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Djod, Clarity said that he was going to sleep, considering he was up until 7 am and then only seemed to sleep for 4 hours if we are to believe what he said yesterday, I don't find it unlikely that he would sleep in the afternoon local time.
That being said, rest assured that I'll be looking at his case in great detail. I'm holding off on making a judgement right now because I actually have a slight town read on him so far and I think you are both exaggerating the importance of your cases against him. Particularly the fact that debears is basing his case in large part on meta on a player who has played 24 hours total of mafia before being modkilled. Or that you seem to be accusing him of blending in, yet nothing he has really said to my eyes jumps out as if he was trying to push a scum agenda. If his only crime was blending in, who are you to say he's blending in on purpose?
Sure, if he later jumps in and votes with bad reasoning, I'll hold it against him, but right now I find both of your cases weak. I'll hold off on elaborating further until he actually shows up however as I don't want to give him any unnecessary help.
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On November 05 2012 01:19 Alsn wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 01:11 Djodref wrote:I would like sylver to be considered as a lynch candidate for today as well. I have no problem with me being also a candidate (even if I would have preferred to address the possible cases against me not while waking up) because being mislynched last game allowed me to clearly see who was pushing me for bad reasons. I'm confident that you could recognize my innocence this time  And why nobody has yet commented on the newest slip from sylver ? This fixation on supposed slips is making me seriously pissed. The fact that you don't even realise that if anyone has made a slip, it's you with your "vote pressure" slip yet you go along and accuse others for slipping? Also, would you make up your mind? You want yourself and sylver as lynch candidates too? Why so sylver gets lynched and you won't need to be associated with causing the lynch on Clarity? Do you know that Clarity is town?Look how easy it is to make up slips. It's ridiculous how much attention they seem to be getting. The worst part is that once you accuse someone, anything they say to defend themselves is basically WIFOM.
@ Alsn
I didn't understand this part of your post. I think that Clarity has better chances to be scum than sylver right now. I would say 70% for Clarity and 60% for sylver. I'd like them both as lynch candidate for today. I know that some people find me suspicious so I'm proposing myself as a lynch candidate, for the reasons I've stated before.
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@ Alsn
Do you have a better lynch candidate for today by the way ?
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Vote Count!
If your vote is not properly formatted it might not be counted. Everyone is required to vote.
Clarity_nl (2) - Djodref, debears
da0ud (1) - Clarity_nl, debears, debears
Djodref (1) - sylverfyre
sylverfyre (0) - djodref, debears
debears (0) - da0ud, sylverfyre
Not Voting (5) - Obzy, Rad, Alsn, Mr. Cheesecake, da0ud
Currently, Clarity_nl is set to be lynched! If you see that your vote is incorrect then pm me. You have about 8 hours and 30 minutes left to vote! Deadline is at 01:00 GMT (+00:00)
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On November 05 2012 01:29 Alsn wrote:
Djod, Clarity said that he was going to sleep, considering he was up until 7 am and then only seemed to sleep for 4 hours if we are to believe what he said yesterday, I don't find it unlikely that he would sleep in the afternoon local time.
That being said, rest assured that I'll be looking at his case in great detail. I'm holding off on making a judgement right now because I actually have a slight town read on him so far and I think you are both exaggerating the importance of your cases against him. Particularly the fact that debears is basing his case in large part on meta on a player who has played 24 hours total of mafia before being modkilled. Or that you seem to be accusing him of blending in, yet nothing he has really said to my eyes jumps out as if he was trying to push a scum agenda. If his only crime was blending in, who are you to say he's blending in on purpose?
Sure, if he later jumps in and votes with bad reasoning, I'll hold it against him, but right now I find both of your cases weak. I'll hold off on elaborating further until he actually shows up however as I don't want to give him any unnecessary help.
The main part of my case is not meta. I've stated that the first two points: his lackluster method of scumhunting, lack of scumhunting, and contradiction to why he finds me, djo, and someone else more scummy than those who haven't answered his questions, as stated by himself. Read my case again
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On November 05 2012 01:17 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:+ Show Spoiler +@DebearsHere's just some stuff off the top of my head.
@DjoThis is not for you to make a defense against, it is merely for Debears' reference. I already know your PoV on the issues. On November 03 2012 12:06 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 12:00 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 10:50 Djodref wrote:
@ debaers
I don't think this one deserves a FoS. When Alsn says that it is technically a lie, that's just Alsn arguing about math and logic. On November 03 2012 11:52 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 11:12 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:11 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 03 2012 11:10 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:09 debears wrote:On November 03 2012 11:04 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Debears you seem really paranoid. On November 03 2012 10:42 debears wrote:
Yeah i am. He calls me a liarin red and then peaces out without wanting to hear my thoughts. Aint that scummy? Considering how active he was around lynch time last game, which was only an hour before this He didn't call you, Debears the person, a liar. You're taking Alsn's nit-pick of a post awfully personally. The quick, useless FoS is also the same exact tactic you used last game. Old hat, Debears, old hat.
1) i don't wear a hat2) i rescind my argument. The red text threw me off Scumtell. Howso? Mafia usually wear hats. He's so adamant that he most certainly does NOT wear a hat. Therefore, scumtell. @ CheesecakePlease refrain from joking when talking about scumtells. It's confusing. FoS Cheese The logic is strong with this one. @ CheeseI was re-reading the thread and I really didn't like this "it's a scumtell" joke. I'm not against jokes but scumtells are quite serious business. I've got my eyes on you. - Two mistakes I made last game, remember? 1.) Feeling like he needs to tell the thread that he's been reading and 2.) reiterating that he is suspicious of me when his stance is clear. - He also says that "scumtells are srs bizniz" which just seems like he's trying too hard to come off as town, especially when nobody beforehand had even cared about what I had said. On November 03 2012 12:35 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 12:23 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 12:06 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 12:00 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 10:50 Djodref wrote:
@ debaers
I don't think this one deserves a FoS. When Alsn says that it is technically a lie, that's just Alsn arguing about math and logic. On November 03 2012 11:52 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 11:12 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:11 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 03 2012 11:10 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:09 debears wrote:On November 03 2012 11:04 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Debears you seem really paranoid.
[quote]
He didn't call you, Debears the person, a liar. You're taking Alsn's nit-pick of a post awfully personally.
The quick, useless FoS is also the same exact tactic you used last game. Old hat, Debears, old hat.
1) i don't wear a hat2) i rescind my argument. The red text threw me off Scumtell. Howso? Mafia usually wear hats. He's so adamant that he most certainly does NOT wear a hat. Therefore, scumtell. @ CheesecakePlease refrain from joking when talking about scumtells. It's confusing. FoS Cheese The logic is strong with this one. @ CheeseI was re-reading the thread and I really didn't like this "it's a scumtell" joke. I'm not against jokes but scumtells are quite serious business. I've got my eyes on you. There is no reason to tell us that you were reading the thread. We should know you are. This is the exact thing that Nack picked up about my scumplay last game. "This game is serious business" It's a couple hours into the first day, and most of the thread isn't even around. You're really trying to come off as town by plucking this insignificant little fact that everyone else giggled about and passed on by. And - mafia motivation for making a joke? We should get some George Carlins as scum if there is mafia motivation for making someone snicker a little. Also: My humor was mainly kept to the QT last game. Only a few stupid things in the thread were let through. /Engagecheesecakeseriousmode @ CheeseYour joke didn't pose any problem for me the first time (same for everyone I suppose) but I found it weird the second time I past through it. I have no problems with jokes and I'm making some myself. They are a null tell in general. But joking about scum tells is not really acceptable in my opinion and I've explained the possible mafia motivations I've seen behind it. Again, telling people that he's been reading. Also, there is no mafia motivation behind a little joke so early in the game. There wasn't last game, there ain't this game. On November 03 2012 12:06 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 12:00 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 10:50 Djodref wrote:
@ debaers
I don't think this one deserves a FoS. When Alsn says that it is technically a lie, that's just Alsn arguing about math and logic. On November 03 2012 11:52 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 11:12 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:11 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 03 2012 11:10 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:09 debears wrote:On November 03 2012 11:04 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Debears you seem really paranoid. On November 03 2012 10:42 debears wrote:
Yeah i am. He calls me a liarin red and then peaces out without wanting to hear my thoughts. Aint that scummy? Considering how active he was around lynch time last game, which was only an hour before this He didn't call you, Debears the person, a liar. You're taking Alsn's nit-pick of a post awfully personally. The quick, useless FoS is also the same exact tactic you used last game. Old hat, Debears, old hat.
1) i don't wear a hat2) i rescind my argument. The red text threw me off Scumtell. Howso? Mafia usually wear hats. He's so adamant that he most certainly does NOT wear a hat. Therefore, scumtell. @ CheesecakePlease refrain from joking when talking about scumtells. It's confusing. FoS Cheese The logic is strong with this one. Then there's this little snippet, where he doesn't think Alsn deserves a FoS but then he FoS's me right away for no better reason. I found it contradictory. In additon, I won't re-quote for this one, is his stance on "pressure votes". I understand where he's coming from in his argument, I really do, but his play last time just seems like the same thing Sylver was doing and now he's condemning him for it. On November 04 2012 05:40 Djodref wrote:
@ Rad
1My main goal with the sudden FoS on Cheese was to spark some discussion. I said it was confusing but it was more a pretext. The truth is that I didn't like it. Using sarcasm was not a brillaint idea but agin, I wanted to show that I was trying to spark discussion.
This one just rang bells for me. Town don't try to show that they are sparking discussion, they just do it. All this little stuff just sticks right out at me. He tells me not to "nit-pick" at his posts, but I find that hard to do. It's not always someone's actions that denote them as scum (as scumhunting, etc can be faked), it's subtext and rhetoric which are much more difficult to stop doing as scum. It's just like when you guys(Djo+Debears) pick on Sylver for saying townies and not players. We all have our definitions of scumslips, and I don't want to dismiss these simply because he's smileydjo. As I said before, I'm not going to be looking much more into this because It's just a game of cat and mouse with Djo.
Has he done anything specifically since these posts to make you think he's scum? Also, anything to make you think he's town?
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Djo is still making little sense with his plurality lynch strategy. After saying straight up that it's too late to discuss lynch strategy.
I feel like people might be reading into stuff too much on clarity, after forcing a lot of stuff out of him and then rejecting it as a "List" - you're basically cutting him off and being like "your idea is bad don't share that" and then are mystified when he gets quiet. Furthermore, he was active during the part of the day that debears was arguing rather constantly about his "Fluff Percentage" (and appears to even have gotten sidetracked by skimming through and pulling a number out, presumably hoping to get debears to drop the pointless argument)
Successfully waste someone's time -> call them scum for not contributing enough? I am really not sure how I feel about that. He's got a 4 page filter which doesn't read as fluffy to me (I admit I'm just skimming right now)
Shit, he's not even the only one who iterated through the people he had questions for - so why is he the only one being called out for it? o.O
I realize he didn't follow through with pressure on his cases (in fact, I pretty much missed the question he asked me until I got around to it by scumhunting at Djo's prod.)
His latest posts really make me think he isn't pulling off some active lurking strategies.
BTW, game 1 he had page and a half when he got modkilled. At the same time this game, he has almost twice that. I really can't call that "more passive" even though he's not coming out swinging this game.
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@Sylver
can you repost that so I know what exactly you are adding to that?
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You know what, debears and Djodref are teaming up on someone again. I find it difficult to swallow that the two of them are independently finding the same people scummy. I think one of the two is scum, and I don't know which one. Worth noting that this is the second time that debears has followed up Djo on an attack (though the first time, it was also in defense of himself. This time, there's no such defense.
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One other thing against Clarity.
He announced that he was likely to make a case against me later in the day. At that time, we were both in the thread so I've asked him if it was possible for us to discuss about the points for which I was suspicious in his eyes at this time. Please look at the time stamps.
On November 04 2012 17:29 Djodref wrote:
Wouldn't you mind to discuss what you have against me right now ?
I'm going to have to sleep before the deadline and I don't want to have to defend your case against me while waking up and catching the thread. Plus it's going to be likely that I need to decide my vote at this time so I would prefer to focus on analysis rather than defense at that time.
<snip>
On November 04 2012 17:38 Clarity_nl wrote:
<snip>
The deadline is in about 16-17 hours, don't worry I'm not going to post a case close to deadline, but I will not be posting a case right now.
What's with the double standards, you want me to fight my own fights but you're asking me about cheese, who you FoS'd
On November 04 2012 21:17 Clarity_nl wrote:
Going to sleep, will be back in my evening which is in ~5 hours from this post.
I think he would have enough time to ask me some questions to get more information or post his case against me before going to bed. I don't understand the town motivation for avoiding discussing with me. I don't think that he is right now 100% convinced I am scum so I don't see why a discussion would have been bad at that time.
Right now, I think he is waiting for me to sleep before posting his case.
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On November 05 2012 01:43 sylverfyre wrote:
You know what, debears and Djodref are teaming up on someone again. I find it difficult to swallow that the two of them are independently finding the same people scummy. I think one of the two is scum, and I don't know which one. Worth noting that this is the second time that debears has followed up Djo on an attack (though the first time, it was also in defense of himself. This time, there's no such defense.
So what are you exactly saying here? That because we have a similar line of thinking we are associated?
You find us either a scumteam or one of us scum?
What are your reasons specifically? Make some cases let's hear it
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On November 05 2012 01:48 Djodref wrote:
Right now, I think he is waiting for me to sleep before posting his case.
That last sentence isn't valid. Speculation. I did it earlier with Sylver I believe. It's dumb and adds nothing
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On November 05 2012 01:24 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 01:16 Rad wrote:
@djo
What slip? Be specific, there's a lot to keep track of here.
Also, don't martyr yourself. TBH that comes across as scummy as hell to me. If you're town, SURVIVE. Your survival would be of more benefit than whatever information you think your death would give, especially since we're just at d1 and everyone's just shooting around in the dark at the moment. @ RadI would imagine that it comes across as scummy but I want to know who is going to push for my lynch I was very close to have found the whole scumteam last game when I died. This is my motivation to propose myself as a possible lynch candidate. Here is the slip Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 16:55 Djodref wrote:On November 04 2012 16:27 sylverfyre wrote:
@Obzy - I made a pressure vote. Debears responded to it. We went back and forth at each other for a while. When we started to get into a loop of OMGUS, I was starting to feel like it was a waste of time and space that wasn't bringing a lot to the town, I let the vote drop. Scum love nothing more than when two townies are at each others throats constantly without looking at other people.
I'm not going to random vote first half of day 1 and follow it through all the way to lynchtime unless my target makes some SERIOUS scumtells under pressure. While debears doesn't exactly look pristine, I need to look at (and scumhunt sniff) more than 1 person on day 1. @ sylverSo are you saying that debears is a townie ? Slipping again ? I'm not sure what you want to say by "he doesn't exactly look pristine". Could you elaborate ?
@Djodref apperently you don't understand that if you state that something's a trap, it's no longer a trap. This kind of super odd reasoning is becoming pretty regular from you. It's the same reason why you wouldn't necessarily want to tell someone your pressure vote is a pressure vote (pointing back to your issue with sylver's vote from earlier), and I can't imagine why you'd want to tell people about your trap. Has anyone ever fallen into a trap they knew of? If you can't place your trap without explaining it, maybe you should think of a different idea instead...
Anyway, all I get from your "trap" is that you want to be considered super townie enough to take one for town. This could be scum motivated for normal people (though even then, a really stupid scum move I'd think). However, with how poorly we all judged you last game, I can see that as you attempting something different to gain trust because you actually don't know how to naturally gain trust. So, null tell for me in the end, I guess...
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I'm here now. Please give me a bit to reply as I do need to make dinner as well. Yes Djo my case was going to be about you, it's funny how that works huh, debears popping in with a giant case with bolded red lettering all over it?
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@ Rad
Sorry for the confusion I put you through, please don't try to read too much into it. This is something I want to try out because of my experience of last game. If it turns out to be a bad idea, I'm not going to do this again.
I'm not going to take one for town. There is nothing in my filter damning enough to justify a lynch on me today in my opinion.
But I'm interested to see who is going to take the chance (I think sylverfyre at least wants it) and how he is going to push it.
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On November 05 2012 01:31 Djodref wrote:
@ Alsn
Do you have a better lynch candidate for today by the way ? Back sorry, was preparing dinner. Yes, at this point, either one of you or debears, still deciding on which one though. Expect a commitment from me sometime soon.
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@Clarity
On November 05 2012 01:43 sylverfyre wrote:
You know what, debears and Djodref are teaming up on someone again. I find it difficult to swallow that the two of them are independently finding the same people scummy. I think one of the two is scum, and I don't know which one. Worth noting that this is the second time that debears has followed up Djo on an attack (though the first time, it was also in defense of himself. This time, there's no such defense.
Funny how you pop in right after Sylver does and come to the same conclusion with the same intent
On November 05 2012 01:55 Clarity_nl wrote:
I'm here now. Please give me a bit to reply as I do need to make dinner as well. Yes Djo my case was going to be about you, it's funny how that works huh, debears popping in with a giant case with bolded red lettering all over it?
Funny how easy it is to point something out like that.
Seriously, address the case first before you try to discredit it with bullshit reasoning
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On November 05 2012 01:55 Clarity_nl wrote:
I'm here now. Please give me a bit to reply as I do need to make dinner as well. Yes Djo my case was going to be about you, it's funny how that works huh, debears popping in with a giant case with bolded red lettering all over it?
Well, it is nice that you are preparing a case right now when I'm going to go to bed while we could have discussed about it yesterday. It doesn't look like you want to give me a fair chance to defend myself.
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How the hell is that a slip? It's a generalized statement. I'm saying that WHEN TWO TOWNIES ARE BICKERING, SCUM (who know that it's just two townies bickering) DON'T HAVE TO GET INVOLVED. Case in point: You vs Me (day 1) last game.
Rad also has a good point. You're making even more odd logic paths this game than I already called you out on.
Stop twisting my words to turn every instance of the word "Townie" into a scumtell. Keeping my vote on you.
I'm saying that debears is still on my radar for being scum.
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Also, wtf your sleeping schedules. Isn't it 5pm in france? 6pm? And Clarity is actually EARLY compared to when he SAID he'd be getting back online. Complaining about his timing when he's earlier than he said he'd be seems pretty weird.
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EPT
