/replacement
I'll be following this game for sure but I'm not taking the obs QT just in case I get a chance to replace ^^
Forum Index > TL Mafia |
Djodref
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/replacement I'll be following this game for sure but I'm not taking the obs QT just in case I get a chance to replace ^^ | ||
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I'm really excited to join this game and I hope to give my best ^^ Shit what a crazy D1, I really regret for not having joined this game ASAP | ||
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GJ Hopeless | ||
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I'm quite sure Hope is not SK because it would have been totally dumb for a SK to kill such a scummy player when town is already at a good advantage. | ||
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I suspect Cross post and vote against BH to be WIFOM or an easy attempt to distance himself from his partner because a BH lynch was not happening D1 for sure. ##Vote Blazinghand | ||
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I don't think mafia would have roleblocked him because he's more likely to be an SK than JK in my eyes and mafia had great interest to let the SK do his job after a Bowser lynch on D1. So I think he is fake claiming to have been role blocked. And if you wait for a counter role block claim, it might never come because we have no idea if they are roleblockers in this game yet. | ||
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On November 16 2012 11:25 Clarity_nl wrote: His play is terrible, I agree. But no way he's scum. If he's SK that's fine, as long as he's not killing people at night. A JK claim as SK is still extremely unlikely in my eyes. The only reason marv considered it was because he retracted it, but he re-claimed. Why is there no way for him to be scum ? Given how disruptive his play is, I'm not going to discard totally this possibility. | ||
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I'm replacing thrawn. I guess marv was referring to thrawn play in Acme which was not really looking like its usual tow. Play as well. Why are you opposed to a BH lynch ? | ||
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Hopeless is as close as possible to be a confirmed vig. I have played with him in Looney and I don't feel him being very different from the town Hopeless I know. His breadcrumbs make sense and I don't see the SK wanting to shot one more scummy player after bowser lynch on D1. Town reads on zbo and DP confirmed by the fact that they were likely to be mislynches pushed by the mafia. Slight town reads on Clarity and debears because I know them both quite well and I didn't get bad vibes from their posts so far. Newbie town read on Kickstart. I didn’t look into his filter much because. So I usually get good reads on newbies | ||
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I have to look again at S&B again though... Anyway I don't see how we can loose this game now so I would almost expect the last scum to concede now. | ||
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On November 16 2012 13:30 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 16 2012 13:25 Djodref wrote: I want to lynch BH because he is not showing town behavior at all. Trolly and disruptive, fakeclaiming, backing off and claiming again. I understand it's unlikely to display such play as scum but it would be the same from a JK. I have to look again at S&B again though... Anyway I don't see how we can loose this game now so I would almost expect the last scum to concede now. we are not lynching blazing hand in the foreseeable future. Ok, I'll try to convince you that we should lynch him today anyway. | ||
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I don't see why the last scum would have also been on your wagon. Could you elaborate ? | ||
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On November 15 2012 11:00 Dandel Ion wrote: Final Votecount: DarthPunk (1): thrawn2112 Z-BosoN (5): Clarity_nl, marvellosity, Crossfire99, strongandbig, Hapahauli debears (1): Hopeless1der Hapahauli (6): Z-BosoN, Blazinghand, debears, iamperfection, Kickstart, DarthPunk Hapahauli has been lynched! [b]@ Z-BosoN Your last post at the attention of DarthPunk has reinforced my town read on you. When I look at the votes with the information we have at our disposition right now, it's difficult for me to believe that all the scumteam was stacked on your back, especially when you look at the votes one hour before the lynch. On November 15 2012 10:55 Dandel Ion wrote: [blue]votecount: DarthPunk (2): thrawn2112, Kickstart Z-BosoN (8): Clarity_nl, marvellosity, DarthPunk, Crossfire99, Blazinghand, strongandbig, iamperfection, Hapahauli debears (1): Hopeless1der Hopeless (2): Z-BosoN, debears [blue]Currently, Z-BosoN is set to be lynched! Why would all the scumteam vote against you when you have a minimum of 5 town votes against you ? Having 2 confirmed mafia players against you makes me think you were certainly a mislynch pushed by the mafia. But the fact that you had a total of 8 votes one hour before the lynch leads me to think that the mafia could have seen it as a done deal. That's why I think that one vote transfer against Hapahauli in the last hour before the lynch could have been done by the last scum (I think BH) because there was [b]no risk at all to cast his vote on Hapa in an attempt to distance himself. Nobody could have foresaw this outcome so I'm not going to take any of the votes against Hapa as a towntell, especially the early non committing ones, at the exception of the hammer from DarthPunk. | ||
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On November 16 2012 15:17 Blazinghand wrote: Take a look at the timestamps on those votes, Djodref-- they were all made within the span of the last couple of minutes before the lynch. Nobody knew how many votes where on anyone else and we were getting hit with flood control. Everyone on the Hapa wagon was town. My bad, I've fucked up while reading the timestamps. So we have 8 votes against Z-Bo at 5 minutes before the lynch so it just reinforces the fact that it looked like a sealed deal for almost everyone. On November 15 2012 10:55 Dandel Ion wrote: votecount: DarthPunk (2): thrawn2112, Kickstart Z-BosoN (8): Clarity_nl, marvellosity, DarthPunk, Crossfire99, Blazinghand, strongandbig, iamperfection, Hapahauli debears (1): Hopeless1der Hopeless (2): Z-BosoN, debears [blue]Currently, Z-BosoN is set to be lynched! <snip> Nevertheless, I cannot explain myself your votes before the lynch. You clearly vote against Hapa, which is the same vote as Z-Bo, who you think is scum !! I don't see any town logic for you to switch from Z-Bo to Hapa. The mafia motivations I see for this are:
On November 15 2012 10:46 Blazinghand wrote: ._. curse you DP for casting doubt into my heart. I'll just shoot you tonight with all my vigi bullets then ##unvote ##vote ZB On November 15 2012 10:56 Z-BosoN wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote hapahauli Is what I meant. On November 15 2012 10:56 Blazinghand wrote: You know what, fuck it, let's vote him. I'll go back to ZB if need be. ##unvote ##vote: Hapa | ||
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On November 16 2012 15:19 Blazinghand wrote: And like, I'm an uncontested blue claim in a way that makes no sense for scum, and I voted for and lynched Hapa. I really don't get why you're so stuck on me-- clearly you're just wrong, because nobody's being convinced. If you think SnB is town, that's fine, but make a case on someone other than me. I'm not getting lynched and honestly you're wasting your time and ours with this stuff. I'll spend my time the way I want and I'll write a case against you because I think it is worth it. I don't have any lessons to receive from you because you have clearly made people waste a lot of time on your filter... And I think I know why your claim is uncontested (I'll put everything in my case when I come back home tonight), and I don't care if it makes no sense for scum to play like you when you are playing in a way that makes even less sense for town. | ||
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On November 16 2012 16:04 Blazinghand wrote: Like at the very least, talk about other people in addition to talking about me cause right now I can't get a read on you other than "shitty" If you were really reading the thread, which I doubt you do, you could have noticed this post already. On November 16 2012 13:20 Djodref wrote: Let me start with some quick post about my town reads. Hopeless is as close as possible to be a confirmed vig. I have played with him in Looney and I don't feel him being very different from the town Hopeless I know. His breadcrumbs make sense and I don't see the SK wanting to shot one more scummy player after bowser lynch on D1. Town reads on zbo and DP confirmed by the fact that they were likely to be mislynches pushed by the mafia. Slight town reads on Clarity and debears because I know them both quite well and I didn't get bad vibes from their posts so far. Newbie town read on Kickstart. I didn’t look into his filter much because I usually get good reads on newbies | ||
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On November 16 2012 16:12 debears wrote: I agree with BH Djo. Why the fuck would the mafia lynch the godfather and their best player on day 1 with a last minute voteswing when they could easily stay on z-bo? The thing is it was really safe for a csum BH to switch to Hapa with 8 votes against Z-bo at 5 minutes before lynch. | ||
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First things first, BH play is not town-like. Could we at least agree on this one ? Secondly, when you look at C9++, from which the setup of our game is derived from, the roles of the mafia team are given after that the roles for the town are decided. So the mafia team have more info than us about the roles. My point is that for a goon, goon, GF scumteam, it is not so risky for a troll goon to claim JK, as it is less likely to have a real JK. Thirdly, voting against Hapa could have been a soft bus vote rather than a real bus vote because a Hapa lynch was unlikely to happen. Nobody could have foresaw it, especially with the Kickstart switch coming from nowhere. | ||
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I don't like this at all and I'm not dropping this case until people start to realize that he is likely to be a goon after all. It's still early D2 so I'll get some time to consider other players so please don't try to shush by stating that a BH lynch is not going to happen. | ||
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His play makes him likely to be scum. But I understand that it doesn't seem possible for him to be scum. My point is that's just it, it doesn't seem likely! | ||
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Would he be a good lynch for d3 or d4 ? | ||
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On November 16 2012 18:49 Clarity_nl wrote: I have issues, okay? I think I misunderstood this post. You didnt mean reading issues right ? | ||
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On November 16 2012 13:05 Z-BosoN wrote: Djodref, I want to hear your every thought. First off, why are you voting bh? I´m not sure about your reasoning. Do you agree with my post on the likelihood of scum being on my wagon? What do you make of that assessment? Also, besides blazinghand, who else would you say is scum, and why? Ok, I think it is a good time now to share my thoughts. Regarding my BH vote, I think that it is important for everyone to realize that it is possible for him to be scum. I don't want people to discard a BH lynch because his jailkeeper claim is undisputed and because he lynched Hapahauli. At least, I want him to be considered as a lynch candidate, hence my vote. Now I understand that it's unlikely that we lynch BH today but I'll keep on promoting his lynch. We have already 2 confirmed scum on your wagon when you have 8 votes 5 minutes before lynch time. If they wanted to push a mislynch on you, there was no need of a third scum. It's true that nobody switched back to you when people started to vote Hapa but some people were not present and/or not able to react in time. Regarding the players on the Hapa wagon, I don't see why they should be automatically town as BH and debears seem to think. Hapa lynch was unlikely to happen when you look at the situation 5 minutes before the lynch and it could have been a smart for a scum player move to jump on the Hapa wagon at this point (because I think that Z-bo would have flipped town) and to cast a distance vote on Bowser, if you were thinking that this wagon was going to fail anyway (as it should have been, imho). Now here are my thoughts on the remaining players Blazinghands Top Scumread I want the town to consider at least as a lynch candidate for today. S&B Scumread Given his D1/N1 play, I'm not opposed to a S&B lynch right now, even if he has not my preference. Nevertheless, I didn't have time to look really carefully at his filter nor the cases against him and that's the first thing I'm going to do after I finish this post. I think I'm going to have a lot of opportunities to discuss his case today and to reevaluate my read on him. DarthPunk Townread, not planning to spend some time on him today
Clarity Back to null read, need to look at him closely today I like Clarity posts and case so far but I've also noticed that he was against a Crossfire lynch after Crossfire case against BH and he tried to convince people not to swicth their votes at the last minute. Hopeless Confirmed town Confirmed vig at 95%, I'll reconsider if he survives until a LYLO situation or if we have a SK kill. Iamp Null read, need to evaluate him I didn't take the time to look at iamp yet. Nothing stroke me in his posts when I was out of the game but I'm not considering this as a good sign. I need to look at his filter today. Kickstart Town read, not planning to spend some time on him today Newbie town read on Kickstart so far. I've been quite good at these kind of reads so far so I'm not planning to spend some time on him yet. Z-Bo Top Townread, not planning to spend some time on him today
debears Slight Townread, need to reevaluate I globally liked debears participation and contribution when I was reading the game (i.e not playing). Nevertheless, I don't like how he states that all the players on the Hapa wagon are town. I don't like how he defends BH neither. Need to re-evaluate. | ||
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This is your second game right ? So we just have your previous scum game for comparisons I had a slight town read on you because you don't have the same behavior than last game, I've mentioned it in this post + Show Spoiler + On November 16 2012 13:20 Djodref wrote: Let me start with some quick post about my town reads. Hopeless is as close as possible to be a confirmed vig. I have played with him in Looney and I don't feel him being very different from the town Hopeless I know. His breadcrumbs make sense and I don't see the SK wanting to shot one more scummy player after bowser lynch on D1. Town reads on zbo and DP confirmed by the fact that they were likely to be mislynches pushed by the mafia. Slight town reads on Clarity and debears because I know them both quite well and I didn't get bad vibes from their posts so far. Newbie town read on Kickstart. I didn’t look into his filter much because. So I usually get good reads on newbies I was reading the thread before replacing but not following it very closely. I need more time to check iamp and you... | ||
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On November 17 2012 00:08 debears wrote: Show nested quote + On November 17 2012 00:03 Clarity_nl wrote: So why the 180 on me? Kickstart is cute? I remember you saying that about me in the last hour of night. Because of process of elimination makes you a top target. You and snb are my top targets. Djo I find you town @ debears Even if I agree with your conclusion, your logic is wrong because thrawn was not around the lynch deadline. You cannot guess (and me neither) what he could have done in reaction to the sudden Hapa wagon. Were you sure that Hapa was going to get lynched when you switched your vote on him ? | ||
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On November 16 2012 23:01 debears wrote: Show nested quote + On November 16 2012 18:17 Djodref wrote: It pisses me off that you don't want to consider a BH lynch given his prestation for all D1/N1. I understand that it is not likely for him to be scum given the circumstances but I think that he has taken advantge of it to auto proclaim himself ”confirmed town” when his play shows the opposite. I don't like this at all and I'm not dropping this case until people start to realize that he is likely to be a goon after all. It's still early D2 so I'll get some time to consider other players so please don't try to shush by stating that a BH lynch is not going to happen. Are you sure you aren't scum? Again, poor wording from my part. I understand why you don't consider likely for him to be scum given the circumstances. But I want you to focus on his play rather than the circumstances because he looks very scummy apart from this. | ||
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On November 17 2012 00:26 Hopeless1der wrote: I think we're at 9v1 with no SK, and setup speculation says there's at least 1 more blue besides myself, Z-bo and BH (assuming we're all telling the truth). Yes, I count miller as a blue. Unless a townie claims the block on BH, it means scum have Kamek remaining and C9++ requires 0, 1, or 2 "T's" to have Goon, Roleblocker, Godfather (and possible SK). That means 5 'rolls' went towards blue's. I don't know how that ends up working out since Vig's are all one-shot and doctors are JK's instead, but I think there is at least 1 unclaimed blue. I don't want to mass claim because its not likely to get us much more to work with. I'm pissed that I can't ask thrawn why he was being un-thrawny. He specifically referenced the fact that Hapa and Marv should have been on his case and now they're all gone. I need djo to get off of BH for a moment and find scum elsewhere. He seems to be barking at clarity for the moment, so I'll see how that goes. My point is that we don't know how many "T's" we have got for this specific game but that the mafia team would have had a better idea of it given their roles. I can imagine that a fake jailkeeper claim is less risky from a goon if the mafia team is goon, goon, godfather. | ||
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@ Clarity This is your second game right ? So we just have your previous scum game for comparisons I had a slight town read on you because you don't have the same behavior than last game, I've mentioned it in this post [spoiler][QUOTE]On November 16 2012 13:20 Djodref wrote: Let me start with some quick post about my town reads. <snip>[/QUOTE] @ Clarity Can you confirm me that is it indeed your second game and explain me why you don't like last minute shenanigans ? | ||
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On November 16 2012 22:51 Djodref wrote: @ Clarity This is your second game right ? So we just have your previous scum game for comparisons <snip> @ Clarity Can you confirm me that is it indeed your second game and explain me why you don't like last minute shenanigans ? And regarding the fact that we have 3 scums, I'm pretty sure that it's the standard for this setup. It's a very safe assumption which we can work with ^^ Regarding the 8vs1vs1thing, this is the main reason why I would have difficulties to believe in a SK Hopeless. | ||
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On November 17 2012 00:50 Clarity_nl wrote: They don't end well. I like sticking to solid logic rather than let emotions make decisions for you, and last minute shenanigans are just that, emotional decisions. This would be my third game, kinda. I got modkilled for sending Rad a PM in my first game. Yeah but this creates confusion and it can be a great opportunity to catch scum. I think it would have been more difficult to find you last game if not for the Cheesecake situation which was also last minute. I think it's difficult for scum to fake emotional last minute decisions (I personally think that intuition and rationality still take a small part). How do you think we found you last game ? | ||
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On November 17 2012 00:58 debears wrote: Show nested quote + On November 17 2012 00:27 Djodref wrote: On November 17 2012 00:08 debears wrote: On November 17 2012 00:03 Clarity_nl wrote: So why the 180 on me? Kickstart is cute? I remember you saying that about me in the last hour of night. Because of process of elimination makes you a top target. You and snb are my top targets. Djo I find you town @ debears Even if I agree with your conclusion, your logic is wrong because thrawn was not around the lynch deadline. You cannot guess (and me neither) what he could have done in reaction to the sudden Hapa wagon. Were you sure that Hapa was going to get lynched when you switched your vote on him ? Who would be sure? All I knew is that 3/4 others said they were down to switch right away and we all did immediately. My point is that it was not enough at that time to change the outcome of the lynch. Kickstart switch was totally unexpected (@Kickstart - I know you made a case against Hapa during D1 but you didn't show any intention to switch at that time, correct me if I'm wrong). If one scum was in the early voters, it was a calculated risk for him and not such a big one. There was a risk to lynch Hapa but the reward was not to be on Z-Bo wagon for after a possible green flip. I think our view differ so much because I didn't experience it live. I was not involved in the game at that time and I have only a cold thread to refer to. But still I think you shouldn't use such a hard logic regarding who lynched (or not saved) Hapa. | ||
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On November 17 2012 01:01 debears wrote: Show nested quote + On November 17 2012 00:27 Djodref wrote: On November 17 2012 00:08 debears wrote: On November 17 2012 00:03 Clarity_nl wrote: So why the 180 on me? Kickstart is cute? I remember you saying that about me in the last hour of night. Because of process of elimination makes you a top target. You and snb are my top targets. Djo I find you town @ debears Even if I agree with your conclusion, your logic is wrong because thrawn was not around the lynch deadline. You cannot guess (and me neither) what he could have done in reaction to the sudden Hapa wagon. Were you sure that Hapa was going to get lynched when you switched your vote on him ? Djo, if thrawn was scum, and hapa was gonna get lynched, I don't see any reason for him not to be there to switch his vote. However, yes if thrawn was just not around as scum that is plausible. I find it unlikely but plausible Thrawn was around, my bad. I didn't see his post in all the spamming stuff Anyway, I have a good reason for any scum to not save Hapa at this time. Imagine you are scum, one of your teammate is under a lot of pressure (something like a last minute bandwagon against him at the end of D1), do you want to jump into the flames to save him and be the first one to be lynched when town finally flips him (because town eventually will if your partner escaped a lynch in extremis) or do you want to stab him in the back ? I know you are the kind of "jumping into the flames" scum (Dandel Ion hard defense in NMM XIXX, I remember ) but you know that it was bad play... | ||
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I've eliminated the possible "bad guys" setup that we can face with one goon and one GF already dead. Scum Roles TTTTTTT = Goon + Godfather, Serial Killer -- probability < 1% TTTTT = Goon + Godfather, Serial Killer -- probability around 16,5% TT = Goon + Roleblocker + Godfather -- probability around 16,5% T = Goon + Roleblocker + Godfather, Serial Killer -- probability around 5,5% 0 Ts = Goon + Roleblocker + Godfather -- probability < 1% To sum up, it is quite likely that we have still a role blocker or a SK in this game, 3 times more likely than to have both of them. I didn't realize that it was possible to have only 2 mafia players but if we have one, it's a role blocker for sure. We have roughly 57% chances to have a mafia role blocker against 43% to not have one. So, my conclusion is that, if BH is fakeclaiming, there was no way for him to know if the fakeclaim was "safe" or not. I was wrong on this point. His claim is not reasonable from a town point of view but even less than from a scum point of view. I'll try to get the probabilities to have a jailkeeper with us in the different configurations. | ||
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On November 17 2012 03:54 Djodref wrote: Guys, I have done more research about the C9++ setup (Keir confirmed me that he used the same "T's" to get the mafia roles) and it turned out that I was wrong. First of all, a goon, goon, GF team cannot exist and the mafia team can only guess the number of power roles but not their specificity with the data they have at their disposition (i.e. the composition of the team). I've eliminated the possible "bad guys" setup that we can face with one goon and one GF already dead. Scum Roles TTTTTTT = Goon + Godfather, Serial Killer -- probability < 1% -> in that case, no JK TTTTT = Goon + Godfather, Serial Killer -- probability around 16,5% -> in that case, 19% chances of a JK TT = Goon + Roleblocker + Godfather -- probability around 16,5% -> in that case, 40% chances of a JK T = Goon + Roleblocker + Godfather, Serial Killer -- probability around 5,5% -> in that case, 46% chances of a JK 0 Ts = Goon + Roleblocker + Godfather -- probability < 1% -> in that case, 52% chances of a JK To sum up, it is quite likely that we have still a role blocker or a SK in this game, 3 times more likely than to have both of them. I didn't realize that it was possible to have only 2 mafia players but if we have one, it's a role blocker for sure. We have roughly 57% chances to have a mafia role blocker against 43% to not have one. So, my conclusion is that, if BH is fakeclaiming, there was no way for him to know if the fakeclaim was "safe" or not. I was wrong on this point. His claim is not reasonable from a town point of view but even less than from a scum point of view. I'll try to get the probabilities to have a jailkeeper with us in the different configurations. I've added the probabilities for a jailkeeper in the possible different setups that we have. | ||
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It's quite a risk to take. I still don't like BH play at all but I understand better why we shouldn't lynch him today. I hope someone else find the setup speculation interesting ^^ ## Unvote | ||
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On November 17 2012 04:16 iamperfection wrote: djo can you take a very close look at S&B filter and tell me what you think. You said you didn't take a real close look before but i am curious to see what you think. Also pay special notice to the "VT" claim post and the reactions around it if you would be so kind. @ iamp I think everybody valued the following post too much. It's not possible for me to say it was a genuine townslip or something done on purpose. I can see this kind of thing done by both alignments and it cannot really be used against him because he doesn't looked forced in my eyes. After that, the rest of his filter contains too much fluff and not enough contents for my taste. I'll come back with a case against him tomorrow if you don't mind because it's almost 5am here and I need to get some sleep On November 13 2012 10:02 strongandbig wrote: also fuck you zboson i wanted to fakeclaim miller as vt since then people couldn't say "oh he's fakeclaiming miller must mean he's scum" when i fakeclaim miller as scum but now if i did that people would be like "two millers what are the odds" and then probably lynch you so no good on that one | ||
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I still believe you are town. The latest cases against you so far revolve mainly around meta, and your defense seems honest in my eyes. Moreover, I personally think that meta arguments should be used as the icing on the cake and not as the core of a case against someone. So I'm sorry to tell you that you are going after me for bad reasons. The first one, of course, is that I'm town and the second one is that you are going after me based on thrawn actions, which I cannot really respond for. I'm not saying at all that you guys should dismiss all the previous thrawn posts when looking at me but I think it should also be the icing on the cake rather than the core of the case. Regarding thrawn, I would like to say that Keir told me that he had a valuable excuse for getting replaced. If you have followed the Acme game and especially D5 when thrawn gets mislynched as a 1-shot Cop, you can see also that his activity doesn't fit his town play and that he doesn't show a great motivation for the game. I think something is really going on in his life and I hope he'll come back in a better shape to keep on playing with us. Anyway, the points 1, 2 and 3 in your case still stand but I cannot really answer for them unfortunately. If you really want, I can try to imagine what led thrawn to post this way (there is definitively townie motivations because I know he was town ) but I think I should better leave it like this. I would appreciate that you drop your charges against me because I think you are innocent and I know I am. But if you really want to come after me, I would suggest you to make a case I can defend myself against and add the thrawn points as the icing on the cake. I think it should be fair like this | ||
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On November 17 2012 10:51 Blazinghand wrote: + Show Spoiler + On November 17 2012 10:47 Z-BosoN wrote: Show nested quote + On November 17 2012 10:39 Blazinghand wrote: I'm feeling more confident in ZB though. This isn't town ZB. Seriously, I've about had it with these meta reads. Fuck off. Read this: Show nested quote + On November 16 2012 13:47 Z-BosoN wrote: DP, I know it's your wet dream to catch me as scum. But look at what you are suggesting. 1. I risked claiming miller and thus a potential counter-claim. 2. I pursued BH to the point he had to claim because I made good arguments, because scum are very insistent like that. 3. On my dying post, I told everyone to lynch hapahauli in day 2, you know, because I'm a scum who wants to help town. Then, in the night, I said crossfire, my other teammate, was the best lynch for today. 4. Hapahauli tried very very hard to defend his scum mate, even wanting to open up skype chat logs. Because that's what scum do right? Openly try to save their buddies. 5. I expected that town would sway from lynching me, someone with a marv case on him, to hapahauli, who hadn't been under any real threat at all in the game, with less than 10 min to go when I made this post: + Show Spoiler + On November 15 2012 10:55 Z-BosoN wrote: LYNCH HAPAHAULI. LYNCH BLAZINGHAND. when he is alive day 3. marv, hope you learn you are not the fucking god of mafia, and see that meta reads are only worth it if it isn't fucking obvious stylistic proven logical and pre-claimed reasons. Just so I'd come out looking good. All this makes perfect sense because... of meta. That's it. Not a single thing all game, just... meta. And even in that regard, I've extensively covered that. Hapa felt like he needed to help, because it's something that I'd discussed with him and he would look bad if he didn't say anything about it. I even mentioned this before marv's case on me (I got sniped, but time difference should confirm I couldn't have possibly written all that in such little time.) so that means I'm self-aware of this meta thing, and decided to play like that anyway. Sniped post: + Show Spoiler + On November 15 2012 09:01 Z-BosoN wrote: Show nested quote + On November 15 2012 08:47 Blazinghand wrote: On November 15 2012 08:34 Blazinghand wrote: On November 15 2012 08:30 Z-BosoN wrote: Sigh... please make it easy to respond to. I´m not scum and I´m pretty fed-up with having to defend myself every single game being town. "wahh i'm pretty fed up with having to play forum mafia whenever i play forum mafia" For what it's worth this is like the scummiest thing ZB has done this game It's cause you don't know the context. My main problem as town is that people think I'm scum every. single. time. Every past game I've played on, I've been receiving shit based on misinterpretations, things I've said that were confusing, and mismatched other things I have said. I got VERY frustrated because I was playing mafia and I spent like 70% trying to not get lynched instead of scumhunting. So I've decided to change my playing style a bit, so the general populace stops twisting my unclear words. Hapa pretty much nailed it, as it was a topic I've discussed with him quite a lot: Show nested quote + On November 15 2012 08:32 Hapahauli wrote: Uhhh Z-Boson huh? That's interesting. He kinda peaced out of the thread after dropping his Hopeless case. Off the top of my head he is usually a bit more active in his town games and was a tad lurky in his scum game (can't draw conclusions from that though). I generally think his posts have been fewer in number but higher in quality. I'm inclined to think it's a stylistic change and not scummy given some of my previous conversations with him. And now I've been trying hard to read more, post less, but with more clarity and quality. And that apparently led marv to have a meta read on me, for "tone", despite me trying pretty hard to get shit right. That pretty much explains my QQ - no matter how hard I try, I'm found as scum every single fucking bitchass time, and this time even marv found it so. /rant Anyways, bring it on marv you slut. Reread please: + Show Spoiler + On November 15 2012 09:37 Z-BosoN wrote: Yea, so it's pretty much what I expected and actually said in my sniped post. Responses in red. Show nested quote + On November 15 2012 08:58 marvellosity wrote: Z-Boson Metarelated stuff. Let's a gogo. First of all, here's a sample post from him playing scum in Newbie XXIV. You'll have to excuse the length, but the point is it's length and effort. (quote) Also, here is Z-Boson's filter from that game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359489&user=28495 I was try-hard at the time, that was my first newbie game. That was a pretty tough way to play, so I abandoned it in favor of a more posty style (pretty much mimicking you). Notice there are a large number of big posts. Big posts with certain conclusions . All the time. Much as here. What's missing in Z-Boson's play this game? On October 21 2012 22:46 Z-BosoN wrote: On October 21 2012 13:13 DarthPunk wrote: Also his defense each time is oh you must be scum and trying to trick me. Nothing townie about it. And your 'meta' read is bleh. Haha, you don't say, eh DP? On October 22 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote: On October 22 2012 00:52 DarthPunk wrote: Also ZB. Postgame I would like to go through how you make such accurate reads on me all the time. It get's frustrating as scum. (and also hilarious) Oh-oh. This obviously-I'm-town post comes mostly from scum DP. Don't get so confident, I'm not dead sure on you yet! On October 22 2012 01:08 Z-BosoN wrote: Sniped by austin. There we are, finally. Now waiting for the two days of unforgiving tunneling from him Hello Keirathi! How goes your scum life? Any thoughts you would like to trouble us with? On October 22 2012 03:53 Z-BosoN wrote: k k Well, you really think he is scum and should insta-die before he's even had a chance to defend himself? I'm uncomfortable sending him to his grave like this... I'd like to know if you are scum. Think about it. It's the pro-town thing to do. If you are scum, it's pro-town because town will lynch a scum. If you are town, then it's pro-town that we don't have to kill you. Tell us On September 30 2012 13:32 Z-BosoN wrote: Oh god. Is there anyways I can mega-vote him? On September 30 2012 13:52 Z-BosoN wrote: I think someone has some real issues. Does liquid city have a psych ward? On October 02 2012 11:04 Z-BosoN wrote: Omfg austin really loves me. I'm just going to ignore you this time, I make an oath that your bad arguments will bother me no more. You also seem a lot more scummy this game. At least on LVII your arguments made sense, from an ape's perspective. Right now you just seem desperate. I, Z-BosoN, solemnly swear, to never defend myself from austin's scrutiny ever again. On October 22 2012 05:24 Z-BosoN wrote: Austin, holy shit. For the first time ever, I've successfully agreed with every single thing in your post, every single thing. /applauds Due to recent events though, Hapa is coming off pretty suspicious to me. This is a selection of quotes from GSL3 and Liquid City. I paste them all here to demonstrate Z-Boson's ability, and indeed propensity, to throw in light-hearted comments. He's not all serious all the time. Except that that style of play is exactly why people threw shit at me all the time. Every single godamn game someone would take something I said, compare it with something else I've said that is inconsistent, and use it to justify me being scum. These light-hearted posts were the reason I spent more time defending myself than actually scumhunting Look at his filter here. Can you find that? At all? No, not really. It's completely absent. Arguably, this is it: On November 13 2012 09:41 Z-BosoN wrote: Regarding DarthPunk, don't worry, if he's scum, I'll figure it out Right at the beginning. I find his attitude towards DP... not townie. There's a lack of interaction from Z-Bo towards DarthPunk that I wouldn't expect from townie Z-Bo. It's a jest, as I'm usually correct about DP's alignment. On November 13 2012 11:20 Z-BosoN wrote: DP, that's the second time you've voted for him without saying why. This won't do. It goes from the above, to: On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote: Why not DarthPunk? He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though. He finds him a 'good lynch', but he makes it clear that he's not using the referring to self as mislynch thing as scum. Is it that he's bitchy? Is that a scumtell? Who knows. He's "interested" to see how he goes in Day 2 though. The wording is just... ick. I've done this "Why not xxx" in an attempt to organize town and consolidate on a lynch (kind of the opposite of what you are doing). That kind of wording problem is what I have to pay more attention to. To be honest, I just wanted to say that DP is scummy, but I'm not gonna use my " DP scum-o-meter" yet, as I don't yet have a solid read on him (due to the low amount of posts he has). I didn't spend much time on him because I was more focused on Hopeless. On November 15 2012 08:21 Z-BosoN wrote: Had some internet problems.. Luckily it was on control C. In reply to marvs other post: On November 15 2012 06:14 marvellosity wrote: On November 15 2012 06:13 Z-BosoN wrote: On November 15 2012 06:06 marvellosity wrote: On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote: Why not DarthPunk? He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though. i hate this. what's your read on him and why? He can definitely be scum. The reasoning is above. I'd rather lynch Hopeless. Perhaps instead of "Why not DP?" just read "DP" and interpret that as a secondary assessment. I'd rather lynch Hopeless though, my post says it all. I find it interesting how you hated my bit on DP, instead of my bit on debears, your main lynch candidate. Is there anything else you want to add while you are at it? Do you agree with what I said? I'm finding you kinda scummy all of a sudden actually. "He can definitely be scum" is not a read, by the way. Anyone can definitely be scum. Isn't it fucking obvious that I mean that to me he has a good chance of being scum, especially given what I've written on him? 10x better than your "I'm finding you kinda scummy" which adds shit to the thread. If Hopeless is a 10, DP is a 7, go with that. Try answering the question now? I phrased it very clearly and I find it important enough that I insist. Anyways, Hopeless´s meta explanation makes sense, and that was my main issue with him. Right now I´d rather lynch DarthPunk. Gonna let marv finish to see if he will/will not change my mind. ##Unvote There's weird things going on in this post. "If hopeless is a 10" to "his meta explanation makes sense". He defended himself using context, and I agreed with it, these two games are on extremely differnet circumstances. Hopeless then posted his reads which were pretty reasonable and I decided my meta case was not so strong. Generally, given Z-Bo's intimate familiarity with DP's play and his meta, there seems to be no discernable effort to make any read on him on that basis. Z-Boson is calling DarthPunk scum right now, but there's no supporting evidence of games previously played. I don't buy it. I didn't choose yet to make an effort on him, because I didn't want to lynch him yet, because he has way too few posts for me to do that. I was gonna attempt to make a case on him right now, due to my change of heart on hopeless, and will do so if I see that I'll be all right (logic here is. If me town dies, then 100% town will come out losing. If me town lives, the % chance of town coming ou losing is the % chance I'm wrong) Also I bolded that other line where he says I should answer just because I find the wording completely unnatural. "I find it important enough that I insist". I find it important that you questioned my assessment on DP, and not debears, your top scum read. That led me to believe you agreed with my assessment on debears, and was going to be important for me to completely decided whether or not I would stick to my not wanting to lynch debears agenda. Dunno what you understood from that. None of this play looks like Z-Boson's town play. When he is townie, he is very indecisive about who he wants to lynch. Just look at his filter in GSL3 or Liquid city. Liquid City his vote jumped around more times than I can count and with great uncertainty, and even his final vote he still seemed clueless. And in GSL3 he agonised for days on everyone before finally voting for someone. Here there is no... communication with town, trying to figure things out properly. It's BAM, BlazingHand is scum. He pursues BlazingHand - and make no mistake, he can pursue very well as scum, check the filter I gave you. Then when BH is off the table, he comes back today with BAM, Hopeless is scum. As quoted there's the absence of Z-bo interacting in a lighthearted manner with town that I am familiar with. His filter is short, with long posts, rather than longer, with lots of short posts figuring things out. ##Vote: Z-Boson So yea, basically it sums up to the change in my style I've talked about. You're gonna have to accept that the way I was playing before was a detriment to my gameplay, and made me frustrated, because too much of my time was wasted defending myself (which takes A LOT more time than scumhunting, for me). I tried doing that in GSL: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376602¤tpage=4#73 but failed miserably. What happened? Hapa picked up on some inconsistent stuff I said lightheartedly and BAM, huge clusterfuck of back-and-forths based on something that could easily have been avoided should I have been less posty. Also, a bit of WIFOM. I remember my scum game, and I looked at the feedback from the obs qt. This part of my meta I'm completely aware of, so why would I not choose to replicate is as scum? Basically, you are gonna have to decide whether: A) I, ask scum, didn't realize that me as townie posts a lot more and a lot more lightheartedly and posted in my natural scummy way here. B) I, as town, actually did attempt execute the change of style I extensively talked to hapa about, in a way that makes sense (as you yourself have seen from my past town games), and in a way that's actually better, and more like it's said in XXX analysis (which I reread at times of frustration). So, please analyze the actual content and the actual effort Im putting in this game (note my pushing of BH, it shows extensive signs of reading and carefulness in my wording and logic... such in a way that you agreed with it) instead of this "he's posting less!!!" argument. Also, I have much less time to play now, exam weeks coming up ahead, and am trying to make the most of it. Yep. Z-BosoN = townie. It's there, it makes sense, and you should pause and think about how silly would it be for me to be scum. Like, I'm a mega-bussing fakeclaiming scum who was extensively defended by his scumbuddy (hapa, at that.), and then was bussed by him as soon as I said he was scum? 0 sense. Turn conspiracy theory goggles off for one second and you'll see reason, I guarantee it. If you really think I'm scum make a fucking case that explains why I would bus my fucking teammate in a death post and say my other teammate was the best lynch. Stop fucking saying meta meta meta and starting saying fucking scum-motivation and town-motivation. Goddamn, enough conspiracy theory and start using occams razor. There's no risk of a miller counter-claim in a game with a godfather, or at least it's a low risk. You know what, there are similar chances to have a miller than to have a jailkeeper in a game with a godfather Show me the math 2. I pursued BH to the point he had to claim because I made good arguments, because scum are very insistent like that. Admittedly, this is a point in your favor. The fact that you immediately believed my claim and unvoted though is a mark against you. Everyone else was very skeptical except for like you, Hapa, and clarity. As scum you WOULD know it was a true claim. I personally think that your claim was ill-timed enough that even scum player would doubt it and think it's coming from a SK or a trolly VT (that is, if you are not scum). But you may have a point here. Nevertheless, if both Z-Bo and Clarity believed it, that means that at least one town player reacted this way. 3. On my dying post, I told everyone to lynch hapahauli in day 2, you know, because I'm a scum who wants to help town. Then, in the night, I said crossfire, my other teammate, was the best lynch for today. Um, if you were gonna die anything you said as you died is WIFOM and you know it. Crossfire was scummy as hell and bussing him D2 is completely fine scum play. No points for you here. I agree, this is WIFOM territory 4. Hapahauli tried very very hard to defend his scum mate, even wanting to open up skype chat logs. Because that's what scum do right? Openly try to save their buddies. Hapa returned checks as town. And honestly, yes, scum DO try to save their buddies unless it is neccessary to bus them. We don't know what Hapa motivations were but we know that the skype chat logs are real and they are coherent with Z-Bo defense for his change in his meta. Occam's razor tells me: it's simpler that you, playing near-exactly to your scum meta, are scum, than you playing near-exactly to your scum meta is town. You haven't been playing bad- just scummy, just like you always do as scum @ BH Some comments in bolded font in one of your post I didn't like. | ||
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On November 17 2012 10:32 Hopeless1der wrote: Show nested quote + On November 17 2012 10:15 debears wrote: Does anyone know the odds of a miller being in the setup with: 1) a jk/scum rb 2) a vig 3) a gf I don't feel like crunching actual numbers, but that setup would only require: MVD #### M=mason/miller. 1 M usually means innocent child, but that was replaced by miller. V=Vig - All are single shot, so this roll is questionable as to how it gets handed out D=Doctor/Jailkeeper 4 "unknown" rolls, however, some may need to be duplicates to actually generate the blue. Therefore I`d estimate an additional 2 blues in this game. As always setup speculation is tedious and not worth that much in the grand scheme of things when playing a semi-open setup. I think we should leave it alone unless someone claims scum through attempted setup-based manipulation. Show nested quote + On November 17 2012 10:28 iamperfection wrote: On November 14 2012 08:45 Hapahauli wrote: On November 14 2012 08:40 Blazinghand wrote: yeah the ZB defense imo tells us more about iamp than it does about ZB-- but either way neither of them a good lynch today Yeah I'm looking at Thrawn and Kickstart atm. Thrawn's inactivity is pretty uncharacteristic of him so far. Kickstart as well dumped some suspicion on me and then peace'd out. I'm a bit more forgiving to Kickstart though as a first-time player. So let's get thrawn talking shall we? ##Vote Thrawn (Would love to hear from kickstart too, but more concerned with Thrawn atm) he did actually he just didn't mention cross. That damn near clears djo as far as association cases go. If we assume that all the claims so far are true, we have the following possibilities for our setup given the fact that one goon and one godfather are already dead.
So if we mass-claim and we have 2 full blues, it means that BH claim is a fakeclaim. If we mass claim and we have only one other blue, it means that there is no SK. If we mass claim and we have one blue and a 1-shot role, we have a SK. So basically, if someone has a 1-shot role, this guy should start to be wary of a SK. If someone is Cop, it should be not a bad idea to reveal himself at the end of D2 with his check and target. | ||
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On November 17 2012 13:38 Blazinghand wrote: look, to the other blue, if you want to claim this cycle, do it at the end of N2 during action resolution, or maybe if you're gonna get lynched or if you have a green check on someone who's gonna get lynched. Don't go listening to what jubjubs have to say about it. use your own judgement Sorry I meant at the end of N2 | ||
Djodref
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First of all, could you get my name right ? Call me Djo if you prefer but not Djoref Then is think that S&B brings good points against you (namely the "big plays" part and the insistence you have when you state that there is no way for you to be scum). If find it particularly odd that you attach so much value to your uncontested JK claim and that you dare to attack Z-Bo on his miller claim when the probabilities are quite similar. The fact that S&B goes so hard after you and that you attack him personally when defend yourself speaks for him and against you. So I would say that S&B is less scummy in my eyes right now while you got back to my top scumread. I think you just got lucky with your fakeclaim... On another note, I really don't like debears behavior lately, his 180 on you (he went as far as to vote against you) and also this post + Show Spoiler + On November 17 2012 09:36 debears wrote: Can we double lynch BH and SnB???? BH debears S&B | ||
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##Vote BH | ||
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On November 17 2012 13:42 Hopeless1der wrote: djodref, read the OP setup. No one-shot variants of anything, except all vig's are one-shot. Setup speculation needs to stop, it isn't catching the last scum. /agree with BH on save claims for later. At the earliest, during night resolution, but do not feel that you have to. I felt it was necessary for me to claim considering the amount of suspicion against me, and the fact that marv's top two scumreads got eliminated if my claim was true. It served a purpose to claim the way I did, it wasn't arbitrary or strictly to save my own ass (though this was a factor). Ok thanks. Regarding setup speculation, I think we obtained valuable information with the flip of Bowser and the fact that Z-Bo and you are likely town and not fakeclaiming. If I'm right about BH fakeclaiming and about Z-Bo and you, then the only setup possible would be this one MVTTTTT which gives us Goon + Godfather, Serial Killer which would mean that there is not a 3rd mafia player but a SK remaining. And this has roughly 40% chances to happen given the mafia flips. Somehow, a SK BH would make more sense than a scum BH, especially regarding Hapa lynch. What do you think ? | ||
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On November 17 2012 13:54 DarthPunk wrote: Your officially an idiot. I could tell you the same with your Z-Bo vote. | ||
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On November 17 2012 13:54 DarthPunk wrote: Your officially an idiot. @ DarthPunk Let's try to have some constructive discussion, shall we ? What do you think of the possibility for BH to be a very ballsy SK ? | ||
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On November 17 2012 09:36 debears wrote: Can we double lynch BH and SnB???? @ debears Can you explain me this post and your latest vote and unvote against BH in details ? | ||
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Yes, but you have to consider the fact that he was already on the radar of some players halfway through D1. It was a big risk to take but I think the reward is that town players don't want to lynch you anymore. Did he look more concerned by his survival or did he look more concerned by scumhunting during D1 ? | ||
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On November 17 2012 14:18 iamperfection wrote: i guess maybe if there were in fact 2 scum he could fake claim role block untill the end of time . but he had no guarantees for killing mafia day 1 and claiming jk would make him a prime target for mafia. True enough, I didn't consider the fact that he would have been a target of choice for the mafia. I'm going to drop this SK thing then. Anyway, if he is the third scum, he his 100% a role blocker and it makes sense for the roleblocker to claim JK, doesn't it ? | ||
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On November 17 2012 14:26 Blazinghand wrote: The fact that you now think I'm an SK instead of scum is... I don't even know what to say. Look, at least for the scum argument you could be like "He's the scum RBer so he could support his claim by using his RB power" or something. It would still be a retarded play but at least there is a path to victory for a scum fakeclaiming JK. I can't possible imagine how an SK could claim JK, and not, say, VIGILANTE, and that would be even remotely reasonable. Djoref I think you're wasting more of our time. If you're gonna point fingers at people at least... at least have it be plausible. come on, man. Yeah, you're right about the SK thing, I didn't think it through. But let's take a look again at your claim. It was halfway through D1 and you must have felt some pressure to claim, regardless of your alignment. Town motivations
Mafia motivations(you are the roleblocker in this case)
What I don't like at all is the follow-up you give to your claim. As S&B pointed it out, you keep on saying how uncontested your claim is and you lynched Hapa when it was not sure at all that you were going to lynch him. I'm not wasting my time, I want people to understand that you are scummy despite the circumstances ! | ||
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On November 17 2012 14:28 Blazinghand wrote: Well I'm glad we've cleared that up. Djoref you've promised us twice that you'd get a read on iamp, and mentioned you were reading up on him. What are your thoughts? I have a town read on iamp for the moment. His filter was difficult to go through because they a way too many short posts but the whole thing seems emotionally right to me. | ||
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On November 17 2012 15:02 DarthPunk wrote: We are not lynching BH until MAYBE after ZB DJO Clarity S&B are all dead. Continuing on that tangent is anti town. He has already 2 votes and debears has voted him during the exchange between S&B and BH. I'm going to push his lynch because you are wrong and I think I'm right. I don't care if I die in the process because we can afford some mislynch and you are going to understand that all my cases were genuine when I flip. | ||
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What do you really have against Z-Bo except for the meta part of your case ? Did you read the skype conversations ? | ||
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On November 17 2012 15:07 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 17 2012 15:06 Djodref wrote: On November 17 2012 15:02 DarthPunk wrote: We are not lynching BH until MAYBE after ZB DJO Clarity S&B are all dead. Continuing on that tangent is anti town. He has already 2 votes and debears has voted him during the exchange between S&B and BH. I'm going to push his lynch because you are wrong and I think I'm right. I don't care if I die in the process because we can afford some mislynch and you are going to understand that all my cases were genuine when I flip. Do you not understand that you are almost certainly lynching a blue? Does he behave like town ? No. As I've explained, there is only 40% chances for us to have a jailkeeper. It's far from being almost certain that he is indeed jailkeeper. | ||
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On November 17 2012 11:03 DarthPunk wrote: + Show Spoiler + On November 15 2012 10:50 Z-BosoN wrote: Also, if anyone is thinking of voting me, it is becasue you are blindly sheeping marv. Fucking read my defense, FUCKING READ WHAT I SAID REGARDING MY META. FUCKING READ WHAT HAPA SAID. It's a case based SOLELY ON META DP is acting VERY differently then when he is scum gettingl ynched. I want to unvote him and vote for hopeless. Also, if I for some godly reason to get lynched. Here are my reads: Hapa: scum scum scum. Gonna go after him day 2 should I live. BH probably scum. I can't fathom his claim AT ALL. Kill him should he be alive in like, day 3. Rest of everybody I'm not sure. Marv is prob town, an arrogant fucking one who can't see the reasonable explanation I've given, but he's pretty much town. ZB wants to vote hopeless whilst screaming that BH and HAPA are scum. On November 15 2012 10:51 Z-BosoN wrote: SIgh... looks like town decided to sheep a read to which I gave a perfectly plausible explanation. Lynch Hapahauli. That's about it. Can't fucking believe this. He then doesn't mention BH or hopeless at all and says we should vote HAPA. On November 15 2012 10:52 Z-BosoN wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote Hopeless1der At least in my future games, I'll be able to keep this much better and improved meta up. He then Votes for hopeless despite proclaiming Hapa is scum. He then says we should lynch Hapa despite not actually voting for him yet. On November 15 2012 10:55 Z-BosoN wrote: LYNCH HAPAHAULI. LYNCH BLAZINGHAND. when he is alive day 3. marv, hope you learn you are not the fucking god of mafia, and see that meta reads are only worth it if it isn't fucking obvious stylistic proven logical and pre-claimed reasons. This is like such an obvious WIFOM bomb. It was super obvious as soon as I saw it. He is not adding anything to the thread in terms of info or reads but is laying the framework for association WIFOM. On November 15 2012 11:13 Z-BosoN wrote: WHAT NOW?!?!?!?!?!?!?! DEBEARS FUCKING HIGH FIVE I'LL SAY WHY I THOUGHT HAPA WAS SCUM WHEN THIS IS OVER. This is like so easy to fake as scum. He says he will tell us why he thought hapa is scum later. As if he had some way of knowing. He promises to reveal them later. On November 15 2012 11:22 Z-BosoN wrote: Nah man, I figured he was scum due to totally different reasons than yours. I just didn't think we would have lynched him based on my arguments alone, and I didn't want to get in a verbal fight with him (he's so fucking difficult to deal with). His interaction with you I'd say was fairly regular. Let us compare dicks when the game is over though, and right now REJOICE!!!! Town fucking awesome. I fucking love you guys. I fucking fucking love you guys. YOU lynched hapa. And now the information we get is OUTSTANDING. Scum is almost 100% in my wagon (maaaaybe except BH, but nah, not voting him tomorrow). I'm obvious not fucking scum, my reads were obviously my last will. Fuck yea. Again he says here that he had some arguments for why HAPA was scum and they were different from debears. We are still waiting for his explanation though. And here it is On November 16 2012 02:47 Z-BosoN wrote: I thought hapa was scum, but since it was mostly gut feeling, I didn't think I'd be able to lynch him day one. I've indicated this in this post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=36#714 Also. ZB has several list posts in his filter which are not what I expect from town and scummy in general. Posts like these LINK LINK LINK LINK All list posts that contain some few meaningless statements and are the exact thing scum ZB posts which Town ZB does not. I am positive ZB is scum from reading his filter and knowing his meta and we must lynch him today. Your case revolves around the fact that Z-Bo didn't vote Hapa when giving us his last will where he tells us to lynch Hapa. I can see him voting for Hopeless in an attempt to save his life rather than vote for Hapa who had zero votes against him at this time. | ||
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On November 17 2012 15:13 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 17 2012 15:09 Djodref wrote: On November 17 2012 15:07 DarthPunk wrote: On November 17 2012 15:06 Djodref wrote: On November 17 2012 15:02 DarthPunk wrote: We are not lynching BH until MAYBE after ZB DJO Clarity S&B are all dead. Continuing on that tangent is anti town. He has already 2 votes and debears has voted him during the exchange between S&B and BH. I'm going to push his lynch because you are wrong and I think I'm right. I don't care if I die in the process because we can afford some mislynch and you are going to understand that all my cases were genuine when I flip. Do you not understand that you are almost certainly lynching a blue? Does he behave like town ? No. As I've explained, there is only 40% chances for us to have a jailkeeper. It's far from being almost certain that he is indeed jailkeeper. ZB is far far scummier than anyone else right now. He claimed miller. Usually that should be enough to lynch him right there. He very likely tried to WIFOM around scum HAPA in order to make him look good if ZB flipped red. The meta is fucking damning on top of it all. Lynching a Blue claim is newb play and is fucking stupid. You are being fucking stupid and anti town for pursuing this. Lynching an uncontested blue claim is as stupid as wanting to lynch an uncontested miller claim. What's with your double standards ? | ||
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Let's look at the two following players Blazinghands
Yet he is the last on your lynch list Z-BosoN
You want to lynch him today The probability for us to have a miller is roughly the same than the probability for us to have a JK. They both couldn't confirm their claims by any actions. Why can you not understand this ? | ||
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On November 17 2012 15:28 Blazinghand wrote: lol equating jk claim with miller claim what a guy Probability-wise, it's similar, and here it's the case because you failed to prove us that your claim is right, which I doubt. | ||
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On November 17 2012 15:31 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 17 2012 15:29 Djodref wrote: @ DarthPunk Let's look at the two following players Blazinghands
Yet he is the last on your lynch list Z-BosoN
You want to lynch him today The probability for us to have a miller is roughly the same than the probability for us to have a JK. They both couldn't confirm their claims by any actions. Why can you not understand this ? Yep. Your an idiot. Then you have to explain me precisely where is the flaw in my logic. If Z-Bo is indeed scum, it was a great risk for him to claim miller because he had roughly a 40% chance to be counterclaimed right away. And explain me why would he claim miller as roleblocker ? Why not claiming jailkeeper in this case if he wanted to fakeclaim at the beginning of D1 ? Why claiming when there was no pressure ? You are exactly the same idiot as I am. But the difference is that Z-Bo has showed more town traits than BH if you discard the meta thing. And for you to seriously believe that we nailed all the scumteam during D1 and N1... you are worse than me Z-Bo had two confirmed mafia votes against him, if he was bussed and plant WIFOM, why would he try to survive after all ? | ||
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Dandel Ion was mafia roleblocker in that game -> + Show Spoiler + On October 30 2012 05:32 Dandel Ion wrote: Okay, I'll make it easier on y'all I am Honda, some fat guy. AKA the roleblocker. Why am I claiming now? Should be obvious - I don't want to get mislynched, and that's what seems to be about to happen. Do you have the crumbz? Yes. + Show Spoiler + I actually forgot about the crumb at day 1 at first, and I only remembered the next morning that I should've crumbed it, which is why it's a bit later, and not in my first batch of posts. Rectifying this is quite literaly the first thing I do, then:link On October 25 2012 19:23 Dandel Ion wrote: Right on, I'M Back. [blablaba] Bolded. Not my brightest moment, but I was tired and couldn't come up with a better way to incorporate that. I also majorly stressed out about how easy that seems to spot, but it appears nobody did. Maybe the tricky "splitting R and B" is actually amazing. My night action was roleblocking Kush. He was my strongest scumread, and while it was unlikely even then, that scum would send Kush to kill, frankly, I just had no idea who else to block. I'm no JK, so I can't save people (I wouldn't have guessed Sylver anyways, so w/e) Context: It's night, I had posted my case on Kush. His response to it was saying "it's bad". That's it. After he posts his nonsense about how he won't be nightkilled now (something he does like to post as scum), I decide to roleblock him. Link On October 28 2012 00:03 Dandel Ion wrote: So you're saying, his meta is actually the same to you? After you tried to make it out as if there was some huge meta divergence? Right. I call Bullshit, Kushyboy. Pretty straightforward. To keep it in line with the first crumb, I capitalized the B again. ((I also almost never call people by "wrong" names ingame, except for situations like this, or if I'm really sure they are scum. Both applied here. But you can take that or leave it, it doesn't matter)) Nothing happened that made me want to change that, so I stuck with it. Why I was so fixated on Djo being the SK: Because, and this part is actually not the best argument, because it's not IMPOSSIBLE, just unlikely, but I thought JK+Cop+RB+Vig would be too much blue, so I practically eliminated the possibility of a Vig. and I got VERY leery of how Djo randomly jumped into the thread and started a NK speculation (in itself bad enough, since it's little more than fluff) AND started talking like it was a 100% certainity that Sylver was the scum KP AND he found a reason why Sylver was killed in, like, ~10 minutes after the flip (this was pointed out by somebody else, can't remember who). So where does this leave us? (from my perspective) Djo is still scum. Alsn made a case on me, so I feel the need to OMGUS him. He's also currently in the process of setting up Cheese as his next lynch, but I'm not sure where that puts him, since Cheese is null to me. Roco pretty much claimed scum by sheeping onto the current case, no reasons given. Then he vanished into thin air again. His actions stink like he was told what to do in a QT. I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't even read the thread himself. No matter what, he's an ABSOLUTE liability, even if he should actually be town. Nackht is looking more townish now, although the reasons why he finds Cheese scummy still elude me. Frankly, I didn't really understand that post. The reasons for Alsn are even more obscure, cause he didn't give any, looks like. Cheese is still pretty null to me. I'll have to read nackht's post some more and try to make sense of it... debears is likely town, though it's strange how he defends me so hard just based on meta. Honestly though, at this point, I don't have a problem with it. He dug all that stuff up (A for effort) and actually thinks about the game, unlike many others in here. Rad has given me no reason to not read him town, still. I believe his Vig claim, no matter the implications on the setup. Plus, since he claimed the shot, it'd be suicide for him to shoot somebody else. If he's actually SK, then he's pretty damn good at this game. I am also seriously pissed that nobody actually even aknowledged my defense, and Djo just spammed 2+ pages full of WIFOM bullshit oneliners instead. I have, to this point, not seen an actual REASON why I'm supposed to be scum, and I didn't want to claim just because nobody reads the thread. Also, really cool how nobody is even in the thread anymore. Guess I shoulda posted this even earlier... | ||
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Sorry guys I'm just waking up right now... Hangover and stuff, I'm catching up | ||
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On November 18 2012 08:37 debears wrote: Ok I'm going to go see the new bond. I'll poke in and out when I can I really need someone to give me the following setup odss: Vig, JK, Miller, GF, Goon, scum RB -> VJMTT** => one or two roles missing in your list, this setup is impossible Vig, JK, GF, Goon, scum RB -> VJTT*** => irrelevant now that Z-Bo has flipped and impossible Vig, JK, Cop, Miller, GF, Goon, scum RB -> VJCCMTT => the only possible setup that you have proposed so far Vig, JK, Cop, GF, Goon, scum RB -> VJCCTT** => irrelevant now that Z-Bo has flipped and impossible @ debears Here are your answers regarding the setup odds. Please check them in your quote. You need CC to get a cop and BB to get a town roleblocker. You are really more likely to get a cop than a roleblocker. The others roles (V for 1-shot Vig, J for Jailkeeper and M for Miller) have all the same probability to get rolled. We have more information now that we have a dead miller. Hopeless being close to be confirmed big, I think that a mass claim at the end of this night could help us to condemn or clear BH. This issue is important for me so I would like you to consider it seriously. But it's not my decision. In the case where BH claim is a fakeclaim The possible setups are
In the case where BH is JK The possible setups are
Considering this, I'm definitively up for a mass claim during the last hour of N2. It can be a great help to solve this game without shouting at each other for days and days. Please consider the following points.
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Mass claim at the end of the night ! Who is up for it ? | ||
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I would like to know what you think of the mass claim !!! | ||
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Z-Bo thought he found the cop, I think I also found him now and the probabilities indicate that a Cop is more likely than any other roles. I love math and I would love to solve a game by pure logic !! I think it is really worth it ! I'm getting excited now | ||
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I'm going to claim during the last hour of N2 ! Who is with me on this ? I would like to remind you once again the benefits of a mass claim !
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I would like you to read this post again + Show Spoiler + On November 18 2012 12:44 Djodref wrote: Show nested quote + On November 18 2012 08:37 debears wrote: Ok I'm going to go see the new bond. I'll poke in and out when I can I really need someone to give me the following setup odss: Vig, JK, Miller, GF, Goon, scum RB -> VJMTT** => one or two roles missing in your list, this setup is impossible Vig, JK, GF, Goon, scum RB -> VJTT*** => irrelevant now that Z-Bo has flipped and impossible Vig, JK, Cop, Miller, GF, Goon, scum RB -> VJCCMTT => the only possible setup that you have proposed so far Vig, JK, Cop, GF, Goon, scum RB -> VJCCTT** => irrelevant now that Z-Bo has flipped and impossible @ debears Here are your answers regarding the setup odds. Please check them in your quote. You need CC to get a cop and BB to get a town roleblocker. You are really more likely to get a cop than a roleblocker. The others roles (V for 1-shot Vig, J for Jailkeeper and M for Miller) have all the same probability to get rolled. We have more information now that we have a dead miller. Hopeless being close to be confirmed big, I think that a mass claim at the end of this night could help us to condemn or clear BH. This issue is important for me so I would like you to consider it seriously. But it's not my decision. In the case where BH claim is a fakeclaim The possible setups are
In the case where BH is JK The possible setups are
Considering this, I'm definitively up for a mass claim during the last hour of N2. It can be a great help to solve this game without shouting at each other for days and days. Please consider the following points.
When I'm speaking about a mass-claim, I want the VT to claim as well. There is not so many possibilities setup-wise when you have a Godfather-Goon-scum RB scumteam because this game is following the C9++ rules. So we know exactly how many blue roles to expect. If we have too many of them, then we have to lynch BH and it's going to be GG. If we have the right number of them, then I have to eat my hat and admit that BH claim is right. Am I clear enough ? | ||
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For reference | ||
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On November 18 2012 13:27 Kickstart wrote: I'm inclined to think a mass claim would get us nowhere. It really is up to each individual but I think we can make progress and move forward without needing mass claim. I just don't think we really need it as town at this point. Well, I have arguments that indicate that it would help us greatly to solve the game if not outright forcing the last scum to concede. But let me ask you these questions. Do you want to know if BH claim is fake or not ? Do you want to know if there is a SK or not in this game ? | ||
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On top of that, we are likely to have a cop so more confirmed town players in the process. The downfall is that we are going to out some blue payers but I don't think it really matters at this point. We are likely to be in a 7vs1 situation tomorrow so that mean that a scum would need 3 mislynches to win the game. It is not going to happen at all if we have the blues. It could be a problem if we have a SK but this is 3 times less likely than a no SK situation and we could start to hunt him if we know for sure that he exists. This game is all about information. As town, we know already for sure that
I'm pretty sure that a mass claim is going to give us enough data to help us win this battle of information And I think it's easier and faster than to look in details at more than 100 pages long game, and also a more beautiful way to solve this game (but this is personal preference ^^) I need the VTs to claim as well by the way. | ||
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On November 18 2012 13:35 Kickstart wrote: But some roles are just going to lye. How complicated would it be to figure out from there? Are you planning to lye ? Of course, we need all the town players to tell the truth, especially the blue roles. Now, we have only one or two bad guys left. Their choice is to lye about being VT or about being blue. If they lye about being blue (like I suspect BH to do already), we are just going to have too much blues for this setup. Let's consider the following cases. We end up with more blue roles than it is possible We lynch BH first and it is likely to be GG at this point. If not, which I doubt, we lynch the other guys that are most likely to be a lying about their roles. We 3 lynches to find the liar. Easy enough, I would say. We end up with blue roles which make sense setup-wise It means that the bad guy(s) are in the crowd claiming VT. But it also mean that the blues are confirmed. Especially if we get a confirmed cop, we can get more town players confirmed. The scum has to hide in the VT unconfirmed players. That reduces our scope of search greatly and helps us to solve the game for sure What do you think ? | ||
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But more importantly, I'm quite sure that we are going to have too many blues if we follow this mass-claim plan so I hope that I could finally get you to lynch BH ^^ | ||
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The mass claim is going to give us or sure the following information. BH fake claiming or not Presence of a SK or not I was out yesterday night and I couldn't wake up for the lynch but my vote would still have been on BH. He is my top scumread and we need to lynch him to win this game in my opinion. I was not going to lynch Z-Bo because he was one of my town read and I'm sorry for not having been here to defend him. And I was not going to lynch S&B because he is on the same page on me regarding BH. So I was not going to change my vote anyway. I've tried to talk with DP and debears about it but they were not listening. I'm quite disappointed that they called me stupid and stuff. Honestly, the town atmosphere could be better if people were realizing that they are discussing with other fellow townies most of the time. | ||
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I need to know why you want to lynch me and what you are thinking about my mass-claim plan now that I gave more precision. @ Clarity Do you want to know if BH claim is fake or not ? Do you want to know if there is a SK or not ? Would you say that Hopeless is confirmed Vig ? Would you like to have more confirmed town players ? | ||
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On November 18 2012 14:29 Kickstart wrote: I think other layers look more town than you. Come to think if it, if it came down to it BH should go before you imo. So 1st snb 2nd djo 3rd BH And how you interpreted me saying that some roles are going to lie (namely scum and SK if there is one) as I am going to lie I don't know Djo. @ Kickstart I was being sarcastic with the question "Are you planning to lie?". I always forgot that sarcasm doesn't work really well on internet forums Anyway, if we mass-claim, one or two guys are going to lie. If BH is not already lying, then they have no choice but to claim VT. So we can focus only on the unconfirmed VT players. Seriously, the game is going to be freaking easy if we follow this plan. Are you still not convinced ? If not, please read my posts again and also the page about the C9++ setup. | ||
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On November 18 2012 14:41 iamperfection wrote: s&b like wtf man you just disappear like wtf dude. I know my little mini case on you is kind of silly with the dota thing is crazy but you could at least call it stupid. DO YOU CARE s&b. Bh think about your action critically please i will lead the wagon of justice against you myself if you make another dumb play this game. Also DP want to hear your thoughts in light of zbos flip is clarity who your still thinking now because i dont really see it. djo i know you think setup speculation but please do some traditional scum hunting before dawn. I will post updated thoughts in the 1 hour grace period like last time. I will probably be quieter tomorrow because weekends are bad for my mafia play but i will be here 100% during that grace period. @ iamp I'm sorry but I don't think that we need traditional scum hunting if we mass-claim. Why would you want to read in details 130 pages of posts when you can use simple logic to find the bad guys ? Are you in or not ? Anyway I want to lynch BH tomorrow so I'll bring a case against him. S&B is on my side so I'm not inclined to lynch him... I am a bit wary of debears right now because he has been a little stupid wrt the Z-Bo lynch and this is not something I expect from town debears. But it's sunday and he has a long filter and I think there is a better way to solve this game. | ||
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On November 18 2012 14:43 Clarity_nl wrote: How does mass claiming confirm that there's an SK? I think hopeless is 98% vigi and I will not lynch him until lylo, or if we lynch the scum and the game doesn't end. I'm thinking about the mass claim, but it's hard to justify exposing all our blues. I'll go along if others do. @ Clarity I think that Hope is Vig even if we obtain the proof that there is a SK with a mass claim. Are you familiar with the C9++ setup ? If not, I recommend to have a careful look at this page. It's quite interesting and I think this is something you have to know if you want to be a better player and/or if you want to host a game sometime. Anyway, here is the most interesting part regarding the setup, given our current situation. To sum up, the scum roles are a function of the number of "T" letters you obtain when you pick 7 letters in between the following letter probability set. T = 1/2 D = 1/10 (in our game, the "D" letter gives us JK roles) V = 1/10 (one-shot Vigs only) M = 1/10 (mason and miller roles) B = 1/20 (town RB roles) C = 3/20 (you need two "C" letters to have one fully operational Cop in the game) Please note that one of the letters in our rolled set for this game is M and that one other is V (Hopeless). Let's take a look at the different possibilities for the scum roles. Scum Roles a 7 "T" letter set is impossible because we have at least one "M" impossible because we would already have won the game TTTTT = Goon + Godfather, Serial Killer This setup is possible only if one of BH or Hopeless is lying and is the remaining SK. I think we can safely discard this possibility unless we are at lylo with BH or with Hopeless. Moreover, there are only 2 mafia in this setup and no more blues on top of Hopeless and BH, even if one of them is lying. MVTTTTT or MDTTTTT if you want. impossible setup because of Bowser flip impossible setup because of Bowser flip TT = Goon + Roleblocker + Godfather I think that this is the setup we are in (and it is the most likely probability-wise, something like 40%). It leaves the room for 2 or 3 more blues on top of Hopeless, information that we can be confirm with a mass-claim. T = Goon + Roleblocker + Godfather, Serial Killer (Investigation Immune OR 1-Shot Bulletproof) This setup has roughly a 15% probability to happen. It can also be confirmed with a mass claim but it would leave us in a dangerous position with all the blues revealed for the SK and the remaining scum. But we would know for sure that there is a SK and start looking for him seriously. Anyway, it is less likely to happen. 0 Ts = Goon + Roleblocker + Godfather This setup has only a 5% probability to happen. We would have enough blue to outright solve the game. Is there anything stil unclear ? The more I think about it, the more I think that mass claiming at the end of the night is our best move but I need everyone participation. I beg you to seriously consider it. | ||
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On November 18 2012 15:04 Clarity_nl wrote: Currently the holy town trinity is iamp, hope and myself. Currently the scum that looks to be buddying up with a scummy town to look more towny is Djo or SnB. Currently Kickstart, Darth, debears, blazing are ALL not contributing. And it's driving me up the goddamn wall. @ Clarity I don't understand where you coming from with the "buddy" think. Could you be more explicit ? I'm trying to get everyone participation in my plan to win this game, that's all. And I also think it would be better for town atmosphere if people would stop to insult each other and start to listen at each other more. And that makes sense because it is likely that we have only one bad guy left. | ||
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On November 18 2012 15:29 Kickstart wrote: I don't feel like saying much more tbh, nothing has changed. We should not have lynched ZB we should have lynched SnB, this is how I felt then and how I feel now and it is how I will vote. I still am not sure how mass claim will clear anything up Djo. Here is how it will work: Bh claims JK, hope claims vig, everyone else will say VT. We don't require a claim to figure out that this is how it will turn out. My point is I think we are just as well off not claiming but again, if a majority of people want to then whatever I will as it makes no real difference to me, I just don't think it will shed as much light on the situation as you do. @ Kickstart This is impossible, please read my posts in detail. | ||
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On November 18 2012 15:01 iamperfection wrote: Show nested quote + On November 18 2012 14:55 Djodref wrote: On November 18 2012 14:41 iamperfection wrote: s&b like wtf man you just disappear like wtf dude. I know my little mini case on you is kind of silly with the dota thing is crazy but you could at least call it stupid. DO YOU CARE s&b. Bh think about your action critically please i will lead the wagon of justice against you myself if you make another dumb play this game. Also DP want to hear your thoughts in light of zbos flip is clarity who your still thinking now because i dont really see it. djo i know you think setup speculation but please do some traditional scum hunting before dawn. I will post updated thoughts in the 1 hour grace period like last time. I will probably be quieter tomorrow because weekends are bad for my mafia play but i will be here 100% during that grace period. @ iamp I'm sorry but I don't think that we need traditional scum hunting if we mass-claim. Why would you want to read in details 130 pages of posts when you can use simple logic to find the bad guys ? Are you in or not ? Anyway I want to lynch BH tomorrow so I'll bring a case against him. S&B is on my side so I'm not inclined to lynch him... I am a bit wary of debears right now because he has been a little stupid wrt the Z-Bo lynch and this is not something I expect from town debears. But it's sunday and he has a long filter and I think there is a better way to solve this game. was i being unreasonable? Do it and ill do the mass claim. Also wouldn't it feel double nice if after your traditional scumhunting you catch them with setup speculation? double win see. @ iamp Actually, that's a good argument. If you don't mind, I'll try to explain the concept one more time to Kickstart and Clarity because they are here and is seems to me that they don't see how mass claim would greatly help us to solve the game. I'll look at debears after that | ||
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On November 18 2012 15:31 Kickstart wrote: EBWOP IF there are more blues, it is up to them to claim as their claims are the only thing that will make your plan work, and really that is up to them. @ Kickstart That's not really true. Because if we have enough VT claims, the blues are going to be outed anyway. That's why I want to discuss this plan beforehand. I understand that the blue decision should be more important but it can force them to claim if enough people are following the plan. Do you understand now how it is going to allow us to know is BH claim is fake or not ? Do you understand now how we can be sure if there is a SK or not ? | ||
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On November 18 2012 15:38 Clarity_nl wrote: How about you actually let us think about it rather than spamming the thread with giant posts that just repeat all the other giant posts you've made. @ Clarity You know my style But that's ok, I'll give you some time. Please take the time to check the link I gave, it's quite interesting ^^ | ||
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I hate to admit it but you have a point here. The decision is in the hands of the blue players. But I disagree with the fact that I should not try to convince them to claim because I think it would give us enough information to solve the game. I want to influence their decision and I don't see what is wring with that. If you were another blue in this game, what would you think of my plan ? | ||
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On November 18 2012 15:55 Blazinghand wrote: Djoref you're still opting out of serious scumhunting discussion with your specious claim-strats, setup speculation, and unnatural tunneling of me. I gave you a pass for 72 hours to get your shit together, and I'm really not seeing it. Is your transition here really to try to out a blue who doesn't want to be outed? The blues make their own decisions, not you. @ BH My claim strat is not specious, it's likely that it would end the game for us. But I understand that you don't want to admit the validity of it. My tunneling is not unnatural. Most likely, there is only one bad guy left. You fit the profile so I want you dead. I'm not going to give you any rest until you are lynched or manage somehow to show me that you are indeed a town player. I'm quite the stubborn and tunnely type ^^ | ||
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Please consider all my posts I've made to show how much a mass claim strategy would help us. I think you have now enough arguments at your disposition so you take your decision. I'll drop this subject now unless someone asks me directly a setup-related question. | ||
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On November 18 2012 16:13 Blazinghand wrote: <snip> You may think I'm scum, but surely you don't think it's a 100% chance. And by the way you're playing, I, and many people who do in fact not think I'm scum, can't get a townread on you. What do you want me to do, man? I'm not one to push people to acknowledge they could be wrong, but even when I am pushing a guy close to lynch time, I tell him to give out some final reads in case he flips town. I account for the possibility of being wrong. I guess I'll put this plainly: If you don't make cases on anyone else and if continue as you are now, I'm lynching you tomorrow. End of story, you're out of the game. This one is actually correct, it's not a 100% chance because it you have an uncontested JK claim for the moment and I might be wrong after all. There is a way to know for sure if we can believe this claim or not but I understand now that it is not my decision. I'm back to scumhunting now I suppose. Actually, your latest posts made sense so I'll look seriously into debears before the deadline. | ||
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On November 18 2012 16:52 Blazinghand wrote: 4 blues like high-quality blues, like JK Vigi DT DT? I'd be pretty surprised if that was the setup, but if it's possible according to the setup generator whatever. Really though, it should be up to the blues to claim or not claim regardless, not up to us. @ BH Actually, having 1 Cop takes two "C" letters and having 2 Cop takes four "C" letters in the 7 letters set that defines our game. So we don't have two cops for sure. | ||
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On November 18 2012 16:58 Clarity_nl wrote: Okay. I agree with the fact that blues should choose whether to claim or not. If they plan on claiming, during the resolution would be the best time. If a blue claims during resolution, remaining blues (if they exist) should claim and all the vt's should claim. What do you think, Djo? I agree with that. I totally agree with that. I've done enough already to convince them that they should claim. It's up to them now | ||
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Ok, I've just read Kickstart filter one more time and I have still a town read on him. But there are some things I don't like in his filter, especially during D2. It's still a town read but I'm not as sure as before. Why I'm still leaning town on him
What I didn't link in his filter
The points against him are not strong and I hope that he can provide good explanations for them. I think that he got lazy during D2 and this is something I can understand given the flips so far. My conclusion is that he is a first time player, which I'm leaning town on, and that it could be quite difficult for him to keep up with all what happens in this very active game but I hope than he can provide good play as he did during D1 and I would be satisfied with that. | ||
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I disagree, it could be a good strategy for a possible SK to retain his night kills until we manage to find the last scum. What does make you think that a possible SK would kill tonight ? | ||
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Shit, I have just missed you. Anyway, it was a long time ago but I still want have some details about what happened in your head during the exchange between S&B and BH at D2. Especially I want to know why you posted this. On November 17 2012 14:08 Djodref wrote: @ debears Can you explain me this post and your latest vote and unvote against BH in details ? | ||
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On November 18 2012 18:18 debears wrote: Show nested quote + On November 18 2012 17:59 Djodref wrote: @ debears I disagree, it could be a good strategy for a possible SK to retain his night kills until we manage to find the last scum. What does make you think that a possible SK would kill tonight ? 1) Assuming that the SK isn't hopeless, he could put doubt on hopeless' claim. 2) it's what, 8/7 town to 1 scum/sk or 1 scum and sk 3) The longer the game goes on, the harder it is to conceal a guilty conscience/push your agenda as sk/mafia @ debears 1)That's actually a good point. I don't think that hopeless could be SK even with another kill because he killed Crossfire and that would have been against a SK interest. But I've just realized that there was no way for a SK Hopeless to know for sure that Cross was scum when he decided to kill. By the way, would you yourself doubt Hopeless claim if we have 2 kills again tonight ? I remember that Hopeless was on your radar during D1. 2)That's also a good point. But it depends on the strategy you would choose as a SK. I don't know about it... 3)I disagree with this one because a possible SK would not know who the last scum is better than us. He would have no other thing to do than to scumhunt hard while not killing anyone and hope to survive until lylo. You don't have any guilty conscience if you didn't kill anyone, right ? | ||
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Did you send some PM to Hapa for coaching when you were scum in our last newbie game ? Keir was with you in the scum QT but he joined later on iirc. | ||
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I was assuming that the letters have been rolled and rolled again until you got something fitting the modified rules for this game, was I correct ? @ S&B On November 19 2012 01:04 strongandbig wrote: <snip> TTTTT, I don't think we can discard. We can no longer tell any difference between the three possible scenarios: BH is lying and is the SK, BH is lying and is the last scum, and BH is telling the truth and there is a scum RB'er. This means we could have TTTTTMV, BH is the serial killer, and there are no other blue roles. <snip> I appreciate to have someone to speculate this setup with. I agree that we should not totally discard TTTTT because one of BH or Hopeless could be fake claiming and be a SK but it doesn't make sense for any of them. Especially a blind fake JK claim from a SK during D1, it is clearly a suicidal move. What do you think ? | ||
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On November 19 2012 00:55 debears wrote: Show nested quote + On November 18 2012 18:50 Djodref wrote: On November 18 2012 18:18 debears wrote: On November 18 2012 17:59 Djodref wrote: @ debears I disagree, it could be a good strategy for a possible SK to retain his night kills until we manage to find the last scum. What does make you think that a possible SK would kill tonight ? 1) Assuming that the SK isn't hopeless, he could put doubt on hopeless' claim. 2) it's what, 8/7 town to 1 scum/sk or 1 scum and sk 3) The longer the game goes on, the harder it is to conceal a guilty conscience/push your agenda as sk/mafia @ debears 1)That's actually a good point. I don't think that hopeless could be SK even with another kill because he killed Crossfire and that would have been against a SK interest. But I've just realized that there was no way for a SK Hopeless to know for sure that Cross was scum when he decided to kill. By the way, would you yourself doubt Hopeless claim if we have 2 kills again tonight ? I remember that Hopeless was on your radar during D1. 2)That's also a good point. But it depends on the strategy you would choose as a SK. I don't know about it... 3)I disagree with this one because a possible SK would not know who the last scum is better than us. He would have no other thing to do than to scumhunt hard while not killing anyone and hope to survive until lylo. You don't have any guilty conscience if you didn't kill anyone, right ? 1) I would strongly look at Hopeless if another kill showed up. However, in my thought process, it would be fucking retarded for a SK to claim vig n1. Think about it. He would paint a target on his back for the mafia by being a confirmed town 2 and 3) Djo, it's a proven fact that, the longer the game goes on, the worse it is for the anti-town alignments. It gets so much harder to hide @ debears 1) I agree with you on this one. Would you say that your D1 history with Hopeless is over then ? 2) and 3) You got me convinced that the SK is going to kill tonight and maybe have double-stacked his kill on marv yesterday, if he exists of course. On a side note, you said that you wanted to auto-lynch S&B tomorrow but I'm not sure if you mentioned other scum reads lately. What do you think about BH post on Clarity ? | ||
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On November 19 2012 01:32 Clarity_nl wrote: Wait Djo you think BH is JK now? @ Clarity No, I don't think that he is JK yet but I have some doubts since his last contributions. I'm a little less inclined that he is scum. He was right about the blues, it has to be their decision. And I liked his contribution about your interactions with Hapa during D1. Did I make a clumsy post again ? | ||
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On November 19 2012 01:35 strongandbig wrote: hopeless can't be fakeclaiming, because then someone would have had to be around to roleblock BH - only BH can be fakeclaiming. And as for your other point, I think that it's not necessarily a suicidal move if you (a) think you can get away with it, or (b) don't really think you can / want to try to win normally as SK in the first place Basically, I still think BH's claim makes as much sense from an SK as it does from an actual town jailkeeper. @ S&B Regarding the impossibility for Hopeless to fakeclaim in TTTTT, you have a good point, I didn't think about that. Regarding BH being a SK with a jailkeeper claim, I cannot really believe it. You are supposed to play to win after all ^^ So I'm going to assume a third scum from now on. Anyway, I hope that the blues are going to out themselves so we can know all this for sure. | ||
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On November 19 2012 01:32 Clarity_nl wrote: Wait Djo you think BH is JK now? @ Clarity Were you talking about this post ? + Show Spoiler + On November 19 2012 01:25 Djodref wrote: Is it possible to know how the single-shot roles were handled ? I was assuming that the letters have been rolled and rolled again until you got something fitting the modified rules for this game, was I correct ? @ S&B Show nested quote + On November 19 2012 01:04 strongandbig wrote: <snip> TTTTT, I don't think we can discard. We can no longer tell any difference between the three possible scenarios: BH is lying and is the SK, BH is lying and is the last scum, and BH is telling the truth and there is a scum RB'er. This means we could have TTTTTMV, BH is the serial killer, and there are no other blue roles. <snip> I appreciate to have someone to speculate this setup with. I agree that we should not totally discard TTTTT because one of BH or Hopeless could be fake claiming and be a SK but it doesn't make sense for any of them. Especially a blind fake JK claim from a SK during D1, it is clearly a suicidal move. What do you think ? If yes, TTTTT is a setup where there is no more scum but only one lonely SK left. And in this case, it would necessarily would be BH because he would be fake claiming JK. I brought up this possibility once and the only one inclined to believe it is S&B. According to me, it is just a possibility but I cannot believe in it. I know that BH has a large penis but I cannot even imagine the ball size you need to pull off a play like this. | ||
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Would you agree that if our setup is TTTTT and that BH is SK then he automatically loses this game ? I mean, you have a "confirmed" JK going into MYLO or LYLO, getting role blocked every night with no evidence of any other blue role, then this "confirmed" JK has to go. BH at LYLO + no other blue (dead or alive) = automatically lynch BH If people remember this, then we can safely forget the TTTTT setup for the moment | ||
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It's getting late in Korea though and I have to work tomorrow. But this game is keeping me awake so I'll wait. In the meantime @ Clarity You did ask me about Kickstart and I hope that my answer satisfied you. What is your read on him ? | ||
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On November 19 2012 00:47 debears wrote: Show nested quote + On November 18 2012 18:40 Djodref wrote: @ debears Shit, I have just missed you. Anyway, it was a long time ago but I still want have some details about what happened in your head during the exchange between S&B and BH at D2. Especially I want to know why you posted this. On November 17 2012 14:08 Djodref wrote: On November 17 2012 09:36 debears wrote: Can we double lynch BH and SnB???? @ debears Can you explain me this post and your latest vote and unvote against BH in details ? For two vets, they have both ridiculously underperformed. They have been obnoxious. I was getting tired of it. And hell, chances are one of them is scum (more likely SnB imo) On November 19 2012 01:54 debears wrote: Show nested quote + On November 19 2012 01:36 Djodref wrote: On November 19 2012 00:55 debears wrote: On November 18 2012 18:50 Djodref wrote: On November 18 2012 18:18 debears wrote: On November 18 2012 17:59 Djodref wrote: @ debears I disagree, it could be a good strategy for a possible SK to retain his night kills until we manage to find the last scum. What does make you think that a possible SK would kill tonight ? 1) Assuming that the SK isn't hopeless, he could put doubt on hopeless' claim. 2) it's what, 8/7 town to 1 scum/sk or 1 scum and sk 3) The longer the game goes on, the harder it is to conceal a guilty conscience/push your agenda as sk/mafia @ debears 1)That's actually a good point. I don't think that hopeless could be SK even with another kill because he killed Crossfire and that would have been against a SK interest. But I've just realized that there was no way for a SK Hopeless to know for sure that Cross was scum when he decided to kill. By the way, would you yourself doubt Hopeless claim if we have 2 kills again tonight ? I remember that Hopeless was on your radar during D1. 2)That's also a good point. But it depends on the strategy you would choose as a SK. I don't know about it... 3)I disagree with this one because a possible SK would not know who the last scum is better than us. He would have no other thing to do than to scumhunt hard while not killing anyone and hope to survive until lylo. You don't have any guilty conscience if you didn't kill anyone, right ? 1) I would strongly look at Hopeless if another kill showed up. However, in my thought process, it would be fucking retarded for a SK to claim vig n1. Think about it. He would paint a target on his back for the mafia by being a confirmed town 2 and 3) Djo, it's a proven fact that, the longer the game goes on, the worse it is for the anti-town alignments. It gets so much harder to hide @ debears 1) I agree with you on this one. Would you say that your D1 history with Hopeless is over then ? 2) and 3) You got me convinced that the SK is going to kill tonight and maybe have double-stacked his kill on marv yesterday, if he exists of course. On a side note, you said that you wanted to auto-lynch S&B tomorrow but I'm not sure if you mentioned other scum reads lately. What do you think about BH post on Clarity ? As I said, I've found clarity's posting weird lately, especially with his certainty on what z-Bo was going to flip. There was a reason z-Bo was up for lynch, there's only 1 scum/sk most likely. How was clarity so sure he was town? Why didn't he hard defend him more if he thought z-Bo was town? That, and yes, Clarity's interactions with Hapa are weird. Djo I've been getting townie vibes from u lately, so I'm thinking it's down to SnB and Clarity right now, with SnB in the lead @ debears I'm a little sad that you switched from S&B and BH to S&B and Clarity. Could you tell me what changed your mind ? Are you dropping BH for real or just for the moment ? I've been thinking about BH lately and I think that we can get him setup-wise at the end if he is a bad guy. I mean, SK or scum, he would have to go at LYLO and his fake claim could be proved because the rightful blues would have been revealed at this point (dead or claimed blues). What do you think ? | ||
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On November 19 2012 02:33 strongandbig wrote: It depends on how Keirathi resolved one-shot roles. If he just turned them into VTs, then BH would say that the setup is TTMVVDC or TTMVVDD, and that he's still "confirmed jailkeeper" but there were no other blues. If Keirathi either (a) turned one-shot roles into full roles, or (b) re-rolled any setup that had one-shot roles in it, then yes I agree, a serial killer automatically loses at LYLO when there are no more blue roles. @ S&B Well then I hope that we could get our answer from Keir then. For me, the (b) solution was making a lot of sense so I automatically assumed it to be true. Thanks for your input. I'll try to stop to speculate too much on the setup from now on even if I enjoy it very much. I'll come back to it if we get the answer from Keir or if the blues decide to claim tonight. | ||
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I hope to see some posts from DP, Hopeless and Kickstart when I wake up ^^ Game is not over yet guys ! | ||
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Its efficiency is going to depend on how the one-shot roles are handled. If they are removed, we are nit going to get valauble information imho. Night all ! | ||
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I'm just waking up and I'm already late for work. I'm not going to be able to post anything during the last hour tonight. So disappointed... Regarding debears, I found some things damning in his filter. He is definitively on my scum list right now.
I'll explain everything later but I have no time right now | ||
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GG debears... I guessed he was cop, I had found his crumb in his filter when I was checking it at iamp demand. He thinks he had checked Hopeless... So I've tried to look suspicious of him to avoid him being killed. Still I would have preferred him to claim. That's not good for us | ||
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On November 19 2012 11:36 strongandbig wrote: yeah if there are no other claims then you and bh are confirmed bh is still terrible though Wait ! What about the only one T and zero T setups? Are you sure ? | ||
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On November 19 2012 11:52 iamperfection wrote: no the point is he was being more suspicious of debars to help him survive but he said he didn't see the crump untill i told him to go look. I saw the crumb but I kept acting like I was suspicious of debears... Does that make more sense ? | ||
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I found the crumb after you told me to go traditional scumhunt. The crumb is right after the start of D2. "MB <3" doesnt make any sense except for Mario Brothers. Mario found Luigi. | ||
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What do you think ? MB <3 is the crumb. @Iamp Regarding the zero T setups. Its highly unlikely first and second we would have already won the game imo. There is no roleblock, no additional vig shot, no claim after my mass claim plan. I was ciriois to see what S&B had to say about it and I would still like to have his input on single T setups. | ||
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I admit I didn't explain it well but I don't think its a good reason to vote for someone... On a side note, I think that our setup is MVCCDTT. This is what makes the most sense right now and S&B should know it as well. I'm totally dropping BH now. But if there is another blue, he has to claim noaw imo. | ||
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On November 19 2012 12:28 iamperfection wrote: Show nested quote + On November 19 2012 12:25 Hopeless1der wrote: On November 19 2012 12:22 iamperfection wrote: On November 19 2012 12:20 Hopeless1der wrote: That crumb does make sense. 0T is a possibility, I missed it in my machinations. Either a mason-pair or a second cop are the only options though. 1T is technically possible as well, but lack of NK's suggests otherwise so I didn't consider it. well ill help you out 0 T is not possible Actually statistically impossible or just really unlikely? Can you explain how it cant be? let me just make sure my thinking is right 0T means no vannila townies right? lol no, this is just wrong. CCCCCMM you would have two cops and two masons and 3 Maf and the rest would be VTs. | ||
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I wanted S&B to say this to me. I don't understand how S&B can have his vote on BH right now given the info we have. MVCCDTT makes more sense, in term of probability and in term of play. Your logic is fallacious right now S&B. Explain me how you can conclude that voting BH is still a good move now and I might unvote you. ##Vote S&B | ||
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On November 19 2012 12:36 iamperfection wrote: Show nested quote + On November 19 2012 12:28 Djodref wrote: Shit guys, are you actually voting me for this ? I admit I didn't explain it well but I don't think its a good reason to vote for someone... On a side note, I think that our setup is MVCCDTT. This is what makes the most sense right now and S&B should know it as well. I'm totally dropping BH now. But if there is another blue, he has to claim noaw imo. so no sk then right Yeah no SK in this case. We just have to find the last scum and we know for sure that he is not Hope and not BH. We still have 3 lynch to find him. It's too bad that debears couldn't confirm anyone else at the exception of the confirmed vig because it would almost have been GG right now then. If there is still one blue, I want him to claim now or I'm going to auto-vote him after. | ||
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On November 19 2012 12:45 iamperfection wrote: Show nested quote + On November 19 2012 12:44 Djodref wrote: On November 19 2012 12:36 iamperfection wrote: On November 19 2012 12:28 Djodref wrote: Shit guys, are you actually voting me for this ? I admit I didn't explain it well but I don't think its a good reason to vote for someone... On a side note, I think that our setup is MVCCDTT. This is what makes the most sense right now and S&B should know it as well. I'm totally dropping BH now. But if there is another blue, he has to claim noaw imo. so no sk then right Yeah no SK in this case. We just have to find the last scum and we know for sure that he is not Hope and not BH. We still have 3 lynch to find him. It's too bad that debears couldn't confirm anyone else at the exception of the confirmed vig because it would almost have been GG right now then. If there is still one blue, I want him to claim now or I'm going to auto-vote him after. look at me setup speculate like a boss Was that sarcasm ? My plan was quite good but I didn't take into account the Cop (I thought the cop was you when Z-Bo referred to the Cop for the first time, I thought that you had checked thrawn or BH N1) would not bring us confirmed townies with him. I'm quite impressed by this snipe from the mafia player and I didn't see it coming. But things should be easier now. Iamp, DP, Clarity, Kickstart, S&B The last scum is hiding among these players if I'm right about the setup. We have 3 shots to find him. Easy enough imo | ||
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Yeah, jokes and internet ^^ I was not offended anyway So, let me be clear this time On November 18 2012 13:09 Djodref wrote: Yeah but it could help us to be sure about BH claim and to know if there is a SK or not and get possible checks from N1 and N2. Don't you think it would be great to help us solve the game ? Z-Bo thought he found the cop, I think I also found him now and the probabilities indicate that a Cop is more likely than any other roles. I love math and I would love to solve a game by pure logic !! I think it is really worth it ! I'm getting excited now At this point, I thought that you (iamp) were the Cop Z-Bo was talking about. I thought that you investigated thrawn or BH N1 because you didn't want to lynch thrawn (after the replacement) and you were categorically opposed to lynch BH. On November 18 2012 13:49 Djodref wrote: Well, a mass claim would answer these questions On top of that, we are likely to have a cop so more confirmed town players in the process. The downfall is that we are going to out some blue payers but I don't think it really matters at this point. We are likely to be in a 7vs1 situation tomorrow so that mean that a scum would need 3 mislynches to win the game. It is not going to happen at all if we have the blues. It could be a problem if we have a SK but this is 3 times less likely than a no SK situation and we could start to hunt him if we know for sure that he exists. This game is all about information. As town, we know already for sure that
I'm pretty sure that a mass claim is going to give us enough data to help us win this battle of information And I think it's easier and faster than to look in details at more than 100 pages long game, and also a more beautiful way to solve this game (but this is personal preference ^^) I need the VTs to claim as well by the way. This post also shows that I suspect that there is a Cop. That's why I was quite insistent to convince you (iamp) to participate to the mass claim plan. So I followed your recommendation to scum hunt in a more traditional way. At this time, I had some suspicions regarding debears because of the Z-Bo lynch. On November 18 2012 18:40 Djodref wrote: @ debears Shit, I have just missed you. Anyway, it was a long time ago but I still want have some details about what happened in your head during the exchange between S&B and BH at D2. Especially I want to know why you posted this. Show nested quote + On November 17 2012 14:08 Djodref wrote: On November 17 2012 09:36 debears wrote: Can we double lynch BH and SnB???? @ debears Can you explain me this post and your latest vote and unvote against BH in details ? At this point, I didn't see the crumb and I was preparing a case against debears. I found quite interesting that he gave up his pursuit of Hopeless without considering the possibility for him to be SK too much. That's at this point that I found the crumb. I was not sure of it at all because I was still suspicious of him at this point and I was still thinking that iamp could be the Cop. Also I thought that Z-Bo could have been totally wrong in his Cop read (I know at least that he was wrong about me, and now most likely wrong about BH as well). So I have questions to debears regarding Hopeless... On November 18 2012 18:50 Djodref wrote: Show nested quote + On November 18 2012 18:18 debears wrote: On November 18 2012 17:59 Djodref wrote: @ debears I disagree, it could be a good strategy for a possible SK to retain his night kills until we manage to find the last scum. What does make you think that a possible SK would kill tonight ? 1) Assuming that the SK isn't hopeless, he could put doubt on hopeless' claim. 2) it's what, 8/7 town to 1 scum/sk or 1 scum and sk 3) The longer the game goes on, the harder it is to conceal a guilty conscience/push your agenda as sk/mafia @ debears 1)That's actually a good point. I don't think that hopeless could be SK even with another kill because he killed Crossfire and that would have been against a SK interest. But I've just realized that there was no way for a SK Hopeless to know for sure that Cross was scum when he decided to kill. By the way, would you yourself doubt Hopeless claim if we have 2 kills again tonight ? I remember that Hopeless was on your radar during D1. 2)That's also a good point. But it depends on the strategy you would choose as a SK. I don't know about it... 3)I disagree with this one because a possible SK would not know who the last scum is better than us. He would have no other thing to do than to scumhunt hard while not killing anyone and hope to survive until lylo. You don't have any guilty conscience if you didn't kill anyone, right ? I was still unsure of who the Cop was or if we really had one but debears was the closest to be one imo (especially the MARIO PARTY posts) so I decided to post this before the night action resolution to "protect" him. On November 19 2012 09:39 Djodref wrote: Guys ! I'm just waking up and I'm already late for work. I'm not going to be able to post anything during the last hour tonight. So disappointed... Regarding debears, I found some things damning in his filter. He is definitively on my scum list right now.
I'll explain everything later but I have no time right now | ||
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On November 19 2012 13:06 Blazinghand wrote: actually you know what I really can't criticize at this point, the setup analysis makes me confirmed town but really I could have figured that out when I said "hey guys there are 3 blues" like a million days ago. But yeah S&B lynch today imo @ BH Well, it was easier for you to figure it out than for us. Also you can totally have more than 3 blues with Keir setup generator. But I must admit that I was too stubborn when tunneling only you. I have to reconsider all my reads now. | ||
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On November 19 2012 20:16 Kickstart wrote: Yes it did, BH and hopeless are in the clear (although hopeless was cleared n1) who were people I was originally extremely suspicious of. Id say djos activity and sincerity about bh and wanting the mass claim, but his willingness to drop it and admit bh is as good as confirmed now puts him in a bit of better light. But I still feel the same about SnB, nothing has changed, the extra time has just given more of the same (he is completely inactive when there is no pressure on him, sure he posted a bit when he was gonna be lynched but that hardly tells us anything). Now once snb is gone things get a bit iffier for me, so I will have to read up on some people. @ Kickstart "Now once snb is gone things get a bit iffier for me, so I will have to read up on some people" What do you mean by this ? Don't you think that the game is going to be over when S&B dies ? | ||
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On November 19 2012 15:10 DarthPunk wrote: lynch Djo clarity and S&B and I doubt we could lose this. THis game is a pain in the arse to keep up with. Far too many posts most of them are useless and are just repeating what has already been said. I am going to look through the filters of those three players and see if I can come up with anything. @ DarthPunk And what reasons do you have to lynch me exactly ? It might be worth it for all of us that you look at everybody again. I'm expecting this kind of things from a guy who is on top of everybody town list. I would expect the same kind of things from the confirmed blues by the way. Your game in Acme is finished now (congrats by the way) and you should have enough time to spare with us now. | ||
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On November 19 2012 21:04 Kickstart wrote: I would hope so. But weren't talking about what's going to happen when S&B dies ? Do you just hope or do you have some real conviction that S&B is going to flip scum ? | ||
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I'm sorry I'm French and sometimes it's hard for me to understand some sentences and it's also hard for me to get properly understood ^^ "Now once snb is gone things get a bit iffier for me, so I will have to read up on some people." Could you rephrase it ? I'm not sure of what you meant... | ||
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On November 19 2012 22:46 strongandbig wrote: Show nested quote + On November 19 2012 12:37 Djodref wrote: Anyway, a zero T setup would have less than 1% chance to get rolled at the beginning in a classic C9++ game and the probability is even lower with Keir generator because the one-shot roles are replaced by Ts. I wanted S&B to say this to me. I don't understand how S&B can have his vote on BH right now given the info we have. MVCCDTT makes more sense, in term of probability and in term of play. Your logic is fallacious right now S&B. Explain me how you can conclude that voting BH is still a good move now and I might unvote you. ##Vote S&B The reason that I'm still voting BH is that I'm pissed off at him for insulting me and therefore I want him to die. If we have no more blue claims then he's pretty much confirmed by the setup possibilities - the blues we already know about mean the setup must at least include MCCV. That's only three letters, and a TTT setup wouldn't include a godfather, so there has to be at least one more letter. So either there is another blue, or we have TTMCCDV and BH is confirmed. Unfortunately. @ S&B Well, these are good reasons for putting your vote on someone but that's not going to happen and we have to play to win. There is no other blue in my opinion. Another Jailkeeper would have counterclaimed BH in ages. A Town RoleBlocker would have blocked someone. Another Vigilante would mean MCCVVVV which is unlikely as hell Another Cop would mean MCCCCVT which is also quite unlikely, without adding the fact that we have no sign of an SK and that another Cop with 2 possible checks would solve us the game right away. There is no other, the time for speculation is over. The setup is MVCCDTT, there is no SK and Hopeless is 100% confirmed Luigi the Vig and Blazinghand is 100% confirmed JailKeeper. And the fact that they are 100% confirmed is great and that's what all this setup speculation gave us. So, yes, it is useful ! You should get your vote off BH's back now... | ||
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On November 19 2012 23:58 Kickstart wrote: Yes, hence the if you think I'm the scummiest vote for me. @ Kickstart The problem was your formulation. You really sounded like you know the outcome of the lynch and that you'll start to read the filters only after this lynch. If you doubt that S&B is going to flip scum, then you should start reading the filters right now, that's my point. You are in no way looking worse than S&B right now but you should not get lazy and start to pursue other reads. | ||
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On November 20 2012 01:14 Blazinghand wrote: In any case, I'll understand if you disagree with my analysis here, and yes I didn't like Kickstart much at the end of N2 but that was for a very serious review of his filter. I am now utterly against lynching him today. ส้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้ ส้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้ I would just like to add that I don't see a newbie like Kickstart pull off a blue snipe on debears like this on his own. And I understand why he is getting lazy honestly. @ S&B You are not contributing, you are not present in the thread. It looks like you are giving up as any caught scum would do at this point. Why are you not conceding ? | ||
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On November 20 2012 02:34 Hopeless1der wrote: Known/Assumed Flips
Remaining Players are assumed to be Mushroom Citizens or the final scum, Kamek the Mafia Roleblocker
Strongandbig, if you can't tell us who the scum of that list is, can you provide town reads instead on as many players as you can? Actually, everyone should be doing that, with the understanding that reads change. BH and I are next in line, probably in that order due to being confirmed town and BH being a known strong town player. In the event that SnB is not scum, we have one mislynch Day 4 until a MYLO Day 5 (3v1). Which players do we want alive if it gets to that point? <snip> @ Hopeless At the moment, my strongest town reads are Iamp and Kickstart. Iamp looks the most concerned about this game with Clarity. He has presented good contributions and promotes a good town atmosphere for the discussion. He has shown interest and provided his insights on almost everything what was going on in the thread. Moreover, I don't feel that his posts are forced. He just looks genuinely town. He is the guy I would never want to lynch. Kickstart, even he doesn't participate enough at my taste, really gives me a first time town player feeling. I'm just coming out of my newbie games and they are full of games like him. If he was scum, I think he would have produced some Crossfire-like looking posts on day1 and that he would have already broke into pieces at this point. He needs to get free of the "I'm going to get suspicious if I post burden". I think that he could show clearly that he is town if he could post more freely. I'll give him "carte blanche" for his postings until we get at MYLO, if we have to come to this, which I doubt. I might be stupid to insist on this point, but I'm going to eat my hat if Kickstart has sniped debears. The last scum has to be an experienced player in my opinion. | ||
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On November 20 2012 03:07 Clarity_nl wrote: I'm just glad people have been giving some attention to kickstart, and looking at people's reads and impressions of kickstart my nerves about him have been silenced. I might reconsider again, obviously, but at the moment he does seem genuinely town, if a bit lacking in the caring department. I'll be taking quite a bit to go over stuff, because if snb flips town somehow I'm not quite sure at the moment who is most likely scum. Despite being the hammer vote I might have to reconsider darth, but more likely is Djo.... Back with more, later. @ Clarity Seriously, I don't understand what you have against me... How can I be on everyone lynch list when I have yet to see a real case against me ? I'm also reconsidering Darthpunk at the moment by the way. The strong town tells I have for him are the following
Please tell me if I missed some points ! For these points, he has been in a very high position in every player town list but he has failed to take advantage of this position in my view. Also I still have problem with his Z-Boson lynch... Anybody would like to discuss with me why Darthpunk should stay in my non-lynchable ever list ? | ||
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I would just like to add that it's past 3am here in South Korea and that I should be at work tomorrow morning so I might go to bed soon. GAME IS NOT OVER YET ! IT'S NOT THE TIME TO GET LAZY ! On a personal note, I've like S&B defense during D2, maybe because I'm more emotional than rational, so I'm not totally sure of S&B being the last scum yet even if he is the right person to lynch at the moment. I'm very curious to see what are going to be his next contributions. I'll accept people getting lazy if they can provide me with a case that totally proves that S&B is the last scum. DOES ANYONE HAVE A BETTER LYNCH THAN S&B TO PROPOSE FOR TODAY ?? | ||
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On November 20 2012 03:22 Clarity_nl wrote: I don't have anything against you. That's not how this game works. I'm trying to ignore thrawn's stuff altogether but it's obviously in the back of my head. Although the setup speculation helped it really got on my nerves and it seemed to be all you were willing to talk about. I haven't made a case on you because I haven't been focusing on you much, and there's nothing that stands out as inherently scummy. But look at the players we'll have left after snb gets lynched (assuming he flips town). To me everyone on that list is rather townie, and you are probably the least towny out of them atm. Your argument that darth hasn't taken advantage of his position can be said about hopeless and kickstart as well. @ Clarity The setup speculation allows us to have 100% confirmed blues right now. And the last scum is not able to fakeclaim if get close to his sorry ass... Honestly, if Hopeless was not a confirmed Vig, I would be all over him right now. Regarding Kickstart, we need to give him more room so he can post more. Also I think we should listen to what he is saying. First games are always depressing when every other player is coming at you for the scummy things that you inevitably post and never acknowledge what you are saying. I understand that he could get bored in his position. But Darthpunk is not in the same position as Hopeless and Kickstart. He has won his Acme game so he should have more time to spare with us. | ||
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On November 20 2012 03:33 Blazinghand wrote: I'm not 100% sure the last scum would have to be experienced to snipe debears really. I mean, yeah, it was a good snipe, but for all we know Hapa dropped some mad knowledge in the scum QT or the last scum just got lucky shooting into the town. The last scum certainly *could* be experienced and I don't think kickstart is scum, but I wouldn't use that as the reason to exonerate him. In terms of "should DP be considered unlynchable" the answer is "absolutely not". Nobody is beyond suspicion or questioning. Thinking that way is dangerous and leads to us losing. I may not think kickstart is scum but that doesn't mean I'm gonna bank everything on that fact. Question everything. @ BH I disagree with that point. I think that debears could have been killed for 2 reasons
Seriously, if the last scum had happily random shot debears, I don't see any reason why he would have done that over killing Hopeless or you. I personally thought that Hopeless would be the night kill. I'm somehow angry at Z-Bo for this post + Show Spoiler + On November 18 2012 09:59 Z-BosoN wrote: <snip> Investigate Djodref I know who’s cop btw. So, mr. Cop, investigate Djodref. Nothing scum can do right now to stop a cop search. If roleblocker decides to find who is the cop and roleblock him, then BH the jailer will be able to confirm his role to someone else. Since that likely won’t happen, and BH will inevitably claim RB, then just go ahead Djo and we should be fine. Win-win, either Djo gets confirmed, or BH gets confirmed. <snip> | ||
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On November 20 2012 03:45 Blazinghand wrote: the setup speculation is, and has always been, a shitty use of time not because it was without value but because it gives us no read on you. 100% setup speculation tells us nothing about the person who does it. When you wasted all your time with a mixture of setup speculation and tunnelling me, you caused everyone to get a scumread on you because you weren't scumhunting. That's why people are on you. the fact of the matter is your setup speculation was completely unnecessary because someone could have easily done it all after the debears flip in like a few minutes rather than talking about "all the possibilities" like you did so much before the debears flip, when it still wasn't clear what setup we're in. Really, the setup speculation wouldn't even have been a problem if you like actually made reads and pushed cases. The point here isn't "oh setup speculation is bad" though that is true-- it's "oh, ONLY setup speculation is bad, drojef shoudl actually contribute and talk" and you're like "haha nop i'm just gonna tunnel and do setup speculation" Like, remember yesterday when you were tunnelling me and everyone except SnB was like "dude we're not lynching BH" and you're like "lawl nope" you have to realize that you need to actually scumhunt and analyze to play this game @ Blazinghand Well, tunneling like a mad-man and using the setup against the mafia worked well for me last game to catch Clarity I've pushed him into fake claiming to get him lynched to get him counter claimed. I was planning to do the same kind of things against you. I was suffering of severe confirmation bias at this time, I admit it. What do you think of iamp and DP at the moment ? | ||
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On November 20 2012 03:53 Blazinghand wrote: EBWOP: sorry didn't mean to imply you are shitty player, that was a poorly worded sentence lol, it really looked like you did it though I don't think I'm going to get mislynched before we find the last scum, even if you think I'm a shitty player ^^ | ||
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On November 20 2012 03:51 Blazinghand wrote: um dude it was obvious we had a cop. I've been talking about what the cop should do and how I'm trying not to RB the cop with my JK usage since N1. How on earth would Z-Bo "give away" the fact we have a cop? It's not like he had any more knowledge about it than we do. ??? I don't understand you I don't know what to say. I've realized that we may have a Cop when I read this post from Z-Bo. The way he said "I think I know who the Cop is" had really struck me at that time. I thought he was speaking of iamp and that was part of my motivation for the mass claim plan. But I was still not really sure if there was a Cop or not at that point. Also please remember that it was easier for you to trust your claim than for us On a side note, I got what you said about getting lucky with the snipe. | ||
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On November 20 2012 04:09 Blazinghand wrote: From the way he's playing, though, I'm pretty sure this last scum player is a moron. Like, judging from his nks and choice of RBs, he lacks even a rudimentary understanding of the game and has made several mistakes. Honestly at this point he should just leave mafia and never come back. I guess his mother dropped him on his head a lot as a child, because she couldn't bear to look at his nasty-ass face. I don't see how you can complain about his choice of RBs, maybe you shouldn't have claimed JK during D1 You sure enjoy your position of confirmed town... You should thank the players who have rightfully solved the setup for you. | ||
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Is it just for the game or is it really serious ? | ||
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Yeah, I don't see the scum winning this game... We are not even going to get into MYLO imho | ||
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On November 20 2012 04:22 Blazinghand wrote: Like the only way the last scum could win is if he had mad l337z0r skills like myself. if he does win I will congratulate him heartily on surviving, alone, with blues everywhere, through 4 consecutive lynches. Actually, I could see DarthPunk doing that, not you | ||
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Just out of curiosity, why your vote is still parked on my back ? Regarding Clarity, I think it's time to reevaluate my read on him. I was leaning town on him because the feeling I got from his posts is different from the last game we have played together (I caught him being goon and forced him to fake claim when I was JK myself). S&B main points in his case are not damning in themselves but they show clearly the "strategy" that scum Clarity would follow and when you add up this to the interactions he had with Hapa (latest BH case on Clarity). | ||
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On November 20 2012 19:56 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 20 2012 10:58 iamperfection wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=60#1192 so i was going though his filter again making a case but i ran into this post. Scum i don't think would call out his own member that quickly would he? im having a hard time getting past this especially when cross had little attention on him. You should know this s not true. Cross was a weak player.No doubt they were worried about him in the QT. he would be an ideal bus. Oh I am back BTW and catching up with the thread. Also everyone calline out my inactivity GTFO. I have a 10 page filter day two. I have pushed my scum reads. Am I playing badly? Sure I am. I have zero motivation right now. It feels like I am doing an assignment. But here I am reading the thread when I have no inclination to do so. There are some spammers in this game who have fucking mass posted with little fucking content of value. (clarity) Who make this game a chore to read. I have a strong town read on S&B he is a mislynch. I want to lynch clarity or DJO. I am total lynch bait right now. Anyone pushing a lynch on me is fucking suspicious. Enter DJo. Subtly wanting to push me and fucking Iamp. like seriously pushing the inactives who he should have a damn town read on?? anyway. Now I am back reading the thread. Heaps of shit is pissing me off which is motivating me in a way. so that is good I guess. Top Scum reads. Clarity, Djo. Cool story bro... I have some doubts about you and they grow larger when you are clearly twisting what I have said. I doubt you can show that I want to push iamp because that it simply a lie. | ||
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On November 20 2012 20:23 Blazinghand wrote: Welcome back, Djodref! You mentioned you were re-evaluating your read on clarity 6 hours ago. Have you come to any conclusions? No because I had no time to do it. I was at work and pretty busy this afternoon unfortunately. I usually have enough time to play from work Just got back home right now, I'm getting to it right now... | ||
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On November 20 2012 20:29 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 20 2012 20:20 Djodref wrote: On November 20 2012 19:56 DarthPunk wrote: On November 20 2012 10:58 iamperfection wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=60#1192 so i was going though his filter again making a case but i ran into this post. Scum i don't think would call out his own member that quickly would he? im having a hard time getting past this especially when cross had little attention on him. You should know this s not true. Cross was a weak player.No doubt they were worried about him in the QT. he would be an ideal bus. Oh I am back BTW and catching up with the thread. Also everyone calline out my inactivity GTFO. I have a 10 page filter day two. I have pushed my scum reads. Am I playing badly? Sure I am. I have zero motivation right now. It feels like I am doing an assignment. But here I am reading the thread when I have no inclination to do so. There are some spammers in this game who have fucking mass posted with little fucking content of value. (clarity) Who make this game a chore to read. I have a strong town read on S&B he is a mislynch. I want to lynch clarity or DJO. I am total lynch bait right now. Anyone pushing a lynch on me is fucking suspicious. Enter DJo. Subtly wanting to push me and fucking Iamp. like seriously pushing the inactives who he should have a damn town read on?? anyway. Now I am back reading the thread. Heaps of shit is pissing me off which is motivating me in a way. so that is good I guess. Top Scum reads. Clarity, Djo. Cool story bro... I have some doubts about you and they grow larger when you are clearly twisting what I have said. I doubt you can show that I want to push iamp because that it simply a lie. Sup Scumzor. I can find the post or did I misread the part where you asked BH to comment on both Iamp and myself after heavily implying you had altered your town read on me? I can guarentee that if he had said he thought we were scummy you would have jumped all over us. LOL. That you were feeling out a wagon on lynch-bait was so fucking transparent dude. And as I am reading through your filter there is very little that suggests TOWN to me. @ Darthpunk I'm wary about you, not about iamp. I just wanted to know if I was on the right tracks for thinking that way. BH is now confirmed and provides some good advices sometimes. I think you are really over reacting when you refer to iamp and you as lynchbaits. I was very clear that I would never lynch iamp nor Kickstart. You are misinterpreting what I have said or you are full of confirmation bias. | ||
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On November 20 2012 20:40 DarthPunk wrote: And hopeless is confirmed. You are close. But not confirmed. And there are situations in which we should probably lynch you. Especially after My last game. @ DP Blazinghand is 100% confirmed... That was all the setup speculation was about. You should take a close look at these posts and what they really meant if you are checking my filter. I'll be glad to hear your reasons for him not being confirmed. | ||
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On November 20 2012 20:41 Blazinghand wrote: I'm legitimately curious as I am not a setup speculator: Could there in fact be only 2 blues in this game? I wanna kill myself now... No, it would be impossible with a godfather and a cop. | ||
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On November 20 2012 20:47 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 20 2012 20:37 Djodref wrote: On November 20 2012 20:29 DarthPunk wrote: On November 20 2012 20:20 Djodref wrote: On November 20 2012 19:56 DarthPunk wrote: On November 20 2012 10:58 iamperfection wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=60#1192 so i was going though his filter again making a case but i ran into this post. Scum i don't think would call out his own member that quickly would he? im having a hard time getting past this especially when cross had little attention on him. You should know this s not true. Cross was a weak player.No doubt they were worried about him in the QT. he would be an ideal bus. Oh I am back BTW and catching up with the thread. Also everyone calline out my inactivity GTFO. I have a 10 page filter day two. I have pushed my scum reads. Am I playing badly? Sure I am. I have zero motivation right now. It feels like I am doing an assignment. But here I am reading the thread when I have no inclination to do so. There are some spammers in this game who have fucking mass posted with little fucking content of value. (clarity) Who make this game a chore to read. I have a strong town read on S&B he is a mislynch. I want to lynch clarity or DJO. I am total lynch bait right now. Anyone pushing a lynch on me is fucking suspicious. Enter DJo. Subtly wanting to push me and fucking Iamp. like seriously pushing the inactives who he should have a damn town read on?? anyway. Now I am back reading the thread. Heaps of shit is pissing me off which is motivating me in a way. so that is good I guess. Top Scum reads. Clarity, Djo. Cool story bro... I have some doubts about you and they grow larger when you are clearly twisting what I have said. I doubt you can show that I want to push iamp because that it simply a lie. Sup Scumzor. I can find the post or did I misread the part where you asked BH to comment on both Iamp and myself after heavily implying you had altered your town read on me? I can guarentee that if he had said he thought we were scummy you would have jumped all over us. LOL. That you were feeling out a wagon on lynch-bait was so fucking transparent dude. And as I am reading through your filter there is very little that suggests TOWN to me. @ Darthpunk I'm wary about you, not about iamp. I just wanted to know if I was on the right tracks for thinking that way. BH is now confirmed and provides some good advices sometimes. I think you are really over reacting when you refer to iamp and you as lynchbaits. I was very clear that I would never lynch iamp nor Kickstart. You are misinterpreting what I have said or you are full of confirmation bias. You are full of shit. ROFL. What you are saying is that you would like to push a lynch on me though? Today, absolutely not. Honestly, I really doubt that we need to ever lynch you to finish the game. I've listed the strong town tells you have in your favor. I was just worried about your activity and your lynch of Z-Boson. | ||
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On November 20 2012 20:49 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 20 2012 20:46 Blazinghand wrote: Yeah see since there are 13 players in the game I'm just gonna assume there are 3 blues. That makes me an uncontested blue claim and confirmed town, as usual. Get your head in the game, boy-o. Although I'm flattered you've decided to grace us with your presence once again, you should at least try to get up to date with that's going on. ZB flipped miller, debears flipped cop. It's D3. etc etc Get out. I read the thread. I understand your claim. There could be two blues. It is very likely that you are town. But not certain. Also. If you are going to continue to act this way I will just do as I please and ignore you. I am sure you wouldn't want that. If you want to be difficult. Fine. Two can play that game. @ DarthPunk Let's take about this when you are done with checking my filter. Please read it objectively and try to understand what I was aiming to with the setup speculation. The link to the explantion page on mafiascum wiki is an interesting read for any player anyway. | ||
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On November 20 2012 20:57 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 20 2012 20:48 Blazinghand wrote: On November 20 2012 20:47 DarthPunk wrote: On November 20 2012 20:37 Djodref wrote: On November 20 2012 20:29 DarthPunk wrote: On November 20 2012 20:20 Djodref wrote: On November 20 2012 19:56 DarthPunk wrote: On November 20 2012 10:58 iamperfection wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=60#1192 so i was going though his filter again making a case but i ran into this post. Scum i don't think would call out his own member that quickly would he? im having a hard time getting past this especially when cross had little attention on him. You should know this s not true. Cross was a weak player.No doubt they were worried about him in the QT. he would be an ideal bus. Oh I am back BTW and catching up with the thread. Also everyone calline out my inactivity GTFO. I have a 10 page filter day two. I have pushed my scum reads. Am I playing badly? Sure I am. I have zero motivation right now. It feels like I am doing an assignment. But here I am reading the thread when I have no inclination to do so. There are some spammers in this game who have fucking mass posted with little fucking content of value. (clarity) Who make this game a chore to read. I have a strong town read on S&B he is a mislynch. I want to lynch clarity or DJO. I am total lynch bait right now. Anyone pushing a lynch on me is fucking suspicious. Enter DJo. Subtly wanting to push me and fucking Iamp. like seriously pushing the inactives who he should have a damn town read on?? anyway. Now I am back reading the thread. Heaps of shit is pissing me off which is motivating me in a way. so that is good I guess. Top Scum reads. Clarity, Djo. Cool story bro... I have some doubts about you and they grow larger when you are clearly twisting what I have said. I doubt you can show that I want to push iamp because that it simply a lie. Sup Scumzor. I can find the post or did I misread the part where you asked BH to comment on both Iamp and myself after heavily implying you had altered your town read on me? I can guarentee that if he had said he thought we were scummy you would have jumped all over us. LOL. That you were feeling out a wagon on lynch-bait was so fucking transparent dude. And as I am reading through your filter there is very little that suggests TOWN to me. @ Darthpunk I'm wary about you, not about iamp. I just wanted to know if I was on the right tracks for thinking that way. BH is now confirmed and provides some good advices sometimes. I think you are really over reacting when you refer to iamp and you as lynchbaits. I was very clear that I would never lynch iamp nor Kickstart. You are misinterpreting what I have said or you are full of confirmation bias. You are full of shit. ROFL. What you are saying is that you would like to push a lynch on me though? This is a legit question actually. DJO. Take a position and answer this question. On November 20 2012 20:52 Djodref wrote: Show nested quote + On November 20 2012 20:47 DarthPunk wrote: On November 20 2012 20:37 Djodref wrote: On November 20 2012 20:29 DarthPunk wrote: On November 20 2012 20:20 Djodref wrote: On November 20 2012 19:56 DarthPunk wrote: On November 20 2012 10:58 iamperfection wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=60#1192 so i was going though his filter again making a case but i ran into this post. Scum i don't think would call out his own member that quickly would he? im having a hard time getting past this especially when cross had little attention on him. You should know this s not true. Cross was a weak player.No doubt they were worried about him in the QT. he would be an ideal bus. Oh I am back BTW and catching up with the thread. Also everyone calline out my inactivity GTFO. I have a 10 page filter day two. I have pushed my scum reads. Am I playing badly? Sure I am. I have zero motivation right now. It feels like I am doing an assignment. But here I am reading the thread when I have no inclination to do so. There are some spammers in this game who have fucking mass posted with little fucking content of value. (clarity) Who make this game a chore to read. I have a strong town read on S&B he is a mislynch. I want to lynch clarity or DJO. I am total lynch bait right now. Anyone pushing a lynch on me is fucking suspicious. Enter DJo. Subtly wanting to push me and fucking Iamp. like seriously pushing the inactives who he should have a damn town read on?? anyway. Now I am back reading the thread. Heaps of shit is pissing me off which is motivating me in a way. so that is good I guess. Top Scum reads. Clarity, Djo. Cool story bro... I have some doubts about you and they grow larger when you are clearly twisting what I have said. I doubt you can show that I want to push iamp because that it simply a lie. Sup Scumzor. I can find the post or did I misread the part where you asked BH to comment on both Iamp and myself after heavily implying you had altered your town read on me? I can guarentee that if he had said he thought we were scummy you would have jumped all over us. LOL. That you were feeling out a wagon on lynch-bait was so fucking transparent dude. And as I am reading through your filter there is very little that suggests TOWN to me. @ Darthpunk I'm wary about you, not about iamp. I just wanted to know if I was on the right tracks for thinking that way. BH is now confirmed and provides some good advices sometimes. I think you are really over reacting when you refer to iamp and you as lynchbaits. I was very clear that I would never lynch iamp nor Kickstart. You are misinterpreting what I have said or you are full of confirmation bias. You are full of shit. ROFL. What you are saying is that you would like to push a lynch on me though? Today, absolutely not. Honestly, I really doubt that we need to ever lynch you to finish the game. I've listed the strong town tells you have in your favor. I was just worried about your activity and your lynch of Z-Boson. Already did. I want to lynch S&B today by the way. | ||
Djodref
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On November 20 2012 20:58 Blazinghand wrote: djodref you think anyone wants to actually look at those posts full of letters and algebra and stuff? especially a busy guy like DP? Really what it comes down to is given the flips and claims, there are 2 blues left alive, and they are me and hopeless1. lol, okay, I'm going to sum up everything for him. First things first, you have to check this internet page about C9++, it is a very interesting read, believe. Second, given the claims and the flips and the lack of night actions at the exception of the mafia kills and BH being RBed, our setup is defined by the following set of letters, MVCCDTT, which gives us a 100% certainty of Hopeless being Luigi and BH being Yoshi. I'm done with talking now, I'll check Clarity's filter. | ||
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 20 2012 21:02 Blazinghand wrote: Show nested quote + On November 19 2012 12:37 Djodref wrote: Anyway, a zero T setup would have less than 1% chance to get rolled at the beginning in a classic C9++ game and the probability is even lower with Keir generator because the one-shot roles are replaced by Ts. I wanted S&B to say this to me. I don't understand how S&B can have his vote on BH right now given the info we have. MVCCDTT makes more sense, in term of probability and in term of play. Your logic is fallacious right now S&B. Explain me how you can conclude that voting BH is still a good move now and I might unvote you. ##Vote S&B Show nested quote + On November 20 2012 03:25 Djodref wrote: On a personal note, I've like S&B defense during D2, maybe because I'm more emotional than rational, so I'm not totally sure of S&B being the last scum yet even if he is the right person to lynch at the moment. I'm very curious to see what are going to be his next contributions. I'll accept people getting lazy if they can provide me with a case that totally proves that S&B is the last scum. DOES ANYONE HAVE A BETTER LYNCH THAN S&B TO PROPOSE FOR TODAY ?? Awfully unsure for a guy who's voting to lynch the dude True enough, I'm only sure of Hopeless and you being confirmed at that point. Iamp and Kickstart still as top town read. Let me check Clarity and I'll come back to you... | ||
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 20 2012 21:12 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 20 2012 21:06 Djodref wrote: On November 20 2012 20:58 Blazinghand wrote: djodref you think anyone wants to actually look at those posts full of letters and algebra and stuff? especially a busy guy like DP? Really what it comes down to is given the flips and claims, there are 2 blues left alive, and they are me and hopeless1. lol, okay, I'm going to sum up everything for him. First things first, you have to check this internet page about C9++, it is a very interesting read, believe. Second, given the claims and the flips and the lack of night actions at the exception of the mafia kills and BH being RBed, our setup is defined by the following set of letters, MVCCDTT, which gives us a 100% certainty of Hopeless being Luigi and BH being Yoshi. I'm done with talking now, I'll check Clarity's filter. LOL you think I haven't read that page? The thing is I don't care about set up speculation. I would not want to lynch BH with no counter claim regardless. It's great you are done with talking. But you are not BH and if you think you can get away without telling me exactly why S&B is scum you are going to be sorely disappointed. You may think I am a bad player. and that is fine. I am comparatively to others. But I am not someone who you can roll over very easily. I have only lost one game of mafia in my 8 games. This will NOT be my second. I'm not getting away, I have a lot of time ahead of me tonight and I'll give you satisfaction. I'm sorry if you felt that I was calling you a bad player, it was not my intention and I don't see where you got that. I feel that you are angry at me for some reason and I don't see exactly why. I didn't realize that you surely didn't spend the time I've spent speculating on the setup. So I gave you the main points, that is all Take my word for it, Hopeless and BH are 100% confirmed. | ||
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 20 2012 21:18 DarthPunk wrote: Djo. Explain in your own words why clarity and Perfection are town reads. Kickstart and iamperfection. Get off my back and start reading the thread more carefully. Remove you confirmation bias goggles by the way... | ||
Djodref
France3332 Posts
He doesn't seem to really care about this game. He is not present enough in the thread, especially at a crucial moments like the time he got almost lynched. His latest contribution is the result of of the search of every scummy thing in Clarity's filter in my eyes, not a real assessment of Clarity's alignment. I know I shouldn't say that, but he is a liability given his trolly play during D1, and we would have to lynch if he was among us in MYLO or LYLO, so better sooner than later. | ||
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 20 2012 21:25 Blazinghand wrote: yeah djodref you tell him Was I really jumping at everything you said like this ? It's quite annoying... | ||
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 20 2012 21:12 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 20 2012 21:06 Djodref wrote: On November 20 2012 20:58 Blazinghand wrote: djodref you think anyone wants to actually look at those posts full of letters and algebra and stuff? especially a busy guy like DP? Really what it comes down to is given the flips and claims, there are 2 blues left alive, and they are me and hopeless1. lol, okay, I'm going to sum up everything for him. First things first, you have to check this internet page about C9++, it is a very interesting read, believe. Second, given the claims and the flips and the lack of night actions at the exception of the mafia kills and BH being RBed, our setup is defined by the following set of letters, MVCCDTT, which gives us a 100% certainty of Hopeless being Luigi and BH being Yoshi. I'm done with talking now, I'll check Clarity's filter. LOL you think I haven't read that page? The thing is I don't care about set up speculation. I would not want to lynch BH with no counter claim regardless. It's great you are done with talking. But you are not BH and if you think you can get away without telling me exactly why S&B is scum you are going to be sorely disappointed. You may think I am a bad player. and that is fine. I am comparatively to others. But I am not someone who you can roll over very easily. I have only lost one game of mafia in my 8 games. This will NOT be my second. @ DarthPunk Maybe you should take care of setup speculation. You would have understood that lynching the uncontested miller was as bad as lynching the uncontested jailkeeper. Here, I'm saying that we were both bad | ||
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 20 2012 21:49 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 20 2012 21:22 Djodref wrote: On November 20 2012 21:18 DarthPunk wrote: Djo. Explain in your own words why clarity and Perfection are town reads. Kickstart and iamperfection. Get off my back and start reading the thread more carefully. Remove you confirmation bias goggles by the way... Kickstart and perfection then. Why are they town? I've mentioned it here. I have never been wishy-washy on Kickstart. My conclusion was that he was town. On November 20 2012 03:01 Djodref wrote: Show nested quote + On November 20 2012 02:34 Hopeless1der wrote: Known/Assumed Flips
Remaining Players are assumed to be Mushroom Citizens or the final scum, Kamek the Mafia Roleblocker
Strongandbig, if you can't tell us who the scum of that list is, can you provide town reads instead on as many players as you can? Actually, everyone should be doing that, with the understanding that reads change. BH and I are next in line, probably in that order due to being confirmed town and BH being a known strong town player. In the event that SnB is not scum, we have one mislynch Day 4 until a MYLO Day 5 (3v1). Which players do we want alive if it gets to that point? <snip> @ Hopeless At the moment, my strongest town reads are Iamp and Kickstart. Iamp looks the most concerned about this game with Clarity. He has presented good contributions and promotes a good town atmosphere for the discussion. He has shown interest and provided his insights on almost everything what was going on in the thread. Moreover, I don't feel that his posts are forced. He just looks genuinely town. He is the guy I would never want to lynch. Kickstart, even he doesn't participate enough at my taste, really gives me a first time town player feeling. I'm just coming out of my newbie games and they are full of games like him. If he was scum, I think he would have produced some Crossfire-like looking posts on day1 and that he would have already broke into pieces at this point. He needs to get free of the "I'm going to get suspicious if I post burden". I think that he could show clearly that he is town if he could post more freely. I'll give him "carte blanche" for his postings until we get at MYLO, if we have to come to this, which I doubt. I might be stupid to insist on this point, but I'm going to eat my hat if Kickstart has sniped debears. The last scum has to be an experienced player in my opinion. | ||
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 20 2012 21:45 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 20 2012 21:44 Djodref wrote: On November 20 2012 21:12 DarthPunk wrote: On November 20 2012 21:06 Djodref wrote: On November 20 2012 20:58 Blazinghand wrote: djodref you think anyone wants to actually look at those posts full of letters and algebra and stuff? especially a busy guy like DP? Really what it comes down to is given the flips and claims, there are 2 blues left alive, and they are me and hopeless1. lol, okay, I'm going to sum up everything for him. First things first, you have to check this internet page about C9++, it is a very interesting read, believe. Second, given the claims and the flips and the lack of night actions at the exception of the mafia kills and BH being RBed, our setup is defined by the following set of letters, MVCCDTT, which gives us a 100% certainty of Hopeless being Luigi and BH being Yoshi. I'm done with talking now, I'll check Clarity's filter. LOL you think I haven't read that page? The thing is I don't care about set up speculation. I would not want to lynch BH with no counter claim regardless. It's great you are done with talking. But you are not BH and if you think you can get away without telling me exactly why S&B is scum you are going to be sorely disappointed. You may think I am a bad player. and that is fine. I am comparatively to others. But I am not someone who you can roll over very easily. I have only lost one game of mafia in my 8 games. This will NOT be my second. @ DarthPunk Maybe you should take care of setup speculation. You would have understood that lynching the uncontested miller was as bad as lynching the uncontested jailkeeper. Here, I'm saying that we were both bad All you do is talk about set-up. I would appreciate that you would do the effort to understand my point. You cannot reproach me to have tunneled BH during D2 when you have only pursued Z-Boson the same day. I already told you that you were having double standards regarding this and I don't know if you don't understand or don't want to understand. | ||
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 20 2012 21:58 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 20 2012 21:53 Djodref wrote: On November 20 2012 21:49 DarthPunk wrote: On November 20 2012 21:22 Djodref wrote: On November 20 2012 21:18 DarthPunk wrote: Djo. Explain in your own words why clarity and Perfection are town reads. Kickstart and iamperfection. Get off my back and start reading the thread more carefully. Remove you confirmation bias goggles by the way... Kickstart and perfection then. Why are they town? I've mentioned it here. I have never been wishy-washy on Kickstart. My conclusion was that he was town. On November 20 2012 03:01 Djodref wrote: On November 20 2012 02:34 Hopeless1der wrote: Known/Assumed Flips
Remaining Players are assumed to be Mushroom Citizens or the final scum, Kamek the Mafia Roleblocker
Strongandbig, if you can't tell us who the scum of that list is, can you provide town reads instead on as many players as you can? Actually, everyone should be doing that, with the understanding that reads change. BH and I are next in line, probably in that order due to being confirmed town and BH being a known strong town player. In the event that SnB is not scum, we have one mislynch Day 4 until a MYLO Day 5 (3v1). Which players do we want alive if it gets to that point? <snip> @ Hopeless At the moment, my strongest town reads are Iamp and Kickstart. Iamp looks the most concerned about this game with Clarity. He has presented good contributions and promotes a good town atmosphere for the discussion. He has shown interest and provided his insights on almost everything what was going on in the thread. Moreover, I don't feel that his posts are forced. He just looks genuinely town. He is the guy I would never want to lynch. Kickstart, even he doesn't participate enough at my taste, really gives me a first time town player feeling. I'm just coming out of my newbie games and they are full of games like him. If he was scum, I think he would have produced some Crossfire-like looking posts on day1 and that he would have already broke into pieces at this point. He needs to get free of the "I'm going to get suspicious if I post burden". I think that he could show clearly that he is town if he could post more freely. I'll give him "carte blanche" for his postings until we get at MYLO, if we have to come to this, which I doubt. I might be stupid to insist on this point, but I'm going to eat my hat if Kickstart has sniped debears. The last scum has to be an experienced player in my opinion. Not really hard evidence. Just based on some 'feelings' hey. Why have you given so many town reads yet have not given any scum reads all game and have not actively scum hunted? @ DarthPunk Because I honestly thought we didn't need to. The mass claim plan was going to solve us the game with the help of logic only. And we have one and only one last scum to find. I don't see what is wrong about tunneling your top scumread only for D2 is this situation then giving top town reads before looking at the players who are left. | ||
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 20 2012 21:59 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 20 2012 21:57 Djodref wrote: On November 20 2012 21:45 DarthPunk wrote: On November 20 2012 21:44 Djodref wrote: On November 20 2012 21:12 DarthPunk wrote: On November 20 2012 21:06 Djodref wrote: On November 20 2012 20:58 Blazinghand wrote: djodref you think anyone wants to actually look at those posts full of letters and algebra and stuff? especially a busy guy like DP? Really what it comes down to is given the flips and claims, there are 2 blues left alive, and they are me and hopeless1. lol, okay, I'm going to sum up everything for him. First things first, you have to check this internet page about C9++, it is a very interesting read, believe. Second, given the claims and the flips and the lack of night actions at the exception of the mafia kills and BH being RBed, our setup is defined by the following set of letters, MVCCDTT, which gives us a 100% certainty of Hopeless being Luigi and BH being Yoshi. I'm done with talking now, I'll check Clarity's filter. LOL you think I haven't read that page? The thing is I don't care about set up speculation. I would not want to lynch BH with no counter claim regardless. It's great you are done with talking. But you are not BH and if you think you can get away without telling me exactly why S&B is scum you are going to be sorely disappointed. You may think I am a bad player. and that is fine. I am comparatively to others. But I am not someone who you can roll over very easily. I have only lost one game of mafia in my 8 games. This will NOT be my second. @ DarthPunk Maybe you should take care of setup speculation. You would have understood that lynching the uncontested miller was as bad as lynching the uncontested jailkeeper. Here, I'm saying that we were both bad All you do is talk about set-up. I would appreciate that you would do the effort to understand my point. You cannot reproach me to have tunneled BH during D2 when you have only pursued Z-Boson the same day. I already told you that you were having double standards regarding this and I don't know if you don't understand or don't want to understand. There is a HUGE difference between a miller claim and a JK claim. Furthermore I have actually scumhunted in this game and built a good case on ZB. You did not do so with BH and have not scumhunted at all this game period. What was exactly the HUGE difference in our situation ? I need you to explain this in our particular case for real. I must admit that I didn't provide a good case on BH. | ||
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 20 2012 22:02 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 20 2012 21:53 Clarity_nl wrote: I was the one who asked him what he thought of kickstart, and now you're saying it's bad he made a post on kickstart? You say he's wishy washy, but there is a fucking conclusion at the end of that post. He points out all his observations and makes a conclusion. It was wishy washy. But I don't really care what you think. The conclusion was that he was a newbie. And that was not difficult to see for anyone. Some conclusion right there. It is worse for him that you asked him to make that post because that was his only real analysis or contribution on anything even remotely consisting of scum hunting. Without that he has done none whatsoever. That's a lie. I have clearly stated what was my read on him after my analysis. Newbie town it is. | ||
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 20 2012 22:07 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 20 2012 22:02 Djodref wrote: On November 20 2012 21:58 DarthPunk wrote: On November 20 2012 21:53 Djodref wrote: On November 20 2012 21:49 DarthPunk wrote: On November 20 2012 21:22 Djodref wrote: On November 20 2012 21:18 DarthPunk wrote: Djo. Explain in your own words why clarity and Perfection are town reads. Kickstart and iamperfection. Get off my back and start reading the thread more carefully. Remove you confirmation bias goggles by the way... Kickstart and perfection then. Why are they town? I've mentioned it here. I have never been wishy-washy on Kickstart. My conclusion was that he was town. On November 20 2012 03:01 Djodref wrote: On November 20 2012 02:34 Hopeless1der wrote: Known/Assumed Flips
Remaining Players are assumed to be Mushroom Citizens or the final scum, Kamek the Mafia Roleblocker
Strongandbig, if you can't tell us who the scum of that list is, can you provide town reads instead on as many players as you can? Actually, everyone should be doing that, with the understanding that reads change. BH and I are next in line, probably in that order due to being confirmed town and BH being a known strong town player. In the event that SnB is not scum, we have one mislynch Day 4 until a MYLO Day 5 (3v1). Which players do we want alive if it gets to that point? <snip> @ Hopeless At the moment, my strongest town reads are Iamp and Kickstart. Iamp looks the most concerned about this game with Clarity. He has presented good contributions and promotes a good town atmosphere for the discussion. He has shown interest and provided his insights on almost everything what was going on in the thread. Moreover, I don't feel that his posts are forced. He just looks genuinely town. He is the guy I would never want to lynch. Kickstart, even he doesn't participate enough at my taste, really gives me a first time town player feeling. I'm just coming out of my newbie games and they are full of games like him. If he was scum, I think he would have produced some Crossfire-like looking posts on day1 and that he would have already broke into pieces at this point. He needs to get free of the "I'm going to get suspicious if I post burden". I think that he could show clearly that he is town if he could post more freely. I'll give him "carte blanche" for his postings until we get at MYLO, if we have to come to this, which I doubt. I might be stupid to insist on this point, but I'm going to eat my hat if Kickstart has sniped debears. The last scum has to be an experienced player in my opinion. Not really hard evidence. Just based on some 'feelings' hey. Why have you given so many town reads yet have not given any scum reads all game and have not actively scum hunted? @ DarthPunk Because I honestly thought we didn't need to. The mass claim plan was going to solve us the game with the help of logic only. And we have one and only one last scum to find. I don't see what is wrong about tunneling your top scumread only for D2 is this situation then giving top town reads before looking at the players who are left. Is a 3/5 chance 'solving' the game now? I don't like those odds. Yeah, my plan was not perfect obviously. I was thinking at a Cop with one or two checks or masons. We would be in a good situation with just one more confirmed town, don't you think ? | ||
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 20 2012 22:11 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 20 2012 22:08 Djodref wrote: On November 20 2012 22:02 DarthPunk wrote: On November 20 2012 21:53 Clarity_nl wrote: I was the one who asked him what he thought of kickstart, and now you're saying it's bad he made a post on kickstart? You say he's wishy washy, but there is a fucking conclusion at the end of that post. He points out all his observations and makes a conclusion. It was wishy washy. But I don't really care what you think. The conclusion was that he was a newbie. And that was not difficult to see for anyone. Some conclusion right there. It is worse for him that you asked him to make that post because that was his only real analysis or contribution on anything even remotely consisting of scum hunting. Without that he has done none whatsoever. That's a lie. I have clearly stated what was my read on him after my analysis. Newbie town it is. Ok I must have misread. regardless, the way in which you constructed that post was wishy-washy. here is why he might be town Here is why he could be scum I think he is newbie town. Which for all intents and purposes leaves a caveat, as newbie town is a lot closer to scummy than a 'Strong' town read. I was not wishy-washy. And once again, Kickstart is not someone we should lynch. I've stated this clearly and I've analyzed his filter carefully. You are twisting what I'm saying once again... Please explain me what was the HUGE difference between Z-Bo claim and BH claim. | ||
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 20 2012 22:18 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 20 2012 22:15 Djodref wrote: On November 20 2012 22:11 DarthPunk wrote: On November 20 2012 22:08 Djodref wrote: On November 20 2012 22:02 DarthPunk wrote: On November 20 2012 21:53 Clarity_nl wrote: I was the one who asked him what he thought of kickstart, and now you're saying it's bad he made a post on kickstart? You say he's wishy washy, but there is a fucking conclusion at the end of that post. He points out all his observations and makes a conclusion. It was wishy washy. But I don't really care what you think. The conclusion was that he was a newbie. And that was not difficult to see for anyone. Some conclusion right there. It is worse for him that you asked him to make that post because that was his only real analysis or contribution on anything even remotely consisting of scum hunting. Without that he has done none whatsoever. That's a lie. I have clearly stated what was my read on him after my analysis. Newbie town it is. Ok I must have misread. regardless, the way in which you constructed that post was wishy-washy. here is why he might be town Here is why he could be scum I think he is newbie town. Which for all intents and purposes leaves a caveat, as newbie town is a lot closer to scummy than a 'Strong' town read. I was not wishy-washy. And once again, Kickstart is not someone we should lynch. I've stated this clearly and I've analyzed his filter carefully. You are twisting what I'm saying once again... Please explain me what was the HUGE difference between Z-Bo claim and BH claim. One claims MILLER who checks red, serves no other purpose, is non verifiable through night actions and is probably the safest fake claim that can be possibly made by scum. One claims Jailkeeper, Serves a real purpose, Is verifiable through night actions, And is one of the riskiest and unlikely fakeclaims to ever be made as scum. How about you do some scumhunting that you have avoided all game? How about you tell me how BH claim was verifiable through night actions in our case ? The both claims had same values when we were at D2. And you refuse to acknowledge it and I don't understand why. I have this question for you right now and I want you to answer it exactly because you are just talking about general stuff. I may resume my investigation on Clarity after that but I want you to understand my point first. | ||
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 20 2012 22:28 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 20 2012 22:25 Djodref wrote: On November 20 2012 22:18 DarthPunk wrote: On November 20 2012 22:15 Djodref wrote: On November 20 2012 22:11 DarthPunk wrote: On November 20 2012 22:08 Djodref wrote: On November 20 2012 22:02 DarthPunk wrote: On November 20 2012 21:53 Clarity_nl wrote: I was the one who asked him what he thought of kickstart, and now you're saying it's bad he made a post on kickstart? You say he's wishy washy, but there is a fucking conclusion at the end of that post. He points out all his observations and makes a conclusion. It was wishy washy. But I don't really care what you think. The conclusion was that he was a newbie. And that was not difficult to see for anyone. Some conclusion right there. It is worse for him that you asked him to make that post because that was his only real analysis or contribution on anything even remotely consisting of scum hunting. Without that he has done none whatsoever. That's a lie. I have clearly stated what was my read on him after my analysis. Newbie town it is. Ok I must have misread. regardless, the way in which you constructed that post was wishy-washy. here is why he might be town Here is why he could be scum I think he is newbie town. Which for all intents and purposes leaves a caveat, as newbie town is a lot closer to scummy than a 'Strong' town read. I was not wishy-washy. And once again, Kickstart is not someone we should lynch. I've stated this clearly and I've analyzed his filter carefully. You are twisting what I'm saying once again... Please explain me what was the HUGE difference between Z-Bo claim and BH claim. One claims MILLER who checks red, serves no other purpose, is non verifiable through night actions and is probably the safest fake claim that can be possibly made by scum. One claims Jailkeeper, Serves a real purpose, Is verifiable through night actions, And is one of the riskiest and unlikely fakeclaims to ever be made as scum. How about you do some scumhunting that you have avoided all game? How about you tell me how BH claim was verifiable through night actions in our case ? The both claims had same values when we were at D2. And you refuse to acknowledge it and I don't understand why. I have this question for you right now and I want you to answer it exactly because you are just talking about general stuff. I may resume my investigation on Clarity after that but I want you to understand my point first. it is irrelevant to us catching scum now. We can discuss The differences in the likelihood of scum claiming JK over miller then. I refuse to discuss set-up or mass claims with you further. I will only discuss your scum hunting with you. I'm sorry bu it's not irrelevant in the case you are the last scum. The timing and the claim of Z-Bo was making more sense from a real miller point of view than the JK claim halfway through D1 from BH from. I don't want to discuss generalities with you, I want to discuss what happened in our case. Both claims were uncontested but unverifiable at that time and they would have been as risky from a potential scum to make. I don't understand how you could be opposed to a BH lynch when you wanted to lynch Z-Bo. | ||
Djodref
France3332 Posts
Can I ask you to elaborate on your slight town read on me ? I'm saying slight town because I feel like I'm in between a town and a neutral read. A short post with your main points should be enough. | ||
Djodref
France3332 Posts
DarthPunk Part I --- Bussing Hapa During D1, DarthPunk has shown interest mainly in the persons of Clarity and Z-Boson. His interactions with Hapa were limited. As a reminder, please find here his famous "last will" post before getting almost lynched. On November 15 2012 10:34 DarthPunk wrote: I am flipping town. Lynch Z-Bo and clarity. BH and Hapa need to be looked at closely. Marv is 100% town Debears is my second strongest town read. You got this debears. <3 Perfection town. Crossfire town S&B town Hopeless null Everyone I missed. Null and forgettable apparently. Never been mis-lynched before. I blew chunks this game GO town!!! Hapa needs to be looked closely at. DP has mentioned previously that he wouldn't vote for Hapa or marv D1 here + Show Spoiler + On November 13 2012 11:52 DarthPunk wrote: <snip> Yep. I would not. I would not vote day one for Hapa or marv either. Unless there was something super obvious I would not vote for them. But I do not think that would happen because they are all good players and that is why I respect them I suppose. So, Hapa is not a good lynch for today while Z-Bo is. And yet, after "realizing" that Hapa is scum while BH, debears and iamp started to threw their FoS around. We have On November 15 2012 10:56 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 15 2012 10:52 Hapahauli wrote: On November 15 2012 10:50 Z-BosoN wrote: Also, if anyone is thinking of voting me, it is becasue you are blindly sheeping marv. Fucking read my defense, FUCKING READ WHAT I SAID REGARDING MY META. FUCKING READ WHAT HAPA SAID. It's a case based SOLELY ON META DP is acting VERY differently then when he is scum gettingl ynched. I want to unvote him and vote for hopeless. Also, if I for some godly reason to get lynched. Here are my reads: Hapa: scum scum scum. Gonna go after him day 2 should I live. BH probably scum. I can't fathom his claim AT ALL. Kill him should he be alive in like, day 3. Rest of everybody I'm not sure. Marv is prob town, an arrogant fucking one who can't see the reasonable explanation I've given, but he's pretty much town. Yeah die. "Fucking read what Hapa said" "Hapa; scum scum scum" ##Unvote ##Vote Z-Boson This bussing is so transparent On November 15 2012 10:56 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 15 2012 10:55 Z-BosoN wrote: LYNCH HAPAHAULI. LYNCH BLAZINGHAND. when he is alive day 3. marv, hope you learn you are not the fucking god of mafia, and see that meta reads are only worth it if it isn't fucking obvious stylistic proven logical and pre-claimed reasons. WIFOM On November 15 2012 10:58 DarthPunk wrote: ##Unvote ##vote: HAPA I don't understand how you can come with the idea that your top scumread is planting WIFOM bombs. I think that his last minute vote was pressed by Hapa in the scumQT. What I find mostly interesting is his reaction afterward. On November 15 2012 11:25 DarthPunk wrote: <snip> You are far from confiremd ZB and your last 'will' was a WIFOM bomb if I ever saw it. I am calling BH, HAPA, ZB team right now. So basically, BH and ZB have bussed Hapa for sure but -> On November 15 2012 11:34 DarthPunk wrote: Also I am confirmed town. SO suck it, all of you. Excellent double standards. He is confirmed town because his lynch was pushed by scum and he lynched Hapa but ZB and BH are not at all in the same position, especially ZB here, and have obviously bussed. For your information, he retracts himself afterwards on BH because he certainly doesn't want to push a lynch on a JK. Part II --- The Lynch of Z-BoSon I cannot emphasize enough how stupid Z-BosoN lynch was. I feel very sorry for not having been here in the thread the last week-end but IRL stuff prevails, especially saturday nights. Anyway, I have tried to explain to DP that he was using double standards regarding ZB and BH but I've been called an idiot for it. Here is the post for reference On November 17 2012 15:29 Djodref wrote: @ DarthPunk Let's look at the two following players Blazinghands
Yet he is the last on your lynch list Z-BosoN
You want to lynch him today The probability for us to have a miller is roughly the same than the probability for us to have a JK. They both couldn't confirm their claims by any actions. Why can you not understand this ? But let's also take a look at the similarities between Z-Bo and DP at that time Z-BoSoN
DP
I don't understand how town DP could not sympathize with Z-BosoN at this point and has no doubts at all about his alignment. I really don't understand how he could not have at least doubts about it. On November 17 2012 11:21 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 17 2012 11:18 Blazinghand wrote: On November 17 2012 11:17 DarthPunk wrote: Here is SCUM Z-Boson from XXIV On August 20 2012 12:25 Z-BosoN wrote: All right guys, some debriefing should take place. I agree that we shouldn't back off during the night. It is crucial we get it right this time. Let's see what we have: YourHarry Extremely weird player. My main theory against him was that he was trying to do a lame bus on thrawn. Granted as thrawn was indeed vigi, this is not the case. However, his posts and comments generally are inconsistent, lack explanations, and keep changing. His posts are a diarrhea of WIFOM that I've decided are only here to confuse us with its vagueness, lack of clarity, and lack of purpose. Observe: I am having second thoughts about Thrawn. First thing that doesn't make sense if Thrawn is scum: If Thrawn is indeed scum then he left that "bread crumb" post so that he can use that as evidence to mislead the town that he is vigilante. But Thrawn denied this post as the "bread crumb" post, and in his initial claim, he never even referenced this post in the first place... Mega power WIFOM. Second thing that I am not sure about is that, claiming vigilante is so dangerous for scum. One weak point in this line of thinking is that Thrawn did ask the mod to confirm that there could be more than one vigilante. I think it is possible that scum Thrawn DID ask the moderator in private prior to asking publicly that there could be more than one vigilante. What is this supposed to implicate? Useless garbage. STILL, whether or not there could be two vigilante... a counter vigilante claim would definitely have made Thrawn look suspicious. Would it not? I am not sure scum would have taken this risk. He keeps babbling, and doesn't make a point. How in anyway is this post helping town? And we keep going: But I am scared to unvote, because I will be the next person to be lynched after Thrawn What is this supposed to mean? Is he a scum that wants us to think this or is he a townie that wants us to think that he is thinking... oh wait, WIFOM. This statement means CRAP. ... and more .... I am not super confident in my scum read. Upon my reading just now, I found Jhyut case's scummy. Sheeping Thrawn's case here, but Jhyut did not care whether I am town or scum - he wanted to lynch me. I thought he was something else, but I guess I was wrong again. HE is also lurking pretty hard, so he may turn out to be scum Crappety crap crap CRAP. He is randomly throwing around suspicions and not committing to anything. This in no conceivable way helps town. My case against Golbat and Darth was based on my scum read on Thrawn. Not sure anymore. Scumslip? How does he suddenly know that thrawn is not scum? Oh, that's right, he decided thrawn isn't scum with his brilliant and well thought-out argument, quoted above. I'm sure we can agree that his posts don't help the town and scream scum. Even though there was strong evidence that thrawn and YH were scum, due to the way they were playing it D1, I am still inclined to think he is scum. This requires much more thought, as we will have to be certain that we lynch a scum in the next day. Jhuyt He is a quiet and lurky player. He mentions possibilities, without compromise, and doesn't take a stance on anything. The more I think of it the more I find that either Shady or Thrawn is scum. But since my basis of suspicion against Thrawn is basically gone I really can't vote for him. I think this post + Show Spoiler + coupled with Thrawn's reason to accuse Arch is enough for me too consider Shady as scum. ##Vote: Shady Sands I have to go for the next couple of hours so I won't be here for the conclusion of the day, see ya later. Bases himself off completely off of someone else's arguments, and announces he will have to leave. He then makes complains about how wishy-washy YourHarry is, says it is urgent that we lynch him, and starts to make shallow arguments on GK: When I looked at the case GK made in this post I got the feeling that you might be scum, but I wasn't sure. When I couple that with your scumslip it makes more sense that he's right and therefore I think you're scum. The benefit of the doubt line was one that I was considering to cut out of the post because it doesn't add anything and I'm pretty sure I misused the expression. I should have said that while I do think you're scum I think that YH's behaviour is way scummier and so much more anti-town that a lynch on him is necessary so that we can have a clearer discussion. But still considering YourHarry's wishy-washyness more scummy. Gets attacked by thrawn, who basically states the same things I'm saying right now, and is defended with weak and contentless posts. He simply doesn't take a solid stance on anyone (except maybe for YH). He's generally much more lurkier and gives off too few to work with. Golbat Beastly Lurker. Joined on the thrawn bandwagon and disappeared. We should have lynched him a long time ago. This makes me understand why lurker policy needs to be so strong. If he was a civilian before, then we would be down a lurking civilian who was not helping at all. Now, however, we cannot afford another misslynch, and have to be more careful. But since he has barely any posts, it will be very hard to determine for sure what he is. goodkarma and DarthPunk I wanted to make sure that I wasn't skipping any details on the non-obvious choices. I've noticed some weird behavior on GK, which I've already mentioned. Since I've already gone through thrawn's filter, I can understand where GK could have found some reason to back off of thrawn. I don't think he is scum, as I can't think of why a scum would go ahead and say I'M SURE HES GUILTY, to backing off entirely. Scum generally take hesitant postures that lack commitment and conviction. I've read DarthPunk's filter carefully and wasn't able to detect anything too suspicious or compromising, as he has been making accusations and backing them up with well explained arguments. Also, both him and goodkarma have been making tons of pro-town and meaningful accusations. If one of them is mafia, it is not in this round that we will be able to lynch them unless we can pick up on something not yet noted. Stutters and Obvious to come. I'm sleepy and have to wake up early tomorrow. Please, be active, let me know what you think of this post and contribute your own ideas and suspicions as well. On August 17 2012 05:14 Z-BosoN wrote: My current lists of suspects stands as: 1) thrawn2112 2) YourHarry 3) Shady Sands Due to all of my previous reasoning, and the fact that none of them have given me reason to retract my suspicions. However, I am very firm on my decision to execute lynchers. Day one is filled with circumstantial evidence and is very easy to make wrong conclusions, and the probability of a miss-lynch is very high. What we DO know for CERTAIN is that lurkers are way more prejudicial to the town, because we cannot have decent reads on them. This is a game of reasoning and deduction, but for that, we need DATA, INFORMATION, which lurkers fail to provide. For this first day, since I don't think any of the suspicions so far are conclusive, I will vote for a lurker. We have Golbat , Stutters, and JHuyt who have been balls-out lurkers. I say we should lynch one of those. Now, speaking for myself, how will I choose? Let's take a brief look at their history: Golbat Has said nothing. Has two posts. He is lurker number one. He briefly accused thrawn with little evidence, threw some dirt on Shady, YourHarry and Solar. If we lynch him and he turns out townie, we will not have any new leads from that information, but will be down a useless townie. If we lynch him and he turns out scum, that will be great for us, but we will still have no leads. His accusations could just as easily be his scum buddies due to the fact that he hasn't done any sort of analysis on anybody. I would go even so far as to think that he will be mod-killed, due to not voting. If he suddenly posts now, we will have VERY strong reason to lynch him the next day, because posting some crap early on and disappearing until close to the deadline is a Strong Strong indicator of SCUM. Onward. Stutters He begins by agreeing that the discussion regarding SK is a waste of time he doesn't raise suspicion, doesn't do any investigative move, just says that and goes on to tell Solar to post better. Then he makes a longer post, telling Solar once again to stop with the trolling (which is fine, he was getting annoying), and making a small, non-compromising case against Shady. States some facts, then moves on, without taking an aggressive stance. Asks why getting filters is necessary (I had already mentioned this...). And just like that, he's gone. Basically he is on the same boat as Golbat. If we lynch him and he turns out townie, we will have lynched a semi-useless townie. If we lynch him and he turns out scum, great! But still no real info. So that leaves... JHyut Who begins with similar obvious cases against Solar, Shady, and YourHarry. Escapes having to post anything else saying "I'm sorry, but I don't think I can be of any more use until new evidence is posted.". Then goes on to FOS thrawn, not using any original evidence. Without explaining anything, says that Archrun was not scum, says that thrawn is not scum, then votes for Shady Sands, without explaining, and just like that he's gone. If we lynch him and he turns out townie, then thrawn will have some weight off his shoulders. He would have ignored accusing a greenie based on his lack of observation. Golbat will look about the same, because he was ignored alongside an innocent and we may figure something out on ArchRun as well (I still have to read more carefully his posts). If we lynch him and he turns out scum, Archrun and thrawn2112 will not look so good. He INSTANTLY dropped his suspicion of both these players, and this is resonated by my case against Thrawn, where I note a fishy situation between thrawn and either golbat,archrun and/or jhuyt. Here is a snippet so you guys don't have to go all the way back: + Show Spoiler + You made an FOS on Archrun by saying that he only had made 3 posts and had no scumhunting. However, you completely ignored Golbat, who only has 2 posts with one-dimensional scumhunting claims, being that the FIRST thing he says is that you are the scummiest player, to which you respond with: Is this something I need to defend myself on? I am not sober right now so I don't think I could type a clear response till I wake up. Going to sleep now, I hope to wake up and see some more posts. And you don't mention it again. This seems to me to be a clear, 100% dodge. You give IRL excuses and forget about it, even hinting that you don't feel the need to answer it. You ignore Golbat not once, but twice. A townie thrawn would definitely bother defending himself to a direct attack such as that, and would try to policy-lynch both Golbat and ArchRun. However, you also didn't call JHyut, who also has 2 posts and even worse in quality than both the mentioned posters. Why mention only ArchRun and not Golbat, who called you out or JHyut? Either this is incredibly sloppy play, or you have a scum partner. If we assume the latter, then I can only think of: 1) You are trying to distract people from Golbat by making other accusations, and completely ignored JHyut. 2) You are trying to bus your partner ArchRun so as to draw away suspicion from yourself in case he comes up red. And, you completely ignored JHyut and Golbat. 3) You don't want to call out three people at once for whatever reason and chose someone other than your scum partner. I find this Highly Suspicious. That being said, I think right now the general lurkyness of JHuyt + the lack of quality of his posts + this weird switch of votes + his affiliation with Golbat and the amount of information we can make out if he is lynched, I will go with ##Vote JHuyt PS: I noticed I got sniped. Dangerous timing there, Stutters. I will not bother changing my post, because I have to head out, but I think I will be able to log on near the deadline. Hope I sounded reasonable enough. Great job increasing the discussion in this eery end of D1! Here is Z-Boson this game On November 16 2012 03:34 Z-BosoN wrote: Allright, out of the bunch, I'd be happiest with a crossfire lynch. I don't doubt his internet connection problems, but my main problems are of these two posts: On November 14 2012 14:11 Crossfire99 wrote: I never want to get that behind ever again. Ugh. That was painful. So many useless posts. I can see why blazing really hated me for posting so much fluff in WLIIA. That's what makes it so weird this game, though. He's posted so much stuff that doesn't matter and just takes up space. In WLIIA, he came down on me so hard because of the amount of fluff I posted. He clearly knows it is anti-town, yet still does it here. I don't understand it at all. If he hadn't claimed jailkeeper (which I'm still not sure I buy), I probably would be voting for him right now. I'm willing to give him a little time to shape up his posting, but if he hasn't done it by then, I want to lynch him. I am also very confused by strong. I played with him both when he was town and scum, and he never played like this. I believe someone was talking about him possibly changing his meta because it was too obvious when he was scum. Basically he is playing weirdly and has a decent number of fluff posts. This makes me suspicious of him. I find him less scummy than blazing, though. Other than that though, I just need to digest everything. I have a serious headache now after reading all of that. If you want me to respond to something ask me a question. Otherwise I'll probably come in here sometime after I wake up tomorrow and comment on the top cases. I don't know of any other way of making sense of everything that is happening without going crazy. Oh and for anyone who is wondering why I chose blazing and strong to single out: blazing really stuck out with the amount of fluff he's been posting plus I know how he plays town because he just did it in WLIIA; as for strong , I've played with him in my last two games, plus I just figured out that he was scum in our last game, WLIIA, so his play is fresh on my mind. Bolded I read as: "look at me guys!!! I'm trying super hard to read everything!!" Underlined I read as an overexplanation to him posting his reads, which I find pretty scummy. He does that again here: On November 15 2012 10:35 Crossfire99 wrote: On November 15 2012 10:25 iamperfection wrote: Crossfire if you run away right now i will be super pissed the next 30 or so min of your belong in this thread right now. I am freaking in this thread. I have to catch up on a lot of stuff. I am sorry I wasn't here. I planned to be here and spend time on this game, but then my internet crapped out. I don't know how else I can apologize for this. Anyway, I like this case by marv. + Show Spoiler + On November 15 2012 08:58 marvellosity wrote: Z-Boson Metarelated stuff. Let's a gogo. First of all, here's a sample post from him playing scum in Newbie XXIV. You'll have to excuse the length, but the point is it's length and effort. Show nested quote + On August 22 2012 02:38 Z-BosoN wrote: @goodkarma Well that was quick. Let me see if I understand. Now, in day 3, in a MYLO situation, you propose to. On August 21 2012 09:16 goodkarma wrote: Okay then. We need to be active today, and I'm wasting no time in getting started: @Golbat: You have a lot of explaining to do for your lurking, so please start there. Also, if you would kindly explain this quote: On August 18 2012 15:59 Golbat wrote: On August 18 2012 15:50 DarthPunk wrote: On August 18 2012 15:32 Golbat wrote: On August 18 2012 15:19 DarthPunk wrote: On August 18 2012 15:10 Golbat wrote: On August 18 2012 12:55 goodkarma wrote: @YourHarry: Any suggestions as to who this someone else is that we should lynch? My first thoughts are either Orchrow or you. You seem to be very interested in keeping thrawn alive as long as possible... I suggest you start making some meaningful suggestions as to who you feel looks scummier. And it would also be helpful if you commented on people's most recent cases against thrawn, Orchrow, and yourself instead of continuing to strive to keep Thrawn alive. There are situations here where the vigi still shouldn't claim. Like what if there is an sk, but the vigi hasn't used his shot yet? A vigi counter claim here would be terrible, as he could wind up rb'ed by scum and NK'ed before he can do anything. And if we wait, who's to say town doesn't get a successful medic save or rb? Or that scum or the sk (if he exists) doesn't just sit back and do nothing for one night? There's a few different ways that there could be an sk but fewer than two night kills. Waiting achieves nothing. My read, and the read of several of us here, is that thrawn is scum. It's time for him to go. Read through the case points against him, and show us why you feel he might be town. It's more productive than your WIFOM defense of thrawn you're presenting now. I am in agreement that we should just lynch thrawn here. We seem to have caught a scum or even two, I think if thrawn flips scum then YH is almost certainly scum. You are lurking pretty hard buddy. I would also like to ask Ochrow, solarsail Z-Boson and Stutters to increase their contributions. I agree i'm lurking, but I feel that I have at least contributed well for my sparse filter. I made my case on thrawn, and cast my vote. When I see something worth discussing I mention it. I may not be living in the thread as hard as you, harry or thrawn, but at least I've contributed. What do you suggest I do to be less "lurky"? Make a shit case on someone in a misguided attempt to look active? Last game it got me lynched and cost town a vigi shot. I'll go over the thread again and see if anything catches my eye, but I don't really see a case I can make that hasn't already been made ATM. At the very least i'll prod some people in my next couple posts. Why so defensive? I understand that you got lynched for being over eager in XXII but your posting is markedly different than what I experienced there (although you were only alive for 24 hours so not much of a meta to read ) my post was not a personal attack but rather a call to all lurkers to contribute something. Apologies. I didn't mean to come off as defensive, just that I'm not intentionally lurking, just not posting uselessly. in my last game I died before I could make a big contribution, and I just want to help catch a scum before I die this game. Now is the time to step it up I guess. I've already explained what I felt was scummy about this, but in case you need a reminder: You seem more interested in staying alive right now than in actually scumhunting. "Not posting uselessly" is not an excuse for not posting at all. Even one one-line post explaining your absence would have been useful at this point, and you wouldn't even contribute that. You argue to not be lurking intentionally, but I would argue that yes, lurking for 48 hours is rather intentional. There's no way that you haven't thought up anything worthwhile in that time unless if between then and now you have forgotten altogether about this thread. And why would you do that if you want to "make a big contribution" that leads to the lynch of a scum? One more question: Why did you tunnel Thrawn so hard? ##Vote: Golbat Wait a minute. This is do or die for the town. You plan to consolidate your vote on someone who barely has any information on him and has been a hardcore lurker since day one? Because he tunneled thrawn, as if you didn't? Oh wait, that's right, you had a very sudden change of heart. But then, you go on and say that: (...)And finally there's the final vote count for day 2. I currently believe the Thrawn mislynch had heavy scum support. One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support. If you look at the votes, and see where those who have established themselves as town have voted, I'm sure you'll agree the YourHarry lynch had some reputable town support behind it. And all of the current scum suspects are on the Thrawn mislynch.: Well that's a very convenient argument, to go along with your name not being on that list. Drop in the bomb, wait for people to sheep you, then escape, no compromises. It's also ironic you didn't think of it before, when everybody wanted Shady Sands dead, who was the top poster at the moment. I'll go ahead and post the day one votes. ShadySands (5): SolarSail, thrawn2112, SolarSail, mkfuba07, Jhuyt, YourHarry, YourHarry SolarSail (0): YourHarry thrawn2112 (4): YourHarry ShadySands, Archrun, DarthPunk, Golbat goodkarma (0): YourHarry Jhuyt (2): goodkarma, Z-Boson Archrun (2): Ochrow, Stutters695. Ochrow, YourHarry Same argument you used. Look at that, everyone on ShadySands list must be quite the suspects of being scum. Because, "One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support." Except that he wasn't scum was he? This is because this argument is very weak. It only becomes suspicious when one target has a LOT of scumminess on him and a LOT of posts against him while the other looks so innocent and barely has anything substatial on him. This is not the case, because thrawn had a huge wall of text against him, not only the one you posted, but also the one that I did as well. DP also thought he was scum, and I will agree that the case against thrawn was fairly powerful. DAY ONE should have been the time we should have lynched lurkers. DAY TWO, maybe. Not day 3, with a do or die scenario, against someone who, as Obvious pointed out, is clearly not giving a rat's ass about this game. This day will be the target with the greatest case against him. I really don't like how quick it was for you to vote on golbat, and how quick some people seemed to sheep you. Regarding YourHarry, you went from him possibly being your third suspect to him being your main suspect with this post: On August 21 2012 17:59 goodkarma wrote: Regarding YourHarry: Sometimes the most obvious scum is the hardest to spot. YourHarry has a "meta" for sporadic and unpredictable play. But however strange, or different, or unpredictable his play is, if you were to look at the motivation behind his play, you can determine his alignment. With YourHarry, actions speak louder than words: -First, YourHarry is fond of withholding information from us. YourHarry starts the game by making a weak WIFOM case on me, claiming if I'm not a mason I'm scum. He withholds his read on me for a long time until pressured to provide it, and while here maybe you could argue he had some justification, this is a recurring theme. Over and over again he's done this. With this "mason case," with vote swapping history, with providing reads on certain people (most recently, Golbat). This behavior is clearly anti-town. Obviously withholding information would be advantageous for scum as it could make it harder for others to get a good read on him. Could a townie also do this? Maybe, but this is just the tip of the iceberg. -YourHarry is a fan of last-minute vote swapping. He has now twice last minute switched his vote to secure the mislynch of the top candidate. This behavior simply can't be ignored anymore. There is clear scum motivation here. -The use of WIFOM first, actual use of reasoning when pressured later. He already did that today with Golbat. He started today with soft defending him, and then decides he will actually "read his filter." I'll say that again: only after defending Golbat with WIFOM does he decide it's a good idea to read his filter. Then, finally, he decides to actually present a case which is in fact against Golbat. In other words, he's demonstrated a lack of interest in actually contributing meaningfully to scumhunting. -On top of this, today he has focused a large degree of effort on getting people to role claim. If my theory on scum's motive for the night kills is to be believed, YourHarry is trying to draw important town roles out of hiding as easy scum targets. There's loads of scum motivation to be seen behind YourHarry's actions, and there are several cases that have already been made against him. Yet somehow he seems to have avoided getting lynched. My biggest issue with lynching him, and why he hasn't been higher on my "scum reads," has been that his play is consistently bad, and it would be easy to mislynch a town YourHarry. But if you look at his actions, they fit a scum agenda. And finally there's the final vote count for day 2. I currently believe the Thrawn mislynch had heavy scum support. One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support. If you look at the votes, and see where those who have established themselves as town have voted, I'm sure you'll agree the YourHarry lynch had some reputable town support behind it. And all of the current scum suspects are on the Thrawn mislynch.: Directly from the official end of day 2 post (minus the blue text): thrawn2112, as VisceraEyes, vigilante, was lynched! + Show Spoiler [Final Vote Count] + Final Vote Count: Thrawn2112 (5): Obvious.660 (1): goodkarma, YourHarry (3): DarthPunk, Jhuyt, Stutters695 goodkarma (0): Jhuyt (1): thrawn2112, YourHarry, right now you're my top scum read. ##Unvote ##Vote: YourHarry I encourage everyone to put together their reads, as there's still time for you to express your viewpoints before we consolidate our vote in the last 24 hours of the day. And obviously supporting or dissenting case points towards this case would be much appreciated. Your arguments are nothing new, it's what has been stated on YourHarry since the beggining of time. The only thing new that you add is that he is suspiciously wanting everyone to roleclaim. But why do you focus on him, and blatantly ignore DarthPunk's same remark: On August 21 2012 13:49 DarthPunk wrote: On August 21 2012 13:24 YourHarry wrote: Good point on scums not having time to respond to your latest post. But there were common suspicions between Golbat and Jhyut that were posted hours before deadline: Z-boson's suspect list went: me, Jhyut, Golbat Darth's suspect list: Golbat, Jhyut, Solar GK's suspect list: Golbat, Jhyut, Obvious Maybe WIFOM. But to me, I still can't get my head around scum Golbat lynching town Jhyut, who seemed to be scum Golbat's only way out. Regards to no lynching, the only caveat for choosing to lynch today rather than tomorrow is the medic save. But if we decide to go ahead with our lynch today, I think claiming today is a good idea. We NEED a scum lynch today. And everyone claiming would make that much easier. Sorry I am kind of busy and am not following the thread right now. but I agree with a mass claim. we are at the stage of the game where we need as much info as possible because we cannot afford a mistake. I feel really out of my depth here, scum are either afk winning or playing really well. The same guy in which you solemnly confided your trust in your "will": (...)I have played with DarthPunk before, and I’ve seen his scum play. He has been 10 times more proactive than he was in that game about sharing scum reads and I am convinced he is legitimately searching for scum this time around. Add to that that he’s come independently to similar reads as myself, and I feel he is my strongest town read right now. So all of you get behind him as your leader and consolidate your vote under him. There is a small (note: slim) chance that he’s scum, but you’re going to have to live with that. To have a chance of winning town needs to consolidate its vote and this is the best way to do this. Come the next night, I leave it to Darthpunk to leave his successor in a will similar to this one should he also get NK’ed. Also, you say these incredibly serious accusations: (...)There's loads of scum motivation to be seen behind YourHarry's actions, and there are several cases that have already been made against him. Yet somehow he seems to have avoided getting lynched. My biggest issue with lynching him, and why he hasn't been higher on my "scum reads," has been that his play is consistently bad, and it would be easy to mislynch a town YourHarry. But if you look at his actions, they fit a scum agenda. And you don't bother explaining what you mean. You just sheep around with the main case that has already been made, add something meaningless (if you want to give it meaning, please go ahead and attack DarthPunk as well), then hint at the most serious accusations you can possibly make and don't go ahead and explain what you mean. I agree wholeheartedly that YourHarry is scum, you can go ahead and check that in my filter , but the way you write this and the arguments you use make me feel very suspicious that you may be scum as well. Now I see that the only reason I had lifted my suspicions of you were mainly WIFOM, but your latest actions have definitely raised my eyebrows. Right now is the easiest time for a scum to slip, because any small mistake now will not slip by so easily. One more thing, you say that the night kills were not discussed in detail. Read my filter, if you will. Actually this night's night kills is what is giving me additional ammo on YH. That soon to come. ##FoS goodkarma Also, here is Z-Boson's filter from that game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359489&user=28495 Notice there are a large number of big posts. Big posts with certain conclusions. All the time. Much as here. What's missing in Z-Boson's play this game? Show nested quote + On October 21 2012 22:46 Z-BosoN wrote: On October 21 2012 13:13 DarthPunk wrote: Also his defense each time is oh you must be scum and trying to trick me. Nothing townie about it. And your 'meta' read is bleh. Haha, you don't say, eh DP? Show nested quote + On October 22 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote: On October 22 2012 00:52 DarthPunk wrote: Also ZB. Postgame I would like to go through how you make such accurate reads on me all the time. It get's frustrating as scum. (and also hilarious) Oh-oh. This obviously-I'm-town post comes mostly from scum DP. Don't get so confident, I'm not dead sure on you yet! Show nested quote + On October 22 2012 01:08 Z-BosoN wrote: Sniped by austin. There we are, finally. Now waiting for the two days of unforgiving tunneling from him Hello Keirathi! How goes your scum life? Any thoughts you would like to trouble us with? Show nested quote + On October 22 2012 03:53 Z-BosoN wrote: k k Well, you really think he is scum and should insta-die before he's even had a chance to defend himself? I'm uncomfortable sending him to his grave like this... I'd like to know if you are scum. Think about it. It's the pro-town thing to do. If you are scum, it's pro-town because town will lynch a scum. If you are town, then it's pro-town that we don't have to kill you. Tell us Show nested quote + On September 30 2012 13:32 Z-BosoN wrote: Oh god. Is there anyways I can mega-vote him? Show nested quote + On September 30 2012 13:52 Z-BosoN wrote: I think someone has some real issues. Does liquid city have a psych ward? Show nested quote + On October 02 2012 11:04 Z-BosoN wrote: Omfg austin really loves me. I'm just going to ignore you this time, I make an oath that your bad arguments will bother me no more. You also seem a lot more scummy this game. At least on LVII your arguments made sense, from an ape's perspective. Right now you just seem desperate. I, Z-BosoN, solemnly swear, to never defend myself from austin's scrutiny ever again. Show nested quote + On October 22 2012 05:24 Z-BosoN wrote: Austin, holy shit. For the first time ever, I've successfully agreed with every single thing in your post, every single thing. /applauds Due to recent events though, Hapa is coming off pretty suspicious to me. This is a selection of quotes from GSL3 and Liquid City. I paste them all here to demonstrate Z-Boson's ability, and indeed propensity, to throw in light-hearted comments. He's not all serious all the time. Look at his filter here. Can you find that? At all? No, not really. It's completely absent. Arguably, this is it: Show nested quote + On November 13 2012 09:41 Z-BosoN wrote: Regarding DarthPunk, don't worry, if he's scum, I'll figure it out Right at the beginning. I find his attitude towards DP... not townie. There's a lack of interaction from Z-Bo towards DarthPunk that I wouldn't expect from townie Z-Bo. Show nested quote + On November 13 2012 11:20 Z-BosoN wrote: DP, that's the second time you've voted for him without saying why. This won't do. It goes from the above, to: Show nested quote + On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote: Why not DarthPunk? He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though. He finds him a 'good lynch', but he makes it clear that he's not using the referring to self as mislynch thing as scum. Is it that he's bitchy? Is that a scumtell? Who knows. He's "interested" to see how he goes in Day 2 though. The wording is just... ick. Show nested quote + On November 15 2012 08:21 Z-BosoN wrote: Had some internet problems.. Luckily it was on control C. In reply to marvs other post: On November 15 2012 06:14 marvellosity wrote: On November 15 2012 06:13 Z-BosoN wrote: On November 15 2012 06:06 marvellosity wrote: On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote: Why not DarthPunk? He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though. i hate this. what's your read on him and why? He can definitely be scum. The reasoning is above. I'd rather lynch Hopeless. Perhaps instead of "Why not DP?" just read "DP" and interpret that as a secondary assessment. I'd rather lynch Hopeless though, my post says it all. I find it interesting how you hated my bit on DP, instead of my bit on debears, your main lynch candidate. Is there anything else you want to add while you are at it? Do you agree with what I said? I'm finding you kinda scummy all of a sudden actually. "He can definitely be scum" is not a read, by the way. Anyone can definitely be scum. Isn't it fucking obvious that I mean that to me he has a good chance of being scum, especially given what I've written on him? 10x better than your "I'm finding you kinda scummy" which adds shit to the thread. If Hopeless is a 10, DP is a 7, go with that. Try answering the question now? I phrased it very clearly and I find it important enough that I insist. Anyways, Hopeless´s meta explanation makes sense, and that was my main issue with him. Right now I´d rather lynch DarthPunk. Gonna let marv finish to see if he will/will not change my mind. ##Unvote There's weird things going on in this post. "If hopeless is a 10" to "his meta explanation makes sense". Generally, given Z-Bo's intimate familiarity with DP's play and his meta, there seems to be no discernable effort to make any read on him on that basis. Z-Boson is calling DarthPunk scum right now, but there's no supporting evidence of games previously played. I don't buy it. Also I bolded that other line where he says I should answer just because I find the wording completely unnatural. "I find it important enough that I insist". None of this play looks like Z-Boson's town play. When he is townie, he is very indecisive about who he wants to lynch. Just look at his filter in GSL3 or Liquid city. Liquid City his vote jumped around more times than I can count and with great uncertainty, and even his final vote he still seemed clueless. And in GSL3 he agonised for days on everyone before finally voting for someone. Here there is no... communication with town, trying to figure things out properly. It's BAM, BlazingHand is scum. He pursues BlazingHand - and make no mistake, he can pursue very well as scum, check the filter I gave you. Then when BH is off the table, he comes back today with BAM, Hopeless is scum. As quoted there's the absence of Z-bo interacting in a lighthearted manner with town that I am familiar with. His filter is short, with long posts, rather than longer, with lots of short posts figuring things out. ##Vote: Z-Boson Therefore, I am switching my vote from bh who i still think is scummy, but isn't going to get lynched today, to zboson. ##Vote Z-boson That's probably the safest route for scum. Why go ahead and dip yourself amongst a complete clusterfuck of people trying to figure shit out, when you can just sheep marv, gtfo, and feel all safe? He indicates he was present later on, when he says. On November 15 2012 11:15 Crossfire99 wrote: Wow. Good job everyone who voted for him. I think that is first time I've ever seen a last minute vote switch work. I always thought they never worked. Good job. Time to go read his filter. So yea, I'd be safest with lynching him tomorrow. thrawn seems waaaaaay off his meta. He's made some long posts, trying to be all open and shit, but that doesn't give me a town read of him. Thrawn is usually much more investigative, and much more present as town. (See marv, I think this applies much better to thrawn than on me). I have to go soon, but I'll read him better when I get back. Strongandbig is trying hard to be a grush57. That's pretty much it. Can't conclude shit from reading his filter. He's evidently aware of his meta as scum, and could very well be trying to do the opposite here, but imo he's beign completely useless. marvellosity I still have to read his filter better. I didn't like the fact that he completely ignored my defense and asked me why I seemed so sure of everything, something he really didn't include in his original case. Don't want to lynch him day2 though. If he's scum, he's trying a loooot harder than on GSL. On November 14 2012 05:14 Z-BosoN wrote: On iamp I hated the reason for which he voted on me, but I share marv's stance on how he's drawing out unnecessary attention. The only thing that actually bugs me is his interaction with BH. As a townie, if I agree with someone, the last thing I would be thinking is: On November 14 2012 01:02 iamperfection wrote: On November 14 2012 01:00 marvellosity wrote: Rock Band or Whose Line are recent town games of his. do you know any of his scum games? the search function isn't helping me find all his games. What debears mentions is his radical switch from >>Hunting BH<< to >>Agreeing with BH<<. Except that this post I quoted is immediately after his vote on me. Here, he still shows interest in finding out if BH is scum, someone he had just agreed with. That being said, he is being incredibly flip-floppy, which I'm finding extremely weird. I don't think this is enough to peg him as scum though, I can imagine him as town being suspicious of everyone. I find BH's play to be much, much more appaling. I have only played one game with him, so I'm not super aware of his meta, but it is totally different than his Liquid City one. Here he has made one major case, a weak one at that, and established an unusally high amount of certainty on it, calling it "a masterpiece". That being said, right now I'm interested in debears, Crossfire, and thrawn. Crossfire is rather obvious, he's not posted and is heading off towards a modkill/replacement. I'm not considering him a lynch choice until he actually decides to post. Thrawn, however, is unusually inactive. I remember him as townie being much, much more active than this. He's actually managed to make one entrance post: [ http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=19#361 ]. Shows some suspicions, ask some questions, and is gone like the wind. debears has also raised my eyebrows in this start of the game. He's been extremely fluffy in the beggining, and no matter what his meta is, that's not pro-town. Also, I don't like the feel of his case against iamp. He's establishing himself on some of hapa's arguments, but does not deal with this: On November 14 2012 02:53 marvellosity wrote: I don't understand why it's scum play. 1. Believes miller claim 2. Later decides he's scummy The scum motivation is what? He wanted a case to jump on? Is that it? Which to me feels like a natural step in accusing iamp of being scum. The most he's said is that he didn't agree with it, and I don't find that satisfactory at all given that he is pursuing a scumread. The only argument he added was "guilty conscience", to which I find very weak, as I don't find any motive for iamp to pursue something he doesn't think is strong. Anyways, had debears actually voted based on that, I would have been much more suspicious. Right now he just has my eyebrows raised. @debears I'd like you to expand a bit more on your read of iamp. 1) I get that you think he has bad reasoning for his switch. Why does this make him scummy? Bad reasoning =/= scummy unless it has scum motivation. What is the scum motivation of his actions? 2) Here you try to make this contrast: 1) He cares about how the town is viewing him 2) He doesn't believe his reasoning is that great for his vote -note the "well I think his actions speak louder". It's a weak statement. Not a strong one, (a strong one) which should be warranted when you change your read from town to scum in literally no time I've mentioned this above, but I'd like you to answer it. Why would scum iamp establish a vote for which he himself believes is not based on good reasoning? I don't understand why you are finding this scummy. Interpret this as: me not buying it. Now tell me that this is Town ZB and not scum ZB. You'll also note his town play (GSL III) is totes different Yes. His town play is very, very different in pretty much the exact way you mentioned in your case against him. There is no doubt in my mind that ZB is the last scum. On November 18 2012 10:19 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 18 2012 10:17 iamperfection wrote: On November 18 2012 10:15 DarthPunk wrote: Nah. I want ZB to flip. Then if the game is still going we can check out that wall of text of his. its not that long read it bro I did read it. I still think he is scum. If he is town it holds more value for me than it does currently. It looks exactly how he thinks it would. A mechanism to escape from his lynch. It only becomes useful when he dies. There is no one I want to lynch over ZB. And the only person I would consider is clarity. The thing that I really don't like is his insistence on Z-BosoN meta. That was DarthPunk main point against Z-Boson, please check the conclusions for all his cases and you can find something like "this is not how town Z-B plays". And I really don't like this because Z-Bo had given a reasonable and honest explanation for the change in his meta and has given us elements to back it up. These points show that DarthPunk was using double-standards and confirmation bias wrt Z-Boson. Part III --- The Comeback of the Scum After Z-Boson flips, DarthPunk has been quiet for a while at the exception of a few posts. I found this one which could be the perfect post to set up a series of mislynches. On November 19 2012 15:10 DarthPunk wrote: lynch Djo clarity and S&B and I doubt we could lose this.THis game is a pain in the arse to keep up with. Far too many posts most of them are useless and are just repeating what has already been said. I am going to look through the filters of those three players and see if I can come up with anything. Before attacking me, he has misinterpreted and twisted my posts and accused me to push lynch baits. I want you to understand that the lynch bait is me, and that scum DP is pushing my mislynch right now. I know I look bad because of the setup speculation but I was honestly thinking that it would solve the game. And I hope you realize that it could have if debears had lived with green or red checks to share with us. Anyway, I've given strong townreads on Kickstart and Iamp here in this post On November 20 2012 03:01 Djodref wrote: <snip> @ Hopeless At the moment, my strongest town reads are Iamp and Kickstart. Iamp looks the most concerned about this game with Clarity. He has presented good contributions and promotes a good town atmosphere for the discussion. He has shown interest and provided his insights on almost everything what was going on in the thread. Moreover, I don't feel that his posts are forced. He just looks genuinely town. He is the guy I would never want to lynch. Kickstart, even he doesn't participate enough at my taste, really gives me a first time town player feeling. I'm just coming out of my newbie games and they are full of games like him. If he was scum, I think he would have produced some Crossfire-like looking posts on day1 and that he would have already broke into pieces at this point. He needs to get free of the "I'm going to get suspicious if I post burden". I think that he could show clearly that he is town if he could post more freely. I'll give him "carte blanche" for his postings until we get at MYLO, if we have to come to this, which I doubt. I might be stupid to insist on this point, but I'm going to eat my hat if Kickstart has sniped debears. The last scum has to be an experienced player in my opinion. and I still get post like this from DP On November 20 2012 21:18 DarthPunk wrote: Djo. Explain in your own words why clarity and Perfection are town reads. On November 20 2012 20:29 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 20 2012 20:20 Djodref wrote: On November 20 2012 19:56 DarthPunk wrote: On November 20 2012 10:58 iamperfection wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=60#1192 so i was going though his filter again making a case but i ran into this post. Scum i don't think would call out his own member that quickly would he? im having a hard time getting past this especially when cross had little attention on him. You should know this s not true. Cross was a weak player.No doubt they were worried about him in the QT. he would be an ideal bus. Oh I am back BTW and catching up with the thread. Also everyone calline out my inactivity GTFO. I have a 10 page filter day two. I have pushed my scum reads. Am I playing badly? Sure I am. I have zero motivation right now. It feels like I am doing an assignment. But here I am reading the thread when I have no inclination to do so. There are some spammers in this game who have fucking mass posted with little fucking content of value. (clarity) Who make this game a chore to read. I have a strong town read on S&B he is a mislynch. I want to lynch clarity or DJO. I am total lynch bait right now. Anyone pushing a lynch on me is fucking suspicious. Enter DJo. Subtly wanting to push me and fucking Iamp. like seriously pushing the inactives who he should have a damn town read on?? anyway. Now I am back reading the thread. Heaps of shit is pissing me off which is motivating me in a way. so that is good I guess. Top Scum reads. Clarity, Djo. Cool story bro... I have some doubts about you and they grow larger when you are clearly twisting what I have said. I doubt you can show that I want to push iamp because that it simply a lie. Sup Scumzor. I can find the post or did I misread the part where you asked BH to comment on both Iamp and myself after heavily implying you had altered your town read on me? I can guarentee that if he had said he thought we were scummy you would have jumped all over us. LOL. That you were feeling out a wagon on lynch-bait was so fucking transparent dude. And as I am reading through your filter there is very little that suggests TOWN to me. On November 20 2012 22:11 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 20 2012 22:08 Djodref wrote: On November 20 2012 22:02 DarthPunk wrote: On November 20 2012 21:53 Clarity_nl wrote: I was the one who asked him what he thought of kickstart, and now you're saying it's bad he made a post on kickstart? You say he's wishy washy, but there is a fucking conclusion at the end of that post. He points out all his observations and makes a conclusion. It was wishy washy. But I don't really care what you think. The conclusion was that he was a newbie. And that was not difficult to see for anyone. Some conclusion right there. It is worse for him that you asked him to make that post because that was his only real analysis or contribution on anything even remotely consisting of scum hunting. Without that he has done none whatsoever. That's a lie. I have clearly stated what was my read on him after my analysis. Newbie town it is. Ok I must have misread. regardless, the way in which you constructed that post was wishy-washy. here is why he might be town Here is why he could be scum I think he is newbie town. Which for all intents and purposes leaves a caveat, as newbie town is a lot closer to scummy than a 'Strong' town read. Either way he is not reading the thread properly or he wants to discredit me while my attention is over him. Our exchanges about Kickstart clearly showed that he is twisting my stance about Kickstart, which has been clear since the beginning. Conclusion Bussing Hapa
Z-Boson lynch
The Comeback
##Unvote ##Vote DartPunk | ||
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On November 21 2012 02:31 Clarity_nl wrote: Djo I agree he looks scummy right now but do you truly believe he's scummier than snb? Assume both of them are town, who would you rather have around during lylo? @ Clarity Yeah, I think he is scummy than S&B. Actually, you made a very good point when you said that scum wants scummy people around. S&B and me had quite the same way of approaching this game. Actually, I've realized that I was sheeping with my vote against him and I mainly was thinking about MYLO and LYLO stuff. Regarding lylo, I don't understand your question. If they are both town, then I cannot be at lylo with them because I'm also town and we would have won this game already. Also, I really didn't like his case against me. It's true that I didn't scumhunt but the mass claim plan was supposed to give us an easy victory. My reasons for tunneling BH were as good as his Z-Bo tunnel. The Kickstart stuff is showing that he wants to discredit me when I start to show some interest about him because it doesn't reflect my stance at all. And I find the fact that he is posing as a lynch bait ridiculous when I was simply having some doubts about his "confirmed" townieness. How can he be so sure that I'm scum ? Regardless of his alignment, that's confirmation bias. I'm not sure that he is scum yet, but I sure want everybody to have a good look at him. | ||
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On November 20 2012 22:58 Clarity_nl wrote: Darth, this isn't snb's meta for town either. All his contributions are very timed with when he's in the spotlight. All that leaves is your gut. Scummy about your current behavior is sudden emotional involvement in the game, where you showed none before, you have a scum read on me and djo. I'm town and I have a townread on djo. The fact that you think snb is town. This is all a smart way to go about things as scum. As snb will likely be lynched tomorrow if not today, so it behooves scum to keep him alive if possible. Hopeless is confirmed, bh is confirmed, iamp is town, kickstart is town, djo is neutral, you are neutral You look scummier than djo, currently, because your reads have been the polar opposite of mine all game. Like I said, I'm focusing on getting snb lynched today and I will do my research in the nightcycle. So that's all I got. @ Clarity Actually, this very post was very enlightening for me. Because this is something I did when I was scum in my Looney mafia game. I defended the scummy newbie player like hard. Hopeless should remember how I was trying to prevent us from a daoud mislynch. This would be a very smart move from a scum DP. S&B, if he is town, looks bad enough to be pushed as a mislynch when the situation gets really tricky at MYLO or LYLO. | ||
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Regarding your case, I think the main point was I didn't scumhunt. I know it was bad but I honestly thought that the mass claim was going to solve the game for us. The first reason was that I was pretty sure that BH was scum and such a plan would have caught him fake claiming for sure, the second reason was that we could get enough confirmed town (if BH was not scum) to force the last scum to concede right away. It was a reasonable plan and at least S&B agreed and pushed it as well. That means that at least one town player was in favor of this plan. I think that Clarity, iamp and Hopeless can also understand what I wanted to achieve. Me tunneling BH was also reasonable because he was my top scumread (ok maybe not reasonable, the truth is that I was obsessed by him). I know I didn't put enough effort in this game during D2 otherwise I would have defend Z-Bo more and presented a good case against BH but this was my fucking week-end and I'm getting wasted on my week-ends What about the meta part in your case against me ? I found out that you value meta a lot so why don't you look into my filter as scum pardoner in the Looney Game and present a meta case against me if you truly think that I'm the last scum ? | ||
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I'll try to provide my analysis on Clarity tomorrow before going to work, I have some notes but the DP case took all my time. Night guys ! | ||
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On November 21 2012 07:51 iamperfection wrote: I'm gonna guess djos vote isn't going to change since he is asleep? No, I'm just waking up. I have to catch up with the thread and I'll see if I have to reconsider. I'll be at work at the deadline though so I'll check from my phone | ||
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On November 21 2012 08:10 Blazinghand wrote: So here's where I'm at amongst the unconfirmed townies: Definitely town: iamp, kick probably town: dp Lynch: SnB, Clarity, Drojef I'm gonna sit down again with each of SnB, Clarity and Drojef, then make my vote. I like how you mispell my name on purpose but I have to ask you to call me Djo now | ||
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What does everybody think about the fact that he is the only one with a town read on S&B ? Nobody up for a DP lynch today ? If I have to choose right now, I would lynch Clarity over S&B, but I don't want to come to that. | ||
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On November 21 2012 08:26 DarthPunk wrote: K I'm back. I'd rather lynch clarity than S&B and djo isn't happening for some reason. So I am going to consolidate onto clarity. ##Unvote ##vote: Clarity Well, maybe your case against me was not convincing enough... Can I have my own meta case if you get the time to spare ? I'm jealous of Z-Bo right now... | ||
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On November 21 2012 08:31 DarthPunk wrote: Also. The case on me was terrible. Just pointing out bad play. I may have played poorly but there is nothing that shows a scum mindset or motive in that case. Djo, on the other hand, has not scumhunted at all until I pointed it out and then crossvotes me. Also. I would like to remind everyone that I was being pushed by scum, my mislynch was stopped by town,My not being lynched resulted in a bandwagon on hapa whom I called out in my death post which I then hammered and resulted in a scum lynch. If you don't think I am town after that I am speechless. There was a bandwagon on Z-Bo in between and you were a fervent support of it. The persons you really called in your death post were Z-Bo and Clarity. | ||
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On November 21 2012 08:34 Clarity_nl wrote: Since you're not getting lynched it seems, djo, can it wait please? I'd rather people focus on the people at risk of getting lynched. Fair enough... Honestly, you are a problem for me right now Clarity. My guts tell me that you are town, your play feels different from last game. You are interacting with everyone and shows a genuine concern for this game in my eyes. The problem I have is that I should lynch you from a rational point of view. The case with you interactions with Hapa from BH is a strong evidence against you in my eyes. S&B shows that you could have somehow faked all your interactions and concern for this game. What I can't really explain myself is that you don't like confusion and last minute shenanigans when our last game (this game also by the way) has proved that they could be good for town because scum might be caught after the confusion. I don't like the way you defended yourself from the cases against you because you are mainly calling them bad and I don't see a real intention to change the mind of your attacker and WIFOM was used sometimes. So for all this, I don't want you at LYLO for sure. Regarding S&B, I've come to realize that we took the same approach for this game, so I could only blame him for being less active than me, which is not enough to lynch him. But right now, I would like to lynch DarthPunk above the both of you. For the reasons I have stated in my case. | ||
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On November 21 2012 08:36 Clarity_nl wrote: Djo, you point this out but you're willing to lynch me over snb? I want DP to be lynched today but I would choose you over S&B if I have to make the choice. But that would be stupid and against my feelings so please everybody reconsider DP | ||
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On November 21 2012 08:37 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2012 08:34 Djodref wrote: On November 21 2012 08:31 DarthPunk wrote: Also. The case on me was terrible. Just pointing out bad play. I may have played poorly but there is nothing that shows a scum mindset or motive in that case. Djo, on the other hand, has not scumhunted at all until I pointed it out and then crossvotes me. Also. I would like to remind everyone that I was being pushed by scum, my mislynch was stopped by town,My not being lynched resulted in a bandwagon on hapa whom I called out in my death post which I then hammered and resulted in a scum lynch. If you don't think I am town after that I am speechless. There was a bandwagon on Z-Bo in between and you were a fervent support of it. The persons you really called in your death post were Z-Bo and Clarity. Yeah. And I had a legitimate scum read on him. If you think being wrong and milynching makes someone scum you are sorely mistaken and that does not change the previous facts. In fact, I am more likely to look badly after a mislynch as town than as scum because as scum I know how people are going to flip and I can make myself look good based on that foreknowledge. That's the reason why I think you chose Hapa over Z-Bo after all. Because your scum read on Hapa was mainly based on the fact that you "obviously saw" that he was bussing Z-Bo. Could you elaborate on your sudden scum read on Hapa because this one didn't look legitimate in my eye ? | ||
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On November 21 2012 08:43 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2012 08:34 Djodref wrote: On November 21 2012 08:31 DarthPunk wrote: Also. The case on me was terrible. Just pointing out bad play. I may have played poorly but there is nothing that shows a scum mindset or motive in that case. Djo, on the other hand, has not scumhunted at all until I pointed it out and then crossvotes me. Also. I would like to remind everyone that I was being pushed by scum, my mislynch was stopped by town,My not being lynched resulted in a bandwagon on hapa whom I called out in my death post which I then hammered and resulted in a scum lynch. If you don't think I am town after that I am speechless. There was a bandwagon on Z-Bo in between and you were a fervent support of it. The persons you really called in your death post were Z-Bo and Clarity. This is bullshit BTW. I had several pre death posts. My reads changed in between which is a TOWN trait. Show nested quote + On November 15 2012 10:43 DarthPunk wrote: On November 15 2012 10:37 iamperfection wrote: On November 15 2012 10:35 DarthPunk wrote: On November 15 2012 10:34 iamperfection wrote: DP DO NOT RUN AWAY IF YOUR TOWN. Give reads on the people voting on you. I just did. more How about this. I was probably not going to be lynched until two of the best town players I know who are very rarely wrong about scum reads lead the most retarded wagon in the world on me which is wrong. So either they are worse than I thought. Can't read me at all or are scum. Hapa is not playing the same as GSL he is playing worse. Hi scum game is townie though so be wary of that. But he is not giving the confident and often correct reads taht he usually gives as town. He is starting up a stupid fucking wagon that he is usually wary of as town. Hapa is like the fucking divine presence of level headedness usually but this band wagon is not it. BH I have never played with before. But he is reading scum into things that should not be read as scummy. SO he might just be worse than I thought. Marv is actually fucking right although rightly confused but seems townie from genuinely wanting to figure shit out rather than leap onto a retarded wagon. Also. How much fucking conviction does BH have in his reads when I am so scummy but then he insta votes for a fucking Coin toss. BH is scum. Because he doesn't give a fuck about the lynch as long as he lynches a townie. Here I call out HAPA and BH as my top scumreads. AFTER the previous post that you are misrepresenting as my only death post. This was BEFORE I switched off ZB onto HAPA whom due to additional information became my number one scum read which is reflected in the alterations between my death posts. I have difficulties to imagine you figuring it out Hapa in such a short time interval. Could I have some details about what changed your mind between your 2 "last will" posts ? | ||
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And you figured out he was scum by association with your top scum read, which was Z-Bo. You found out that Hapa was trying to derail Z-Bo lynch with debears and then found out that he was bussing him. Many people were in favor of your lynch and you singled out Hapa from all of them. Hapa was going to get lynched at D2 because so many people were realizing that his play was not right. You escaped the lynch and got a good opportunity of lynching Z-Bo while preparing your bus for D2. But things happened more quickly than you thought. | ||
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This is wrong, I think we should lynch DP to win this game. Can I ask everyone voting for Clarity right now to assess their conviction in his guiltiness ? Do you really think that he is the last scum ? My list among non-confirmed players from the most town to the most scummy so far goes down to
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On November 21 2012 09:33 Blazinghand wrote: so Kickstart here's what I suspect will happen over the course of these cycles, assuming we only mislynch: Today: lynch one from SnB+Clarity+Djo+DP Tonight: I'm shot Tomorrow: lynch one more from SnB+Clarity+Djo+DP Tomorrow night: Hopeless is shot Final day: Kickstart, Iamperfection, and the last 2 from the 4 scummy players are alive-- 3 town, 1 scum. Assuming we only mislynch until MYLO, we'll have a MYLO with you, iamp, and probably Djo+DP. I'm very sure scum will be shooting me and hopeless tonight and tomorrow night (though maybe not in that order). So we have 3 lynches into 4 players to find 1 scum. Any town or scum reads within those 4 will help us narrow it down. I totally second this Post. | ||
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Anyone up for dp last minute counterwagon ? Why would scum keep on trying like he does ? Why Clarity is not conceding at this point ? | ||
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you have really improved your game if you flip scum... | ||
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GG Clarity | ||
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On November 21 2012 14:15 DarthPunk wrote: also his vote was parked uselessly day one on the wagon scum were pushing. i.e. ME. @ DarthPunk Do you plan to write a meta case against me or you don't think it is necessary ? I personally don't use meta but you do so I would appreciate to see what you can bring against me. Here are the links for my previous games. On November 03 2012 10:43 Djodref wrote: For everyone, here is the compilation of the games I've played so far with the corresponding filters. It's very good that we know each others but I guess that you didn't really research my meta last game. So here you go ! -Newbie Mini Mafia XXVIII as Cop -Looney Lynching Mini Mafia as mafia pardoner -Newbie Mini Mafia XXIX as VT -Newbie Mini Mafia XXX as Jailkeeper <snip> Also, at the exception of the lack of scumhunting, which I gave a reason for, do you see any point that I didn't address correctly in your case ? | ||
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On November 21 2012 13:42 iamperfection wrote: i think djo is town and im gonna say s&b and dp in that order is the way to go. @ iamp I would prefer that we lynch DP first so this game could end faster. I'll review S&B again but I would like your comments about my case against DP please... | ||
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On November 21 2012 15:10 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2012 14:45 Djodref wrote: On November 21 2012 14:15 DarthPunk wrote: also his vote was parked uselessly day one on the wagon scum were pushing. i.e. ME. @ DarthPunk Do you plan to write a meta case against me or you don't think it is necessary ? I personally don't use meta but you do so I would appreciate to see what you can bring against me. Here are the links for my previous games. On November 03 2012 10:43 Djodref wrote: For everyone, here is the compilation of the games I've played so far with the corresponding filters. It's very good that we know each others but I guess that you didn't really research my meta last game. So here you go ! -Newbie Mini Mafia XXVIII as Cop -Looney Lynching Mini Mafia as mafia pardoner -Newbie Mini Mafia XXIX as VT -Newbie Mini Mafia XXX as Jailkeeper <snip> @ DarthPunk Well, it's not a big deal for me because I know I am town and my whole setup speculation setup ordeal should have been able to solve us the game without scumhunting. I'm sorry if I have preferred a pure logical way to solve this game to the hard way (i.e. going through >150 pages of posts). I'm pretty sure that the last scum would be forced to concede right now if we could have one or two more confirmed townies. It has turned out to backfire at me because debears had most likely a check on Hopeless who is already confirmed by the setup. But it makes me an easy target, so I've been very wary of the fact that you came after me knowing for sure that I was scum. My case on you stands and you didn't address it yet. So, yes, I'm tunneling you. Also, at the exception of the lack of scumhunting, which I gave a reason for, do you see any point that I didn't address correctly in your case ? You seem to be under the impression that this is not a big deal. That is false. It is a huge scum tell. And I may look at your meta if I have the time but whatever I find will not change the fact that you did not scum hunt at all until prompted and you are now tunnelling the guy accusing you. | ||
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@ DarthPunk Well, it's not a big deal for me because I know I am town and my whole setup speculation setup ordeal should have been able to solve us the game without scumhunting. I'm sorry if I have preferred a pure logical way to solve this game to the hard way (i.e. going through >150 pages of posts). I'm pretty sure that the last scum would be forced to concede right now if we could have one or two more confirmed townies. It has turned out to backfire at me because debears had most likely a check on Hopeless who is already confirmed by the setup. But it makes me an easy target, so I've been very wary of the fact that you came after me knowing for sure that I was scum. My case on you stands and you didn't address it yet. So, yes, I'm tunneling you. | ||
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On November 21 2012 16:23 Blazinghand wrote: The problem with your setup speculation garbage, and this was always clear to me, is that the only guy who knows when he should claim is the blue himself. debears didn't have any results worth talking about so he didn't claim. Yeah he got shot so it's irrelevant but what if he wasn't gonna get shot and you outed him with some terrible mass VT claim and he was like "yeah guys sorry i don't have any results" or something? The point is you can't just rely on the setup to win you the game, and it doesn't matter if you claim you think the setup was going to win the game. We're playing mafia, and mafia isn't about... whatever your pages and pages of letters were about. But the thing is, even if you DID post all that, that's not really a problem if you were also playing the damn game. But you weren't. Like SnB, you were just tunneling without engaging in the town discourse, and so you can see how it's hard for people to make townreads on you. I like Clarity but I don't know how he could think you're town. We're lynching SnB first, but only just. Yeah, I admitted the fact that he should have been the blues decision. If he wasn't going to get shot, he would at least have brought us one green check. I didn't think that he was going to get shot, I was expecting Hopeless to get shot. | ||
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On November 21 2012 17:31 DarthPunk wrote: Blazinghand. I am super afraid if you die tonight I won't be able to lynch Djo if S&B flips green. Like. It is super obvious he is scum to me. I would really like to lynch him and then maybe S&B. I understand that you want to keep S&B for your last mislynch. I would do the same if I was scum. | ||
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On November 21 2012 17:36 Blazinghand wrote: though DP claims to think of SnB as green so I wonder how a scum DP would get around that at MYLO Well, if I'm correct then let me see... Kickstart would do the job for him I think... You just need one town player to be wrong, right ? | ||
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Honestly told, at the moment, you are the scummiest but I have been wrong about BH for all game long so I want to take all the possibilities into account first. | ||
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On November 20 2012 22:53 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 20 2012 22:47 Clarity_nl wrote: So do you believe snb is town? If so please explain why. Because if Djo is most likely scum and I'm 2nd most likely that means snb is town, right? Yes I think he is town. Reason 1 meta. This isn't the S&B I rolled scum with Previously. Reason 2. He has actually contributed reads and cases. Finally it is my gut instinct because I doubt scum S&B would play this way as scum even if he has shifted his meta. Could you elaborate on your town read on S&B ? | ||
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On November 21 2012 18:02 DarthPunk wrote: At least I have a town read on S&B. He has been saying S&B is sooooo scummy we shouldn't leave him till last, then he lets clarity get lynched and now wants to lynch me first. I have a town read on S&B that is why I don;t want to lynch him. Djo has a ? read on S&B and is being incredibly wishy-washy about actually lynching him. I didn't let Clarity get lynched. I was checking the thread with my phone for possible last minute counter bandwagon. I would hope to have one against you and I honestly don't know what I would have done if I had the opportunity to hammer S&B. The "consolidation" of Kickstart was a bad move in my opinion. Actually, right now, I'm not sure of who could be the last scum, and I would like you to give me some time to check what people have said of Clarity. I want to understand how this mislynch happened first and then re-evaluate my reads (and I mean even Kickstart and Iamp). I'm thinking that you are the last scum right now, but I wouldn't bet my life on it. I'll put enough work to present good cases (be it town cases or scum cases) so we can find the truth together. You might still be town, and I would appreciate you to get off your train and remove your confirmation bias goggles because I assure you that I'm going to flip green in you manage push your lynch on me. | ||
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On November 21 2012 19:12 Blazinghand wrote: djodref just try to get it done inside the next 12 hours or else i likely won't be able to respond to it Yeah, I should be able to do it... | ||
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On November 21 2012 19:14 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2012 19:11 Djodref wrote: On November 21 2012 18:02 DarthPunk wrote: At least I have a town read on S&B. He has been saying S&B is sooooo scummy we shouldn't leave him till last, then he lets clarity get lynched and now wants to lynch me first. I have a town read on S&B that is why I don;t want to lynch him. Djo has a ? read on S&B and is being incredibly wishy-washy about actually lynching him. I didn't let Clarity get lynched. I was checking the thread with my phone for possible last minute counter bandwagon. I would hope to have one against you and I honestly don't know what I would have done if I had the opportunity to hammer S&B. The "consolidation" of Kickstart was a bad move in my opinion. Actually, right now, I'm not sure of who could be the last scum, and I would like you to give me some time to check what people have said of Clarity. I want to understand how this mislynch happened first and then re-evaluate my reads (and I mean even Kickstart and Iamp). I'm thinking that you are the last scum right now, but I wouldn't bet my life on it. I'll put enough work to present good cases (be it town cases or scum cases) so we can find the truth together. You might still be town, and I would appreciate you to get off your train and remove your confirmation bias goggles because I assure you that I'm going to flip green in you manage push your lynch on me. Cool story bro. Have you ever considered the fact that we could be both town ? Give me some time to check how the Clarity mislynched went out and I should be able to come back with more certainty. | ||
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On November 21 2012 19:35 Blazinghand wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2012 19:27 DarthPunk wrote: Ok, seeing as no one is talking all that much I am out. Hopefully we can get a load of info in the thread an hour before deadline. why not now? scum's shoot me anyways Yeah, I think you are right, given Hopeless level of participation, you are more likely to be NKed tonight. | ||
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If we ever get to MYLO, it is always preferable to vote for a no-lynch and wait for LYLO or are they some situations where it's better to lynch at MYLO ? | ||
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On November 21 2012 19:41 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2012 19:39 Djodref wrote: On November 21 2012 19:35 Blazinghand wrote: On November 21 2012 19:27 DarthPunk wrote: Ok, seeing as no one is talking all that much I am out. Hopefully we can get a load of info in the thread an hour before deadline. why not now? scum's shoot me anyways Yeah, I think you are right, given Hopeless level of participation, you are more likely to be NKed tonight. He says as he sends in his night action. Could you get off my back for a minute ? This is pissing me off and I would like to stay rational right now... | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On November 17 2012 06:36 strongandbig wrote: this post took me like more than half an hour to write so yall best actually read it. I go through my filter and look at stuff. On November 13 2012 10:01 strongandbig wrote: if zb was scum he would have made a much longer post ##vote: hapahauli im down with that iamperfection thinkamajig this post makes me look bad. this would be a good argument for me being scum. scum love to vote for their buddies early. In reality, I just thought iamperfection's argument seemed kinda good about the weirdness of Hapahauli's first vote/minicase/whatever-thing. <big snip> On November 13 2012 21:57 strongandbig wrote: yo marv you're gonna have to edit out that post about the kenpachi rule debears is scum tho in other developments: seriously, I wasn't really thinking too hard about what I posted last night. Believe me or not, I didn't intend to "claim VT" when I made the post in question. I'm going in to work in a couple hours, I'll read over the thread more carefully. However, here's my unfiltered thoughts atm marv: i hate trying to read marv, apparently someone caught him on meta analysis a game or two ago so I'll have to look that up but it's so much easier just radfielding him bh: thinks i'm town therefore my first reaction is to think he's town lol. i like his case on zboson though. hapa: scummiest of the actual good players in the thread atm more reading time here's another post that makes me look bad for a real reason. Randomly throwing suspicion on hapa without providing any reasons. Looks like I'm setting myself up for good distancing in case he flips before me, but doesn't actually create any danger for him. The actual reasoning that led me to write that line was pretty simple. Hapa's posting just wasn't very good. There was the early thing iamperfection caught, and the stupid post of Hapa's attacking me for "not sharing any information about my reads" or whatever (it's above in the section where I call things stupid). And in general, I expect Hapa to be pretty aggressive and frequently wrong, but to do so in a headstrong and confident way with fewer obvious logical flaws. However, I kind of let up on him later when he started emulating his town posting better, like the following post: On November 14 2012 03:56 strongandbig wrote: Show nested quote + On November 14 2012 02:31 Hapahauli wrote: Catching up on my lunch break. Regarding SnB ##Unvote After sleeping on it, I'm starting to agree that his play is too far of a deviation from his normal scum play to be scummy. I don't know what he's thinking, but it's much more reckless of a playstyle than I'd expect of scum SnB. (FWIW, the fact that he's continuing this behavior into today makes me think he's an SK or something. It falls into that "townie but really off" type of play that's common with 3rd party roles.) On November 13 2012 17:42 Clarity_nl wrote: Hapa, this still bothers me. I asked you what you thought about SnB's claim and if you thought it was bad for town, and you answered: On November 13 2012 10:12 Hapahauli wrote: @ Clarity Well in a theoretical sense yes, but you remember how well that worked with Cheesecake in Newbie XXX right? It's really not that significant IMO. You compared this to Cheese's claim from NMM XXX even though the situations are completely different. The only reason Cheese claimed was because he thought only VT's knew the VT flavor. So he was trying to claim without alerting scum. SnB just outright claimed VT. After I explain why it's different, you basically give me the same answer: On November 13 2012 10:25 Hapahauli wrote: On November 13 2012 10:14 Clarity_nl wrote: It's not like he flavor claimed, thinking others didn't know the flavor. How are those situations alike? You don't think it's a weird move for a VT to claim VT day 1? No I don't find it weird. I think it's just a pointless comment that can be made by either alignment. Again, see Mr. Cheesecake's "odd" VT claim time in the Newbie game. Him trusting Z-Bo's claim so up-front is a bit strange, but again, I don't know if it's just bad logic or scum knowing who's who. I haven't seen anything alignment indicative from him yet. The other thing I don't really like is the use of "theoretically yes" and "IMO" Whenever I've seen you post you tend to be direct and with conviction, but not this time. I still believe both situations to be the same - they are both strangely timed VT claims. Cheese's intent to "signal" other townies isn't a significant difference, as both potentially fall into the category of "scum wanting to look less suspicious despite not being suspicious." The situations are not identical by any means, but they're more similar than not. Regardless, I'm not suspicious of SnB anymore so I don't want to dwell on this. Regarding the Z-Boson Case I really disagree with it. The case is a giant anecdote for how Z-Boson's actions could be scummy rather than why they're scummy. ZB is setting up to look good as a wagon starter (since scum don't like to stick their necks out) and appear to contribute to town, but if you read his astonishingly short filter, it's clear he's not actually helping. He's flinging shit at the wall and hoping it sticks. All of this isn't valid at all hours into D1. All of the stuff described above is completely non-alignment indicative in the early game. Z-Boson has been less active than I'm used to seeing him, but again early D1 caveats. No reason to vote him. Regarding iamperfection His sudden flip-flop on Z-Boson is really strange. He goes from strongly trusting Z-Bo's claim early in the game to a vote for really shitty reasons. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=22#434 In his vote post, he first picks a fight with BH - odd considering that he's ultimately going to agree with his read. He puts a lot of stock into one of Z-Bo's early D1 postings and early-game banter (meaningless). He then talks about the "iamperfection rule" and another early D1 wishy-washy post. I wouldn't mind this if it weren't for his discussion about the miller claim: I know i said early on that i thought the miller claim was more of a town tell but well i think zbos actions speak louder. WHAT?!?!? Iamperfection had almost no doubt about Z-Bo's motives, and he's willing to do a complete 180 with the above reasoning. Just take a look at his previous stance, made right after Z-Bo's claim: On November 13 2012 09:45 iamperfection wrote: i guess theirs no reason not to believe zbos right? has to be to risky to do if he was scum right. He immediately trusted Z-Boson without question the second Z-Bo made that claim. Then all of a sudden now he turns around and can doubt the claim he so strongly believed in earlier. It makes no sense to me, and it looks like scum jumping on someone the second they have the reason to. This would be fine if he had a good case, but he just hinges on a couple of early D1 posts and the "iamperfection" rule as opposed to anything substantial. It doesn't help that the rest of his filter reads really artificially confrontational to me. It feels like he's trying to overcompensate for being caught in GSL III for not showing his "bravado" throughout the game. ##Vote iamperfection this is much more like what i expect out of hapahauli, i guess it just took a little while for him to get into character. that said his case is pretty bad for reasons i explained above One last thing: On November 14 2012 03:52 strongandbig wrote: Show nested quote + On November 14 2012 03:27 debears wrote: ....... Ok reasoning to switch from insta town read to scum read.... When I get back to my comp I will relook at it. I didnt come to the same conclusion but look at the reasoning for his town read, it was also terrible. it was a visceral (no eyes) reaction, the first thing to come out of his gut, just like "oh i guess zboson is town" was the first thing to come out of my gut when he posted it. So he changes from a weak, gut-reaction-based townread to a scum read. It's not like he was hard defending zboson or even really thinking about it in a way that we should be super concerned about, he was just pooping ideas out onto the thread. this is where I explain why hapahauli's case was bad. it was the same case, it was still bad. @ S&B Why did you go dig into your own filter the most incriminating posts against you ? Why did you include them with other points regarding the Kenpachi rule and what your play was about during D1 ? Could you explain your motivation for it ? | ||
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We still have 2 confirmed townies at the moment. When are you going to be available during this mafia night ? | ||
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On November 21 2012 22:40 strongandbig wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2012 22:34 Djodref wrote: + Show Spoiler + On November 17 2012 06:36 strongandbig wrote: this post took me like more than half an hour to write so yall best actually read it. I go through my filter and look at stuff. On November 13 2012 10:01 strongandbig wrote: if zb was scum he would have made a much longer post ##vote: hapahauli im down with that iamperfection thinkamajig this post makes me look bad. this would be a good argument for me being scum. scum love to vote for their buddies early. In reality, I just thought iamperfection's argument seemed kinda good about the weirdness of Hapahauli's first vote/minicase/whatever-thing. <big snip> On November 13 2012 21:57 strongandbig wrote: yo marv you're gonna have to edit out that post about the kenpachi rule debears is scum tho in other developments: seriously, I wasn't really thinking too hard about what I posted last night. Believe me or not, I didn't intend to "claim VT" when I made the post in question. I'm going in to work in a couple hours, I'll read over the thread more carefully. However, here's my unfiltered thoughts atm marv: i hate trying to read marv, apparently someone caught him on meta analysis a game or two ago so I'll have to look that up but it's so much easier just radfielding him bh: thinks i'm town therefore my first reaction is to think he's town lol. i like his case on zboson though. hapa: scummiest of the actual good players in the thread atm more reading time here's another post that makes me look bad for a real reason. Randomly throwing suspicion on hapa without providing any reasons. Looks like I'm setting myself up for good distancing in case he flips before me, but doesn't actually create any danger for him. The actual reasoning that led me to write that line was pretty simple. Hapa's posting just wasn't very good. There was the early thing iamperfection caught, and the stupid post of Hapa's attacking me for "not sharing any information about my reads" or whatever (it's above in the section where I call things stupid). And in general, I expect Hapa to be pretty aggressive and frequently wrong, but to do so in a headstrong and confident way with fewer obvious logical flaws. However, I kind of let up on him later when he started emulating his town posting better, like the following post: On November 14 2012 03:56 strongandbig wrote: Show nested quote + On November 14 2012 02:31 Hapahauli wrote: Catching up on my lunch break. Regarding SnB ##Unvote After sleeping on it, I'm starting to agree that his play is too far of a deviation from his normal scum play to be scummy. I don't know what he's thinking, but it's much more reckless of a playstyle than I'd expect of scum SnB. (FWIW, the fact that he's continuing this behavior into today makes me think he's an SK or something. It falls into that "townie but really off" type of play that's common with 3rd party roles.) On November 13 2012 17:42 Clarity_nl wrote: Hapa, this still bothers me. I asked you what you thought about SnB's claim and if you thought it was bad for town, and you answered: On November 13 2012 10:12 Hapahauli wrote: @ Clarity Well in a theoretical sense yes, but you remember how well that worked with Cheesecake in Newbie XXX right? It's really not that significant IMO. You compared this to Cheese's claim from NMM XXX even though the situations are completely different. The only reason Cheese claimed was because he thought only VT's knew the VT flavor. So he was trying to claim without alerting scum. SnB just outright claimed VT. After I explain why it's different, you basically give me the same answer: On November 13 2012 10:25 Hapahauli wrote: On November 13 2012 10:14 Clarity_nl wrote: It's not like he flavor claimed, thinking others didn't know the flavor. How are those situations alike? You don't think it's a weird move for a VT to claim VT day 1? No I don't find it weird. I think it's just a pointless comment that can be made by either alignment. Again, see Mr. Cheesecake's "odd" VT claim time in the Newbie game. Him trusting Z-Bo's claim so up-front is a bit strange, but again, I don't know if it's just bad logic or scum knowing who's who. I haven't seen anything alignment indicative from him yet. The other thing I don't really like is the use of "theoretically yes" and "IMO" Whenever I've seen you post you tend to be direct and with conviction, but not this time. I still believe both situations to be the same - they are both strangely timed VT claims. Cheese's intent to "signal" other townies isn't a significant difference, as both potentially fall into the category of "scum wanting to look less suspicious despite not being suspicious." The situations are not identical by any means, but they're more similar than not. Regardless, I'm not suspicious of SnB anymore so I don't want to dwell on this. Regarding the Z-Boson Case I really disagree with it. The case is a giant anecdote for how Z-Boson's actions could be scummy rather than why they're scummy. ZB is setting up to look good as a wagon starter (since scum don't like to stick their necks out) and appear to contribute to town, but if you read his astonishingly short filter, it's clear he's not actually helping. He's flinging shit at the wall and hoping it sticks. All of this isn't valid at all hours into D1. All of the stuff described above is completely non-alignment indicative in the early game. Z-Boson has been less active than I'm used to seeing him, but again early D1 caveats. No reason to vote him. Regarding iamperfection His sudden flip-flop on Z-Boson is really strange. He goes from strongly trusting Z-Bo's claim early in the game to a vote for really shitty reasons. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=22#434 In his vote post, he first picks a fight with BH - odd considering that he's ultimately going to agree with his read. He puts a lot of stock into one of Z-Bo's early D1 postings and early-game banter (meaningless). He then talks about the "iamperfection rule" and another early D1 wishy-washy post. I wouldn't mind this if it weren't for his discussion about the miller claim: I know i said early on that i thought the miller claim was more of a town tell but well i think zbos actions speak louder. WHAT?!?!? Iamperfection had almost no doubt about Z-Bo's motives, and he's willing to do a complete 180 with the above reasoning. Just take a look at his previous stance, made right after Z-Bo's claim: On November 13 2012 09:45 iamperfection wrote: i guess theirs no reason not to believe zbos right? has to be to risky to do if he was scum right. He immediately trusted Z-Boson without question the second Z-Bo made that claim. Then all of a sudden now he turns around and can doubt the claim he so strongly believed in earlier. It makes no sense to me, and it looks like scum jumping on someone the second they have the reason to. This would be fine if he had a good case, but he just hinges on a couple of early D1 posts and the "iamperfection" rule as opposed to anything substantial. It doesn't help that the rest of his filter reads really artificially confrontational to me. It feels like he's trying to overcompensate for being caught in GSL III for not showing his "bravado" throughout the game. ##Vote iamperfection this is much more like what i expect out of hapahauli, i guess it just took a little while for him to get into character. that said his case is pretty bad for reasons i explained above One last thing: On November 14 2012 03:52 strongandbig wrote: Show nested quote + On November 14 2012 03:27 debears wrote: ....... Ok reasoning to switch from insta town read to scum read.... When I get back to my comp I will relook at it. I didnt come to the same conclusion but look at the reasoning for his town read, it was also terrible. it was a visceral (no eyes) reaction, the first thing to come out of his gut, just like "oh i guess zboson is town" was the first thing to come out of my gut when he posted it. So he changes from a weak, gut-reaction-based townread to a scum read. It's not like he was hard defending zboson or even really thinking about it in a way that we should be super concerned about, he was just pooping ideas out onto the thread. this is where I explain why hapahauli's case was bad. it was the same case, it was still bad. @ S&B Why did you go dig into your own filter the most incriminating posts against you ? Why did you include them with other points regarding the Kenpachi rule and what your play was about during D1 ? Could you explain your motivation for it ? why the hell wouldn't I? so actually, there's a couple of reasons. If I point them out, explain why they're suspicious or incriminating, and also explain where they came from in terms of my mindset and motivations, I can do a better job of persuading people that I'm not scum than I could if someone else pointed them out first and put their own spin on it. That's the "political" aspect of analysis, it's always better to define yourself. That's an argument for doing this in any self-defense, regardless of your alignment. The second reason is that it creates a sort of "intentional vulnerability" in my case. If I go through my filter pointing out and explaining which posts I see as the best reasons to suspect me, they had god damned better be the scummiest posts in my filter. If I do that selectively, and highlight and explain some suspicious posts but ignore others, then my defense goes from being "an honest and open attempt to explain and clarify my filter" to being "misdirection, attempting to get people to focus on the scummy stuff in my filter that I do have a good explanation for, and to get them to ignore the scummy stuff that I don't have a good explanation for." So that's the argument in favor of doing this type of self-analysis when you're a townie under suspicion, and that makes it super risky to do if you're actually scum under suspicion. @ S&B So, if I had noticed these posts as being the most incriminating against you while skimming your filter, and then realized that you had preemptively given your reasons to post these, I should conclude that your self-introspection was honest ? "Big plays" That's risky and ballsy play, regardless of your alignment. I don't understand the town motivation for it... Wouldn't it be better to see if people are actually going to go after you for what could be really incriminating or just silly reasons ? You could tell the difference on who is going to push a mislynch and who is honestly going after you. Here, if you are town, you are just giving ammo to both town and mafia against you. The only good thing is that you already gave your answer for it, but you that something you should do for both alignment. The interactions you had with Hapa, especially when you call him scummiest out of the blue, that doesn't look good. Didn't you reproach the same kind of thing to Clarity in your case against him ? | ||
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 21 2012 22:49 strongandbig wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2012 22:42 Djodref wrote: @ S&B We still have 2 confirmed townies at the moment. When are you going to be available during this mafia night ? in a word: intermittently. It depends on work. Djodref: right now, do you think I'm scum, and why? If it's because I've been more active when I'm under pressure, which seems to be the popular reason these days, can you tell me why that is a characteristic trait of scum and not of town, especially in the light of my town philosophy which I've posted above (and which I've consistently advocated across many games) ? @ S&B Right now, I think you are town. Mainly because we have followed the same approach for this game. I believed that BH was scum and you were suspicious of him before me. I wanted to solve the game with setup extrapolation, and you believed in it too. I was really happy when I saw you posting combinations and combinations of letters because everyone else was not really enthusiastic about it. It's difficult for me to believe that a scum player would participate to this setup extrapolation. At best, we could have get BH right away, or something like 5 confirmed townies and it would have been the end of the game. Regarding the pressure thing, I'm also in the same case. I didn't want to scumhunt in a traditional way because I really believe I didn't need to, and it's really time-consuming with the thread that we have and even boring when you know that a more beautiful and easier solution is available. I was a fool... But still, there are some things like the interaction you had with Hapa, the fact that you are not present for the lynches especially when you were close to be lynched yourself. These things, I'm wary of. So I wanted to take a close look at Clarity lynch first. Didn't have time yet but I really want to consider everything carefully. Even iamp and Kickstart again. But right now, DP is the last scum for me. | ||
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 21 2012 23:04 strongandbig wrote: Show nested quote + On November 21 2012 22:56 Djodref wrote: On November 21 2012 22:40 strongandbig wrote: On November 21 2012 22:34 Djodref wrote: + Show Spoiler + On November 17 2012 06:36 strongandbig wrote: this post took me like more than half an hour to write so yall best actually read it. I go through my filter and look at stuff. On November 13 2012 10:01 strongandbig wrote: if zb was scum he would have made a much longer post ##vote: hapahauli im down with that iamperfection thinkamajig this post makes me look bad. this would be a good argument for me being scum. scum love to vote for their buddies early. In reality, I just thought iamperfection's argument seemed kinda good about the weirdness of Hapahauli's first vote/minicase/whatever-thing. <big snip> On November 13 2012 21:57 strongandbig wrote: yo marv you're gonna have to edit out that post about the kenpachi rule debears is scum tho in other developments: seriously, I wasn't really thinking too hard about what I posted last night. Believe me or not, I didn't intend to "claim VT" when I made the post in question. I'm going in to work in a couple hours, I'll read over the thread more carefully. However, here's my unfiltered thoughts atm marv: i hate trying to read marv, apparently someone caught him on meta analysis a game or two ago so I'll have to look that up but it's so much easier just radfielding him bh: thinks i'm town therefore my first reaction is to think he's town lol. i like his case on zboson though. hapa: scummiest of the actual good players in the thread atm more reading time here's another post that makes me look bad for a real reason. Randomly throwing suspicion on hapa without providing any reasons. Looks like I'm setting myself up for good distancing in case he flips before me, but doesn't actually create any danger for him. The actual reasoning that led me to write that line was pretty simple. Hapa's posting just wasn't very good. There was the early thing iamperfection caught, and the stupid post of Hapa's attacking me for "not sharing any information about my reads" or whatever (it's above in the section where I call things stupid). And in general, I expect Hapa to be pretty aggressive and frequently wrong, but to do so in a headstrong and confident way with fewer obvious logical flaws. However, I kind of let up on him later when he started emulating his town posting better, like the following post: On November 14 2012 03:56 strongandbig wrote: Show nested quote + On November 14 2012 02:31 Hapahauli wrote: Catching up on my lunch break. Regarding SnB ##Unvote After sleeping on it, I'm starting to agree that his play is too far of a deviation from his normal scum play to be scummy. I don't know what he's thinking, but it's much more reckless of a playstyle than I'd expect of scum SnB. (FWIW, the fact that he's continuing this behavior into today makes me think he's an SK or something. It falls into that "townie but really off" type of play that's common with 3rd party roles.) On November 13 2012 17:42 Clarity_nl wrote: Hapa, this still bothers me. I asked you what you thought about SnB's claim and if you thought it was bad for town, and you answered: On November 13 2012 10:12 Hapahauli wrote: @ Clarity Well in a theoretical sense yes, but you remember how well that worked with Cheesecake in Newbie XXX right? It's really not that significant IMO. You compared this to Cheese's claim from NMM XXX even though the situations are completely different. The only reason Cheese claimed was because he thought only VT's knew the VT flavor. So he was trying to claim without alerting scum. SnB just outright claimed VT. After I explain why it's different, you basically give me the same answer: On November 13 2012 10:25 Hapahauli wrote: On November 13 2012 10:14 Clarity_nl wrote: It's not like he flavor claimed, thinking others didn't know the flavor. How are those situations alike? You don't think it's a weird move for a VT to claim VT day 1? No I don't find it weird. I think it's just a pointless comment that can be made by either alignment. Again, see Mr. Cheesecake's "odd" VT claim time in the Newbie game. Him trusting Z-Bo's claim so up-front is a bit strange, but again, I don't know if it's just bad logic or scum knowing who's who. I haven't seen anything alignment indicative from him yet. The other thing I don't really like is the use of "theoretically yes" and "IMO" Whenever I've seen you post you tend to be direct and with conviction, but not this time. I still believe both situations to be the same - they are both strangely timed VT claims. Cheese's intent to "signal" other townies isn't a significant difference, as both potentially fall into the category of "scum wanting to look less suspicious despite not being suspicious." The situations are not identical by any means, but they're more similar than not. Regardless, I'm not suspicious of SnB anymore so I don't want to dwell on this. Regarding the Z-Boson Case I really disagree with it. The case is a giant anecdote for how Z-Boson's actions could be scummy rather than why they're scummy. ZB is setting up to look good as a wagon starter (since scum don't like to stick their necks out) and appear to contribute to town, but if you read his astonishingly short filter, it's clear he's not actually helping. He's flinging shit at the wall and hoping it sticks. All of this isn't valid at all hours into D1. All of the stuff described above is completely non-alignment indicative in the early game. Z-Boson has been less active than I'm used to seeing him, but again early D1 caveats. No reason to vote him. Regarding iamperfection His sudden flip-flop on Z-Boson is really strange. He goes from strongly trusting Z-Bo's claim early in the game to a vote for really shitty reasons. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=22#434 In his vote post, he first picks a fight with BH - odd considering that he's ultimately going to agree with his read. He puts a lot of stock into one of Z-Bo's early D1 postings and early-game banter (meaningless). He then talks about the "iamperfection rule" and another early D1 wishy-washy post. I wouldn't mind this if it weren't for his discussion about the miller claim: I know i said early on that i thought the miller claim was more of a town tell but well i think zbos actions speak louder. WHAT?!?!? Iamperfection had almost no doubt about Z-Bo's motives, and he's willing to do a complete 180 with the above reasoning. Just take a look at his previous stance, made right after Z-Bo's claim: On November 13 2012 09:45 iamperfection wrote: i guess theirs no reason not to believe zbos right? has to be to risky to do if he was scum right. He immediately trusted Z-Boson without question the second Z-Bo made that claim. Then all of a sudden now he turns around and can doubt the claim he so strongly believed in earlier. It makes no sense to me, and it looks like scum jumping on someone the second they have the reason to. This would be fine if he had a good case, but he just hinges on a couple of early D1 posts and the "iamperfection" rule as opposed to anything substantial. It doesn't help that the rest of his filter reads really artificially confrontational to me. It feels like he's trying to overcompensate for being caught in GSL III for not showing his "bravado" throughout the game. ##Vote iamperfection this is much more like what i expect out of hapahauli, i guess it just took a little while for him to get into character. that said his case is pretty bad for reasons i explained above One last thing: On November 14 2012 03:52 strongandbig wrote: Show nested quote + On November 14 2012 03:27 debears wrote: ....... Ok reasoning to switch from insta town read to scum read.... When I get back to my comp I will relook at it. I didnt come to the same conclusion but look at the reasoning for his town read, it was also terrible. it was a visceral (no eyes) reaction, the first thing to come out of his gut, just like "oh i guess zboson is town" was the first thing to come out of my gut when he posted it. So he changes from a weak, gut-reaction-based townread to a scum read. It's not like he was hard defending zboson or even really thinking about it in a way that we should be super concerned about, he was just pooping ideas out onto the thread. this is where I explain why hapahauli's case was bad. it was the same case, it was still bad. @ S&B Why did you go dig into your own filter the most incriminating posts against you ? Why did you include them with other points regarding the Kenpachi rule and what your play was about during D1 ? Could you explain your motivation for it ? why the hell wouldn't I? so actually, there's a couple of reasons. If I point them out, explain why they're suspicious or incriminating, and also explain where they came from in terms of my mindset and motivations, I can do a better job of persuading people that I'm not scum than I could if someone else pointed them out first and put their own spin on it. That's the "political" aspect of analysis, it's always better to define yourself. That's an argument for doing this in any self-defense, regardless of your alignment. The second reason is that it creates a sort of "intentional vulnerability" in my case. If I go through my filter pointing out and explaining which posts I see as the best reasons to suspect me, they had god damned better be the scummiest posts in my filter. If I do that selectively, and highlight and explain some suspicious posts but ignore others, then my defense goes from being "an honest and open attempt to explain and clarify my filter" to being "misdirection, attempting to get people to focus on the scummy stuff in my filter that I do have a good explanation for, and to get them to ignore the scummy stuff that I don't have a good explanation for." So that's the argument in favor of doing this type of self-analysis when you're a townie under suspicion, and that makes it super risky to do if you're actually scum under suspicion. @ S&B So, if I had noticed these posts as being the most incriminating against you while skimming your filter, and then realized that you had preemptively given your reasons to post these, I should conclude that your self-introspection was honest ? "Big plays" That's risky and ballsy play, regardless of your alignment. I don't understand the town motivation for it... Wouldn't it be better to see if people are actually going to go after you for what could be really incriminating or just silly reasons ? You could tell the difference on who is going to push a mislynch and who is honestly going after you. Here, if you are town, you are just giving ammo to both town and mafia against you. The only good thing is that you already gave your answer for it, but you that something you should do for both alignment. The interactions you had with Hapa, especially when you call him scummiest out of the blue, that doesn't look good. Didn't you reproach the same kind of thing to Clarity in your case against him ? my case on clarity wasn't just "that he was posting fluff" or "that he wasn't giving good reasons," it was that in his filter I got a consistent overall impression that he was doing things which would make him look townie without actually helping the town. It was based on my perception that he was being deceptive. Clearly, since he flipped town, I was wrong. But I don't think my case on him applies to me. It's true that I didn't actually help the town much during the first day, although as I explained, I think I was doing more than purely trolling (at least, in terms of my thought process). But I definitely wasn't trying to create a town-looking thread persona or deceive people into thinking that I was town. @ S&B I wanted to talk about the interactions with Hapa especially. I'll look it up myself but I don't remember if you were presenting this as a main point against him or not... | ||
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 21 2012 22:47 strongandbig wrote: So in light of my recently deciding to live, let me ask a framing question Does it look to anyone else like DP and Djo are setting up for an endgame 1v1? I mean, like they're assuming I'll get lynched and then they'll have to argue which of the two of them is the last lynch? I suppose this is possible if the two of them are both townies who have town reads on me. But it also makes sense for scum to be doing right now, since he'll presumably have to face a M/LYLO with iamperfection and/or kickstarter who both have really good town cred right now. So how do we decide if it's "they're both townies who have town reads on me" versus "one of them is a townie with a town read on me, and one of them is scum"? Personally, I would put a lot of weight on the fact that djodref has been saying I'm one of his top scum reads for pretty much the entire game, but now he seems to be assuming that he needs to deal with a 1v1 vs darthpunk at L/MYLO. @ S&B Regarding DP, I might have some confirmation bias against him, but his case against me was full of confirmation bias and twisting some of my statements (i.e. the Kickstart part), so it doesn't hold, at the exception of the utter lack of scumhunting in my tread, which I recognize. He is also jumping at everything I post so I guess he really wants mislynch me as soon as possible, regardless of his alignment, but I take this more as a scum tell than a town tell. | ||
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 21 2012 22:47 strongandbig wrote: So in light of my recently deciding to live, let me ask a framing question Does it look to anyone else like DP and Djo are setting up for an endgame 1v1? I mean, like they're assuming I'll get lynched and then they'll have to argue which of the two of them is the last lynch? I suppose this is possible if the two of them are both townies who have town reads on me. But it also makes sense for scum to be doing right now, since he'll presumably have to face a M/LYLO with iamperfection and/or kickstarter who both have really good town cred right now. So how do we decide if it's "they're both townies who have town reads on me" versus "one of them is a townie with a town read on me, and one of them is scum"? Personally, I would put a lot of weight on the fact that djodref has been saying I'm one of his top scum reads for pretty much the entire game, but now he seems to be assuming that he needs to deal with a 1v1 vs darthpunk at L/MYLO. The reason why I assuming a L/MYLO with DP is because I don't think that you are going to flip scum, DP has more chances than you do, but I don't see how I can convince everybody else, especially Kickstart and Hopeless, that you are not tomorrow lynch. Do you honestly think that we could change Kickstart disposition at your regard ? | ||
Djodref
France3332 Posts
Why I think that S&B is town My first reason is that I think that the last scum is Darthpunk. I realized that it was likely to be the case thanks to this post from Clarity + Show Spoiler + On November 20 2012 22:58 Clarity_nl wrote: Darth, this isn't snb's meta for town either. All his contributions are very timed with when he's in the spotlight. All that leaves is your gut. Scummy about your current behavior is sudden emotional involvement in the game, where you showed none before, you have a scum read on me and djo. I'm town and I have a townread on djo. The fact that you think snb is town. This is all a smart way to go about things as scum. As snb will likely be lynched tomorrow if not today, so it behooves scum to keep him alive if possible. Hopeless is confirmed, bh is confirmed, iamp is town, kickstart is town, djo is neutral, you are neutral You look scummier than djo, currently, because your reads have been the polar opposite of mine all game. Like I said, I'm focusing on getting snb lynched today and I will do my research in the nightcycle. So that's all I got. S&B is starting to get wary of BH during D1, and his reasons stand correct in my opinion, he then proceeds to tunnel BH and uses the setup extrapolation to confound him definitively. These things, I did them as town, and I believe that he did them as town as well. I've realized that he gave himself what was really incriminating in his posts during D1 by himself in this post. I don't see a mafia player playing like S&B during D1... you should start to get lazy and trolly later if you start to fall apart. But you don't do that from the fucking beginning. What is really suspicious is his reference to Hapa as the "scummiest player" without pursuing him. His few interactions with him don't look good as well. But he preemptively posts a defense against this in this gigantic post here + Show Spoiler + On November 17 2012 06:36 strongandbig wrote: this post took me like more than half an hour to write so yall best actually read it. I go through my filter and look at stuff. Show nested quote + On November 13 2012 10:01 strongandbig wrote: if zb was scum he would have made a much longer post ##vote: hapahauli im down with that iamperfection thinkamajig this post makes me look bad. this would be a good argument for me being scum. scum love to vote for their buddies early. In reality, I just thought iamperfection's argument seemed kinda good about the weirdness of Hapahauli's first vote/minicase/whatever-thing. Show nested quote + On November 13 2012 10:02 strongandbig wrote: also fuck you zboson i wanted to fakeclaim miller as vt since then people couldn't say "oh he's fakeclaiming miller must mean he's scum" when i fakeclaim miller as scum but now if i did that people would be like "two millers what are the odds" and then probably lynch you so no good on that one Ahhh, the infamous "accidental claim" post. Seriously if you guys think this was a good idea for a scum player to post, you are not very good scum players. I'm not a very good scum player either, but I'm better than that. The post itself contains the entirety of my motivation. There was one time when I fakeclaimed miller as scum (actually I was traitor, but I showed up as scum to detectives), and ever since then I've been looking for an opportunity to fakeclaim miller as town. I want to be able to claim miller more often as scum, but since the odds are so small of any single player ever actually being a miller, I would first have to establish a background of claiming miller as both alignments. I've actually thought a lot about this, there are some good arguments in favor of fakeclaiming miller as town if you have a lot of time to spend on a game and you think you can make your towniness clear through your actions. It would give town a focus of discussion early on day 1 when they're often aimless, and it would remove you from the list of people that DTs need to think about checking, making their lives easier. The reason I post all those thoughts is to give you some idea where I was coming from. I've thought a lot about the "miller" part, so when I saw zboson claim miller, it triggered me to think along those lines again. The "VT" part really didn't come into it at all. I had no idea at first what debears was talking about when he said I'd claimed something. One other thing I did a lot day 1 was to point out what I thought were bad arguments. I like doing this as town for a couple of reasons - mostly that it's fun, but I also think that criticizing bad arguments and trying to get them pushed out of the town discourse is helpful. It avoids people starting to build cases and reads on bad foundations, and it stops people from building up a "position" that they can refer back to later unless they have something that's actually worth saying. Show nested quote + On November 13 2012 10:48 strongandbig wrote: On November 13 2012 10:01 debears wrote: On November 13 2012 09:59 Hapahauli wrote: On November 13 2012 09:50 DarthPunk wrote: On November 13 2012 09:47 Hapahauli wrote: On November 13 2012 09:44 DarthPunk wrote: On November 13 2012 09:41 Z-BosoN wrote: Hello, sirs. First of all I´d like to claim miller. There are two very viable options now, regarding my alignment on this game. I am fakeclaiming as mafia. I am in fact a miller. My claim here would be fairly risky as scum, and as town it makes more sense to claim so as to not waste detective checks on me, but of course this is WIFOM. I hope to show my alignment in this game through brilliant, stellar townie play, and hope town uses this factor and this factor alone when scouting my alignment. The only thing I hope to achieve with this claim is to not be checked by an eventual cop, as that check will be guaranteed to turn red. That being said, I look forward to playing this game. Lot's of familiar faces around, and I am curious to hear more from people I haven't played yet. Regarding DarthPunk, don't worry, if he's scum, I'll figure it out HI ZB <3. Yeah ZB will figure me out If I am scum, and Vice Versa. Hapa will figure marv out and marv will figure everyone out. GG scummers But what if me, ZB, and marv are all scum o_O Then Blazinghand, Debears and I will rip you all a new arsehole. <3 Oh noes! Well fortunately I'm not scum. + Show Spoiler + I think.+ Show Spoiler + *Bowzer laugh*+ Show Spoiler + jk I'm town On November 13 2012 09:55 iamperfection wrote: On November 13 2012 09:52 Hapahauli wrote: On November 13 2012 09:45 iamperfection wrote: i guess theirs no reason not to believe zbos right? has to be to risky to do if he was scum right. Woah woah hold-up. I'm not liking how you're trusting this claim right away. Claiming miller is a pretty much a riskless play here. We don't know how many millers are in the setup, and as far as I'm concerned, the claim is null until Z-Bo proves otherwise. its what i think so whatever. Zbos scum is gone put himself out there like that i dont think so. It's not "so whatever" - I'm pretty skeptical how you're so willing to think Z-Bo is town off what looks to me like a completely null action. Hapa, last time you did that little spoiler trick (GsL III), you were the role that you put in the spoiler. Here, you put bowser. Now why would you put bowser out of all the scum roles? It seems to me like you were actively thinking of bowser, which you shouldn't be if you are town. I would expect you to put a town role in that spoiler this is stupid Here's one example. Show nested quote + On November 13 2012 11:04 strongandbig wrote: On November 13 2012 11:02 Hapahauli wrote: On November 13 2012 11:00 marvellosity wrote: On November 13 2012 10:59 Hapahauli wrote: On November 13 2012 10:56 marvellosity wrote: On November 13 2012 10:55 Hapahauli wrote: Oh goddamnit I got sniped by the "kenpachi rule" apparently, but my post still stands since he had his vote on me at the time of the post I reference. this makes no sense. the post was stupid, and that's irrelevant of your alignment. Why doesn't it make sense? I'm just saying that SnB changed his vote to someone else before I made my vote on him (in which I reference his vote on me). Perhaps an unnecessary clarification, but it should make sense. so what if he had his vote on you? the post he commented on was stupid, what does him having his vote on you have anything to do with that? Because it's strange. He was far too willing to dismiss the argument of someone who was taking his side on an issue. He didn't attempt to explain anything about his reads in that post. lol i didnt attempt to explain anything about my reads in a post that consisted entirely of "this is stupid" am i explaining my reads in this post bro? Here's another example. Show nested quote + On November 14 2012 03:53 strongandbig wrote: On November 14 2012 01:01 Blazinghand wrote: Marv uf you think Im scum vote me if nog stop beig a babu and vot ZB oh yeah I meant to quote this post that's some great logic right there - vote for me or vote with me. normally i'd find that super scummy but coming from bh it's only mildly scummy There's another one. Show nested quote + On November 14 2012 22:57 strongandbig wrote: On November 14 2012 14:46 debears wrote: On iamp Alright guys, I really need someone to give me a good answer on this question, which everyone has failed to do Why would town iamp 1) Switch his vote, agreeing with the case of someone he thought was scummy 30 minutes earlier after 1 case? you idiot I already explained this TL uses military time it was 12 hours and 30 minutes And again. This one I had to do twice. There's a reason why it's important to tell people when their arguments are bad. As well as fun. Show nested quote + On November 14 2012 22:43 strongandbig wrote: On November 14 2012 11:21 thrawn2112 wrote: I wanna lynch darthpunk. I remember his town play as somewhat aggressive and stubborn, and what I'm seeing from him in this game is completely different from that impression. I still think the whole snb 4 votes early on thing was a little silly and probably had scum behind it. I can get behind this part (bolding by me) On November 13 2012 15:56 DarthPunk wrote: I am just throwing my vote around trying to see what's up. I think I explained both my votes on him adequately maybe you disagree with the reasons and that is fine. The reason I unvoted S&B the first time was that I voted for Clarity for what I perceived to be an easy jump onto an easy wagon. He gave his explanation, I unvoted and then I re-voted S&B. You unvoted snb, who you originally voted for because of a dumb reason, in order to vote for clarity who had voted for snb because of a dumb reason? man though when will people start to realize - "you were inconsistent" is not sufficient to establish that someone is scum. You either have to show that their inconsistency has a scum motivation or you have to show that from a particular player, being inconsistent is a scum tell based on their meta. Townies change their mind too! Just saying "scum like to be inconsistent" is not sufficient! Scum motivations for being inconsistent are things like (-) going along with whatever the thread sentiment is at the time (-) buddying whoever has thread control (-) appearing to contribute without having to take strong positions (-) switching off of scum buddies or onto strong townies when a bandwagon goes further than they expected You can't just say "lol an inconsistency! Scum!" You have to do quite a bit more work than that. On November 13 2012 15:56 DarthPunk wrote:I cannot find the townie reasoning behind several things S&B has posted thus far. I cannot reconcile using WIFOM about his scum game as townie behaviour and I do not buy the too scummy to be scum shit. I am far from certain about him. But if he is town I want him to shape up. I don;t like using FoS's anymore so a vote it is. Specifically, this is what i'm talking about with dp's tone. This... On November 13 2012 15:56 DarthPunk wrote:@blazinghand. Guess I am bad. ...is not what I expect from dp. I expect him to be argumentative and to challenge anyone who accuses him of being wrong. I don't like his votes/unvotes for snb or the explanations for the votes. His last voting action was an unvote, and the next 8 posts contain mainly fluff and jokes, not much information that's pertinent to the thread. this is better - at least it's actually a real argument for him being scum. It's fundamentally a meta case, and therefore it would be better with quotes from other games by darthpunk or at least a guide for what other people should look for in his filter in specific games of his, but darthpunk is usually kind of a character so the case is easier to make here. Summary: He took the easy vote on snb and was wishy washy about it (voting then unvoting then voting then unvoting) because he knows the vote looks bad. After voting the first time, he unvoted then challenged clarity for doing the exact same thing that dp himself did (hasty bandwagon voting for snb) and then he unvoted for a final time and his filter after that point contains no scumhunting or any of his reads/thoughts. ##Vote: Darthpunk The other people that voted for snb during that time were hapa, clarity, and boson. With boson... the miller claim didn't seem to come at the right time to be a scum fakeclaim. I'd expect fake claims to come along much later after everyone has been given a chance to post/claim. Hapa, I'm wary of. BH made a comment along the lines of "whoever voted for snb is bad or scum," and hapa is definitely not bad. But he as well as clarity continued giving reads and interacting with the thread after the snb stuff, while dp has been wishywashy with his vote and not talked about much of anything else. The snb bandwagon grew so quickly that I think it's very likely that there were scum behind it, and dp looks scummiest out of all of them. There was his original voting/unvoting, not following through with any reads afterwards and having a fluffy filter, and being extremely peaceful and not willing to get in fights. That's the exact opposite of town dp. Bolding by me - these are the central points of this case. This one was sort of an extreme example, because I actually explained why the argument was stupid and bad. It takes a lot of the fun out if I have to explain it. Next thing to explain: the whole Kenpachi rule thing. Show nested quote + On November 13 2012 10:53 strongandbig wrote: ummmm so let's vote debears kenpachi rule ##unvote: hapahauli ##vote: debears actually srs this time btw Show nested quote + On November 13 2012 21:57 strongandbig wrote: yo marv you're gonna have to edit out that post about the kenpachi rule debears is scum tho in other developments: seriously, I wasn't really thinking too hard about what I posted last night. Believe me or not, I didn't intend to "claim VT" when I made the post in question. I'm going in to work in a couple hours, I'll read over the thread more carefully. However, here's my unfiltered thoughts atm marv: i hate trying to read marv, apparently someone caught him on meta analysis a game or two ago so I'll have to look that up but it's so much easier just radfielding him bh: thinks i'm town therefore my first reaction is to think he's town lol. i like his case on zboson though. hapa: scummiest of the actual good players in the thread atm more reading time Show nested quote + On November 13 2012 22:18 strongandbig wrote: but tbh marv the kenpachi rule has plenty of substance behind it and you know it i just don't like explaining it because once you explain it it stops working.... T_T So I'm gonna say this and I'm gonna say it just once. And I'll probably come back and edit it out after this game is over. Here's how the Kenpachi rule works: Someone claiming VT for no apparent reason attracts scum like a porch light attracts moths. This is for a very good reason. It's exactly the kind of thing that scum players love to attack. Scum players make cases against scummy behavior. They try and find scummy behavior, not scum, and the random unnecessary VT claim is classic "scummy behavior". It doesn't make sense and doesn't help town in the least, but it also doesn't push any scum agenda. (Scum players, especially new ones, often don't like to attack things that actually do help the scum team push their agenda, either because they want to let it keep getting pushed or because they're afraid of being called out for doing similar things themselves). That's one of the key things about the random VT claim - it doesn't actually hurt town in any way. If you think about it, it really doesn't reveal anything about the alignment of the player who makes the claim, since it's almost always optimal play for anyone in any position to claim VT. Actual VTs don't want to get killed by town for fakeclaiming if they claim blue and get found out; blues want to avoid getting roleblocked; and scum don't want to have to back up a blue claim with actions later on in the game. So you learn nothing from the VT claim. It doesn't distract town from actual scumhunting, because there's really very little to be said about it. But it's such a tempting target for scum! It's easy to attack because it's both illogical and unusual. Plus the people doing it are often easy targets, because they will often do other things that don't make sense. So you ask, why wouldn't that be a tempting target for town as well? You have to think about the different motivations between scum and townies. Townies don't just want to point out when someone does something scummy, they want to actually advance their reads, discuss things in a way which creates a productive town atmosphere, etcetera. But scum have the additional motivation of wanting things that they can safely attack or take strong positions on. They get tricked into attacking the random VT claim because it seems like a safe thing for them to attack - there's little chance of the position coming back to bite them later on, because neither they nor their teammates are likely to randomly claim VT, and because "random VT claims are scummy" is a position that is not likely to interact much with the other positions scum has to take throughout the game. So, there's a much stronger motivation for scum to attack a random VT claim than there is for town to do so. Therefore, people who attack a random VT claim are more likely to be scum than an average player. That's the essence of the Kenpachi rule. The way Marv cited it - the first person to attack the random VT claim is always scum - it's obviously stupid. No rule like that holds true in every case, and there's no reason why the first person or the second person or whatever to do something is more likely to be scum. However, when I kept talking about the Kenpachi rule, I was assuming that Marv understood the reasoning behind it and the proper application of it. Maybe he didn't, and he actually thought it was just some kind of mystical guessing rule. But that's what was going on with me when I kept saying "kenpachi rule" to Marv. Basically, I was hoping he would do my work for my and actually either explain why the Kenpachi rule is a real method, or else use the leads it generated to create actual cases. Show nested quote + On November 13 2012 21:57 strongandbig wrote: yo marv you're gonna have to edit out that post about the kenpachi rule debears is scum tho in other developments: seriously, I wasn't really thinking too hard about what I posted last night. Believe me or not, I didn't intend to "claim VT" when I made the post in question. I'm going in to work in a couple hours, I'll read over the thread more carefully. However, here's my unfiltered thoughts atm marv: i hate trying to read marv, apparently someone caught him on meta analysis a game or two ago so I'll have to look that up but it's so much easier just radfielding him bh: thinks i'm town therefore my first reaction is to think he's town lol. i like his case on zboson though. hapa: scummiest of the actual good players in the thread atm more reading time here's another post that makes me look bad for a real reason. Randomly throwing suspicion on hapa without providing any reasons. Looks like I'm setting myself up for good distancing in case he flips before me, but doesn't actually create any danger for him. The actual reasoning that led me to write that line was pretty simple. Hapa's posting just wasn't very good. There was the early thing iamperfection caught, and the stupid post of Hapa's attacking me for "not sharing any information about my reads" or whatever (it's above in the section where I call things stupid). And in general, I expect Hapa to be pretty aggressive and frequently wrong, but to do so in a headstrong and confident way with fewer obvious logical flaws. However, I kind of let up on him later when he started emulating his town posting better, like the following post: Show nested quote + On November 14 2012 03:56 strongandbig wrote: On November 14 2012 02:31 Hapahauli wrote: Catching up on my lunch break. Regarding SnB ##Unvote After sleeping on it, I'm starting to agree that his play is too far of a deviation from his normal scum play to be scummy. I don't know what he's thinking, but it's much more reckless of a playstyle than I'd expect of scum SnB. (FWIW, the fact that he's continuing this behavior into today makes me think he's an SK or something. It falls into that "townie but really off" type of play that's common with 3rd party roles.) On November 13 2012 17:42 Clarity_nl wrote: Hapa, this still bothers me. I asked you what you thought about SnB's claim and if you thought it was bad for town, and you answered: On November 13 2012 10:12 Hapahauli wrote: @ Clarity Well in a theoretical sense yes, but you remember how well that worked with Cheesecake in Newbie XXX right? It's really not that significant IMO. You compared this to Cheese's claim from NMM XXX even though the situations are completely different. The only reason Cheese claimed was because he thought only VT's knew the VT flavor. So he was trying to claim without alerting scum. SnB just outright claimed VT. After I explain why it's different, you basically give me the same answer: On November 13 2012 10:25 Hapahauli wrote: On November 13 2012 10:14 Clarity_nl wrote: It's not like he flavor claimed, thinking others didn't know the flavor. How are those situations alike? You don't think it's a weird move for a VT to claim VT day 1? No I don't find it weird. I think it's just a pointless comment that can be made by either alignment. Again, see Mr. Cheesecake's "odd" VT claim time in the Newbie game. Him trusting Z-Bo's claim so up-front is a bit strange, but again, I don't know if it's just bad logic or scum knowing who's who. I haven't seen anything alignment indicative from him yet. The other thing I don't really like is the use of "theoretically yes" and "IMO" Whenever I've seen you post you tend to be direct and with conviction, but not this time. I still believe both situations to be the same - they are both strangely timed VT claims. Cheese's intent to "signal" other townies isn't a significant difference, as both potentially fall into the category of "scum wanting to look less suspicious despite not being suspicious." The situations are not identical by any means, but they're more similar than not. Regardless, I'm not suspicious of SnB anymore so I don't want to dwell on this. Regarding the Z-Boson Case I really disagree with it. The case is a giant anecdote for how Z-Boson's actions could be scummy rather than why they're scummy. ZB is setting up to look good as a wagon starter (since scum don't like to stick their necks out) and appear to contribute to town, but if you read his astonishingly short filter, it's clear he's not actually helping. He's flinging shit at the wall and hoping it sticks. All of this isn't valid at all hours into D1. All of the stuff described above is completely non-alignment indicative in the early game. Z-Boson has been less active than I'm used to seeing him, but again early D1 caveats. No reason to vote him. Regarding iamperfection His sudden flip-flop on Z-Boson is really strange. He goes from strongly trusting Z-Bo's claim early in the game to a vote for really shitty reasons. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=22#434 In his vote post, he first picks a fight with BH - odd considering that he's ultimately going to agree with his read. He puts a lot of stock into one of Z-Bo's early D1 postings and early-game banter (meaningless). He then talks about the "iamperfection rule" and another early D1 wishy-washy post. I wouldn't mind this if it weren't for his discussion about the miller claim: I know i said early on that i thought the miller claim was more of a town tell but well i think zbos actions speak louder. WHAT?!?!? Iamperfection had almost no doubt about Z-Bo's motives, and he's willing to do a complete 180 with the above reasoning. Just take a look at his previous stance, made right after Z-Bo's claim: On November 13 2012 09:45 iamperfection wrote: i guess theirs no reason not to believe zbos right? has to be to risky to do if he was scum right. He immediately trusted Z-Boson without question the second Z-Bo made that claim. Then all of a sudden now he turns around and can doubt the claim he so strongly believed in earlier. It makes no sense to me, and it looks like scum jumping on someone the second they have the reason to. This would be fine if he had a good case, but he just hinges on a couple of early D1 posts and the "iamperfection" rule as opposed to anything substantial. It doesn't help that the rest of his filter reads really artificially confrontational to me. It feels like he's trying to overcompensate for being caught in GSL III for not showing his "bravado" throughout the game. ##Vote iamperfection this is much more like what i expect out of hapahauli, i guess it just took a little while for him to get into character. that said his case is pretty bad for reasons i explained above One last thing: Show nested quote + On November 14 2012 03:52 strongandbig wrote: On November 14 2012 03:27 debears wrote: ....... Ok reasoning to switch from insta town read to scum read.... When I get back to my comp I will relook at it. I didnt come to the same conclusion but look at the reasoning for his town read, it was also terrible. it was a visceral (no eyes) reaction, the first thing to come out of his gut, just like "oh i guess zboson is town" was the first thing to come out of my gut when he posted it. So he changes from a weak, gut-reaction-based townread to a scum read. It's not like he was hard defending zboson or even really thinking about it in a way that we should be super concerned about, he was just pooping ideas out onto the thread. this is where I explain why hapahauli's case was bad. it was the same case, it was still bad. One other thing is that he doesn't lynch Z-Bo to save himself. If he didn't care that much as scum, he would have conceded on ages imho. I liked his setup extrapolation but I didn't like how he stayed with his vote parked on BH when it was clear that the setup was MDVCCTT after the death of debears. But that was just personal Regarding Clarity lynch, I need to look at it again. I didn't like his case so much at the time. | ||
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On November 22 2012 09:12 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 22 2012 05:27 iamperfection wrote: same question to you dp what are your reasons now i dont feel like digging through your filter to figure it out I think he is town for pretty much the exact reason I think you are town. Meta. Some modicum of scumhunting. Meta. The only thing you have over him is that you were pretty heavily involved in the hapa lynch. <3 That being said I have had a town read on S&B for a LONG time. I think Djo only just admitted he had one on him. He had a vote parked on him for a LONG time. Djo is the last scum. I'm so jealous.. I didn't get my meta case :s | ||
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GG BH... | ||
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On November 22 2012 11:52 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 22 2012 11:49 Kickstart wrote: If djo was jked would he have been able to kill bh? Yes. Because Scum RB takes priority. He get's roleblocked first and then can't jail. That is why when he jailed me and he was roleblocked I recieed no notification. He jailed Djo because he thought he was scum and if he was not roleblocked it would have prevented a nightkill. As much as it pains me, I second this post. | ||
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On November 22 2012 11:49 Kickstart wrote: If djo was jked would he have been able to kill bh? @ Kickstart Did you change your view of S&B ? What do you think of his 2 long posts during D2 ? What do you think of my defense of him ? | ||
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If you guys still want to lynch S&B, please just do it tomorrow, but this is not going to happen, because the game is going to end today when DP dies. ##Vote DarthPunk | ||
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On November 22 2012 11:42 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 22 2012 11:09 Djodref wrote: On November 22 2012 09:12 DarthPunk wrote: On November 22 2012 05:27 iamperfection wrote: same question to you dp what are your reasons now i dont feel like digging through your filter to figure it out I think he is town for pretty much the exact reason I think you are town. Meta. Some modicum of scumhunting. Meta. The only thing you have over him is that you were pretty heavily involved in the hapa lynch. <3 That being said I have had a town read on S&B for a LONG time. I think Djo only just admitted he had one on him. He had a vote parked on him for a LONG time. Djo is the last scum. I'm so jealous.. I didn't get my meta case :s I don't need Meta to know you are scum. Yet, that's what you mainly used in your cases against Z-Bo, that's what you use to decide that S&B is town. The reason why there is no meta case against me, it's because you cannot write one, because I'm town and you know it. | ||
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On November 22 2012 12:27 iamperfection wrote: Show nested quote + On November 22 2012 12:22 Djodref wrote: I'm up for a Darthpunk lynch today ! If you guys still want to lynch S&B, please just do it tomorrow, but this is not going to happen, because the game is going to end today when DP dies. ##Vote DarthPunk stfu and listen to the perfect one. Have you seriously read the case I made against DP ? Didn't you see how much biased was the case he made against me ? Do you think honestly that we are both town and yelling at each other while being wrong about S&B ? DarthPunk is scum and his plan is to get rid of me first then get the easy S&B mislynch at MYLO or LYLO, that's why his opinion on S&B being town and me being scum is so strong since the time he came back to the thread after I raised some doubts about him. | ||
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On November 22 2012 12:29 iamperfection wrote: Show nested quote + On November 22 2012 12:22 Djodref wrote: I'm up for a Darthpunk lynch today ! If you guys still want to lynch S&B, please just do it tomorrow, but this is not going to happen, because the game is going to end today when DP dies. ##Vote DarthPunk also that was scummy as shit it looks like your just trying to beg for your survival as long as possible and i dont like how both of you seem so certain the other one is the final scum. Yeah, it's a good point and that's why you have to understand that S&B is more likely to be town than DarthPunk. | ||
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So, as long as I'm alive, I'm going to push for a DP lynch ! I'm not voting S&B and I'm strongly opposed to it, we have to lynch DP today ! | ||
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On November 22 2012 12:47 DarthPunk wrote: The correct play is to lynch S&B today though. As much as it pains me to say it, and as much as I doubt he will flip red. ##Unvote ##Vote:S&B I am listening to players whom I respect and have often been right where I have been wrong. Why would it be the correct play ? Why don't you try to convince the other town members that he is town and that I'm scum ? | ||
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On November 22 2012 13:02 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 22 2012 12:49 Djodref wrote: On November 22 2012 12:47 DarthPunk wrote: The correct play is to lynch S&B today though. As much as it pains me to say it, and as much as I doubt he will flip red. ##Unvote ##Vote:S&B I am listening to players whom I respect and have often been right where I have been wrong. Why would it be the correct play ? Why don't you try to convince the other town members that he is town and that I'm scum ? Because, as you say he is an easy mislynch at mylo.Both Marv and Blazinghand told us to lynch him and they are much better players than me. I am not so arrogant to think that I cannot be wrong in my read of him ESPECIALLY when that read is in direct conflict with much better players than myself. Also this ruins any plans you had of an easy S&B mislynch at MYLO which makes me happy if he is in fact town and you are scum like I think. I don't trust the opinions of dead people. That's the lamest excuse to justify a lynch. Marv died after N1 and he missed a big part of this game. BH might be a better player than you but his play was far from stellar during this game. And I know you are a very capable player, especially when it's a matter of pulling off solo victory as mafia. | ||
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On November 22 2012 13:37 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 22 2012 13:32 Hopeless1der wrote: you quoted him talking to marv, perfect one. We didn't crack the setup until Z-Bo's flip. Even then It could have been a 5T setup with SK removed. I was worried about it. Now I don't have to be. Tell me if BH had survived to MYLO and say Iamp and Hopeless had been killed without BH dying you wouldn't have been worried. I would have been not be worried at all, I would have voted the other guy without a blink and said GG. Did you download the tool that Keir use to generate this setup ? I recommend you to go read this page : Keirathi PUBLIC discussion about his setup BH was 100% confirmed ! | ||
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On November 22 2012 13:35 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 22 2012 13:29 iamperfection wrote: On November 22 2012 13:26 DarthPunk wrote: On November 22 2012 13:14 iamperfection wrote: On November 16 2012 11:44 DarthPunk wrote: Oh. If there is a DT you should check BH. Why did you suggest this dp you had recently had said this just a bit earlier in the thread On November 16 2012 10:36 DarthPunk wrote: On November 16 2012 10:32 marvellosity wrote: I am clearly town and a bigger asset (sorry DP) Not offended at all it is true. But you are not clearly town so stop putting that Idea into peoples heads right now. Also. Blazing hand would be fucking insane to fake claim JK day 1 as scum or as fucking SK. he is JK. So Marv as much as you would like to believe he is scum he is not and you are going to have to deal with that and use your 'assets' elsewhere. You came to this conclusion after long spouting off the bh was scum. Then shortly after you suggested a dt check Whats the deal ? Trying to waste the cops investigations ? I was freaking paranoid about a BH fakeclaim. I am actually relieved in a way that he died tonight because it makes things much simpler. I didn't say anything about it earlier because I wanted scum to kill BH like they are supposed to and not have a situation were BH was alive at MYLO and make us all freak out. If he had not died tonight I would probably have said something along the lines of why isn't he dead yet? And started asking the questions that were never asked in my last game. We knew from setup speculation that bh was already the jk... Your paranoia was not justified. no. I read that set-up shit. It was possible that there were only 2 blues and no roleblocker. If there was no roleblocker that would have made a fake JK claim far less risky for scum. Scum BH could have been a goon. Fake claimed RB and lied about being roleblocked for eternity. There were no roleblock claims at all. There was no evidence of a scum RB apart from the word of BH. I was very paranoid about it and I am relieved I no longer have to be. This post shows that
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On November 22 2012 13:59 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 22 2012 13:52 Djodref wrote: On November 22 2012 13:35 DarthPunk wrote: On November 22 2012 13:29 iamperfection wrote: On November 22 2012 13:26 DarthPunk wrote: On November 22 2012 13:14 iamperfection wrote: On November 16 2012 11:44 DarthPunk wrote: Oh. If there is a DT you should check BH. Why did you suggest this dp you had recently had said this just a bit earlier in the thread On November 16 2012 10:36 DarthPunk wrote: On November 16 2012 10:32 marvellosity wrote: I am clearly town and a bigger asset (sorry DP) Not offended at all it is true. But you are not clearly town so stop putting that Idea into peoples heads right now. Also. Blazing hand would be fucking insane to fake claim JK day 1 as scum or as fucking SK. he is JK. So Marv as much as you would like to believe he is scum he is not and you are going to have to deal with that and use your 'assets' elsewhere. You came to this conclusion after long spouting off the bh was scum. Then shortly after you suggested a dt check Whats the deal ? Trying to waste the cops investigations ? I was freaking paranoid about a BH fakeclaim. I am actually relieved in a way that he died tonight because it makes things much simpler. I didn't say anything about it earlier because I wanted scum to kill BH like they are supposed to and not have a situation were BH was alive at MYLO and make us all freak out. If he had not died tonight I would probably have said something along the lines of why isn't he dead yet? And started asking the questions that were never asked in my last game. We knew from setup speculation that bh was already the jk... Your paranoia was not justified. no. I read that set-up shit. It was possible that there were only 2 blues and no roleblocker. If there was no roleblocker that would have made a fake JK claim far less risky for scum. Scum BH could have been a goon. Fake claimed RB and lied about being roleblocked for eternity. There were no roleblock claims at all. There was no evidence of a scum RB apart from the word of BH. I was very paranoid about it and I am relieved I no longer have to be. This post shows that
Get off your damn High horse. After all that set-up speculation that 'solved' everything you posted this Show nested quote + On November 19 2012 02:20 Djodref wrote: @ S&B Would you agree that if our setup is TTTTT and that BH is SK then he automatically loses this game ? I mean, you have a "confirmed" JK going into MYLO or LYLO, getting role blocked every night with no evidence of any other blue role, then this "confirmed" JK has to go. BH at LYLO + no other blue (dead or alive) = automatically lynch BH If people remember this, then we can safely forget the TTTTT setup for the moment Now you are all over me for thinking of something similar and are painting me as scummy for it. You are the biggest hypocrite EVER. Also you are being frivolous with the facts and manipulative. lol debears is dead since. I think it was blue so my equation doesn't count anymore. | ||
Djodref
France3332 Posts
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 22 2012 14:00 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 22 2012 13:43 Djodref wrote: On November 22 2012 13:37 DarthPunk wrote: On November 22 2012 13:32 Hopeless1der wrote: you quoted him talking to marv, perfect one. We didn't crack the setup until Z-Bo's flip. Even then It could have been a 5T setup with SK removed. I was worried about it. Now I don't have to be. Tell me if BH had survived to MYLO and say Iamp and Hopeless had been killed without BH dying you wouldn't have been worried. I would have been not be worried at all, I would have voted the other guy without a blink and said GG. Did you download the tool that Keir use to generate this setup ? I recommend you to go read this page : Keirathi PUBLIC discussion about his setup BH was 100% confirmed ! Which makes THIS a fucking lie. I stated that Hopeless and BH were 100% confirmed in this post after debears death. And this was the natural follow-up of all our setup extrapolation. And I have blamed S&B for his vote against BH early D3 because it should have been the only possible conclusion for both of us at this point. On November 19 2012 12:28 Djodref wrote: Shit guys, are you actually voting me for this ? I admit I didn't explain it well but I don't think its a good reason to vote for someone... On a side note, I think that our setup is MVCCDTT. This is what makes the most sense right now and S&B should know it as well. I'm totally dropping BH now. But if there is another blue, he has to claim noaw imo. On November 19 2012 12:37 Djodref wrote: Anyway, a zero T setup would have less than 1% chance to get rolled at the beginning in a classic C9++ game and the probability is even lower with Keir generator because the one-shot roles are replaced by Ts. I wanted S&B to say this to me. I don't understand how S&B can have his vote on BH right now given the info we have. MVCCDTT makes more sense, in term of probability and in term of play. Your logic is fallacious right now S&B. Explain me how you can conclude that voting BH is still a good move now and I might unvote you. ##Vote S&B On November 19 2012 23:23 Djodref wrote: Show nested quote + On November 19 2012 22:46 strongandbig wrote: On November 19 2012 12:37 Djodref wrote: Anyway, a zero T setup would have less than 1% chance to get rolled at the beginning in a classic C9++ game and the probability is even lower with Keir generator because the one-shot roles are replaced by Ts. I wanted S&B to say this to me. I don't understand how S&B can have his vote on BH right now given the info we have. MVCCDTT makes more sense, in term of probability and in term of play. Your logic is fallacious right now S&B. Explain me how you can conclude that voting BH is still a good move now and I might unvote you. ##Vote S&B The reason that I'm still voting BH is that I'm pissed off at him for insulting me and therefore I want him to die. If we have no more blue claims then he's pretty much confirmed by the setup possibilities - the blues we already know about mean the setup must at least include MCCV. That's only three letters, and a TTT setup wouldn't include a godfather, so there has to be at least one more letter. So either there is another blue, or we have TTMCCDV and BH is confirmed. Unfortunately. @ S&B Well, these are good reasons for putting your vote on someone but that's not going to happen and we have to play to win. There is no other blue in my opinion. Another Jailkeeper would have counterclaimed BH in ages. A Town RoleBlocker would have blocked someone. Another Vigilante would mean MCCVVVV which is unlikely as hell Another Cop would mean MCCCCVT which is also quite unlikely, without adding the fact that we have no sign of an SK and that another Cop with 2 possible checks would solve us the game right away. There is no other, the time for speculation is over. The setup is MVCCDTT, there is no SK and Hopeless is 100% confirmed Luigi the Vig and Blazinghand is 100% confirmed JailKeeper. And the fact that they are 100% confirmed is great and that's what all this setup speculation gave us. So, yes, it is useful ! You should get your vote off BH's back now... | ||
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 22 2012 13:59 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 22 2012 13:52 Djodref wrote: On November 22 2012 13:35 DarthPunk wrote: On November 22 2012 13:29 iamperfection wrote: On November 22 2012 13:26 DarthPunk wrote: On November 22 2012 13:14 iamperfection wrote: On November 16 2012 11:44 DarthPunk wrote: Oh. If there is a DT you should check BH. Why did you suggest this dp you had recently had said this just a bit earlier in the thread On November 16 2012 10:36 DarthPunk wrote: On November 16 2012 10:32 marvellosity wrote: I am clearly town and a bigger asset (sorry DP) Not offended at all it is true. But you are not clearly town so stop putting that Idea into peoples heads right now. Also. Blazing hand would be fucking insane to fake claim JK day 1 as scum or as fucking SK. he is JK. So Marv as much as you would like to believe he is scum he is not and you are going to have to deal with that and use your 'assets' elsewhere. You came to this conclusion after long spouting off the bh was scum. Then shortly after you suggested a dt check Whats the deal ? Trying to waste the cops investigations ? I was freaking paranoid about a BH fakeclaim. I am actually relieved in a way that he died tonight because it makes things much simpler. I didn't say anything about it earlier because I wanted scum to kill BH like they are supposed to and not have a situation were BH was alive at MYLO and make us all freak out. If he had not died tonight I would probably have said something along the lines of why isn't he dead yet? And started asking the questions that were never asked in my last game. We knew from setup speculation that bh was already the jk... Your paranoia was not justified. no. I read that set-up shit. It was possible that there were only 2 blues and no roleblocker. If there was no roleblocker that would have made a fake JK claim far less risky for scum. Scum BH could have been a goon. Fake claimed RB and lied about being roleblocked for eternity. There were no roleblock claims at all. There was no evidence of a scum RB apart from the word of BH. I was very paranoid about it and I am relieved I no longer have to be. This post shows that
Get off your damn High horse. After all that set-up speculation that 'solved' everything you posted this Show nested quote + On November 19 2012 02:20 Djodref wrote: @ S&B Would you agree that if our setup is TTTTT and that BH is SK then he automatically loses this game ? I mean, you have a "confirmed" JK going into MYLO or LYLO, getting role blocked every night with no evidence of any other blue role, then this "confirmed" JK has to go. BH at LYLO + no other blue (dead or alive) = automatically lynch BH If people remember this, then we can safely forget the TTTTT setup for the moment Now you are all over me for thinking of something similar and are painting me as scummy for it. You are the biggest hypocrite EVER. Also you are being frivolous with the facts and manipulative. @ DarthPunk My post was intended to show that you discarded the following posts in my filter. It means that you are only looking for what is really scummy and not what I have done to actually contribute. I don't understand one single instant how you can be relieved after BH death. Maybe you were afraid that he was going to figure you out ? What really gave us the setup extrapolation after debears death is in the following spoiler + Show Spoiler + On November 19 2012 12:28 Djodref wrote: Shit guys, are you actually voting me for this ? I admit I didn't explain it well but I don't think its a good reason to vote for someone... On a side note, I think that our setup is MVCCDTT. This is what makes the most sense right now and S&B should know it as well. I'm totally dropping BH now. But if there is another blue, he has to claim noaw imo. On November 19 2012 12:37 Djodref wrote: Anyway, a zero T setup would have less than 1% chance to get rolled at the beginning in a classic C9++ game and the probability is even lower with Keir generator because the one-shot roles are replaced by Ts. I wanted S&B to say this to me. I don't understand how S&B can have his vote on BH right now given the info we have. MVCCDTT makes more sense, in term of probability and in term of play. Your logic is fallacious right now S&B. Explain me how you can conclude that voting BH is still a good move now and I might unvote you. ##Vote S&B On November 19 2012 23:23 Djodref wrote: Show nested quote + On November 19 2012 22:46 strongandbig wrote: On November 19 2012 12:37 Djodref wrote: Anyway, a zero T setup would have less than 1% chance to get rolled at the beginning in a classic C9++ game and the probability is even lower with Keir generator because the one-shot roles are replaced by Ts. I wanted S&B to say this to me. I don't understand how S&B can have his vote on BH right now given the info we have. MVCCDTT makes more sense, in term of probability and in term of play. Your logic is fallacious right now S&B. Explain me how you can conclude that voting BH is still a good move now and I might unvote you. ##Vote S&B The reason that I'm still voting BH is that I'm pissed off at him for insulting me and therefore I want him to die. If we have no more blue claims then he's pretty much confirmed by the setup possibilities - the blues we already know about mean the setup must at least include MCCV. That's only three letters, and a TTT setup wouldn't include a godfather, so there has to be at least one more letter. So either there is another blue, or we have TTMCCDV and BH is confirmed. Unfortunately. @ S&B Well, these are good reasons for putting your vote on someone but that's not going to happen and we have to play to win. There is no other blue in my opinion. Another Jailkeeper would have counterclaimed BH in ages. A Town RoleBlocker would have blocked someone. Another Vigilante would mean MCCVVVV which is unlikely as hell Another Cop would mean MCCCCVT which is also quite unlikely, without adding the fact that we have no sign of an SK and that another Cop with 2 possible checks would solve us the game right away. There is no other blue, the time for speculation is over. The setup is MVCCDTT, there is no SK and Hopeless is 100% confirmed Luigi the Vig and Blazinghand is 100% confirmed JailKeeper. And the fact that they are 100% confirmed is great and that's what all this setup speculation gave us. So, yes, it is useful ! You should get your vote off BH's back now... | ||
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 22 2012 14:21 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 22 2012 14:15 Djodref wrote: On November 22 2012 14:00 DarthPunk wrote: On November 22 2012 13:43 Djodref wrote: On November 22 2012 13:37 DarthPunk wrote: On November 22 2012 13:32 Hopeless1der wrote: you quoted him talking to marv, perfect one. We didn't crack the setup until Z-Bo's flip. Even then It could have been a 5T setup with SK removed. I was worried about it. Now I don't have to be. Tell me if BH had survived to MYLO and say Iamp and Hopeless had been killed without BH dying you wouldn't have been worried. I would have been not be worried at all, I would have voted the other guy without a blink and said GG. Did you download the tool that Keir use to generate this setup ? I recommend you to go read this page : Keirathi PUBLIC discussion about his setup BH was 100% confirmed ! Which makes THIS a fucking lie. I stated that Hopeless and BH were 100% confirmed in this post after debears death. And this was the natural follow-up of all our setup extrapolation. And I have blamed S&B for his vote against BH early D3 because it should have been the only possible conclusion for both of us at this point. On November 19 2012 12:28 Djodref wrote: Shit guys, are you actually voting me for this ? I admit I didn't explain it well but I don't think its a good reason to vote for someone... On a side note, I think that our setup is MVCCDTT. This is what makes the most sense right now and S&B should know it as well. I'm totally dropping BH now. But if there is another blue, he has to claim noaw imo. On November 19 2012 12:37 Djodref wrote: Anyway, a zero T setup would have less than 1% chance to get rolled at the beginning in a classic C9++ game and the probability is even lower with Keir generator because the one-shot roles are replaced by Ts. I wanted S&B to say this to me. I don't understand how S&B can have his vote on BH right now given the info we have. MVCCDTT makes more sense, in term of probability and in term of play. Your logic is fallacious right now S&B. Explain me how you can conclude that voting BH is still a good move now and I might unvote you. ##Vote S&B On November 19 2012 23:23 Djodref wrote: On November 19 2012 22:46 strongandbig wrote: On November 19 2012 12:37 Djodref wrote: Anyway, a zero T setup would have less than 1% chance to get rolled at the beginning in a classic C9++ game and the probability is even lower with Keir generator because the one-shot roles are replaced by Ts. I wanted S&B to say this to me. I don't understand how S&B can have his vote on BH right now given the info we have. MVCCDTT makes more sense, in term of probability and in term of play. Your logic is fallacious right now S&B. Explain me how you can conclude that voting BH is still a good move now and I might unvote you. ##Vote S&B The reason that I'm still voting BH is that I'm pissed off at him for insulting me and therefore I want him to die. If we have no more blue claims then he's pretty much confirmed by the setup possibilities - the blues we already know about mean the setup must at least include MCCV. That's only three letters, and a TTT setup wouldn't include a godfather, so there has to be at least one more letter. So either there is another blue, or we have TTMCCDV and BH is confirmed. Unfortunately. @ S&B Well, these are good reasons for putting your vote on someone but that's not going to happen and we have to play to win. There is no other blue in my opinion. Another Jailkeeper would have counterclaimed BH in ages. A Town RoleBlocker would have blocked someone. Another Vigilante would mean MCCVVVV which is unlikely as hell Another Cop would mean MCCCCVT which is also quite unlikely, without adding the fact that we have no sign of an SK and that another Cop with 2 possible checks would solve us the game right away. There is no other, the time for speculation is over. The setup is MVCCDTT, there is no SK and Hopeless is 100% confirmed Luigi the Vig and Blazinghand is 100% confirmed JailKeeper. And the fact that they are 100% confirmed is great and that's what all this setup speculation gave us. So, yes, it is useful ! You should get your vote off BH's back now... All you do is talk about set-up. Because it allows you to act like you are contributing when you are in fact not. Even when this speculation is obsolete you return to it. Every discussion you steer back to set-up. This is blatantly scummy. I'm not talking about the setup here. I'm showing everybody that you called me a liar by twisting the timeline of the events. | ||
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 22 2012 14:33 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 22 2012 14:30 Djodref wrote: On November 22 2012 14:21 DarthPunk wrote: On November 22 2012 14:15 Djodref wrote: On November 22 2012 14:00 DarthPunk wrote: On November 22 2012 13:43 Djodref wrote: On November 22 2012 13:37 DarthPunk wrote: On November 22 2012 13:32 Hopeless1der wrote: you quoted him talking to marv, perfect one. We didn't crack the setup until Z-Bo's flip. Even then It could have been a 5T setup with SK removed. I was worried about it. Now I don't have to be. Tell me if BH had survived to MYLO and say Iamp and Hopeless had been killed without BH dying you wouldn't have been worried. I would have been not be worried at all, I would have voted the other guy without a blink and said GG. Did you download the tool that Keir use to generate this setup ? I recommend you to go read this page : Keirathi PUBLIC discussion about his setup BH was 100% confirmed ! Which makes THIS a fucking lie. I stated that Hopeless and BH were 100% confirmed in this post after debears death. And this was the natural follow-up of all our setup extrapolation. And I have blamed S&B for his vote against BH early D3 because it should have been the only possible conclusion for both of us at this point. On November 19 2012 12:28 Djodref wrote: Shit guys, are you actually voting me for this ? I admit I didn't explain it well but I don't think its a good reason to vote for someone... On a side note, I think that our setup is MVCCDTT. This is what makes the most sense right now and S&B should know it as well. I'm totally dropping BH now. But if there is another blue, he has to claim noaw imo. On November 19 2012 12:37 Djodref wrote: Anyway, a zero T setup would have less than 1% chance to get rolled at the beginning in a classic C9++ game and the probability is even lower with Keir generator because the one-shot roles are replaced by Ts. I wanted S&B to say this to me. I don't understand how S&B can have his vote on BH right now given the info we have. MVCCDTT makes more sense, in term of probability and in term of play. Your logic is fallacious right now S&B. Explain me how you can conclude that voting BH is still a good move now and I might unvote you. ##Vote S&B On November 19 2012 23:23 Djodref wrote: On November 19 2012 22:46 strongandbig wrote: On November 19 2012 12:37 Djodref wrote: Anyway, a zero T setup would have less than 1% chance to get rolled at the beginning in a classic C9++ game and the probability is even lower with Keir generator because the one-shot roles are replaced by Ts. I wanted S&B to say this to me. I don't understand how S&B can have his vote on BH right now given the info we have. MVCCDTT makes more sense, in term of probability and in term of play. Your logic is fallacious right now S&B. Explain me how you can conclude that voting BH is still a good move now and I might unvote you. ##Vote S&B The reason that I'm still voting BH is that I'm pissed off at him for insulting me and therefore I want him to die. If we have no more blue claims then he's pretty much confirmed by the setup possibilities - the blues we already know about mean the setup must at least include MCCV. That's only three letters, and a TTT setup wouldn't include a godfather, so there has to be at least one more letter. So either there is another blue, or we have TTMCCDV and BH is confirmed. Unfortunately. @ S&B Well, these are good reasons for putting your vote on someone but that's not going to happen and we have to play to win. There is no other blue in my opinion. Another Jailkeeper would have counterclaimed BH in ages. A Town RoleBlocker would have blocked someone. Another Vigilante would mean MCCVVVV which is unlikely as hell Another Cop would mean MCCCCVT which is also quite unlikely, without adding the fact that we have no sign of an SK and that another Cop with 2 possible checks would solve us the game right away. There is no other, the time for speculation is over. The setup is MVCCDTT, there is no SK and Hopeless is 100% confirmed Luigi the Vig and Blazinghand is 100% confirmed JailKeeper. And the fact that they are 100% confirmed is great and that's what all this setup speculation gave us. So, yes, it is useful ! You should get your vote off BH's back now... All you do is talk about set-up. Because it allows you to act like you are contributing when you are in fact not. Even when this speculation is obsolete you return to it. Every discussion you steer back to set-up. This is blatantly scummy. I'm not talking about the setup here. I'm showing everybody that you called me a liar by twisting the timeline of the events. I got it wrong. Doesn't make me scum or stop you from being scum. This discussion is done. I hope that this discussion can help people realize that you are the last scum. I understand that you are that obsessed to lynch me because I figured you out. | ||
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 22 2012 14:41 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 22 2012 14:36 Djodref wrote: On November 22 2012 14:33 DarthPunk wrote: On November 22 2012 14:30 Djodref wrote: On November 22 2012 14:21 DarthPunk wrote: On November 22 2012 14:15 Djodref wrote: On November 22 2012 14:00 DarthPunk wrote: On November 22 2012 13:43 Djodref wrote: On November 22 2012 13:37 DarthPunk wrote: On November 22 2012 13:32 Hopeless1der wrote: you quoted him talking to marv, perfect one. We didn't crack the setup until Z-Bo's flip. Even then It could have been a 5T setup with SK removed. I was worried about it. Now I don't have to be. Tell me if BH had survived to MYLO and say Iamp and Hopeless had been killed without BH dying you wouldn't have been worried. I would have been not be worried at all, I would have voted the other guy without a blink and said GG. Did you download the tool that Keir use to generate this setup ? I recommend you to go read this page : Keirathi PUBLIC discussion about his setup BH was 100% confirmed ! Which makes THIS a fucking lie. I stated that Hopeless and BH were 100% confirmed in this post after debears death. And this was the natural follow-up of all our setup extrapolation. And I have blamed S&B for his vote against BH early D3 because it should have been the only possible conclusion for both of us at this point. On November 19 2012 12:28 Djodref wrote: Shit guys, are you actually voting me for this ? I admit I didn't explain it well but I don't think its a good reason to vote for someone... On a side note, I think that our setup is MVCCDTT. This is what makes the most sense right now and S&B should know it as well. I'm totally dropping BH now. But if there is another blue, he has to claim noaw imo. On November 19 2012 12:37 Djodref wrote: Anyway, a zero T setup would have less than 1% chance to get rolled at the beginning in a classic C9++ game and the probability is even lower with Keir generator because the one-shot roles are replaced by Ts. I wanted S&B to say this to me. I don't understand how S&B can have his vote on BH right now given the info we have. MVCCDTT makes more sense, in term of probability and in term of play. Your logic is fallacious right now S&B. Explain me how you can conclude that voting BH is still a good move now and I might unvote you. ##Vote S&B On November 19 2012 23:23 Djodref wrote: On November 19 2012 22:46 strongandbig wrote: On November 19 2012 12:37 Djodref wrote: Anyway, a zero T setup would have less than 1% chance to get rolled at the beginning in a classic C9++ game and the probability is even lower with Keir generator because the one-shot roles are replaced by Ts. I wanted S&B to say this to me. I don't understand how S&B can have his vote on BH right now given the info we have. MVCCDTT makes more sense, in term of probability and in term of play. Your logic is fallacious right now S&B. Explain me how you can conclude that voting BH is still a good move now and I might unvote you. ##Vote S&B The reason that I'm still voting BH is that I'm pissed off at him for insulting me and therefore I want him to die. If we have no more blue claims then he's pretty much confirmed by the setup possibilities - the blues we already know about mean the setup must at least include MCCV. That's only three letters, and a TTT setup wouldn't include a godfather, so there has to be at least one more letter. So either there is another blue, or we have TTMCCDV and BH is confirmed. Unfortunately. @ S&B Well, these are good reasons for putting your vote on someone but that's not going to happen and we have to play to win. There is no other blue in my opinion. Another Jailkeeper would have counterclaimed BH in ages. A Town RoleBlocker would have blocked someone. Another Vigilante would mean MCCVVVV which is unlikely as hell Another Cop would mean MCCCCVT which is also quite unlikely, without adding the fact that we have no sign of an SK and that another Cop with 2 possible checks would solve us the game right away. There is no other, the time for speculation is over. The setup is MVCCDTT, there is no SK and Hopeless is 100% confirmed Luigi the Vig and Blazinghand is 100% confirmed JailKeeper. And the fact that they are 100% confirmed is great and that's what all this setup speculation gave us. So, yes, it is useful ! You should get your vote off BH's back now... All you do is talk about set-up. Because it allows you to act like you are contributing when you are in fact not. Even when this speculation is obsolete you return to it. Every discussion you steer back to set-up. This is blatantly scummy. I'm not talking about the setup here. I'm showing everybody that you called me a liar by twisting the timeline of the events. I got it wrong. Doesn't make me scum or stop you from being scum. This discussion is done. I hope that this discussion can help people realize that you are the last scum. I understand that you are that obsessed to lynch me because I figured you out. How exactly did you figure me out. Because I have a town read on S&B? the same S&B that you were wishy-washy as shit on until called out for your position which was then a town read. Despite parking your vote on him most of the previous cycle? Or is it because I said you have not done any scum hunting (which you haven't) and that you think that is not a good enough reason to lynch you (it is.) Your case on me was AFTER I called you out. Before that you were supposedly building a case on CLARITY. Also I hammered and called out HAPA day one. Your vote was parked uselessly on the Lynch scum was pushing day one. I was building my case on Clarity when I have noticed the post where he said that it would be a smart move for the last scum to keep S&B alive if he was town. So then I've noticed that you were the only one of us with a town read on S&B which you based on meta only. Also, I found the way you overreacted to my early doubts about you startling. That;s when I decided to build a case against you instead. And that case holds... | ||
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 22 2012 14:41 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 22 2012 14:36 Djodref wrote: On November 22 2012 14:33 DarthPunk wrote: On November 22 2012 14:30 Djodref wrote: On November 22 2012 14:21 DarthPunk wrote: On November 22 2012 14:15 Djodref wrote: On November 22 2012 14:00 DarthPunk wrote: On November 22 2012 13:43 Djodref wrote: On November 22 2012 13:37 DarthPunk wrote: On November 22 2012 13:32 Hopeless1der wrote: you quoted him talking to marv, perfect one. We didn't crack the setup until Z-Bo's flip. Even then It could have been a 5T setup with SK removed. I was worried about it. Now I don't have to be. Tell me if BH had survived to MYLO and say Iamp and Hopeless had been killed without BH dying you wouldn't have been worried. I would have been not be worried at all, I would have voted the other guy without a blink and said GG. Did you download the tool that Keir use to generate this setup ? I recommend you to go read this page : Keirathi PUBLIC discussion about his setup BH was 100% confirmed ! Which makes THIS a fucking lie. I stated that Hopeless and BH were 100% confirmed in this post after debears death. And this was the natural follow-up of all our setup extrapolation. And I have blamed S&B for his vote against BH early D3 because it should have been the only possible conclusion for both of us at this point. On November 19 2012 12:28 Djodref wrote: Shit guys, are you actually voting me for this ? I admit I didn't explain it well but I don't think its a good reason to vote for someone... On a side note, I think that our setup is MVCCDTT. This is what makes the most sense right now and S&B should know it as well. I'm totally dropping BH now. But if there is another blue, he has to claim noaw imo. On November 19 2012 12:37 Djodref wrote: Anyway, a zero T setup would have less than 1% chance to get rolled at the beginning in a classic C9++ game and the probability is even lower with Keir generator because the one-shot roles are replaced by Ts. I wanted S&B to say this to me. I don't understand how S&B can have his vote on BH right now given the info we have. MVCCDTT makes more sense, in term of probability and in term of play. Your logic is fallacious right now S&B. Explain me how you can conclude that voting BH is still a good move now and I might unvote you. ##Vote S&B On November 19 2012 23:23 Djodref wrote: On November 19 2012 22:46 strongandbig wrote: On November 19 2012 12:37 Djodref wrote: Anyway, a zero T setup would have less than 1% chance to get rolled at the beginning in a classic C9++ game and the probability is even lower with Keir generator because the one-shot roles are replaced by Ts. I wanted S&B to say this to me. I don't understand how S&B can have his vote on BH right now given the info we have. MVCCDTT makes more sense, in term of probability and in term of play. Your logic is fallacious right now S&B. Explain me how you can conclude that voting BH is still a good move now and I might unvote you. ##Vote S&B The reason that I'm still voting BH is that I'm pissed off at him for insulting me and therefore I want him to die. If we have no more blue claims then he's pretty much confirmed by the setup possibilities - the blues we already know about mean the setup must at least include MCCV. That's only three letters, and a TTT setup wouldn't include a godfather, so there has to be at least one more letter. So either there is another blue, or we have TTMCCDV and BH is confirmed. Unfortunately. @ S&B Well, these are good reasons for putting your vote on someone but that's not going to happen and we have to play to win. There is no other blue in my opinion. Another Jailkeeper would have counterclaimed BH in ages. A Town RoleBlocker would have blocked someone. Another Vigilante would mean MCCVVVV which is unlikely as hell Another Cop would mean MCCCCVT which is also quite unlikely, without adding the fact that we have no sign of an SK and that another Cop with 2 possible checks would solve us the game right away. There is no other, the time for speculation is over. The setup is MVCCDTT, there is no SK and Hopeless is 100% confirmed Luigi the Vig and Blazinghand is 100% confirmed JailKeeper. And the fact that they are 100% confirmed is great and that's what all this setup speculation gave us. So, yes, it is useful ! You should get your vote off BH's back now... All you do is talk about set-up. Because it allows you to act like you are contributing when you are in fact not. Even when this speculation is obsolete you return to it. Every discussion you steer back to set-up. This is blatantly scummy. I'm not talking about the setup here. I'm showing everybody that you called me a liar by twisting the timeline of the events. I got it wrong. Doesn't make me scum or stop you from being scum. This discussion is done. I hope that this discussion can help people realize that you are the last scum. I understand that you are that obsessed to lynch me because I figured you out. How exactly did you figure me out. Because I have a town read on S&B? the same S&B that you were wishy-washy as shit on until called out for your position which was then a town read. Despite parking your vote on him most of the previous cycle? Or is it because I said you have not done any scum hunting (which you haven't) and that you think that is not a good enough reason to lynch you (it is.) Your case on me was AFTER I called you out. Before that you were supposedly building a case on CLARITY. Also I hammered and called out HAPA day one. Your vote was parked uselessly on the Lynch scum was pushing day one. I showed that your vote switch from Z-Bo to Hapa was not natural. You were certainly bussing him or preparing for a bus day 2 because people were getting suspicious of him and Hapa would have been lynched anyway because not night killed by the mafia. | ||
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Bussing D1 exists guys ! | ||
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On November 22 2012 14:54 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 22 2012 14:48 Djodref wrote: On November 22 2012 14:41 DarthPunk wrote: On November 22 2012 14:36 Djodref wrote: On November 22 2012 14:33 DarthPunk wrote: On November 22 2012 14:30 Djodref wrote: On November 22 2012 14:21 DarthPunk wrote: On November 22 2012 14:15 Djodref wrote: On November 22 2012 14:00 DarthPunk wrote: On November 22 2012 13:43 Djodref wrote: [quote] I would have been not be worried at all, I would have voted the other guy without a blink and said GG. Did you download the tool that Keir use to generate this setup ? I recommend you to go read this page : Keirathi PUBLIC discussion about his setup BH was 100% confirmed ! Which makes THIS a fucking lie. I stated that Hopeless and BH were 100% confirmed in this post after debears death. And this was the natural follow-up of all our setup extrapolation. And I have blamed S&B for his vote against BH early D3 because it should have been the only possible conclusion for both of us at this point. On November 19 2012 12:28 Djodref wrote: Shit guys, are you actually voting me for this ? I admit I didn't explain it well but I don't think its a good reason to vote for someone... On a side note, I think that our setup is MVCCDTT. This is what makes the most sense right now and S&B should know it as well. I'm totally dropping BH now. But if there is another blue, he has to claim noaw imo. On November 19 2012 12:37 Djodref wrote: Anyway, a zero T setup would have less than 1% chance to get rolled at the beginning in a classic C9++ game and the probability is even lower with Keir generator because the one-shot roles are replaced by Ts. I wanted S&B to say this to me. I don't understand how S&B can have his vote on BH right now given the info we have. MVCCDTT makes more sense, in term of probability and in term of play. Your logic is fallacious right now S&B. Explain me how you can conclude that voting BH is still a good move now and I might unvote you. ##Vote S&B On November 19 2012 23:23 Djodref wrote: On November 19 2012 22:46 strongandbig wrote: [quote] The reason that I'm still voting BH is that I'm pissed off at him for insulting me and therefore I want him to die. If we have no more blue claims then he's pretty much confirmed by the setup possibilities - the blues we already know about mean the setup must at least include MCCV. That's only three letters, and a TTT setup wouldn't include a godfather, so there has to be at least one more letter. So either there is another blue, or we have TTMCCDV and BH is confirmed. Unfortunately. @ S&B Well, these are good reasons for putting your vote on someone but that's not going to happen and we have to play to win. There is no other blue in my opinion. Another Jailkeeper would have counterclaimed BH in ages. A Town RoleBlocker would have blocked someone. Another Vigilante would mean MCCVVVV which is unlikely as hell Another Cop would mean MCCCCVT which is also quite unlikely, without adding the fact that we have no sign of an SK and that another Cop with 2 possible checks would solve us the game right away. There is no other, the time for speculation is over. The setup is MVCCDTT, there is no SK and Hopeless is 100% confirmed Luigi the Vig and Blazinghand is 100% confirmed JailKeeper. And the fact that they are 100% confirmed is great and that's what all this setup speculation gave us. So, yes, it is useful ! You should get your vote off BH's back now... All you do is talk about set-up. Because it allows you to act like you are contributing when you are in fact not. Even when this speculation is obsolete you return to it. Every discussion you steer back to set-up. This is blatantly scummy. I'm not talking about the setup here. I'm showing everybody that you called me a liar by twisting the timeline of the events. I got it wrong. Doesn't make me scum or stop you from being scum. This discussion is done. I hope that this discussion can help people realize that you are the last scum. I understand that you are that obsessed to lynch me because I figured you out. How exactly did you figure me out. Because I have a town read on S&B? the same S&B that you were wishy-washy as shit on until called out for your position which was then a town read. Despite parking your vote on him most of the previous cycle? Or is it because I said you have not done any scum hunting (which you haven't) and that you think that is not a good enough reason to lynch you (it is.) Your case on me was AFTER I called you out. Before that you were supposedly building a case on CLARITY. Also I hammered and called out HAPA day one. Your vote was parked uselessly on the Lynch scum was pushing day one. I was building my case on Clarity when I have noticed the post where he saidthat it would be a smart move for the last scum to keep S&B alive if he was town. Which you are now doing. Show nested quote + On November 22 2012 14:48 Djodref wrote: So then I've noticed that you were the only one of us with a town read on S&B which you based on meta only. You now have a town read on S&B based on DP is scum. Which is despite you having a vote parked on him fro days and being incredibly wishy-washy about it. Show nested quote + On November 22 2012 14:48 Djodref wrote: Also, I found the way you overreacted to my early doubts about you startling. That;s when I decided to build a case against you instead. And that case holds... Your case was that I lynched ZB and that it was my fault for thinking a miller claim was not identical to a JK claim. (lol wat?) Your case does not 'hold' because it is really good, or Because I am scum. It 'holds' because it is shit and there is nothing to refute and nothing to suggest I am scum. It's not for you to decide if my case holds or not. You should have been able to sympathize with Z-Bo situation. I'm still waiting for everybody comments on my case against DP | ||
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On November 22 2012 14:59 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 22 2012 14:57 Djodref wrote: EBWOP: I also hate the way that you attack me for some actions that I cannot really address because I don't really know why thrawn was having his vote against you. But he had pinned you because your play didn't fit you town meta D1 and he was right about it. I should have trusted thrawn judgement earlier but the problem is that nobody was really looking at you because you were the hammer vote. Bussing D1 exists guys ! So you don't know why he was pushing me but you should have trusted his judgement earlier? I don't trust meta. I think it is only the icing on the cake to perfect case but it shouldn't hold so much value. You have used meta at your advantage a lot in this game and yet you have failed to bring my meta against me. I'd like to emphasize this point. | ||
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On November 22 2012 14:58 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 15 2012 10:43 DarthPunk wrote: On November 15 2012 10:37 iamperfection wrote: On November 15 2012 10:35 DarthPunk wrote: On November 15 2012 10:34 iamperfection wrote: DP DO NOT RUN AWAY IF YOUR TOWN. Give reads on the people voting on you. I just did. more How about this. I was probably not going to be lynched until two of the best town players I know who are very rarely wrong about scum reads lead the most retarded wagon in the world on me which is wrong. So either they are worse than I thought. Can't read me at all or are scum. Hapa is not playing the same as GSL he is playing worse. Hi scum game is townie though so be wary of that. But he is not giving the confident and often correct reads taht he usually gives as town. He is starting up a stupid fucking wagon that he is usually wary of as town. Hapa is like the fucking divine presence of level headedness usually but this band wagon is not it. BH I have never played with before. But he is reading scum into things that should not be read as scummy. SO he might just be worse than I thought. Marv is actually fucking right although rightly confused but seems townie from genuinely wanting to figure shit out rather than leap onto a retarded wagon. Also. How much fucking conviction does BH have in his reads when I am so scummy but then he insta votes for a fucking Coin toss. BH is scum. Because he doesn't give a fuck about the lynch as long as he lynches a townie. Show nested quote + On November 15 2012 10:53 DarthPunk wrote: On November 15 2012 10:50 Hapahauli wrote: ##Unvote Yeah marv's right here - DP's being pretty townie going down. On November 15 2012 10:46 debears wrote: ##Unvote ##Vote Hopeless Plz for the love of god vote hopeless ppl Can we please lynch this guy? Please? ##Vote Debears Scum. YOu just tried to form a band wagon on me for this very thing you are doing right now. You are fucking derailing the fucking lynch and there is no way in hell debears is going to be lynched. Also town hapa would never do this so iam now talking to Scum hapa whom I dislike. Show nested quote + On November 15 2012 10:56 DarthPunk wrote: On November 15 2012 10:52 Hapahauli wrote: On November 15 2012 10:50 Z-BosoN wrote: Also, if anyone is thinking of voting me, it is becasue you are blindly sheeping marv. Fucking read my defense, FUCKING READ WHAT I SAID REGARDING MY META. FUCKING READ WHAT HAPA SAID. It's a case based SOLELY ON META DP is acting VERY differently then when he is scum gettingl ynched. I want to unvote him and vote for hopeless. Also, if I for some godly reason to get lynched. Here are my reads: Hapa: scum scum scum. Gonna go after him day 2 should I live. BH probably scum. I can't fathom his claim AT ALL. Kill him should he be alive in like, day 3. Rest of everybody I'm not sure. Marv is prob town, an arrogant fucking one who can't see the reasonable explanation I've given, but he's pretty much town. Yeah die. "Fucking read what Hapa said" "Hapa; scum scum scum" ##Unvote ##Vote Z-Boson This bussing is so transparent How the fuck is that 'unnatural'? It's not natural because you are using association cases before the flip. Your reason for voting Hapa is that he tries to derail Z-Boson lynch and that he is "obviously bussing" Z-Boson when Z-Boson "obviously plants WIFOM" to protect Hapa for after the lynch. You wanted to lynch Z-Bo and you finally vote in the same direction as him, that's not natural. Moreover, I don't see town DP doing association cases before flip. | ||
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On November 22 2012 15:47 iamperfection wrote: Show nested quote + On November 22 2012 15:00 DarthPunk wrote: This is getting nowhere. I will no longer respond to you. actually you guys will be responding to each other for what might be the next four or so days so you better get used to it. Pray to god S&B is scum if not we are going to be getting real comfy with each other . @ iamp Is this really your conclusion when you see DP and me going after each other throat like this ? So, you are saying that both of us are town and we are both stupid for giving a town read on the last remaining scum ? I would like you to understand first that it is obvious that one of us has to be scum. Then, I would be glad if you could understand that DP has to be today lynch if we ever want to win this game. I'm still waiting for your comments on my case against DP. For reference you can find it in the following spoiler. + Show Spoiler + On November 21 2012 02:26 Djodref wrote: DarthPunk Part I --- Bussing Hapa During D1, DarthPunk has shown interest mainly in the persons of Clarity and Z-Boson. His interactions with Hapa were limited. As a reminder, please find here his famous "last will" post before getting almost lynched. Show nested quote + On November 15 2012 10:34 DarthPunk wrote: I am flipping town. Lynch Z-Bo and clarity. BH and Hapa need to be looked at closely. Marv is 100% town Debears is my second strongest town read. You got this debears. <3 Perfection town. Crossfire town S&B town Hopeless null Everyone I missed. Null and forgettable apparently. Never been mis-lynched before. I blew chunks this game GO town!!! Hapa needs to be looked closely at. DP has mentioned previously that he wouldn't vote for Hapa or marv D1 here + Show Spoiler + On November 13 2012 11:52 DarthPunk wrote: <snip> Yep. I would not. I would not vote day one for Hapa or marv either. Unless there was something super obvious I would not vote for them. But I do not think that would happen because they are all good players and that is why I respect them I suppose. So, Hapa is not a good lynch for today while Z-Bo is. And yet, after "realizing" that Hapa is scum while BH, debears and iamp started to threw their FoS around. We have Show nested quote + On November 15 2012 10:56 DarthPunk wrote: On November 15 2012 10:52 Hapahauli wrote: On November 15 2012 10:50 Z-BosoN wrote: Also, if anyone is thinking of voting me, it is becasue you are blindly sheeping marv. Fucking read my defense, FUCKING READ WHAT I SAID REGARDING MY META. FUCKING READ WHAT HAPA SAID. It's a case based SOLELY ON META DP is acting VERY differently then when he is scum gettingl ynched. I want to unvote him and vote for hopeless. Also, if I for some godly reason to get lynched. Here are my reads: Hapa: scum scum scum. Gonna go after him day 2 should I live. BH probably scum. I can't fathom his claim AT ALL. Kill him should he be alive in like, day 3. Rest of everybody I'm not sure. Marv is prob town, an arrogant fucking one who can't see the reasonable explanation I've given, but he's pretty much town. Yeah die. "Fucking read what Hapa said" "Hapa; scum scum scum" ##Unvote ##Vote Z-Boson This bussing is so transparent Show nested quote + On November 15 2012 10:56 DarthPunk wrote: On November 15 2012 10:55 Z-BosoN wrote: LYNCH HAPAHAULI. LYNCH BLAZINGHAND. when he is alive day 3. marv, hope you learn you are not the fucking god of mafia, and see that meta reads are only worth it if it isn't fucking obvious stylistic proven logical and pre-claimed reasons. WIFOM I don't understand how you can come with the idea that your top scumread is planting WIFOM bombs. I think that his last minute vote was pressed by Hapa in the scumQT. What I find mostly interesting is his reaction afterward. Show nested quote + On November 15 2012 11:25 DarthPunk wrote: <snip> You are far from confiremd ZB and your last 'will' was a WIFOM bomb if I ever saw it. I am calling BH, HAPA, ZB team right now. So basically, BH and ZB have bussed Hapa for sure but -> Show nested quote + On November 15 2012 11:34 DarthPunk wrote: Also I am confirmed town. SO suck it, all of you. Excellent double standards. He is confirmed town because his lynch was pushed by scum and he lynched Hapa but ZB and BH are not at all in the same position, especially ZB here, and have obviously bussed. For your information, he retracts himself afterwards on BH because he certainly doesn't want to push a lynch on a JK. Part II --- The Lynch of Z-BoSon I cannot emphasize enough how stupid Z-BosoN lynch was. I feel very sorry for not having been here in the thread the last week-end but IRL stuff prevails, especially saturday nights. Anyway, I have tried to explain to DP that he was using double standards regarding ZB and BH but I've been called an idiot for it. Here is the post for reference Show nested quote + On November 17 2012 15:29 Djodref wrote: @ DarthPunk Let's look at the two following players Blazinghands
Yet he is the last on your lynch list Z-BosoN
You want to lynch him today The probability for us to have a miller is roughly the same than the probability for us to have a JK. They both couldn't confirm their claims by any actions. Why can you not understand this ? But let's also take a look at the similarities between Z-Bo and DP at that time Z-BoSoN
DP
I don't understand how town DP could not sympathize with Z-BosoN at this point and has no doubts at all about his alignment. I really don't understand how he could not have at least doubts about it. Show nested quote + On November 17 2012 11:21 DarthPunk wrote: On November 17 2012 11:18 Blazinghand wrote: On November 17 2012 11:17 DarthPunk wrote: Here is SCUM Z-Boson from XXIV On August 20 2012 12:25 Z-BosoN wrote: All right guys, some debriefing should take place. I agree that we shouldn't back off during the night. It is crucial we get it right this time. Let's see what we have: YourHarry Extremely weird player. My main theory against him was that he was trying to do a lame bus on thrawn. Granted as thrawn was indeed vigi, this is not the case. However, his posts and comments generally are inconsistent, lack explanations, and keep changing. His posts are a diarrhea of WIFOM that I've decided are only here to confuse us with its vagueness, lack of clarity, and lack of purpose. Observe: I am having second thoughts about Thrawn. First thing that doesn't make sense if Thrawn is scum: If Thrawn is indeed scum then he left that "bread crumb" post so that he can use that as evidence to mislead the town that he is vigilante. But Thrawn denied this post as the "bread crumb" post, and in his initial claim, he never even referenced this post in the first place... Mega power WIFOM. Second thing that I am not sure about is that, claiming vigilante is so dangerous for scum. One weak point in this line of thinking is that Thrawn did ask the mod to confirm that there could be more than one vigilante. I think it is possible that scum Thrawn DID ask the moderator in private prior to asking publicly that there could be more than one vigilante. What is this supposed to implicate? Useless garbage. STILL, whether or not there could be two vigilante... a counter vigilante claim would definitely have made Thrawn look suspicious. Would it not? I am not sure scum would have taken this risk. He keeps babbling, and doesn't make a point. How in anyway is this post helping town? And we keep going: But I am scared to unvote, because I will be the next person to be lynched after Thrawn What is this supposed to mean? Is he a scum that wants us to think this or is he a townie that wants us to think that he is thinking... oh wait, WIFOM. This statement means CRAP. ... and more .... I am not super confident in my scum read. Upon my reading just now, I found Jhyut case's scummy. Sheeping Thrawn's case here, but Jhyut did not care whether I am town or scum - he wanted to lynch me. I thought he was something else, but I guess I was wrong again. HE is also lurking pretty hard, so he may turn out to be scum Crappety crap crap CRAP. He is randomly throwing around suspicions and not committing to anything. This in no conceivable way helps town. My case against Golbat and Darth was based on my scum read on Thrawn. Not sure anymore. Scumslip? How does he suddenly know that thrawn is not scum? Oh, that's right, he decided thrawn isn't scum with his brilliant and well thought-out argument, quoted above. I'm sure we can agree that his posts don't help the town and scream scum. Even though there was strong evidence that thrawn and YH were scum, due to the way they were playing it D1, I am still inclined to think he is scum. This requires much more thought, as we will have to be certain that we lynch a scum in the next day. Jhuyt He is a quiet and lurky player. He mentions possibilities, without compromise, and doesn't take a stance on anything. The more I think of it the more I find that either Shady or Thrawn is scum. But since my basis of suspicion against Thrawn is basically gone I really can't vote for him. I think this post + Show Spoiler + coupled with Thrawn's reason to accuse Arch is enough for me too consider Shady as scum. ##Vote: Shady Sands I have to go for the next couple of hours so I won't be here for the conclusion of the day, see ya later. Bases himself off completely off of someone else's arguments, and announces he will have to leave. He then makes complains about how wishy-washy YourHarry is, says it is urgent that we lynch him, and starts to make shallow arguments on GK: When I looked at the case GK made in this post I got the feeling that you might be scum, but I wasn't sure. When I couple that with your scumslip it makes more sense that he's right and therefore I think you're scum. The benefit of the doubt line was one that I was considering to cut out of the post because it doesn't add anything and I'm pretty sure I misused the expression. I should have said that while I do think you're scum I think that YH's behaviour is way scummier and so much more anti-town that a lynch on him is necessary so that we can have a clearer discussion. But still considering YourHarry's wishy-washyness more scummy. Gets attacked by thrawn, who basically states the same things I'm saying right now, and is defended with weak and contentless posts. He simply doesn't take a solid stance on anyone (except maybe for YH). He's generally much more lurkier and gives off too few to work with. Golbat Beastly Lurker. Joined on the thrawn bandwagon and disappeared. We should have lynched him a long time ago. This makes me understand why lurker policy needs to be so strong. If he was a civilian before, then we would be down a lurking civilian who was not helping at all. Now, however, we cannot afford another misslynch, and have to be more careful. But since he has barely any posts, it will be very hard to determine for sure what he is. goodkarma and DarthPunk I wanted to make sure that I wasn't skipping any details on the non-obvious choices. I've noticed some weird behavior on GK, which I've already mentioned. Since I've already gone through thrawn's filter, I can understand where GK could have found some reason to back off of thrawn. I don't think he is scum, as I can't think of why a scum would go ahead and say I'M SURE HES GUILTY, to backing off entirely. Scum generally take hesitant postures that lack commitment and conviction. I've read DarthPunk's filter carefully and wasn't able to detect anything too suspicious or compromising, as he has been making accusations and backing them up with well explained arguments. Also, both him and goodkarma have been making tons of pro-town and meaningful accusations. If one of them is mafia, it is not in this round that we will be able to lynch them unless we can pick up on something not yet noted. Stutters and Obvious to come. I'm sleepy and have to wake up early tomorrow. Please, be active, let me know what you think of this post and contribute your own ideas and suspicions as well. On August 17 2012 05:14 Z-BosoN wrote: My current lists of suspects stands as: 1) thrawn2112 2) YourHarry 3) Shady Sands Due to all of my previous reasoning, and the fact that none of them have given me reason to retract my suspicions. However, I am very firm on my decision to execute lynchers. Day one is filled with circumstantial evidence and is very easy to make wrong conclusions, and the probability of a miss-lynch is very high. What we DO know for CERTAIN is that lurkers are way more prejudicial to the town, because we cannot have decent reads on them. This is a game of reasoning and deduction, but for that, we need DATA, INFORMATION, which lurkers fail to provide. For this first day, since I don't think any of the suspicions so far are conclusive, I will vote for a lurker. We have Golbat , Stutters, and JHuyt who have been balls-out lurkers. I say we should lynch one of those. Now, speaking for myself, how will I choose? Let's take a brief look at their history: Golbat Has said nothing. Has two posts. He is lurker number one. He briefly accused thrawn with little evidence, threw some dirt on Shady, YourHarry and Solar. If we lynch him and he turns out townie, we will not have any new leads from that information, but will be down a useless townie. If we lynch him and he turns out scum, that will be great for us, but we will still have no leads. His accusations could just as easily be his scum buddies due to the fact that he hasn't done any sort of analysis on anybody. I would go even so far as to think that he will be mod-killed, due to not voting. If he suddenly posts now, we will have VERY strong reason to lynch him the next day, because posting some crap early on and disappearing until close to the deadline is a Strong Strong indicator of SCUM. Onward. Stutters He begins by agreeing that the discussion regarding SK is a waste of time he doesn't raise suspicion, doesn't do any investigative move, just says that and goes on to tell Solar to post better. Then he makes a longer post, telling Solar once again to stop with the trolling (which is fine, he was getting annoying), and making a small, non-compromising case against Shady. States some facts, then moves on, without taking an aggressive stance. Asks why getting filters is necessary (I had already mentioned this...). And just like that, he's gone. Basically he is on the same boat as Golbat. If we lynch him and he turns out townie, we will have lynched a semi-useless townie. If we lynch him and he turns out scum, great! But still no real info. So that leaves... JHyut Who begins with similar obvious cases against Solar, Shady, and YourHarry. Escapes having to post anything else saying "I'm sorry, but I don't think I can be of any more use until new evidence is posted.". Then goes on to FOS thrawn, not using any original evidence. Without explaining anything, says that Archrun was not scum, says that thrawn is not scum, then votes for Shady Sands, without explaining, and just like that he's gone. If we lynch him and he turns out townie, then thrawn will have some weight off his shoulders. He would have ignored accusing a greenie based on his lack of observation. Golbat will look about the same, because he was ignored alongside an innocent and we may figure something out on ArchRun as well (I still have to read more carefully his posts). If we lynch him and he turns out scum, Archrun and thrawn2112 will not look so good. He INSTANTLY dropped his suspicion of both these players, and this is resonated by my case against Thrawn, where I note a fishy situation between thrawn and either golbat,archrun and/or jhuyt. Here is a snippet so you guys don't have to go all the way back: + Show Spoiler + You made an FOS on Archrun by saying that he only had made 3 posts and had no scumhunting. However, you completely ignored Golbat, who only has 2 posts with one-dimensional scumhunting claims, being that the FIRST thing he says is that you are the scummiest player, to which you respond with: Is this something I need to defend myself on? I am not sober right now so I don't think I could type a clear response till I wake up. Going to sleep now, I hope to wake up and see some more posts. And you don't mention it again. This seems to me to be a clear, 100% dodge. You give IRL excuses and forget about it, even hinting that you don't feel the need to answer it. You ignore Golbat not once, but twice. A townie thrawn would definitely bother defending himself to a direct attack such as that, and would try to policy-lynch both Golbat and ArchRun. However, you also didn't call JHyut, who also has 2 posts and even worse in quality than both the mentioned posters. Why mention only ArchRun and not Golbat, who called you out or JHyut? Either this is incredibly sloppy play, or you have a scum partner. If we assume the latter, then I can only think of: 1) You are trying to distract people from Golbat by making other accusations, and completely ignored JHyut. 2) You are trying to bus your partner ArchRun so as to draw away suspicion from yourself in case he comes up red. And, you completely ignored JHyut and Golbat. 3) You don't want to call out three people at once for whatever reason and chose someone other than your scum partner. I find this Highly Suspicious. That being said, I think right now the general lurkyness of JHuyt + the lack of quality of his posts + this weird switch of votes + his affiliation with Golbat and the amount of information we can make out if he is lynched, I will go with ##Vote JHuyt PS: I noticed I got sniped. Dangerous timing there, Stutters. I will not bother changing my post, because I have to head out, but I think I will be able to log on near the deadline. Hope I sounded reasonable enough. Great job increasing the discussion in this eery end of D1! Here is Z-Boson this game On November 16 2012 03:34 Z-BosoN wrote: Allright, out of the bunch, I'd be happiest with a crossfire lynch. I don't doubt his internet connection problems, but my main problems are of these two posts: On November 14 2012 14:11 Crossfire99 wrote: I never want to get that behind ever again. Ugh. That was painful. So many useless posts. I can see why blazing really hated me for posting so much fluff in WLIIA. That's what makes it so weird this game, though. He's posted so much stuff that doesn't matter and just takes up space. In WLIIA, he came down on me so hard because of the amount of fluff I posted. He clearly knows it is anti-town, yet still does it here. I don't understand it at all. If he hadn't claimed jailkeeper (which I'm still not sure I buy), I probably would be voting for him right now. I'm willing to give him a little time to shape up his posting, but if he hasn't done it by then, I want to lynch him. I am also very confused by strong. I played with him both when he was town and scum, and he never played like this. I believe someone was talking about him possibly changing his meta because it was too obvious when he was scum. Basically he is playing weirdly and has a decent number of fluff posts. This makes me suspicious of him. I find him less scummy than blazing, though. Other than that though, I just need to digest everything. I have a serious headache now after reading all of that. If you want me to respond to something ask me a question. Otherwise I'll probably come in here sometime after I wake up tomorrow and comment on the top cases. I don't know of any other way of making sense of everything that is happening without going crazy. Oh and for anyone who is wondering why I chose blazing and strong to single out: blazing really stuck out with the amount of fluff he's been posting plus I know how he plays town because he just did it in WLIIA; as for strong , I've played with him in my last two games, plus I just figured out that he was scum in our last game, WLIIA, so his play is fresh on my mind. Bolded I read as: "look at me guys!!! I'm trying super hard to read everything!!" Underlined I read as an overexplanation to him posting his reads, which I find pretty scummy. He does that again here: On November 15 2012 10:35 Crossfire99 wrote: On November 15 2012 10:25 iamperfection wrote: Crossfire if you run away right now i will be super pissed the next 30 or so min of your belong in this thread right now. I am freaking in this thread. I have to catch up on a lot of stuff. I am sorry I wasn't here. I planned to be here and spend time on this game, but then my internet crapped out. I don't know how else I can apologize for this. Anyway, I like this case by marv. + Show Spoiler + On November 15 2012 08:58 marvellosity wrote: Z-Boson Metarelated stuff. Let's a gogo. First of all, here's a sample post from him playing scum in Newbie XXIV. You'll have to excuse the length, but the point is it's length and effort. Show nested quote + On August 22 2012 02:38 Z-BosoN wrote: @goodkarma Well that was quick. Let me see if I understand. Now, in day 3, in a MYLO situation, you propose to. On August 21 2012 09:16 goodkarma wrote: Okay then. We need to be active today, and I'm wasting no time in getting started: @Golbat: You have a lot of explaining to do for your lurking, so please start there. Also, if you would kindly explain this quote: On August 18 2012 15:59 Golbat wrote: On August 18 2012 15:50 DarthPunk wrote: On August 18 2012 15:32 Golbat wrote: On August 18 2012 15:19 DarthPunk wrote: On August 18 2012 15:10 Golbat wrote: On August 18 2012 12:55 goodkarma wrote: @YourHarry: Any suggestions as to who this someone else is that we should lynch? My first thoughts are either Orchrow or you. You seem to be very interested in keeping thrawn alive as long as possible... I suggest you start making some meaningful suggestions as to who you feel looks scummier. And it would also be helpful if you commented on people's most recent cases against thrawn, Orchrow, and yourself instead of continuing to strive to keep Thrawn alive. There are situations here where the vigi still shouldn't claim. Like what if there is an sk, but the vigi hasn't used his shot yet? A vigi counter claim here would be terrible, as he could wind up rb'ed by scum and NK'ed before he can do anything. And if we wait, who's to say town doesn't get a successful medic save or rb? Or that scum or the sk (if he exists) doesn't just sit back and do nothing for one night? There's a few different ways that there could be an sk but fewer than two night kills. Waiting achieves nothing. My read, and the read of several of us here, is that thrawn is scum. It's time for him to go. Read through the case points against him, and show us why you feel he might be town. It's more productive than your WIFOM defense of thrawn you're presenting now. I am in agreement that we should just lynch thrawn here. We seem to have caught a scum or even two, I think if thrawn flips scum then YH is almost certainly scum. You are lurking pretty hard buddy. I would also like to ask Ochrow, solarsail Z-Boson and Stutters to increase their contributions. I agree i'm lurking, but I feel that I have at least contributed well for my sparse filter. I made my case on thrawn, and cast my vote. When I see something worth discussing I mention it. I may not be living in the thread as hard as you, harry or thrawn, but at least I've contributed. What do you suggest I do to be less "lurky"? Make a shit case on someone in a misguided attempt to look active? Last game it got me lynched and cost town a vigi shot. I'll go over the thread again and see if anything catches my eye, but I don't really see a case I can make that hasn't already been made ATM. At the very least i'll prod some people in my next couple posts. Why so defensive? I understand that you got lynched for being over eager in XXII but your posting is markedly different than what I experienced there (although you were only alive for 24 hours so not much of a meta to read ) my post was not a personal attack but rather a call to all lurkers to contribute something. Apologies. I didn't mean to come off as defensive, just that I'm not intentionally lurking, just not posting uselessly. in my last game I died before I could make a big contribution, and I just want to help catch a scum before I die this game. Now is the time to step it up I guess. I've already explained what I felt was scummy about this, but in case you need a reminder: You seem more interested in staying alive right now than in actually scumhunting. "Not posting uselessly" is not an excuse for not posting at all. Even one one-line post explaining your absence would have been useful at this point, and you wouldn't even contribute that. You argue to not be lurking intentionally, but I would argue that yes, lurking for 48 hours is rather intentional. There's no way that you haven't thought up anything worthwhile in that time unless if between then and now you have forgotten altogether about this thread. And why would you do that if you want to "make a big contribution" that leads to the lynch of a scum? One more question: Why did you tunnel Thrawn so hard? ##Vote: Golbat Wait a minute. This is do or die for the town. You plan to consolidate your vote on someone who barely has any information on him and has been a hardcore lurker since day one? Because he tunneled thrawn, as if you didn't? Oh wait, that's right, you had a very sudden change of heart. But then, you go on and say that: (...)And finally there's the final vote count for day 2. I currently believe the Thrawn mislynch had heavy scum support. One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support. If you look at the votes, and see where those who have established themselves as town have voted, I'm sure you'll agree the YourHarry lynch had some reputable town support behind it. And all of the current scum suspects are on the Thrawn mislynch.: Well that's a very convenient argument, to go along with your name not being on that list. Drop in the bomb, wait for people to sheep you, then escape, no compromises. It's also ironic you didn't think of it before, when everybody wanted Shady Sands dead, who was the top poster at the moment. I'll go ahead and post the day one votes. ShadySands (5): SolarSail, thrawn2112, SolarSail, mkfuba07, Jhuyt, YourHarry, YourHarry SolarSail (0): YourHarry thrawn2112 (4): YourHarry ShadySands, Archrun, DarthPunk, Golbat goodkarma (0): YourHarry Jhuyt (2): goodkarma, Z-Boson Archrun (2): Ochrow, Stutters695. Ochrow, YourHarry Same argument you used. Look at that, everyone on ShadySands list must be quite the suspects of being scum. Because, "One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support." Except that he wasn't scum was he? This is because this argument is very weak. It only becomes suspicious when one target has a LOT of scumminess on him and a LOT of posts against him while the other looks so innocent and barely has anything substatial on him. This is not the case, because thrawn had a huge wall of text against him, not only the one you posted, but also the one that I did as well. DP also thought he was scum, and I will agree that the case against thrawn was fairly powerful. DAY ONE should have been the time we should have lynched lurkers. DAY TWO, maybe. Not day 3, with a do or die scenario, against someone who, as Obvious pointed out, is clearly not giving a rat's ass about this game. This day will be the target with the greatest case against him. I really don't like how quick it was for you to vote on golbat, and how quick some people seemed to sheep you. Regarding YourHarry, you went from him possibly being your third suspect to him being your main suspect with this post: On August 21 2012 17:59 goodkarma wrote: Regarding YourHarry: Sometimes the most obvious scum is the hardest to spot. YourHarry has a "meta" for sporadic and unpredictable play. But however strange, or different, or unpredictable his play is, if you were to look at the motivation behind his play, you can determine his alignment. With YourHarry, actions speak louder than words: -First, YourHarry is fond of withholding information from us. YourHarry starts the game by making a weak WIFOM case on me, claiming if I'm not a mason I'm scum. He withholds his read on me for a long time until pressured to provide it, and while here maybe you could argue he had some justification, this is a recurring theme. Over and over again he's done this. With this "mason case," with vote swapping history, with providing reads on certain people (most recently, Golbat). This behavior is clearly anti-town. Obviously withholding information would be advantageous for scum as it could make it harder for others to get a good read on him. Could a townie also do this? Maybe, but this is just the tip of the iceberg. -YourHarry is a fan of last-minute vote swapping. He has now twice last minute switched his vote to secure the mislynch of the top candidate. This behavior simply can't be ignored anymore. There is clear scum motivation here. -The use of WIFOM first, actual use of reasoning when pressured later. He already did that today with Golbat. He started today with soft defending him, and then decides he will actually "read his filter." I'll say that again: only after defending Golbat with WIFOM does he decide it's a good idea to read his filter. Then, finally, he decides to actually present a case which is in fact against Golbat. In other words, he's demonstrated a lack of interest in actually contributing meaningfully to scumhunting. -On top of this, today he has focused a large degree of effort on getting people to role claim. If my theory on scum's motive for the night kills is to be believed, YourHarry is trying to draw important town roles out of hiding as easy scum targets. There's loads of scum motivation to be seen behind YourHarry's actions, and there are several cases that have already been made against him. Yet somehow he seems to have avoided getting lynched. My biggest issue with lynching him, and why he hasn't been higher on my "scum reads," has been that his play is consistently bad, and it would be easy to mislynch a town YourHarry. But if you look at his actions, they fit a scum agenda. And finally there's the final vote count for day 2. I currently believe the Thrawn mislynch had heavy scum support. One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support. If you look at the votes, and see where those who have established themselves as town have voted, I'm sure you'll agree the YourHarry lynch had some reputable town support behind it. And all of the current scum suspects are on the Thrawn mislynch.: Directly from the official end of day 2 post (minus the blue text): thrawn2112, as VisceraEyes, vigilante, was lynched! + Show Spoiler [Final Vote Count] + Final Vote Count: Thrawn2112 (5): Obvious.660 (1): goodkarma, YourHarry (3): DarthPunk, Jhuyt, Stutters695 goodkarma (0): Jhuyt (1): thrawn2112, YourHarry, right now you're my top scum read. ##Unvote ##Vote: YourHarry I encourage everyone to put together their reads, as there's still time for you to express your viewpoints before we consolidate our vote in the last 24 hours of the day. And obviously supporting or dissenting case points towards this case would be much appreciated. Your arguments are nothing new, it's what has been stated on YourHarry since the beggining of time. The only thing new that you add is that he is suspiciously wanting everyone to roleclaim. But why do you focus on him, and blatantly ignore DarthPunk's same remark: On August 21 2012 13:49 DarthPunk wrote: On August 21 2012 13:24 YourHarry wrote: Good point on scums not having time to respond to your latest post. But there were common suspicions between Golbat and Jhyut that were posted hours before deadline: Z-boson's suspect list went: me, Jhyut, Golbat Darth's suspect list: Golbat, Jhyut, Solar GK's suspect list: Golbat, Jhyut, Obvious Maybe WIFOM. But to me, I still can't get my head around scum Golbat lynching town Jhyut, who seemed to be scum Golbat's only way out. Regards to no lynching, the only caveat for choosing to lynch today rather than tomorrow is the medic save. But if we decide to go ahead with our lynch today, I think claiming today is a good idea. We NEED a scum lynch today. And everyone claiming would make that much easier. Sorry I am kind of busy and am not following the thread right now. but I agree with a mass claim. we are at the stage of the game where we need as much info as possible because we cannot afford a mistake. I feel really out of my depth here, scum are either afk winning or playing really well. The same guy in which you solemnly confided your trust in your "will": (...)I have played with DarthPunk before, and I’ve seen his scum play. He has been 10 times more proactive than he was in that game about sharing scum reads and I am convinced he is legitimately searching for scum this time around. Add to that that he’s come independently to similar reads as myself, and I feel he is my strongest town read right now. So all of you get behind him as your leader and consolidate your vote under him. There is a small (note: slim) chance that he’s scum, but you’re going to have to live with that. To have a chance of winning town needs to consolidate its vote and this is the best way to do this. Come the next night, I leave it to Darthpunk to leave his successor in a will similar to this one should he also get NK’ed. Also, you say these incredibly serious accusations: (...)There's loads of scum motivation to be seen behind YourHarry's actions, and there are several cases that have already been made against him. Yet somehow he seems to have avoided getting lynched. My biggest issue with lynching him, and why he hasn't been higher on my "scum reads," has been that his play is consistently bad, and it would be easy to mislynch a town YourHarry. But if you look at his actions, they fit a scum agenda. And you don't bother explaining what you mean. You just sheep around with the main case that has already been made, add something meaningless (if you want to give it meaning, please go ahead and attack DarthPunk as well), then hint at the most serious accusations you can possibly make and don't go ahead and explain what you mean. I agree wholeheartedly that YourHarry is scum, you can go ahead and check that in my filter , but the way you write this and the arguments you use make me feel very suspicious that you may be scum as well. Now I see that the only reason I had lifted my suspicions of you were mainly WIFOM, but your latest actions have definitely raised my eyebrows. Right now is the easiest time for a scum to slip, because any small mistake now will not slip by so easily. One more thing, you say that the night kills were not discussed in detail. Read my filter, if you will. Actually this night's night kills is what is giving me additional ammo on YH. That soon to come. ##FoS goodkarma Also, here is Z-Boson's filter from that game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359489&user=28495 Notice there are a large number of big posts. Big posts with certain conclusions. All the time. Much as here. What's missing in Z-Boson's play this game? Show nested quote + On October 21 2012 22:46 Z-BosoN wrote: On October 21 2012 13:13 DarthPunk wrote: Also his defense each time is oh you must be scum and trying to trick me. Nothing townie about it. And your 'meta' read is bleh. Haha, you don't say, eh DP? Show nested quote + On October 22 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote: On October 22 2012 00:52 DarthPunk wrote: Also ZB. Postgame I would like to go through how you make such accurate reads on me all the time. It get's frustrating as scum. (and also hilarious) Oh-oh. This obviously-I'm-town post comes mostly from scum DP. Don't get so confident, I'm not dead sure on you yet! Show nested quote + On October 22 2012 01:08 Z-BosoN wrote: Sniped by austin. There we are, finally. Now waiting for the two days of unforgiving tunneling from him Hello Keirathi! How goes your scum life? Any thoughts you would like to trouble us with? Show nested quote + On October 22 2012 03:53 Z-BosoN wrote: k k Well, you really think he is scum and should insta-die before he's even had a chance to defend himself? I'm uncomfortable sending him to his grave like this... I'd like to know if you are scum. Think about it. It's the pro-town thing to do. If you are scum, it's pro-town because town will lynch a scum. If you are town, then it's pro-town that we don't have to kill you. Tell us Show nested quote + On September 30 2012 13:32 Z-BosoN wrote: Oh god. Is there anyways I can mega-vote him? Show nested quote + On September 30 2012 13:52 Z-BosoN wrote: I think someone has some real issues. Does liquid city have a psych ward? Show nested quote + On October 02 2012 11:04 Z-BosoN wrote: Omfg austin really loves me. I'm just going to ignore you this time, I make an oath that your bad arguments will bother me no more. You also seem a lot more scummy this game. At least on LVII your arguments made sense, from an ape's perspective. Right now you just seem desperate. I, Z-BosoN, solemnly swear, to never defend myself from austin's scrutiny ever again. Show nested quote + On October 22 2012 05:24 Z-BosoN wrote: Austin, holy shit. For the first time ever, I've successfully agreed with every single thing in your post, every single thing. /applauds Due to recent events though, Hapa is coming off pretty suspicious to me. This is a selection of quotes from GSL3 and Liquid City. I paste them all here to demonstrate Z-Boson's ability, and indeed propensity, to throw in light-hearted comments. He's not all serious all the time. Look at his filter here. Can you find that? At all? No, not really. It's completely absent. Arguably, this is it: Show nested quote + On November 13 2012 09:41 Z-BosoN wrote: Regarding DarthPunk, don't worry, if he's scum, I'll figure it out Right at the beginning. I find his attitude towards DP... not townie. There's a lack of interaction from Z-Bo towards DarthPunk that I wouldn't expect from townie Z-Bo. Show nested quote + On November 13 2012 11:20 Z-BosoN wrote: DP, that's the second time you've voted for him without saying why. This won't do. It goes from the above, to: Show nested quote + On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote: Why not DarthPunk? He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though. He finds him a 'good lynch', but he makes it clear that he's not using the referring to self as mislynch thing as scum. Is it that he's bitchy? Is that a scumtell? Who knows. He's "interested" to see how he goes in Day 2 though. The wording is just... ick. Show nested quote + On November 15 2012 08:21 Z-BosoN wrote: Had some internet problems.. Luckily it was on control C. In reply to marvs other post: On November 15 2012 06:14 marvellosity wrote: On November 15 2012 06:13 Z-BosoN wrote: On November 15 2012 06:06 marvellosity wrote: On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote: Why not DarthPunk? He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though. i hate this. what's your read on him and why? He can definitely be scum. The reasoning is above. I'd rather lynch Hopeless. Perhaps instead of "Why not DP?" just read "DP" and interpret that as a secondary assessment. I'd rather lynch Hopeless though, my post says it all. I find it interesting how you hated my bit on DP, instead of my bit on debears, your main lynch candidate. Is there anything else you want to add while you are at it? Do you agree with what I said? I'm finding you kinda scummy all of a sudden actually. "He can definitely be scum" is not a read, by the way. Anyone can definitely be scum. Isn't it fucking obvious that I mean that to me he has a good chance of being scum, especially given what I've written on him? 10x better than your "I'm finding you kinda scummy" which adds shit to the thread. If Hopeless is a 10, DP is a 7, go with that. Try answering the question now? I phrased it very clearly and I find it important enough that I insist. Anyways, Hopeless´s meta explanation makes sense, and that was my main issue with him. Right now I´d rather lynch DarthPunk. Gonna let marv finish to see if he will/will not change my mind. ##Unvote There's weird things going on in this post. "If hopeless is a 10" to "his meta explanation makes sense". Generally, given Z-Bo's intimate familiarity with DP's play and his meta, there seems to be no discernable effort to make any read on him on that basis. Z-Boson is calling DarthPunk scum right now, but there's no supporting evidence of games previously played. I don't buy it. Also I bolded that other line where he says I should answer just because I find the wording completely unnatural. "I find it important enough that I insist". None of this play looks like Z-Boson's town play. When he is townie, he is very indecisive about who he wants to lynch. Just look at his filter in GSL3 or Liquid city. Liquid City his vote jumped around more times than I can count and with great uncertainty, and even his final vote he still seemed clueless. And in GSL3 he agonised for days on everyone before finally voting for someone. Here there is no... communication with town, trying to figure things out properly. It's BAM, BlazingHand is scum. He pursues BlazingHand - and make no mistake, he can pursue very well as scum, check the filter I gave you. Then when BH is off the table, he comes back today with BAM, Hopeless is scum. As quoted there's the absence of Z-bo interacting in a lighthearted manner with town that I am familiar with. His filter is short, with long posts, rather than longer, with lots of short posts figuring things out. ##Vote: Z-Boson Therefore, I am switching my vote from bh who i still think is scummy, but isn't going to get lynched today, to zboson. ##Vote Z-boson That's probably the safest route for scum. Why go ahead and dip yourself amongst a complete clusterfuck of people trying to figure shit out, when you can just sheep marv, gtfo, and feel all safe? He indicates he was present later on, when he says. On November 15 2012 11:15 Crossfire99 wrote: Wow. Good job everyone who voted for him. I think that is first time I've ever seen a last minute vote switch work. I always thought they never worked. Good job. Time to go read his filter. So yea, I'd be safest with lynching him tomorrow. thrawn seems waaaaaay off his meta. He's made some long posts, trying to be all open and shit, but that doesn't give me a town read of him. Thrawn is usually much more investigative, and much more present as town. (See marv, I think this applies much better to thrawn than on me). I have to go soon, but I'll read him better when I get back. Strongandbig is trying hard to be a grush57. That's pretty much it. Can't conclude shit from reading his filter. He's evidently aware of his meta as scum, and could very well be trying to do the opposite here, but imo he's beign completely useless. marvellosity I still have to read his filter better. I didn't like the fact that he completely ignored my defense and asked me why I seemed so sure of everything, something he really didn't include in his original case. Don't want to lynch him day2 though. If he's scum, he's trying a loooot harder than on GSL. On November 14 2012 05:14 Z-BosoN wrote: On iamp I hated the reason for which he voted on me, but I share marv's stance on how he's drawing out unnecessary attention. The only thing that actually bugs me is his interaction with BH. As a townie, if I agree with someone, the last thing I would be thinking is: On November 14 2012 01:02 iamperfection wrote: On November 14 2012 01:00 marvellosity wrote: Rock Band or Whose Line are recent town games of his. do you know any of his scum games? the search function isn't helping me find all his games. What debears mentions is his radical switch from >>Hunting BH<< to >>Agreeing with BH<<. Except that this post I quoted is immediately after his vote on me. Here, he still shows interest in finding out if BH is scum, someone he had just agreed with. That being said, he is being incredibly flip-floppy, which I'm finding extremely weird. I don't think this is enough to peg him as scum though, I can imagine him as town being suspicious of everyone. I find BH's play to be much, much more appaling. I have only played one game with him, so I'm not super aware of his meta, but it is totally different than his Liquid City one. Here he has made one major case, a weak one at that, and established an unusally high amount of certainty on it, calling it "a masterpiece". That being said, right now I'm interested in debears, Crossfire, and thrawn. Crossfire is rather obvious, he's not posted and is heading off towards a modkill/replacement. I'm not considering him a lynch choice until he actually decides to post. Thrawn, however, is unusually inactive. I remember him as townie being much, much more active than this. He's actually managed to make one entrance post: [ http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=19#361 ]. Shows some suspicions, ask some questions, and is gone like the wind. debears has also raised my eyebrows in this start of the game. He's been extremely fluffy in the beggining, and no matter what his meta is, that's not pro-town. Also, I don't like the feel of his case against iamp. He's establishing himself on some of hapa's arguments, but does not deal with this: On November 14 2012 02:53 marvellosity wrote: I don't understand why it's scum play. 1. Believes miller claim 2. Later decides he's scummy The scum motivation is what? He wanted a case to jump on? Is that it? Which to me feels like a natural step in accusing iamp of being scum. The most he's said is that he didn't agree with it, and I don't find that satisfactory at all given that he is pursuing a scumread. The only argument he added was "guilty conscience", to which I find very weak, as I don't find any motive for iamp to pursue something he doesn't think is strong. Anyways, had debears actually voted based on that, I would have been much more suspicious. Right now he just has my eyebrows raised. @debears I'd like you to expand a bit more on your read of iamp. 1) I get that you think he has bad reasoning for his switch. Why does this make him scummy? Bad reasoning =/= scummy unless it has scum motivation. What is the scum motivation of his actions? 2) Here you try to make this contrast: 1) He cares about how the town is viewing him 2) He doesn't believe his reasoning is that great for his vote -note the "well I think his actions speak louder". It's a weak statement. Not a strong one, (a strong one) which should be warranted when you change your read from town to scum in literally no time I've mentioned this above, but I'd like you to answer it. Why would scum iamp establish a vote for which he himself believes is not based on good reasoning? I don't understand why you are finding this scummy. Interpret this as: me not buying it. Now tell me that this is Town ZB and not scum ZB. You'll also note his town play (GSL III) is totes different Yes. His town play is very, very different in pretty much the exact way you mentioned in your case against him. There is no doubt in my mind that ZB is the last scum. Show nested quote + On November 18 2012 10:19 DarthPunk wrote: On November 18 2012 10:17 iamperfection wrote: On November 18 2012 10:15 DarthPunk wrote: Nah. I want ZB to flip. Then if the game is still going we can check out that wall of text of his. its not that long read it bro I did read it. I still think he is scum. If he is town it holds more value for me than it does currently. It looks exactly how he thinks it would. A mechanism to escape from his lynch. It only becomes useful when he dies. There is no one I want to lynch over ZB. And the only person I would consider is clarity. The thing that I really don't like is his insistence on Z-BosoN meta. That was DarthPunk main point against Z-Boson, please check the conclusions for all his cases and you can find something like "this is not how town Z-B plays". And I really don't like this because Z-Bo had given a reasonable and honest explanation for the change in his meta and has given us elements to back it up. These points show that DarthPunk was using double-standards and confirmation bias wrt Z-Boson. Part III --- The Comeback of the Scum After Z-Boson flips, DarthPunk has been quiet for a while at the exception of a few posts. I found this one which could be the perfect post to set up a series of mislynches. Show nested quote + On November 19 2012 15:10 DarthPunk wrote: lynch Djo clarity and S&B and I doubt we could lose this.THis game is a pain in the arse to keep up with. Far too many posts most of them are useless and are just repeating what has already been said. I am going to look through the filters of those three players and see if I can come up with anything. Before attacking me, he has misinterpreted and twisted my posts and accused me to push lynch baits. I want you to understand that the lynch bait is me, and that scum DP is pushing my mislynch right now. I know I look bad because of the setup speculation but I was honestly thinking that it would solve the game. And I hope you realize that it could have if debears had lived with green or red checks to share with us. Anyway, I've given strong townreads on Kickstart and Iamp here in this post Show nested quote + On November 20 2012 03:01 Djodref wrote: <snip> @ Hopeless At the moment, my strongest town reads are Iamp and Kickstart. Iamp looks the most concerned about this game with Clarity. He has presented good contributions and promotes a good town atmosphere for the discussion. He has shown interest and provided his insights on almost everything what was going on in the thread. Moreover, I don't feel that his posts are forced. He just looks genuinely town. He is the guy I would never want to lynch. Kickstart, even he doesn't participate enough at my taste, really gives me a first time town player feeling. I'm just coming out of my newbie games and they are full of games like him. If he was scum, I think he would have produced some Crossfire-like looking posts on day1 and that he would have already broke into pieces at this point. He needs to get free of the "I'm going to get suspicious if I post burden". I think that he could show clearly that he is town if he could post more freely. I'll give him "carte blanche" for his postings until we get at MYLO, if we have to come to this, which I doubt. I might be stupid to insist on this point, but I'm going to eat my hat if Kickstart has sniped debears. The last scum has to be an experienced player in my opinion. and I still get post like this from DP Show nested quote + On November 20 2012 21:18 DarthPunk wrote: Djo. Explain in your own words why clarity and Perfection are town reads. Show nested quote + On November 20 2012 20:29 DarthPunk wrote: On November 20 2012 20:20 Djodref wrote: On November 20 2012 19:56 DarthPunk wrote: On November 20 2012 10:58 iamperfection wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=60#1192 so i was going though his filter again making a case but i ran into this post. Scum i don't think would call out his own member that quickly would he? im having a hard time getting past this especially when cross had little attention on him. You should know this s not true. Cross was a weak player.No doubt they were worried about him in the QT. he would be an ideal bus. Oh I am back BTW and catching up with the thread. Also everyone calline out my inactivity GTFO. I have a 10 page filter day two. I have pushed my scum reads. Am I playing badly? Sure I am. I have zero motivation right now. It feels like I am doing an assignment. But here I am reading the thread when I have no inclination to do so. There are some spammers in this game who have fucking mass posted with little fucking content of value. (clarity) Who make this game a chore to read. I have a strong town read on S&B he is a mislynch. I want to lynch clarity or DJO. I am total lynch bait right now. Anyone pushing a lynch on me is fucking suspicious. Enter DJo. Subtly wanting to push me and fucking Iamp. like seriously pushing the inactives who he should have a damn town read on?? anyway. Now I am back reading the thread. Heaps of shit is pissing me off which is motivating me in a way. so that is good I guess. Top Scum reads. Clarity, Djo. Cool story bro... I have some doubts about you and they grow larger when you are clearly twisting what I have said. I doubt you can show that I want to push iamp because that it simply a lie. Sup Scumzor. I can find the post or did I misread the part where you asked BH to comment on both Iamp and myself after heavily implying you had altered your town read on me? I can guarentee that if he had said he thought we were scummy you would have jumped all over us. LOL. That you were feeling out a wagon on lynch-bait was so fucking transparent dude. And as I am reading through your filter there is very little that suggests TOWN to me. Show nested quote + On November 20 2012 22:11 DarthPunk wrote: On November 20 2012 22:08 Djodref wrote: On November 20 2012 22:02 DarthPunk wrote: On November 20 2012 21:53 Clarity_nl wrote: I was the one who asked him what he thought of kickstart, and now you're saying it's bad he made a post on kickstart? You say he's wishy washy, but there is a fucking conclusion at the end of that post. He points out all his observations and makes a conclusion. It was wishy washy. But I don't really care what you think. The conclusion was that he was a newbie. And that was not difficult to see for anyone. Some conclusion right there. It is worse for him that you asked him to make that post because that was his only real analysis or contribution on anything even remotely consisting of scum hunting. Without that he has done none whatsoever. That's a lie. I have clearly stated what was my read on him after my analysis. Newbie town it is. Ok I must have misread. regardless, the way in which you constructed that post was wishy-washy. here is why he might be town Here is why he could be scum I think he is newbie town. Which for all intents and purposes leaves a caveat, as newbie town is a lot closer to scummy than a 'Strong' town read. Either way he is not reading the thread properly or he wants to discredit me while my attention is over him. Our exchanges about Kickstart clearly showed that he is twisting my stance about Kickstart, which has been clear since the beginning. Conclusion Bussing Hapa
Z-Boson lynch
The Comeback
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Djodref
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On November 22 2012 16:14 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 22 2012 16:01 Djodref wrote: On November 22 2012 15:47 iamperfection wrote: On November 22 2012 15:00 DarthPunk wrote: This is getting nowhere. I will no longer respond to you. actually you guys will be responding to each other for what might be the next four or so days so you better get used to it. Pray to god S&B is scum if not we are going to be getting real comfy with each other . @ iamp Is this really your conclusion when you see DP and me going after each other throat like this ? So, you are saying that both of us are town and we are both stupid for giving a town read on the last remaining scum ? I would like you to understand first that it is obvious that one of us has to be scum. Then, I would be glad if you could understand that DP has to be today lynch if we ever want to win this game. I'm still waiting for your comments on my case against DP. For reference you can find it in the following spoiler. + Show Spoiler + On November 21 2012 02:26 Djodref wrote: DarthPunk Part I --- Bussing Hapa During D1, DarthPunk has shown interest mainly in the persons of Clarity and Z-Boson. His interactions with Hapa were limited. As a reminder, please find here his famous "last will" post before getting almost lynched. Show nested quote + On November 15 2012 10:34 DarthPunk wrote: I am flipping town. Lynch Z-Bo and clarity. BH and Hapa need to be looked at closely. Marv is 100% town Debears is my second strongest town read. You got this debears. <3 Perfection town. Crossfire town S&B town Hopeless null Everyone I missed. Null and forgettable apparently. Never been mis-lynched before. I blew chunks this game GO town!!! Hapa needs to be looked closely at. DP has mentioned previously that he wouldn't vote for Hapa or marv D1 here + Show Spoiler + On November 13 2012 11:52 DarthPunk wrote: <snip> Yep. I would not. I would not vote day one for Hapa or marv either. Unless there was something super obvious I would not vote for them. But I do not think that would happen because they are all good players and that is why I respect them I suppose. So, Hapa is not a good lynch for today while Z-Bo is. And yet, after "realizing" that Hapa is scum while BH, debears and iamp started to threw their FoS around. We have Show nested quote + On November 15 2012 10:56 DarthPunk wrote: On November 15 2012 10:52 Hapahauli wrote: On November 15 2012 10:50 Z-BosoN wrote: Also, if anyone is thinking of voting me, it is becasue you are blindly sheeping marv. Fucking read my defense, FUCKING READ WHAT I SAID REGARDING MY META. FUCKING READ WHAT HAPA SAID. It's a case based SOLELY ON META DP is acting VERY differently then when he is scum gettingl ynched. I want to unvote him and vote for hopeless. Also, if I for some godly reason to get lynched. Here are my reads: Hapa: scum scum scum. Gonna go after him day 2 should I live. BH probably scum. I can't fathom his claim AT ALL. Kill him should he be alive in like, day 3. Rest of everybody I'm not sure. Marv is prob town, an arrogant fucking one who can't see the reasonable explanation I've given, but he's pretty much town. Yeah die. "Fucking read what Hapa said" "Hapa; scum scum scum" ##Unvote ##Vote Z-Boson This bussing is so transparent Show nested quote + On November 15 2012 10:56 DarthPunk wrote: On November 15 2012 10:55 Z-BosoN wrote: LYNCH HAPAHAULI. LYNCH BLAZINGHAND. when he is alive day 3. marv, hope you learn you are not the fucking god of mafia, and see that meta reads are only worth it if it isn't fucking obvious stylistic proven logical and pre-claimed reasons. WIFOM I don't understand how you can come with the idea that your top scumread is planting WIFOM bombs. I think that his last minute vote was pressed by Hapa in the scumQT. What I find mostly interesting is his reaction afterward. Show nested quote + On November 15 2012 11:25 DarthPunk wrote: <snip> You are far from confiremd ZB and your last 'will' was a WIFOM bomb if I ever saw it. I am calling BH, HAPA, ZB team right now. So basically, BH and ZB have bussed Hapa for sure but -> Show nested quote + On November 15 2012 11:34 DarthPunk wrote: Also I am confirmed town. SO suck it, all of you. Excellent double standards. He is confirmed town because his lynch was pushed by scum and he lynched Hapa but ZB and BH are not at all in the same position, especially ZB here, and have obviously bussed. For your information, he retracts himself afterwards on BH because he certainly doesn't want to push a lynch on a JK. Part II --- The Lynch of Z-BoSon I cannot emphasize enough how stupid Z-BosoN lynch was. I feel very sorry for not having been here in the thread the last week-end but IRL stuff prevails, especially saturday nights. Anyway, I have tried to explain to DP that he was using double standards regarding ZB and BH but I've been called an idiot for it. Here is the post for reference Show nested quote + On November 17 2012 15:29 Djodref wrote: @ DarthPunk Let's look at the two following players Blazinghands
Yet he is the last on your lynch list Z-BosoN
You want to lynch him today The probability for us to have a miller is roughly the same than the probability for us to have a JK. They both couldn't confirm their claims by any actions. Why can you not understand this ? But let's also take a look at the similarities between Z-Bo and DP at that time Z-BoSoN
DP
I don't understand how town DP could not sympathize with Z-BosoN at this point and has no doubts at all about his alignment. I really don't understand how he could not have at least doubts about it. Show nested quote + On November 17 2012 11:21 DarthPunk wrote: On November 17 2012 11:18 Blazinghand wrote: On November 17 2012 11:17 DarthPunk wrote: Here is SCUM Z-Boson from XXIV On August 20 2012 12:25 Z-BosoN wrote: All right guys, some debriefing should take place. I agree that we shouldn't back off during the night. It is crucial we get it right this time. Let's see what we have: YourHarry Extremely weird player. My main theory against him was that he was trying to do a lame bus on thrawn. Granted as thrawn was indeed vigi, this is not the case. However, his posts and comments generally are inconsistent, lack explanations, and keep changing. His posts are a diarrhea of WIFOM that I've decided are only here to confuse us with its vagueness, lack of clarity, and lack of purpose. Observe: I am having second thoughts about Thrawn. First thing that doesn't make sense if Thrawn is scum: If Thrawn is indeed scum then he left that "bread crumb" post so that he can use that as evidence to mislead the town that he is vigilante. But Thrawn denied this post as the "bread crumb" post, and in his initial claim, he never even referenced this post in the first place... Mega power WIFOM. Second thing that I am not sure about is that, claiming vigilante is so dangerous for scum. One weak point in this line of thinking is that Thrawn did ask the mod to confirm that there could be more than one vigilante. I think it is possible that scum Thrawn DID ask the moderator in private prior to asking publicly that there could be more than one vigilante. What is this supposed to implicate? Useless garbage. STILL, whether or not there could be two vigilante... a counter vigilante claim would definitely have made Thrawn look suspicious. Would it not? I am not sure scum would have taken this risk. He keeps babbling, and doesn't make a point. How in anyway is this post helping town? And we keep going: But I am scared to unvote, because I will be the next person to be lynched after Thrawn What is this supposed to mean? Is he a scum that wants us to think this or is he a townie that wants us to think that he is thinking... oh wait, WIFOM. This statement means CRAP. ... and more .... I am not super confident in my scum read. Upon my reading just now, I found Jhyut case's scummy. Sheeping Thrawn's case here, but Jhyut did not care whether I am town or scum - he wanted to lynch me. I thought he was something else, but I guess I was wrong again. HE is also lurking pretty hard, so he may turn out to be scum Crappety crap crap CRAP. He is randomly throwing around suspicions and not committing to anything. This in no conceivable way helps town. My case against Golbat and Darth was based on my scum read on Thrawn. Not sure anymore. Scumslip? How does he suddenly know that thrawn is not scum? Oh, that's right, he decided thrawn isn't scum with his brilliant and well thought-out argument, quoted above. I'm sure we can agree that his posts don't help the town and scream scum. Even though there was strong evidence that thrawn and YH were scum, due to the way they were playing it D1, I am still inclined to think he is scum. This requires much more thought, as we will have to be certain that we lynch a scum in the next day. Jhuyt He is a quiet and lurky player. He mentions possibilities, without compromise, and doesn't take a stance on anything. The more I think of it the more I find that either Shady or Thrawn is scum. But since my basis of suspicion against Thrawn is basically gone I really can't vote for him. I think this post + Show Spoiler + coupled with Thrawn's reason to accuse Arch is enough for me too consider Shady as scum. ##Vote: Shady Sands I have to go for the next couple of hours so I won't be here for the conclusion of the day, see ya later. Bases himself off completely off of someone else's arguments, and announces he will have to leave. He then makes complains about how wishy-washy YourHarry is, says it is urgent that we lynch him, and starts to make shallow arguments on GK: When I looked at the case GK made in this post I got the feeling that you might be scum, but I wasn't sure. When I couple that with your scumslip it makes more sense that he's right and therefore I think you're scum. The benefit of the doubt line was one that I was considering to cut out of the post because it doesn't add anything and I'm pretty sure I misused the expression. I should have said that while I do think you're scum I think that YH's behaviour is way scummier and so much more anti-town that a lynch on him is necessary so that we can have a clearer discussion. But still considering YourHarry's wishy-washyness more scummy. Gets attacked by thrawn, who basically states the same things I'm saying right now, and is defended with weak and contentless posts. He simply doesn't take a solid stance on anyone (except maybe for YH). He's generally much more lurkier and gives off too few to work with. Golbat Beastly Lurker. Joined on the thrawn bandwagon and disappeared. We should have lynched him a long time ago. This makes me understand why lurker policy needs to be so strong. If he was a civilian before, then we would be down a lurking civilian who was not helping at all. Now, however, we cannot afford another misslynch, and have to be more careful. But since he has barely any posts, it will be very hard to determine for sure what he is. goodkarma and DarthPunk I wanted to make sure that I wasn't skipping any details on the non-obvious choices. I've noticed some weird behavior on GK, which I've already mentioned. Since I've already gone through thrawn's filter, I can understand where GK could have found some reason to back off of thrawn. I don't think he is scum, as I can't think of why a scum would go ahead and say I'M SURE HES GUILTY, to backing off entirely. Scum generally take hesitant postures that lack commitment and conviction. I've read DarthPunk's filter carefully and wasn't able to detect anything too suspicious or compromising, as he has been making accusations and backing them up with well explained arguments. Also, both him and goodkarma have been making tons of pro-town and meaningful accusations. If one of them is mafia, it is not in this round that we will be able to lynch them unless we can pick up on something not yet noted. Stutters and Obvious to come. I'm sleepy and have to wake up early tomorrow. Please, be active, let me know what you think of this post and contribute your own ideas and suspicions as well. On August 17 2012 05:14 Z-BosoN wrote: My current lists of suspects stands as: 1) thrawn2112 2) YourHarry 3) Shady Sands Due to all of my previous reasoning, and the fact that none of them have given me reason to retract my suspicions. However, I am very firm on my decision to execute lynchers. Day one is filled with circumstantial evidence and is very easy to make wrong conclusions, and the probability of a miss-lynch is very high. What we DO know for CERTAIN is that lurkers are way more prejudicial to the town, because we cannot have decent reads on them. This is a game of reasoning and deduction, but for that, we need DATA, INFORMATION, which lurkers fail to provide. For this first day, since I don't think any of the suspicions so far are conclusive, I will vote for a lurker. We have Golbat , Stutters, and JHuyt who have been balls-out lurkers. I say we should lynch one of those. Now, speaking for myself, how will I choose? Let's take a brief look at their history: Golbat Has said nothing. Has two posts. He is lurker number one. He briefly accused thrawn with little evidence, threw some dirt on Shady, YourHarry and Solar. If we lynch him and he turns out townie, we will not have any new leads from that information, but will be down a useless townie. If we lynch him and he turns out scum, that will be great for us, but we will still have no leads. His accusations could just as easily be his scum buddies due to the fact that he hasn't done any sort of analysis on anybody. I would go even so far as to think that he will be mod-killed, due to not voting. If he suddenly posts now, we will have VERY strong reason to lynch him the next day, because posting some crap early on and disappearing until close to the deadline is a Strong Strong indicator of SCUM. Onward. Stutters He begins by agreeing that the discussion regarding SK is a waste of time he doesn't raise suspicion, doesn't do any investigative move, just says that and goes on to tell Solar to post better. Then he makes a longer post, telling Solar once again to stop with the trolling (which is fine, he was getting annoying), and making a small, non-compromising case against Shady. States some facts, then moves on, without taking an aggressive stance. Asks why getting filters is necessary (I had already mentioned this...). And just like that, he's gone. Basically he is on the same boat as Golbat. If we lynch him and he turns out townie, we will have lynched a semi-useless townie. If we lynch him and he turns out scum, great! But still no real info. So that leaves... JHyut Who begins with similar obvious cases against Solar, Shady, and YourHarry. Escapes having to post anything else saying "I'm sorry, but I don't think I can be of any more use until new evidence is posted.". Then goes on to FOS thrawn, not using any original evidence. Without explaining anything, says that Archrun was not scum, says that thrawn is not scum, then votes for Shady Sands, without explaining, and just like that he's gone. If we lynch him and he turns out townie, then thrawn will have some weight off his shoulders. He would have ignored accusing a greenie based on his lack of observation. Golbat will look about the same, because he was ignored alongside an innocent and we may figure something out on ArchRun as well (I still have to read more carefully his posts). If we lynch him and he turns out scum, Archrun and thrawn2112 will not look so good. He INSTANTLY dropped his suspicion of both these players, and this is resonated by my case against Thrawn, where I note a fishy situation between thrawn and either golbat,archrun and/or jhuyt. Here is a snippet so you guys don't have to go all the way back: + Show Spoiler + You made an FOS on Archrun by saying that he only had made 3 posts and had no scumhunting. However, you completely ignored Golbat, who only has 2 posts with one-dimensional scumhunting claims, being that the FIRST thing he says is that you are the scummiest player, to which you respond with: Is this something I need to defend myself on? I am not sober right now so I don't think I could type a clear response till I wake up. Going to sleep now, I hope to wake up and see some more posts. And you don't mention it again. This seems to me to be a clear, 100% dodge. You give IRL excuses and forget about it, even hinting that you don't feel the need to answer it. You ignore Golbat not once, but twice. A townie thrawn would definitely bother defending himself to a direct attack such as that, and would try to policy-lynch both Golbat and ArchRun. However, you also didn't call JHyut, who also has 2 posts and even worse in quality than both the mentioned posters. Why mention only ArchRun and not Golbat, who called you out or JHyut? Either this is incredibly sloppy play, or you have a scum partner. If we assume the latter, then I can only think of: 1) You are trying to distract people from Golbat by making other accusations, and completely ignored JHyut. 2) You are trying to bus your partner ArchRun so as to draw away suspicion from yourself in case he comes up red. And, you completely ignored JHyut and Golbat. 3) You don't want to call out three people at once for whatever reason and chose someone other than your scum partner. I find this Highly Suspicious. That being said, I think right now the general lurkyness of JHuyt + the lack of quality of his posts + this weird switch of votes + his affiliation with Golbat and the amount of information we can make out if he is lynched, I will go with ##Vote JHuyt PS: I noticed I got sniped. Dangerous timing there, Stutters. I will not bother changing my post, because I have to head out, but I think I will be able to log on near the deadline. Hope I sounded reasonable enough. Great job increasing the discussion in this eery end of D1! Here is Z-Boson this game On November 16 2012 03:34 Z-BosoN wrote: Allright, out of the bunch, I'd be happiest with a crossfire lynch. I don't doubt his internet connection problems, but my main problems are of these two posts: On November 14 2012 14:11 Crossfire99 wrote: I never want to get that behind ever again. Ugh. That was painful. So many useless posts. I can see why blazing really hated me for posting so much fluff in WLIIA. That's what makes it so weird this game, though. He's posted so much stuff that doesn't matter and just takes up space. In WLIIA, he came down on me so hard because of the amount of fluff I posted. He clearly knows it is anti-town, yet still does it here. I don't understand it at all. If he hadn't claimed jailkeeper (which I'm still not sure I buy), I probably would be voting for him right now. I'm willing to give him a little time to shape up his posting, but if he hasn't done it by then, I want to lynch him. I am also very confused by strong. I played with him both when he was town and scum, and he never played like this. I believe someone was talking about him possibly changing his meta because it was too obvious when he was scum. Basically he is playing weirdly and has a decent number of fluff posts. This makes me suspicious of him. I find him less scummy than blazing, though. Other than that though, I just need to digest everything. I have a serious headache now after reading all of that. If you want me to respond to something ask me a question. Otherwise I'll probably come in here sometime after I wake up tomorrow and comment on the top cases. I don't know of any other way of making sense of everything that is happening without going crazy. Oh and for anyone who is wondering why I chose blazing and strong to single out: blazing really stuck out with the amount of fluff he's been posting plus I know how he plays town because he just did it in WLIIA; as for strong , I've played with him in my last two games, plus I just figured out that he was scum in our last game, WLIIA, so his play is fresh on my mind. Bolded I read as: "look at me guys!!! I'm trying super hard to read everything!!" Underlined I read as an overexplanation to him posting his reads, which I find pretty scummy. He does that again here: On November 15 2012 10:35 Crossfire99 wrote: On November 15 2012 10:25 iamperfection wrote: Crossfire if you run away right now i will be super pissed the next 30 or so min of your belong in this thread right now. I am freaking in this thread. I have to catch up on a lot of stuff. I am sorry I wasn't here. I planned to be here and spend time on this game, but then my internet crapped out. I don't know how else I can apologize for this. Anyway, I like this case by marv. + Show Spoiler + On November 15 2012 08:58 marvellosity wrote: Z-Boson Metarelated stuff. Let's a gogo. First of all, here's a sample post from him playing scum in Newbie XXIV. You'll have to excuse the length, but the point is it's length and effort. Show nested quote + On August 22 2012 02:38 Z-BosoN wrote: @goodkarma Well that was quick. Let me see if I understand. Now, in day 3, in a MYLO situation, you propose to. On August 21 2012 09:16 goodkarma wrote: Okay then. We need to be active today, and I'm wasting no time in getting started: @Golbat: You have a lot of explaining to do for your lurking, so please start there. Also, if you would kindly explain this quote: On August 18 2012 15:59 Golbat wrote: On August 18 2012 15:50 DarthPunk wrote: On August 18 2012 15:32 Golbat wrote: On August 18 2012 15:19 DarthPunk wrote: On August 18 2012 15:10 Golbat wrote: On August 18 2012 12:55 goodkarma wrote: @YourHarry: Any suggestions as to who this someone else is that we should lynch? My first thoughts are either Orchrow or you. You seem to be very interested in keeping thrawn alive as long as possible... I suggest you start making some meaningful suggestions as to who you feel looks scummier. And it would also be helpful if you commented on people's most recent cases against thrawn, Orchrow, and yourself instead of continuing to strive to keep Thrawn alive. There are situations here where the vigi still shouldn't claim. Like what if there is an sk, but the vigi hasn't used his shot yet? A vigi counter claim here would be terrible, as he could wind up rb'ed by scum and NK'ed before he can do anything. And if we wait, who's to say town doesn't get a successful medic save or rb? Or that scum or the sk (if he exists) doesn't just sit back and do nothing for one night? There's a few different ways that there could be an sk but fewer than two night kills. Waiting achieves nothing. My read, and the read of several of us here, is that thrawn is scum. It's time for him to go. Read through the case points against him, and show us why you feel he might be town. It's more productive than your WIFOM defense of thrawn you're presenting now. I am in agreement that we should just lynch thrawn here. We seem to have caught a scum or even two, I think if thrawn flips scum then YH is almost certainly scum. You are lurking pretty hard buddy. I would also like to ask Ochrow, solarsail Z-Boson and Stutters to increase their contributions. I agree i'm lurking, but I feel that I have at least contributed well for my sparse filter. I made my case on thrawn, and cast my vote. When I see something worth discussing I mention it. I may not be living in the thread as hard as you, harry or thrawn, but at least I've contributed. What do you suggest I do to be less "lurky"? Make a shit case on someone in a misguided attempt to look active? Last game it got me lynched and cost town a vigi shot. I'll go over the thread again and see if anything catches my eye, but I don't really see a case I can make that hasn't already been made ATM. At the very least i'll prod some people in my next couple posts. Why so defensive? I understand that you got lynched for being over eager in XXII but your posting is markedly different than what I experienced there (although you were only alive for 24 hours so not much of a meta to read ) my post was not a personal attack but rather a call to all lurkers to contribute something. Apologies. I didn't mean to come off as defensive, just that I'm not intentionally lurking, just not posting uselessly. in my last game I died before I could make a big contribution, and I just want to help catch a scum before I die this game. Now is the time to step it up I guess. I've already explained what I felt was scummy about this, but in case you need a reminder: You seem more interested in staying alive right now than in actually scumhunting. "Not posting uselessly" is not an excuse for not posting at all. Even one one-line post explaining your absence would have been useful at this point, and you wouldn't even contribute that. You argue to not be lurking intentionally, but I would argue that yes, lurking for 48 hours is rather intentional. There's no way that you haven't thought up anything worthwhile in that time unless if between then and now you have forgotten altogether about this thread. And why would you do that if you want to "make a big contribution" that leads to the lynch of a scum? One more question: Why did you tunnel Thrawn so hard? ##Vote: Golbat Wait a minute. This is do or die for the town. You plan to consolidate your vote on someone who barely has any information on him and has been a hardcore lurker since day one? Because he tunneled thrawn, as if you didn't? Oh wait, that's right, you had a very sudden change of heart. But then, you go on and say that: (...)And finally there's the final vote count for day 2. I currently believe the Thrawn mislynch had heavy scum support. One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support. If you look at the votes, and see where those who have established themselves as town have voted, I'm sure you'll agree the YourHarry lynch had some reputable town support behind it. And all of the current scum suspects are on the Thrawn mislynch.: Well that's a very convenient argument, to go along with your name not being on that list. Drop in the bomb, wait for people to sheep you, then escape, no compromises. It's also ironic you didn't think of it before, when everybody wanted Shady Sands dead, who was the top poster at the moment. I'll go ahead and post the day one votes. ShadySands (5): SolarSail, thrawn2112, SolarSail, mkfuba07, Jhuyt, YourHarry, YourHarry SolarSail (0): YourHarry thrawn2112 (4): YourHarry ShadySands, Archrun, DarthPunk, Golbat goodkarma (0): YourHarry Jhuyt (2): goodkarma, Z-Boson Archrun (2): Ochrow, Stutters695. Ochrow, YourHarry Same argument you used. Look at that, everyone on ShadySands list must be quite the suspects of being scum. Because, "One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support." Except that he wasn't scum was he? This is because this argument is very weak. It only becomes suspicious when one target has a LOT of scumminess on him and a LOT of posts against him while the other looks so innocent and barely has anything substatial on him. This is not the case, because thrawn had a huge wall of text against him, not only the one you posted, but also the one that I did as well. DP also thought he was scum, and I will agree that the case against thrawn was fairly powerful. DAY ONE should have been the time we should have lynched lurkers. DAY TWO, maybe. Not day 3, with a do or die scenario, against someone who, as Obvious pointed out, is clearly not giving a rat's ass about this game. This day will be the target with the greatest case against him. I really don't like how quick it was for you to vote on golbat, and how quick some people seemed to sheep you. Regarding YourHarry, you went from him possibly being your third suspect to him being your main suspect with this post: On August 21 2012 17:59 goodkarma wrote: Regarding YourHarry: Sometimes the most obvious scum is the hardest to spot. YourHarry has a "meta" for sporadic and unpredictable play. But however strange, or different, or unpredictable his play is, if you were to look at the motivation behind his play, you can determine his alignment. With YourHarry, actions speak louder than words: -First, YourHarry is fond of withholding information from us. YourHarry starts the game by making a weak WIFOM case on me, claiming if I'm not a mason I'm scum. He withholds his read on me for a long time until pressured to provide it, and while here maybe you could argue he had some justification, this is a recurring theme. Over and over again he's done this. With this "mason case," with vote swapping history, with providing reads on certain people (most recently, Golbat). This behavior is clearly anti-town. Obviously withholding information would be advantageous for scum as it could make it harder for others to get a good read on him. Could a townie also do this? Maybe, but this is just the tip of the iceberg. -YourHarry is a fan of last-minute vote swapping. He has now twice last minute switched his vote to secure the mislynch of the top candidate. This behavior simply can't be ignored anymore. There is clear scum motivation here. -The use of WIFOM first, actual use of reasoning when pressured later. He already did that today with Golbat. He started today with soft defending him, and then decides he will actually "read his filter." I'll say that again: only after defending Golbat with WIFOM does he decide it's a good idea to read his filter. Then, finally, he decides to actually present a case which is in fact against Golbat. In other words, he's demonstrated a lack of interest in actually contributing meaningfully to scumhunting. -On top of this, today he has focused a large degree of effort on getting people to role claim. If my theory on scum's motive for the night kills is to be believed, YourHarry is trying to draw important town roles out of hiding as easy scum targets. There's loads of scum motivation to be seen behind YourHarry's actions, and there are several cases that have already been made against him. Yet somehow he seems to have avoided getting lynched. My biggest issue with lynching him, and why he hasn't been higher on my "scum reads," has been that his play is consistently bad, and it would be easy to mislynch a town YourHarry. But if you look at his actions, they fit a scum agenda. And finally there's the final vote count for day 2. I currently believe the Thrawn mislynch had heavy scum support. One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support. If you look at the votes, and see where those who have established themselves as town have voted, I'm sure you'll agree the YourHarry lynch had some reputable town support behind it. And all of the current scum suspects are on the Thrawn mislynch.: Directly from the official end of day 2 post (minus the blue text): thrawn2112, as VisceraEyes, vigilante, was lynched! + Show Spoiler [Final Vote Count] + Final Vote Count: Thrawn2112 (5): Obvious.660 (1): goodkarma, YourHarry (3): DarthPunk, Jhuyt, Stutters695 goodkarma (0): Jhuyt (1): thrawn2112, YourHarry, right now you're my top scum read. ##Unvote ##Vote: YourHarry I encourage everyone to put together their reads, as there's still time for you to express your viewpoints before we consolidate our vote in the last 24 hours of the day. And obviously supporting or dissenting case points towards this case would be much appreciated. Your arguments are nothing new, it's what has been stated on YourHarry since the beggining of time. The only thing new that you add is that he is suspiciously wanting everyone to roleclaim. But why do you focus on him, and blatantly ignore DarthPunk's same remark: On August 21 2012 13:49 DarthPunk wrote: On August 21 2012 13:24 YourHarry wrote: Good point on scums not having time to respond to your latest post. But there were common suspicions between Golbat and Jhyut that were posted hours before deadline: Z-boson's suspect list went: me, Jhyut, Golbat Darth's suspect list: Golbat, Jhyut, Solar GK's suspect list: Golbat, Jhyut, Obvious Maybe WIFOM. But to me, I still can't get my head around scum Golbat lynching town Jhyut, who seemed to be scum Golbat's only way out. Regards to no lynching, the only caveat for choosing to lynch today rather than tomorrow is the medic save. But if we decide to go ahead with our lynch today, I think claiming today is a good idea. We NEED a scum lynch today. And everyone claiming would make that much easier. Sorry I am kind of busy and am not following the thread right now. but I agree with a mass claim. we are at the stage of the game where we need as much info as possible because we cannot afford a mistake. I feel really out of my depth here, scum are either afk winning or playing really well. The same guy in which you solemnly confided your trust in your "will": (...)I have played with DarthPunk before, and I’ve seen his scum play. He has been 10 times more proactive than he was in that game about sharing scum reads and I am convinced he is legitimately searching for scum this time around. Add to that that he’s come independently to similar reads as myself, and I feel he is my strongest town read right now. So all of you get behind him as your leader and consolidate your vote under him. There is a small (note: slim) chance that he’s scum, but you’re going to have to live with that. To have a chance of winning town needs to consolidate its vote and this is the best way to do this. Come the next night, I leave it to Darthpunk to leave his successor in a will similar to this one should he also get NK’ed. Also, you say these incredibly serious accusations: (...)There's loads of scum motivation to be seen behind YourHarry's actions, and there are several cases that have already been made against him. Yet somehow he seems to have avoided getting lynched. My biggest issue with lynching him, and why he hasn't been higher on my "scum reads," has been that his play is consistently bad, and it would be easy to mislynch a town YourHarry. But if you look at his actions, they fit a scum agenda. And you don't bother explaining what you mean. You just sheep around with the main case that has already been made, add something meaningless (if you want to give it meaning, please go ahead and attack DarthPunk as well), then hint at the most serious accusations you can possibly make and don't go ahead and explain what you mean. I agree wholeheartedly that YourHarry is scum, you can go ahead and check that in my filter , but the way you write this and the arguments you use make me feel very suspicious that you may be scum as well. Now I see that the only reason I had lifted my suspicions of you were mainly WIFOM, but your latest actions have definitely raised my eyebrows. Right now is the easiest time for a scum to slip, because any small mistake now will not slip by so easily. One more thing, you say that the night kills were not discussed in detail. Read my filter, if you will. Actually this night's night kills is what is giving me additional ammo on YH. That soon to come. ##FoS goodkarma Also, here is Z-Boson's filter from that game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359489&user=28495 Notice there are a large number of big posts. Big posts with certain conclusions. All the time. Much as here. What's missing in Z-Boson's play this game? Show nested quote + On October 21 2012 22:46 Z-BosoN wrote: On October 21 2012 13:13 DarthPunk wrote: Also his defense each time is oh you must be scum and trying to trick me. Nothing townie about it. And your 'meta' read is bleh. Haha, you don't say, eh DP? Show nested quote + On October 22 2012 01:03 Z-BosoN wrote: On October 22 2012 00:52 DarthPunk wrote: Also ZB. Postgame I would like to go through how you make such accurate reads on me all the time. It get's frustrating as scum. (and also hilarious) Oh-oh. This obviously-I'm-town post comes mostly from scum DP. Don't get so confident, I'm not dead sure on you yet! Show nested quote + On October 22 2012 01:08 Z-BosoN wrote: Sniped by austin. There we are, finally. Now waiting for the two days of unforgiving tunneling from him Hello Keirathi! How goes your scum life? Any thoughts you would like to trouble us with? Show nested quote + On October 22 2012 03:53 Z-BosoN wrote: k k Well, you really think he is scum and should insta-die before he's even had a chance to defend himself? I'm uncomfortable sending him to his grave like this... I'd like to know if you are scum. Think about it. It's the pro-town thing to do. If you are scum, it's pro-town because town will lynch a scum. If you are town, then it's pro-town that we don't have to kill you. Tell us Show nested quote + On September 30 2012 13:32 Z-BosoN wrote: Oh god. Is there anyways I can mega-vote him? Show nested quote + On September 30 2012 13:52 Z-BosoN wrote: I think someone has some real issues. Does liquid city have a psych ward? Show nested quote + On October 02 2012 11:04 Z-BosoN wrote: Omfg austin really loves me. I'm just going to ignore you this time, I make an oath that your bad arguments will bother me no more. You also seem a lot more scummy this game. At least on LVII your arguments made sense, from an ape's perspective. Right now you just seem desperate. I, Z-BosoN, solemnly swear, to never defend myself from austin's scrutiny ever again. Show nested quote + On October 22 2012 05:24 Z-BosoN wrote: Austin, holy shit. For the first time ever, I've successfully agreed with every single thing in your post, every single thing. /applauds Due to recent events though, Hapa is coming off pretty suspicious to me. This is a selection of quotes from GSL3 and Liquid City. I paste them all here to demonstrate Z-Boson's ability, and indeed propensity, to throw in light-hearted comments. He's not all serious all the time. Look at his filter here. Can you find that? At all? No, not really. It's completely absent. Arguably, this is it: Show nested quote + On November 13 2012 09:41 Z-BosoN wrote: Regarding DarthPunk, don't worry, if he's scum, I'll figure it out Right at the beginning. I find his attitude towards DP... not townie. There's a lack of interaction from Z-Bo towards DarthPunk that I wouldn't expect from townie Z-Bo. Show nested quote + On November 13 2012 11:20 Z-BosoN wrote: DP, that's the second time you've voted for him without saying why. This won't do. It goes from the above, to: Show nested quote + On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote: Why not DarthPunk? He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though. He finds him a 'good lynch', but he makes it clear that he's not using the referring to self as mislynch thing as scum. Is it that he's bitchy? Is that a scumtell? Who knows. He's "interested" to see how he goes in Day 2 though. The wording is just... ick. Show nested quote + On November 15 2012 08:21 Z-BosoN wrote: Had some internet problems.. Luckily it was on control C. In reply to marvs other post: On November 15 2012 06:14 marvellosity wrote: On November 15 2012 06:13 Z-BosoN wrote: On November 15 2012 06:06 marvellosity wrote: On November 15 2012 05:16 Z-BosoN wrote: Why not DarthPunk? He hasn't posted much. I find him a good lynch, nevertheless. He is referring himself as a mislynch, YET AGAIN. And I've already told him he loves doing that as scum. I have no idea why he's doing it, but I'm not going to use that as a tell. I don't like how bitchy he is being, focusing most of his time in crying and whining instead of scumhunting. I'm interested to see how he goes in day two though. i hate this. what's your read on him and why? He can definitely be scum. The reasoning is above. I'd rather lynch Hopeless. Perhaps instead of "Why not DP?" just read "DP" and interpret that as a secondary assessment. I'd rather lynch Hopeless though, my post says it all. I find it interesting how you hated my bit on DP, instead of my bit on debears, your main lynch candidate. Is there anything else you want to add while you are at it? Do you agree with what I said? I'm finding you kinda scummy all of a sudden actually. "He can definitely be scum" is not a read, by the way. Anyone can definitely be scum. Isn't it fucking obvious that I mean that to me he has a good chance of being scum, especially given what I've written on him? 10x better than your "I'm finding you kinda scummy" which adds shit to the thread. If Hopeless is a 10, DP is a 7, go with that. Try answering the question now? I phrased it very clearly and I find it important enough that I insist. Anyways, Hopeless´s meta explanation makes sense, and that was my main issue with him. Right now I´d rather lynch DarthPunk. Gonna let marv finish to see if he will/will not change my mind. ##Unvote There's weird things going on in this post. "If hopeless is a 10" to "his meta explanation makes sense". Generally, given Z-Bo's intimate familiarity with DP's play and his meta, there seems to be no discernable effort to make any read on him on that basis. Z-Boson is calling DarthPunk scum right now, but there's no supporting evidence of games previously played. I don't buy it. Also I bolded that other line where he says I should answer just because I find the wording completely unnatural. "I find it important enough that I insist". None of this play looks like Z-Boson's town play. When he is townie, he is very indecisive about who he wants to lynch. Just look at his filter in GSL3 or Liquid city. Liquid City his vote jumped around more times than I can count and with great uncertainty, and even his final vote he still seemed clueless. And in GSL3 he agonised for days on everyone before finally voting for someone. Here there is no... communication with town, trying to figure things out properly. It's BAM, BlazingHand is scum. He pursues BlazingHand - and make no mistake, he can pursue very well as scum, check the filter I gave you. Then when BH is off the table, he comes back today with BAM, Hopeless is scum. As quoted there's the absence of Z-bo interacting in a lighthearted manner with town that I am familiar with. His filter is short, with long posts, rather than longer, with lots of short posts figuring things out. ##Vote: Z-Boson Therefore, I am switching my vote from bh who i still think is scummy, but isn't going to get lynched today, to zboson. ##Vote Z-boson That's probably the safest route for scum. Why go ahead and dip yourself amongst a complete clusterfuck of people trying to figure shit out, when you can just sheep marv, gtfo, and feel all safe? He indicates he was present later on, when he says. On November 15 2012 11:15 Crossfire99 wrote: Wow. Good job everyone who voted for him. I think that is first time I've ever seen a last minute vote switch work. I always thought they never worked. Good job. Time to go read his filter. So yea, I'd be safest with lynching him tomorrow. thrawn seems waaaaaay off his meta. He's made some long posts, trying to be all open and shit, but that doesn't give me a town read of him. Thrawn is usually much more investigative, and much more present as town. (See marv, I think this applies much better to thrawn than on me). I have to go soon, but I'll read him better when I get back. Strongandbig is trying hard to be a grush57. That's pretty much it. Can't conclude shit from reading his filter. He's evidently aware of his meta as scum, and could very well be trying to do the opposite here, but imo he's beign completely useless. marvellosity I still have to read his filter better. I didn't like the fact that he completely ignored my defense and asked me why I seemed so sure of everything, something he really didn't include in his original case. Don't want to lynch him day2 though. If he's scum, he's trying a loooot harder than on GSL. On November 14 2012 05:14 Z-BosoN wrote: On iamp I hated the reason for which he voted on me, but I share marv's stance on how he's drawing out unnecessary attention. The only thing that actually bugs me is his interaction with BH. As a townie, if I agree with someone, the last thing I would be thinking is: On November 14 2012 01:02 iamperfection wrote: On November 14 2012 01:00 marvellosity wrote: Rock Band or Whose Line are recent town games of his. do you know any of his scum games? the search function isn't helping me find all his games. What debears mentions is his radical switch from >>Hunting BH<< to >>Agreeing with BH<<. Except that this post I quoted is immediately after his vote on me. Here, he still shows interest in finding out if BH is scum, someone he had just agreed with. That being said, he is being incredibly flip-floppy, which I'm finding extremely weird. I don't think this is enough to peg him as scum though, I can imagine him as town being suspicious of everyone. I find BH's play to be much, much more appaling. I have only played one game with him, so I'm not super aware of his meta, but it is totally different than his Liquid City one. Here he has made one major case, a weak one at that, and established an unusally high amount of certainty on it, calling it "a masterpiece". That being said, right now I'm interested in debears, Crossfire, and thrawn. Crossfire is rather obvious, he's not posted and is heading off towards a modkill/replacement. I'm not considering him a lynch choice until he actually decides to post. Thrawn, however, is unusually inactive. I remember him as townie being much, much more active than this. He's actually managed to make one entrance post: [ http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=19#361 ]. Shows some suspicions, ask some questions, and is gone like the wind. debears has also raised my eyebrows in this start of the game. He's been extremely fluffy in the beggining, and no matter what his meta is, that's not pro-town. Also, I don't like the feel of his case against iamp. He's establishing himself on some of hapa's arguments, but does not deal with this: On November 14 2012 02:53 marvellosity wrote: I don't understand why it's scum play. 1. Believes miller claim 2. Later decides he's scummy The scum motivation is what? He wanted a case to jump on? Is that it? Which to me feels like a natural step in accusing iamp of being scum. The most he's said is that he didn't agree with it, and I don't find that satisfactory at all given that he is pursuing a scumread. The only argument he added was "guilty conscience", to which I find very weak, as I don't find any motive for iamp to pursue something he doesn't think is strong. Anyways, had debears actually voted based on that, I would have been much more suspicious. Right now he just has my eyebrows raised. @debears I'd like you to expand a bit more on your read of iamp. 1) I get that you think he has bad reasoning for his switch. Why does this make him scummy? Bad reasoning =/= scummy unless it has scum motivation. What is the scum motivation of his actions? 2) Here you try to make this contrast: 1) He cares about how the town is viewing him 2) He doesn't believe his reasoning is that great for his vote -note the "well I think his actions speak louder". It's a weak statement. Not a strong one, (a strong one) which should be warranted when you change your read from town to scum in literally no time I've mentioned this above, but I'd like you to answer it. Why would scum iamp establish a vote for which he himself believes is not based on good reasoning? I don't understand why you are finding this scummy. Interpret this as: me not buying it. Now tell me that this is Town ZB and not scum ZB. You'll also note his town play (GSL III) is totes different Yes. His town play is very, very different in pretty much the exact way you mentioned in your case against him. There is no doubt in my mind that ZB is the last scum. Show nested quote + On November 18 2012 10:19 DarthPunk wrote: On November 18 2012 10:17 iamperfection wrote: On November 18 2012 10:15 DarthPunk wrote: Nah. I want ZB to flip. Then if the game is still going we can check out that wall of text of his. its not that long read it bro I did read it. I still think he is scum. If he is town it holds more value for me than it does currently. It looks exactly how he thinks it would. A mechanism to escape from his lynch. It only becomes useful when he dies. There is no one I want to lynch over ZB. And the only person I would consider is clarity. The thing that I really don't like is his insistence on Z-BosoN meta. That was DarthPunk main point against Z-Boson, please check the conclusions for all his cases and you can find something like "this is not how town Z-B plays". And I really don't like this because Z-Bo had given a reasonable and honest explanation for the change in his meta and has given us elements to back it up. These points show that DarthPunk was using double-standards and confirmation bias wrt Z-Boson. Part III --- The Comeback of the Scum After Z-Boson flips, DarthPunk has been quiet for a while at the exception of a few posts. I found this one which could be the perfect post to set up a series of mislynches. Show nested quote + On November 19 2012 15:10 DarthPunk wrote: lynch Djo clarity and S&B and I doubt we could lose this.THis game is a pain in the arse to keep up with. Far too many posts most of them are useless and are just repeating what has already been said. I am going to look through the filters of those three players and see if I can come up with anything. Before attacking me, he has misinterpreted and twisted my posts and accused me to push lynch baits. I want you to understand that the lynch bait is me, and that scum DP is pushing my mislynch right now. I know I look bad because of the setup speculation but I was honestly thinking that it would solve the game. And I hope you realize that it could have if debears had lived with green or red checks to share with us. Anyway, I've given strong townreads on Kickstart and Iamp here in this post Show nested quote + On November 20 2012 03:01 Djodref wrote: <snip> @ Hopeless At the moment, my strongest town reads are Iamp and Kickstart. Iamp looks the most concerned about this game with Clarity. He has presented good contributions and promotes a good town atmosphere for the discussion. He has shown interest and provided his insights on almost everything what was going on in the thread. Moreover, I don't feel that his posts are forced. He just looks genuinely town. He is the guy I would never want to lynch. Kickstart, even he doesn't participate enough at my taste, really gives me a first time town player feeling. I'm just coming out of my newbie games and they are full of games like him. If he was scum, I think he would have produced some Crossfire-like looking posts on day1 and that he would have already broke into pieces at this point. He needs to get free of the "I'm going to get suspicious if I post burden". I think that he could show clearly that he is town if he could post more freely. I'll give him "carte blanche" for his postings until we get at MYLO, if we have to come to this, which I doubt. I might be stupid to insist on this point, but I'm going to eat my hat if Kickstart has sniped debears. The last scum has to be an experienced player in my opinion. and I still get post like this from DP Show nested quote + On November 20 2012 21:18 DarthPunk wrote: Djo. Explain in your own words why clarity and Perfection are town reads. Show nested quote + On November 20 2012 20:29 DarthPunk wrote: On November 20 2012 20:20 Djodref wrote: On November 20 2012 19:56 DarthPunk wrote: On November 20 2012 10:58 iamperfection wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=381440¤tpage=60#1192 so i was going though his filter again making a case but i ran into this post. Scum i don't think would call out his own member that quickly would he? im having a hard time getting past this especially when cross had little attention on him. You should know this s not true. Cross was a weak player.No doubt they were worried about him in the QT. he would be an ideal bus. Oh I am back BTW and catching up with the thread. Also everyone calline out my inactivity GTFO. I have a 10 page filter day two. I have pushed my scum reads. Am I playing badly? Sure I am. I have zero motivation right now. It feels like I am doing an assignment. But here I am reading the thread when I have no inclination to do so. There are some spammers in this game who have fucking mass posted with little fucking content of value. (clarity) Who make this game a chore to read. I have a strong town read on S&B he is a mislynch. I want to lynch clarity or DJO. I am total lynch bait right now. Anyone pushing a lynch on me is fucking suspicious. Enter DJo. Subtly wanting to push me and fucking Iamp. like seriously pushing the inactives who he should have a damn town read on?? anyway. Now I am back reading the thread. Heaps of shit is pissing me off which is motivating me in a way. so that is good I guess. Top Scum reads. Clarity, Djo. Cool story bro... I have some doubts about you and they grow larger when you are clearly twisting what I have said. I doubt you can show that I want to push iamp because that it simply a lie. Sup Scumzor. I can find the post or did I misread the part where you asked BH to comment on both Iamp and myself after heavily implying you had altered your town read on me? I can guarentee that if he had said he thought we were scummy you would have jumped all over us. LOL. That you were feeling out a wagon on lynch-bait was so fucking transparent dude. And as I am reading through your filter there is very little that suggests TOWN to me. Show nested quote + On November 20 2012 22:11 DarthPunk wrote: On November 20 2012 22:08 Djodref wrote: On November 20 2012 22:02 DarthPunk wrote: On November 20 2012 21:53 Clarity_nl wrote: I was the one who asked him what he thought of kickstart, and now you're saying it's bad he made a post on kickstart? You say he's wishy washy, but there is a fucking conclusion at the end of that post. He points out all his observations and makes a conclusion. It was wishy washy. But I don't really care what you think. The conclusion was that he was a newbie. And that was not difficult to see for anyone. Some conclusion right there. It is worse for him that you asked him to make that post because that was his only real analysis or contribution on anything even remotely consisting of scum hunting. Without that he has done none whatsoever. That's a lie. I have clearly stated what was my read on him after my analysis. Newbie town it is. Ok I must have misread. regardless, the way in which you constructed that post was wishy-washy. here is why he might be town Here is why he could be scum I think he is newbie town. Which for all intents and purposes leaves a caveat, as newbie town is a lot closer to scummy than a 'Strong' town read. Either way he is not reading the thread properly or he wants to discredit me while my attention is over him. Our exchanges about Kickstart clearly showed that he is twisting my stance about Kickstart, which has been clear since the beginning. Conclusion Bussing Hapa
Z-Boson lynch
The Comeback
##Unvote ##Vote DartPunk Why must I be lynched today if we want to win? We can still lynch scum If S&B flips green. That's true, but you could kill me tonight because I'm the only one believe in the fact that you are scum. I don't think that iamp. Kickstart or Hopeless would realize that they have to lynch you if I'm not here. | ||
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 22 2012 16:22 iamperfection wrote: Show nested quote + On November 22 2012 16:20 Djodref wrote: When is going to be "after Thanksgiving" ? I'm French and I live in South Korea, I've never participated in any Thanksgiving and I'm not ever sure what you guys are supposed to do during that time except than eating a turkey... tomorrow you guys should make yourself useful and solve the game while im gone ok? thanks You can count on me | ||
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I don't want to fight for days with DP because I don't really enjoy it and I don't think that I would be able to have him lynched at the end. | ||
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props to Z-Bo and DP for figuring the shit out ! | ||
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On November 22 2012 17:05 iamperfection wrote: I wanted to see you and dp dance for my amusement Yeah but I cannot do this and play seriously in Crono trigger at the same time Plus it affects my motivation because I would have to dance for 5 days and then loose.. Would you have lynched DP over me in MYLO or LYLO ? I seriously doubt it | ||
Djodref
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Then I've realized that I had no choice but to kill the Cop that Z-Bo was talking about. I've found the terrible breadcrumbs of debears (MARIO PARTY in all caps, lol) and killed him. I would have expected to get the confirmation of a SK while extrapolating so I could maybe win this game. Or a Cop with only one green check. I was hoping that my behavior would look suicidal enough for a scum to convince you that I couldn't be one. | ||
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On November 22 2012 17:17 DarthPunk wrote: LoL really obvious. Nice try though. <3 Regarding the claims of Z-Bo and BH, I really think that they had the same value in this particular situation. I understand that mafia likes to fake claim miller. Crossfire mentioned this possibility is the scum QT. But in this particular setup, this would have been a VERY BAD MOVE. My conclusion is that outright fake claiming miller as mafia is not a good move, and you should always consider the setup before doing this kind of things. In our case, the scum team should have realized that the town was stacked with blues. I consider Miller as a blue role, so in total we had 4 blues in this game for town. Anyway, you stuck to real scum hunting, and that's how you figured things out. So congrats ! On a side note, I'm quite surprised that nobody took Z-Bo last will seriously. His thrawn case was quite spot on. | ||
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I think that S&B would have been lynched today no matter what. So I declare that I managed to go into MYLO ^^ Remember that France never concedes ! I'm reading the obsQT to see how it was so obvious that I was scum | ||
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On November 22 2012 17:27 DarthPunk wrote: I would NOT have conceded in your situation Djo. I think you could have potentially convinced Iamp and Hopeless to lynch me. But it was going to be a rough ride for you. No doubt. Yeah, I think it could have been done but still... I have another game running right now It was more counting on them being bad than me being good You are a pain to deal with I don't enjoy framing people in a frontal way like I did with you | ||
Djodref
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On November 22 2012 17:30 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 22 2012 17:28 Djodref wrote: @BH : I see... I think that S&B would have been lynched today no matter what. So I declare that I managed to go into MYLO ^^ Remember that France never concedes ! I'm reading the obsQT to see how it was so obvious that I was scum Didn't you figure it out while I was yelling why at you? My positions on Clarity and S&B were terribad, I admit it. Regarding the lack of scumhunting, I don't know, I was really liking my story about this guy who wants to solve the game with logic and setup only. I would have appreciated debears to out himself at the end of N2. | ||
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On November 22 2012 17:31 Blazinghand wrote: dude djodref you gotta pretend to scumhunt. the setup spec was scummy as hell Yeah, thanks for the advice ^^ But I was lazy and I didn't really think I was going to win this game so I did something I enjoyed | ||
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On November 22 2012 18:43 Kickstart wrote: Ah good one Djo. You woulda made it through one more night snb woulda been lycnhed, then you kill hopeless. but you were gone after that for sure. Anyways I just echo what others said that you shoulda scumhunted a bit more. The tunneling of BH and mass claim didn't sit well with me either. Anyways how did I do everyone? Other than getting supremely lazy at the end which I'm a bit ashamed of ;o Congrats for your first game ! It was not an easy game to follow-up and it's too bad that you got lazy in the end. But you really did your job, which was to convince everybody that you were town. That's the most important thing. Believe me, I would really have appreciated if you were a possible mislynch in this game. BUT YOU WERE SO FUCKING TOWNIE ! You should reevaluate your reads, because at the end, I don't know if your reasons for lynching S&B were still standing. I figured out that you were wanting to lynch me after a green flip from S&B, and given the fact that you are fucking rock wrt who you want to lynch, I don't think I could ever have won this game. GG anyways ! | ||
Djodref
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Maybe I should have at least try to get into MYLO but I was not enjoying this game anymore. The other reason is that Crono is running right now and it looks like this game is going to be intense and I didn't want to have to flame with DP for 4-5 days while playing another game. But I had fun while speculating the setup and everybody being mad about it My plan was good and pro-town. It's just that debears did a horrible job as a cop (just kidding ofc) I don't regret my decision because Hopeless and Kickstart would not have lynched DP anyway so I would just have lost later on. I think I could have played better if I did some scumhunting but there was not so many people to mislynch ^^ | ||
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Did you just see the lastest move that Kush has tried ? | ||
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On November 23 2012 03:27 Clarity_nl wrote: GG guys, I apologize on my "djo is the 4th town" at the 11th hour, that was dumb. If anyone has any advice I will gladly take it. It's ok, I was going to lose anyway... I'm glad to have fooled at least one guy | ||
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On November 23 2012 08:26 marvellosity wrote: Show nested quote + On November 23 2012 08:24 DarthPunk wrote: That being said. I think I should be banned or something. It is clearly against the rules to win by making others not want to play. And I'm pretty sure that is what happened here. No, no, this is simply not a correct reflection of events. I would have stayed until the end if I was not playing another game. I would not have enjoyed it but I may have find some satisfaction in framing you for some stupid little things. France never conceded | ||
Djodref
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Could you tell me who you were going to check N2 ? Could you also give me your real breadcrumbs ? | ||
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On November 23 2012 18:56 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On November 23 2012 18:52 Clarity_nl wrote: On November 23 2012 13:44 DarthPunk wrote: On November 23 2012 13:34 Keirathi wrote: On November 23 2012 13:31 DarthPunk wrote: On November 23 2012 12:47 Keirathi wrote: I believe I've explained how I nailed you as scum in both of your last two scum games, didn't I? In both games, you had a well thought out opinion that set you apart from the crowd, then backed off that opinion to push an easy target when it was convenient. In LC, you were the first person to pressure me at all. You had a super strong, well reasoned case about why I was scum that 100% could have gotten me lynched if you stuck to it. Instead of fighting for it, though, you backed off to push kush once he started getting pressured because it was "easier". ACME was basically the same. You gave a well-reasoned town read on kush, then when no one paid attention to it and started talking about lynching kush, you were all too happy to join in the wagon on him, despite the fact that he was still acting the same way you called him town for. However, I can't actually say how that's different from your town play, because I'm pretty unfamiliar with reading you and deciding that you're town. I think I would need to obs a game where you're town to notice if you actually do any of those things and see if my read is right. This game doesn't count, since I already knew your alignment beforehand. yeah thanks kei I'll work on that. Or just do it a bunch as town. Doing it a bunch as town is a terrible strategy Yeah but it serves the purpose of obfuscating my meta. It also serves the purpose of not being good for town. When you're town: Play to your win con, not your meta. Your town play should affect your scum play, not the other way around. ZZZ I wasn't being serious. @DarthPunk Did you check my filter in the Looney Game or not ? I'm curious to know if you found similar patterns between these two games ? I was also a very lonely scum in that game :S | ||
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