EPTGSL Mini Mafia III - Page 6
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 24 2012 11:22 drazak wrote: I find Z-bo a little scummy, I'm not sure what he's up to though, he hammered v7 and we didn't agree on the hammer, and people were saying to wait on hammering him until they could get a better read, that bothers me a little. Maybe he just wanted to move the game along, but I'm not sold he had a more solid scum read on v7 than anyone else, but hammered anyway. I'm legitimately trying to read you, and I'm just looking to try and get more complete thoughts from you. It's too late for me to keep going, but I'd appreciate you fleshing this answer out. Is the hammer the only part you find scummy? Do you find it scummy or does it just bother you? Even if the hammer vote feels scummy to you, what about the rest of his play? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
One thought: We can assume there's a doctor, as the alternative is that mafia didn't send in a N1 kill. Doctor seems far more likely. IF we have a doctor, mafia know the setup. 100% On October 20 2012 03:53 Blazinghand wrote: If they have a roleblocker, mafia knows we have a parity cop. If no roleblocker, mafia knows we don't have a cop. So both mafia and our cop/boxer know the setup, the rest of us don't.Possible Setups A) 1 Forum Hero, 1 Trilaner, 1 HopeTorture, 1 NesTea, 5 Progamers C) 2 Forum Heroes, 1 BoxeR, 1 HopeTorture, 5 Progamers So, just a thought. IF you're boxer, consider claiming later (not today probably). Mafia knows whether we have a boxer or a cop, so you're not giving them setup information if you claim. I know this doesn't matter much, but...I was jonesing for some setup speculation among all this actual scumhunting. Now to get reading. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 24 2012 09:55 drazak wrote: To me, your play is pretty neutral, but based on the meta evidence? I think you're scum. I have no problem voting youbased on the meta evidence. ##vote marvellosity Could you please explain "your play is pretty neutral" You have not mentioned marv ever in your filter until hapa makes his case. So please explain why you found his play this game to be neutral. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
I think hapa's case does a good job of rounding up a decent (if not complete) picture of recent marv games. I think some of those games are...so dissimilar that I don't like drawing parallels to them? Clothes would be one of those. I think that the setup in Clothes is so different from a normal or semi-normal game that one's play, to some extent, would be different there than in other games. I don't think this is damning of the specific comparisons hapa drew, because you used other cases and you spoke in a lot of generalities like "trying to figure the game out" and "moving votes around" (my quotes, not yours). Those seem more mindset-oriented characteristics that you'd port from game to game than something that wouldn't carry over at all. All of that is just...saying what's on my mind. I still think you've pulled plenty of comparable games that using Clothes doesn't kill the case for me. That's all very bland and kind of wishy washy. I just...ugh. I hate all this meta stuff and I keep finding myself wanting to distrust ALL meta cases/reads, because that seems easier than trying to filter through the times someone has properly used meta. I'm swamped at work today, and will continue to be until next W and the end of the month. I'm gonna get through marv's filter again when I can, and try to pin down some thoughts on his actual play this game. I know I dislike the way he went about voting v7/finding v7's return scummy, but I'm not entirely sure as to whether that's because he and I disagreed on whether the return posts were townie or scummy, or whether I actually find the disagreement ITSELF scummy (would is this another point of view a townie can take, or is that point of view itself scummy). Otherwise, I'm just going to wait for whatever he's going to post, and this evening I can devote some time to the game. On October 25 2012 00:55 drazak wrote: yeah man, ad hominem is certainly the answer, I was open with my reads when people asked me, try again please. I still am not sure of your alignment, but ... (1) we shouldn't be having to ask so much for your reads (2) why did you find marv's play this game neutral before hapa's case? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 25 2012 03:27 Keirathi wrote: Meta is a valuable tool, when used correctly. Hapa's case is definitely "using it correctly". Not that he's necessarily right, but I came to the exact same conclusions, for the same reasoning, at the same time Hapa did, so I'm inclined to believe that we're not BOTH wrong. I mean, earlier in the game, marv explicitly stated he was paranoid about how solid a grasp I have on meta in general, and could have been using that to alter my scum play to be more similar to my town play. I'm not sure if you read my meta analysis of marv in LC, where I concluded that kush was town? Marv specifically pm'd me about that later, saying it was one of the few things that anyone has EVER said that has made him actually step back and think about how he plays this game. I know I say it a lot, but I really have spent a ton of time talking to marv about games, delving into the way he thinks, why he does certain things, etc. I'm certainly no expert on him, but I believe I have a decent grasp of his play, in general. Yaya, I'm generally down with this case. There's just a mental roadblock that exists between meta and me, and I tend to try and shy away from it. I didn't see that bit in LC. I'm a baddie and didn't follow LC at all after dying really. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 25 2012 06:38 Hapahauli wrote: But again, I'm expecting reads and not your defense. I don't think I'll ever be satisfied with how you defend yourself. You're pretty good at defending yourself anywho, and I expect that from scum or town you. I measure your "townie-ness" by your contributions and case-writing, which you have still not posted. As I mentioned above, your top two scum-reads are pathetic for a player of your caliber and fit right into optimal scum-strategy. Also, you must be having quite a difficult time writing a case on me huh? Hurry up. As I read this, you not ever being satisfied with how marv defends himself implies that you COULD find marv townie based on the reads he offers. Is that accurate? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 25 2012 06:50 Hapahauli wrote: 100% accurate Could you...explain this one a little? I know that agreeing with his reads, or seeing the thought process, could ease your concerns over some of your meta points. However, no matter what reads marv throws out, even if they match yours exactly, some of your other points would still be applicable, and the reads would have come only AFTER you've called him out and after all this time. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 25 2012 07:03 drazak wrote: I find it insanely odd how marv calls those cases cherry picked and then can't come up with other cases to his defense, obviously if they're cherry picked it's because there are other cases contrary to them, but I haven't seen any yet. Still curious about this: On October 24 2012 09:55 drazak wrote: in reference to marv.To me, your play is pretty neutral Why was his play neutral to you? Specifically, what posts, what actions, etc. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
THREAD ATMOSPHERE POLICE ALERT!!! THREAD ATMOSPHERE POLICE ALERT!!! (I wanted to make those blue and red but was worried about the mod-font bit. Imagine them blue and red) On October 25 2012 07:06 Hapahauli wrote: I'm hoping you're just town that thinks he's caught scum and is really happy about that, but I don't like your series of posts like this. I find it funny how marv has been dangling his scumread on me for almost an entire day and has yet to come up with any rationale whatsoever. On October 24 2012 09:42 Hapahauli wrote: marv is claiming scum btw. On October 24 2012 09:51 Hapahauli wrote: Are you going to get to those reads any time soon, or will you keep up with this OMGUS shit? On October 25 2012 04:45 Hapahauli wrote: Time frame? I'm rather eager to find out if you're putting your mouth where your vote is. On October 25 2012 04:48 Hapahauli wrote: That's stupid. =/ Hurry up I'm bored. I think your case is well-written and presented. But little potshots and posts like this serve to weaken your overall position in my mind somehow. Like...case good, well-presented, but it's being followed up by little comments like this, and for whatever reason that makes me want to disagree with the case/read, just because of how you're pursuing it. I'm not sure if that's particular to me or not. I'm not sure if that's really relevant or not. And I don't find it scummy. But, at least with me, the continued sniping serves to turn me off the read you're pushing, because it adds posts to the thread that don't matter at all and are phrased very negatively. /threadatmospherepoliceoff | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 25 2012 07:13 drazak wrote: He had a few reads, but nothing that great, which shows that he was atleast trying to look town, he hasn't pushed any case really really hard like some of the other people who I have stronger town reads on. What reads in particular? What posts do you feel like are him pushing cases, but not very hard, as opposed to a case that you feel someone else WAS pushing hard? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 25 2012 07:21 marvellosity wrote: austin, I think you have... newer stuff in the thread to comment on  Friggin' ninjas. I'm trying to be all positive and people gotta keep posting claims 'n' crap. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
We can assume doc over lack-of-sent-in-NK N1. We can assume Boxer and not cop, over lack-of-sent-in-RB N1. So barring trickiness, the boxer claim is true unless counterclaimed. And it wouldn't make sense to fakeclaim boxer at this point anyway if it could be counterclaimed, that's just sillypants. It would only make sense in the case of scum holding an action or NK in order to mess with (my) setup speculation. As long as nobody counterclaims, then, I'm delighted. I was really concerned when hapa said he might find marv townie off marv's reads, because it felt like he was pushing this case so hard that he shouldn't be seeing possibilities like that. And ... the whole negativity thing irks me and just makes me want someone to flip scum for being negative. Again, IF scummarv this game then he can't bus a weak scumbuddy, but a scumbuddy could get mileage out of bussing scummarv hard because marv probably gets policy lynched later anyway. I actually was worried about that possibility because I'm overly paranoid, and I'm glad that the claim stops that possibility. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
marv, drazak. you say bandwagony, lack of explanations, evades questions. This was a peculiar post to me, in terms of you giving real reasons for finding him townie (actually speaking with him, about getting lynched for not pushing reads, etc.). This post came from a position of...more knowledge than we have in thread, and so should carry some weight. On October 23 2012 08:26 marvellosity wrote: It looks like in his own way he's trying to defuse things. On the flip side of this, it points to the fact he was present in the thread for a while and not making any actual further contributions of his own. Which should be scummy, except... after the last game he played when he was lynched Day 1, he spoke to me on IRC about his play and why he'd been lynched. And he got lynched because he wasn't pushing reads and contributing, although it seemed to me at the time when I was talking to him that for whatever reason he didn't *quite* grasp it; so it's possible to make the argument that he should have learnt from this, but I rather think that it's simply consistent with how he's played as town before. I don't want to lynch drazak today, I still lean town. do you think that he grasps it, that he'd be playing differently if he were town this game? Especially given that one of the two reads you gave seems to be town, you still confident in the other? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Otherwise, I'm willing to hammer. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On October 25 2012 09:18 iamperfection wrote: off topic but what do you do irl austin? You seem to have a distinct thinking style. Engineer maybe? annul had it right in LC. I'm a lawyer. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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