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On November 27 2012 13:49 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2012 13:37 Hapahauli wrote:On November 27 2012 13:34 Keirathi wrote:On November 27 2012 13:31 Hapahauli wrote:On November 27 2012 13:27 Keirathi wrote:On November 27 2012 13:25 Hapahauli wrote:On November 27 2012 13:22 Keirathi wrote:
TC has a parity check on Acro and Hopeless. They are different alignments. Ohhhh. So Hopeless is scum then. Well guess my last thing on him was quite wrong then. I'm pretty on the fence about which one of the two are scum. I mean, a case can definitely be made for Hopeless being scum. Hell, they HAVE been made. But I could make a case that Acro is scum too :o Not to mention the fact that TC checked Acro vs Hopeless is weird as fuck to begin with. Well the check makes sense given Hopeless's rather strange attitude toward Acro (and Z-Bo). Given the two, I'd take Acro as the townie in a heartbeat. There is of course the outside chance that there's a mafia-framer type ability somewhere, but thankfully all this is after we lynch Toad ofc. Yes, checking Hopeless makes sense. Checking him against someone who's still an "unknown" rather than against one of the near-confirmed town people is what doesn't make sense. Why not check him against, say, Dieno? And there are just too many weird things about Acro for me to ignore. Do tell. To me he seems pretty engaged with things. I don't know what he's capable of as scum, but his filter looks pretty townie at first glance. First, the whole One-Shot Role Cop with a red check on Toad, but doesn't claim it until AFTER TC comes in claiming a parity check with Toad being scum. One-Shot Cop with a red check is an insanely easy way to claim towncred, especially if your teammate has already been outed and likely to be lynched. I will admit that he could have just been thinking "oh, there's no lynch today, so no real reason to claim right now" if he was town and then only claimed he also had a red check on Toad because TC had already claimed. It's hard to determine which one is more likely though, so its a minor point, but I'm paranoid  Then, he refused to be put into the party yesterday. And refuses to explain why. I'm not the only one who thought that was fishy. Again, a minor point, but it makes me second guess my earlier town read, because I don't see much motivation for a person who knows that he is town to flat out refuse to be in the party, without giving some kind of explanation. And then, of course, the parity check. Like I said, none of the things in and of themselves are super strong points, but how many little "weird, logically improbable" things does it take before that person becomes scum?
Those are fair points. Especially the party thing - goes back to what I was running my candidacy on, being the lone scum in a pool of confirmed townies is pretty bad news. I'm really unsure about why Acro wouldn't claim his mechanic - generally it's pro-town to reveal those things (somewhat like a self-aware miller claim).
Well that's enough to sleep on I suppose. Acro, Prome, and Z-Bo are all on the to-do list for tomorrow.
Gnite!
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On November 27 2012 17:51 Clarity_nl wrote:
Hapa can you confirm that you took 100 damage last cycle, and 50 this cycle, please?
Confirmed. Toad claimed he hit me the first time. I'm not sure where the second bit came from.
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On November 27 2012 23:31 Clarity_nl wrote:I healed him this cycle and he didn't mention it. Show nested quote +On November 27 2012 23:12 Hapahauli wrote:On November 27 2012 17:51 Clarity_nl wrote:
Hapa can you confirm that you took 100 damage last cycle, and 50 this cycle, please? Confirmed. Toad claimed he hit me the first time. I'm not sure where the second bit came from. What do you think of that?
Oh thanks buddy <3
Though that just means I took more than 50 damage, which is certainly :sadface: but oh well.
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On November 27 2012 23:39 Clarity_nl wrote:
I asked the host if you still get notified of your heal or not, waiting for a response.
I'm all out of heals now though, guys, so you're on your own TT
Well if you indeed healed me, I only received 1 pm from the host tonight stating the damage I took (50). We'll wait for the hosts to confim things, but that's what happened on my end.
On November 27 2012 23:05 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2012 22:30 syllogism wrote:
I apologize if I've seemed hostile or arrogant. I do not have confidence in myself, but rather I honestly think the facts speak for themselves.
I did not expect having to argue against almost certain townies who also know that I'm town. I believe that some people are being obnoxiously dismissive of what I consider a reasonable argument. I'm struggling to understand why not only do people strongly disagree, but instead of letting the person in question defend himself they feel the need to make arguments for him. I may have somewhat overstated the case, but you should be asking Prom more questions instead of arguing with me. You do have a reasonable argument, although I think Hapa's is stronger. But you completely ignored my counter-argument of why I had been thinking Prom was town (granted, I said it to Hapa rather than you, but point still stands). I just don't see how the "facts" damn him to being scum. I see a possible scum explanation, and a possible town explanation, and I don't plan for this to turn into the "Shut up and sheep Syllo" show. It was like pulling teeth to even get you to explain to begin with. I'm not sure which direction I would lean on Prom right now. right now. Mostly null, I guess. But again for the millionth time, HE'S NOT A PRIORITY TARGET. WE HAVE TWO RED CHECKS TO DEAL WITH FIRST.
I think we all know that Toad needs to die first, as well as one of Acro/Hopeless. However, that doesn't mean we shouldn't be hunting for scum in the meantime. Just because we have a satisfying answer for the next lynch doesn't mean we should shut down our scumhunting efforts outside of them.
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On November 27 2012 23:42 iamperfection wrote:
which means hapa wasn't dmg cycle 1
I assure you I was. If you don't believe me, I claimed 100 damage pretty early on in the cycle and Toad mentioned he shot me as a "+EV shot" or something (before he was confirmed scum to the thread). So where's the theory here? That Toad and I are scumbuddies? That he didn't just shoot me in self-preservation after I was one of the few to press for his lynch D2?
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On November 27 2012 23:48 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On November 27 2012 23:47 Hapahauli wrote:On November 27 2012 23:42 iamperfection wrote:
which means hapa wasn't dmg cycle 1 I assure you I was. If you don't believe me, I claimed 100 damage pretty early on in the cycle and Toad mentioned he shot me as a "+EV shot" or something (before he was confirmed scum to the thread). So where's the theory here? That Toad and I are scumbuddies? That he didn't just shoot me in self-preservation after I was one of the few to press for his lynch D2? then why didn't you report my heal?
Because I didn't receive notification of a heal >>
So either
a) You didn't heal me (but I don't know why you'd lie about that)
b) I took more than 100 damage
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Oh 'doh sorry I keep mixing up my days.
I took 0 damage D1,
100 damage D2
50 damage D3
Forgot D1 existed for some reason >>
All I know is that I received a PM after Day 2 stating I took 100 damage
Then I received a PM after D3 stating I took 50.
I'm grateful that you guys healed me, but either I didn't receive the heal or I simply took a but-load of damage on those days. I'm thinking the latter.
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On November 28 2012 01:18 syllogism wrote:
I don't see why mafia would shoot you for massive damage on those two days, when their main priority should be eliminating semi-confirmed townies.
I can't believe you two were healing him anyway, but I perhaps he didn't believe it either. Hapa definitely shouldn't be on a team until this is sorted out.
Well both of those guys (clarity and iamp) have town reads on me, so the heals make sense from that perspective.
From what I understand:
Post-D1: I took 0 damage. Either iamp's claimed heal was completely wasted OR it nullified any damage directed towards me.
Post-D2: I took 100 damage. No one healed me (or no one has claimed so), and Toad claimed he shot me for 100.
Post-D3: I took 50 damage, and nl_clarity healed me for an undisclosed amount, indicating that I took more than 50 damage.
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^regarding my last post, from my view it seems to make sense with my play so far
Day 1, I wasn't particularly active as compared to my normal play as either allignment. This is consistent with me not getting shot or taking minimal damage.
Day 2, I was a tad more active and was one of the first votes on Toad. This is consistent with Toad wanting to eliminate me.
Day 3, I've been much more active, making cases on Hopeless and Promethelax. I could have been "rewarded" for this by getting targeted by mafia.
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On November 28 2012 01:27 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2012 01:25 Hapahauli wrote:On November 28 2012 01:18 syllogism wrote:
I don't see why mafia would shoot you for massive damage on those two days, when their main priority should be eliminating semi-confirmed townies.
I can't believe you two were healing him anyway, but I perhaps he didn't believe it either. Hapa definitely shouldn't be on a team until this is sorted out. Well both of those guys (clarity and iamp) have town reads on me, so the heals make sense from that perspective. From what I understand:Post-D1: I took 0 damage. Either iamp's claimed heal was completely wasted OR it nullified any damage directed towards me. Post-D2: I took 100 damage. No one healed me (or no one has claimed so), and Toad claimed he shot me for 100. Post-D3: I took 50 damage, and nl_clarity healed me for an undisclosed amount, indicating that I took more than 50 damage. you are not listening. say you took 20 dmg and i healed you. You would get you took 20 dmg and you were healed you took no damage cycle1
Oh ok, so that narrows things down on D1, and I didn't take any damage.
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Hm I'm inclined to believe Acro here. He fits the profile of the classic "pro-town but slightly-off" profile of a 3rd party. Lotsa scumhunting, but some weird things in his filter that aren't necessarily mafia-motivated. Also, him going after Toad so hard (and being one of the first to do so) seems pretty unlikely if Toad flips red.
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On November 28 2012 02:08 Hopeless1der wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2012 02:06 Hapahauli wrote:
Hm I'm inclined to believe Acro here. He fits the profile of the classic "pro-town but slightly-off" profile of a 3rd party. Lotsa scumhunting, but some weird things in his filter that aren't necessarily mafia-motivated.
Also, him going after Toad so hard (and being one of the first to do so) seems pretty unlikely if Toad flips red. Him being scum is unlikely, regarding that last line?
He was amongst the first to build a case and push Toad:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=382922¤tpage=127#2523
He did so before it was popular, and really aggressively pushed him as a lynch option on the D2 lynch. I find it incredibly unlikely that he was scum and did so.
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On November 28 2012 02:07 GreYMisT wrote:
IF you take 150 damage and are healed for 100 damage in the same night, you will be told
You took 50 damage
You were healed.
Oooh interesting. So I didn't receive anything about getting healed, and healing actions towards me didn't go through for whatever reasoh.
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@ iamp
Acro made a comment on wanting to hear an explanation about you healing me D1, and I'm inclined to agree. You had a really strong town read on me D1...
On November 23 2012 05:27 iamperfection wrote:
From phone I saw hapas post he has my sword this is town hapa
[b]## vote hapa [b//]
...however it's pretty unexplained. Is you being drunk Thanksgiving the only explanation you have for this (both the town-read and the heal)? Needless to say it's not very convincing.
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Is it either me, or is risk's play far too clean this game? Like from what I've seen in his town play, he's really good about including one or two unbelievably stupid comments that get him suspected//lynched//whatever. This game, he's remarkably... reasonable.
In addition, his day 1 actions line up pretty well with what I'd expect scum to do. Strong early support for Sandroba's candidacy, barely any mention of other candidates (other than a lone, slimly-discussed vote on Goodkarma), and a strong early buss of Sandroba on D2.
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I'll stew over that while I grab some lunch and read through his meta.
Overall, I think we're starting to focus too much on players that are drawing attention to themselves rather than looking for people not in the spotlight. Players like Acro and Hopeless are really engaged with the thread atm, and while I'm waffling wildly on them (especially Hopeless), I'm starting to think this is a town trait.
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On November 28 2012 03:42 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2012 02:38 Acrofales wrote:On November 28 2012 02:26 risk.nuke wrote:On November 28 2012 01:50 Acrofales wrote:On November 28 2012 01:46 risk.nuke wrote:On November 28 2012 01:43 Acrofales wrote:On November 28 2012 01:39 risk.nuke wrote:
If you're third party and you're good for town why don't you want to say what you want to do, you're asking us to trust you leaving you alive is in towns best interest. What third party have 1-shot cop. I can't say what I need to do, because anybody with Chrono Trigger lore knowledge will probably be able to figure out who I am. As there's probably mechanisms to prevent that from being a good idea, you'll just have to trust me. Have I given you any reason not to trust me? Lets put it this way, If you were third party who's objective would hurt town. Would you claim that or something in the lines of what you just did? I would lie my ass off. However, I would probably not be leaking 3rd party on all sides. I am a better player than that and you should know it. I played the way I did precisely because I am helping town. If you have any specific accusations, go ahead and make them. You were suspected as scum even with the play you've played. Playing worse might had gotten you lynched already. You're asking us to trust you but you should understand there is no way that's going to happen. Really? I was in danger of being lynched? I want some of what you're smoking. Votes on Acro D2: 0. People who wanted to take me to the prom D3: 2 claimed before I put an end to it. The next lynch is pretty much locked in on Toad, so I didn't have to fear that either. When exactly was I in ANY danger of being lynched?! I was clearly suspected of being scum. Only person who even voiced that was Syllo and he said it without having read my filter. Stop throwing suspicion around unwarranted. Anyway, who said that I would have played WORSE? I would probably have played a lot SAFER. Like, I would not have looked so ridiculously townie that people wanted to take me along for the ride on D3, forcing me to claim I didn't want to. So. Why are you misrepresenting what happened just to be suspicious of me? In fact, what have you DONE this game? Are you the guy who has to kill me? Hey, you forgot about me!  In all seriousness, I'm not really sure what to do about you. I mentioned the things I found off about your play this game to Hapa. And third party could definitely explain them. My problem, of course, is that so could scum. In a game with a limited amount of lynches, as it seems, third party survivor makes a ton of sense for scum to fake-claim. Anyways, does your role PM specifically mention someone "hunting" you, so to speak? If so, why the hell did you claim at all? If not, why is your default assumption that there is someone looking for you?
I think Toad fits a 3rd party read to a T.
The guy is incredibly active, and largely pro-town, with some slightly "off" things in his filter. That's a really classic example of a third party.
But since we all think that Toad is 99.9% scum, consider this: Acro was the first person to build a significant case and push Toad's lynch. On top of this, he did this on D2, when Sandroba was the consensus lynch. There is no conceivable way that Scum would turn down an easy bussing opportunity to bus another of their teammates. Makes no damn sense from a mafia perspective.
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On November 28 2012 03:58 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2012 03:52 Hapahauli wrote:On November 28 2012 03:42 Keirathi wrote:On November 28 2012 02:38 Acrofales wrote:On November 28 2012 02:26 risk.nuke wrote:On November 28 2012 01:50 Acrofales wrote:On November 28 2012 01:46 risk.nuke wrote:On November 28 2012 01:43 Acrofales wrote:On November 28 2012 01:39 risk.nuke wrote:
If you're third party and you're good for town why don't you want to say what you want to do, you're asking us to trust you leaving you alive is in towns best interest. What third party have 1-shot cop. I can't say what I need to do, because anybody with Chrono Trigger lore knowledge will probably be able to figure out who I am. As there's probably mechanisms to prevent that from being a good idea, you'll just have to trust me. Have I given you any reason not to trust me? Lets put it this way, If you were third party who's objective would hurt town. Would you claim that or something in the lines of what you just did? I would lie my ass off. However, I would probably not be leaking 3rd party on all sides. I am a better player than that and you should know it. I played the way I did precisely because I am helping town. If you have any specific accusations, go ahead and make them. You were suspected as scum even with the play you've played. Playing worse might had gotten you lynched already. You're asking us to trust you but you should understand there is no way that's going to happen. Really? I was in danger of being lynched? I want some of what you're smoking. Votes on Acro D2: 0. People who wanted to take me to the prom D3: 2 claimed before I put an end to it. The next lynch is pretty much locked in on Toad, so I didn't have to fear that either. When exactly was I in ANY danger of being lynched?! I was clearly suspected of being scum. Only person who even voiced that was Syllo and he said it without having read my filter. Stop throwing suspicion around unwarranted. Anyway, who said that I would have played WORSE? I would probably have played a lot SAFER. Like, I would not have looked so ridiculously townie that people wanted to take me along for the ride on D3, forcing me to claim I didn't want to. So. Why are you misrepresenting what happened just to be suspicious of me? In fact, what have you DONE this game? Are you the guy who has to kill me? Hey, you forgot about me! In all seriousness, I'm not really sure what to do about you. I mentioned the things I found off about your play this game to Hapa. And third party could definitely explain them. My problem, of course, is that so could scum. In a game with a limited amount of lynches, as it seems, third party survivor makes a ton of sense for scum to fake-claim. Anyways, does your role PM specifically mention someone "hunting" you, so to speak? If so, why the hell did you claim at all? If not, why is your default assumption that there is someone looking for you? I think Toad fits a 3rd party read to a T. The guy is incredibly active, and largely pro-town, with some slightly "off" things in his filter. That's a really classic example of a third party. But since we all think that Toad is 99.9% scum, consider this: Acro was the first person to build a significant case and push Toad's lynch. On top of this, he did this on D2, when Sandroba was the consensus lynch. There is no conceivable way that Scum would turn down an easy bussing opportunity to bus another of their teammates. Makes no damn sense from a mafia perspective. Herpaderp. PARITY CHECK. SAME as Sandroba.
The 0.1% chance is in the event that he got double-framed or something. Super super unlikely yes, but just acknowledging the remote possibility. You seem to be arguing semantics though, since I wouldn't dream of lynching/killing anyone else before him.
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@ Acro
I"m curious, do you think risk is scum? I'm generally worried about going after "lynch-bait" type players, but his play does seem genuinely scummy, especially weighing his crazier//less-consistent town games.
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On November 28 2012 04:04 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2012 04:00 Hapahauli wrote:On November 28 2012 03:58 Acrofales wrote:On November 28 2012 03:52 Hapahauli wrote:On November 28 2012 03:42 Keirathi wrote:On November 28 2012 02:38 Acrofales wrote:On November 28 2012 02:26 risk.nuke wrote:On November 28 2012 01:50 Acrofales wrote:On November 28 2012 01:46 risk.nuke wrote:On November 28 2012 01:43 Acrofales wrote:
[quote]
I can't say what I need to do, because anybody with Chrono Trigger lore knowledge will probably be able to figure out who I am. As there's probably mechanisms to prevent that from being a good idea, you'll just have to trust me.
Have I given you any reason not to trust me? Lets put it this way, If you were third party who's objective would hurt town. Would you claim that or something in the lines of what you just did? I would lie my ass off. However, I would probably not be leaking 3rd party on all sides. I am a better player than that and you should know it. I played the way I did precisely because I am helping town. If you have any specific accusations, go ahead and make them. You were suspected as scum even with the play you've played. Playing worse might had gotten you lynched already. You're asking us to trust you but you should understand there is no way that's going to happen. Really? I was in danger of being lynched? I want some of what you're smoking. Votes on Acro D2: 0. People who wanted to take me to the prom D3: 2 claimed before I put an end to it. The next lynch is pretty much locked in on Toad, so I didn't have to fear that either. When exactly was I in ANY danger of being lynched?! I was clearly suspected of being scum. Only person who even voiced that was Syllo and he said it without having read my filter. Stop throwing suspicion around unwarranted. Anyway, who said that I would have played WORSE? I would probably have played a lot SAFER. Like, I would not have looked so ridiculously townie that people wanted to take me along for the ride on D3, forcing me to claim I didn't want to. So. Why are you misrepresenting what happened just to be suspicious of me? In fact, what have you DONE this game? Are you the guy who has to kill me? Hey, you forgot about me! In all seriousness, I'm not really sure what to do about you. I mentioned the things I found off about your play this game to Hapa. And third party could definitely explain them. My problem, of course, is that so could scum. In a game with a limited amount of lynches, as it seems, third party survivor makes a ton of sense for scum to fake-claim. Anyways, does your role PM specifically mention someone "hunting" you, so to speak? If so, why the hell did you claim at all? If not, why is your default assumption that there is someone looking for you? I think Toad fits a 3rd party read to a T. The guy is incredibly active, and largely pro-town, with some slightly "off" things in his filter. That's a really classic example of a third party. But since we all think that Toad is 99.9% scum, consider this: Acro was the first person to build a significant case and push Toad's lynch. On top of this, he did this on D2, when Sandroba was the consensus lynch. There is no conceivable way that Scum would turn down an easy bussing opportunity to bus another of their teammates. Makes no damn sense from a mafia perspective. Herpaderp. PARITY CHECK. SAME as Sandroba. The 0.1% chance is in the event that he got double-framed or something. Super super unlikely yes, but just acknowledging the remote possibility. You seem to be arguing semantics though, since I wouldn't dream of lynching/killing anyone else before him. I assume you meant Acro in that first sentence, not Toad, right?
Oh fuck yes Acro. Acroacroacro.
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EPT
