Mario Mini Mafia

On November 12 2012 12:10 Keirathi wrote:

Very well, as long as you realize the kind of time investment that the game requires, you may join.

On November 13 2012 09:33 debears wrote:


So you vote him and not me?

On November 13 2012 09:43 debears wrote:


But he just said he doesn't want it and that he's fine with me taking the mantle, despite his vast amount of experience

On November 13 2012 09:48 Clarity_nl wrote:
There's no reason to believe or disbelieve Zbo. All this tells us is that there's no point in investigating him, and if there is a counter claim he'll lean scummy.

On November 13 2012 09:52 Hapahauli wrote:


Woah woah hold-up. I'm not liking how you're trusting this claim right away.

Claiming miller is a pretty much a riskless play here. We don't know how many millers are in the setup, and as far as I'm concerned, the claim is null until Z-Bo proves otherwise.

On November 13 2012 09:59 Hapahauli wrote:


Oh noes! Well fortunately I'm not scum.

+ Show Spoiler +



It's not "so whatever" - I'm pretty skeptical how you're so willing to think Z-Bo is town off what looks to me like a completely null action.

On November 13 2012 10:25 Hapahauli wrote:


No I don't find it weird. I think it's just a pointless comment that can be made by either alignment. Again, see Mr. Cheesecake's "odd" VT claim time in the Newbie game.

Him trusting Z-Bo's claim so up-front is a bit strange, but again, I don't know if it's just bad logic or scum knowing who's who.

I haven't seen anything alignment indicative from him yet.

On November 13 2012 10:35 Hapahauli wrote:


What's your second read dawg?

On November 13 2012 10:25 Blazinghand wrote:
lol

On November 13 2012 10:33 iamperfection wrote:
guys a town zbos could lie if he was blue

He could be scum

he could be vt.

I'm inclined looking at the comment that he was just writing what he thought and that it was probably true. He just had a slip of the tongue so i'm actually inclined to think it was actually the truth. It didn't look like to me as a scum making a post in order to put a claim together. Boom i got two town reads already which you gonna do mafia??????????

On November 13 2012 10:55 strongandbig wrote:
shhh no one tell him

its ruined if you tell him what it is

On November 13 2012 10:55 Hapahauli wrote:
Oh goddamnit I got sniped by the "kenpachi rule" apparently, but my post still stands since he had his vote on me at the time of the post I reference.

On November 13 2012 11:38 marvellosity wrote:


I agree wholeheartedly, in Rock Band he came out all guns blazing (no pun intended) whereas the opposite is true here. I expect great things from him when he comes back to the thread, that's for sure.

On November 13 2012 15:38 Blazinghand wrote:


Honestly I think it's bad to tie yourself down with ideas like that. If someone's playing scummy, they're playing scummy. My scum play isn't amazing, but due to my extreme sex appeal and enormous intelligence and penis, I can assure you that it's improved a great deal. Mostly it's due to my large penis-- it is quite a monstrosity. It works as a pad, even.

Back on topic, don't feel like you can't vote or push people because of possible contributions. This kind of play is lazy and puts preconceived notions of what certain players are worth ahead of behavioral analysis. Someone voting for me because they legitimately think I'm scum and they have the cojones to do it is infinitely more helpful to town than someone not voting me because I'm a sexy baller.

That being said, iamperfection's vote is pretty typical iamperfection throwing his vote around trying to pressure people but not doing it effectively. He needs to realize that you should vote people when you want to lynch them, or else you won't be taken seriously.

On November 13 2012 10:04 Z-BosoN wrote:
Loving the activity so far.
What I'm not loving is the excess of activity coming from debears.
He's being very chit-chatty this game and here's what I find very interesting.
He has commented on every single little thing on this game and is posting a ton (which by itself is anti-town, as it clogs up the thread and makes it difficult to read), but when dealing with the only significant thing that has yet happened in this thread, he simply shrugs it off as:



For someone who is analytical enough to attempt to judge marv's early game reactions, he's sure not being analytical about my claim. This smells scummy to me.

##vote debears

On November 13 2012 11:05 Z-BosoN wrote:
@Hapa: To be honest, I've had an opposite reaction from iamp's trusting of me. I think scum would think twice before openly accepting any townie claim. In his last scum game, iirc, he was much pickier on his town reads. May be wrong here.

@debears



Great, grats. So you suffer an onslaught of fluff accusations day one, and yet you still plague the thread with fluff? Do you find nothing wrong with that?

@marv
So you say that you fit best the description of actively lurking, and pretty much continue to do that? Tell me more.

On November 14 2012 00:07 debears wrote:
@Clarity

I would like to see more scum hunter extraordinaire out of Marv, but nothing right now is screaming scum to me from him. And, he's a strong town player. If he does something that is so scummy that it blinds me I'll go after him

@Marv

Would you say that SandB is an easy target for mafia? Although the vt claim was weird, having what, 4 people vote him so early just doesn't make me comfortable.

Considering we do have over 24 hours left, I'm sure SandB, if he is town, will come up with something good.

On November 14 2012 00:17 marvellosity wrote:
Hopeless, I think you're making too much of that. The bit you bold says "was" - past tense, that was his stance previously (when he'd missed my Crossfire post).

Like debears said just now there's not a lot to say about Crossfire otherwise, you can't really have a stance on someone who hasn't posted yet.

The whole issue is overblown and should be dropped. If only because it's a big distraction to debears, who has to keep talking about it, and it's not helping anyone

On November 14 2012 00:42 Blazinghand wrote:
lil iamperfection im gonna talk down @ u till u get on my level cause else how u gonna hear me from down there lol

On November 14 2012 00:54 marvellosity wrote:


what's the deal with you posting like scum?

On November 14 2012 00:57 Blazinghand wrote:
Marv doesnt unseratand ghe ZB case

or they are scum udddies

dont worry rhough he is scrub

On November 14 2012 01:00 marvellosity wrote:
Rock Band or Whose Line are recent town games of his.

On November 14 2012 01:35 Blazinghand wrote:
iamp bad but not scum this is just how he plays

On November 14 2012 01:51 marvellosity wrote:
Guys, guys!!!

I think I may have an awesome quiz for you a little later in the evening. It may even be as good as my Palmar quiz in Rock Band.

On November 14 2012 02:54 Hapahauli wrote:


The scum motive is in completely abandoning/forgetting a town read for shitty reasons when it's convenient for you to do so (BH's case on Z-Boson). Sure it would be smarter for a potential scum-iamperfection to stick to his story. But he didn't do that, and the alternative here is also scummy in it's own right, regardless of the attention he brought to himself.

On November 13 2012 10:45 iamperfection wrote:

oh lol my bad thats was supposed to strongandbig in that comment.

On November 14 2012 03:49 strongandbig wrote:


iamperfection is lazy as fuck, he's like mattchew in being both terrible and lazy

but at the moment hapa's case is super unpersuasive to me

On November 14 2012 05:06 strongandbig wrote:

gsl 2 doesnt count

thats the one where i got mislynched for not having enough time to play while i was on vacation with my family

i mean yeah i was lazy there but whatever



also i mean like "intellectually lazy", as in "not bothering to explain yourself very much."

On November 14 2012 05:14 Z-BosoN wrote:



What debears mentions is his radical switch from >>Hunting BH<< to >>Agreeing with BH<<.
Except that this post I quoted is immediately after his vote on me. Here, he still shows interest in finding out if BH is scum, someone he had just agreed with. That being said, he is being incredibly flip-floppy, which I'm finding extremely weird.

I don't think this is enough to peg him as scum though, I can imagine him as town being suspicious of everyone.
I find BH's play to be much, much more appaling. I have only played one game with him, so I'm not super aware of his meta, but it is totally different than his Liquid City one. Here he has made one major case, a weak one at that, and established an unusally high amount of certainty on it, calling it "a masterpiece".

On November 14 2012 05:16 Blazinghand wrote:
im not sure ive called it a masterpiece but yeah its good

On November 14 2012 05:23 Blazinghand wrote:
just cuz u agree with me doesnt mean ur town dude

On November 14 2012 05:31 Clarity_nl wrote:
Anyone willing to give their read on DarthPunk while everyone anxiously awaits Blazinghand's defense and case?

On November 14 2012 05:48 Clarity_nl wrote:
Do you guys have some sort of meta read that I do not?
The description "has a 3 page filter but nothing that I can make a read off of" doesn't seem very townie to me.

On November 14 2012 05:50 Clarity_nl wrote:
Still on Darth. Stay on target!

On November 14 2012 05:51 Hopeless1der wrote:
Darth is still playing in Acme. Poor play may be related to that. I'm null on him.

On November 14 2012 06:00 Blazinghand wrote:


spoken like a guy who doesn't know how to crack jokes

way easier to crack jokes than to contribute, dont see why it's odd

On November 14 2012 06:07 Blazinghand wrote:


Well, I'm home now so I'll write a post with some proper thoughts. And I see no reason to leave the thread just because you've told me to.

On November 14 2012 07:44 Blazinghand wrote:
Well, I was hoping it wouldn't come to this, but if wishes were wings, etc.

Man, there's few things I hate like arguing about my own meta, but several people have talked about it, at least in passing, so I'm dispelling the meta myth right now. I would have liked someone else to do it, but you all are too lazy to actually back up your meta statements so I have to do it myself. It'd be really nice if one of you could verify it for yourself because a dude talking about his own meta doesn't usually go well.

Here are my scum games. There might be one or two I'm missing, but these are the ones I remember:

Cop Idiot Mafia: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=328827&user=133498
Bureaucracy Mafia: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678&user=133498
Resistance II: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=311315&user=133498
Emergency Mini Mafia (3rd party): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=311315&user=133498

If you take a look at all these games, even Emergency Mini Mafia, what people are attributing to my "bad scum meta" this game are not present at all. As scum I try to play like town-- posting big cases and interacting with people a lot. Where I fail is that as scum, I'm typically overly diplomatic and temperamentally less aggressive. This game is nothing like any of my scum games.

Now let's look at the one time I've been mislynched, in Storm Mafia:
Storm Mafia: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=313426&user=133498

Yeah it's rather old but the point is I don't always play perfectly. Sometimes, yes, I'm making smaller posts and my cases aren't perfect. I've been mislynched for playing to my "scum meta" when in fact I just sometimes play differently as town. I'm not making the same mistake I made in Storm Mafia-- not defending myself zealously and claiming at the appropriate time.

I'm the Jailkeeper. My crumb is in the post where I talk about my large penis and how it could work as a "pad" (link)-- for pad-lock, lock, locked up, jail, jailkeeper. Admittedly, role crumbs aren't much supporting evidence, but lynching a claimed blue D1 is amazingly bad play. It's possible there's no scum roleblocker which means my power can still be of use to us.

You all have plenty of time to unvote me and vote Z-B before the day ends.

On November 14 2012 07:26 Hapahauli wrote:


His rationale and motive make sense to me from a scum perspective - I've already mentioned that. Making a 180 when spurred by another case is scummy and convenient. I realize you disagree, but I think you're wrong.

And to draw comparisons to the read on Kei you mentioned in GSL III - I find imaperfection's actions alone much more scummy than Kei's actions in GSL III. Kei has a history of reluctant D1 play. Iamperfection doesn't have a history of these things in his town play to my knowledge.

On November 14 2012 08:06 Clarity_nl wrote:
Okay so, best move on and wait a bit to see if there's a counter claim?
Were you around all this time iamp, or did you just return?

On November 14 2012 08:17 Hapahauli wrote:


@ iamp

Can you explain your thought process on Z-Bo to me because I just can't understand it. Why were you so initially convinced he was town based on his claim? Is the case you posted on him the only things you find scummy about him? I can't connect the dots.

On November 14 2012 00:04 iamperfection wrote:

LOL dont you dare talk down to me you little punk. You criticize me when YOU were the one being all terrible with your first couple of posts. Being all herp derp i don't have to contribute even though interesting things were happening at the time. Give me a break

But that being said ## Unvote

Your case on zbos reminds me more of your play from rockband more then the way you were being early on.

Lokking at what zbos has posted especially this crap which bh pointed out


If you look closely debears never said anything about being able to tell if marv is town or not from an anyltical standpoint he made it pretty clear that it was not the case and that he had said he was simply going to vote for him no matter what.

Zbos totally misrepresents what is being said here and if he has the courage to throw a vote out for it you would have thought he would have read clearly what he was in fact voting for.


This post here is also another pile of crap and its the iamperfection rule of whoever defends me is probably scum. If he cared at all to check in gsl III where i was scum which he played in lollololol i thrw around 2 strong town reads early on he should know this and the fact that he isnt willing to do any legwork in order to find out is more evidence not in his favor. This post is also extremly wishy washy on everything he said.

I know i said early on that i thought the miller claim was more of a town tell but well i think zbos actions speak louder.

so ## Vote zboson

On November 14 2012 08:19 Blazinghand wrote:
I did have to claim. But yeah let's leave that for post game.

I currently have two scumreads ZB and Iamp. If ZB isnt geting lynnjed thats understandable but iamp is a good target for todays lynch probably

lurking wise
xfire is getting modkilled/replaced probably so thats good

Im chiefly concerned about thrawn because he wont get modkilled and is lurking

will make sure to write good cases today

On November 14 2012 08:31 Blazinghand wrote:
yeah i dunno what to think now gotta read up and rethink

On November 14 2012 10:13 Hapahauli wrote:


Looking at debears, there's not much to say other than there's not much substance in his 4-page filter.

Lots of short, 1/2 line posts with banter.
He jumps on Hopeless really quickly, who's one of the easier targets in the game.
He's then pretty quick to jump on iamperfection, and has been pushing that "read" since. As previously stated, his "vote post" looks like an overkill-case.

But the thing that really sticks out to me is that he's been tunneling iamperfection for the last few hours yet still has his vote on Hopeless. He's using a lot of strong language against iamperfection (much stronger than against hopeless), and from his filter it looks like iamperfection is his top scumread.

At this point he's much more content to push the read on iamperfection than his one on Hopeless, and I see no townie reason why his vote isn't where his mouth is.

##Unvote
##Vote debears

On November 14 2012 13:10 debears wrote:
ugh catching up so far behind right now....let me know up front if you need questions and i'll get to them once i catch up

On November 14 2012 08:26 iamperfection wrote:

alright my thinking early on when i first saw it was i thought it would be pretty ballsy to do as scum since i thought a scum would have to worry about another miller claiming and it kind of put himself out there.

I already outlined later when i voted for him that his actions made me think that he was scum at that time.



Since then his case on bh, which i completely disagree bh with, it wasnt omgus and his further pushing of that case when he found it to be unsatisfactory response make me know think he more than ever he is likely to be town.

he did that here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440&currentpage=33#643

Zbos is being open in his thought process and he is actively pushing his read i find that to be a town attribute and makes me think even more with his prodding of bh that he is likely to be town.

On November 14 2012 22:54 marvellosity wrote:
iamp, who do you wanna lynch buddy

On November 14 2012 23:06 strongandbig wrote:


that sir is what's called "pushing your luck"



BH posted this after reading exactly the same explanation from DP that I read, and exactly the same comments on DP's meta from marv as I read, and doing exactly the same amount of work looking into DP's actual scum/town meta as I did (none) - and yet he comes up with a vote? Without at all addressing the points from Marv and from himself about DP's meta? And without addressing the other game in progress issue - which isn't an "unverifiable irl excuse," we can go look at the thread - and yet he comes up with a vote?

guys what we have out of BH is not just a scummy and needless claim - we have a scummy and needless claim from a player who isn't playing up to his usual town standard in several ways
- bad cases
- trolling/fluff while taking the easy opportunity to gain points by attacking other people for fluff
and most importantly
- the huge mismatch in thread presence, thread control, and town organization between BH's last town game (whose line) and this game

And then we have

BH psychology: he just saw me do well - not win, except for self-declaring victory, but do much better than I should have given how the game started out - he saw me do well by fakeclaiming blue and then really pushing that fakeclaim hard. He also just had what I assume must be a trollgasm from evoking ridiculous reactions from Keirathi in that same game. Now he's claimed blue for no good reason, and it's a blue role that he can "verify" easily by withholding KP, or that he can make unverifiable by claiming to be roleblocked.

There's no way a town BH decides "there are 3 or 4 votes on me, like 30 hours before the lynch - time to claim!"

I just don't believe that thought process is real.

##vote: blazinghand

On November 14 2012 23:11 debears wrote:


No idiot is justified. I am wayyyy wrong on that.

Thankyou for pointing that out.

Eh iamp I rescind my arguments on you

On November 14 2012 23:15 debears wrote:
how does it feel ^^

Iamp and marv

What do you feel about the DP wagon going on?

Honestly, I feel that his play is a null tell at this point. I'd be willing to give him a second day to shape up and show some usefulness. Meanwhile, Hopeless has acted like he is contributing and really hasn't done anything

On November 13 2012 15:29 thrawn2112 wrote:
strongandbig

The vt claim stuff... eh i didn't really get a read either way on that. I interpreted that claim post as more of a joke than a hidden roleclaim. I'm suspicious of how he voted with not much of an explanation.... but then reading how fast and easily a strongandbig bandwagon immediately formed makes me even more suspicious of the bandwagon. We are like 4 hours in or something and there is already a bandwagon and 4 votes for a player. I've never seen anyone other than kushm4sta attract that many votes that early and actually flip red.

Posts like this one.....



.... are what make me think he's not scum. He's playing fast and loose and that'd be pretty risky. It was my scum strategy in irc mafia but I don't think it would work it forum mafia.

I'm most concerned about darthpunk atm. First he seems a lot less "in your face" than town dp does, and I don't like his snb vote. Ironically, he seemd to vote for snb for making a shitty vote, but imo dp's vote was even worse.

He later unvotes... and doesn't give a reason why... and then he votes again for snb. He actually votes for that trolly post I referenced earlier.. the whole situation leaves me with the feeling that snb is town and dp is scum and taking the easy way out by voting based on snb's blatantly trolly and silly posts. DP has this to say about snb:



That's the same feeling that I'm getting, except in the other direction so it worries me that DP is interpreting it how he is.

Darthpunk, why did you unvote snb?

I'm also concerned about kickstart. I don't like how he jumped in the thread without commenting on anything. Looks like this is his first game though so I'm not gonna judge him too early. Could be either scum not having an opinion or first time player not having an opinion.



His other post didn't add much either. Kickstart... we've already got 7 people throwing down votes, there is plenty to talk about. Specifically, I want to hear your opinions on anything snb related.

##fos dp

On November 14 2012 23:54 Clarity_nl wrote:
I'll be back for a bit in 30-40 minutes but in an hour or two I'll be gone until 9 pm my time (6 hours before lynch).

I would like some more thoughts on this please:


iamp I urge you to look elsewhere than BH for the time being, and revisit this tomorrow. Lynching him today would simply be bad.

On November 15 2012 01:01 DarthPunk wrote:
SO it seems as if he case against me boils down to meta almost completely and yet my play this game conforms to neither my town nor my scum meta.

Let me tell you what I was doing today. I know people hate this kind of shit. But honestly FU all.

I am house sitting for my sister whilst she goes to Vietnam and Thailand for a month. She leaves tomorrow. So I had to pick up the keys and go over the care of her cats and dog.

Then my friend who I haven't seen for three years was here so I grabbed lunch with him. I had 4 hours in which I had time to not only post in two games, but do various chores before my friend and several others went out for dinner and drinks. I stayed out till now when it is almost 3am and then I get back completely wasted to post in this damn mafia thread with a bunch of idiots who want to mislynch me.

Yes you are idiots. The case is a meta case in which I am deviating from both my scum and my town meta. If I didn't care about being correct I could shit out some cases right now and most likely not get lynched.

I can make fucking excuses because they are true and I didn;t have the time to day to do the amount of reading I like to do in both games. So I prioritised the other game. Holy Shit. you know I need to read 4 end game filters in that game right?? And this game is progressing at a million miles an hour.


Literally I take 5 minutes to write my defence posts but it would take me hours to read enough to be comfortable pushing a lynch.

Because I give a fuck about being right in my reads. Holy shit. that is a town tell if I ever saw one.

I am drunk as fuck writing this post at 3 am when I should rightly be in bed because the best thing I can contribute right now.] is to try and prevent my mislynch.

Honestly. The meta case against me is complete bullshit because it is a shift of meta for both alignments.

Give me one more day to prove my self and to let me shape up. If I don;t you can lynch me.

Holy shit this is some bullshit.

On November 14 2012 23:10 debears wrote:



ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING??? THERE ARE NO COUNTERCLAIMS FROM A JK/RB, AND YOU WANT TO LYNCH A JK CLAIM DAY 1???

On November 15 2012 02:09 marvellosity wrote:
I really think DP is a bad lynch. Hopeless or debears.

DP does not play uselessly as scum either.

On November 15 2012 02:12 marvellosity wrote:


you're missing the fucking point.

DP does not play uselessly AS EITHER ALIGNMENT.

On November 15 2012 02:14 marvellosity wrote:


it makes him neither, for fuck's sake.

If he is not useless as either A or B, then when he IS useless you can't say that he's necessarily A or B.

On November 15 2012 05:37 Clarity_nl wrote:
Just got back and caught up. A lot happened. Iamp claimed he's staying on Darth, how about you thrawn?
Because if you plan on moving I'll have to make a decision between debears and.... Hopeless?

I don't like debears' reaction to accusations at all, very emotional with not much weight or facts behind it.
When he got accused of being scum D1 in XXX he addressed the points and moved on to scumhunt.
That said I don't think that makes him scum and the cases against him didn't convince me.
So hopeless. Well there definitely is nothing townie about him, I believe he's the better lynch candidate.

I still want my Darth lynch though, so Thrawn, whadya say?

On November 15 2012 07:48 Hapahauli wrote:


Is DP still your top scumread? What makes him scummier than debears at this point? It seems you largely agree with me on him but find DP scummier instead.

On November 15 2012 08:04 marvellosity wrote:
##unvote

I wanna lynch someone else. Case incoming once I get the pieces all together.

On November 15 2012 08:05 Clarity_nl wrote:
Wow, 3 hours from deadline?

On November 15 2012 08:07 Clarity_nl wrote:
Ehhhh, people always think that. Then something unexpected happens and people go apeshit.
Maybe that's just my impression because of newbie games though. My last game as scum I could easily hide in last minute chaos.

On November 15 2012 08:15 debears wrote:


Hapa you're so full of it.

I WAS SUSPICIOUS OF HOPELESS FROM THE BEGINNING. HOLY SHIT.I wasn't under serious suspicion. Now, you're lying

HE WAS IN NO WAY THE "EASY LYNCH" WHEN I FIRST HAD SUSPICIONS OF HIM.

And oh look. I NEVER VOTED YOU HAPA CUZ YOU AREN'T GETTING LYNCHED TODAY. Now, you're making stuff up

More lies

On November 15 2012 08:18 debears wrote:
Hey S&B

When were those posts? Early D1 if I recall

What have you posted that's so great? You trolled in the beginning. Now you're being hypocritical in your vote

On November 15 2012 08:18 marvellosity wrote:
debears is right, by the way.

Some of Hapa's pushing on him is fucking nonsense.

On November 15 2012 08:28 Hapahauli wrote:


Ok this bit is fair, however:



This is complete bullshit. This coming from the guy who accused me of going after "easy" targets in iamperfection and you.



The voting is a big deal because I still don't see how the hell you arrived at Hopeless being your top scumread. Hell you started all this "OMG OMG HOPELESS SCUM" thing the second I called you out for not pushing him and pushing iamperfection instead.

Maybe at some point you'll actually respond to this instead of spouting your "bad assumption" nonsense about your "suspicion" on Hopeless:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440&currentpage=47#937

Hell you're entire read on me is OMGUS and that I'm somehow not following my principles. This is retarded and I can't imagine you'd ever come up with this shit as town. By all means show me how I'm not - the "overkill" read I've mentioned in some of my other town games as well.

On November 15 2012 08:34 Hapahauli wrote:


Because it's completely illogical and in pure OMGUS. He started it the SECOND his lynch started gaining traction. Way too convenient.

On November 15 2012 08:36 Blazinghand wrote:


No you wouldnt

On November 15 2012 09:50 Hapahauli wrote:
http://postimage.org/image/9ilt0jqpt/

Hapa = Melvin
Z-Bo = Paulo

The above is a small snip of a skype convo we had a few weeks back. I obviously don't want to screenshot the whole thing (it goes on a while), but this should get the gist of it - Z-Bo really wanted to play a less-active style of play and was running it by me (I advised against it, but he was unconvinced throughout). This makes me think that this could be town Z-Bo.

I know what Ver's guide says about the random 1-liners and what not but I really just disagree with it in this specific case. I think it's just a product of him wanting to post less.

He could be scum, but at the end of the day, debears is much scummier to me.

On November 15 2012 10:00 debears wrote:
@DP




This has already been explained by Clarity. After rereading, you should see what he means.

Also, DP

I find it odd how you say all day that you don't want to push a read, but now you do. From what I thought, I believed you said that you would come in n1/d2 to post more. Yet, you are doing it here an hour before lynch.

Why?

On November 15 2012 10:03 Hapahauli wrote:


Oh also, it doesn't really look like some "fundamental" change to me. He's just posting less, and his individual posts are longer. When you do that, the "fundamental" changes that marv points out (i.e. lack of jokes) are a pretty natural outcome.

Like I can see him being scum here, but based on our conversations, I think he can do this as town.

On November 15 2012 10:06 Crossfire99 wrote:
Yeah, so I just started to write the below post at school when the internet crapped out on me + Show Spoiler + and I could no longer to connect to team liquid. I just got home, so I am posting this now.


I don't know if the mafia way requires more assumptions. Even if it does and "seems" like the least likely option it might not be. I'll give you two examples from my two recent games.

In Aperature 2, the godfather was lynched day 1 with 4 votes with me being the hammer. It was plurality lynch with 13 players. There was assumed to be a 3 man scum team (which there was btw, even if there was only a 2 man scum team, my point still holds). I wasn't scum (I was 3rd party) and I assumed that there was no way that the other 3 guys were scum. It made no sense to me because all they had to do was switch off onto someone else with 2 votes before I voted (I voted very late day 1 IIRC), and then that guy was going to be lynched. It turns out there was a scum bussing the godfather day 1 because of extenuating irl circumstances for the godfather.

In my last game, WLIIA, strong claimed blue night 1 as scum and we all believed him because his name claim matched with the other blues in the game. I even made a post attacking the two remaining "non confirmed" townies in the game because one of them had to be scum. Even though they both played really townie and I said so in my cases on them, it still was the "most likely" solution. It turns out it wasn't the case and I eventually began to doubt strong's claim, which was the right thing to do.

Both of those examples show that just because something seems "more likely" doesn't mean it is so. We don't know what is going on in the mafia qt, so we just have to look for scummy behavior. We have found scummy behavior in blazing. Strong went over this in the post listed below.
+ Show Spoiler +

This post on blazing is making me change my mind about strong. I like his reasoning and I now see him as more townie than scummy. He did post a lot of unnecessary fluff and one liners, but I did that in my last game, WLIIA, and I was town.

##Vote Blazinghand

On November 15 2012 10:10 Crossfire99 wrote:

What do you want me to do about my internet? I can't help it. That is what I was working on when my internet crapped out, so I'm posting it now.

On November 15 2012 10:10 marvellosity wrote:
why is he making that post instead of bothering to read the thread, where BH is clearly not a possibility?

It's just nonsense.

On November 15 2012 10:12 Crossfire99 wrote:

I didn't want to get modkilled, so I posted that post that I had written up before. I am here now catching up, but I still think bh is scummy. I already mentioned that. Ugh.

On November 15 2012 10:13 Blazinghand wrote:
man I definitely don't have a right to call play unacceptable this game, but crossfire's play is unacceptable this game

On November 15 2012 10:14 Blazinghand wrote:
no, the shenannnies are good, crossfire needs to be lynched

like, he's pulled some crap about posting a case he already had but look at his play this game

On November 15 2012 10:17 debears wrote:


That's actually a very good point.

Iamp current thought on hopeless gogogo

On November 15 2012 10:18 debears wrote:


But is he scummy or townie?

On November 15 2012 10:19 debears wrote:
Guys we need consolidate now plzzzzzz

On November 15 2012 10:20 DarthPunk wrote:
holy shit this thread is moving fast.

OK. I was not suggesting we switch on to clarity. What I was doing is making a case I was convinced of as I promised. Obviously we are not going to lynch him. Did you see a vote?

I don't care if clarity explained something scummy away. It speaks of his mindset and the excuse was weak.

@ Perfection. You are probably town based on my meta read on you. If you are not town I don;t think you could keep up the charade for long enough anyway.

@Everyone
If you are voting for crossfire it is not because you are sure he is scum. It is because he was being bad. it's a coinflip.

@Blazinghand.

Explain to me how I just 'claimed' scum.

Marvs case on ZB is really good. There is a strong correlation between his play this game and his scum game.

The same sense of disconnect with the cases he is pushing.

I would vote for him or hopeless

But I like the case on ZB better

##Vote: Z -Boson

On November 15 2012 10:25 Hapahauli wrote:
Holy scumslip DP

iamp - good stuff



##unvote
##Vote DarthPunk

On November 15 2012 10:35 DarthPunk wrote:


I just did.

On November 15 2012 10:38 DarthPunk wrote:


take a look at their filters and try and see what I see when I am confirmed town.

I can't build ~10 cases in 30 minutes. that is an unreasonable expectation.

On November 15 2012 10:45 marvellosity wrote:
yeah this is gonna be a mislynch

On November 15 2012 10:46 Blazinghand wrote:
._. curse you DP for casting doubt into my heart. I'll just shoot you tonight with all my vigi bullets then

##unvote
##vote ZB

On November 15 2012 10:47 Blazinghand wrote:


it'll all make sense after the flip!

On November 15 2012 10:53 Blazinghand wrote:


yeah basically this

On November 15 2012 10:56 Hapahauli wrote:
What in the shit is all of this?

On November 15 2012 10:59 Hapahauli wrote:
This such fucking bullshit

On November 15 2012 10:59 Hapahauli wrote:
I leave for 5 minutes and a bucnh of you are swinging a random fucking lynch for no reason?

On November 15 2012 11:17 DarthPunk wrote:


Trying to get as much town cred as possible from your bus hey.

On November 15 2012 11:17 DarthPunk wrote:


Trying to get as much town cred as possible from your bus hey.

On November 15 2012 11:20 DarthPunk wrote:




HAHAHAHA. You are scum BH. far too obvious. And you were forced to bus because marv would have ripped you both to shreds as soon as I flipped town.

GG NO RE

On November 15 2012 11:36 Blazinghand wrote:


I'm not really sure how you're confirmed town. I actually think it's quite the opposite. Please explain.

On November 15 2012 11:40 DarthPunk wrote:

You are both idiots.

I was being pushed by fucking hapa. He was one of the players to initiate the lynch on me and was fine with the way it was going until marv and others realised I was townie in my death throwes.

At the end I was like HAPA is scum. Also I was the one who fucking switched at the last minute when the votes were tied. I made that lynch a certainty at the last possible second before deadline. The ACTUAL MINUTE OF THE DEADLINE.

On November 15 2012 11:43 Clarity_nl wrote:
Did anyone know that Darth was the hammer vote until Dandel posted the votecount? I wasn't sure who had more votes at the end.

On November 15 2012 14:54 Blazinghand wrote:
And I know you guys are gonna hate me for thus, but uh, yeah, I'm not a JK. Monday I had some family issues come up and it meant I wouldn't have much time to play through today, so I had to fake claim. Thursday and onwards I'm free though. Of course everyone is gonna be like super mad at me for this, but it worked, okay? Okay.

On November 15 2012 23:17 marvellosity wrote:
Would it be along the lines of "never listen to IRL excuses?"

On November 15 2012 23:26 marvellosity wrote:
I just wanted the gist of it, not an exact transcript, dear.

On November 15 2012 23:39 marvellosity wrote:
you're just lazy to type

On November 16 2012 00:20 Clarity_nl wrote:


Pretty sure he's not that naive.

On November 16 2012 00:21 marvellosity wrote:


Correct. Liquid City is a perfect comparison here - I was playing a pretty nice game as scum, and then totally unexpectedly I was outed night 1 by a blue mechanic.

I went down, and then town fucked themselves in the asses for days looking at connections I had with people.

On November 16 2012 01:11 debears wrote:


You don't even know i'm town, and you didn't then. You thought I was scum

Yet you sound like u knew i would flip town

##FOS Hopeless

On November 16 2012 01:33 marvellosity wrote:
I think Crossfire has a decent chance of flipping scum.

On November 16 2012 01:40 marvellosity wrote:
I do, it demonstrates that he basically hadn't been reading the thread, and that was going to be his predetermined contribution to the thread.

He popped his vote on Z-Bo 25 minutes before the deadline, and then as the night post came up, popped up to say "good job town".

There was no emotional investment in the lynch at all, nor do I see any signs of him being invested in the game. I just looked at his filter from Whose Line and he seemed waaaaaaay more invested in the game. Real life internet excuses or no.

On November 16 2012 03:11 Z-BosoN wrote:
iamperfection is also someone on hapa's train I can't make much sense of. In GSL, he showed that he has no problem bussing. Did so with marv getting lynched on day two quite fast. Now let's take a look at his filter:

He's basically been sheeping marv like mad this game:








When suddenly, out of nowhere, he says:



I'd like to know what herp derp "scumslips" he's referring to.

When going through his filter, the only mention of scumslip I found is this:



Which to me doesn't look much like a scumslip (or stupid-slip)
So I would also like him to clarify why he suddenly decided that he was going to not sheep marv and go for hapa.

Also, this is open to interpretation, but his exchange with hapa, regarding my explanation, makes it seem like he's more suspicious of me than of hapa



Especially when earlier on he agreed with the case on debears with hapa:



So, iamperfection, would like you, as well, to explain your thoughts, and be more clear on what you are referring to when you said "herp derp scumslip scumslip" and why you chose hapa over me. and i aired some misgivings about hapa well before so i dont really know what to say to you.

On November 16 2012 03:11 Z-BosoN wrote:
iamperfection is also someone on hapa's train I can't make much sense of. In GSL, he showed that he has no problem bussing. Did so with marv getting lynched on day two quite fast. Now let's take a look at his filter:

He's basically been sheeping marv like mad this game:








When suddenly, out of nowhere, he says:



I'd like to know what herp derp "scumslips" he's referring to.

When going through his filter, the only mention of scumslip I found is this:



Which to me doesn't look much like a scumslip (or stupid-slip)
So I would also like him to clarify why he suddenly decided that he was going to not sheep marv and go for hapa.

Also, this is open to interpretation, but his exchange with hapa, regarding my explanation, makes it seem like he's more suspicious of me than of hapa



Especially when earlier on he agreed with the case on debears with hapa:



So, iamperfection, would like you, as well, to explain your thoughts, and be more clear on what you are referring to when you said "herp derp scumslip scumslip" and why you chose hapa over me.

On November 16 2012 06:34 Kickstart wrote:
And this shit about me lurking is getting annoying, I have posts all throughout the thread, I have given my views on people and been completely genuine. Just because I'm not spamming up the thread with useless one-liner shit posts like half the people here doesn't mean I'm lurking.

On November 16 2012 07:26 marvellosity wrote:
Kickstart has 30+ posts and we are still in the first cycle.

That is not lurking.

Just because he's not activity fiends like the rest of us doesn't make him a lurker. 30+ posts in a cycle is quite adequate actually.

On November 16 2012 07:44 Clarity_nl wrote:
if I had a colouring book like marv, Kickstart would be the towniest colour of them all

On November 16 2012 07:53 marvellosity wrote:
it is, iamp. that's the point of the period :p

On November 16 2012 07:57 Hopeless1der wrote:
That's why I've reverted to my lurking state.

On November 16 2012 07:59 Hopeless1der wrote:
fine, i like lurking, you happy now?

On November 16 2012 08:30 Clarity_nl wrote:
It was a joking manner, but I don't take it back, that lynch was dumb as shit.

On November 16 2012 08:39 Clarity_nl wrote:
I like to win the "right" way, just who I am. I think it helps more than it hinders.

On November 16 2012 09:39 Hopeless1der wrote:
EBWOP:
iamperfection:

Someone comment on whether they believe this statement

On November 16 2012 09:44 Blazinghand wrote:
Hopeless' case is utterly unreasonable

On November 16 2012 10:13 Blazinghand wrote:


See, this is even more evidence for me being town-- if I'm so bad, surely a scumteam with me and hapa would sacrifice me rather than him

On November 16 2012 10:14 Blazinghand wrote:
Wait, okay, why is shooting me even a remotely good idea? I made a good claim I lynched hapa. How can I possibly be scum?

On November 16 2012 10:16 Hopeless1der wrote:
iamperfection:

On your thrawn read, i want to know more about this before I'm willing to lynch him: