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On October 06 2012 05:17 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 05:16 JingleHell wrote:On October 06 2012 05:15 Keirathi wrote:On October 06 2012 05:06 Drazerk wrote: I actually claimed the shot before S+B claimed sorry Kei check again No you didn't? On October 04 2012 01:52 strongandbig wrote: also i've thought about it and i think that saying this is a good idea right now: my night action was successful but i don't have complete control over who it targets. On October 05 2012 01:29 Drazerk wrote: No sb I shot you T_T I don't see you claiming the shot anywhere before that. IIRC he did mention a night action before then, but he also said it went through and that was all he was saying. Was ambiguous the first time. Wat. S&B was the one who claimed his ambiguous night action went through. Which is the post I quoted. It was 24 hours later before Drazak claimed that it was a shot on S&B.
Ah. Fair enough. Hard to keep their posts this game separate sometimes.
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On October 05 2012 13:49 gonzaw wrote: Please make points about me being scum that don't have anything to do with you or "starting fights" with you or "insulting" you or discrediting you or "misinterpreting" you.
I won't ask you again.
On October 06 2012 03:56 gonzaw wrote:
Anyways, I guess I'm kind of angry at you because I know my own intentions that I had in my posts and I know you are heavily misinterpreting them. Huh, I guess that's the problem with playing in text-form.
On October 06 2012 05:33 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On October 06 2012 05:20 ghost_403 wrote:On October 06 2012 05:10 gonzaw wrote: Yeah, it's possible. However, if there was 1 KP that got to S&B. someone must have shot it. If the guy that shot it was town, he'd have claimed, therefore it's either scum or SK KP (basically anti-town KP). Drazerk claimed that KP and nobody cc'ed, so it at least proves Drazerk shot him (whether as town, scum or SK).
You may be right about the targets though, maybe a town bus driver bussed S&B with a pro-town townie and scum/SK Drazerk shot S&B instead of his intended target.
Yeah, we might leave that out until we have more claims or knowledge of night actions. However, if no town night action interfered with the kill, I think it's highly likely that if Drazerk is scum his shot was on the target he intended. It could be the same for 3rd party Drazerk, but maybe scum bussed S&B with someone and Drazerk didn't know. This response is so wrong there's no justification for it from a town point of view. Let's take a moment to examine what was said here: - Any unclaimed shot must be anti-town
- Unquestioning belief that Draz is telling the truth
- More blue fishing
- Stuff that was just plain wrong
There are reasons why unclaimed shots might have been from someone in the town. For example, Lord Kanti's KP from Aperture Mafia. Based on the flips that have already occured this game, I don't think that it's irrational to assume that a role with KP doesn't have some other stuff associated with it. The fact that Draz didn't immediately claim his shot doesn't imply that he's scum. That second part about the busdriver is (a) wrong and (b) blue fishing. In the event of a busdriver, 98% of the time, the person performing the action isn't notified of a bussing. Therefore, Draz would not know that he had bussed, and wouldn't have known to claim that he shot S+B. And why on earth are you implying that there's a town busdriver to begin with? Why do you keep fishing for blues? As town, you should know better than to spout off stuff like this. You would have taken a step back and realized that this post doesn't accomplish anything other than create more chaos while people discuss why you are completely wrong. Town gonzaw is better than this. ...is this post serious? Do I really have to point out all the stuff you misinterpreted or got wrong?
If you don't like other people talking about being misinterpreted, why is it turning into your default response after saying that?
Funny thing, you were threatening to get me lynched at the time for being so scummy as to make a case involving you misinterpreting me...
So now you're doing something you personally implied heavily was scummy behavior.
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On October 06 2012 05:50 gonzaw wrote: Who is talking about being misinterpreted? What "scummy behaviour"? I'm not "misinterpreting" ghost, he's misinterpreting me (quite badly).
Seriously Jingle I just don't get some of your posts or why you even bother posting them. Are you seriously just sitting on your chair, gluing your face to the monitor waiting for me to make any post at all to completely dissect and post how it's scummy?
When I'm able to be at my computer, yes, I keep a close eye on the game. Is activity a problem? You act like I only respond to you. You're one of the people who posts frequently, and you're scummy as fuck, so yes, I do respond pointing out the scummy things you do a lot, but acting like I ignore the rest of the game is absurd.
And frankly, you really need to stop reacting, especially since you've spent so much time harping about my "bad town" play.
You were threatening me, saying I should stop saying you misinterpreted me. Since making that post, saying that you're being misinterpreted is becoming a frequent "defense". You were acting like I was being scummy, hence the threats. This implies that you doing it would, by your logic, also be scummy.
I'd rather not reiterate this constantly, so actually try to understand it. There's a first time for everything.
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Hey gents, just got home and caught up with the thread. What the fuck. Two anti-town factions.
Now, obviously, obligatory comment on how this actually increases the numerical chances of gonzaw being some sort of scum.
Despite that, I find myself having to be objective here... he's not been nuts about talking about third party unless someone else brought it up, and that makes me think that if he's scum, he's normal scum, and odds are, we can look for our Black Mesa types within the people who kept having their posts and accusations drift that direction. We all know that foreknowledge can color play, so I'm inclined to think the Black team has at least one person who keeps referencing that.
Possibly to include Draz, although his play smells like vengeful or village idiot. It's like he wants to get a vigi hit on him.
I really doubt, just from a flavor perspective, that Atlas and P-Body would be on the Black Mesa team. Thematics here. Gordon Freeman isn't a Portal local, the cooperative testing initiative is. It wouldn't make sense for them to be the same team.
It's still possible we have something screwy going on with Keir/SNB, but given that they're at least claimed, I'm comfortable leaving them alive for now, if shit hit the fan, I'd say we could lynch SNB (After all, if they ARE some sort of screwy multi-factional pair, Keir's roleclaim to save SNB feels townie.)
Hiro: Gonzaw's "change of opinion" of me, while possibly scummy in some of his posts, is thoroughly documented, and even I (really WANTING him to flip red, I don't think denying that would get me anywhere) wouldn't be brazen enough to suggest it was just some sudden thing out of nowhere, even if I think some of the posts in the process were scummy.
At this point, knowing we have extra scum, I'd have to say my favorite lynch targets would include Gonzaw (surprise), Hiro, Draz. Hiro's so damned innocuous it's starting to make me wonder.
(By the way, if this post seems weird for me, blame being tired, having just gotten back from sparring night at TKD which is great for letting out aggression, and being well fed.)
Anyways, with the new info, I'm going to have to go back through and look harder.
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On October 06 2012 10:49 HiroPro wrote:That's not what I'm saying. gonzaw indicated that unless you made a "good case" on him, he was going to consider you scum. Show nested quote +On October 05 2012 13:49 gonzaw wrote: Please make points about me being scum that don't have anything to do with you or "starting fights" with you or "insulting" you or discrediting you or "misinterpreting" you.
I won't ask you again. You made a case, and gonzaw seemed to consider it horrendous. So I was wondering why that made gonzaw think of you as a bad townie, when judging by his previous thoughts, he was going to call you scum if he didn't like the case.
Ah. Well, he's scum. It happens.
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On October 06 2012 11:03 gonzaw wrote: Jingle, Hiro, what do you guys think about ghost and what I wrote about him?
Don't worry Jingle, even if I'm RS ghost can be BS, so you can actually pay attention to what I say.
I think I'd rather kill the antagonistic scum first, so I'll worry about him after you die.
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Oh, for the record, to answer Gonzaw's question even better... Crossfire and Ghost connection, I could entertain. But then, I also entertain [sarcasm]completely unfounded, absurd, bad townie[/sarcasm] connection theories like Gonzaw soft-bussing Perfection.
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On October 06 2012 12:10 gonzaw wrote: EBWOP:
So I take it you don't buy my "there was no momentum on iamperfection so I changed my vote" defense? Why not? Why have you not responded to my defense at all? Yeah, I don't like coming back to that....but shit Jingle, if thinking I'm "obvious scum" stops you from considering anybody else at all and talking about anything else at all there's something wrong.
Since your responses never have any bearing on what I said, I don't see a point in arguing in circles with you.
Others are starting to see it. Hopefully enough of them will come around in time.
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Ok, so I just woke up. Just read the thread. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this whole current line started because Gonzaw went "What if Drazerk is town?"
Anybody who's played with me should know that me pointing to this has nothing to do with my primary case on Gonzaw, and everything to do with the fact that people who suddenly start sounding like they have lynch foreknowledge should die.
[QUOTE]On October 07 2012 13:04 gonzaw wrote: [QUOTE]On October 07 2012 12:59 austinmcc wrote:
austin, what would you do if Drazerk flips town? Who would you look at?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]On October 07 2012 13:09 gonzaw wrote: Meh scratch that question, it's kind of loaded.
My main point is: How will you guys react if Drazerk is town? There seems to be no motivation to do anything at all today and everybody just assumes Drazerk will flip scum and that will make this day "worth it". But just like some people on D2, if the flip is town the day is wasted (i.e people come once in the whole day, park their vote and leave, that kind of thing).
Does anybody have links to all games where Drazerk was scum, and how he acted in LYLO or before getting lynched in those games?[/QUOTE]
That screams like foreknowledge to me.
Oh, and the SNB/Keirathi claim protection target thing is stupid too. If they were scum, which I really don't believe at this point, all they'd have to do is not send in an NK and whammo, they're confirmed town, because they saved the NK!
So, since it would gain scum two confirmed town, the only plausible use for it is to let scum try a last minute target switch.
Gonzaw is still scum, kill him with fire. (Yes there's been a metric fuckton of discussion I semi skimmed, I was out and about or otherwise occupied most of yesterday. If there's something specific from the piles of speculation and ranting you want my input on, please let me know.)
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EBWOP, formatting, not even sure how the fuck that broke...
+ Show Spoiler +Ok, so I just woke up. Just read the thread. Correct me if I'm wrong, but this whole current line started because Gonzaw went "What if Drazerk is town?" Anybody who's played with me should know that me pointing to this has nothing to do with my primary case on Gonzaw, and everything to do with the fact that people who suddenly start sounding like they have lynch foreknowledge should die. On October 07 2012 13:04 gonzaw wrote:
austin, what would you do if Drazerk flips town? Who would you look at? On October 07 2012 13:09 gonzaw wrote: Meh scratch that question, it's kind of loaded.
My main point is: How will you guys react if Drazerk is town? There seems to be no motivation to do anything at all today and everybody just assumes Drazerk will flip scum and that will make this day "worth it". But just like some people on D2, if the flip is town the day is wasted (i.e people come once in the whole day, park their vote and leave, that kind of thing).
Does anybody have links to all games where Drazerk was scum, and how he acted in LYLO or before getting lynched in those games? That screams like foreknowledge to me. Oh, and the SNB/Keirathi claim protection target thing is stupid too. If they were scum, which I really don't believe at this point, all they'd have to do is not send in an NK and whammo, they're confirmed town, because they saved the NK! So, since it would gain scum two confirmed town, the only plausible use for it is to let scum try a last minute target switch. Gonzaw is still scum, kill him with fire. (Yes there's been a metric fuckton of discussion I semi skimmed, I was out and about or otherwise occupied most of yesterday. If there's something specific from the piles of speculation and ranting you want my input on, please let me know.)
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Oh, and speaking of, since I can't remember if I've done this yet today...
##Vote Gonzaw
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Switch your vote until/unless he explains it, Austin, so that it's securely off Draz if Gonzaw refuses to explain the recent development stuff.
After all, he should be totally cool with the threat of "Explain or get lynched", he threw it at me earlier this game.
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Also, has anyone else noticed a drastic change in the overall feel of Gonzaw's posts since the revelation of a third party faction? He seems much more interested in leading a hunt, instead of just joining one.
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Also, why has Gonzaw been obsessed with pushing this "2 scum per faction" mentality? Remember, the OP listed scum KP as being scum/2 rounded up. Unless greymist is a Caller smurf, I really doubt that's in the OP just to troll us. It can only benefit scum to have people looking for less scum than there are.
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On October 08 2012 01:49 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2012 01:26 JingleHell wrote: Switch your vote until/unless he explains it, Austin, so that it's securely off Draz if Gonzaw refuses to explain the recent development stuff.
After all, he should be totally cool with the threat of "Explain or get lynched", he threw it at me earlier this game. The foreknowledge point is a good pickup. The fishing is there. The momentum stuff on D1 is there. But why do I want the lynch "securely off Draz"? Like...I just watched him get very few votes in a game where he was scum. I fooking chatted with him late while he was active and scum when nobody was around. Aperture 1 he gets caught playing Drazerk-y on D1. PTP3 he gets caught playing Drazerk-y on D1, but snb dies and nobody reads, so he survives. This game, he DOESN'T play Drazerk-y on D1. Why? He says time. Maybe. But he also keeps getting caught D1, and so maybe he suppresses that for a day here and then can't contain it D2? I dunno about that. He also just claims to mess with his meta, so maybe even if he hadn't been getting caught he'd go from Drazerk-y to not? Gah. Nor does stuff like this make me want to unvote: Show nested quote +On October 08 2012 01:19 Drazerk wrote: Well Mattchews purposely lurking so you all ignore him.
S+B is blinded by rage
Hiro is probably AFK
Austin is probably scum and will go for the easy lynch
Gonzaw won't vote himself
Kei I really don't care about
Shame that activity is the bane of this game and your about to kill one of the most active players. Don't kill me, I'm one of the most active players. Instead, kill Gonzaw, who's been one of the most active players. He's right on mattchew; we're ignoring him. But he's complaining about activity and then calling out a guy who's been very active recently, albeit Gonzaw's activity is sometimes just gratuitous posts that don't help.
I'm more nervous about Hiro's invisibility than Mattchew's. Mattchew said he got a HotS invite right before he vanished, Hiro has just said almost nothing memorable all game. That sets off more of my "scum" alarms than anything else.
As for why we'd want the lynch off Draz, I want it off him because Gonzaw has done several things recently that can literally ONLY benefit scum (make us look for less scum than there most likely are, act like he expects a townflip off Draz, his SNB+Keir plan that either sets up a block-free shot, or allows SNB+Keir, if they were scum, which I doubt, to withhold a shot and get free confirmed townie status). One of those things suggests Draz might well be town if Gonzaw flips scum. Avoiding a potential mislynch with scum grabbing town cred off the back of it scenario doesn't seem like a bad idea.
Especially after how bad me chasing useless people in PTP3 went, I'm trying to chase scummy behavior first. Smacking down trolls/lurkers/etc. has to be a concerted effort with early game policy lynches.
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On October 08 2012 02:26 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2012 02:04 JingleHell wrote:On October 08 2012 01:49 austinmcc wrote:On October 08 2012 01:26 JingleHell wrote: Switch your vote until/unless he explains it, Austin, so that it's securely off Draz if Gonzaw refuses to explain the recent development stuff.
After all, he should be totally cool with the threat of "Explain or get lynched", he threw it at me earlier this game. The foreknowledge point is a good pickup. The fishing is there. The momentum stuff on D1 is there. But why do I want the lynch "securely off Draz"? Like...I just watched him get very few votes in a game where he was scum. I fooking chatted with him late while he was active and scum when nobody was around. Aperture 1 he gets caught playing Drazerk-y on D1. PTP3 he gets caught playing Drazerk-y on D1, but snb dies and nobody reads, so he survives. This game, he DOESN'T play Drazerk-y on D1. Why? He says time. Maybe. But he also keeps getting caught D1, and so maybe he suppresses that for a day here and then can't contain it D2? I dunno about that. He also just claims to mess with his meta, so maybe even if he hadn't been getting caught he'd go from Drazerk-y to not? Gah. Nor does stuff like this make me want to unvote: On October 08 2012 01:19 Drazerk wrote: Well Mattchews purposely lurking so you all ignore him.
S+B is blinded by rage
Hiro is probably AFK
Austin is probably scum and will go for the easy lynch
Gonzaw won't vote himself
Kei I really don't care about
Shame that activity is the bane of this game and your about to kill one of the most active players. Don't kill me, I'm one of the most active players. Instead, kill Gonzaw, who's been one of the most active players. He's right on mattchew; we're ignoring him. But he's complaining about activity and then calling out a guy who's been very active recently, albeit Gonzaw's activity is sometimes just gratuitous posts that don't help. I'm more nervous about Hiro's invisibility than Mattchew's. Mattchew said he got a HotS invite right before he vanished, Hiro has just said almost nothing memorable all game. That sets off more of my "scum" alarms than anything else. As for why we'd want the lynch off Draz, I want it off him because Gonzaw has done several things recently that can literally ONLY benefit scum (make us look for less scum than there most likely are, act like he expects a townflip off Draz, his SNB+Keir plan that either sets up a block-free shot, or allows SNB+Keir, if they were scum, which I doubt, to withhold a shot and get free confirmed townie status). One of those things suggests Draz might well be town if Gonzaw flips scum. Avoiding a potential mislynch with scum grabbing town cred off the back of it scenario doesn't seem like a bad idea. Especially after how bad me chasing useless people in PTP3 went, I'm trying to chase scummy behavior first. Smacking down trolls/lurkers/etc. has to be a concerted effort with early game policy lynches. Those are reasons to want the lynch ON Gonzaw. They're not reasons to want the lynch OFF Drazerk, except that Gonzaw flipping scum could indicate Drazerk is town. Hold on. I just wrote up little hypotheticals about what happens if Drazerk/Gonzaw flip and are town/scum, how it makes the other look. But the "Gonzaw scum = Drazerk town" thing doesn't work. Multiple factions. Gonzaw scum = Drazerk not scum WITH Gonzaw. scumGonzaw can't know that Drazerk is town, just that he's not on Gonzaw's faction. Right?
Fair point. But if they ARE both scum, there's one some people listen to, and one they tend not to. I know which one I'd prefer to have dead. Although, given that I just generally want Gonzaw dead (nothing like the combination of scum and talking shit to make me want to lynch him), that may not mean much.
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On October 08 2012 08:02 gonzaw wrote: At least I'm not retarded
Or maybe you just knew in advance, which is why you staged that cute little change of heart, and started creating all that "what if" discussion, like I said.
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On October 08 2012 08:05 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On October 08 2012 08:04 JingleHell wrote:On October 08 2012 08:02 gonzaw wrote: At least I'm not retarded Or maybe you just knew in advance, which is why you staged that cute little change of heart, and started creating all that "what if" discussion, like I said. Stop it. If I'm RS I can't know if he's BS and if I'm BS I can't know if he's RS without a DT check or something
Oh, so we tack on even more silly setup speculation, to go with you trying to convince everyone that the OP lists scum factional KP as #scum/2 rounded up purely to troll and disguise the 2 man scumteams. In a non-caller game.
So, why did you have the sudden, major change of heart? Because chronologically, you didn't start looking back and convincing yourself he might be town until after you started posting about the possibility. If you were that convinced it was possible he was town, why didn't you unvote until after you did your homework? If you were sufficiently convinced he was scum to not unvote, why did you do the homework?
You did it to try and have momentum and towncred coming off the back of what you either knew or suspected would be a mislynch. That's why.
And of course, nobody knows whether scum might have rolecops or something. Unless you know, and they don't? Is that it?
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On October 08 2012 08:08 gonzaw wrote: Jingle, why were you here right before the deadline and didn't even try to get me lynched, specially when me/Draz/etc started voting for No-lynch and people started to back off Draz?
I was trying most of the day. Don't try and turn this into ME somehow being scummy, when everybody has listened to my reasons and said they still prefer Draz, what was I supposed to do?
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