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On November 05 2012 00:21 debears wrote:
@Dau0d
In the clarity case, the most important part is point 1 and 2. Points 3 and 4 go along with it.
Also, on point 4, meta is meta and can change. But does personality change? You gotta remember. Clarity was the one modkilled for sending out a pm eager to discuss reads, yet he hasn't really been discussing reads all game
True, I had forgotten he got modkilled last time for PMing on his reads, I was the one getting back his roll as Jailkeeper from VT ^^
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@Djo
I'm pretty much going to lay off you for the time being. I feel like arguing with your defenses is like a brick wall. You say a lot of scummy things, but people claim it's just the way you speak the language blah blah blah. I found it the same way last game -- and that's why I attacked you for it (despite my role). So, I'm just going to give it a rest.
On this entire Clarity business, I mentioned this in one of my posts:
On November 04 2012 05:47 Clarity_nl wrote:
I noticed that too.
The distinction between "I wanted to show that I was trying to spark discussion" and "I was trying to spark discussion" is definitely a relevant one.
The time stamp is more than 30 minutes after his most recent post, and then he disappeared for the rest of the day. This is very indicative of active lurking, because he literally popped in, agreed with something that I underlined, then left. This is especially damning because 2 other people attacked me for underlining the Djo clause while he sheeped right onto it.
That's pretty much what I can add to what's already been thrown out there.
@Obzy accusing me of active lurking
I'm not? Not sure what I can say about that.
@Clarity
What was your question that I didn't answer???
My vote will be placed based on Clarity's response. I don't think I can ever look at Djo the correct way, and Debears is still playing town leader which irks me because of last game. Idk why everyone is still jumping all over Sylver, seems pretty legit to me.
If anyone wants to ask a question right now, I'm an open book. Come on up to my manor and I'll pour you some tea.
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Djo is still making little sense with his plurality lynch strategy. After saying straight up that it's too late to discuss lynch strategy.
I feel like people might be reading into stuff too much on clarity, after forcing a lot of stuff out of him and then rejecting it as a "List" - you're basically cutting him off and being like "your idea is bad don't share that" and then are mystified when he gets quiet. Furthermore, he was active during the part of the day that debears was arguing rather constantly about his "Fluff Percentage" (and appears to even have gotten sidetracked by skimming through and pulling a number out, presumably hoping to get debears to drop the pointless argument)
Successfully waste someone's time -> call them scum for not contributing enough? I am really not sure how I feel about that.
Shit, he's not even the only one who iterated through the people he had questions for - so why is he the only one being crucified for it? o.O
I realize he didn't follow through with pressure on his cases (in fact, I pretty much missed the question he asked me until I got around to it by scumhunting at Djo's prod.)
I wish he hadn't left so abruptly though.
Da0ud seems in the same boat. He's on the quiet side, and now he's waiting before making another move.
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On November 05 2012 00:30 da0ud wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 00:21 debears wrote:
@Dau0d
In the clarity case, the most important part is point 1 and 2. Points 3 and 4 go along with it.
Also, on point 4, meta is meta and can change. But does personality change? You gotta remember. Clarity was the one modkilled for sending out a pm eager to discuss reads, yet he hasn't really been discussing reads all game True, I had forgotten he got modkilled last time for PMing on his reads, I was the one getting back his roll as Jailkeeper from VT ^^
Wait he was jk last game?
So as the most import blue, he was outgoing with his arguments (making me want to nk him last game), yet this game showing complete lack of being aggressive?
- If he is blue this game, his sudden change would be weird
- if he was townie, a less important role, he would most likely be more aggressive (fear less of being nked)
- if he was mafia, he would most likely be more passive
These are more general heuristics (I think that's the right word +1 for Ver lol) than concrete. But honestly I don't see someone being so much less aggressive as townie after being aggressive with the most important blue role
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I am a bit concerned that Djo living in Korea (so almost same timezone as I) has disappeared all afternoon. He is not 100% clean himself and has started lurking. It is now 1.40am in korea and knowing tomorrow is monday I doubt he will contribute till 4.30am.
@ Djo :
Are you sill arround or will you only be able to catch-up with the thread tomorrow morning right before lynch ? If things happen during the night in Asia, are you comfortable with keeping your vote on Clarity ?
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ebwop
add my last post to my case on clarity
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On November 05 2012 00:42 da0ud wrote:
I am a bit concerned that Djo living in Korea (so almost same timezone as I) has disappeared all afternoon. He is not 100% clean himself and has started lurking. It is now 1.40am in korea and knowing tomorrow is monday I doubt he will contribute till 4.30am.
@ Djo :
Are you sill arround or will you only be able to catch-up with the thread tomorrow morning right before lynch ? If things happen during the night in Asia, are you comfortable with keeping your vote on Clarity ?
da0ud, I know you got lynched early in the last game, but Djod consistently showed up a couple of hours before lynch last game. If he doesn't this game then I'd say we have something to worry about, but right now I'm more inclined to actually look at what he is saying in his case more than why he is away.
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@CC
While Djo has said some wtf kind of things, he did so last game. He has been pretty active, and he made the case on clarity first, and his points are valid, which means he shares a similar line of thinking as me.
Also, his early d1 thing about cheese's jokes, while had bad reasoning, can be explained by starting to kickstart the thread (I did the same thing with Alsn)
@Sylver
On November 05 2012 00:38 sylverfyre wrote:
Djo is still making little sense with his plurality lynch strategy. After saying straight up that it's too late to discuss lynch strategy.
I feel like people might be reading into stuff too much on clarity, after forcing a lot of stuff out of him and then rejecting it as a "List" - you're basically cutting him off and being like "your idea is bad don't share that" and then are mystified when he gets quiet. Furthermore, he was active during the part of the day that debears was arguing rather constantly about his "Fluff Percentage" (and appears to even have gotten sidetracked by skimming through and pulling a number out, presumably hoping to get debears to drop the pointless argument)
Successfully waste someone's time -> call them scum for not contributing enough? I am really not sure how I feel about that.
Shit, he's not even the only one who iterated through the people he had questions for - so why is he the only one being crucified for it? o.O
I realize he didn't follow through with pressure on his cases (in fact, I pretty much missed the question he asked me until I got around to it by scumhunting at Djo's prod.)
I wish he hadn't left so abruptly though.
Da0ud seems in the same boat. He's on the quiet side, and now he's waiting before making another move.
What is the purpose of this post? You spread suspicions on 3 people, yet refuse to acknowledge the case on clarity. You haven't addressed any specific points on clarity. Your defense on him is weak "reading too much stuff into clarity". Between Dau0d, me, Djo, it's impossible for all 3 of us to be scum. So why are you trying to discredit all 3 people who have said clarity looks scummy without any real evidence and a few short statements?
Did you read the case on Clairty?
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On November 05 2012 00:50 debears wrote:
@CC
While Djo has said some wtf kind of things, he did so last game. He has been pretty active, and he made the case on clarity first, and his points are valid, which means he shares a similar line of thinking as me.
I just find those "wtf things" hard to dismiss, but I kind of have to because, well, it's smileyDjo. The only problem I have with the bolded is that idk if you're scum or not this game, so him sharing the same line of thinking as you could be a very bad thing.
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On November 05 2012 00:53 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Show nested quote +On November 05 2012 00:50 debears wrote:
@CC
While Djo has said some wtf kind of things, he did so last game. He has been pretty active, and he made the case on clarity first, and his points are valid, which means he shares a similar line of thinking as me.
I just find those "wtf things" hard to dismiss, but I kind of have to because, well, it's smileyDjo. The only problem I have with the bolded is that idk if you're scum or not this game, so him sharing the same line of thinking as you could be a very bad thing.
CC, can you direct me to/restate the exact posts you are talking about. I'm looking at Djo as well since it seems him/Clarity is the direction this lynch is heading
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Okay just give me a few to round them all up.
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On November 05 2012 00:42 da0ud wrote:
I am a bit concerned that Djo living in Korea (so almost same timezone as I) has disappeared all afternoon. He is not 100% clean himself and has started lurking. It is now 1.40am in korea and knowing tomorrow is monday I doubt he will contribute till 4.30am.
@ Djo :
Are you sill arround or will you only be able to catch-up with the thread tomorrow morning right before lynch ? If things happen during the night in Asia, are you comfortable with keeping your vote on Clarity ?
@ daoud
I'm back, I was out with some friends. I'm not going to stay long though.
I'm catching up with the thread but I have already a few things to say.
@ sylverfyre
I should not have brought again the plurality lynch again but I love math and I wanted to calculate some probabilities. I was not promoting a random vote at all. Could you please make me a list with the main concerns you have in my regards ? I'm not sure to understand exactly why you have your vote on me right now.
@ Cheese
I understand that you find me suspicious but I don't think you should looking to much in some sentences here and there but rather at my actions. That's why you are hitting a wall of brick: the arguments you present are not really relevant. You know the people I have focused today and why, you know the case I have made and the arguments I have brought. Please look at my actions and try to balance the townie motivations and the mafia motivations I could have to behave like this and see by yourself what makes more sense.
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I'll be going to bed soon and sleep for something like 5 hours so I'll be here for the lynch 
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I would like sylver to be considered as a lynch candidate for today as well. I have no problem with me being also a candidate (even if I would have preferred to address the possible cases against me not while waking up) because being mislynched last game allowed me to clearly see who was pushing me for bad reasons. I'm confident that you could recognize my innocence this time
And why nobody has yet commented on the newest slip from sylver ?
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@djo
What slip? Be specific, there's a lot to keep track of here.
Also, don't martyr yourself. TBH that comes across as scummy as hell to me. If you're town, SURVIVE. Your survival would be of more benefit than whatever information you think your death would give, especially since we're just at d1 and everyone's just shooting around in the dark at the moment.
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@Debears
Here's just some stuff off the top of my head.
@Djo
This is not for you to make a defense against, it is merely for Debears' reference. I already know your PoV on the issues.
On November 03 2012 12:06 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 12:00 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 10:50 Djodref wrote:
@ debaers
I don't think this one deserves a FoS. When Alsn says that it is technically a lie, that's just Alsn arguing about math and logic. On November 03 2012 11:52 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 11:12 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:11 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 03 2012 11:10 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:09 debears wrote:On November 03 2012 11:04 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Debears you seem really paranoid. On November 03 2012 10:42 debears wrote:
Yeah i am. He calls me a liarin red and then peaces out without wanting to hear my thoughts. Aint that scummy? Considering how active he was around lynch time last game, which was only an hour before this He didn't call you, Debears the person, a liar. You're taking Alsn's nit-pick of a post awfully personally. The quick, useless FoS is also the same exact tactic you used last game. Old hat, Debears, old hat.
1) i don't wear a hat2) i rescind my argument. The red text threw me off Scumtell. Howso? Mafia usually wear hats. He's so adamant that he most certainly does NOT wear a hat. Therefore, scumtell. @ CheesecakePlease refrain from joking when talking about scumtells. It's confusing. FoS Cheese The logic is strong with this one. @ CheeseI was re-reading the thread and I really didn't like this "it's a scumtell" joke. I'm not against jokes but scumtells are quite serious business. I've got my eyes on you.
- Two mistakes I made last game, remember? 1.) Feeling like he needs to tell the thread that he's been reading and 2.) reiterating that he is suspicious of me when his stance is clear.
- He also says that "scumtells are srs bizniz" which just seems like he's trying too hard to come off as town, especially when nobody beforehand had even cared about what I had said.
On November 03 2012 12:35 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 12:23 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 12:06 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 12:00 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 10:50 Djodref wrote:
@ debaers
I don't think this one deserves a FoS. When Alsn says that it is technically a lie, that's just Alsn arguing about math and logic. On November 03 2012 11:52 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 11:12 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:11 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 03 2012 11:10 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:09 debears wrote:On November 03 2012 11:04 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:
Debears you seem really paranoid.
[quote]
He didn't call you, Debears the person, a liar. You're taking Alsn's nit-pick of a post awfully personally.
The quick, useless FoS is also the same exact tactic you used last game. Old hat, Debears, old hat.
1) i don't wear a hat2) i rescind my argument. The red text threw me off Scumtell. Howso? Mafia usually wear hats. He's so adamant that he most certainly does NOT wear a hat. Therefore, scumtell. @ CheesecakePlease refrain from joking when talking about scumtells. It's confusing. FoS Cheese The logic is strong with this one. @ CheeseI was re-reading the thread and I really didn't like this "it's a scumtell" joke. I'm not against jokes but scumtells are quite serious business. I've got my eyes on you. There is no reason to tell us that you were reading the thread. We should know you are. This is the exact thing that Nack picked up about my scumplay last game. "This game is serious business" It's a couple hours into the first day, and most of the thread isn't even around. You're really trying to come off as town by plucking this insignificant little fact that everyone else giggled about and passed on by. And - mafia motivation for making a joke? We should get some George Carlins as scum if there is mafia motivation for making someone snicker a little. Also: My humor was mainly kept to the QT last game. Only a few stupid things in the thread were let through. /Engagecheesecakeseriousmode @ CheeseYour joke didn't pose any problem for me the first time (same for everyone I suppose) but I found it weird the second time I past through it. I have no problems with jokes and I'm making some myself. They are a null tell in general. But joking about scum tells is not really acceptable in my opinion and I've explained the possible mafia motivations I've seen behind it.
Again, telling people that he's been reading. Also, there is no mafia motivation behind a little joke so early in the game. There wasn't last game, there ain't this game.
On November 03 2012 12:06 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2012 12:00 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 10:50 Djodref wrote:
@ debaers
I don't think this one deserves a FoS. When Alsn says that it is technically a lie, that's just Alsn arguing about math and logic. On November 03 2012 11:52 Djodref wrote:On November 03 2012 11:12 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:11 Clarity_nl wrote:On November 03 2012 11:10 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:On November 03 2012 11:09 debears wrote:On November 03 2012 11:04 Mr. Cheesecake wrote:Debears you seem really paranoid. On November 03 2012 10:42 debears wrote:
Yeah i am. He calls me a liarin red and then peaces out without wanting to hear my thoughts. Aint that scummy? Considering how active he was around lynch time last game, which was only an hour before this He didn't call you, Debears the person, a liar. You're taking Alsn's nit-pick of a post awfully personally. The quick, useless FoS is also the same exact tactic you used last game. Old hat, Debears, old hat.
1) i don't wear a hat2) i rescind my argument. The red text threw me off Scumtell. Howso? Mafia usually wear hats. He's so adamant that he most certainly does NOT wear a hat. Therefore, scumtell. @ CheesecakePlease refrain from joking when talking about scumtells. It's confusing. FoS Cheese The logic is strong with this one.
Then there's this little snippet, where he doesn't think Alsn deserves a FoS but then he FoS's me right away for no better reason. I found it contradictory.
In additon, I won't re-quote for this one, is his stance on "pressure votes". I understand where he's coming from in his argument, I really do, but his play last time just seems like the same thing Sylver was doing and now he's condemning him for it.
On November 04 2012 05:40 Djodref wrote:
@ Rad
1My main goal with the sudden FoS on Cheese was to spark some discussion. I said it was confusing but it was more a pretext. The truth is that I didn't like it. Using sarcasm was not a brillaint idea but agin, I wanted to show that I was trying to spark discussion.
This one just rang bells for me. Town don't try to show that they are sparking discussion, they just do it.
All this little stuff just sticks right out at me. He tells me not to "nit-pick" at his posts, but I find that hard to do. It's not always someone's actions that denote them as scum (as scumhunting, etc can be faked), it's subtext and rhetoric which are much more difficult to stop doing as scum. It's just like when you guys(Djo+Debears) pick on Sylver for saying townies and not players. We all have our definitions of scumslips, and I don't want to dismiss these simply because he's smileydjo.
As I said before, I'm not going to be looking much more into this because It's just a game of cat and mouse with Djo.
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On November 05 2012 01:11 Djodref wrote:I would like sylver to be considered as a lynch candidate for today as well. I have no problem with me being also a candidate (even if I would have preferred to address the possible cases against me not while waking up) because being mislynched last game allowed me to clearly see who was pushing me for bad reasons. I'm confident that you could recognize my innocence this time And why nobody has yet commented on the newest slip from sylver ? This fixation on supposed slips is making me seriously pissed. The fact that you don't even realise that if anyone has made a slip, it's you with your "vote pressure" slip yet you go along and accuse others for slipping?
Also, would you make up your mind? You want yourself and sylver as lynch candidates too? Why so sylver gets lynched and you won't need to be associated with causing the lynch on Clarity? Do you know that Clarity is town?
Look how easy it is to make up slips. It's ridiculous how much attention they seem to be getting. The worst part is that once you accuse someone, anything they say to defend themselves is basically WIFOM.
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What do you guys think ? It's now 9 hours from lynch and I think it's a good time to decide the lynch candidates for today.
Clarity, sylverfyre and me
Does it seem reasonable for everyone ? Would anyone like to introduce debears on the list ?
I'm putting myself on the list because I'm very interested to see who is going to push for my lynch. But don't you guys mislynch me again !
I'm not sure who to lynch between Clarity and sylverfyre right now.
@ Clarity
I need to go to bed soon and I'm very disappointed that your case against me is not up there right now. I've proposed you to discuss about it before so I'm going to be very mad at you if I wake up and discover a properly timed case against me. You were already pressuring daoud when he was not here and I don't want this to kind of thing to repeat again.
@ Sylverfire
Step up and bring a consistent case against me. By the way, I've already addressed many points that have been reproached to me but I won't mind to address them again.
I really want your comments on your latest slip.
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On November 05 2012 01:16 Rad wrote:
@djo
What slip? Be specific, there's a lot to keep track of here.
Also, don't martyr yourself. TBH that comes across as scummy as hell to me. If you're town, SURVIVE. Your survival would be of more benefit than whatever information you think your death would give, especially since we're just at d1 and everyone's just shooting around in the dark at the moment.
@ Rad
I would imagine that it comes across as scummy but I want to know who is going to push for my lynch
I was very close to have found the whole scumteam last game when I died. This is my motivation to propose myself as a possible lynch candidate.
Here is the slip
On November 04 2012 16:55 Djodref wrote:Show nested quote +On November 04 2012 16:27 sylverfyre wrote:
@Obzy - I made a pressure vote. Debears responded to it. We went back and forth at each other for a while. When we started to get into a loop of OMGUS, I was starting to feel like it was a waste of time and space that wasn't bringing a lot to the town, I let the vote drop. Scum love nothing more than when two townies are at each others throats constantly without looking at other people.
I'm not going to random vote first half of day 1 and follow it through all the way to lynchtime unless my target makes some SERIOUS scumtells under pressure. While debears doesn't exactly look pristine, I need to look at (and scumhunt sniff) more than 1 person on day 1. @ sylverSo are you saying that debears is a townie ? Slipping again ? I'm not sure what you want to say by "he doesn't exactly look pristine". Could you elaborate ?
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EPT
