|
Townies don't try to show that they are sparking discussion. They just spark discussion.
Scum, on the other hand, worry about trying to show they are sparking discussion Feels like a scumslip to me.
|
Town does have to worry about what people think about them, but to a certain extent. Town doesn't give the illusion they are sparking discussion (by trying to show they are), etc, they just do it. If I said: "I'm trying to look like I'm scum hunting" What would that tell you?
|
On November 04 2012 07:35 Obzy wrote:
@CC
Almost every single one of your posts has focused on Djo, ever since he accused you. Encouraging discussion on Djo, directly responding to Djo, answering other people here and there and bringing discussion back to Djo.
Why haven't you voted him?
Nobody seems to have talked about CC in depth besides Djo, and both of them are almost exclusively addressing each other. My problem with CC is that he seems content to lurk and poke holes in Djo's arguments, while not really commenting outside of that.
Mr. Cheese~
I would like to see your opinions on everybody in this game so far, not just Djo. I don't know whether or not to think you're town or scum, but I've had an unsettling suspicion since early on, and I want to see you stop semi-lurking. You're active, you're able to contribute meaningfully, and people apparently heed your words because nobody has remotely looked into you besides Djo, who is scummy and receiving flak for it.
I'm going to take a break from actively reading and re-reading the thread to go play some games and enjoy the weekend - if somebody has any questions for me, I should be checking the thread periodically and will be able to answer, but I'm not going to do any more filter reading until late this evening, prob ~10-11 PST.
I'm semi-lurking, but I'm active. Holy contradiction batman. Why haven't I voted? Because when I vote, it means something. We have 24 hours to go and a lot can happen in that time.
So, basically what you want to hear is my opinion on everyone in this game so far? Okay. Here goes.
Debears - Played scum with this sexy beast last game. His opening play was very similar to last time, but he's very hard to read despite this. The entire fluff thing between him and Rad was just even more fluff that didn't really achieve anything. I'm going with null on him for now.
Rad - Got this suspicion that he's town. Seems pretty genuine to me.
Sylver - Leaning town for me, the vote on Debears wasn't uncalled for as some would call it. He gave his opinion on the most suspicious person in the thread so far, and it happened to be Debears for the FoS + fluff. Cool. Gives decent insights and opinions.
Da0ud - need more posts from him first. Seemed like he sheeped onto one of my Djo points to FoS him.
Clarity - The only thing I find suspicious is that he comes in randomly to post this to somehow bolster my point. He hadn't been around for ~40mins prior and hasn't been around since.
On November 04 2012 05:47 Clarity_nl wrote:
I noticed that too.
The distinction between "I wanted to show that I was trying to spark discussion" and "I was trying to spark discussion" is definitely a relevant one.
Alsn - Strong on opinion, FoS's his biggest scumreads right away. Calls out Debears, I like it. Nothing too bad so far.
|
Saturday nights, so wild. I'm back and I'll be giving my thoughts on stuff within the hour.
|
@Djo
I'm pretty much going to lay off you for the time being. I feel like arguing with your defenses is like a brick wall. You say a lot of scummy things, but people claim it's just the way you speak the language blah blah blah. I found it the same way last game -- and that's why I attacked you for it (despite my role). So, I'm just going to give it a rest.
On this entire Clarity business, I mentioned this in one of my posts:
On November 04 2012 05:47 Clarity_nl wrote:
I noticed that too.
The distinction between "I wanted to show that I was trying to spark discussion" and "I was trying to spark discussion" is definitely a relevant one.
The time stamp is more than 30 minutes after his most recent post, and then he disappeared for the rest of the day. This is very indicative of active lurking, because he literally popped in, agreed with something that I underlined, then left. This is especially damning because 2 other people attacked me for underlining the Djo clause while he sheeped right onto it.
That's pretty much what I can add to what's already been thrown out there.
@Obzy accusing me of active lurking
I'm not? Not sure what I can say about that.
@Clarity
What was your question that I didn't answer???
My vote will be placed based on Clarity's response. I don't think I can ever look at Djo the correct way, and Debears is still playing town leader which irks me because of last game. Idk why everyone is still jumping all over Sylver, seems pretty legit to me.
If anyone wants to ask a question right now, I'm an open book. Come on up to my manor and I'll pour you some tea.
|
On November 05 2012 00:50 debears wrote:
@CC
While Djo has said some wtf kind of things, he did so last game. He has been pretty active, and he made the case on clarity first, and his points are valid, which means he shares a similar line of thinking as me.
I just find those "wtf things" hard to dismiss, but I kind of have to because, well, it's smileyDjo. The only problem I have with the bolded is that idk if you're scum or not this game, so him sharing the same line of thinking as you could be a very bad thing.
|
Okay just give me a few to round them all up.
|
@Debears
Here's just some stuff off the top of my head.
@Djo
This is not for you to make a defense against, it is merely for Debears' reference. I already know your PoV on the issues.
On November 03 2012 12:06 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 12:00 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 10:50 Djodref wrote:
@ debaers
I don't think this one deserves a FoS. When Alsn says that it is technically a lie, that's just Alsn arguing about math and logic. On November 03 2012 11:52 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 11:12 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:11 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 03 2012 11:10 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:09 debears wrote:On November 03 2012 11:04 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Debears you seem really paranoid. On November 03 2012 10:42 debears wrote:
Yeah i am. He calls me a liarin red and then peaces out without wanting to hear my thoughts. Aint that scummy? Considering how active he was around lynch time last game, which was only an hour before this He didn't call you, Debears the person, a liar. You're taking Alsn's nit-pick of a post awfully personally. The quick, useless FoS is also the same exact tactic you used last game. Old hat, Debears, old hat.
1) i don't wear a hat2) i rescind my argument. The red text threw me off Scumtell. Howso? Mafia usually wear hats. He's so adamant that he most certainly does NOT wear a hat. Therefore, scumtell. @ CheesecakePlease refrain from joking when talking about scumtells. It's confusing. FoS Cheese The logic is strong with this one. @ CheeseI was re-reading the thread and I really didn't like this "it's a scumtell" joke. I'm not against jokes but scumtells are quite serious business. I've got my eyes on you.
- Two mistakes I made last game, remember? 1.) Feeling like he needs to tell the thread that he's been reading and 2.) reiterating that he is suspicious of me when his stance is clear.
- He also says that "scumtells are srs bizniz" which just seems like he's trying too hard to come off as town, especially when nobody beforehand had even cared about what I had said.
On November 03 2012 12:35 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 12:23 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 12:06 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 12:00 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 10:50 Djodref wrote:
@ debaers
I don't think this one deserves a FoS. When Alsn says that it is technically a lie, that's just Alsn arguing about math and logic. On November 03 2012 11:52 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 11:12 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:11 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 03 2012 11:10 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:09 debears wrote:On November 03 2012 11:04 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Debears you seem really paranoid.
[quote]
He didn't call you, Debears the person, a liar. You're taking Alsn's nit-pick of a post awfully personally.
The quick, useless FoS is also the same exact tactic you used last game. Old hat, Debears, old hat.
1) i don't wear a hat2) i rescind my argument. The red text threw me off Scumtell. Howso? Mafia usually wear hats. He's so adamant that he most certainly does NOT wear a hat. Therefore, scumtell. @ CheesecakePlease refrain from joking when talking about scumtells. It's confusing. FoS Cheese The logic is strong with this one. @ CheeseI was re-reading the thread and I really didn't like this "it's a scumtell" joke. I'm not against jokes but scumtells are quite serious business. I've got my eyes on you. There is no reason to tell us that you were reading the thread. We should know you are. This is the exact thing that Nack picked up about my scumplay last game. "This game is serious business" It's a couple hours into the first day, and most of the thread isn't even around. You're really trying to come off as town by plucking this insignificant little fact that everyone else giggled about and passed on by. And - mafia motivation for making a joke? We should get some George Carlins as scum if there is mafia motivation for making someone snicker a little. Also: My humor was mainly kept to the QT last game. Only a few stupid things in the thread were let through. /Engagecheesecakeseriousmode @ CheeseYour joke didn't pose any problem for me the first time (same for everyone I suppose) but I found it weird the second time I past through it. I have no problems with jokes and I'm making some myself. They are a null tell in general. But joking about scum tells is not really acceptable in my opinion and I've explained the possible mafia motivations I've seen behind it.
Again, telling people that he's been reading. Also, there is no mafia motivation behind a little joke so early in the game. There wasn't last game, there ain't this game.
On November 03 2012 12:06 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 12:00 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 10:50 Djodref wrote:
@ debaers
I don't think this one deserves a FoS. When Alsn says that it is technically a lie, that's just Alsn arguing about math and logic. On November 03 2012 11:52 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 11:12 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:11 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 03 2012 11:10 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:09 debears wrote:On November 03 2012 11:04 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Debears you seem really paranoid. On November 03 2012 10:42 debears wrote:
Yeah i am. He calls me a liarin red and then peaces out without wanting to hear my thoughts. Aint that scummy? Considering how active he was around lynch time last game, which was only an hour before this He didn't call you, Debears the person, a liar. You're taking Alsn's nit-pick of a post awfully personally. The quick, useless FoS is also the same exact tactic you used last game. Old hat, Debears, old hat.
1) i don't wear a hat2) i rescind my argument. The red text threw me off Scumtell. Howso? Mafia usually wear hats. He's so adamant that he most certainly does NOT wear a hat. Therefore, scumtell. @ CheesecakePlease refrain from joking when talking about scumtells. It's confusing. FoS Cheese The logic is strong with this one.
Then there's this little snippet, where he doesn't think Alsn deserves a FoS but then he FoS's me right away for no better reason. I found it contradictory.
In additon, I won't re-quote for this one, is his stance on "pressure votes". I understand where he's coming from in his argument, I really do, but his play last time just seems like the same thing Sylver was doing and now he's condemning him for it.
On November 04 2012 05:40 Djodref wrote:
@ Rad
1My main goal with the sudden FoS on Cheese was to spark some discussion. I said it was confusing but it was more a pretext. The truth is that I didn't like it. Using sarcasm was not a brillaint idea but agin, I wanted to show that I was trying to spark discussion.
This one just rang bells for me. Town don't try to show that they are sparking discussion, they just do it.
All this little stuff just sticks right out at me. He tells me not to "nit-pick" at his posts, but I find that hard to do. It's not always someone's actions that denote them as scum (as scumhunting, etc can be faked), it's subtext and rhetoric which are much more difficult to stop doing as scum. It's just like when you guys(Djo+Debears) pick on Sylver for saying townies and not players. We all have our definitions of scumslips, and I don't want to dismiss these simply because he's smileydjo.
As I said before, I'm not going to be looking much more into this because It's just a game of cat and mouse with Djo.
|
On November 05 2012 01:39 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 01:17 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:+ Show Spoiler +@DebearsHere's just some stuff off the top of my head.
@DjoThis is not for you to make a defense against, it is merely for Debears' reference. I already know your PoV on the issues. On November 03 2012 12:06 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 12:00 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 10:50 Djodref wrote:
@ debaers
I don't think this one deserves a FoS. When Alsn says that it is technically a lie, that's just Alsn arguing about math and logic. On November 03 2012 11:52 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 11:12 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:11 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 03 2012 11:10 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:09 debears wrote:On November 03 2012 11:04 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Debears you seem really paranoid. On November 03 2012 10:42 debears wrote:
Yeah i am. He calls me a liarin red and then peaces out without wanting to hear my thoughts. Aint that scummy? Considering how active he was around lynch time last game, which was only an hour before this He didn't call you, Debears the person, a liar. You're taking Alsn's nit-pick of a post awfully personally. The quick, useless FoS is also the same exact tactic you used last game. Old hat, Debears, old hat.
1) i don't wear a hat2) i rescind my argument. The red text threw me off Scumtell. Howso? Mafia usually wear hats. He's so adamant that he most certainly does NOT wear a hat. Therefore, scumtell. @ CheesecakePlease refrain from joking when talking about scumtells. It's confusing. FoS Cheese The logic is strong with this one. @ CheeseI was re-reading the thread and I really didn't like this "it's a scumtell" joke. I'm not against jokes but scumtells are quite serious business. I've got my eyes on you. - Two mistakes I made last game, remember? 1.) Feeling like he needs to tell the thread that he's been reading and 2.) reiterating that he is suspicious of me when his stance is clear. - He also says that "scumtells are srs bizniz" which just seems like he's trying too hard to come off as town, especially when nobody beforehand had even cared about what I had said. On November 03 2012 12:35 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 12:23 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 12:06 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 12:00 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 10:50 Djodref wrote:
@ debaers
I don't think this one deserves a FoS. When Alsn says that it is technically a lie, that's just Alsn arguing about math and logic. On November 03 2012 11:52 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 11:12 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:11 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 03 2012 11:10 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:09 debears wrote:On November 03 2012 11:04 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Debears you seem really paranoid.
[quote]
He didn't call you, Debears the person, a liar. You're taking Alsn's nit-pick of a post awfully personally.
The quick, useless FoS is also the same exact tactic you used last game. Old hat, Debears, old hat.
1) i don't wear a hat2) i rescind my argument. The red text threw me off Scumtell. Howso? Mafia usually wear hats. He's so adamant that he most certainly does NOT wear a hat. Therefore, scumtell. @ CheesecakePlease refrain from joking when talking about scumtells. It's confusing. FoS Cheese The logic is strong with this one. @ CheeseI was re-reading the thread and I really didn't like this "it's a scumtell" joke. I'm not against jokes but scumtells are quite serious business. I've got my eyes on you. There is no reason to tell us that you were reading the thread. We should know you are. This is the exact thing that Nack picked up about my scumplay last game. "This game is serious business" It's a couple hours into the first day, and most of the thread isn't even around. You're really trying to come off as town by plucking this insignificant little fact that everyone else giggled about and passed on by. And - mafia motivation for making a joke? We should get some George Carlins as scum if there is mafia motivation for making someone snicker a little. Also: My humor was mainly kept to the QT last game. Only a few stupid things in the thread were let through. /Engagecheesecakeseriousmode @ CheeseYour joke didn't pose any problem for me the first time (same for everyone I suppose) but I found it weird the second time I past through it. I have no problems with jokes and I'm making some myself. They are a null tell in general. But joking about scum tells is not really acceptable in my opinion and I've explained the possible mafia motivations I've seen behind it. Again, telling people that he's been reading. Also, there is no mafia motivation behind a little joke so early in the game. There wasn't last game, there ain't this game. On November 03 2012 12:06 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 12:00 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 10:50 Djodref wrote:
@ debaers
I don't think this one deserves a FoS. When Alsn says that it is technically a lie, that's just Alsn arguing about math and logic. On November 03 2012 11:52 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 11:12 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:11 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 03 2012 11:10 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:09 debears wrote:On November 03 2012 11:04 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Debears you seem really paranoid. On November 03 2012 10:42 debears wrote:
Yeah i am. He calls me a liarin red and then peaces out without wanting to hear my thoughts. Aint that scummy? Considering how active he was around lynch time last game, which was only an hour before this He didn't call you, Debears the person, a liar. You're taking Alsn's nit-pick of a post awfully personally. The quick, useless FoS is also the same exact tactic you used last game. Old hat, Debears, old hat.
1) i don't wear a hat2) i rescind my argument. The red text threw me off Scumtell. Howso? Mafia usually wear hats. He's so adamant that he most certainly does NOT wear a hat. Therefore, scumtell. @ CheesecakePlease refrain from joking when talking about scumtells. It's confusing. FoS Cheese The logic is strong with this one. Then there's this little snippet, where he doesn't think Alsn deserves a FoS but then he FoS's me right away for no better reason. I found it contradictory. In additon, I won't re-quote for this one, is his stance on "pressure votes". I understand where he's coming from in his argument, I really do, but his play last time just seems like the same thing Sylver was doing and now he's condemning him for it. On November 04 2012 05:40 Djodref wrote:
@ Rad
1My main goal with the sudden FoS on Cheese was to spark some discussion. I said it was confusing but it was more a pretext. The truth is that I didn't like it. Using sarcasm was not a brillaint idea but agin, I wanted to show that I was trying to spark discussion.
This one just rang bells for me. Town don't try to show that they are sparking discussion, they just do it. All this little stuff just sticks right out at me. He tells me not to "nit-pick" at his posts, but I find that hard to do. It's not always someone's actions that denote them as scum (as scumhunting, etc can be faked), it's subtext and rhetoric which are much more difficult to stop doing as scum. It's just like when you guys(Djo+Debears) pick on Sylver for saying townies and not players. We all have our definitions of scumslips, and I don't want to dismiss these simply because he's smileydjo. As I said before, I'm not going to be looking much more into this because It's just a game of cat and mouse with Djo. Has he done anything specifically since these posts to make you think he's scum? Also, anything to make you think he's town?
@Debears
I liked the cases on Clarity from both of you, and I can see him being potential scum (especially after his active-lurky comment on my underlined djo clause). He's been pretty tame since then. Only thing I don't like is his "Hey, get us 3 up there, because I've got nothing to hide" mentality, but that's just me.
|
On November 05 2012 02:08 debears wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 02:07 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 05 2012 01:39 debears wrote:On November 05 2012 01:17 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:+ Show Spoiler +@DebearsHere's just some stuff off the top of my head.
@DjoThis is not for you to make a defense against, it is merely for Debears' reference. I already know your PoV on the issues. On November 03 2012 12:06 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 12:00 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 10:50 Djodref wrote:
@ debaers
I don't think this one deserves a FoS. When Alsn says that it is technically a lie, that's just Alsn arguing about math and logic. On November 03 2012 11:52 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 11:12 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:11 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 03 2012 11:10 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:09 debears wrote:On November 03 2012 11:04 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Debears you seem really paranoid. On November 03 2012 10:42 debears wrote:
Yeah i am. He calls me a liarin red and then peaces out without wanting to hear my thoughts. Aint that scummy? Considering how active he was around lynch time last game, which was only an hour before this He didn't call you, Debears the person, a liar. You're taking Alsn's nit-pick of a post awfully personally. The quick, useless FoS is also the same exact tactic you used last game. Old hat, Debears, old hat.
1) i don't wear a hat2) i rescind my argument. The red text threw me off Scumtell. Howso? Mafia usually wear hats. He's so adamant that he most certainly does NOT wear a hat. Therefore, scumtell. @ CheesecakePlease refrain from joking when talking about scumtells. It's confusing. FoS Cheese The logic is strong with this one. @ CheeseI was re-reading the thread and I really didn't like this "it's a scumtell" joke. I'm not against jokes but scumtells are quite serious business. I've got my eyes on you. - Two mistakes I made last game, remember? 1.) Feeling like he needs to tell the thread that he's been reading and 2.) reiterating that he is suspicious of me when his stance is clear. - He also says that "scumtells are srs bizniz" which just seems like he's trying too hard to come off as town, especially when nobody beforehand had even cared about what I had said. On November 03 2012 12:35 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 12:23 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 12:06 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 12:00 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 10:50 Djodref wrote:
@ debaers
I don't think this one deserves a FoS. When Alsn says that it is technically a lie, that's just Alsn arguing about math and logic. On November 03 2012 11:52 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 11:12 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:11 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 03 2012 11:10 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:09 debears wrote:On November 03 2012 11:04 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Debears you seem really paranoid.
[quote]
He didn't call you, Debears the person, a liar. You're taking Alsn's nit-pick of a post awfully personally.
The quick, useless FoS is also the same exact tactic you used last game. Old hat, Debears, old hat.
1) i don't wear a hat2) i rescind my argument. The red text threw me off Scumtell. Howso? Mafia usually wear hats. He's so adamant that he most certainly does NOT wear a hat. Therefore, scumtell. @ CheesecakePlease refrain from joking when talking about scumtells. It's confusing. FoS Cheese The logic is strong with this one. @ CheeseI was re-reading the thread and I really didn't like this "it's a scumtell" joke. I'm not against jokes but scumtells are quite serious business. I've got my eyes on you. There is no reason to tell us that you were reading the thread. We should know you are. This is the exact thing that Nack picked up about my scumplay last game. "This game is serious business" It's a couple hours into the first day, and most of the thread isn't even around. You're really trying to come off as town by plucking this insignificant little fact that everyone else giggled about and passed on by. And - mafia motivation for making a joke? We should get some George Carlins as scum if there is mafia motivation for making someone snicker a little. Also: My humor was mainly kept to the QT last game. Only a few stupid things in the thread were let through. /Engagecheesecakeseriousmode @ CheeseYour joke didn't pose any problem for me the first time (same for everyone I suppose) but I found it weird the second time I past through it. I have no problems with jokes and I'm making some myself. They are a null tell in general. But joking about scum tells is not really acceptable in my opinion and I've explained the possible mafia motivations I've seen behind it. Again, telling people that he's been reading. Also, there is no mafia motivation behind a little joke so early in the game. There wasn't last game, there ain't this game. On November 03 2012 12:06 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 12:00 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 10:50 Djodref wrote:
@ debaers
I don't think this one deserves a FoS. When Alsn says that it is technically a lie, that's just Alsn arguing about math and logic. On November 03 2012 11:52 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 11:12 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:11 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 03 2012 11:10 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:09 debears wrote:On November 03 2012 11:04 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Debears you seem really paranoid. On November 03 2012 10:42 debears wrote:
Yeah i am. He calls me a liarin red and then peaces out without wanting to hear my thoughts. Aint that scummy? Considering how active he was around lynch time last game, which was only an hour before this He didn't call you, Debears the person, a liar. You're taking Alsn's nit-pick of a post awfully personally. The quick, useless FoS is also the same exact tactic you used last game. Old hat, Debears, old hat.
1) i don't wear a hat2) i rescind my argument. The red text threw me off Scumtell. Howso? Mafia usually wear hats. He's so adamant that he most certainly does NOT wear a hat. Therefore, scumtell. @ CheesecakePlease refrain from joking when talking about scumtells. It's confusing. FoS Cheese The logic is strong with this one. Then there's this little snippet, where he doesn't think Alsn deserves a FoS but then he FoS's me right away for no better reason. I found it contradictory. In additon, I won't re-quote for this one, is his stance on "pressure votes". I understand where he's coming from in his argument, I really do, but his play last time just seems like the same thing Sylver was doing and now he's condemning him for it. On November 04 2012 05:40 Djodref wrote:
@ Rad
1My main goal with the sudden FoS on Cheese was to spark some discussion. I said it was confusing but it was more a pretext. The truth is that I didn't like it. Using sarcasm was not a brillaint idea but agin, I wanted to show that I was trying to spark discussion.
This one just rang bells for me. Town don't try to show that they are sparking discussion, they just do it. All this little stuff just sticks right out at me. He tells me not to "nit-pick" at his posts, but I find that hard to do. It's not always someone's actions that denote them as scum (as scumhunting, etc can be faked), it's subtext and rhetoric which are much more difficult to stop doing as scum. It's just like when you guys(Djo+Debears) pick on Sylver for saying townies and not players. We all have our definitions of scumslips, and I don't want to dismiss these simply because he's smileydjo. As I said before, I'm not going to be looking much more into this because It's just a game of cat and mouse with Djo. Has he done anything specifically since these posts to make you think he's scum? Also, anything to make you think he's town? @DebearsI liked the cases on Clarity from both of you, and I can see him being potential scum (especially after his active-lurky comment on my underlined djo clause). He's been pretty tame since then. Only thing I don't like is his "Hey, get us 3 up there, because I've got nothing to hide" mentality, but that's just me. Is that mentality necessarily scum? I can easily see a townie saying that too. It's a null tell
Yeah, I see it as null too. It's just odd as hell.
|
I'm having trouble getting on the Debears wagon, a lot seems to be based on fluff content and OMGUS reactions. Although, I must say he is playing his scumgame right on point. But I suppose that's a null tell because he always opens as the town leader.
@Clarity
I just dug up your question. No, there was no scum motivation with my "jokes" last game. Zero percent whatsoever.
Also, what was the purpose (motivation behind) this post:
On November 04 2012 05:47 Clarity_nl wrote:
I noticed that too.
The distinction between "I wanted to show that I was trying to spark discussion" and "I was trying to spark discussion" is definitely a relevant one.
In context: I call out Djo for a scummy sounding clause, and I ask Rad (because he looked like the only one around) what he thought. Right away, you jump in and are like "Yeah, noticed this, relevant to your case" and then disappear. This was a random post (no posts ~30 mins beforehand, none until many hours after). Also, two people (Rad+Alsn I think) said it wasn't that important.
|
@Clarity
I agree with the fluff point on your case of Debears - fluff creating more fluff because fluff is fluffy fluff. (Fluff = confidence from last game). The first point, however, you say that he was trying to halt discussion. I'd disagree, Debears and I both wanted Djo to stop because the argument was, well, ridiculous in nature. It was pretty much going in circles and if we hadn't stopped it, we'd still be drowned in it.
|
@Alsn
Well, to no surprise, Djo is on the list. For reasons I'm sure everyone is aware of -- so I will not repeat them. I'm actually surprised Debears hasn't given a case on Djo yet, since he asked me for a plethora of quotes earlier -- but I guess the state of affairs has changed seeing as now he is under the microscope. Wait, Debears gives a post on Sylver instead? Why does this feel like last game where he was posting all these different cases on anyone but the other two scums to spread suspicion / avoid it?
Clarity... his case against Debears is totally based on fluff content and a few other small topics. I find it really tough to get on that sort of bandwagon with such little reason. His case feels kind of OMGUS too.
Lynching Debears right now would be good obviously if he flips red, but if he flips green then at least we know he is speaking truthfully about everything. Right now, I find it difficult to take anything he says seriously because I know his scum meta. He has given cases / thoughts on a bunch of people right now, and if he flips town we would know his words were 100% truth. Lynching for information, I know not the best tactic in the world, but it's something to think about when I'm considering his vote.
I still don't think Sylver is scummy. Djo / Debears kind of jumped all over him.
|
On November 05 2012 05:49 Alsn wrote:
Cheese, disregarding what we find out if debears is lynched, what do you actually think of him? You say you have difficulty taking him seriously, but what does that tell you? Is he scum or is he null or is he town because of it?
To say the least, I think he's using more logic than some at this stage which is why I don't want to lynch him. We can always find his faulty logic / contradictions later (he'll have to make them at some point if he is scum) I'm going to have to say null.
|
@Rad
I liked how you had that townie read on me last game  . I think you had that read because I was playing very neutral (no strong ultra-mega reads) and using logical points. Is Obzy doing that this game? To you, does he seem like me in the previous game?
|
ebwop: Is Clarity doing that this game*
|
I agree with the fluff point, but I don't like the fact that the case itself relies to much on it.
|
On November 05 2012 06:42 Alsn wrote:
##Unvote
I'm more and more convinced that I may have been wrong about debears. Upon closer inspection I realised that his early FoS in XXIX was against a scum buddy of his, meaning he never planned to follow through on it. So he must have had different reasons for FoSing me early this game. In addition, I have to concede that even if he may have been a bit brusque in his attitude towards some of the newer players, it has indeed gotten them to talk, something which is undoubtedly good for town.
I also may have overestimated the importance of his vote switching. The fact that he did find sylver scummy and then kept arguing with him about it should probably be a town tell, seeing as it revealed a lot of what sylver claimed to be his motivations for voting was.
The problem now though is, I'm not yet convinced that Clarity is scummy, but at this point I don't know who else to vote. I definitely think that Clarity's behaviour seems weird, he didn't really commit to any strong stance until he was pressured to do so by being voted. Yet we could say the same thing about Cheese or even Rad as they've been getting away with "blending in" almost as much as Clarity in my opinion. Cheese's only major stance he has taken yet has been to FoS Djod because Djod thought Cheese joking was scummy, yet what else? Soft-disagreeing with both the lynches because they may or may not be scum?
Not to mention the fact that Cheese isn't even trying to push a Djod lynch even though he said that he's "on the list" when I asked for his strongest reads. He's content with just sitting and soft-commenting and being pretty neutral about everything.
I'm not going to push a Djo lynch again, mainly because arguing with him is a game of cat and mouse. I think neutrality is going to become an integral part of my play D1 anyway. Taking a huge stance this early just doesn't seem all that feasible for me, because a lot of my arguments are "nit-picky" as Djo calls it. Once the first person flips, things become a lot more clear to me based on context and I can go from there.
At this point, the only reason I'd vote for Debears is to get concrete info, which isn't a good thing. I'd vote Clarity because his Debears counter-case is really OMGUSy and he seems like the person to actively lurk.
Brb dinner. Also, Regular Fapper.
|
Everyone seems so concerned on why I haven't been pushing my case on Djo. You know why? Because everything that I find scummy about him, people attribute to his "Djo" attitude and the way he words things. I made a ton of mistakes last game that I find him doing this game. I point them out, but the entire thread is just like "You know, it's just Djo being Djo". Incredibly frustrating. I dropped my case and accusing him of scummy behavior because I actually didn't feel like hitting my head into this brick wall anymore. So, I decided to go back to a neutral stance and look at what other people were doing.
His 180 on pressure voting is something that I found to be damning as hell (Alsn, I think you agree on this?) He explains this by giving some sorry excuse about the difference between suspicion votes and pressure votes and blah blah blah. You know what? Fuck that. Djo is scummy as hell to me. Was last game(regardless of me being scum), is this game. I don't give two shits how he handles the language or his defense. The only reason he gets away with a ton of his posts is because his meta is cheerfully innocent.
/Engageconfirmationbiasgoggles
##Vote: Djodref
Also, Regular Fapper right here. Just fappin' away.
|
Go to the OP. Click under Vanilla Townie. Read the end of that vote post. Realize.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
