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On December 03 2012 21:59 kitaman27 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2012 21:56 Acrofales wrote:Additionally, from the OP: 1999 AD is inaccessible to travel. @Kita: I find it amazing you would believe SnB regardless of the result. However, as it stands, Syllo says he visited Djodref. I vote we lynch SnB and if he flips scum, we lynch Kita after. Are you kidding me? I'm the one forcing S&B to commit to a check in the thread. Who says I'm believing a word he says. You do realize that I directed him to a source which he can't do damage to if phagga is truthful? Oh, right, you're not town. Nevermind.
Oh, I thought your directing him to Phagga was quite clever and was actually going to mention it at the time when everybody was bitching about how it was stupid and he should've checked H1 or GK, which really would have been stupid. However, I realized that mentioning that would kinda ruin the potential of the gambit.
Nevertheless, it's your follow-up that I take offense to.
On December 03 2012 21:24 kitaman27 wrote:Good news  Phagga, if you're not golem, would you mind revealing your actual role name? The reason I asked S&B to commit to checking you is because I couldn't come up with anything else that matches the flavor. Still waiting for VE to reveal the reasoning for his night action.
I thought the "good news" was Phagga claiming to take no damage, implying you believed something about SnB's claim. If that's not what you meant, what is the good news?
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On December 03 2012 15:44 Hapahauli wrote:
Night 5 - Flame Resistant Coating on nl_clarity, but roleblocked
Prom, were you notified your seed was activated on N5?
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Oh shit, nvm. Syllo RB'd Hapa before he coud do that.
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Why is this town filled with idiots who are adding pointless posts to the thread claiming stuff that serves absolutely no town purpose in being claimed?
Who the fuck cares if your ability is a misspelled Proximity Bomb? Now scum knows that you have some kind of PGO ability. Good job, Einstein.
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Why bother? I was gonna decide which of risk and SnB should be lynched today, but then SnB got caught with his hand in the cookie jar. Risk.nuke can go back into lurking for the next 72 hours or so. He might jump back out for the odd omgus when someone calls him out for lurking and non-contributing.
My opinion n time travel: lets go somewhere or most townie people get advantages. So far Keir as claimed 600 AD. Adam wants the future, but his ability sounds luck-based. Anybody else get bonuses in a specifc time?
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@Phagga: while your ability seems to check out: you took 75 damage N5 and dealt 75 damage N6, does your copy tell you the name of the ability? If so, can you tell us what it was called?
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On December 04 2012 04:45 phagga wrote:
I am not good with that bussing stuff. Who would have been the target of the bus? There would have been two targets, right? The person to buss and the destination person?
Bus driver changes everything that happens to person A with what happens to person B and vice versa.
Therefore, SnB is claiming that there is an unknown person who was targeting Djodreff with KP, who instead got roleblocked by Syllo instead of SnB. Nothing was targeting the other person, so SnB got off clear.
It is a pretty damned mundane use of a bus. I certainly wouldn't bus scum with a scumspect townie unless I was expecting DTs... and the only DTs in this game who have so far given info are TC, who has no more gold and myself, a 3P who had a 1-shot.
So... that leaves me without a good protective reason for bussing SnB and only the setting-him-up part is left.
Compare this with such things as using the bus on someone like Oatsmaster or Clarity who could expect to get healed and a scum on the other side, or bussing damage from a townie (or scum) likely to get hit by vigis, such as CJ or GoodKarma, onto somewhere it actually matters to scum (like Oatsmaster or Clarity).
The most likely explanation is SnB is scum, he targeted Djodref instead of Phagga and is now trying to bullshit his way out of it.
Oh, add that to some setup speculation: Greymist stated in the "mafia mechanics bot thing" thread that he deals with roleblocks before busses. This is the standard way of doing it, btw, because if you do roleblocks AFTER busses you can get some really paradoxical situations.
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Dug it up for you guys. Note that the date is after this game had started:
On November 27 2012 01:12 GreYMisT wrote:
In my games I have always resolved actions (even the complicated ones) in the following way:
Roleblockers occur first
Busdrivers/redirection
Everything else.
All actions within each tier occur at the same time
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This would have left some room for error if SnB had claimed Phagga had been bussed with Djodref, but SnB claims he wasn't roleblocked.
Is this where we post Samuel L Jackson pictures?
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On December 04 2012 05:25 CaveJohnson wrote:
Exceptions can always be made Acro
Not really. If you allow bus drivers to operate first, then you can get the weird situation where:
A drives his bus from A to B.
C roleblocks B, resulting in A being roleblocked.
Now what?
You can really only resolve this in one way: nobody is roleblocked. B can't be roleblocked, because he was bussed with A. A can't be roleblocked because he already performed his action (and if you roleblock A then massive time paradoxes happen).
However, this means that bus drivers are immune to roleblocks, which makes an incredibly powerful role even MORE powerful. Not gonna happen.
So, roleblocks HAVE to happen before bus drivers in order for there to be any kind of balance.
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On December 04 2012 05:43 phagga wrote:
Ok, the main reason I am asking this is because if I was targeted in any way with the buss, I should have gotten a bussing night action, which I do not. But as I understand it, Theoratically snb could have been bussed to djo (though I agree that it makes no sense).
What makes you think bus targets are notified?
Honestly, the normal MO is for them not to be.
Theoretically also not. I admit that bus drivers are not an easy role to understand, but Djo is one of the few people who we know could not have been on the receiving end of a bus with SnB, assuming Syllo targeted SnB. He had no spells left and would thus not have been able to target himself.
@Everybody: why are we going to the end of time on the word of Drazerk? It's retarded. His reasoning so far has been:
On December 03 2012 09:19 CaveJohnson wrote:
If we go to the end of time we can learn magic. However he did flip scum so it might not happen but it is our best bet to get additional powers.
On December 03 2012 09:37 CaveJohnson wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2012 09:31 Clarity_nl wrote:
I think that's overthinking it and we should probably focus on people who are stronger in certain time periods, e.g. Keirathi in 600AD (or so he claims) Another advantage for the end of time then - Its neutral ground since we've killed off one of its only residences. Equal playing field where we can't be surprised by interesting scum abilities.
On December 04 2012 02:17 CaveJohnson wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 02:04 goodkarma wrote:Did it occur to everyone that we already killed the Master of War (Spekkio)??? As such, I don't get what we're hoping to achieve at the End of Time. Further: GreyMist has shown over and over again this game that just about anything can be thrown at us at his whim. Feel free to hope for one result (such as new magic abilities), but FULLY EXPECT you'll get another... The ONLY THING related to times that we know about right now is that some characters have a bonus in certain times. With the very very likely scum flip this cycle, I don't see anything too worrisome about matching up a time period with characters who have admitted having a bonus in that time + Show Spoiler +(or even who just happen to be from that time period) . I mean, unless this game is wildly different from a normal game setup there's going to only be 2 (maybe three) scum left. We've eliminated half their team. And we already know their KP isn't that amazing given how much trouble they've had killing even a single townie each cycle... So I'm not terribly worried if we pre-plan accordingly a party even if some of them become higher priority targets. I highly doubt that scum will be able to fully negate the additional ability advantage we will gain from such a play. Looking at the spreadsheet, and the already claimed abilities, the time period that will most likely benefit us most is the Middle Ages (600AD). As such: ##Epoch: Middle Ages (600AD) Neutral ground is better than shaky ground. 600AD is probably the scariest place to be as far as possible scum abilities go.
This is making me uneasy: I want to go anywhere Drazerk does not want to go. I don't think he has town interests and I don't think anybody following his reasoning is thinking straight. I don't care where we go, but Drazerk pushing for the End of Time is giving me juju feelings.
600AD gives Keirathi powers. Sounds good to me. Hell, the future gives Adam powers. Sounds good to me too. End of Time gives nobody powers (not Sandroba either, judging by his role pm). Lets not help Drazerk with whatever nefarious schemes he has. I don't trust him and anybody trusting Drazerk at any point in a game like this is a blithering idiot. I learned my lesson in HRM.
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I didn't want you in the party when we couldn't be sure people would survive the party and your hidden modifier screwed that up. Anyway, I thought you got bonuses for being in 600 AD period. If you think it's pointless to go to 600 AD lets not. Lets just think about the End of Time deal which is basically Drazerk's little pet project. And Drazerks pet projects are terrible ideas to get involved in.
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@Drazerk. Your "logic" already failed. Cycle 4 was at the end of time and was an event. Fail logic is fail. Why end of time?
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On December 04 2012 17:15 CaveJohnson wrote:Show nested quote +On December 04 2012 10:08 Acrofales wrote:
@Drazerk. Your "logic" already failed. Cycle 4 was at the end of time and was an event. Fail logic is fail. Why end of time? Picking a party for another time's event isn't really an event in EoT.
That way you can rationalize everything. We were in EoT and had to pick a party.
On December 04 2012 12:58 Hopeless1der wrote:
<snip>
Regarding spite towards draz:
As you say, its 'weird' not scummy. I see it as spite towards draz for no other reason than that he's draz. That's an argument for vigging him down, not deciding where to epoch ourselves to, and that's why I have a problem with it. We weren't considering the merits of the EoT, we were considering the merits of not giving draz what he wanted. In any case, I have my own selfish reasons for going to 600AD. I'm not particularly expectant, as my role pm doesn't explicitly allude towards anything, but what the hell, right?
K I'm going to bed. 'Nite.
What the hell H1? You are fine with shooting Drazerk in the face, but want to listen to his advice?! Do you think Drazerk is town? If so, why do you want to shoot him in the face? Do you think Drazerk is scum? If so, why do you want to listen to his advice?
Anyway, my main argument is not even that it's Drazerk, it's that it's Drazerk arguing something that doesn't make any ingame sense. While EoT is a safe zone in Chrono Trigger there is no guarantee that it is in the mafia game as well. In fact, Drazerk puts forward that all Greymist can think up for us if we hang in EoT is lynches, which is clearly false given what already happened in the game.
In other words, it is Drazerk making up bullshit arguments... and Drazerk making up bullshit arguments is something to mistrust to the extreme. I can make up similarly speculative arguments:
Random speculation 1: If this game follows Chrono Trigger, then Crono is going to get himself killed in this mission. Next stop is to replace real chrono with fake chrono, for which we need to travel to the future! Alternatively we skip this part and go straight to 600 AD to kill Ozzie.
Random speculation 2: If you try to kill Lavos at any point in the game before you've killed all the other bad guys, he is pretty much unbeatable. We should therefore travel to all the time zones to take out the bad monsters before we can successfully take on Lavos.
The point is: we have NO clue how this game is going to work and what we need to defeat Lavos. Drazerk implying he knows more makes me very suspicious of him and his motives.
Note: I still don't give a crap where we go. I am fairly certain I can fulfill my secondary wincon pretty soon and it is not dependent on the time zone. I just seem to be the only one who has played with Drazerk before and you deserve the warning: sheep Drazerk at your own peril.
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Lets get some momentum for something other than EoT. Gooooo 600AD!
##Epoch: Middle Ages
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People claimed from the middle ages:
H1: suspects he gets bonuses in this era
Keirathi: gets bonus for being in a party in middle ages
GK: no known bonuses
People from the future:
Oatsmaster: small bonus in 2300AD
Adam: doubles his vig shot damage if he manages to hit with it
Present:
Iamperfection: might get an upgrade if in a successful team (is the era important?)
risk.nuke: no bonuses claimed
CJ: no bonuses claimed
Hapa: no known bonus
Antiquity:
Promethelax: no bonuses claimed
That's it for era-based bonuses claimed so far.
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On December 05 2012 01:23 phagga wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 01:20 goodkarma wrote:On December 05 2012 01:10 phagga wrote:On December 05 2012 00:40 goodkarma wrote:So just briefly: On December 03 2012 20:33 phagga wrote:
@risk.nuke I also still would like to know what you think of hapa.
Regarding SnB: Having two damaging abilities, him visiting Djo who is in the party is damning in any case. However, I am also confident in my scum read on Goodkarma, so I am happy to lynch either of them. For now, my vote stays on GK. Your vote post is pretty funny. Because it basically says, "I'd rather lynch my favorite scum read over a sure scum." The scum motivation here is apparent: trying to set up a counterwagon to prevent the snb lynch. Btw, from where do you know that SnB is sure scum? All I know is that his behaviour was extremely anti-town, hence the lynch. But town does not know his alignement yet. SnB was caught in a lie when syllo found he targeted Djo, he made a very implausible story about being bussed, and then posted this: On December 04 2012 20:11 strongandbig wrote:
##lynch cavejohnson
##epoch 1999
Lets get this shit over with yo
Both of these things are gonna happen eventually might as well do them now So yeah, strongandbig is scum. Perhaps a better question is: how can you in any way think at this point strong could be town? There we go again. I am so sick of this. you always turning around my words to create meanings that were not there. Where is the town motivation in that? In case you have not noticed yet, there are other alignements besides town and scum. Now leave me the fuck alone.
What the hell is this. I know you two are having a happy little tunnelfest at each other, but how can you think SnB is anything other than scum? If he were a survivor caught in this kind of a bind, he would be claiming and yelling at the top of his lungs not to lynch him.
Instead he as much as admitted to being scum by posting a joke vote (more on that when SnB actually flips) and contributing as little as possible to the thread.
He is behaving as scum caught with his hands in the cookie jar, which is exactly what he is.
Sure, there is nothing that conclusively links him to the scumteam so far, allowing him to be an SK or a member of a second scumteam, but there is no doubt in my mind that he is a non-town-aligned baddy.
I am unclear on why you are making excuses for him. The easiest way to make sense of this is if you are scum and SnB is not on your scumteam. More information will be had after the flip.
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On December 05 2012 01:32 phagga wrote:Show nested quote +On December 05 2012 01:29 Keirathi wrote:
How was he twisting your words in that post? He was asking a legit question: do you think there's any way s&b can be town? If so, why? No. But there are third parties out there. There may even be a second scum faction that we know nothing about yet (although it seems unlikely). Going to say that snb is sure scum just seems wrong in that context. We don't know what alignement snb has except that it is very unlikely town.
It is strange you bring this up with regards to SnB, yet never mentioned anything like it with Toad. Why were you sure Toad was scum, yet are now bringing up 3P and second scumteams that we have NO evidence of (note, I made the previous post prematurely and hadn't read the rest of the discussion yet).
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On December 05 2012 03:18 Clarity_nl wrote:
There have barely been any damage claims other than me and oats taking damage from the mission. Makes me think scum is stacking to kill someone this cycle. Protective roles should keep this in mind
It's possible the damage to you came from wrong choices in the fiendlord's keep. However, it is also possible scum targeted you two (and Djodref). We don't have enough information to say whether scum is saving KP or what is going on. Also, Syllo roleblocked 250 damage from SnB.
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On December 05 2012 04:37 TheChronicler wrote:
EBWOP: Hmm, we have to vote for an epoch, too? Looking through it doesn't look like there's a consensus anywhere. I'll vote for the time period I'm from. AD1000
Do you get a bonus there?
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EPT
