you should be seeing yourself as a possible target tonight, and trying to get information into thread. If you don't share, and scum kills you 20 minutes from now, we just lost those logs. There's nothing in them though, aside from talking about why we thought LM and Sandro were town on night 1 (both of which we talked about in thread). But fine. Some completely irrelevent logs: http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=QBRLPK9B Re: the spreadsheet (which I was going to share anyways), its public, but it hasn't been changed at all since the middle of night 1. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
BH/MrZ town. Still town on debears and sandro. Still scum on ShiaoPi/austin. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
AND said this: On December 04 2012 05:05 austinmcc wrote: (1) We all know that WBG raged at his team, went afk in fountain with Exort invoker, and stole all those kills/assists with Suntrike. (2) I'd like to hear more from you concering folks that aren't ShiaoPi or VE. I got not problem with you sitting back D1, but short of other claims it looks like you or sandro or DYH would be the likely mafia targets tonight. For instance, you wanted to pressure these folks: I haven't played with MrZ. I know he has a bit of a reputation. I've found him pretty clear and logical this whole game. Does that strike you as odd, or do you have a problem with that? Or does it make you think he's town? Do you still want to pressure him? Zealos hasn't posted since partway through D1. You brought him up a little in relation to VE, but what do you make of his actual posts. I didn't like them D1 when talking to LazerMonkey, BH found them townie, but you haven't said anything about the actual posts that he did make, which is all we have to go off of. You had a confirmed scum check but still assumed that sandro would be shot by scum? No deal. ##Vote: austinmcc | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On December 06 2012 08:09 austinmcc wrote: Yup. I had a confirmed scum check. You KNOW someone is scum, 100%. But town is in an okay spot and doesn't NEED a scum lynch D2 to survive, and you think one of the top lynch candidates looks scum + is being defended by the guy you know is scum + the guy you know is scum is attacking the only other candidate. Do you think it's actually ridiculous to try and milk information out of scum in that situation? I want Sandro to take stances, to give thoughts (you'll note there isn't very much of that beyond the lynch post we all (including me) kind of liked). I'd like to be able to look back after lynching him D3, and maybe finding another scum N2, to be able to try and get some associative juju going. Yes, it is ridiculous. If you have a scum check on someone, you push that as hard as you can. If it doesn't work, then it doesn't work, and you start looking for associations from the people keeping it from working. You do NOT, under any circumstances, think that that person would be shot by mafia. What's your explanation for that, since you dodged that part of my argument? | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On December 06 2012 09:45 debears wrote: Wait 2 confirmed townies? huh??? we trade sandro for austin if austin is scum if austin is watcher we get scum for free He means NK's too. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On December 06 2012 09:32 austinmcc wrote: Yeah, it should be. I didn't crumb the risk/Gonzaw PM in bureaucracy either. I crumbed the hell out of being mason with Sciberbia in Can't Believe. But that's the only thing I've crumbed ever I believe. What I'd say is this - look at Sandroba's posts. Look at his N1, his N2. I probably cannot drop my confirmation bias, and I don't want to just yell my head off for 40 something hours today. But I believe that some of his posts that look like they have content don't, they're full of "reads" that aren't actually based on anything. A lot of the other posts don't have content at all. Your confirmation bias? Confirmation bias comes from not being sure about something but convincing yourself anyways, not from having a 95%+ guaranteed scum check. Here's part of my problem (aside from the fact that you had a red check and didn't do anything about it): your WBG/ShiaoPi analysis doesn't fit with what sandro did in Chrono before he died. "I wouldn't trust Toad as party leader", and calling Dieno town, etc. And him not giving strong reasoning for his reads isn't alignment telling at all (hell, didn't you play with him in Looney where he did basically the same thing?) | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On December 06 2012 10:10 austinmcc wrote: I can't tell you whether Sandro is playing to this meta or that meta. I can tell you he's scum. Then, I can pressure Xatalos for saying things about Sandroba that I personally don't find to be true. Right now, I don't care what Sandroba normally does as town or scum, because I know his alignment. I care what Xatalos thinks about Sandroba, because it's telling of Xatalos's alignment. Also yes, I played in Looney Lynching. And in Looney Lynching I actually DIDN'T lynch Sandroba D1. Do you know what I did do? I had a blue role, I was a veteran. And I decided to give away votes on D1 (everyone thought I was retarded) and be coy about my claim on the day I was lynched (people lynched me anyway). That's the only time I've ever been lynched, and it was because I'm a 'tard when blue. That's beside the point though. Sandroba is scum. Xatalos has some odd thoughts on him. I like investigating that. Again, you're completely missing the point of what I'm trying to say. Your actions during the day yesterday just don't line up with what a person with a scum check would do, IMO. So if you're an information role and have a scum check on someone, you really have 3 options: 1) Claim to get them lynched. Fine, you didn't want to do that. 2) Push as hard as you can for that person to get lynched without claiming. Make a case. Make a meta case. Do whatever you can to get SOMEONE to think that person is scum. Maybe it works, maybe it doesn't, but you still have the claim to fall back on later. 3) Think you have zero chance of getting the person lynched without claiming, so you engage that person, and try to get them to slip up, and make some associative cases for when you do decide to claim. Which is what you said you were doing. But, if you have a scum check on someone and don't think you can push them to a lynch, why in the world wouldn't you go back and look at some scum games of that person to see what they tend to say about their teammates? Why would just assume that "sando saying WBG is town means that WBG is scum, and sandro pushing ShiaoPi means ShiaoPi is town"? Would you assume the same thing if that scum check was on marv, who has a history of bussing 'liability' teammates who are likely to get lynched anyways? You put no effort into doing anything that can be seen by me as even remotely pushing a town agenda towards a scum scum check. THAT'S my problem | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On December 06 2012 12:21 austinmcc wrote: I know there will be postgame discussion on this. I may well be in the wrong. But I think I'm willing to argue there's a fourth option: (4) Know a dude is scum, make sure you don't ever die without telling town, and try to use that knowledge to hunt MORE scum, not just the guy you know. Did it work? NOT PARTICULARLY WELL. But I don't think it's too farfetched to argue that if you know someone is scum, when he wants to lynch A and defends B, there's a decent chance that B is scum and A is not. Or at least that A is not. I believe I'm an idiot for taking it into account as much as I did, but I don't see it as not being something to use. Your 4th option is the same thing as the third option. You're playing the "long game" because you ddin't think you could get sandro lynched. And you're right, it's not out-of-this-world-unheard of for a scum to attack a townie and defend a scum partner (hell, attacking townies is what scum have to do to win a game), but its a fucking ridiculous assumption to assume that every person that a scum targets is town and everyone they defend is scum. And again: why didn't you do ANY kind of research into the matter? Maybe sandro loves to bus as scum every single game. Don't you think that would have affected your reads at all, if you wanted to play the "long game"? That's the part I don't get. Nothing you did matches up with what I would expect a reasonable person with a scum check to do. And I don't think you're an idiot in general, so that just leaves you lying and getting caught with your pants down. | ||
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