GSL Mini Mafia III

On October 20 2012 10:20 DarthPunk wrote:


why would a townie think someone was so scummy that they wished to vote for that person and not mention it at all until they could jump on someone else's bandwagon whilst saying 'yeah I thought that all along'

Also. Your entire defense was WIFOM.

On October 20 2012 11:49 Hapahauli wrote:


Any experience playing mafia beyond GSL I?

Also, describe yourself so we may form a scumhunting team of super-friends!

Also also, respond to mundane policy talk plz:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376602&currentpage=2#25

That goes for you too Kei =D

On October 20 2012 12:10 vaderseven wrote:


Really you stand by that?

You don't care about the alignment someone claims (and why should you at this stage of day 1, it would be joke posts at best)... and you want to peg someone on either claiming their role or lieing about in thread. When asked to explain it you don't fall back on 'jokepost lol' and instead give us this line about setting someone up to be caught in a lie?

I r confused. Thats like too scummy in a bad way to be possibly true. I have to write it off as just stupid.

On October 21 2012 00:46 Hapahauli wrote:
Yah I'm a bit surprised at how little Kei has contributed so far. Early D1 caveats of course, but I always had the impression that his town play was very active on the early days.

On October 20 2012 23:58 Z-BosoN wrote:
Right now I'm more interested in Keirathi. Made this one easy-to-make post, and didn't really stick around, made no other comments. This seems to me like too easy of a post for someone like Keir to make, and doesn't seem genuine.

On October 21 2012 01:34 Z-BosoN wrote:
Well I got sniped. Anyways,



Why the overreaction? I found your post to be an useless agreement that didn't add anything, and your lack of follow-up even more suspicious. The underlined is why I didn't find it to be genuine, given that there were a string of posts after your own which dealt with it.
I fully agree that it was dumb, but you left no opinion of it. That's just saying something and drawing no conclusions from it, and even worse, not looking like you want to draw any conclusions.
I can be wrong here, but your post to me didn't feel genuine and I think that makes you suspicious.

On October 21 2012 01:47 Hapahauli wrote:


Oh hai again - I actually completely forgot about your GSL I game as scum (even though you specifically talked to me about it before >>).

But I am curious what you think of DP's "plan" from an alignment perspective. We all had rather harsh things to say about it, but I think it's pretty townie. Et toi?

On October 21 2012 01:59 Z-BosoN wrote:
The point is not to say "he's still neutral".
It's just a reasonable thing to inquire from you. You ask someone to answer for something, this someone answers it, and it's expected that you post a follow-up. You find something weird enough to call bullshit on, and just like that you don't bother again, and actually feel like this is warranted later on? I'm not buying your defense here.

On October 21 2012 09:45 drazak wrote:
So scum are wishywashy (if I unvoted you), but deciding to keep pressure on you is also scummy? You sir are trying to set a trap to catch a townie, not catch scum.

On October 21 2012 14:24 DarthPunk wrote:


Who views scum hunting in the terms 'establishing town cred'?!?! Obviously that is your motive. But it isn't mine. I want to find scum, because I am town. You want to 'establish town cred' because you are scum.

On October 22 2012 01:00 DarthPunk wrote:


I know there must be things I need to change or play around. It bugs me.

On October 22 2012 01:05 DarthPunk wrote:


I post bullshit cases as either alignment.

On October 22 2012 01:08 Z-BosoN wrote:
Sniped by austin. There we are, finally. Now waiting for the two days of unforgiving tunneling from him
Hello Keirathi! How goes your scum life?
Any thoughts you would like to trouble us with?

On October 22 2012 01:18 DarthPunk wrote:


So who is scummy? Everyone loves giving town reads this game it seems.

On October 22 2012 05:50 marvellosity wrote:
I'm not exactly sure. A couple of posts later in his filter he explains he was just calling out bullshit and didn't read anything alignment-y from it. But then if that's the case, then the contributions were just pointless and not really contributions.

I think Kei is playing pretty scummily - but what gives me pause is in his recent post, he just told town he doesn't really have any reads. Given he's under some pressure, it makes little sense for a scum Kei to do that. But then I find myself going around in stupid little wifom circles. What do you think?

On October 22 2012 05:13 austinmcc wrote:
Keirathi then pops in to comment on v7's post:He's much more forceful in what he's saying. "I call bullshit" "There were many acceptable replies...yours was not one of them."

Actually keirathi's response is also interesting to me. iamperfection votes DP, for reasons keirathi seems to agree with. Keirathi calls DP's response bullshit and unacceptable, and...that's it. There's no vote, no FOS, no further comment. "You have given a bullshit/unacceptable response to a vote...carry on." Kind of odd to me.


Kei doesn't comment any further. Doesn't follow-up on this.

On October 22 2012 06:22 marvellosity wrote:


To what end? He explained and you ended up getting... nothing from it basically? And there's so god-damn little else in your filter to hang my hat on.

On October 22 2012 06:31 marvellosity wrote:


Would you, ya know, fancy doing something else than that? Shouting at people and going "I'm gonna flip out if you lynch me even though all I'm doing is shouting at you" is, well. I think you get it.

On October 22 2012 07:41 marvellosity wrote:
austin, I'd like to hear what you (and anyone else) has to say about Kei before I get my voting shoes on.

In a 9 player game, having 1 player who basically refuses to give us anything to hold him accountable to (i.e. reads) it's a fucking liability.

Actually I'd really like to hear what drazak has to say about Keirathi.

On October 22 2012 07:00 Hapahauli wrote:


DP has 5 pages of filter already and you consider him only slightly town?

On October 22 2012 07:54 marvellosity wrote:


You should know I take full responsibility for any lynch I'm voting on.

If I were confident you were scum I'd have my vote on you now. I'll take a hard stance when I feel a hard stance. I'm canvassing opinion because I'm unsure on my read. If I had to yes/no now? Then yes, dear.

On October 22 2012 08:00 marvellosity wrote:


Because I actually have fleshed out thoughts on several of the players in the game?

Hapa - I'm wary of meta in Kei's case is because I know how aware of it he is. The little fucker correctly metaing kush as town on how I hard-defended him in Liquid.

On October 22 2012 08:03 marvellosity wrote:


eh, I meant that in general you have a strong grasp of meta and its uses.

On October 22 2012 07:59 austinmcc wrote:
I'd like to hear what he thinks about DeePgate overall, not about DP himself but about the rest of us who interacted with him. And hopefully there's enough recent action that he can comment on someone.

On October 22 2012 08:19 marvellosity wrote:


Naw, not planned out, but the thing that made me think about it was the first post where he was like "meh, I don't have reads".

Anyways, not really willing to give a time to hammer on vader. We'll do it when it's time to do it.

On October 22 2012 08:23 marvellosity wrote:


Yes, I know dear. Can you see why I might be having difficulty? ^^

On October 22 2012 08:40 Hapahauli wrote:


Not sure if I'm allowed to use out-of-thread evidence, but he's on #tlmafia IRC ya know.

On October 22 2012 09:19 iamperfection wrote:
I was under the impression from my first newbie game that Keriathi was a very good player so his statements about not having any reads bug the fuck out of me. I don't get why he doesn't want to throw shit out there even if he dosen't feel particularly strong about it. Maybe its cause i have the opposite approach usually saying whatever i think but i hold him to higher standard then i do draz so his stupid shit dosent fly with me so ill say scum.

Austin and Z-bo have been sharing a lot so i would say town for now.

and even though you didn't ask I'm null on you. i'll never trust you after are first meeting.

On October 22 2012 09:22 iamperfection wrote:

i was trying to give you a compliment sort of

On October 22 2012 09:46 marvellosity wrote:


How would you feel if town lynched vader? Would you think it a good lynch? A bad lynch?

On October 22 2012 11:16 iamperfection wrote:

yes i think refusal to give reads on players is bullshit and its scum behavior.

Same goes for you Keirathi.

On October 22 2012 11:36 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Kei

Please comment on things other than just defending yourself. That would be much more helpful.

On October 22 2012 12:28 drazak wrote:
ok, from recent times I saw giving a better explaination of my read on vader and my scummiest atm.

V7 disappeared for forever, with no activity, explains it away with work, but if he was going to have work issues like this, why did he accept the invite? At first I voted for him just to get him to talk, tbh there was a vote count between when I started writing the post and when I posted it, I thought there were 2 votes on him, not 3, or I probably wouldn't have voted. When he finally came back, he started claiming that you can't make reads D1? What? 50 games of mafia and you can't make or force reads on D1? Not sure I grok here. Want to see what he says when he wakes up but he's not going to be around for awhile.

I feel like keir is probably a little scummy, he over-reacted a bit when accused, which is ok, but then he says I'm being scummy, and then his next post... defends me? Not sure I understood that, while contradicting yourself is scummy, I'm not sure why you'd do it. You're agressively defensive and then cover all of your over reactions by saying you'll flip out over it, what? You should be home by now, not sure why you think threatening to flip out helps defend your over-reactions, not sure why you'd say that.

On October 22 2012 22:47 iamperfection wrote:

i would hold a candle light vigil in your honor if you flipped town.

i think its a moot point to keep hammering this point. you even said yourself its a terrible mindset that has gotten you lynched in the past. also its concerning that you called out for it in gsl I.


you were scum remember.


Me representing the town i am asking you to change nay begging you to change. If you are scum continue i have no problem pushing a lynch on you at this point. Shape up or die.

On October 22 2012 20:54 marvellosity wrote:


This might be one of the most infuriating things I've ever read in mafia.

Douchebag who does ZERO scumhunting calls others lazy scumhunters. Fuck you.

On October 22 2012 20:58 marvellosity wrote:
The case boiled down to its absolute simplest form, if you'd like that, is this:

who benefits from doing jack shit for town? town or scum?

Right.

On October 23 2012 00:16 austinmcc wrote:
btw, apart from my normal paranoia, this is one thing that makes me suspicious of marv. I know he doesn't like to play setup games, but I would expect townmarv to be a little more bloodthirsty, be pushing someone a little more, and not be willing to play infinite D1 pattycake.

Am I the only one with this thought? Are people just worried to type it out because "let's lynch someone NOW, instead of later with more information" feels like it might be anti-town?

On October 23 2012 01:13 DarthPunk wrote:


That ZB just doesn't say things like that as town. That is the kind of thing I say as scum.

I already had a bad feeling about ZB because there are a couple of town tells of his that he hasn't conformed to this game. I have played in his last 4 games. And this just doesn't fit with how he deals with 'liabilities' Be it grush or BM or Kush or Shady. I have never EVER seen this argument from him in regards to far worse players in far worse situations.

Town ZB requires MUCH more than that to lynch someone and usually doesn't like lynching 'liabilities' or Lurkers at all. He is MUCH more likely to make an alternative case of his own than to go along with the prevailing sentiment.

Also his play this game has been eerily similar to his scum meta from XXIV. He even admits it. And blames it on activity. But he has still been fairly active. So that is no reason for ZB to be playing to his scum meta.

That is why I don't want to lynch V7 anymore.

On October 21 2012 22:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
@Town
atm I don't have any real suspect that I'd be willing to place my vote on. I'm leaning townie on Drazak and DarthPunk.
Not too sure on Hapahauli, his play right now seems a bit passive compared to his usual self. Feels like he's using the same tell over and over again (i.e. posting something than disappearing) and being a little uncharacteristically calm with his pressuring.
My top suspicions, nevertheless, are iamperfection, Keirathi and v7.
I will not be placing my vote on v7 yet, at least until he has a chance to defend himself and make any sort of contribution. I feel his absence is not necessarily alignment-indicative, for now.

@marv
How has Keir not been receiving attention, I spent quite some time tunneling him. I'll point this out once again, which is something I'm finding important and would like to see your comment on. When I questioned him about his lack of follow-up, he mentioned his IRL excuses, which was already perfectly fair, but he felt the need to add this:



Which, to me, feels like an attempt of an additional excuse.

Also, I find it interesting that you did not mention iamperfection, who's championed his first vote on DarthPunk and made no further comment on it, which I'm finding increasingly scummy - as Liquid City iamperfection was much more active and helpful.

@Keirathi
I will leave you alone for now, in regards to the above.
Anyways, a question on the bolded part:


Does this mean you also have a scum read on iamperfection? He basically did the same thing, and went awol.

On October 23 2012 03:14 austinmcc wrote:
Keirathi:
I wrote some stuff here but it was super wishy-washy and it's just my thoughts that don't go anywhere. So instead, could you update your read on iamperfection, in long-form?

He's not being talked about, but you said he felt "kind of town" and noted that you felt confident in meta-reading him. Could you just blabber on in a post or two about what read you get from him based on his play this game and based on meta?

On October 20 2012 10:01 iamperfection wrote:

Im all for using votes to apply pressure and we don't have to worry about someone doing a stupid hammer it wont happen. However all this policy talk bores me time for some action.


blatant blue hunting darthpunk. Why not ask alignment instead of role?

Talk to me darthpunk i wish to know more.
## Vote DarthPunk

On October 23 2012 03:46 austinmcc wrote:

Thanks. Is it possible for you to block your knowledge of the player, and tell me how you'd read him if you'd never played with him before, if some unknown name had made his posts this game?

On October 23 2012 04:26 vaderseven wrote:
Ok reread entire thread again. Reading filters now.

Keirath-
Very neutral or careful play.
Somewhat defensive.
Makes a solid lil case on zboson.
Neutral to town read for now.

On October 23 2012 03:30 Z-BosoN wrote:
DP, that's a real bad tell.
From liquid city:


Also, I don't get why people are thinking I'm sheeping. First of all, there's not really much to say on v7.
Second of all, I actually did spend quite some time pondering whether I should give the vote hammer or not. Why are you attacking me right now, and not before? Makes 0 sense.
The hapa thing, I attacked him because he unvoted v7 when I completely disagreed with his reasoning to do so.

@Hapa
All of a sudden? So I spend like 10 posts saying why I think you are suspicious, and you say, "all of a sudden"?
Fuck off. Not willing to lynch you != I think you are townie.

I have no heart defending myself here. Most of this shit comes from a lack of reading and erratic interpretations. I've made cases vs. kei and hapa, but concluded that v7 deserved the best lynch. How is this fucking scummy? Better yet, how is this scummier over ppl like kei and v7 who aren't doing shit?

Wanna talk about sheeping? Try Kei, who hasn't done shit and suddenly goes for me as soon as DP opens the door.

On October 23 2012 09:13 Z-BosoN wrote:
Well, well, you are quick to pounce.
I found the probability of him lying greater than the one of him telling the truth and playing like he is. He's had forever to contribute.
99.99% you say?
I think you just very well claimed scum here really. Even if I was scum, a townie wouldn't have so much certainty on that fact with my filter, especially with the entirety of your case solely residing on my stance of v7. You are just fake-tunneling hard now, my friend.

On October 23 2012 09:23 Z-BosoN wrote:
Btw,


Interesting idea of discussion:

On October 23 2012 10:01 iamperfection wrote:
people need to stop ignoring my posts when im town it happens every fucking game basically. When i say wait it means wait.

Although i would of pushed v7 even if i had gotten back in time fucker had to go so im not really mad

Any who another post that got ignored that i should have probably pushed harder when i made it was this one




Kerihati used the same fucking argument when he was scum in gsl 1. He Basically he argues this how i always act and thats why he was doing this.

My scum read on Kerihati remains and his stupid argument after the flip even makes less sense since he observed gsl II. People used shit arguments to blame ottoxol for being scum in that game just because he droped a hammer. I think droping a hammer is a null tell and the fact that kerihati blatantly abandoned all logic makes me think he is scum.

On October 23 2012 10:57 marvellosity wrote:


uh huh.

On October 23 2012 10:59 marvellosity wrote:
when have you ever known me to apologise?

On October 23 2012 11:05 marvellosity wrote:


I think austin actually takes great delight in his post that he's used across multiple games about my wrong reads.

I do find it interesting though that you characterise any case against you, by anyone really, as weak, lazy, *insert word here*.

If you can show me you're town, I'll reconsider my read. Hell, I even gave Palmar in Rock Band a chance. This hammer shit is NOT it.

On October 23 2012 10:01 austinmcc wrote:

Ya. I get what you're grok-ing at, but I don't think it makes any sense.

If both the vote AND hammer were suboptimal or optimal, then I could think Z-BosoN was scum or scum mastermind. If there's a mix, then I find it more likely the townie response is real, and not the result of scum mastermind Z-BosoN, or else I would expect different play concerning the vote/hammer.

On October 23 2012 21:24 marvellosity wrote:


Kei, why is it too convenient? Can you explain that please?

I had a look at Z-Bo's filter from Liquid City. He sheeped on to Node with very little explanation, only after being prodded explaining that it was a policy lynch because he couldn't find anything better. Perhaps the starkest difference is that he went "fuck it, I'm voting coag", taking his own path. But he was lynching coag for being contentless and not scumhunting, similar to vader.

I don't really see why in a 9 player mini like this his behaviour is marked as so drastically different. I get the feeling that people are wielding meta in a far too particular, minutiae manner. Most of my meta reads are pretty broad stroke - e.g. Rockband, Palmar - doesn't give a shit about town, Hiro - less invested but capable of long analysis posts. Rather than "I don't think he does this particular thing in this situation"

As one of the hosts in his scum game, my main feeling was that he wasn't that invested in town until things started getting heated day 3, whereas my feeling this game is that he is much more invested than that. That, my friends, is MY meta read.

What say you rabble? ^^

On October 22 2012 08:00 marvellosity wrote:
I'm wary of meta in Kei's case is because I know how aware of it he is. The little fucker correctly metaing kush as town on how I hard-defended him in Liquid.

On October 22 2012 08:03 marvellosity wrote:
eh, I meant that in general you have a strong grasp of meta and its uses.

On October 21 2012 22:16 Z-BosoN wrote:
My top suspicions, nevertheless, are iamperfection, Keirathi and v7.
I will not be placing my vote on v7 yet, at least until he has a chance to defend himself and make any sort of contribution. I feel his absence is not necessarily alignment-indicative, for now.

On October 22 2012 00:39 Z-BosoN wrote:
From playing every single fucking him he's on, DP's meta seems to be pretty much like his townie one.
Or he has learned the fine art of faking his town day1 meta. Let us wait and see.
Right now I do not want to lynch either DP or Drazak. Hapa and marv will evidently have to wait (though I'm a bit weary of you both). Can't make scum reads out of iamp, austin. So, in my POV, that leaves Keir and v7 to be lynched.
v7 is certainly looking like the more juicier target. I'm not sure I want to kill him just yet before he's had a chance to defend himself. What do you guys propose?

On October 22 2012 04:25 Z-BosoN wrote:
I'm seriously looking into Keir/v7. Since Keir is actually showing his face, I'm almost almost almost willing to plunge the hammer on v7. I can't think of a better lynch than him, and his absence is just dragging the game out.

On October 23 2012 03:30 Z-BosoN wrote:
First of all, there's not really much to say on v7.

On October 23 2012 08:39 Z-BosoN wrote:
vaderseven
v7's play is extremely lynch-worthy. For some reason, he is only posting via his phone, and that's why his posts feel disconnected from the thread. I don't understand this, however, makes little sense why he wouldn't post from his computer at all, both from a scum and from a town perspective.
However, he banks himself on experience, says he's playing a bunch of games. The general tone of his posts during the game are much different from the pre game one. Compare:


To:


.
Extremely big change. Why is he only posting from his phone? Why would he join the game if he's on 14-hours work days?
Doesn't really make much sense. He could be faking his meta or something like that, for whatever reason.

I just can't understand him...

On October 24 2012 00:23 Z-BosoN wrote:
lol kei.
So this:

Makes me 99.99% scum.
Yea...

On October 24 2012 00:27 Z-BosoN wrote:
@Kei
Gonna keep quoting this every time now, until you get through your thick head that this makes perfect sense for me being town rather than me being scum:

On October 24 2012 00:28 marvellosity wrote:


Ok, so with the Node knowledge, where does that leave you exactly?

And what do you see as the scum motivation for coming up with reasons you deem ridiculous, when he could easily have said anything much more sensible sounding if he just wanted to hammer? Actually that question is kinda icky, but I'd like you to answer anyways

On October 24 2012 02:27 Hapahauli wrote:


Thoughts on my iamp case good sir?

On October 24 2012 04:25 iamperfection wrote:



i believe i chimed in from my phone. i couldn't be involved sorry? i guess. had work. And you know what even if was here i still would have left my vote on vaderseven the guy did nothing to make me think he was town.

so basically your case boils down to i didnt act like you. Vaderseven came across to me like he was full of crap so i make no apologies for leaving my vote on him.

On October 24 2012 06:35 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Marv

Regarding iamp's "candle-light" thing, I initially thought that was the case as well (responding to Kei). However, iamperfection's more recent post (his clarification of that post) suggests my interpretation:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=376602&currentpage=31#607

In it, he very clearly refers to that post as having a scumread on him.

Regarding misrepresenting iamp's suspicions (in particular the vote on v7 vs. Kei's suspicions)
Yah that's totally my bad. However, my other points still stand, namely his random FOS on me, his town read on Draz, and more recently, his uncharacteristically passive defense.

And btw, I find it funny you still haven't commented on iamperfection's alignment at all.

But I'm working on a case on you anyway - it'll take a little while to type.

marv wrote:
I'm doing my absolute best to try to figure out what's what, and so far I've been having a bad game and it sucks.

On October 23 2012 11:01 Keirathi wrote:

When have you ever been so wrong before (assuming you are town. which i'm not totally convinced of, ofc)? Certainly not in any game that I've played with you. I've literally never seen you make such a weak case, so if you believe that strongly in it, I'll expect that apology after I flip town.

On October 24 2012 08:35 marvellosity wrote:
I read the fucking case. I don't have massive emotional over-reactions every time I play town (see palmar omgus) nor do I very often play in a game with smurfs where I'm devoid of a lot of information I normally have.

How am I disinterested??

On October 24 2012 08:47 marvellosity wrote:


Taking out your usual 'meta', how easy did you find it to make progress this game? You made a few posts during the DP thing when I was away, but apart from that you struggled to make anything happen.Can you not see my perspective ??

On October 24 2012 08:56 marvellosity wrote:
fuck off, hapa.

On October 24 2012 14:52 Keirathi wrote:
Bleh I started writing a bunch of stuff then almost fell asleep. Trying to think after drinking isn't quit as easy as I was hoping

Marv has moved pretty far up my scum reads. Maybe even higher than ZB at this point. I don't want to hammer tonight, but I do expect his long defense that he promised when I wake up.

Also a quick question marv: Do you still think I am scum? Maybe me and Hapa for coming up with the exact same case at nearly the exact same time? You obviously think Hapa is scum, but if not me, who is your second candidate? Hell, if you still think I am your second candidate, who is your third and why?

On October 24 2012 15:13 DarthPunk wrote:
Keir. f your still around. Who is your top candidate for marv's partner if he is scum?

On October 24 2012 09:03 marvellosity wrote:


Mostly true. I leant town on quite a few players.

The closest comparison game is Dwarf Fortress, where I made 2 votes all day - first on Custos for not caring about town and secondly on prplhz for not caring about town. I thought a lot about the other flavour of the day in that game (forumite), decided I didn't want to lynch him, and then did remarkably little to stop him getting lynched.

My last scum game, Liquid City - how many people did I express suspicions/scumreads on? Many. Let's meta my last scum game and this game then?

On October 25 2012 01:38 Hapahauli wrote:
Morning folks



Yeah it's not so much your play - it's associative. Bussing is horrendously risky with only 2 scum-members, and if marv is scum, I doubt he'd spend so much time putting heat on you throughout D1 and D2 - ESPECIALLY since you were a target of suspicion.

On October 25 2012 02:09 Hapahauli wrote:


Perhaps, but the problem here is that townies weren't really shutting marv down - especially early N1. I may or may not reconsider after marv flips with new analysis and all of that, but that's where I stand right now.

On October 25 2012 02:33 iamperfection wrote:
do you guys think dp slipped?

On October 25 2012 03:19 austinmcc wrote:
I'm going to wait on marv's thoughts. In general I dislike cases that are so heavily meta-based, as (whether this one was or not) they're much more malleable than one based on play in-game.

I think hapa's case does a good job of rounding up a decent (if not complete) picture of recent marv games. I think some of those games are...so dissimilar that I don't like drawing parallels to them? Clothes would be one of those. I think that the setup in Clothes is so different from a normal or semi-normal game that one's play, to some extent, would be different there than in other games. I don't think this is damning of the specific comparisons hapa drew, because you used other cases and you spoke in a lot of generalities like "trying to figure the game out" and "moving votes around" (my quotes, not yours). Those seem more mindset-oriented characteristics that you'd port from game to game than something that wouldn't carry over at all. All of that is just...saying what's on my mind. I still think you've pulled plenty of comparable games that using Clothes doesn't kill the case for me.

That's all very bland and kind of wishy washy. I just...ugh. I hate all this meta stuff and I keep finding myself wanting to distrust ALL meta cases/reads, because that seems easier than trying to filter through the times someone has properly used meta.

---

I'm swamped at work today, and will continue to be until next W and the end of the month. I'm gonna get through marv's filter again when I can, and try to pin down some thoughts on his actual play this game. I know I dislike the way he went about voting v7/finding v7's return scummy, but I'm not entirely sure as to whether that's because he and I disagreed on whether the return posts were townie or scummy, or whether I actually find the disagreement ITSELF scummy (would is this another point of view a townie can take, or is that point of view itself scummy).

Otherwise, I'm just going to wait for whatever he's going to post, and this evening I can devote some time to the game.

---

I still am not sure of your alignment, but ...

(1) we shouldn't be having to ask so much for your reads
(2) why did you find marv's play this game neutral before hapa's case?

On October 25 2012 10:04 DarthPunk wrote:


I thought I would live because I am probably one of the weakest players in this game. I didn't call you stupid. I said your case was shit. Which it was.

On October 25 2012 10:19 DarthPunk wrote:


Exactly. Hapa, Marv, You, Austin. All bigger threats and all more likely to get shot. IMO.

On October 25 2012 10:19 DarthPunk wrote:
Does anyone want to comment on marv outing ZB as his scum buddy?

On October 25 2012 10:24 austinmcc wrote:

At first I was like

But then I was like

On October 25 2012 10:26 Hapahauli wrote:
Austin I'm curious - have you ever played a scum game?

On October 25 2012 10:31 Hapahauli wrote:


Oh fuck you were scum in that game? Well shit that terrifies me. Will have to look into that.

On October 25 2012 10:45 iamperfection wrote:

i knew this lame as excuse was familiar



Guess the alignment

+ Show Spoiler +

I dont think a town player should assume he is going to live and his remark here instantly reminded me of liquid city. Even if its true it has the same tone and feel as liquid city.

I think dp is the final scum.

On October 25 2012 09:20 marvellosity wrote:
gg.

didn't have the heart for it this game and knew i was playing awfully but could do nothing about it.

wish i hadn't bothered defending myself though, what a waste of my time.

##Vote: marvellosity

On October 25 2012 10:53 drazak wrote:
What? I'd have to have been jumping on really quick to the bus, I was the first vote after hapa. Besides, based on everything Ihear about marv, I'd think he'd be more likely to bus me than get bussed himself.

On October 25 2012 10:55 DarthPunk wrote:
so here are my current thoughts

Hapa - Town

Austin - Town

Keir - Town

Drazak - Probably town Aww fuck it. I was already stupid enough to mention this when it was so WTF I didn't believe it. It's in my filter like a retard. Anyway I think this guy is the medic and his crumb was really weird looking so I pushed him on it and then realised what I was looking at. My bad.

Myself - Town

That leaves Iamp and ZB as scum candidates in my mind.

Both have pretty good cases against them already (Perfection not so much but he has been acting generally scummy)

ZB there was a lot of discussion on before. His meta etc. Which still stands as far as I am concerned. People's town reads of him have been based on activity and that's about it. He was still my number one read before the hapa case and with Draz probably townie He is the My largest scum read by far. He was the only one aside from myself who didn't vote marv. I was asleep. I don't know what ZB's excuse is.

Add to that he preaches caution and reading when telling everyone to delay on hammering marv. And then throws caution to the wind and says he is going to tunnel his previous solid town read for no fucking reason. In his very next post.

On October 25 2012 11:23 DarthPunk wrote:


Not as much as I lost it with those baby seal picks in liquid city. OMG> Ima go look at them again right now.

On October 21 2012 08:02 austinmcc wrote:

I don't remember kei in LC tbh. I was mostly inactive D1, came back looking at those couple specific people, died before I had a good handle on the full game.

Kei from Aperture 2 I feel like is a solid townie as far as being active, looking town, once the game starts. Not...the type of player who takes advantage of that, though? Basically was the towniest person in game, was going to get protection, but kind of let spammier people take over and direct the flow of the game, and noticed that that was happening (kei, your game was much more fun when we were scumhunting than claiming/solving the game bit). I expect some good and insightful posts from him, but I haven't seen him be particularly aggressive.

I think we also played...rockband? And maybe another game? I'll have to look through. I don't have a big meta handle on keirathi, but I'm also not generally good at catching people via meta or even USING meta. I mainly focus on picking out odd questions, or questions that never got pursued. That seems to be when I'm most effective, and so I'm going to try and mine the thread hard for things that stick out.

On October 25 2012 12:49 Hapahauli wrote:
I love how we're trained not to edit our posts lol

On October 25 2012 13:25 Hapahauli wrote:
Did either of the co-hosts ever post a vote count? o-O

Yah BH was really on top of things - just like the last GSL II where I posted like 2 votecounts on the first day =P

debears wrote:
Also check out this post by keir

""""filter
Bleh I started writing a bunch of stuff then almost fell asleep. Trying to think after drinking isn't quit as easy as I was hoping

Marv has moved pretty far up my scum reads. Maybe even higher than ZB at this point. I don't want to hammer tonight, but I do expect his long defense that he promised when I wake up.

Also a quick question marv: Do you still think I am scum? Maybe me and Hapa for coming up with the exact same case at nearly the exact same time? You obviously think Hapa is scum, but if not me, who is your second candidate? Hell, if you still think I am your second candidate, who is your third and why?""""

See the last part about 3 scum? Keir isn't a newbie. He knows there are 2 scum in a nine player game, especially when BH says there are. Is this 2nd level scum thinking???

On October 25 2012 14:59 vaderseven wrote:


I would insta /in any game on TL that used that system. I like the player skill level on TL but hate the standard rules here.

One other rule I hate about big games on TL (didnt effect this game obv) is the scum kill point system. Everywhere else I play the scum get 1 kill per night. Thats it. Doesnt matter if its 22 player game with 5 scum or 7 player game with 2 scum or whatever. 1 scum team = 1 kill.

It makes roles like SK more scarey or a 2nd night kill more a point of interest (was it a one time night action, is there a sk, is there a weirdness going on like a 2nd scum team, etc). It also makes it so that the game feels more stable from a VT perspective.

/soapbox on mafia rules

On October 25 2012 22:25 marvellosity wrote:
With a different playerbase I might have gotten away with it, but against Hapa/Keirathi/austin... not a chance

On October 25 2012 23:27 austinmcc wrote:

I get stuck thinking there are cases where someone posting less would be a good play.

On October 25 2012 23:52 Z-BosoN wrote:
Haha I really have to reread what I post.
Most of the time as town I just write stuff and click on post. Even though I try to be concise and stuff, it doesn't always happen, and there are bound to be some contradictions and inconsistencies.

When I defended myself against Keir by saying "@that hapa thing", and making reference to the wrong situation, I actually DID notice after I posted that this was not the passage Kei was referring to. I began to make a post explaining that actually, but I figured "ah fuck that, no one is gonna notice". Then Hapa came along and @#%#!.

All my non-newbie games I was town. In every single one of those people really wanted to lynch me. Now I see that a townie's job is to both scumhunt AND look as townie as possible, so as to not draw unnecessary attention. Gonna focus on that for the next few days. It's much easier to look for scum when you don't have to keep defending yourself at every turn.

@austin, yay you finally had me figured out, hooray! Just keep saying I'm town all the time now, and you should be fine =p

On October 26 2012 03:54 Promethelax wrote:
Yeah I like the idea of a defined deadline on D1 as I think it is easily possible to push a no lynch on forever as town in this set up and wait for the mafia to slip up. Infinite day one seems too likely to go on for a really long time, I think later days are more likely to end as people will have real information and want real results.

On October 26 2012 04:52 marvellosity wrote:


says the guy who got lynched when he last claimed xD

On October 26 2012 04:54 austinmcc wrote:

You say "ridiculously convenient"; I say "convincingly ridiculous"

On October 26 2012 05:04 austinmcc wrote:

Gotta have dat "Why would I be given such a stupid fakeclaim?" argument to fall back on.