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Yeah, there is a reason this game was invite after the last disa-gsl, game. Of course it starts while my laptop is put of commission haha. Phpnes and multiple computers for the win.
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Progamer Darthpunk, what about you? Sounds like you're pretty good at scum, and a lot of games as mafia means you're probably pretty good at it, better to get rid of you quickly then. :D
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Of course Hapa, plenty of free time as far as I know, should be posting a bunch. Also a little less afraid to post for various reasons.
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Yeah, I don't think policy lynches are a great idea for forum mafia. Hard to keep to a policy, hard to agree to one, and generally useless. That guy lurking probably isn't mafia, and might just be scared to post because he has a role, or because he doesn't, or something.
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On October 20 2012 09:30 DarthPunk wrote:
I guess I am like Destiny.
Impossible, no dick pics and people don't start holy wars over things you've said (as far as I've seen).
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On October 20 2012 09:31 DarthPunk wrote:
We are not going to have lurkers in this game with this player list.
Right after Hapa asks me if I'm gonna be lurky, haha.
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I can't imagine someone in this game giving a truly awful hammer vote, would probably HAVE to be extreme circumstances.
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I'm in the same camp as Darthpunk, I like playing league of legends, but I'm an sc2progamer. The evils? better than dota2 
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Haha, I was gonna do the same thing for his way of asking me, but I wasn't sure if I wanted to be the first vote.
##Vote DarthPunk
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Well, I kind of thought it was stupid, but yeah, it starts conversation and forces him to reply. Seemed like he was replying pretty well on his own though so I was gonna leave it, but the connection seems to have gone dead.
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Why would scum be afraid of casting a vote? If voting and being active is "town" then casting votes would be the most "town" thing you could do. Nervous town are far more likely to not want to early vote because they might not be sure if it makes them look mafia or not. I'm nervous town.
@iamperfection
As far as what makes me tick? Not sure what you want me to say, I'm a fairly inexperience forum mafia player, I'd like to think I'm not that bad but I'm still pretty nervous about certain things. I watched the last gsl game in despair because of how inactive it was, so I'm trying to be more active than I've ever been. Best flavor of mafia games (IMO) with a gerrible terrible game 2 of the series.
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Just giving my thought process on it, while it may not be WIFOM, it's how I thought of it after the fact (and why I was hesitating on voting in the first place). I don't think Mafia have any need to bandwagon votes in an instant lynch game, could be wrong, but it seems somewhat ineffective as nobody will hammer it if there isn't sufficient reason, and if mafia does hammer it it's going to make them look pretty scummy. Voting also causes conversation, which mafia is likely to be somewhat adverse to for having less chance to scumslip. Just my thoughts on how it works with this scenario, obviously mafia have to make some votes.
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TBH I answered that question just as much as anyone else would, I'm town/progamer of course! I mean, I certainly don't understand the point of it in forum mafia. This isn't teamspeak or IRL mafia where you might be able to tell if someone is lying based on their tone or expression. Nobody is going to role-claim on day 1, that would be retarded. Pretty much answered to spark discussion, just like how I voted. If it came to be n-2 votes for discussion I'd probably unvote, because at that many votes mafia can hammer instantly and probably get away with it if they cover eachother properly.
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Sounds like you're trying to look like you're scum hunting while not actually hunting.
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They certainly are, look at my last newb game where I was singled out early when I was town, I certainly have right to be nervous when out of 3 people you single me out for no reason, kinda gets me jumpy. I'd probably have let you go except for the fact that your defense was utter bull. Can't tell if just stupid or if you have some subtle plot. If pressuring people is good, as you say, and IAMP and I are pressuring you... how is that scummy? 
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I don't think DP is scum, I did however want to get him to talk, I whine and whined and whined and cried over the last gsl game, as I fell it's got one of the best flavors, and I like instant majority/parity cop. If people don't talk, it's a pretty lame game.
We also hadn't had a few people check in or discuss policy, so while hapa and I and IAMP seem to feel that voting causes discussion, I was a little nervous that the others might not feel that way.
For now, I'm going to leave my vote on him, but if things change I'll likely change again to cause discussion. Need to read the thread more and not be playing CS:GO to decide who I want to stimulate
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I was here for like 2 hours after I voted on you o.O I don't think I disappeared, I posted, etc.
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So scum are wishywashy (if I unvoted you), but deciding to keep pressure on you is also scummy? You sir are trying to set a trap to catch a townie, not catch scum.
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I certainly didn't call you town, I said I didn't think you ARE mafia, I have a pretty neutral read on you, I think you got a little too defensive for a townie after your initial questioning was found as illogical.
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On October 21 2012 13:31 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2012 13:28 Keirathi wrote:
I don't really like Draz's explanation either.
...
Second, putting pressure isn't scummy either. But, you're not actually putting pressure on him. You just parked a vote there and haven't done anything with it. THAT is scummy. What is the point of your vote right now? Ooooh I like that point. Interested to see what Draz has to say about this.
There obviously is pressure on DP, he's been antsy about the vote ever since. He also thinks to think that it would fit scum motives to leave a vote on him? Haven't figured out how that works yet. You're all discussing things, and a lot of the discussion has its root cause in my vote on DP, so I'd say it's done a job well served.
##unvote DarthPunk
As far as what I said, it was brought up several times that being flip-floppy or wishy-washy is something that new scum does. We're all trying to establish town cred right now, that's all of our goals, if I was to do anything wishy-washy or flip-floppy, would I be helping myself (As town, or mafia)? I don't think I would be, but I did generate a fair amount of conversation.
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On October 21 2012 14:24 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On October 21 2012 13:45 drazak wrote:On October 21 2012 13:31 Hapahauli wrote:On October 21 2012 13:28 Keirathi wrote:
I don't really like Draz's explanation either.
...
Second, putting pressure isn't scummy either. But, you're not actually putting pressure on him. You just parked a vote there and haven't done anything with it. THAT is scummy. What is the point of your vote right now? Ooooh I like that point. Interested to see what Draz has to say about this. There obviously is pressure on DP, he's been antsy about the vote ever since. He also thinks to think that it would fit scum motives to leave a vote on him? Haven't figured out how that works yet. You're all discussing things, and a lot of the discussion has its root cause in my vote on DP, so I'd say it's done a job well served. ##unvote DarthPunkAs far as what I said, it was brought up several times that being flip-floppy or wishy-washy is something that new scum does. We're all trying to establish town cred right now, that's all of our goals, if I was to do anything wishy-washy or flip-floppy, would I be helping myself (As town, or mafia)? I don't think I would be, but I did generate a fair amount of conversation. Who views scum hunting in the terms 'establishing town cred'?!?! Obviously that is your motive. But it isn't mine. I want to find scum, because I am town. You want to 'establish town cred' because you are scum.
just because you said it like "who does XYZ"... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=301748
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Sorry sorry, I fell asleep last night watching some burn notice, V7 saying he'd post and then not is pretty serious stalling. I'd like to take a bit more of a look at keir but I think I'm going to part a vote on V7 so that he must reply when he returns, I feel that it's certainly been long enough to be after work for him. it's been 16 hours.
##Vote vaderseven
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I think he's stalling and I'd like to see him post, I wanted to see him post last night when I fell asleep, but it was a little too early.
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I'm not AWOL, with family until 10 or 11pm EST, can only phone post, only caught someone calling me awol. Sorry. I'll be back with more in a few hours.
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Ok, I'm home now, will be reading more closely, feel free to ask my questions, I'll reply every little bit while I read.
and yeah hapa, my irc client is connected 24/7, ask someone else from #tlmafia if you want
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ok, from recent times I saw giving a better explaination of my read on vader and my scummiest atm.
V7 disappeared for forever, with no activity, explains it away with work, but if he was going to have work issues like this, why did he accept the invite? At first I voted for him just to get him to talk, tbh there was a vote count between when I started writing the post and when I posted it, I thought there were 2 votes on him, not 3, or I probably wouldn't have voted. When he finally came back, he started claiming that you can't make reads D1? What? 50 games of mafia and you can't make or force reads on D1? Not sure I grok here. Want to see what he says when he wakes up but he's not going to be around for awhile.
I feel like keir is probably a little scummy, he over-reacted a bit when accused, which is ok, but then he says I'm being scummy, and then his next post... defends me? Not sure I understood that, while contradicting yourself is scummy, I'm not sure why you'd do it. You're agressively defensive and then cover all of your over reactions by saying you'll flip out over it, what? You should be home by now, not sure why you think threatening to flip out helps defend your over-reactions, not sure why you'd say that.
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On October 22 2012 10:48 Hapahauli wrote:
No no I think we're not understanding each other. Take some time to read the thread, come back tomorrow, and give us better-informed reads. What you're giving us right now is absolutely useless, both for determining your alignment and helping town at all.
On October 22 2012 10:58 vaderseven wrote:
I can do that.
Darth ^
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@Keir
You asked where you attacked me and then defended me, here it is:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16628794
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16629084
You also asked my thought process behind why being so agressive with your defense makes you scum and not townie. If you were frustrated townie you wouldn't have to blanket cover all of your over reactions, scum has to cover everything they do, not just some of it. A frustrated townie starts getting agressive with their scum hunting instead of just saying they're going to yell at you, I mean, wtf does yelling at someone even do?
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Not to defend hapa too much, but I know when I've read things, I think different things whehter or not I'm hungry, or if other things are going on in my life, maybe he reconsidered after reading something again.
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On October 23 2012 05:27 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 05:27 iamperfection wrote:
Posting from phone dont lynch z-bos wait untll I get home please. So you don't find him scummy then? Do tell.
I don't think he doesn't find him scummy, he just doesn't want the hammer while he's afk, might have someone else he finds scummier.
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Ok, I'm here, going to be posting a bunch tonight, I had students to tutor that told me monday they had a test wednesday, and as my laptop isn't working (see earlier post) I couldn't really post for bed, and I was too tired to sit up at my pc after class and tutoring and any work things I've dealt with lately.
So scum didn't get a kill last night, correct? That means we have to have a medic yeah? That means we have either a Boxer or a parity cop. I saw there were some accusations against me because of how I've beem posting, and my lack of posting, my bad, I was even in a hurry this morning because I slept in. Just caught up on the thread so some things might be obvious, ask me questions while I figure out who to ask questions and what about.
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Wow, that post, I skimmed it before, but reading it again,I'm really starting to believe it, it's pretty comprehensive and those signs are pretty exact. I think if we lynch marv and he's scum, whomever the medic is has to save hapa because that wouldn't be a bus, but if marv isn't scum, maybe lynch hapa the next day?
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To me, your play is pretty neutral, but based on the meta evidence? I think you're scum. I have no problem voting youbased on the meta evidence.
##vote marvellosity
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Can you provide me with evidence to the contrary then? Town games in your last 10 or so games where you play like you have this game?
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Hey DP, did you actually read all of Hapa's post? Did you follow the links? Cause if you do you'll find out what I'm talking about here, If there are games to the contrary that marv can show regarding his meta, I'd love to see them, and happily unvote. AFAIK from what hapa has told me about his own play when coaching me, and what he did this game, he's doing what he does as town (or what he does every game, which is null)
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I mean, if we're wrong, and hapa's read is wrong, then shit, mislynch, hope doc makes a good save, hope parity cop is alive or boxer knows when to claim, and then go after hapa as long as there's no good evidence to his defense. Marv hasn't adequately defended himself by anyone's means as far as I'm concerned, why are you so defensive of him DP?
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DP bro, sorry that I had a life and that it snuck up on me, wish I didn't have to be afk for as long as I did, but with my laptop giving me issues I have to be at my desktop to post, I read a little bit of the thread on my phone but I had to reread it to make sure I had it when I was on my pc. while you may classify voting for marv as "sheeping" look at his filter, he's got no good defense to hapa's accusation, he says that hapa is cherry picking cases, but if he is then there should be ample evidence to the contrary regarding his meta.
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So austin, you're saying I made posts like the posts I made when I was town? So you're saying I'm fitting my town meta?
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Austin, you quoted my posts from my games where I say things like "I don't think his vote this" etc, I'm town this game, and saying those things that I said when I was town in those games.
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On October 24 2012 10:32 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 10:30 Hapahauli wrote:On October 24 2012 10:28 austinmcc wrote:
There is more to Drazak than that post. I would still like to hear thoughts on the quotes that felt scummy to me. Which post are you talking about? I'd look, but I've been filter diving through marv's meta for hours >> You or someone asked about that a moment ago and I quoted it and stuck it in a spoiler! And by you or someone, I mean...you. You asked. Show nested quote +On October 24 2012 09:44 austinmcc wrote:On October 24 2012 09:39 Hapahauli wrote:
Oh, and can you refer me to what post in particular you're talking about austin (regarding Drazak)?
And the above post was directed at marv ofc. Specifically the 2 quotes that I pull out, which I find similar to odd defenses/comments that other scum players have made in the past + Show Spoiler +On October 24 2012 04:07 austinmcc wrote:I don't support/like/whatever this "Drazak has been mislynched before for looking scummy, therefore we shouldn't lynch him for looking scummy" argument. We can't fully determine his alignment right now. Based on how this game has played out during a long D1 and now N1, we're not GOING to be able to fully determine his alignment, because he's not posting much at all. He's going to come up every day. He's going to be a mislynch candidate, sure, but best to get him out of the way before LYLO, and he's also a scum candidate. You guys may not have as many town reads as I do, but we're in a very small game. If you've got 2-3 town reads and know you're town, you've seriously narrowed down the options for possible scum. Things are narrow enough in my mind that "doesn't seem townie" + "not many options" + the stuff below = probably scum Drazak. Here's why I'm concerned about Drazak mainly. He was relatively active in the beginning. Since then, he's clammed up significantly. I was hoping he'd start posting more, especially if people weren't jumping all over him, because yeah, it's difficult to get a read on him right now. But the part of his filter that keeps sticking out to me are things like: Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 04:50 drazak wrote:
Not to defend hapa too much, but I know when I've read things, I think different things whehter or not I'm hungry, or if other things are going on in my life, maybe he reconsidered after reading something again. Show nested quote +On October 23 2012 05:32 drazak wrote:On October 23 2012 05:27 Hapahauli wrote:On October 23 2012 05:27 iamperfection wrote:
Posting from phone dont lynch z-bos wait untll I get home please. So you don't find him scummy then? Do tell. I don't think he doesn't find him scummy, he just doesn't want the hammer while he's afk, might have someone else he finds scummier. those read very scummy to me because of statements in recent games. I can't NOT look at those and see: Show nested quote +On October 01 2012 17:40 Node wrote:
I don't think Shady Sands is scum -- at least, not given what we've seen so far. His "trolling" antics were silly, but they weren't scummy. If he were scum, I don't think he would've dropped the trolling pretext so quickly, and I certainly don't think he would be willing to reappear and start pushing targets.
Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 05:29 Sinensis wrote:On September 28 2012 04:46 phagga wrote:
Sinensis, while you are here, I would like to know your stance on Ottoxlol. I think Ottoxlol believes he's being unfairly voted for. I'm null on him. I think the worst thing he's done is instead of formulating a proper defense (against something that really didn't need defending against), he tried to shift the blame onto others...BUT he wasn't trying to shift the blame onto 1 or 2 other people, he was trying to shift the blame back onto everyone. That's why I think he just believes he's being treated unfairly and is just lashing out at everyone else. This doesn't strike me as scummy so much as just bad town play. Aside from that all he's done is be critical of SnB's play. Which I understand because SnB has been posting weird stuff this game. First there was the random lynch suggestion. He posted this too: On September 27 2012 05:22 strongandbig wrote:
what about vt's fakeclaiming boxer
lets all claim boxer I've said a lot already about why VTs shouldn't be fake claiming. Was SnB fishing for people to agree with him or is he suggesting something that benefits mafia on purpose? ANYWAY I just think Ottoxlol is understandably concerned with SnB's play, and I think in the future Ottoxlol should start making proper defenses instead of blaming everyone else. To me, defending people out of nowhere for odd reasons - Node defending Shady for things he hadn't done, Sinensis saying things like "I think Ottoxlol believes he's being unfairly voted for" stick out. Townies read posts, townies make reads, townies justify their reads with posts. Scum knows alignments, scum sometimes justify reads out of nowhere with...non-post stuff? They're trying to give a read but it's clear that they're not getting it from the same place a town player would be. Drazak's comments feel like that. Hapa made a comment about leaving to eat, and Drazak partially defends him by saying that he thinks differently whether he's hungry or full. It's like...a very odd reason to justify what someone was poking at hapa about. It's not intra-thread, it's this weird external defense. The bit on Z-BosoN is...not as good, that comment isn't as out of place, but again it's like...Drazak explaining something based on stuff that wasn't in thread. Just those two posts are enough to make me scummy on Drazak, enough to lynch because there are so few other options. It's also just very simple. I've had better luck with simple reads (Quick readthrough of GSL Open 2 N1 before dying, quick readthrough of Liquid City D1 after being absent (although LC not as much because I went crazy the next day)) than I have with overly complex ones. So I'm going to go with my gut and say that the simple weird statements and outside-the-game comments make him scum.
Here you quote 2 of my posts from other games that are pretty similar to posts I made in this game, I've been town all 3 games.
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I'm reading the thread DP, but I don't get how his connection makes sense, if I'm scum because of those posts, but they're the same kinds of posts that I make in town games, how am I scum this game? None of that even makes sense, which is why I don't understand. If that's not enough reason to think I'm town, I'm not sure what else I have to do, this is a small game, but I have town reads on Hapa and DP for how agressive hapa has been, and how willing to look at different players and play reactionarily that he's been. I also have a pretty good town read on austin because of how he's been playing, also the fac that nobody was lynched last night. while it may be WIFOM, if I was mafia I'd probably have lynched Austin last night, someone probably saved him (or maybe hapa or DP, but if I were a medic, austin would probably be my #1 save)
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oh, I definitely misread, here, I swear I made similar posts about someone in a recent game I've been in, maybe it was an irc game. deeeerrrr.
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And this is what happens when you mafia tired. Bleh.
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It does? I've never thought about it that way. As someone who's played siginificantly more irl mafia than forum mafia, speculating about NKs is pretty much half of your day logic. Who kills who, who knows who is a good player, etc. That's just how I think still, not sure if anyone else plays much IRL mafia.
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Also I'm sorry, but I could have sworn I made a post like one of those before, maybe it was in irc mafia or something, but that's kind of how I always think about things, why someone would vote, etc, Also, I like to consider the person making posts as a human, I like to think about what else could be going on in their lives, why they might reinterpret something, I do it all the time depending on if I'm tired/hungry/emotional, etc, not sure why it's a scummy think to think about this and to bring it up whens someone is accused of reinterpreting something. We're all human and have human shit going on.
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Austin was being a really good town, which is why I have a strong town read on him, his analysis is strong, he posts a lot, he seems to read significantly better than I am tonight, it's just speculation though. I mean, I pretty much clearly said that it was speculation, that's how I play.
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As long as I'm around, I'm willing to be open and defend myself a ton, the problem is when I'm not here, I don't feel comfortable posting on my phone unless I have to.
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You mean his lack of defense and his scumstall?
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I find Z-bo a little scummy, I'm not sure what he's up to though, he hammered v7 and we didn't agree on the hammer, and people were saying to wait on hammering him until they could get a better read, that bothers me a little. Maybe he just wanted to move the game along, but I'm not sold he had a more solid scum read on v7 than anyone else, but hammered anyway.
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He did say fuck off to you hapa, but yeah, he doesn't seem to be as angry as those other games, not sure if whiny, but certainly not as angry.
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Yeah, not disagreeing with you there at all.
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So I changed your mind DP?
@Austin
I really really don't like the hammer, and I don't find his scum hunting that good, but to be fair, my scum hunting hasn't been that great either, I kind of feel like he's trying, but he hasn't sold me on anything, I think the hammer is something scum might do, and then he's allayed suspicion and isn't being investigated that much today. I really think if marv flips scum he'd be someone to look at as the other part of the team.
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marv bro, where are your reads? you promised them in the morning, and you're not making good.
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yeah man, ad hominem is certainly the answer, I was open with my reads when people asked me, try again please.
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I find it insanely odd how marv calls those cases cherry picked and then can't come up with other cases to his defense, obviously if they're cherry picked it's because there are other cases contrary to them, but I haven't seen any yet.
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On October 25 2012 07:06 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 25 2012 07:03 drazak wrote:
I find it insanely odd how marv calls those cases cherry picked and then can't come up with other cases to his defense, obviously if they're cherry picked it's because there are other cases contrary to them, but I haven't seen any yet. Still curious about this: in reference to marv. Why was his play neutral to you? Specifically, what posts, what actions, etc.
He had a few reads, but nothing that great, which shows that he was atleast trying to look town, he hasn't pushed any case really really hard like some of the other people who I have stronger town reads on.
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If there's a parity cop or another boxer, maybe claim up, don't think it's fake though.
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What? I'd have to have been jumping on really quick to the bus, I was the first vote after hapa. Besides, based on everything Ihear about marv, I'd think he'd be more likely to bus me than get bussed himself.
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Lol, I probably wouldn't have medic slipped like that if DP wasn't being a dick about it, if it was just the one post it wouldn't have been much of a slip, just speculation that I could use as a bread crumb later.
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yeah, I was going to post 1 minute before night end regarding who I saved and that I was medic, which means if mafia doesn't kill me, I get another day to live and austin maybe lives.
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EPT
