EPTLiquid City Mafia - Page 116
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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DarthPunk
Australia10847 Posts
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DarthPunk
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VisceraEyes
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VisceraEyes
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
On October 11 2012 13:40 VisceraEyes wrote: So yeah...I'm down with ZBoson lynch. Final answer. Main reason why I'm scum. Go | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
marv's plan was probably to get some insane town cred for bussing Node day 1. That situation was included in mafia's plan. Do you agree that a much better play from mafia would be to straight up bus? | ||
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
That's why I'm hung up on the Node switch - because Node COULD have been lynched - but people were all like "wtf dat wagon" when it's like...why dude? WHY?!? | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
What would have been optimal for mafia? | ||
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DarthPunk
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VisceraEyes
United States21170 Posts
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VisceraEyes
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DarthPunk
Australia10847 Posts
On October 11 2012 14:03 VisceraEyes wrote: No I'm done reading for now DP. I'm going to smoke, sleep and read in the morning. OK. Night ^_^ | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
On October 02 2012 11:10 annul wrote: this node push seems VERY forced, wtf On October 02 2012 11:56 annul wrote: and read node's filter this was very easy. two posts. first post defends shady and calls out kush; second post retreats from this defense slightly and continues to argue against kush. considering node's only two posts match what i have been arguing all along............. i like this guy. the big question now is what it is about these two posts that caused 8 people to drop their pants and go all in on this guy. like, i read the posts... what is there exactly that people are seeing? this doesnt make sense. 8 votes on him so i have to assume with a normal mafia count that there are at least some towns on him.... why? And here I show some reluctance. I wasn't hardcore voting him, mentioning it as a "policy lynch". On October 02 2012 12:02 Z-BosoN wrote: Personally I'm voting for him because he's made little contribution and disappeared. While I agree with his post, it just seems like he posted it to make it seem like he's contributing. Also, I can't find a good lynch target, so I'm viewing this mostly as a policy lynch. KJ still seems pretty damn scummy to me, but like BC pointed out, that's meta-consistent. (Right now in Day 1 I'm putting a lot of faith on what people are saying regarding meta. For example, I would rather lynch coag due to his shit posting, but apparently it's just the way he plays) So for me it was either keep it on KJ or change it to Node. Since KJ is posting a lot more I've decided to give him the benefit of the doubt and go for someone who has disappeared. Also, more (kinda) confirmed town expressing resistance over the node lynch: On October 02 2012 12:17 Coagulation wrote: Everyone keep your votes on shady sands. Node bandwagon looked scummy as fuck and only makes shady look even scummier. And finally my switch: On October 02 2012 12:30 Z-BosoN wrote: Allright, there he is. I've decided that I will not give a shit about what people are saying regarding meta and choose whoever I think is scummiest and makes a better lynch. I'm going with coagulation because of what I've stated earlier on him. He hasn't posted anything useful so far and flows along with content-less posts. Shows no real interest in scum hunting and his association with me on shady sands is ridiculous, as if he is incapable of reading. ##Unvote ##Vote Coagulation Allright, there he is is what I said. I said earlier that I was jumping on his wagon because he seemed to feign a contribution and disappear. Later, however, he comes back and argues against the lynch. He came back, and his defense seemed reasonable. That led me into making the above post. Anyways, two things. First off, not wanting Node lynched is what scum want, but they aren't willing to throw it out in the open, so as to draw attention. annul opposed, Coag opposed, so that criterion alone is not good to define scum. Obviously, my case is a little different, because I voted and then unvoted. I immediately jumped on the wagon. So either me and my mafia buddies were planning this all along in the mafia QT, or I, as a bad townie, saw both VE and marv jump in and decided to sheep. So, in my opinion, me planning to jump in, then later, jump out if things got rough is pretty silly, don't you think? Wouldn't it be much easier to just go ahead and vote someone else? Why go through the trouble is what I'm saying. A scum will only vote for his scum friend to get town cred from a bus. What other reason is there? Another thing to ponder is: if that was my plan all along, why didn't I jump off at a much later time, when the votes were more meaningful? If I want town cred, yet don't want to lynch my scum friend, the most reasonable thing to do is just that, right? Stay in the bus and pop off if it makes a difference. What I don't understand for you to want to lynch me, is why does it make more sense for me to be scum than be a townie with a bad start? I completely changed my gameplay after that event, as I said I would. Once my other game was over, I became a lot more participative and began actually scumhunting. Both you and DP have seen my play as both scum and townie, and how I was playing in day one is not even close to any of them. That is because my claim of not having enough time is legit. So, if you want to lynch me, you are throwing everything about my play day2 and beyond in the toilet. You are lynching me mainly because of one event, which is very easily justifiable by being a townie mistake. Why do I make a better lynch, than say Mattchew, who has done absolutely nothing since the beginning of the game except tell people not to lynch shady because of dumb reasons? Personally I find this very lacking. You disagree, but I think it makes little sense from a scum mindset. My townie explanation, in my mind, is much more fitting if you take in consideration day 2 and beyond, and the fact that I expressed my insatisfaction earlier on, on my vote on him (again, when he showed up and defended himself, I found it reasonable and unvoted him, in accordance to my earlier post, which said he "disappeared"). The scum explanation makes sense, of course, but imo it makes much less sense than my townie one, and not only that, it also ignores every single thing I've changed in my gameplay since day one. That about sums it up. Think of my townie explanation, your scummy one, and see which makes more sense, based on what I've said. | ||
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Kreb
4834 Posts
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
What drew my attention is the amount of blue roles. We have 4 blues dead, and 3 blue claims. I don't have much experience, but 7 blues seems like a huge huge number, compared with the 4 we had in LVII. So I've been playing around with questioning claims, as to how much we can doubt each of them. The obvious claim that's full of shit is BC's, and his gameplay suggests this. It seems pretty evident that his meta is completely off. Not only that, he's lazy in reading into people and just tosses around comments. BC is almost certainly 3rd party. The main thing that shows that BC is clearly not reading the thread and/or is making superficial reads is his stance on me: On October 08 2012 08:35 BloodyC0bbler wrote: zboson has put more time into this game then you have and has been quite open with his reads, pushed down early on one known mafia and has been aggressively pushing his opinions. He has quite clearly illustrated his alignment. The fact you are unable to see this is frightening given a player of your quality. Which later, very easily becomes: On October 11 2012 01:16 BloodyC0bbler wrote: He is looking extremely bad at this moment in time. However I might be to much in tunnel vision but I see sloosh as red, and i see mattchew as red. Mementoss is likely as fuck there as well -_- I can't see this many people still being scum so trying to sort out which are bad town and which are scum might be annoying. I currently believe lynching him or mattchew tommorrow should be what we do as based on thread today and overall they seem most likely to net us scum. (mattchew only if he fails to provide the analysis he just promised). This clearly shows he is not giving the deserved attention to the thread. Another indicator this is how he flops out three cases, but ultimately goes for the slOosh case. He also spouts out Mementoss's name there as being scum. This, of course, after mementoss claimed. To me this raised a red flag and prompted me to read mementoss's filter and inevitably the mementoss/BC exchange. As expected, it also contained some interesting things. As pointed out by fuba, his first post was a soup of already stated facts and didn't add almost anything to the thread: On October 02 2012 08:33 Mementoss wrote: Alright lets go through the current vote candidates: Shady Sands: I put a placeholder vote on shady because he is the best lynch candidate currently being voted for in my opinion. He did his trolling thing, which can't be indicative of alignment because it was said Pre PM, however people could do this for an out as scum. His whole trolling explanation seems a bit off, but similar "plans" have been done as town before. The real problem is how he says "I am back in the thread gotta read" Then basically defends himself, and says "see kush troll and leaves" One of his votes was done in troll mode, and the other was because Zboson voted him for trolling. He hasn't given a read or posted since. However, he never actually voted in vote thread so is on schedule to be modkilled. kingjames01: I feel like a lot of the case on him was based on people saying he slipped spy. Not only is this role not in the role list, he further explained himself from evidence from another thread. The fact that so many people voting him without even checking the setup or just being ignorant to the fact makes me think he is town. He got caught up defending himself on the whole contrived bit, which was stupid, but why would scum spend so much time obviously posting about nothing to explain themselves. He called me out, and hell I would have too because I usual am much more active day 1, and wasn't at the time. kushm4sta: Originally thought he was scum, but after this post: He also admitted he doesn't give a shit about logic, which shows in almost all of his posts. Another one of those players I guess. VisceraEyes: Making cases on multiple people and all over the place. Seems like typical day 1 VE to me. Now to search for scum since shady sands most likely will be modkilled. Note a very clear contradiction in there. In the beginning of the post, he gives a petty reason as to why his vote is on shady sands. In the end of the post, however, he mentions shady sands would get modkilled. If he already thought that shady sands was gonna get modkilled, why would he even bother telling us where his vote would be? This struck me as pretty weird. Next, he says this, promising to be more active: On October 03 2012 08:51 Mementoss wrote: guys good news, I am dead in my other game so I will be putting effort into this one. But now, sleep. After this post, however, he has made posts which do not indicate effort. Hell, his first post above even seemed to display some effort. This is clear mafia mentality, displaying the urge to contribute. Now let's review his claim: On October 09 2012 04:35 Mementoss wrote: I am the Medical Examiner aka, I am the watcher, after clues got taken away my role was changed. Breadcrumb, the only breadcrumb would be I changed my quote to "mommy whats a gravedigger" cause I imagined the medical examiner digging up dead people to examine them. The other would be how I exchanged words with BC after he claimed he was shot. Okay to the more juicy stuff. Night 1: I watched BC, BC was visited by Node(Hapa) or the mafia vigilante. So he did not lie about the shot. However, he did lie about being medic protected. Why would town lie about this? I can't think of motivation. The only reason BC would lie about this would be because he wanted to make scum think there was a medic saving his ass. Actually, the only possible way BC is town is if he is veteran, I don't see why he would lie about this as town, and just say hai guys I was shot, but I was veteran so give me some protection tonight. However, I doubt Blackmamba would take out the veteran role after one of the vets already lost his life. Also, given the fact that Mafia didn't try to shoot him again makes me 95% sure BC is the 3rd Party Night Immue Serial Killer. This quote also seems like he knows a bit too much, it implies that third party has some kp since no one is claiming vig. I would 100% lynch BC tomorrow because of this lie. That brings me to my next point. Mafia knew BC was third party after night 1. Last minute ploys by dead mafia players to get the lynch on the third party to try and save members of their team or just to put WIFOM not to kill BC. We can use this now known knowledge to our advantage. Anyone who has been pushing BC hard after night 1 without much reason, or seems like they know too much, is scum. They are scum looking for some town cred for leading a lynch on anti town. This post rubbed me the wrong way. BC is scum because he lied about getting shot, yet kushm4ster has no evidence to prove BC lieing about being shot. He is using this as his only reasoning. Also Marv, hard defended this guy, almost single handedly getting a wagon off him with a meta case. I could see kushm4sta as scum. Night 2: I watched sloosh and nothing happened. I wish the night deadline was earlier so I could do this last minute and get one last watch. But hopefully this will prove to be useful. Since I was shit all game and I'm sorry lol. But yeah look back after night 1/2 and see people that seemed to have a switch of thoughts on BC or knew too much. Because scum knew BC was 3rd party pretty early. I wish I could be more helpful but I haven't been doing enough reading into the game. I would say lynch BC > lynch kushm4ster TLDR; BloodyC0bbler kushm4stap The first weird thing about this claim is that it makes no sense. The only thing he got from his claim was "oh lookie, BC is an SK". I don't know if everyone else feels this way, but this really does not help town very much. At the time, mementoss was hardly under threat of death, and now he puts himself as such. Another weird part from this claim is bolded above. I really don't follow this line of reasoning. He is calling kush scum because he wanted to lynch BC? He implies that mafia has extra information that town doesn't have. Except that mafia has exactly the same information that town has. BC claimed he was shot, that's about it. Mafia don't know if they shot into an SK, if they shot into a medic save, or if they shot into a lucky citizen. I don't understand why mementoss is implying that mafia has extra information here... Later on, aside from the BC/Memetnoss exchange, Mementoss has done absolutely nothing. What is the thinking of a claimed blue? Obviously he should be completely scared he is going to die. We would expect at least some sort of reads or any good-bye posts or whatever. All he graces us with is - nothing. He merely conveniently gets role-blocked, and that's about it. Another thing to note is BC's knowledge of the role watcher. He takes it as true and is insistent on the fact that they can see when people leave to do night actions. If that is the case, and under the most probable assumption that BC is 3rd party, then mementoss should have seen BC come out, and mentioned it. All he saw, however, was a dead scum visiting BC and thats about it. tl;dr -- If we remove his so-called claim, mementoss's filter looks extremely scummy. It shows a passive, non-scumhunting filter. Has promises of effort, and shows none later on. His first post is extremely weird, as stated above, his claim has some holes, his "whoever has gone after BC is scum" technique makes little sense. His claim also has many reasons to be fake, and this goes in accordance with the extremely high amount of blue claims this game. BC being SK and Mementoss fake-claiming makes a lot more sense, if we take the setup into consideration and a lot of the other reasons above.
I'm hoping the night kills will give us more info. I'm still getting weird vibes from VE's own claim, but I'll read more into that tomorrow. | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
Having died day one, let's look at some of his earlier posts: On September 01 2012 01:21 Mementoss wrote: I'm not too fond of the way ghost has been defending mamba at every chance he gets. It's fine to defend a player if you don't think they're town but leave it at that. Cause when he comes back to the thread he can just mirror the things that ghost said to defend him, or otherwise there is at least a lot less pressure on him to give an adquete response about his case and such. That being said, most of ghosts talk so far has been on this, so I would like to ask him if he had to make a vote now, who would it be and why? My opinion on this BMB fiasco is that he seems a bit scummy to me. His posts just rub me the wrong way and his case was bad. I'm not going to go much farther into this as it's already been fleshed out by many but I'll be interested in seeing a response from him. The way he talks about his personal scum preferences is odd, and the question to the hosts could just be a scam to make himself look town, when he actually knew the answer because he received this fake role. I think the case was bad and forced from a scum perspective because if you look through his early filter he realized he was talking a lot, but it was purely filler, and was scared of getting called out on it soon, so he decided to make a case up so no one would call him out for "contributing without actually saying much". I agree that Risen's play is not his normal town play, of guns blazing and doing crazy shit to get reactions out. If we are going to set the tone here that lurking is unacceptable as town we might as well start day one, and try to set ourselves up for a winning situation later in the game. Also based on his less than stellar game history... So for now.. ##Vote: Mr.Zentor Also I think that people should be giving their gut thoughts and put in a vote at the start of each day, so we can discuss our way through the best person for the lynch throughout the day. People don't seem to realize how short a 24 hour cycle is, so getting a vote in ASAP is important for discussion and consolidation on voting out a scum. Obviously this is impossible to do on day 1, but I think it should be done for further days. Here he shows a much more incisive aggressiveness. Is decisive and already hopes to pin down who is scum. Much unlike his first post this game. Next post: On September 01 2012 05:31 Mementoss wrote: I noticed a couple of things, after a couple people tried to make a wagon on me. I would like to point out people have been saying BMB has been called scummy for 6 pages and he got 1 maybe 2 votes. I got called scummy 1 page ago and got 3 votes already. Doesn't that seem just too easy? Here's some things I noticed about the wagon on me: + Show Spoiler + On September 01 2012 04:41 mkfuba07 wrote: Thanks for the kenpach rule info Hopeless. I used google because I didn't know it was a TL thing. I'll check TL first next time. HiroPro's case was convincing. Momentoss seems to be casting a wide net of suspicion without committing to anything. Even his Mr.Zentor vote is just "for now..." He seems indifferent as to who gets lynched. I haven't felt like Hapa has been defending Mr.Z at all, but has instead been trying to figure out why Momentoss is voting him instead of any of the other candidates he's mentioned, or even any of the other lurkers. Momentoss then builds this "hard defense" into an associative case where neither of the players involved has flipped (naturally). These claims can be made of anyone who has responded to anything another player has said, and cannot be proven or disproven without a lynch on one of the two involved. In fact, I was lightly involved in the "buddy buddying" around in the beginning, and am now "hard defending" Mr.Z by his logic. Am I next on the scumlist? This line of reasoning may seem like scumhunting but there's nothing to base a read on. ##Vote Momentoss Something that bugs me about this post is how he said HiroPro's case was convincing. HiroPro's case is really just everything Hapa said/ asked me. But put into one post. + Show Spoiler + On September 01 2012 03:15 HiroPro wrote: Ok, I think we should lynch mementoss. I'm heading out for lunch and I'll be back in half an hour. At first glance, this seems like a solid contribution. Mementoss talks about most of the major things that have happened in this thread. However, look at what Mementoss is actually saying: he spends an inordinate amount of time talking about what ghost should and should not do only to ask ghost a rather basic question and then proceeds to talk about how certain hypothetical thought processes make him think BlackMamba is scum even though he said he wasn't going to talk much about Mamba and wanted to hear more from him... The rest of his post just summarizes general feelings that are going on in the thread. In the middle of this post, Mementoss says that he voted for Mr. Zentor in order to get him to post something useful, indicating that he has no clear view of Mr. Zentor's alignment. However, right after that Mementoss accuses Hapahauli of soft/hard defending Mr. Zentor and being his scumbuddy. Not only does this not make any sense, as the only posts that Hapahuli has made about Zentor are asking Mementoss why he voted for him, but Mementoss displays a clear disconnect in the way that he perceives Zentor (on one hand being someone he needs to see more from, on the other hand as a scumbuddy). Mementoss is attempting to seem useful when his posts actually say very little. His reaction to Hapahauli's questions are to throw doubt and accusations in a nonsensical manner. He's scum. ##Vote Mementoss "The rest of his post just summarizes general feelings that are going on in the thread." - And this makes me scum how. I feel like HiroPro took everything Hala noticed and put it into a case to make a contribution. He basically just regurgitated everything I said and told you what I said. He didn't say how or why it made me scum at all. "In the middle of this post, Mementoss says that he voted for Mr. Zentor in order to get him to post something useful, indicating that he has no clear view of Mr. Zentor's alignment." - How would you have a clear view of anyones alignment on day 1? Do you know something I don't? You have never voted someone to get a contribution out of them? "Mementoss is attempting to seem useful when his posts actually say very little. His reaction to Hapahauli's questions are to throw doubt and accusations in a nonsensical manner. He's scum." - I found this funny, since Hiro's entire case said nothing other than spitting out my post in new words. He never said Why or how things make me scummy. Then MKFuba goes on to state I don't care who gets lynched, I tried to give my opinions and generate discussion between a couple of players. Generating discussion allows people to find scum. Has he even read the game? He's voting me because I seem indifferent for who is going to be lynched? What about the guy right in front of you eyes: ShadySands FoS on Hapa, no follow up or mention ever again So, what. Shady either didn't put in no attempt to read this post or he can't read. I think it was pretty clear what I was saying. He's shadowing Hala at this point in the thread, a person who he early read as scum. And doesn't ask what he wants to know about this. Well this was one of the main points of the case on me, that I said I thought BMB had scummy actions, but I would wait for more of a response before I had a final verdict. I got called scum for doing this and voting for Mr.Z to get any discussion from him at all. Seems nervous to commit to a vote. First the FoS on Hala rather than a vote and now this? Why so careful? Why so nervous about committing to a vote if you have a scum read on me? Wait isn't this also what the case on me said. Voting someone to get discussion out of someone? So Shady is being very hypocritical calling me scum for things he is doing as well. He doesn't even know BMB's filter, its only been 12 pages for the whole game, and BMB has been the main discussion for the whole time. He doesn't know about the main day 1 discussion? Does he care? He asks me for a response, but never specifies what this response is. He also says he will wagon on Zentor. Wow. So he has a scum read on me, but hes willing to vote on Node or Zentor, and has BMB in his mind. Wow Shady is sure keeping his options open.. So MKfuba you better have a better reason for voting me, other than I seem indifferent for who gets lynched, when you have Slim Shady over here voting anyone who is the popular choice at the time. So everyone who voted me, why don't you explain why you think I'm scum, rather than just regergitate what I posted and tell people what you think it meant? How is what I posted scum motivated etc? His tone is also completely different. Bothers explaining his opinions, and generally looks like he is scumhunting. Before his untimely demise, he's been playing a totally different ball game with his scumhunting. Much MUCH more than he's expressed here. One could argue that this is because he has a blue role or whatever, but even after his claim, where he should genuinely scumhunt, he does not. His gameplay is very VERY contrasting to the townie play he has made in death note mafia. | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
On October 11 2012 13:57 VisceraEyes wrote: I mean...no. I don't think that would have been optimal. It's D1 and mislynches happen. To bus in that situation would have been retarded imo. That's why I wanted to lynch Node - because there was resistence to the wagon in the form of people sticking on Shady. That's why I'm hung up on the Node switch - because Node COULD have been lynched - but people were all like "wtf dat wagon" when it's like...why dude? WHY?!? I call bullshit right there. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=371260¤tpage=25#499 You typed in ##vote node one minute after marv gave the first vote, being the second one to vote node. You wanted to lynch him waaay before there was any sort of information on the wagon. That's definitely not why you wanted to lynch node. | ||
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