it's gonna be fun !
/in
Also I need some help with the codes for the formatting...
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
it's gonna be fun ! /in Also I need some help with the codes for the formatting... | ||
Djodref
France3332 Posts
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Djodref
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About me This is my first game ever on forum but I've been playing on SC2mafia and also irl. But I've been lurking on the TL Mafia forum for a while (so I know your meta kush^^) and I decided to join this newbie game. I'm also a French guy and I live in Korea so my english is not on top and it's going to ne difficult for me to be around at deadline (5.00 am KST). Lurker policy From the games I've seen, unless you have a golden scumslip on d1, it's very difficult to lynch a scum the very first day. So I have no problem ending up voting for the most suspicious lurker at the end of the day. I define most suspicious lurker as a semi-lurker just trying to blend in. Day Plan I don't think to be able to be around for the first deadline so I would like to propose a day plan to secure a lynch as we are using a majority vote. First 24 hours to find lynch candidates while scumhunting and next 20 hours to decide who is the scummiest. Last 4 hours to consolidate the vote or switch to a lurker. Please discuss | ||
Djodref
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Considering that we are likely to lynch a town on D1, don't you think it's a lesser wrong to get rid of someone inactive ? Inactivity means no scumhunt and room to hide for the mafia... | ||
Djodref
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Nevermind you look just more confident to get a scum on D1 than me. Regarding my plan, I think we need general directions to follow because of the majority lynch. It is a way to gather everybody around 2-3 suspicious players and secure a lynch. I'm assuming everyone agree on a no-lynch to be stupid. | ||
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thank you now I won't be nk Was it also a joke ? How can you be so sure you are not going to be NKed ? | ||
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On September 28 2012 11:22 kushm4sta wrote: Because the most active townie is tunneling me? I would also like to hear you explanations about this specific part. I don't have a read on Darth on the moment considering he has only been hard tunneling you. As you said yourself you have a scummy meta so you are an easy target for early game to put pressure on. So what makes him so much town ? | ||
Djodref
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On September 28 2012 09:59 DarthPunk wrote: Firstly, if you were town you are not getting night killed. There is a reason that you have never been night killed, even when you claimed JK day one. Secondly, you are not getting night killed because you are not town. @DarthPunk Could you detail the reason you think Kush has never been NKed in the games he rolled town ? I found the quoted part a little illogical. | ||
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I also read through the last Newbie Mini Mafia games and I must agree he didn't mention night kills so much when he was town iirc. I'm looking forward his explanations about his town read on you and I hope more people can give their opinion about your case on Kush. As I was also reading the game where you were mafia roleblocker and I saw your ability to flame with Shiaopi, I'm not buying it yet. | ||
Djodref
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@debears First of all, my name is Djodref and not Djoref Let me know answer your points against me @Djoref + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 08:51 Djodref wrote: @Darthpunk Nevermind you look just more confident to get a scum on D1 than me. Regarding my plan, I think we need general directions to follow because of the majority lynch. It is a way to gather everybody around 2-3 suspicious players and secure a lynch. I'm assuming everyone agree on a no-lynch to be stupid. Djoref, I don't like that statement at all. That's the second post you bring up about the likelihood of lynching a townie d1. As town, you should never have that mentality. I would probably less likely to bring this up if you were a total nooby. However, you said you "know Kush's meta" which means you have some decent understanding of the game for a noob. By saying this, it seems that you are setting yourself an excuse to be indecisive later in the day when the lynch voting comes around. Alone, it isn't much. However, your other posts don't help. I have never seen a scum lynched D1 in all the games I checked on the TL Mafia forums except for the TL Mafia LVII. And there was a stupid obvious fakeclaim in this game. I'll try my best to nail a scum but I'm not confident in my reads. But I'm not going to use this as an excuse to be indecisive. I'm just stating that I have no problem to put my vote on a suspicious or inactive lurker. Suspicious as semi-lurker just blending in would be better. On September 28 2012 08:44 Djodref wrote: @Darthpunk Considering that we are likely to lynch a town on D1, don't you think it's a lesser wrong to get rid of someone inactive ? Inactivity means no scumhunt and room to hide for the mafia... After playing mafia last game, I feel like heavy lurking is a bad play for mafia. It puts too much pressure on you are as a scum. Instead, posting lightly without much substance is more mafia indicative. Yet again, I feel you are just looking like you are contributing without saying much. Especially when you already covered your thoughts in a previous post. On September 28 2012 08:36 Djodref wrote: Hello everybody ! About me This is my first game ever on forum but I've been playing on SC2mafia and also irl. But I've been lurking on the TL Mafia forum for a while (so I know your meta kush^^) and I decided to join this newbie game. I'm also a French guy and I live in Korea so my english is not on top and it's going to ne difficult for me to be around at deadline (5.00 am KST). Lurker policy From the games I've seen, unless you have a golden scumslip on d1, it's very difficult to lynch a scum the very first day. So I have no problem ending up voting for the most suspicious lurker at the end of the day. I define most suspicious lurker as a semi-lurker just trying to blend in. Day Plan I don't think to be able to be around for the first deadline so I would like to propose a day plan to secure a lynch as we are using a majority vote. First 24 hours to find lynch candidates while scumhunting and next 20 hours to decide who is the scummiest. Last 4 hours to consolidate the vote or switch to a lurker. Please discuss Notice how you are just repeating points? It isn't helpful to us. Next post On September 28 2012 11:09 Djodref wrote: @Kush Was it also a joke ? How can you be so sure you are not going to be NKed ? A two sentence, two question post. I don't like these. They are worthless. Also, this question came quite a bit later after darthpunk already was asking questions about joking. You seem to be sheeping onto darth's case against kush. I'm not buying the case against Kush yet On September 28 2012 11:53 Djodref wrote: Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 11:22 kushm4sta wrote: Because the most active townie is tunneling me? I would also like to hear you explanations about this specific part. I don't have a read on Darth on the moment considering he has only been hard tunneling you. As you said yourself you have a scummy meta so you are an easy target for early game to put pressure on. So what makes him so much town ? Yet again, this post is just repeating what darth is saying. Another question. I don't like this. Your early posts are indicative of a semi-active scum. Sheeping, question posts, and rehashing things already said multiple times. I know that the quality of my post is not stellar but please remind that it's my first game on a forum ever. I'll try to improve and make a personal case but I didn't find any material yet. Also I liked your case against me so thank you for pointing what was wrong in my posts. I'm starting to have a town read on you. | ||
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I would also add that my question posts are totally legit. I want to have precisions about the points that struck me as odd in anybody's posts. But I admit they were not very original. Nevertheless, Kush slipped by answering my question about the NK. @Everyone I'm going to take a stance on Kush when he explains why he thinks Darth to be town. | ||
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For your information, i consider the comments of debears on my posts legitimate. Let me say that I even don't like them. Currently reading the guides and older game analysis. | ||
Djodref
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I'm actually working in Korea so I don't enjoy so much free time . But a big national holiday is coming this week end so I should be able to participate to the thread and finish to read all the guides. @everyone This also means party time ! I'm currently headed to get drunk all night so you shouldn't be hearing from me until tomorrow 12.00 pm KST. Also I'm accepting Kush explanation for calling Darth a townie but it would be better for him to refrain calling someone a townie or a scum without explanations later on... | ||
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Djodref
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On September 28 2012 21:18 Djodref wrote: @corrosion I'm actually working in Korea so I don't enjoy so much free time . But a big national holiday is coming this week end so I should be able to participate to the thread and finish to read all the guides. @everyone This also means party time ! I'm currently headed to get drunk all night so you shouldn't be hearing from me until tomorrow 12.00 pm KST. Also I'm accepting Kush explanation for calling Darth a townie but it would be better for him to refrain calling someone a townie or a scum without explanations later on... I did accept his explanation at the time but I cannot let him off the hook for the posts where he said he didn't care about this game anymore. Also I really don't like the posts where he implies that debears is his scum partner. I don't see any pro-town motivation for such posts. That's why he's getting my vote now. ##Vote: kushm4sta Also a side note for the guys having trouble with my pseudo, you can call me Djo if you want | ||
Djodref
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I would like to bring up something that struck me in the post of corrosion about Darth. I didn't like this post in general because it didn't match my interpretations of the early events between Kush and Darth but I understand that our views can differ. But looking back at corrosion filter, he's trying to find scummy motivation for Darth to give his links to his previous game. Check the bolded part in the spoiler. + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 04:29 corrosion wrote: I'm just going to address the "fight" between Darth and Kush. I'm going to focus on Darth for now. Looking more closely into Kush's contribution is something I think should be done well ahead of lynch time. I'm actually going to start by telling about some thoughts I had after reading my role PM. I was trying to figure out what players town should be focusing on. I had obsed NMMXXVII, and came to the conclusion that it might be reasonable to go after any player except Kush. I figured that Kush was going to make a lot of posts anyway, so I was thinking that we could get a good analysis of him without any early pressure. One of the first things Darth did was to antagonize Kush: + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 06:58 kushm4sta wrote: @sonic getting everyone's thoughts on lurker policy is important. Don't argue about it but share your views on the matter please.. No it's not. It is simply a mechanism to get the discussion going and allows scum to seem to participate and to potentially mislynch an inactive townie. Any more talk of policy will get you FoS'd. I'm thinking that this could easily be an attempt to start a fight that would result in derailing the thread. Kush responded the way I expected him to, and these two posters exchanged arguments back and forth. In the middle of this, Darth made a remark against lurkers, but quickly changed his focus back on Kush. Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 10:36 DarthPunk wrote: So is everyone just going to drop their welcome posts and then afk? I don't see why he should make this comment at this time, since it wasn't going to get looked at while there was a fight going on. Shortly afterwards, Kush makes his supposed scum slip. Darth jumps on it, and shortly afterwards he posts about his previous mafia games. I've watched the game where he played cop, and seen that he and Shady argued a lot on D1. So I was thinking that this seems to be Darth's town meta. But I also asked myself why he did post about his previous games at this point in time. Maybe this was all intentional. Suppose he suddenly remembered that game. He might not have wanted people to look at those games earlier, but now he realized that if he posted them he would be able to establish a town read on himself. I'm not sure if this is a strong case against Darth at the moment. I would like some input from the more experienced players here. If Kush hadn't made that slip, I think the derailing argument would have looked strong. Now it doesn't look so strong, because we've actually gotten new information. I'm not saying that I'm sure the scum slip is an actual slip, but if it is and it results in a succesful lynch, I think town got very lucky. Scum usually wouldn't slip in such an obvious manner. His cases against Debears and Alsn are something that might reveal useful information, but I've not studied them closely yet. I still think that Kush seems more suspicious when everything is taken into consideration but with all the focus that has been on him, I'm sure someone else can post a decent case on him before we need to consider our first lynch. But Darth was just answering a request from debears ! + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 11:39 debears wrote: As I said, I want a quick look at you first. Second, there isn't much more to add to what you said about it. It does give off the impression of extra information. I think corrosion was trying to cast scummy shadow on Darth to shift the focus on Kush. I did so by omitting/deforming some parts of the thread history. Also, he fits my definition of a semi-lurker trying to blend in. So, corrosion, until I got your explanations about this point, I got my eyes on you. ##FoS: corrosion | ||
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Djodref
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Considering my backflip on Kush, the general feeling I got from his latest posts is that he is not going to help the town in any way. At least we should get rid of him for a better town atmosphere. But I also think he is scum after all At first I accepted his slip because his meta is to be careless as town. Also he did provide some explanation for it (it was light but could have been genuine). After this, two things changed my mind. Firstly SDM convinced me this was a real scumslip with this post + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 05:05 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: Making a Kush case at this point is kind of like trying to kick in an open door. Like Alsn I was thinking even before the game started how to handle Kush. People say he has a scummy meta and I guess that's true to an extent, but there are certainly some significant differences. Some of those things were pointed out by Hapa in the XXVII aftermath, advice Kush seemed to just shrug off (eh, he kind of went OMGUS on Hapa). Hapa points out the difference in how Kush defends himself when he's town, here's his defense against drazak's case in XXVI (as town): + Show Spoiler + On September 05 2012 13:25 kushm4sta wrote: Show nested quote + On September 05 2012 11:55 drazak wrote: On September 04 2012 03:01 kushm4sta wrote: Why town should all vote for cuba Worst case scenario:he flips green No big deal, we lynched the worst townie (barring WeeTee whose behavior fits his meta like a glove, and kville who is being replaced). From his posts it's clear he has no intention of contributing more than he is already, which is nothing. Plus that would give thrawn some serious town points in my book, since he refuses to vote for him. Thrawn is good for town atmosphere and very active. It would be quite useful to our scumhunt if we could trust thrawn. Best case scenario: he is mafia If Cuba is mafia, I think there is a very high chance that thrawn is also mafia. In which case we will know 2 mafia first day and basically win the game. People who are specifically against lynching cuba: cuba, thrawn. People who have voted for or accused drazak: cuba, thrawn. Twice now thrawn has attempted to redirect the lynch vote away from cuba onto somebody else. Thrawn says he won't vote for cuba because unlike stutters, cuba has participated in the scumhunt. By scumhunt you mean his failed attempt to bandwagon drazak with you? We need three more votes on cuba. I'm bringing this post, and Kushm4sta into suspiscion. It seemed like you didn't actually think Cubu was mafia. Your reasoning (and lack there of) makes it clear that you weren't voting because you thought Cubu was mafia, but because you thought there was a slim chance of it and that then Thrawn would be a townie. T I think you might be mafia trying to lead town into bad lynches. Why would you vote people who you don't think are mafia if you're town? I think you're mafia, Kush. ##Vote Kushm4sta I pushed the cubu vote because 1)he was a bad poster/lurker and it worked as a policy lynch if nothing else 2)how he turned revealed a lot about thrawn, who i assumed medic or jb would save because he was the obvious choice in my mind I thought it was very fishy that thrawn tried to redirect twice, and so I got very excited with the prospect of identifying two mafia in the first day. Also at the time I thought, as did thrawn, that kville was going to be replaced. So that's why I called him the worst townie. Now it's clear that honor belongs to kville. Also jacob I don't get how this is a good argument? It's reasoning is only one sentence: Show nested quote + Your reasoning (and lack there of) makes it clear that you weren't voting because you thought Cubu was mafia, but because you thought there was a slim chance of it and that then Thrawn would be a townie. I think he means that then thrawn would be mafia, but right now that sentence, which is his ONLY argumentation, makes no sense. I didn't think anyone else seemed more scumlike than he did. Although I did know that was a big chance of him not being scum. See, drazzy darling, when there are a ton of lurkers/terrible townies in the game like yourself, it makes it pretty fucking hard to win as town. And my last defense of myself is to invoke the holy name of the late thrawn, who, on the night of his untimely death, proclaimed me as his biggest town read. Read his defense of me because I'm sure it's better than anything I could do. REST IN PEACE THRAWN TT Not to OMGUS, but this actually makes drazak seem quite suspicious to me. Mostly because I am the most active poster now that thrawn is gone. Maybe I'm biased about the matter but what do other people think? I will look through his filter more tomorrow. Kush tends to OMGUS whether scum or town, but the way in which he OMGUS differs. When scum he's confident and aggressive, when town he's more diplomatic and logical. In this game, the former certainly holds true. Other than that, town Kush seems to focus scum hunting (check his early XXVI filter) while scum Kush is focusing on defending himself and posting tons of fluff (he even mentioned in the XXVII Mafia QT that his strategy was to post a shit ton). In this game his scum hunting is pretty much non-existent while he's been defending himself and posting fluff just like in XXVII. The most significant piece of information in this game though is his scum slip and his explanation. The slip is significant. I have a really hard time believing that the mother of all OMGUSing would be calling his attacker townie. Unless, of course, he's in possession of extra information and it's a slip. His defense isn't very convincing. Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 20:12 kushm4sta wrote: 2. My supposed scumslip: huh? What else should I have called you? Player? Person? Maybe but to me those things sound awkward. Townie just seemed like the most non awkward word to use. Innocent until proven guilty. That's how we do it in America bro. Of course he's been using "people" and "person" a lot in past games, but this post from XXVII is a good example on how he views his attackers: Show nested quote + On September 18 2012 20:27 kushm4sta wrote: what I said about flame wars.. that is what I did in the last two previous games. for instance drazak accused me really hard and I basically just called him a bad player again and again. I am trying to avoid that this game though. I really hate waking up to people fosing me...feels bad It's also worth pointing out that drazak attacking him made Kush suspicious of drazak (post quoted above), he did the complete opposite of making a town read on him. Secondly the two calls from kush to debears are disturbing me + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 07:44 kushm4sta wrote: debears I saved you bro...scumteam 4 lyfe I know he was being sarcastic and referring to a previous game but this is absolutely anti-town in my eyes. It's just confusing me and giving me a WIFOM headache and I don't need it with all the bad whiskey I drunk yesterday. He did apologize for his behavior later on but he's doing it again here. + Show Spoiler + [QUOTE]On September 29 2012 12:14 kushm4sta wrote: debears hf you are dying next. So I'm calling a kush/debears/corrosion scumteam rightnow. But honestly it would be lame if it was the case... | ||
Djodref
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In my mind, debears is scum by association with kush. If by any chance kush turns out to be town, I'm back to a null read on him. Regarding corrosion, there is also association with kush but I also have an independent scumread on him. | ||
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I second Z-BosoN post. At first, I was having a town read on you after you called both of us for our post quality + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 13:53 Djodref wrote: @debears First of all, my name is Djodref and not Djoref Let me know answer your points against me Show nested quote + @Djoref + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 08:51 Djodref wrote: @Darthpunk Nevermind you look just more confident to get a scum on D1 than me. Regarding my plan, I think we need general directions to follow because of the majority lynch. It is a way to gather everybody around 2-3 suspicious players and secure a lynch. I'm assuming everyone agree on a no-lynch to be stupid. Djoref, I don't like that statement at all. That's the second post you bring up about the likelihood of lynching a townie d1. As town, you should never have that mentality. I would probably less likely to bring this up if you were a total nooby. However, you said you "know Kush's meta" which means you have some decent understanding of the game for a noob. By saying this, it seems that you are setting yourself an excuse to be indecisive later in the day when the lynch voting comes around. Alone, it isn't much. However, your other posts don't help. I have never seen a scum lynched D1 in all the games I checked on the TL Mafia forums except for the TL Mafia LVII. And there was a stupid obvious fakeclaim in this game. I'll try my best to nail a scum but I'm not confident in my reads. But I'm not going to use this as an excuse to be indecisive. I'm just stating that I have no problem to put my vote on a suspicious or inactive lurker. Suspicious as semi-lurker just blending in would be better. On September 28 2012 08:44 Djodref wrote: @Darthpunk Considering that we are likely to lynch a town on D1, don't you think it's a lesser wrong to get rid of someone inactive ? Inactivity means no scumhunt and room to hide for the mafia... After playing mafia last game, I feel like heavy lurking is a bad play for mafia. It puts too much pressure on you are as a scum. Instead, posting lightly without much substance is more mafia indicative. Yet again, I feel you are just looking like you are contributing without saying much. Especially when you already covered your thoughts in a previous post. On September 28 2012 08:36 Djodref wrote: Hello everybody ! About me This is my first game ever on forum but I've been playing on SC2mafia and also irl. But I've been lurking on the TL Mafia forum for a while (so I know your meta kush^^) and I decided to join this newbie game. I'm also a French guy and I live in Korea so my english is not on top and it's going to ne difficult for me to be around at deadline (5.00 am KST). Lurker policy From the games I've seen, unless you have a golden scumslip on d1, it's very difficult to lynch a scum the very first day. So I have no problem ending up voting for the most suspicious lurker at the end of the day. I define most suspicious lurker as a semi-lurker just trying to blend in. Day Plan I don't think to be able to be around for the first deadline so I would like to propose a day plan to secure a lynch as we are using a majority vote. First 24 hours to find lynch candidates while scumhunting and next 20 hours to decide who is the scummiest. Last 4 hours to consolidate the vote or switch to a lurker. Please discuss Notice how you are just repeating points? It isn't helpful to us. Next post On September 28 2012 11:09 Djodref wrote: @Kush Was it also a joke ? How can you be so sure you are not going to be NKed ? A two sentence, two question post. I don't like these. They are worthless. Also, this question came quite a bit later after darthpunk already was asking questions about joking. You seem to be sheeping onto darth's case against kush. I'm not buying the case against Kush yet On September 28 2012 11:53 Djodref wrote: Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 11:22 kushm4sta wrote: Because the most active townie is tunneling me? I would also like to hear you explanations about this specific part. I don't have a read on Darth on the moment considering he has only been hard tunneling you. As you said yourself you have a scummy meta so you are an easy target for early game to put pressure on. So what makes him so much town ? Yet again, this post is just repeating what darth is saying. Another question. I don't like this. Your early posts are indicative of a semi-active scum. Sheeping, question posts, and rehashing things already said multiple times. I know that the quality of my post is not stellar but please remind that it's my first game on a forum ever. I'll try to improve and make a personal case but I didn't find any material yet. Also I liked your case against me so thank you for pointing what was wrong in my posts. I'm starting to have a town read on you. But if kush flips red and in the light of this case from Z-BosoN on you + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 05:29 Z-BosoN wrote: All right, I went through debears filter now, and I'm confident he is scum. Let's go through this more carefully now. His first post: Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 11:05 debears wrote: Lol. Kush already going at it. Hey guys. I'm debears. This is my second game ever of mafia. I have a couple of things to add: + Show Spoiler + Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 09:18 DarthPunk wrote: On September 28 2012 09:10 Z-BosoN wrote: On September 28 2012 08:43 DarthPunk wrote: It is not impossible to find scum on the first day. Policy lynches get you no info, you are most likely going to hit a townie, and you end up in the same position the next day minus 2 town. @Djodref your 'day plan' is unnecessary. Scum hunt, vote for your top scum read and everything else will fall into place. After LVII I'm rather liking the idea of policy lynches, in extreme cases. Killing lurkers in a lurker-infested town, for example, is something I'm inclined to agree on. If the town proves itself active, then whoever proves himself scummier will occupy the noose. Given that this is a newbie game, scums are generally more scared to post. While that is a general tendency, I don't agree with mass posters being cleared right off the bat, even if their posts seem meaningful. What I suggest in this game, is that people read. From my few games, much time is usually wasted discussing things that have not been read properly. On September 28 2012 06:56 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: Cool, we're on. Pretty bad timing though, I'm off to bed and then I've got a day at uni before I can really start posting. I hope to God when I get back we've moved past the lurker policy discussion. My message to newbies: the best way for you to clear yourself is to post a lot. Don't post just for the sake of posting though, that'll make you look like scum because posting for the sake of posting is what scum do. This is a rather useless post. Newbie towns want to scumhunt. Newbie scum want to look like they are scumhunting. That =/= posting a lot but not for the sake of posting, or whatever you meant. And please tell me, what do you mean? You say you hope to have moved past the lurker discussion, and yet you are telling people to post a lot? In my eyes you are telling people not to lurk because that will make them seem scummy. It seems to me that you are indirectly stating your views on lurkers despite openly saying you don't want to talk about them. Meh. Don't like lurker policy lynches at all. It just tells scum: Post. and your safe. I have read every post so far as scummy and I don't see SDM's post as more or less scummy than the others. But posting a lot will let people get a good read on you so you should 100% be doing this as town. And then if all the townies are posting you force scum to. Which makes it much easier to nab them also. SO. Post a lot if you are town. You make scum uncomfortable and facilitate town reads on yourself and scum reads on scum. You also clutter the thread if you just post alot. Let me specify. Post quality as often as you can. That means reread the thread and build good cases. One liners don't do much good. Cases with multiple quotes and a few sentences of explanation per quote are good (most of the time). Also, USE YOUR COACHES TOWN. Thrawn pmed Hapa over 50 times last game and he had the best town performance. That isn't a coincidence. @Kush I don't like the way you are starting off this game kush. It's eerily similar as last game when you were mafia. You mention you're deathless streak, nk, and your scummy meta without anyone bringing it up. You should know that I most likely know you're trends better than anyone else in this game. The only difference between this game and last is that you have engaged in a flame war with Darth this game, which is unhelpful to our town. FOS Kush @everyone One more thing: Feel free to accuse and build cases on anyone you want for the first 24 hours. However, let's start tunneling for the second 24 hours. Also, I would like everyone to start considering a lurker (in your head) once we hit the second 24 hours as a backup. If we get close to the lynch deadline, and there are no scummy candidates, feel free to post a good case on which lurker would be the best candidate. First of all, his "I want town to win!!" post telling town to use their coaches. He then FoS's Kush, due to the fact that he's playing a similar game as the one he was scum. He says that DP + kush flame war is bad for the town, but doesn't attack Darthpunk, probably because he finds kush to be more scummy looking. Now, from a townie perspective, what does debear want? Information in order to lynch kush, as he pointed a FOS mostly based on a meta read. But suddenly, towards darthpunk: Show nested quote + snip --You could also say that you are too convinced in your reasons. What I am cautious of at this point is that you stated directly before the game that you were after kush if he plays like he has in his past 3 games. I feel like that may be clouding your judgement in this situation. Our main goal is to lynch mafia. Yes, kush has said some scummy things. However, I'm not gonna go around parading this early saying "kush is scum. Kush is scum. OMFG". Also, let the man defend himself instead of trying to rally everyone active behind your cause so early. If he is scummy, the votes will come. He is defensive towards kush. That's not how townies think. While I agree that DP is a bit overboard on kush, I don't agree that he failed to give arguments as to why he thinks that is so. A townie with a FOS on someone will want to deal with the arguments first. He doesn't do that, and suddenly becomes defensive on Kush. He says, later: Show nested quote + I'm not defending him as much as I'm trying to tell you that you are going overboard right now. You don't have to rush in annointing him scum. He is more bothered by DPs certainty than by his actual arguments. Inconsistency #1. He then comes up with two cases. One against me, and one against Djoref: Show nested quote + @Boson + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 09:10 Z-BosoN wrote: Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 08:43 DarthPunk wrote: It is not impossible to find scum on the first day. Policy lynches get you no info, you are most likely going to hit a townie, and you end up in the same position the next day minus 2 town. @Djodref your 'day plan' is unnecessary. Scum hunt, vote for your top scum read and everything else will fall into place. After LVII I'm rather liking the idea of policy lynches, in extreme cases. Killing lurkers in a lurker-infested town, for example, is something I'm inclined to agree on. If the town proves itself active, then whoever proves himself scummier will occupy the noose. Given that this is a newbie game, scums are generally more scared to post. While that is a general tendency, I don't agree with mass posters being cleared right off the bat, even if their posts seem meaningful. What I suggest in this game, is that people read. From my few games, much time is usually wasted discussing things that have not been read properly. Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 06:56 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: Cool, we're on. Pretty bad timing though, I'm off to bed and then I've got a day at uni before I can really start posting. I hope to God when I get back we've moved past the lurker policy discussion. My message to newbies: the best way for you to clear yourself is to post a lot. Don't post just for the sake of posting though, that'll make you look like scum because posting for the sake of posting is what scum do. This is a rather useless post. Newbie towns want to scumhunt. Newbie scum want to look like they are scumhunting. That =/= posting a lot but not for the sake of posting, or whatever you meant. And please tell me, what do you mean? You say you hope to have moved past the lurker discussion, and yet you are telling people to post a lot? In my eyes you are telling people not to lurk because that will make them seem scummy. It seems to me that you are indirectly stating your views on lurkers despite openly saying you don't want to talk about them. Boson, please try not to read too hard into a person's very first posts and make something out of nothing. It is pretty clear what sonic was saying. He wants newbies to post so that they don't get grouped under the lurker corral that usually follows up later. Last game, we had lurkers galore and it really messed up the town. Also, you mention that his post is useless. Now I will examine your two other posts in terms of uselessness. On September 28 2012 09:12 Z-BosoN wrote: Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 09:01 kushm4sta wrote: On September 28 2012 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: On September 28 2012 06:58 kushm4sta wrote: @sonic getting everyone's thoughts on lurker policy is important. Don't argue about it but share your views on the matter please.. No it's not. It is simply a mechanism to get the discussion going and allows scum to seem to participate and to potentially mislynch an inactive townie. Any more talk of policy will get you FoS'd. Sorry but who appointed this asshole boss? you get people's thoughts on lurker policy, so you can catch them deviating from it later and question them about it. And why are you that scared of a FOS? A one-liner. A question that really doesn't accomplish anything. In other words, a useless post. Also, your next post doesn't address his response although he responded right after and you posted within 30 minutes of his response in a pretty light thread. On September 28 2012 09:43 Z-BosoN wrote: @DP Saying we will lynch lurkers is one thing. Deciding whether a lurker should die later at day two is another. What I said is I'm inclined to lynch a lurker if there aren't better choices, not that we will 100% lynch a lurker. @Stutters I'd like to see more posts from you. In XXIV you showed you were capable of making decent posts as town, so I encourage you to post eve more here. @kush What's your view on darthpunk? You said you don't like his coldness, but you don't like it in a "he's scum" sort of way? Yet again, nothing of substance here. You go more in depth about semantics (is that the right word I'm looking for?) about lynching lurkers and lynching lurkers at day two. Second, you call out stutters, who has already been warned by others and most likely the mods for no reason this early in the game. Finally, two sentences, two questions going on about the exact wording of kush's statements. It sounded like before the game you had stated that you have played in multiple games. Is that true? For someone who is telling other people to not post useless posts, you aren't doing a good job of it yourself. Looks more like you are trying to just be active while off the radar. In other words, you are a semi-active lurker who has bad post quality. Sounds like characteristics of a certain alignment. @Djoref + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 08:51 Djodref wrote: @Darthpunk Nevermind you look just more confident to get a scum on D1 than me. Regarding my plan, I think we need general directions to follow because of the majority lynch. It is a way to gather everybody around 2-3 suspicious players and secure a lynch. I'm assuming everyone agree on a no-lynch to be stupid. Djoref, I don't like that statement at all. That's the second post you bring up about the likelihood of lynching a townie d1. As town, you should never have that mentality. I would probably less likely to bring this up if you were a total nooby. However, you said you "know Kush's meta" which means you have some decent understanding of the game for a noob. By saying this, it seems that you are setting yourself an excuse to be indecisive later in the day when the lynch voting comes around. Alone, it isn't much. However, your other posts don't help. On September 28 2012 08:44 Djodref wrote: @Darthpunk Considering that we are likely to lynch a town on D1, don't you think it's a lesser wrong to get rid of someone inactive ? Inactivity means no scumhunt and room to hide for the mafia... After playing mafia last game, I feel like heavy lurking is a bad play for mafia. It puts too much pressure on you are as a scum. Instead, posting lightly without much substance is more mafia indicative. Yet again, I feel you are just looking like you are contributing without saying much. Especially when you already covered your thoughts in a previous post. On September 28 2012 08:36 Djodref wrote: Hello everybody ! About me This is my first game ever on forum but I've been playing on SC2mafia and also irl. But I've been lurking on the TL Mafia forum for a while (so I know your meta kush^^) and I decided to join this newbie game. I'm also a French guy and I live in Korea so my english is not on top and it's going to ne difficult for me to be around at deadline (5.00 am KST). Lurker policy From the games I've seen, unless you have a golden scumslip on d1, it's very difficult to lynch a scum the very first day. So I have no problem ending up voting for the most suspicious lurker at the end of the day. I define most suspicious lurker as a semi-lurker just trying to blend in. Day Plan I don't think to be able to be around for the first deadline so I would like to propose a day plan to secure a lynch as we are using a majority vote. First 24 hours to find lynch candidates while scumhunting and next 20 hours to decide who is the scummiest. Last 4 hours to consolidate the vote or switch to a lurker. Please discuss Notice how you are just repeating points? It isn't helpful to us. Next post On September 28 2012 11:09 Djodref wrote: @Kush Was it also a joke ? How can you be so sure you are not going to be NKed ? A two sentence, two question post. I don't like these. They are worthless. Also, this question came quite a bit later after darthpunk already was asking questions about joking. You seem to be sheeping onto darth's case against kush. On September 28 2012 11:53 Djodref wrote: Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 11:22 kushm4sta wrote: Because the most active townie is tunneling me? I would also like to hear you explanations about this specific part. I don't have a read on Darth on the moment considering he has only been hard tunneling you. As you said yourself you have a scummy meta so you are an easy target for early game to put pressure on. So what makes him so much town ? Yet again, this post is just repeating what darth is saying. Another question. I don't like this. Your early posts are indicative of a semi-active scum. Sheeping, question posts, and rehashing things already said multiple times. Notice the similarity between the two. He attacks us for asking questions (later on denies that they provide any discussion whatsoever), and falls into the same "semi-active lurker" category he's sniffing about. I will ignore the quality of his arguments, which I personally think are horrible, and will look more towards their similarity. From his case against me: Show nested quote + A one-liner. A question that really doesn't accomplish anything. In other words, a useless post. Also, your next post doesn't address his response although he responded right after and you posted within 30 minutes of his response in a pretty light thread. Show nested quote + For someone who is telling other people to not post useless posts, you aren't doing a good job of it yourself. Looks more like you are trying to just be active while off the radar. In other words, you are a semi-active lurker who has bad post quality. Sounds like characteristics of a certain alignment. From his case against Djoref: Show nested quote + A two sentence, two question post. I don't like these. They are worthless. Also, this question came quite a bit later after darthpunk already was asking questions about joking. You seem to be sheeping onto darth's case against kush. Show nested quote + Your early posts are indicative of a semi-active scum. Sheeping, question posts, and rehashing things already said multiple times. See the similarity, especially the bolded part? It seems that he has this "semi-active scum" cake recipe that he is using to sniff out scum. He also calls us out on our posting quality, in my case saying it is bad. I won't address his next post towards me because I've already done so, and because it doesn't increase his scumminess , as "bad cases =/= scum" (although it pisses me off). Anyways, now to the main stuff. He has a case against me and Djoref, for pretty much the same reasoning. Yet, check out what his next post on Djoref is: Show nested quote + On September 29 2012 01:55 debears wrote: @Djoref On September 28 2012 15:22 Djodref wrote: @DarthPunk For your information, i consider the comments of debears on my posts legitimate. Let me say that I even don't like them. Currently reading the guides and older game analysis. Please pm marv for help. The coaches are great Wtf??? What ?? Where is his case against Djoref?? He goes from a scummy-looking sheep with one liners to a "townie who should pm marv for help"? Could he have forgotten that Djoref was one of his main suspicions? Inconsistency #2 Note that I no longer think that his defense of SDM is scummy. I've gone over that a few times and I admit that it can also come from a townie perspective. To summarize, here are the main inconsistencies in his play that scream to me SCUM: 1) He had a FOS on kush, then hurried on to defend him, in the manner I've shown above. I cannot fathom for the life of me having a FOS on someone and suddenly feel like I have to address an exaggeration on that person before I actually address the case. 2) He completely absolves Djoref for absolutely no reason. Townies do not throw around suspicions only to insta-drop them. 3) The other supporting arguments I've shown above. debears is SCUM! ##vote debears I must say it would be very likely for you to be scum. Also kush could have been gamethrowing by mentioning you twice. Hence the "scum by association" By the way, what is your read on me now ? | ||
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I would like you to be more active on the thread. What are your scum read in the exception of kush ? | ||
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Well, I believed that you were soft defending him but at a second read it looks like you just didn't want Darth to go overboard with his accusations. But you should admit it's not consistent with your earlier FoS on Kush. People would expect you to join Darth to pressure kush even more. Don't you think so ? Also I don't understand you stances on my alignment. After your first case on me, I thought you were suspicious of me. Later on, you recommend me to pm marv for help. You certainly know that marv is the town coach. So did you just let go your suspicions and consider me as town newbie ? Your town motivation would be to help a fellow citizen but in this case why do you think I'm town ? Your mafia motivation would be budding me and show pro-town behavior (unfortunately while slipping). And I would like you to answer my questions clearly in the future and not throwing me a question back. | ||
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so let me reformulate my question so we can understand each other better this time What is your read about me so far ? [/list] [*]town [*]null [*]scum [/list] You can use quantitative adjectives | ||
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well, it's because of the two following posts of debears towards me + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 13:24 debears wrote: @darthpunk You could also say that you are too convinced in your reasons. What I am cautious of at this point is that you stated directly before the game that you were after kush if he plays like he has in his past 3 games. I feel like that may be clouding your judgement in this situation. Our main goal is to lynch mafia. Yes, kush has said some scummy things. However, I'm not gonna go around parading this early saying "kush is scum. Kush is scum. OMFG". Also, let the man defend himself instead of trying to rally everyone active behind your cause so early. If he is scummy, the votes will come. Anyhow. I see two others who have suspiciously posted. @Boson + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 09:10 Z-BosoN wrote: Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 08:43 DarthPunk wrote: It is not impossible to find scum on the first day. Policy lynches get you no info, you are most likely going to hit a townie, and you end up in the same position the next day minus 2 town. @Djodref your 'day plan' is unnecessary. Scum hunt, vote for your top scum read and everything else will fall into place. After LVII I'm rather liking the idea of policy lynches, in extreme cases. Killing lurkers in a lurker-infested town, for example, is something I'm inclined to agree on. If the town proves itself active, then whoever proves himself scummier will occupy the noose. Given that this is a newbie game, scums are generally more scared to post. While that is a general tendency, I don't agree with mass posters being cleared right off the bat, even if their posts seem meaningful. What I suggest in this game, is that people read. From my few games, much time is usually wasted discussing things that have not been read properly. Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 06:56 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: Cool, we're on. Pretty bad timing though, I'm off to bed and then I've got a day at uni before I can really start posting. I hope to God when I get back we've moved past the lurker policy discussion. My message to newbies: the best way for you to clear yourself is to post a lot. Don't post just for the sake of posting though, that'll make you look like scum because posting for the sake of posting is what scum do. This is a rather useless post. Newbie towns want to scumhunt. Newbie scum want to look like they are scumhunting. That =/= posting a lot but not for the sake of posting, or whatever you meant. And please tell me, what do you mean? You say you hope to have moved past the lurker discussion, and yet you are telling people to post a lot? In my eyes you are telling people not to lurk because that will make them seem scummy. It seems to me that you are indirectly stating your views on lurkers despite openly saying you don't want to talk about them. Boson, please try not to read too hard into a person's very first posts and make something out of nothing. It is pretty clear what sonic was saying. He wants newbies to post so that they don't get grouped under the lurker corral that usually follows up later. Last game, we had lurkers galore and it really messed up the town. Also, you mention that his post is useless. Now I will examine your two other posts in terms of uselessness. On September 28 2012 09:12 Z-BosoN wrote: Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 09:01 kushm4sta wrote: On September 28 2012 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: On September 28 2012 06:58 kushm4sta wrote: @sonic getting everyone's thoughts on lurker policy is important. Don't argue about it but share your views on the matter please.. No it's not. It is simply a mechanism to get the discussion going and allows scum to seem to participate and to potentially mislynch an inactive townie. Any more talk of policy will get you FoS'd. Sorry but who appointed this asshole boss? you get people's thoughts on lurker policy, so you can catch them deviating from it later and question them about it. And why are you that scared of a FOS? A one-liner. A question that really doesn't accomplish anything. In other words, a useless post. Also, your next post doesn't address his response although he responded right after and you posted within 30 minutes of his response in a pretty light thread. On September 28 2012 09:43 Z-BosoN wrote: @DP Saying we will lynch lurkers is one thing. Deciding whether a lurker should die later at day two is another. What I said is I'm inclined to lynch a lurker if there aren't better choices, not that we will 100% lynch a lurker. @Stutters I'd like to see more posts from you. In XXIV you showed you were capable of making decent posts as town, so I encourage you to post eve more here. @kush What's your view on darthpunk? You said you don't like his coldness, but you don't like it in a "he's scum" sort of way? Yet again, nothing of substance here. You go more in depth about semantics (is that the right word I'm looking for?) about lynching lurkers and lynching lurkers at day two. Second, you call out stutters, who has already been warned by others and most likely the mods for no reason this early in the game. Finally, two sentences, two questions going on about the exact wording of kush's statements. It sounded like before the game you had stated that you have played in multiple games. Is that true? For someone who is telling other people to not post useless posts, you aren't doing a good job of it yourself. Looks more like you are trying to just be active while off the radar. In other words, you are a semi-active lurker who has bad post quality. Sounds like characteristics of a certain alignment. @Djoref + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 08:51 Djodref wrote: @Darthpunk Nevermind you look just more confident to get a scum on D1 than me. Regarding my plan, I think we need general directions to follow because of the majority lynch. It is a way to gather everybody around 2-3 suspicious players and secure a lynch. I'm assuming everyone agree on a no-lynch to be stupid. Djoref, I don't like that statement at all. That's the second post you bring up about the likelihood of lynching a townie d1. As town, you should never have that mentality. I would probably less likely to bring this up if you were a total nooby. However, you said you "know Kush's meta" which means you have some decent understanding of the game for a noob. By saying this, it seems that you are setting yourself an excuse to be indecisive later in the day when the lynch voting comes around. Alone, it isn't much. However, your other posts don't help. On September 28 2012 08:44 Djodref wrote: @Darthpunk Considering that we are likely to lynch a town on D1, don't you think it's a lesser wrong to get rid of someone inactive ? Inactivity means no scumhunt and room to hide for the mafia... After playing mafia last game, I feel like heavy lurking is a bad play for mafia. It puts too much pressure on you are as a scum. Instead, posting lightly without much substance is more mafia indicative. Yet again, I feel you are just looking like you are contributing without saying much. Especially when you already covered your thoughts in a previous post. On September 28 2012 08:36 Djodref wrote: Hello everybody ! About me This is my first game ever on forum but I've been playing on SC2mafia and also irl. But I've been lurking on the TL Mafia forum for a while (so I know your meta kush^^) and I decided to join this newbie game. I'm also a French guy and I live in Korea so my english is not on top and it's going to ne difficult for me to be around at deadline (5.00 am KST). Lurker policy From the games I've seen, unless you have a golden scumslip on d1, it's very difficult to lynch a scum the very first day. So I have no problem ending up voting for the most suspicious lurker at the end of the day. I define most suspicious lurker as a semi-lurker just trying to blend in. Day Plan I don't think to be able to be around for the first deadline so I would like to propose a day plan to secure a lynch as we are using a majority vote. First 24 hours to find lynch candidates while scumhunting and next 20 hours to decide who is the scummiest. Last 4 hours to consolidate the vote or switch to a lurker. Please discuss Notice how you are just repeating points? It isn't helpful to us. Next post On September 28 2012 11:09 Djodref wrote: @Kush Was it also a joke ? How can you be so sure you are not going to be NKed ? A two sentence, two question post. I don't like these. They are worthless. Also, this question came quite a bit later after darthpunk already was asking questions about joking. You seem to be sheeping onto darth's case against kush. On September 28 2012 11:53 Djodref wrote: Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 11:22 kushm4sta wrote: Because the most active townie is tunneling me? I would also like to hear you explanations about this specific part. I don't have a read on Darth on the moment considering he has only been hard tunneling you. As you said yourself you have a scummy meta so you are an easy target for early game to put pressure on. So what makes him so much town ? Yet again, this post is just repeating what darth is saying. Another question. I don't like this. Your early posts are indicative of a semi-active scum. Sheeping, question posts, and rehashing things already said multiple times. this one makes me a suspicious poster + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 01:55 debears wrote: @Djoref Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 15:22 Djodref wrote: @DarthPunk For your information, i consider the comments of debears on my posts legitimate. Let me say that I even don't like them. Currently reading the guides and older game analysis. Please pm marv for help. The coaches are great And this one makes me a newbie town That's why I want him to clarify his opinions of me | ||
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On September 29 2012 15:21 debears wrote: @djo What parts of his case specifically do you believe? His main case against me is contradiction. Look at my case against thrawn in the last game. What was the main point of that argument? Inconsistency. Its an easy point for scum to point out. There are two possibilities for kushvin my eyes 1) a mafiab tryingbto pity his way out off a lynch 2) a townie acting likeva total noob with accusations against him. Which has less assumptions? Number 1. My problen with the scum by associstion is the case that i was defendung kush earky on. That us false i was trying ti communicate ti darth that his reasoning wad based off such a strong s assumption early in the game. In fact, I'd say that z-bosons case against me is the same. He looks at the mafia side only, which to me is a indicator of mafia. I can't make a case dur to drinking and being on my phone. My read in you is that you are sheeping onto cases. I don't like it because i did the same. Why do you think i would refer you to a coach? What are the townie and mafia motivations behind it. @z-boson The same question stated the line above refers to you Also can you explain what you mean exactly by saying Z-BosoN "looks at the mafia side only" ? I honestly didn't understand the bolded part of your post. | ||
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I also voted for Kush for your information | ||
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I'm going out tonight again so I'll see you all after kush flips red ^^ I might check the thread drunken and all when I come back but it should be after the deadline so don't expect me to change my vote anymore. See ya ! | ||
Djodref
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I'm not heading to my room drunken once again and I feel really happy about kush's flip. I would like people to focus more on corrosion than debears because corrosion tired to cast a scummy shadow on Darth while deabears looks more genuine. Game is not over yet but I have to say GG | ||
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I understand why I'm on your null read list so far but I'd like to point out something to you and everybody. Here is the post where Kush has made his scumslip. + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 11:22 kushm4sta wrote: should not have looked at thread again now I have to respond... @debears yeah it's like exactly the same as last game. That's because I think up my first post almost word for word before I even get my roll pm. I did not get to follow through with it last game though since I rolled scum. Also sorry for the semiflame war. It was not that bad. Also he started it. Aside from that, I think the plan to start tunneling during the second half of the day is really bad. It helped us a lot last game as scum because we had an excuse not to vote for the people we were fosing. Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 11:09 Djodref wrote: @Kush thank you now I won't be nk Was it also a joke ? How can you be so sure you are not going to be NKed ? Because the most active townie is tunneling me? Obviously I'm not going to be nk. And yes it was a joke but the best jokes have truth to them. It is a joke in that it's purpose was to be funny since obviously it doesn't help the scumhunt or my defense. I'm actually proud of this one because he did it while answering one of my questions ^^ I think I deserve some town credit for that one even if I did buy kush's explanations about this slip later on. @Omniscient Given my state right now, I'm just expressing my gut's feelings about debears and corrosion. I already have my FoS on corrosion and I'm going to read their filters really carefully when I wake up. Please also refer to my post about my scumteam guess + Show Spoiler + [QUOTE]On September 29 2012 13:50 Djodref wrote: @DarthPunk Considering my backflip on Kush, the general feeling I got from his latest posts is that he is not going to help the town in any way. At least we should get rid of him for a better town atmosphere. But I also think he is scum after all At first I accepted his slip because his meta is to be careless as town. Also he did provide some explanation for it (it was light but could have been genuine). After this, two things changed my mind. Firstly SDM convinced me this was a real scumslip with this post + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 05:05 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: Making a Kush case at this point is kind of like trying to kick in an open door. Like Alsn I was thinking even before the game started how to handle Kush. People say he has a scummy meta and I guess that's true to an extent, but there are certainly some significant differences. Some of those things were pointed out by Hapa in the XXVII aftermath, advice Kush seemed to just shrug off (eh, he kind of went OMGUS on Hapa). Hapa points out the difference in how Kush defends himself when he's town, here's his defense against drazak's case in XXVI (as town): + Show Spoiler + On September 05 2012 13:25 kushm4sta wrote: Show nested quote + On September 05 2012 11:55 drazak wrote: On September 04 2012 03:01 kushm4sta wrote: Why town should all vote for cuba Worst case scenario:he flips green No big deal, we lynched the worst townie (barring WeeTee whose behavior fits his meta like a glove, and kville who is being replaced). From his posts it's clear he has no intention of contributing more than he is already, which is nothing. Plus that would give thrawn some serious town points in my book, since he refuses to vote for him. Thrawn is good for town atmosphere and very active. It would be quite useful to our scumhunt if we could trust thrawn. Best case scenario: he is mafia If Cuba is mafia, I think there is a very high chance that thrawn is also mafia. In which case we will know 2 mafia first day and basically win the game. People who are specifically against lynching cuba: cuba, thrawn. People who have voted for or accused drazak: cuba, thrawn. Twice now thrawn has attempted to redirect the lynch vote away from cuba onto somebody else. Thrawn says he won't vote for cuba because unlike stutters, cuba has participated in the scumhunt. By scumhunt you mean his failed attempt to bandwagon drazak with you? We need three more votes on cuba. I'm bringing this post, and Kushm4sta into suspiscion. It seemed like you didn't actually think Cubu was mafia. Your reasoning (and lack there of) makes it clear that you weren't voting because you thought Cubu was mafia, but because you thought there was a slim chance of it and that then Thrawn would be a townie. T I think you might be mafia trying to lead town into bad lynches. Why would you vote people who you don't think are mafia if you're town? I think you're mafia, Kush. ##Vote Kushm4sta I pushed the cubu vote because 1)he was a bad poster/lurker and it worked as a policy lynch if nothing else 2)how he turned revealed a lot about thrawn, who i assumed medic or jb would save because he was the obvious choice in my mind I thought it was very fishy that thrawn tried to redirect twice, and so I got very excited with the prospect of identifying two mafia in the first day. Also at the time I thought, as did thrawn, that kville was going to be replaced. So that's why I called him the worst townie. Now it's clear that honor belongs to kville. Also jacob I don't get how this is a good argument? It's reasoning is only one sentence: Show nested quote + Your reasoning (and lack there of) makes it clear that you weren't voting because you thought Cubu was mafia, but because you thought there was a slim chance of it and that then Thrawn would be a townie. I think he means that then thrawn would be mafia, but right now that sentence, which is his ONLY argumentation, makes no sense. I didn't think anyone else seemed more scumlike than he did. Although I did know that was a big chance of him not being scum. See, drazzy darling, when there are a ton of lurkers/terrible townies in the game like yourself, it makes it pretty fucking hard to win as town. And my last defense of myself is to invoke the holy name of the late thrawn, who, on the night of his untimely death, proclaimed me as his biggest town read. Read his defense of me because I'm sure it's better than anything I could do. REST IN PEACE THRAWN TT Not to OMGUS, but this actually makes drazak seem quite suspicious to me. Mostly because I am the most active poster now that thrawn is gone. Maybe I'm biased about the matter but what do other people think? I will look through his filter more tomorrow. Kush tends to OMGUS whether scum or town, but the way in which he OMGUS differs. When scum he's confident and aggressive, when town he's more diplomatic and logical. In this game, the former certainly holds true. Other than that, town Kush seems to focus scum hunting (check his early XXVI filter) while scum Kush is focusing on defending himself and posting tons of fluff (he even mentioned in the XXVII Mafia QT that his strategy was to post a shit ton). In this game his scum hunting is pretty much non-existent while he's been defending himself and posting fluff just like in XXVII. The most significant piece of information in this game though is his scum slip and his explanation. The slip is significant. I have a really hard time believing that the mother of all OMGUSing would be calling his attacker townie. Unless, of course, he's in possession of extra information and it's a slip. His defense isn't very convincing. Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 20:12 kushm4sta wrote: 2. My supposed scumslip: huh? What else should I have called you? Player? Person? Maybe but to me those things sound awkward. Townie just seemed like the most non awkward word to use. Innocent until proven guilty. That's how we do it in America bro. Of course he's been using "people" and "person" a lot in past games, but this post from XXVII is a good example on how he views his attackers: Show nested quote + On September 18 2012 20:27 kushm4sta wrote: what I said about flame wars.. that is what I did in the last two previous games. for instance drazak accused me really hard and I basically just called him a bad player again and again. I am trying to avoid that this game though. I really hate waking up to people fosing me...feels bad It's also worth pointing out that drazak attacking him made Kush suspicious of drazak (post quoted above), he did the complete opposite of making a town read on him. Secondly the two calls from kush to debears are disturbing me + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 07:44 kushm4sta wrote: debears I saved you bro...scumteam 4 lyfe I know he was being sarcastic and referring to a previous game but this is absolutely anti-town in my eyes. It's just confusing me and giving me a WIFOM headache and I don't need it with all the bad whiskey I drunk yesterday. He did apologize for his behavior later on but he's doing it again here. + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 12:14 kushm4sta wrote: debears hf you are dying next. So I'm calling a kush/debears/corrosion scumteam rightnow. But honestly it would be lame if it was the case... In my point of view, it would be really really lame if debears was scum right now. I would hate kush for gamethrowing and be very disappointed for my first game on TL Mafia forum. So my hope for debears to be town is really strong and cloud my judgement on him. Also I would like to remind everybody that I put FoS on corrosion. Please remind this if I'm NKed tonight. So once again ##FoS: corrosion | ||
Djodref
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Djodref
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On September 30 2012 10:23 DarthPunk wrote: Can anyone guess who my 3 suspects are? GOGO. I think Alsn, RemedySC and Stutters | ||
Djodref
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I understand your suspicions but I'm just a town newbie with a lot of bad posts. I'll try my best to step up and post cases. If you don't mind, I'm going to build a case on debears before addressing your attacks because I feel I might screwing up myself more if I spend too much time defending your cases against me. But I can shortly explain my backflip on Kush. At the beginning of the game, I was not confident at all to nail a scum on day 1. I have even been called for it but, as a newbie, I didn't think I could have a correct read on someone (be it town or scum) and was really afraid of a mislynch. So, at that time, when Darth found Kush scumslip, I was not ready to believe it was so easy to find a scum. That's why I bought kush's explanations for his scumslip. After that I went out and slept and when I came back to the thread I found all the crazy posts from kush and also SDM case. I realized at this point that the slip was indeed a scum slip. Also I realized that not being confident is bad for town so I boost up my confidence. I called the scumteam kush/debears/corrosion and also was more and more sure of kush being red. | ||
Djodref
France3332 Posts
On September 29 2012 01:55 debears wrote: @Djoref Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 15:22 Djodref wrote: @DarthPunk For your information, i consider the comments of debears on my posts legitimate. Let me say that I even don't like them. Currently reading the guides and older game analysis. Please pm marv for help. The coaches are great I know this point not new and debears has already addressed it but I would like to point out the way he addressed it. First this slip might not be as evident as Kush's one but it is one nevertheless. The same way kush knew Darth was town, debears also know I'm town is because he is mafia ! For the people suspecting me, please consider this post written by a town Djodref ^^ Debears didn't write "Get some help from the coaches !", he wrote me to get help from the town coach because he knows I am town. Now please have a look on how he answered me when Omniscient asked him about it + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 03:28 debears wrote: @Omniscient Show nested quote + On September 29 2012 02:17 Omniscient4983 wrote: On September 29 2012 01:55 debears wrote: @Djoref On September 28 2012 15:22 Djodref wrote: @DarthPunk For your information, i consider the comments of debears on my posts legitimate. Let me say that I even don't like them. Currently reading the guides and older game analysis. Please pm marv for help. The coaches are great So you're confirming him town? No. I am trying to help a newbie get into the swing of things. Last game, there was a large portion of lurkers, and it destroyed the game atmosphere. If he gets help and posts more quality, we have a much better read on him. He denies it right away and gives a town motivation for his post. But then he starts talking about lurkers. I think lurkers and newbies are two different things and he was trying to divert everybody with this line. After that I give my guess on a kush/debears/corrosion scumteam and call him a scum by association in the light of Z-BosoN case against him. Here is his answer to my post. By the way, I asked him at this time what was his read on me but I should have ask directly "how do you know I am town?" + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 15:21 debears wrote: @djo What parts of his case specifically do you believe? His main case against me is contradiction. Look at my case against thrawn in the last game. What was the main point of that argument? Inconsistency. Its an easy point for scum to point out. There are two possibilities for kushvin my eyes 1) a mafiab tryingbto pity his way out off a lynch 2) a townie acting likeva total noob with accusations against him. Which has less assumptions? Number 1. My problen with the scum by associstion is the case that i was defendung kush earky on. That us false i was trying ti communicate ti darth that his reasoning wad based off such a strong s assumption early in the game. In fact, I'd say that z-bosons case against me is the same. He looks at the mafia side only, which to me is a indicator of mafia. I can't make a case dur to drinking and being on my phone. My read in you is that you are sheeping onto cases. I don't like it because i did the same. Why do you think i would refer you to a coach? What are the townie and mafia motivations behind it. @z-boson The same question stated the line above refers to you He doesn't want to give a clear answer on his read about me. What does it mean that I'm sheeping onto cases ? I think it was too dangerous for him to pronounce himself about my alignment due to his previous slip. I asked him why he directed me to marv and answer by a question because he cannot afford to be transparent on this subject. I would like to add one more thing but it's non-related to the scumslip. [QUOTE]On September 29 2012 13:47 debears wrote: @darthpunk Currently, you should know one of my suspects based on a heated discussion btw him and me. The other i am waiting for a few more posts to give him a fair opportunity. The second one is a wildcard. Tomorrow i will build a casebfor him when I'm at my computer and in a better ba situation to make a suitable case In this post, he promises a case which has never come. I don't think it's big but it adds up. Also he is basically OMGUSing Z-BosoN while defending himself from his case. Conclusion I'm also for a debears lynch for tomorrow | ||
Djodref
France3332 Posts
Here is a post where our great mafia player Kush defends debears from to case of Z-BosoN + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 05:46 kushm4sta wrote: Show nested quote + On September 29 2012 05:29 Z-BosoN wrote: All right, I went through debears filter now, and I'm confident he is scum. Let's go through this more carefully now. His first post: On September 28 2012 11:05 debears wrote: Lol. Kush already going at it. Hey guys. I'm debears. This is my second game ever of mafia. I have a couple of things to add: + Show Spoiler + Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 09:18 DarthPunk wrote: On September 28 2012 09:10 Z-BosoN wrote: On September 28 2012 08:43 DarthPunk wrote: It is not impossible to find scum on the first day. Policy lynches get you no info, you are most likely going to hit a townie, and you end up in the same position the next day minus 2 town. @Djodref your 'day plan' is unnecessary. Scum hunt, vote for your top scum read and everything else will fall into place. After LVII I'm rather liking the idea of policy lynches, in extreme cases. Killing lurkers in a lurker-infested town, for example, is something I'm inclined to agree on. If the town proves itself active, then whoever proves himself scummier will occupy the noose. Given that this is a newbie game, scums are generally more scared to post. While that is a general tendency, I don't agree with mass posters being cleared right off the bat, even if their posts seem meaningful. What I suggest in this game, is that people read. From my few games, much time is usually wasted discussing things that have not been read properly. On September 28 2012 06:56 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: Cool, we're on. Pretty bad timing though, I'm off to bed and then I've got a day at uni before I can really start posting. I hope to God when I get back we've moved past the lurker policy discussion. My message to newbies: the best way for you to clear yourself is to post a lot. Don't post just for the sake of posting though, that'll make you look like scum because posting for the sake of posting is what scum do. This is a rather useless post. Newbie towns want to scumhunt. Newbie scum want to look like they are scumhunting. That =/= posting a lot but not for the sake of posting, or whatever you meant. And please tell me, what do you mean? You say you hope to have moved past the lurker discussion, and yet you are telling people to post a lot? In my eyes you are telling people not to lurk because that will make them seem scummy. It seems to me that you are indirectly stating your views on lurkers despite openly saying you don't want to talk about them. Meh. Don't like lurker policy lynches at all. It just tells scum: Post. and your safe. I have read every post so far as scummy and I don't see SDM's post as more or less scummy than the others. But posting a lot will let people get a good read on you so you should 100% be doing this as town. And then if all the townies are posting you force scum to. Which makes it much easier to nab them also. SO. Post a lot if you are town. You make scum uncomfortable and facilitate town reads on yourself and scum reads on scum. You also clutter the thread if you just post alot. Let me specify. Post quality as often as you can. That means reread the thread and build good cases. One liners don't do much good. Cases with multiple quotes and a few sentences of explanation per quote are good (most of the time). Also, USE YOUR COACHES TOWN. Thrawn pmed Hapa over 50 times last game and he had the best town performance. That isn't a coincidence. @Kush I don't like the way you are starting off this game kush. It's eerily similar as last game when you were mafia. You mention you're deathless streak, nk, and your scummy meta without anyone bringing it up. You should know that I most likely know you're trends better than anyone else in this game. The only difference between this game and last is that you have engaged in a flame war with Darth this game, which is unhelpful to our town. FOS Kush @everyone One more thing: Feel free to accuse and build cases on anyone you want for the first 24 hours. However, let's start tunneling for the second 24 hours. Also, I would like everyone to start considering a lurker (in your head) once we hit the second 24 hours as a backup. If we get close to the lynch deadline, and there are no scummy candidates, feel free to post a good case on which lurker would be the best candidate. First of all, his "I want town to win!!" post telling town to use their coaches. He then FoS's Kush, due to the fact that he's playing a similar game as the one he was scum. He says that DP + kush flame war is bad for the town, but doesn't attack Darthpunk, probably because he finds kush to be more scummy looking. Now, from a townie perspective, what does debear want? Information in order to lynch kush, as he pointed a FOS mostly based on a meta read. But suddenly, towards darthpunk: snip --You could also say that you are too convinced in your reasons. What I am cautious of at this point is that you stated directly before the game that you were after kush if he plays like he has in his past 3 games. I feel like that may be clouding your judgement in this situation. Our main goal is to lynch mafia. Yes, kush has said some scummy things. However, I'm not gonna go around parading this early saying "kush is scum. Kush is scum. OMFG". Also, let the man defend himself instead of trying to rally everyone active behind your cause so early. If he is scummy, the votes will come. He is defensive towards kush. That's not how townies think. While I agree that DP is a bit overboard on kush, I don't agree that he failed to give arguments as to why he thinks that is so. A townie with a FOS on someone will want to deal with the arguments first. He doesn't do that, and suddenly becomes defensive on Kush. He says, later: I'm not defending him as much as I'm trying to tell you that you are going overboard right now. You don't have to rush in annointing him scum. He is more bothered by DPs certainty than by his actual arguments. Inconsistency #1. He then comes up with two cases. One against me, and one against Djoref: @Boson + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 09:10 Z-BosoN wrote: Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 08:43 DarthPunk wrote: It is not impossible to find scum on the first day. Policy lynches get you no info, you are most likely going to hit a townie, and you end up in the same position the next day minus 2 town. @Djodref your 'day plan' is unnecessary. Scum hunt, vote for your top scum read and everything else will fall into place. After LVII I'm rather liking the idea of policy lynches, in extreme cases. Killing lurkers in a lurker-infested town, for example, is something I'm inclined to agree on. If the town proves itself active, then whoever proves himself scummier will occupy the noose. Given that this is a newbie game, scums are generally more scared to post. While that is a general tendency, I don't agree with mass posters being cleared right off the bat, even if their posts seem meaningful. What I suggest in this game, is that people read. From my few games, much time is usually wasted discussing things that have not been read properly. Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 06:56 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: Cool, we're on. Pretty bad timing though, I'm off to bed and then I've got a day at uni before I can really start posting. I hope to God when I get back we've moved past the lurker policy discussion. My message to newbies: the best way for you to clear yourself is to post a lot. Don't post just for the sake of posting though, that'll make you look like scum because posting for the sake of posting is what scum do. This is a rather useless post. Newbie towns want to scumhunt. Newbie scum want to look like they are scumhunting. That =/= posting a lot but not for the sake of posting, or whatever you meant. And please tell me, what do you mean? You say you hope to have moved past the lurker discussion, and yet you are telling people to post a lot? In my eyes you are telling people not to lurk because that will make them seem scummy. It seems to me that you are indirectly stating your views on lurkers despite openly saying you don't want to talk about them. Boson, please try not to read too hard into a person's very first posts and make something out of nothing. It is pretty clear what sonic was saying. He wants newbies to post so that they don't get grouped under the lurker corral that usually follows up later. Last game, we had lurkers galore and it really messed up the town. Also, you mention that his post is useless. Now I will examine your two other posts in terms of uselessness. On September 28 2012 09:12 Z-BosoN wrote: Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 09:01 kushm4sta wrote: On September 28 2012 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: On September 28 2012 06:58 kushm4sta wrote: @sonic getting everyone's thoughts on lurker policy is important. Don't argue about it but share your views on the matter please.. No it's not. It is simply a mechanism to get the discussion going and allows scum to seem to participate and to potentially mislynch an inactive townie. Any more talk of policy will get you FoS'd. Sorry but who appointed this asshole boss? you get people's thoughts on lurker policy, so you can catch them deviating from it later and question them about it. And why are you that scared of a FOS? A one-liner. A question that really doesn't accomplish anything. In other words, a useless post. Also, your next post doesn't address his response although he responded right after and you posted within 30 minutes of his response in a pretty light thread. On September 28 2012 09:43 Z-BosoN wrote: @DP Saying we will lynch lurkers is one thing. Deciding whether a lurker should die later at day two is another. What I said is I'm inclined to lynch a lurker if there aren't better choices, not that we will 100% lynch a lurker. @Stutters I'd like to see more posts from you. In XXIV you showed you were capable of making decent posts as town, so I encourage you to post eve more here. @kush What's your view on darthpunk? You said you don't like his coldness, but you don't like it in a "he's scum" sort of way? Yet again, nothing of substance here. You go more in depth about semantics (is that the right word I'm looking for?) about lynching lurkers and lynching lurkers at day two. Second, you call out stutters, who has already been warned by others and most likely the mods for no reason this early in the game. Finally, two sentences, two questions going on about the exact wording of kush's statements. It sounded like before the game you had stated that you have played in multiple games. Is that true? For someone who is telling other people to not post useless posts, you aren't doing a good job of it yourself. Looks more like you are trying to just be active while off the radar. In other words, you are a semi-active lurker who has bad post quality. Sounds like characteristics of a certain alignment. @Djoref + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 08:51 Djodref wrote: @Darthpunk Nevermind you look just more confident to get a scum on D1 than me. Regarding my plan, I think we need general directions to follow because of the majority lynch. It is a way to gather everybody around 2-3 suspicious players and secure a lynch. I'm assuming everyone agree on a no-lynch to be stupid. Djoref, I don't like that statement at all. That's the second post you bring up about the likelihood of lynching a townie d1. As town, you should never have that mentality. I would probably less likely to bring this up if you were a total nooby. However, you said you "know Kush's meta" which means you have some decent understanding of the game for a noob. By saying this, it seems that you are setting yourself an excuse to be indecisive later in the day when the lynch voting comes around. Alone, it isn't much. However, your other posts don't help. On September 28 2012 08:44 Djodref wrote: @Darthpunk Considering that we are likely to lynch a town on D1, don't you think it's a lesser wrong to get rid of someone inactive ? Inactivity means no scumhunt and room to hide for the mafia... After playing mafia last game, I feel like heavy lurking is a bad play for mafia. It puts too much pressure on you are as a scum. Instead, posting lightly without much substance is more mafia indicative. Yet again, I feel you are just looking like you are contributing without saying much. Especially when you already covered your thoughts in a previous post. On September 28 2012 08:36 Djodref wrote: Hello everybody ! About me This is my first game ever on forum but I've been playing on SC2mafia and also irl. But I've been lurking on the TL Mafia forum for a while (so I know your meta kush^^) and I decided to join this newbie game. I'm also a French guy and I live in Korea so my english is not on top and it's going to ne difficult for me to be around at deadline (5.00 am KST). Lurker policy From the games I've seen, unless you have a golden scumslip on d1, it's very difficult to lynch a scum the very first day. So I have no problem ending up voting for the most suspicious lurker at the end of the day. I define most suspicious lurker as a semi-lurker just trying to blend in. Day Plan I don't think to be able to be around for the first deadline so I would like to propose a day plan to secure a lynch as we are using a majority vote. First 24 hours to find lynch candidates while scumhunting and next 20 hours to decide who is the scummiest. Last 4 hours to consolidate the vote or switch to a lurker. Please discuss Notice how you are just repeating points? It isn't helpful to us. Next post On September 28 2012 11:09 Djodref wrote: @Kush Was it also a joke ? How can you be so sure you are not going to be NKed ? A two sentence, two question post. I don't like these. They are worthless. Also, this question came quite a bit later after darthpunk already was asking questions about joking. You seem to be sheeping onto darth's case against kush. On September 28 2012 11:53 Djodref wrote: Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 11:22 kushm4sta wrote: Because the most active townie is tunneling me? I would also like to hear you explanations about this specific part. I don't have a read on Darth on the moment considering he has only been hard tunneling you. As you said yourself you have a scummy meta so you are an easy target for early game to put pressure on. So what makes him so much town ? Yet again, this post is just repeating what darth is saying. Another question. I don't like this. Your early posts are indicative of a semi-active scum. Sheeping, question posts, and rehashing things already said multiple times. Notice the similarity between the two. He attacks us for asking questions (later on denies that they provide any discussion whatsoever), and falls into the same "semi-active lurker" category he's sniffing about. I will ignore the quality of his arguments, which I personally think are horrible, and will look more towards their similarity. From his case against me: A one-liner. A question that really doesn't accomplish anything. In other words, a useless post. Also, your next post doesn't address his response although he responded right after and you posted within 30 minutes of his response in a pretty light thread. For someone who is telling other people to not post useless posts, you aren't doing a good job of it yourself. Looks more like you are trying to just be active while off the radar. In other words, you are a semi-active lurker who has bad post quality. Sounds like characteristics of a certain alignment. From his case against Djoref: A two sentence, two question post. I don't like these. They are worthless. Also, this question came quite a bit later after darthpunk already was asking questions about joking. You seem to be sheeping onto darth's case against kush. Your early posts are indicative of a semi-active scum. Sheeping, question posts, and rehashing things already said multiple times. See the similarity, especially the bolded part? It seems that he has this "semi-active scum" cake recipe that he is using to sniff out scum. He also calls us out on our posting quality, in my case saying it is bad. I won't address his next post towards me because I've already done so, and because it doesn't increase his scumminess , as "bad cases =/= scum" (although it pisses me off). Anyways, now to the main stuff. He has a case against me and Djoref, for pretty much the same reasoning. Yet, check out what his next post on Djoref is: On September 29 2012 01:55 debears wrote: @Djoref On September 28 2012 15:22 Djodref wrote: @DarthPunk For your information, i consider the comments of debears on my posts legitimate. Let me say that I even don't like them. Currently reading the guides and older game analysis. Please pm marv for help. The coaches are great Wtf??? What ?? Where is his case against Djoref?? He goes from a scummy-looking sheep with one liners to a "townie who should pm marv for help"? Could he have forgotten that Djoref was one of his main suspicions? Inconsistency #2 Note that I no longer think that his defense of SDM is scummy. I've gone over that a few times and I admit that it can also come from a townie perspective. To summarize, here are the main inconsistencies in his play that scream to me SCUM: 1) He had a FOS on kush, then hurried on to defend him, in the manner I've shown above. I cannot fathom for the life of me having a FOS on someone and suddenly feel like I have to address an exaggeration on that person before I actually address the case. 2) He completely absolves Djoref for absolutely no reason. Townies do not throw around suspicions only to insta-drop them. 3) The other supporting arguments I've shown above. debears is SCUM! ##vote debears Hi z bozon. Inconsistencies do not make someone scum. Also it's quite funny how you are so certain this early in the game. To summarize this awesome post: your case is not strong. you are overconfident in your scumread. This one speaks for itself. I believe Kush was still trying to play seriously at this time and tried to defend his scummate. But here are also these two horrible posts On September 29 2012 07:44 kushm4sta wrote: debears I saved you bro...scumteam 4 lyfe He did this one no so much after voting for himself so I guess he was in full troll mode at this point. He was still attacking Z-BosoN on his "stupid" case. I think he purely gamethrew by seeing two scums nailed so fast in this game. On September 29 2012 12:14 kushm4sta wrote: debears hf you are dying next. And this one just before admitting he was scum. Given kush character, I could imagine him giving his scum partner like this. I'll be sad if it turns out to be true they are just to much elements pointing into this direction. | ||
Djodref
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His case against Darth was poor but newbies have a lot of pressure to build original cases to establish their townieness. So I can see town motivation for it. He also admitted that the case could have been weak. Also he defended himself in an honest and clear way. So I understand now why people attacking him can be seen as suspicious. So far I know that debears and me have been on him. I think now that debears was hoping to push a mislynch on corrosion. unFoS: corrosion | ||
Djodref
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+ Show Spoiler + On September 30 2012 22:05 DarthPunk wrote: OK. So here are my top scum reads in order. Debears. His flip-flopping around the kush lynch FoS'ing kush then soft defending him and trying to downplay the lynch after that are cause for concern. I am almost sure that he is scum. And he should be the next lynch candidate. Please reference the excellent case on him made by Z - Boson. Djodref. More flip flopping around the kush lynch. He was far far FAR to ready to believe kushes weak as anythign explanation for his slip. Something which all the candidates on my list have in common. The thing that really gets me though are the following. I accepted kush's explanations because it was unbelievable for me to nail a scum by a scumslip this early in the game. If you look at my filter, you can see that I was believing that we were going to mislynch on day 1. So I had a confirmation bias (I wanted kush to be town so I was ready to buy anything) and wanted to avoid a mislynch. Very bad play from my part... Twice asking for a read on himself. This is something that I have the impulse to do as scum. (i don;t do it, but I would love to) If you are not being talked about you have no idea if what you are doing is working well. I.E. If you are behaving scummy or not. Probably not anything. But something that struck me as odd. I only asked debears about a read on myself. It was related to his scumslip. I wanted him to push him into slipping more by forcing him to say that I was town without any good explanations. That's why I asked him a clear read on myself, which he didn't give by the way. The second time he admits having a null read on me. Anyway I should have been more confident and asked him how he knew I was town Trying to take credit twice from the kush lynch. Despite being wishy-washy at best and soft defending him at worst. As I have said earlier. Town cred is exactly what you want from a bus. And here is an already scummy player, who has not really scum hunted been incredibly wishy-washy etc. wanting town cred from a lynch he not only did not push but opposed and soft defended. I've realized so far that my play is bad. But I want town to win and I want to have a part in this. So I'm proud of the little help I could give. It's true that I'm not the root cause for kush's slip but I think I provoked it somehow. Also I know it's better to establish my alignment by posting original cases. I failed at it for the moment but I'm going to improve. So my motivation is just to show people what makes me town. At least I try to be transparent in my actions. If you look at my backflip just after, I knew it would look weird but a lot of stuff happened in the thread while I was afk. So I quoted myself for it to be visible for everyone. And his vote post was a 180 degree backflip if I have ever seen one. Show nested quote + On September 29 2012 12:53 Djodref wrote: Here is my last statement about Kush... On September 28 2012 21:18 Djodref wrote: @corrosion I'm actually working in Korea so I don't enjoy so much free time . But a big national holiday is coming this week end so I should be able to participate to the thread and finish to read all the guides. @everyone This also means party time ! I'm currently headed to get drunk all night so you shouldn't be hearing from me until tomorrow 12.00 pm KST. Also I'm accepting Kush explanation for calling Darth a townie but it would be better for him to refrain calling someone a townie or a scum without explanations later on... I did accept his explanation at the time but I cannot let him off the hook for the posts where he said he didn't care about this game anymore. Also I really don't like the posts where he implies that debears is his scum partner. I don't see any pro-town motivation for such posts. That's why he's getting my vote now. ##Vote: kushm4sta Also a side note for the guys having trouble with my pseudo, you can call me Djo if you want Also there is a progression in his posting from kush may be town. To kush may be red to kush IS red. With no addition to the case or explanation. Show nested quote + On September 29 2012 20:11 Djodref wrote: Hey guys ! I'm going out tonight again so I'll see you all after kush flips red ^^ I might check the thread drunken and all when I come back but it should be after the deadline so don't expect me to change my vote anymore. I'm gaining confidence while playing this game. Also I'm reading the thread again and again. At that point, there was nothing to add on the case because it was obvious that kush was scum. By the way, DarthPunk also knew that kush was going to flip red but I agree that I should have given more explanations. See ya ! He [b]knows kush is going to flip red. Before the flip. And his previous posts were not even close to this sure. In fact. He was inclined to believe kush's weak excuses. He said maybe and might. Also read SDM's case on him. Third is Alsn. Soft defending Debears. Desperately trying to stop the kush lynch as hard as he could. Employer of WIFOM. Honestly Just look at Z- Boson's case against him. Town reads I have a probable town read on Z-Boson, and SDM. In no particular order. Z - Boson is playing to his town meta from everything I have seen so far. And SDM has been very helpful and has contributed a lot. It is only day one so take this with several grains of salt. But I thought I would put it out there in case I die. Anyway. Feel free to ask me questions etc. I have stopped grinding solo q for the day. So now I am much more motivated for mafia lol. I'll be glad to answer any questions from anyone | ||
Djodref
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Thank you for the advice ! I think my wording was poorly chosen. SDM, DarthPunk and maybe some other guys are now suspicious of me so I wanted these guys to look at this particular post while considering the possibility than I was town rather than the possibility that I was scum. In fact, this is what I did by checking the filter of corrosion. I read his twice with the two following assumptions :
His filter makes more sense with the second option, especially when I look at his latest posts. So I have a mild town-read on him. SDM and Darth are for me almost confirmed townies so I feel bad to have them both suspecting me. @debears Regarding my case on you, could you make some comments about your scumslip rather than the part where I was wrong ? Also why do you think kush made these stupid posts about you ? Why was he defending you ? | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On September 30 2012 20:29 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: After last night's post I've decide the lurker I found most suspicious is suspicious enough to call out. So far I've seen zero scum hunting from Djo. The best attempts I see are these two: + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 13:17 Djodref wrote: Hey, guys ! I would like to bring up something that struck me in the post of corrosion about Darth. I didn't like this post in general because it didn't match my interpretations of the early events between Kush and Darth but I understand that our views can differ. But looking back at corrosion filter, he's trying to find scummy motivation for Darth to give his links to his previous game. Check the bolded part in the spoiler. + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 04:29 corrosion wrote: I'm just going to address the "fight" between Darth and Kush. I'm going to focus on Darth for now. Looking more closely into Kush's contribution is something I think should be done well ahead of lynch time. I'm actually going to start by telling about some thoughts I had after reading my role PM. I was trying to figure out what players town should be focusing on. I had obsed NMMXXVII, and came to the conclusion that it might be reasonable to go after any player except Kush. I figured that Kush was going to make a lot of posts anyway, so I was thinking that we could get a good analysis of him without any early pressure. One of the first things Darth did was to antagonize Kush: + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 06:58 kushm4sta wrote: @sonic getting everyone's thoughts on lurker policy is important. Don't argue about it but share your views on the matter please.. No it's not. It is simply a mechanism to get the discussion going and allows scum to seem to participate and to potentially mislynch an inactive townie. Any more talk of policy will get you FoS'd. I'm thinking that this could easily be an attempt to start a fight that would result in derailing the thread. Kush responded the way I expected him to, and these two posters exchanged arguments back and forth. In the middle of this, Darth made a remark against lurkers, but quickly changed his focus back on Kush. Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 10:36 DarthPunk wrote: So is everyone just going to drop their welcome posts and then afk? I don't see why he should make this comment at this time, since it wasn't going to get looked at while there was a fight going on. Shortly afterwards, Kush makes his supposed scum slip. Darth jumps on it, and shortly afterwards he posts about his previous mafia games. I've watched the game where he played cop, and seen that he and Shady argued a lot on D1. So I was thinking that this seems to be Darth's town meta. But I also asked myself why he did post about his previous games at this point in time. Maybe this was all intentional. Suppose he suddenly remembered that game. He might not have wanted people to look at those games earlier, but now he realized that if he posted them he would be able to establish a town read on himself. I'm not sure if this is a strong case against Darth at the moment. I would like some input from the more experienced players here. If Kush hadn't made that slip, I think the derailing argument would have looked strong. Now it doesn't look so strong, because we've actually gotten new information. I'm not saying that I'm sure the scum slip is an actual slip, but if it is and it results in a succesful lynch, I think town got very lucky. Scum usually wouldn't slip in such an obvious manner. His cases against Debears and Alsn are something that might reveal useful information, but I've not studied them closely yet. I still think that Kush seems more suspicious when everything is taken into consideration but with all the focus that has been on him, I'm sure someone else can post a decent case on him before we need to consider our first lynch. But Darth was just answering a request from debears ! + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 11:39 debears wrote: As I said, I want a quick look at you first. Second, there isn't much more to add to what you said about it. It does give off the impression of extra information. I think corrosion was trying to cast scummy shadow on Darth to shift the focus on Kush. I did so by omitting/deforming some parts of the thread history. Also, he fits my definition of a semi-lurker trying to blend in. So, corrosion, until I got your explanations about this point, I got my eyes on you. ##FoS: corrosion Here he brings up a point that had been brought up by Darth already, basically adding nothing on your own. I realized that afterwards but I was looking into the corrosion's filter so I missed Darth point about it. That's why I'm now totally believing corrosion defense about it. We have made the same kind of mistake... + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 16:19 Djodref wrote: Also I don't understand you stances on my alignment. After your first case on me, I thought you were suspicious of me. Later on, you recommend me to pm marv for help. You certainly know that marv is the town coach. So did you just let go your suspicions and consider me as town newbie ? Your town motivation would be to help a fellow citizen but in this case why do you think I'm town ? Your mafia motivation would be budding me and show pro-town behavior (unfortunately while slipping). And I would like you to answer my questions clearly in the future and not throwing me a question back. Again, this is a completely ripping off an earlier argument by Boson, adding nothing new. Aside from those two attempts, he's keeping his post count relatively high while not posting anything of value. So yeah, I've encouraged newbies to post, but this is exactly what I call posting for the sake of posting. Adding nothing new and just getting along, and that's scummy. Further... Show nested quote + On September 30 2012 06:52 Djodref wrote: @Alsn I understand why I'm on your null read list so far but I'd like to point out something to you and everybody. Here is the post where Kush has made his scumslip. + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 11:22 kushm4sta wrote: should not have looked at thread again now I have to respond... @debears yeah it's like exactly the same as last game. That's because I think up my first post almost word for word before I even get my roll pm. I did not get to follow through with it last game though since I rolled scum. Also sorry for the semiflame war. It was not that bad. Also he started it. Aside from that, I think the plan to start tunneling during the second half of the day is really bad. It helped us a lot last game as scum because we had an excuse not to vote for the people we were fosing. Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 11:09 Djodref wrote: @Kush thank you now I won't be nk Was it also a joke ? How can you be so sure you are not going to be NKed ? Because the most active townie is tunneling me? Obviously I'm not going to be nk. And yes it was a joke but the best jokes have truth to them. It is a joke in that it's purpose was to be funny since obviously it doesn't help the scumhunt or my defense. I'm actually proud of this one because he did it while answering one of my questions ^^ I think I deserve some town credit for that one even if I did buy kush's explanations about this slip later on. This is not the first time you're trying to give yourself townie points for asking a question to Kush. Last time it was more thinly veiled but it still caught my attention: Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 15:00 Djodref wrote: Nevertheless, Kush slipped by answering my question about the NK. Asking Kush the question doesn't give you townie points. The thing with a scum slip is that it's obviously something which happens unintentionally, so if you were both scum it obviously wasn't planned anyway (or at least highly unlikely to have been). To be fair he did at least engage in the discussion, which can be seen as scum hunting, but not until Darth had aggresively called out Kush. What follows is this: It's one of the only thing I'm happy with my play until now except from my last case on debears. I wished it could give me town credit rather than looking suspicious But I totally get your point Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 13:27 Djodref wrote: It's a little illogical because you are saying that he looks scummy as town or as scum and yet you are able to make the difference between and scummy town Kush and a scummy scum Kush. I also read through the last Newbie Mini Mafia games and I must agree he didn't mention night kills so much when he was town iirc. I'm looking forward his explanations about his town read on you and I hope more people can give their opinion about your case on Kush. As I was also reading the game where you were mafia roleblocker and I saw your ability to flame with Shiaopi, I'm not buying it yet. Casting doubts on Darth's suspicion, downplaying it as a flame war. Even if Darth would be able to flame Kush as scum (he probably would), it's not the focus here, there are actually good arguments supporting the accusations. Actually I was really shocked by his absolute certitude about kush. As I already said, I wasn't confident at all early game and I couldn't not imagine a townie to be so sure of himself. I made the parallel with his play and flaming as roleblocker in his last game because of the confidence he showed also during the flaming. Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 15:00 Djodref wrote: @Everyone I'm going to take a stance on Kush when he explains why he thinks Darth to be town. Here he is keeping his options open, which is a convenient strategy in a pressured situation. Then actually buying into Kush's silly explanation: Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 21:18 Djodref wrote: Also I'm accepting Kush explanation for calling Darth a townie but it would be better for him to refrain calling someone a townie or a scum without explanations later on... Finally jumping the wagon with weak reasoning (later claiming my post helped pursaude him): When I woke up and looked at the thread it was then clear that kush was mafia. I did a poor job at explaining myself at the time but it's true that your post convinced me of the reality of the slip. I thank you for that Show nested quote + On September 29 2012 12:53 Djodref wrote: I did accept his explanation at the time but I cannot let him off the hook for the posts where he said he didn't care about this game anymore. Also I really don't like the posts where he implies that debears is his scum partner. I don't see any pro-town motivation for such posts. That's why he's getting my vote now. ##Vote: kushm4sta Also a side note for the guys having trouble with my pseudo, you can call me Djo if you want I realize this can be the result of him being a total newbie, but his posts are really unconvincing and worthy of suspicion. It pains me a little but this is exactly the result of me being a total newbie. I know I'm using this excuse way to much so I'll be posting cases from now on. Please let me improve ^^ ##FOS: Djodref | ||
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Well I would disagree about sheeping. Nobody so far has pointed out the defense you got from kush and the posts where he implies that you are his scumbuddy. So why do you think kush was defending you ? @everyone Before going to bed, I would like to state that my guess for the scumteam is now debears/alsn. I think Z-BosoN has the right of it. I'm asking for a vig shot on debears ! Also Remedy is too much of a lurker. I don't think we are going to encounter lylo or mylo situations in this game but I hope that we can get something of him before this... | ||
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It's good to get something from you ! Welcome back to town @debears Thanks for finally answering my questions about the way kush treated you in his post. You seemed very reluctant to do it. On October 01 2012 03:04 debears wrote: @Djo Show nested quote + On October 01 2012 02:09 Djodref wrote: @debears Well I would disagree about sheeping. Nobody so far has pointed out the defense you got from kush and the posts where he implies that you are his scumbuddy. So why do you think kush was defending you ? @everyone Before going to bed, I would like to state that my guess for the scumteam is now debears/alsn. I think Z-BosoN has the right of it. I'm asking for a vig shot on debears ! Also Remedy is too much of a lurker. I don't think we are going to encounter lylo or mylo situations in this game but I hope that we can get something of him before this... You have been sheeping. Look at SDM's case on you Show nested quote + On September 30 2012 22:03 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: And to clarify a couple of things about my case on Djo now that I'm up to date on the thread: 1. Latching on to others reads: As newbie scum it's really hard to make original cases. I had first hand experience Cubu and Imcasey in XXVI. The only case Imcasey could make was against our scum buddy Xatalos (that's quite easy because he knew he was scum). We had a similar situation with Debears in XXVII, at least in the beginning where the only case he could make was a defense of Thrawn, which is easy to do because he knew knew he was town (well, he flipped SK, but Debears couldn't know). 2. How can anyone buy into Kush's defense that easily? A newbie town is usually very suspcicious and it was a really silly defense, at the very best null. Using "player" and "people" sounds awkward? How isn't that an obvious lie? + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 20:12 kushm4sta wrote: 2. My supposed scumslip: huh? What else should I have called you? Player? Person? Maybe but to me those things sound awkward. Townie just seemed like the most non awkward word to use. Innocent until proven guilty. That's how we do it in America bro. As for the other lurkers, I don't find Remedy suspicious, rather the opposite although his post count is still low. Nothing really stuck out to me the same way Djo did when reading Omn's and Corrosion's filter. Also, the reason why no one is addressing kush's "scum for life" and "I saved you" posts to me is because the argument is pure WIFOM. Kush was scum. For that reason, we have to look at scum motivations 1) He was giving away his partner and throwing the game away. I believe he didn't give up on the game since he was mafia. Otherwise, he would most likely be punished for his actions in the game. Also, he is experienced. He isn't a dumb noob that would give up. He was willing to take the sack as scum last game when people started reading him as scum (although it never came to that). 2) He was attempting to set up someone who had "soft defended" him so that it would lead to a mislynch the next day.This point can be easily turned into WIFOM. Why would you believe the words of a confirmed scum? The purpose of mafia is to disrupt the the town and turn townies against each other. Number two fulfills that purpose. I agree that kush defending you can be turn into a WIFOM shitfest. But what I get from kush's meta is that he let his emotions speak anyway, regardless if he is town or mafia. I think that's the reason why DarthPunk nailed him so easily. I've been looking at kush's behavior through the thread and I found that it changes after Z-BosoN's case on you. Please look carefully at the time stamps + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 05:29 Z-BosoN wrote: This is the time when Z-BosoN strongly attacks debears and vote for him in the thread. All the following posts are from kush's filter. I think he was desparate to see the game lost for mafia so fast and started to flame and troll. On September 29 2012 05:46 kushm4sta wrote: Hi z bozon. Inconsistencies do not make someone scum. Also it's quite funny how you are so certain this early in the game. To summarize this awesome post: your case is not strong. you are overconfident in your scumread. Very first reaction to Z-BosoN's vote on debears On September 29 2012 05:52 kushm4sta wrote: hi stutters . its not that I don't give a fuck about this game. its that I don't give a fuck about not making "scumslips". what questions have I dodged? To need to ask me them with a.question mark apart from the rest of your text. The only question I see are what are other examples of savvy. I can't find them on my.phone. He fought with Alsn (allison?) though. Maybe you can look into that racquetball is lame. also you are.not excused cursing. Flaming stutters On September 29 2012 05:59 kushm4sta wrote: My.top scumread after darthpenguin: haven't given it.much thought. maybe djosef because he is playing the noobs.card pretty hard. and djo guy,.if you want people.to say your name right don't make it random letters please Attacking me because my name is weird ! (This one is a joke by the way) On September 29 2012 06:22 kushm4sta wrote: Show nested quote + On September 29 2012 06:17 Z-BosoN wrote: On September 29 2012 05:59 kushm4sta wrote: My.top scumread after darthpenguin: haven't given it.much thought. maybe djosef because he is playing the noobs.card pretty hard. and djo guy,.if you want people.to say your name right don't make it random letters please Then give it more thought. kush seems scummiest honestly ##vote kush The ice on the cake And one hour later On September 29 2012 07:44 kushm4sta wrote: debears I saved you bro...scumteam 4 lyfe He think he was still heated at that time. Also I think he got blamed for it because there is an apology post from him roughly one hour later again. On September 29 2012 08:58 kushm4sta wrote: i apologize btw Honestly I would feel better if it was a WIFOM trap but I don't think so. Kush directly discredited Z-BosoN when he voted for you and at a time when he wasn't totally derailing. I'm pretty sure that's what made him go ape shit. | ||
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##Vote: debears | ||
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Just a quick post from work. It looks like either Alsn or debears are going to be lynched today. I'm totally fine with that because they are actually my scumteam right now. I'd prefer a debears lynch because of my cases against him so my vote is on him right now but I guess we are going to end up lynching Alsn for the following reasons:
Also DarthPunk has made an early vote him so I'm pretty sure town is gonna sheep on him at the end. But please don't do this ! Try to come out with your own decisions Nevertheless, I might need to switch my vote to secure a lynch on Alsn. If so, I'm going to do it 5 hours before the deadline when I go to bed. Also I'm seriously promising you here a better post regarding why I suspect Alsn. Now regarding corrosion, I think he is the wagon mafia is going to try to push today so please take your time to read his filter twice (not so long ) with the following glasses:
And decide for yourself See ya ! PS: I'm hoping for Lesrah to catch up quickly | ||
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Probably at the end of N1, iirc. | ||
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On September 29 2012 07:44 kushm4sta wrote: debears I saved you bro...scumteam 4 lyfe Also I'd like to show everybody than this other one was a real scumslip after all On September 29 2012 01:55 debears wrote: @Djoref Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 15:22 Djodref wrote: @DarthPunk For your information, i consider the comments of debears on my posts legitimate. Let me say that I even don't like them. Currently reading the guides and older game analysis. Please pm marv for help. The coaches are great So if you feel like me, please vote debears ! Also I didn't have the time yet to follow in detail all the cases on Alsn. But the few I've seen is enough for me to vote for him to secure a lynch on him if needed. In this case, I promise again to give my explanations for the support of his lynch. Anyway it looks like we got them all already for me. And on a side note, I would like people to vote ASAP because I'm not going to be here for the lynch deadline so I can see if can stay on debears or not. Also is the modkill, if there is one, happening at the lynch deadline or at the end of D2 | ||
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On October 02 2012 19:48 DarthPunk wrote: Are you ok with an alsn lynch? @DarthPunk Was this question directed to me ? I think I have already made it clear that I was also ok with an Alsn lynch... Anyway I can't really develop here because I'm on evening shift but I'll be back in 5h to cast my final vote. I'll try to do some scumhunting also if I'm not too tired because I'm getting lazy in this thread. | ||
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I'm going to be posting soon. I'll try to convince you to vote for debears one last time | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + Here you can find how he defends his scumslip. My point is that he is very reluctant to acknowledge his reference to marv. But I guess you already have all your opinion about this one. On September 30 2012 23:46 Djodref wrote: Ok now concerning debears, I'm going to focus on one point : his scumslip ! Show nested quote + On September 29 2012 01:55 debears wrote: @Djoref On September 28 2012 15:22 Djodref wrote: @DarthPunk For your information, i consider the comments of debears on my posts legitimate. Let me say that I even don't like them. Currently reading the guides and older game analysis. Please pm marv for help. The coaches are great I know this point not new and debears has already addressed it but I would like to point out the way he addressed it. First this slip might not be as evident as Kush's one but it is one nevertheless. The same way kush knew Darth was town, debears also know I'm town is because he is mafia ! For the people suspecting me, please consider this post written by a town Djodref ^^ Debears didn't write "Get some help from the coaches !", he wrote me to get help from the town coach because he knows I am town. Now please have a look on how he answered me when Omniscient asked him about it + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 03:28 debears wrote: @Omniscient Show nested quote + On September 29 2012 02:17 Omniscient4983 wrote: On September 29 2012 01:55 debears wrote: @Djoref On September 28 2012 15:22 Djodref wrote: @DarthPunk For your information, i consider the comments of debears on my posts legitimate. Let me say that I even don't like them. Currently reading the guides and older game analysis. Please pm marv for help. The coaches are great So you're confirming him town? No. I am trying to help a newbie get into the swing of things. Last game, there was a large portion of lurkers, and it destroyed the game atmosphere. If he gets help and posts more quality, we have a much better read on him. He denies it right away and gives a town motivation for his post. But then he starts talking about lurkers. I think lurkers and newbies are two different things and he was trying to divert everybody with this line. After that I give my guess on a kush/debears/corrosion scumteam and call him a scum by association in the light of Z-BosoN case against him. Here is his answer to my post. By the way, I asked him at this time what was his read on me but I should have ask directly "how do you know I am town?" + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 15:21 debears wrote: @djo What parts of his case specifically do you believe? His main case against me is contradiction. Look at my case against thrawn in the last game. What was the main point of that argument? Inconsistency. Its an easy point for scum to point out. There are two possibilities for kushvin my eyes 1) a mafiab tryingbto pity his way out off a lynch 2) a townie acting likeva total noob with accusations against him. Which has less assumptions? Number 1. My problen with the scum by associstion is the case that i was defendung kush earky on. That us false i was trying ti communicate ti darth that his reasoning wad based off such a strong s assumption early in the game. In fact, I'd say that z-bosons case against me is the same. He looks at the mafia side only, which to me is a indicator of mafia. I can't make a case dur to drinking and being on my phone. My read in you is that you are sheeping onto cases. I don't like it because i did the same. Why do you think i would refer you to a coach? What are the townie and mafia motivations behind it. @z-boson The same question stated the line above refers to you He doesn't want to give a clear answer on his read about me. What does it mean that I'm sheeping onto cases ? I think it was too dangerous for him to pronounce himself about my alignment due to his previous slip. I asked him why he directed me to marv and answer by a question because he cannot afford to be transparent on this subject. Here is the part which I find the most interesting and which I'm going to develop even further. This is an analysis of kush's behavior regarding what is happening to debears in the thread. The most important post in my view is in the first spoiler of the next post On October 01 2012 00:03 Djodref wrote: I would like to add some digging I have been doing in kush's filter to add more material to my case on debears. Here is a post where our great mafia player Kush defends debears from to case of Z-BosoN + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 05:46 kushm4sta wrote: Show nested quote + On September 29 2012 05:29 Z-BosoN wrote: All right, I went through debears filter now, and I'm confident he is scum. Let's go through this more carefully now. His first post: On September 28 2012 11:05 debears wrote: Lol. Kush already going at it. Hey guys. I'm debears. This is my second game ever of mafia. I have a couple of things to add: + Show Spoiler + Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 09:18 DarthPunk wrote: On September 28 2012 09:10 Z-BosoN wrote: On September 28 2012 08:43 DarthPunk wrote: It is not impossible to find scum on the first day. Policy lynches get you no info, you are most likely going to hit a townie, and you end up in the same position the next day minus 2 town. @Djodref your 'day plan' is unnecessary. Scum hunt, vote for your top scum read and everything else will fall into place. After LVII I'm rather liking the idea of policy lynches, in extreme cases. Killing lurkers in a lurker-infested town, for example, is something I'm inclined to agree on. If the town proves itself active, then whoever proves himself scummier will occupy the noose. Given that this is a newbie game, scums are generally more scared to post. While that is a general tendency, I don't agree with mass posters being cleared right off the bat, even if their posts seem meaningful. What I suggest in this game, is that people read. From my few games, much time is usually wasted discussing things that have not been read properly. On September 28 2012 06:56 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: Cool, we're on. Pretty bad timing though, I'm off to bed and then I've got a day at uni before I can really start posting. I hope to God when I get back we've moved past the lurker policy discussion. My message to newbies: the best way for you to clear yourself is to post a lot. Don't post just for the sake of posting though, that'll make you look like scum because posting for the sake of posting is what scum do. This is a rather useless post. Newbie towns want to scumhunt. Newbie scum want to look like they are scumhunting. That =/= posting a lot but not for the sake of posting, or whatever you meant. And please tell me, what do you mean? You say you hope to have moved past the lurker discussion, and yet you are telling people to post a lot? In my eyes you are telling people not to lurk because that will make them seem scummy. It seems to me that you are indirectly stating your views on lurkers despite openly saying you don't want to talk about them. Meh. Don't like lurker policy lynches at all. It just tells scum: Post. and your safe. I have read every post so far as scummy and I don't see SDM's post as more or less scummy than the others. But posting a lot will let people get a good read on you so you should 100% be doing this as town. And then if all the townies are posting you force scum to. Which makes it much easier to nab them also. SO. Post a lot if you are town. You make scum uncomfortable and facilitate town reads on yourself and scum reads on scum. You also clutter the thread if you just post alot. Let me specify. Post quality as often as you can. That means reread the thread and build good cases. One liners don't do much good. Cases with multiple quotes and a few sentences of explanation per quote are good (most of the time). Also, USE YOUR COACHES TOWN. Thrawn pmed Hapa over 50 times last game and he had the best town performance. That isn't a coincidence. @Kush I don't like the way you are starting off this game kush. It's eerily similar as last game when you were mafia. You mention you're deathless streak, nk, and your scummy meta without anyone bringing it up. You should know that I most likely know you're trends better than anyone else in this game. The only difference between this game and last is that you have engaged in a flame war with Darth this game, which is unhelpful to our town. FOS Kush @everyone One more thing: Feel free to accuse and build cases on anyone you want for the first 24 hours. However, let's start tunneling for the second 24 hours. Also, I would like everyone to start considering a lurker (in your head) once we hit the second 24 hours as a backup. If we get close to the lynch deadline, and there are no scummy candidates, feel free to post a good case on which lurker would be the best candidate. First of all, his "I want town to win!!" post telling town to use their coaches. He then FoS's Kush, due to the fact that he's playing a similar game as the one he was scum. He says that DP + kush flame war is bad for the town, but doesn't attack Darthpunk, probably because he finds kush to be more scummy looking. Now, from a townie perspective, what does debear want? Information in order to lynch kush, as he pointed a FOS mostly based on a meta read. But suddenly, towards darthpunk: snip --You could also say that you are too convinced in your reasons. What I am cautious of at this point is that you stated directly before the game that you were after kush if he plays like he has in his past 3 games. I feel like that may be clouding your judgement in this situation. Our main goal is to lynch mafia. Yes, kush has said some scummy things. However, I'm not gonna go around parading this early saying "kush is scum. Kush is scum. OMFG". Also, let the man defend himself instead of trying to rally everyone active behind your cause so early. If he is scummy, the votes will come. He is defensive towards kush. That's not how townies think. While I agree that DP is a bit overboard on kush, I don't agree that he failed to give arguments as to why he thinks that is so. A townie with a FOS on someone will want to deal with the arguments first. He doesn't do that, and suddenly becomes defensive on Kush. He says, later: I'm not defending him as much as I'm trying to tell you that you are going overboard right now. You don't have to rush in annointing him scum. He is more bothered by DPs certainty than by his actual arguments. Inconsistency #1. He then comes up with two cases. One against me, and one against Djoref: @Boson + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 09:10 Z-BosoN wrote: Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 08:43 DarthPunk wrote: It is not impossible to find scum on the first day. Policy lynches get you no info, you are most likely going to hit a townie, and you end up in the same position the next day minus 2 town. @Djodref your 'day plan' is unnecessary. Scum hunt, vote for your top scum read and everything else will fall into place. After LVII I'm rather liking the idea of policy lynches, in extreme cases. Killing lurkers in a lurker-infested town, for example, is something I'm inclined to agree on. If the town proves itself active, then whoever proves himself scummier will occupy the noose. Given that this is a newbie game, scums are generally more scared to post. While that is a general tendency, I don't agree with mass posters being cleared right off the bat, even if their posts seem meaningful. What I suggest in this game, is that people read. From my few games, much time is usually wasted discussing things that have not been read properly. Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 06:56 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: Cool, we're on. Pretty bad timing though, I'm off to bed and then I've got a day at uni before I can really start posting. I hope to God when I get back we've moved past the lurker policy discussion. My message to newbies: the best way for you to clear yourself is to post a lot. Don't post just for the sake of posting though, that'll make you look like scum because posting for the sake of posting is what scum do. This is a rather useless post. Newbie towns want to scumhunt. Newbie scum want to look like they are scumhunting. That =/= posting a lot but not for the sake of posting, or whatever you meant. And please tell me, what do you mean? You say you hope to have moved past the lurker discussion, and yet you are telling people to post a lot? In my eyes you are telling people not to lurk because that will make them seem scummy. It seems to me that you are indirectly stating your views on lurkers despite openly saying you don't want to talk about them. Boson, please try not to read too hard into a person's very first posts and make something out of nothing. It is pretty clear what sonic was saying. He wants newbies to post so that they don't get grouped under the lurker corral that usually follows up later. Last game, we had lurkers galore and it really messed up the town. Also, you mention that his post is useless. Now I will examine your two other posts in terms of uselessness. On September 28 2012 09:12 Z-BosoN wrote: Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 09:01 kushm4sta wrote: On September 28 2012 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: On September 28 2012 06:58 kushm4sta wrote: @sonic getting everyone's thoughts on lurker policy is important. Don't argue about it but share your views on the matter please.. No it's not. It is simply a mechanism to get the discussion going and allows scum to seem to participate and to potentially mislynch an inactive townie. Any more talk of policy will get you FoS'd. Sorry but who appointed this asshole boss? you get people's thoughts on lurker policy, so you can catch them deviating from it later and question them about it. And why are you that scared of a FOS? A one-liner. A question that really doesn't accomplish anything. In other words, a useless post. Also, your next post doesn't address his response although he responded right after and you posted within 30 minutes of his response in a pretty light thread. On September 28 2012 09:43 Z-BosoN wrote: @DP Saying we will lynch lurkers is one thing. Deciding whether a lurker should die later at day two is another. What I said is I'm inclined to lynch a lurker if there aren't better choices, not that we will 100% lynch a lurker. @Stutters I'd like to see more posts from you. In XXIV you showed you were capable of making decent posts as town, so I encourage you to post eve more here. @kush What's your view on darthpunk? You said you don't like his coldness, but you don't like it in a "he's scum" sort of way? Yet again, nothing of substance here. You go more in depth about semantics (is that the right word I'm looking for?) about lynching lurkers and lynching lurkers at day two. Second, you call out stutters, who has already been warned by others and most likely the mods for no reason this early in the game. Finally, two sentences, two questions going on about the exact wording of kush's statements. It sounded like before the game you had stated that you have played in multiple games. Is that true? For someone who is telling other people to not post useless posts, you aren't doing a good job of it yourself. Looks more like you are trying to just be active while off the radar. In other words, you are a semi-active lurker who has bad post quality. Sounds like characteristics of a certain alignment. @Djoref + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 08:51 Djodref wrote: @Darthpunk Nevermind you look just more confident to get a scum on D1 than me. Regarding my plan, I think we need general directions to follow because of the majority lynch. It is a way to gather everybody around 2-3 suspicious players and secure a lynch. I'm assuming everyone agree on a no-lynch to be stupid. Djoref, I don't like that statement at all. That's the second post you bring up about the likelihood of lynching a townie d1. As town, you should never have that mentality. I would probably less likely to bring this up if you were a total nooby. However, you said you "know Kush's meta" which means you have some decent understanding of the game for a noob. By saying this, it seems that you are setting yourself an excuse to be indecisive later in the day when the lynch voting comes around. Alone, it isn't much. However, your other posts don't help. On September 28 2012 08:44 Djodref wrote: @Darthpunk Considering that we are likely to lynch a town on D1, don't you think it's a lesser wrong to get rid of someone inactive ? Inactivity means no scumhunt and room to hide for the mafia... After playing mafia last game, I feel like heavy lurking is a bad play for mafia. It puts too much pressure on you are as a scum. Instead, posting lightly without much substance is more mafia indicative. Yet again, I feel you are just looking like you are contributing without saying much. Especially when you already covered your thoughts in a previous post. On September 28 2012 08:36 Djodref wrote: Hello everybody ! About me This is my first game ever on forum but I've been playing on SC2mafia and also irl. But I've been lurking on the TL Mafia forum for a while (so I know your meta kush^^) and I decided to join this newbie game. I'm also a French guy and I live in Korea so my english is not on top and it's going to ne difficult for me to be around at deadline (5.00 am KST). Lurker policy From the games I've seen, unless you have a golden scumslip on d1, it's very difficult to lynch a scum the very first day. So I have no problem ending up voting for the most suspicious lurker at the end of the day. I define most suspicious lurker as a semi-lurker just trying to blend in. Day Plan I don't think to be able to be around for the first deadline so I would like to propose a day plan to secure a lynch as we are using a majority vote. First 24 hours to find lynch candidates while scumhunting and next 20 hours to decide who is the scummiest. Last 4 hours to consolidate the vote or switch to a lurker. Please discuss Notice how you are just repeating points? It isn't helpful to us. Next post On September 28 2012 11:09 Djodref wrote: @Kush Was it also a joke ? How can you be so sure you are not going to be NKed ? A two sentence, two question post. I don't like these. They are worthless. Also, this question came quite a bit later after darthpunk already was asking questions about joking. You seem to be sheeping onto darth's case against kush. On September 28 2012 11:53 Djodref wrote: Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 11:22 kushm4sta wrote: Because the most active townie is tunneling me? I would also like to hear you explanations about this specific part. I don't have a read on Darth on the moment considering he has only been hard tunneling you. As you said yourself you have a scummy meta so you are an easy target for early game to put pressure on. So what makes him so much town ? Yet again, this post is just repeating what darth is saying. Another question. I don't like this. Your early posts are indicative of a semi-active scum. Sheeping, question posts, and rehashing things already said multiple times. Notice the similarity between the two. He attacks us for asking questions (later on denies that they provide any discussion whatsoever), and falls into the same "semi-active lurker" category he's sniffing about. I will ignore the quality of his arguments, which I personally think are horrible, and will look more towards their similarity. From his case against me: A one-liner. A question that really doesn't accomplish anything. In other words, a useless post. Also, your next post doesn't address his response although he responded right after and you posted within 30 minutes of his response in a pretty light thread. For someone who is telling other people to not post useless posts, you aren't doing a good job of it yourself. Looks more like you are trying to just be active while off the radar. In other words, you are a semi-active lurker who has bad post quality. Sounds like characteristics of a certain alignment. From his case against Djoref: A two sentence, two question post. I don't like these. They are worthless. Also, this question came quite a bit later after darthpunk already was asking questions about joking. You seem to be sheeping onto darth's case against kush. Your early posts are indicative of a semi-active scum. Sheeping, question posts, and rehashing things already said multiple times. See the similarity, especially the bolded part? It seems that he has this "semi-active scum" cake recipe that he is using to sniff out scum. He also calls us out on our posting quality, in my case saying it is bad. I won't address his next post towards me because I've already done so, and because it doesn't increase his scumminess , as "bad cases =/= scum" (although it pisses me off). Anyways, now to the main stuff. He has a case against me and Djoref, for pretty much the same reasoning. Yet, check out what his next post on Djoref is: On September 29 2012 01:55 debears wrote: @Djoref On September 28 2012 15:22 Djodref wrote: @DarthPunk For your information, i consider the comments of debears on my posts legitimate. Let me say that I even don't like them. Currently reading the guides and older game analysis. Please pm marv for help. The coaches are great Wtf??? What ?? Where is his case against Djoref?? He goes from a scummy-looking sheep with one liners to a "townie who should pm marv for help"? Could he have forgotten that Djoref was one of his main suspicions? Inconsistency #2 Note that I no longer think that his defense of SDM is scummy. I've gone over that a few times and I admit that it can also come from a townie perspective. To summarize, here are the main inconsistencies in his play that scream to me SCUM: 1) He had a FOS on kush, then hurried on to defend him, in the manner I've shown above. I cannot fathom for the life of me having a FOS on someone and suddenly feel like I have to address an exaggeration on that person before I actually address the case. 2) He completely absolves Djoref for absolutely no reason. Townies do not throw around suspicions only to insta-drop them. 3) The other supporting arguments I've shown above. debears is SCUM! ##vote debears Hi z bozon. Inconsistencies do not make someone scum. Also it's quite funny how you are so certain this early in the game. To summarize this awesome post: your case is not strong. you are overconfident in your scumread. This one speaks for itself. I believe Kush was still trying to play seriously at this time and tried to defend his scummate. But here are also these two horrible posts Show nested quote + On September 29 2012 07:44 kushm4sta wrote: debears I saved you bro...scumteam 4 lyfe He did this one no so much after voting for himself so I guess he was in full troll mode at this point. He was still attacking Z-BosoN on his "stupid" case. I think he purely gamethrew by seeing two scums nailed so fast in this game. And this one just before admitting he was scum. Given kush character, I could imagine him giving his scum partner like this. I'll be sad if it turns out to be true they are just to much elements pointing into this direction. The two following posts are an attempt to understand the state of mind of kush before and while he blew up. I hope Z-BosoN doesn't mind me to borrow one of his posts. I think they really both go in the same way and they really make a lot of sense to me. On October 01 2012 10:03 Djodref wrote: Remedy It's good to get something from you ! Welcome back to town @debears Thanks for finally answering my questions about the way kush treated you in his post. You seemed very reluctant to do it. Show nested quote + On October 01 2012 03:04 debears wrote: @Djo On October 01 2012 02:09 Djodref wrote: @debears Well I would disagree about sheeping. Nobody so far has pointed out the defense you got from kush and the posts where he implies that you are his scumbuddy. So why do you think kush was defending you ? @everyone Before going to bed, I would like to state that my guess for the scumteam is now debears/alsn. I think Z-BosoN has the right of it. I'm asking for a vig shot on debears ! Also Remedy is too much of a lurker. I don't think we are going to encounter lylo or mylo situations in this game but I hope that we can get something of him before this... You have been sheeping. Look at SDM's case on you On September 30 2012 22:03 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: And to clarify a couple of things about my case on Djo now that I'm up to date on the thread: 1. Latching on to others reads: As newbie scum it's really hard to make original cases. I had first hand experience Cubu and Imcasey in XXVI. The only case Imcasey could make was against our scum buddy Xatalos (that's quite easy because he knew he was scum). We had a similar situation with Debears in XXVII, at least in the beginning where the only case he could make was a defense of Thrawn, which is easy to do because he knew knew he was town (well, he flipped SK, but Debears couldn't know). 2. How can anyone buy into Kush's defense that easily? A newbie town is usually very suspcicious and it was a really silly defense, at the very best null. Using "player" and "people" sounds awkward? How isn't that an obvious lie? + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 20:12 kushm4sta wrote: 2. My supposed scumslip: huh? What else should I have called you? Player? Person? Maybe but to me those things sound awkward. Townie just seemed like the most non awkward word to use. Innocent until proven guilty. That's how we do it in America bro. As for the other lurkers, I don't find Remedy suspicious, rather the opposite although his post count is still low. Nothing really stuck out to me the same way Djo did when reading Omn's and Corrosion's filter. Also, the reason why no one is addressing kush's "scum for life" and "I saved you" posts to me is because the argument is pure WIFOM. Kush was scum. For that reason, we have to look at scum motivations 1) He was giving away his partner and throwing the game away. I believe he didn't give up on the game since he was mafia. Otherwise, he would most likely be punished for his actions in the game. Also, he is experienced. He isn't a dumb noob that would give up. He was willing to take the sack as scum last game when people started reading him as scum (although it never came to that). 2) He was attempting to set up someone who had "soft defended" him so that it would lead to a mislynch the next day.This point can be easily turned into WIFOM. Why would you believe the words of a confirmed scum? The purpose of mafia is to disrupt the the town and turn townies against each other. Number two fulfills that purpose. I agree that kush defending you can be turn into a WIFOM shitfest. But what I get from kush's meta is that he let his emotions speak anyway, regardless if he is town or mafia. I think that's the reason why DarthPunk nailed him so easily. I've been looking at kush's behavior through the thread and I found that it changes after Z-BosoN's case on you. Please look carefully at the time stamps + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 05:29 Z-BosoN wrote: This is the time when Z-BosoN strongly attacks debears and vote for him in the thread. All the following posts are from kush's filter. I think he was desparate to see the game lost for mafia so fast and started to flame and troll. On September 29 2012 05:46 kushm4sta wrote: Hi z bozon. Inconsistencies do not make someone scum. Also it's quite funny how you are so certain this early in the game. To summarize this awesome post: your case is not strong. you are overconfident in your scumread. Very first reaction to Z-BosoN's vote on debears On September 29 2012 05:52 kushm4sta wrote: hi stutters . its not that I don't give a fuck about this game. its that I don't give a fuck about not making "scumslips". what questions have I dodged? To need to ask me them with a.question mark apart from the rest of your text. The only question I see are what are other examples of savvy. I can't find them on my.phone. He fought with Alsn (allison?) though. Maybe you can look into that racquetball is lame. also you are.not excused cursing. Flaming stutters On September 29 2012 05:59 kushm4sta wrote: My.top scumread after darthpenguin: haven't given it.much thought. maybe djosef because he is playing the noobs.card pretty hard. and djo guy,.if you want people.to say your name right don't make it random letters please Attacking me because my name is weird ! (This one is a joke by the way) On September 29 2012 06:22 kushm4sta wrote: Show nested quote + On September 29 2012 06:17 Z-BosoN wrote: On September 29 2012 05:59 kushm4sta wrote: My.top scumread after darthpenguin: haven't given it.much thought. maybe djosef because he is playing the noobs.card pretty hard. and djo guy,.if you want people.to say your name right don't make it random letters please Then give it more thought. kush seems scummiest honestly ##vote kush The ice on the cake And one hour later On September 29 2012 07:44 kushm4sta wrote: debears I saved you bro...scumteam 4 lyfe He think he was still heated at that time. Also I think he got blamed for it because there is an apology post from him roughly one hour later again. On September 29 2012 08:58 kushm4sta wrote: i apologize btw Honestly I would feel better if it was a WIFOM trap but I don't think so. Kush directly discredited Z-BosoN when he voted for you and at a time when he wasn't totally derailing. I'm pretty sure that's what made him go ape shit. Here is the post I really like from Z-BosoN. Really easy to read On October 02 2012 14:52 Z-BosoN wrote: Hold up. Not retarded. I wasn't going to dive too much into this because I feel a little bad using a possible mod-warning for arguments. Let's take a look at what happened. @6:56 - kush begins going apeshit, throwing thoughtless posts Show nested quote + On September 29 2012 06:56 kushm4sta wrote: wow only 2 votes. it seems like everyone wants to lynch me and I make imo the vest case and no one even cares because they want to lynch me so bad. Show nested quote + On September 29 2012 06:57 kushm4sta wrote: it seems like I am.beyond helping myself. why would I want to help a town that is going to lynch me Show nested quote + On September 29 2012 07:08 kushm4sta wrote: sorry guys I'm being stupid. moretryhard coming regardless of if you lynch me. also zbosom your case sucks really bad lol. everyone is thinking it. I'm not afraidbto hurt your feelings though. Show nested quote + On September 29 2012 07:32 kushm4sta wrote: zboso I dead will be more valuableble than you alive...dat debears case And finally: Show nested quote + On September 29 2012 07:44 kushm4sta wrote: debears I saved you bro...scumteam 4 lyfe 50 minutes later... @8:35: whole different tone. Apologetic, calm. Show nested quote + On September 29 2012 08:35 kushm4sta wrote: OFC I can remedy. You are the remedy for my sadness. What I meant is at the last second every consolidates on 1 afker because they can't decide on someone active to lynch. It keeps pressure on scum because scum feel like they still have a chance of being lynched, rather than if you just say from the beginning "yeah we're gonna lynch an afk" Show nested quote + On September 29 2012 08:39 kushm4sta wrote: It felt hopeless honestly. See my drive to do well is inherently connecting to self survival and when I think I'm going to die that drive goes away. Everyone said they wanted to lynch me... it was either me or an afker and it was definitely going to be me. @9:28: Then, he slowly regresses to his dumb desperate self, insulting my case and so forth.: Show nested quote + On September 29 2012 09:28 kushm4sta wrote: darth is going to be so happy when he gets back Show nested quote + On September 29 2012 10:05 kushm4sta wrote: all vote kush then you can afk until d2 Show nested quote + On September 29 2012 11:33 kushm4sta wrote: he thinks your base on debears is bad.. I know you try harded on it and I'm sorry dude. Just wait he's going to think it's bad. It all came right after that post. I'm not going to go into details, won't use it as an argument, but it's not like I can just ignore it. At a glance, Alsn's posting seem much scummier than yours. I'm almost certain one of you, if not both of you are scum at this point. It's just that, you being scum, it all fits, including some other thoughts of my own. Regardless of what you come out as, he's likely gonna come off lynched day 3, and I will see to that. ##Vote debears So here was the introduction. If you are not familiar with these posts, I encourage you to read them carefully. If you don't have time and want to get to the new part, just skip the previous spoiler. | ||
Djodref
France3332 Posts
This was just an introduction to this case. @Everyone Please pay attention to this post from kush, it occurs 15 minutes after Z-BosoN case and vote on debears, in response to it. At this time we have two votes (SDM and Stutters) on him (Darth did unvote him before). So far, he was still trying to avoid a lynch and defending himself quite reasonably. On September 29 2012 05:46 kushm4sta wrote: Show nested quote + On September 29 2012 05:29 Z-BosoN wrote: All right, I went through debears filter now, and I'm confident he is scum. Let's go through this more carefully now. His first post: On September 28 2012 11:05 debears wrote: Lol. Kush already going at it. Hey guys. I'm debears. This is my second game ever of mafia. I have a couple of things to add: + Show Spoiler + Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 09:18 DarthPunk wrote: On September 28 2012 09:10 Z-BosoN wrote: On September 28 2012 08:43 DarthPunk wrote: It is not impossible to find scum on the first day. Policy lynches get you no info, you are most likely going to hit a townie, and you end up in the same position the next day minus 2 town. @Djodref your 'day plan' is unnecessary. Scum hunt, vote for your top scum read and everything else will fall into place. After LVII I'm rather liking the idea of policy lynches, in extreme cases. Killing lurkers in a lurker-infested town, for example, is something I'm inclined to agree on. If the town proves itself active, then whoever proves himself scummier will occupy the noose. Given that this is a newbie game, scums are generally more scared to post. While that is a general tendency, I don't agree with mass posters being cleared right off the bat, even if their posts seem meaningful. What I suggest in this game, is that people read. From my few games, much time is usually wasted discussing things that have not been read properly. On September 28 2012 06:56 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: Cool, we're on. Pretty bad timing though, I'm off to bed and then I've got a day at uni before I can really start posting. I hope to God when I get back we've moved past the lurker policy discussion. My message to newbies: the best way for you to clear yourself is to post a lot. Don't post just for the sake of posting though, that'll make you look like scum because posting for the sake of posting is what scum do. This is a rather useless post. Newbie towns want to scumhunt. Newbie scum want to look like they are scumhunting. That =/= posting a lot but not for the sake of posting, or whatever you meant. And please tell me, what do you mean? You say you hope to have moved past the lurker discussion, and yet you are telling people to post a lot? In my eyes you are telling people not to lurk because that will make them seem scummy. It seems to me that you are indirectly stating your views on lurkers despite openly saying you don't want to talk about them. Meh. Don't like lurker policy lynches at all. It just tells scum: Post. and your safe. I have read every post so far as scummy and I don't see SDM's post as more or less scummy than the others. But posting a lot will let people get a good read on you so you should 100% be doing this as town. And then if all the townies are posting you force scum to. Which makes it much easier to nab them also. SO. Post a lot if you are town. You make scum uncomfortable and facilitate town reads on yourself and scum reads on scum. You also clutter the thread if you just post alot. Let me specify. Post quality as often as you can. That means reread the thread and build good cases. One liners don't do much good. Cases with multiple quotes and a few sentences of explanation per quote are good (most of the time). Also, USE YOUR COACHES TOWN. Thrawn pmed Hapa over 50 times last game and he had the best town performance. That isn't a coincidence. @Kush I don't like the way you are starting off this game kush. It's eerily similar as last game when you were mafia. You mention you're deathless streak, nk, and your scummy meta without anyone bringing it up. You should know that I most likely know you're trends better than anyone else in this game. The only difference between this game and last is that you have engaged in a flame war with Darth this game, which is unhelpful to our town. FOS Kush @everyone One more thing: Feel free to accuse and build cases on anyone you want for the first 24 hours. However, let's start tunneling for the second 24 hours. Also, I would like everyone to start considering a lurker (in your head) once we hit the second 24 hours as a backup. If we get close to the lynch deadline, and there are no scummy candidates, feel free to post a good case on which lurker would be the best candidate. First of all, his "I want town to win!!" post telling town to use their coaches. He then FoS's Kush, due to the fact that he's playing a similar game as the one he was scum. He says that DP + kush flame war is bad for the town, but doesn't attack Darthpunk, probably because he finds kush to be more scummy looking. Now, from a townie perspective, what does debear want? Information in order to lynch kush, as he pointed a FOS mostly based on a meta read. But suddenly, towards darthpunk: snip --You could also say that you are too convinced in your reasons. What I am cautious of at this point is that you stated directly before the game that you were after kush if he plays like he has in his past 3 games. I feel like that may be clouding your judgement in this situation. Our main goal is to lynch mafia. Yes, kush has said some scummy things. However, I'm not gonna go around parading this early saying "kush is scum. Kush is scum. OMFG". Also, let the man defend himself instead of trying to rally everyone active behind your cause so early. If he is scummy, the votes will come. He is defensive towards kush. That's not how townies think. While I agree that DP is a bit overboard on kush, I don't agree that he failed to give arguments as to why he thinks that is so. A townie with a FOS on someone will want to deal with the arguments first. He doesn't do that, and suddenly becomes defensive on Kush. He says, later: I'm not defending him as much as I'm trying to tell you that you are going overboard right now. You don't have to rush in annointing him scum. He is more bothered by DPs certainty than by his actual arguments. Inconsistency #1. He then comes up with two cases. One against me, and one against Djoref: @Boson + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 09:10 Z-BosoN wrote: Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 08:43 DarthPunk wrote: It is not impossible to find scum on the first day. Policy lynches get you no info, you are most likely going to hit a townie, and you end up in the same position the next day minus 2 town. @Djodref your 'day plan' is unnecessary. Scum hunt, vote for your top scum read and everything else will fall into place. After LVII I'm rather liking the idea of policy lynches, in extreme cases. Killing lurkers in a lurker-infested town, for example, is something I'm inclined to agree on. If the town proves itself active, then whoever proves himself scummier will occupy the noose. Given that this is a newbie game, scums are generally more scared to post. While that is a general tendency, I don't agree with mass posters being cleared right off the bat, even if their posts seem meaningful. What I suggest in this game, is that people read. From my few games, much time is usually wasted discussing things that have not been read properly. Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 06:56 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: Cool, we're on. Pretty bad timing though, I'm off to bed and then I've got a day at uni before I can really start posting. I hope to God when I get back we've moved past the lurker policy discussion. My message to newbies: the best way for you to clear yourself is to post a lot. Don't post just for the sake of posting though, that'll make you look like scum because posting for the sake of posting is what scum do. This is a rather useless post. Newbie towns want to scumhunt. Newbie scum want to look like they are scumhunting. That =/= posting a lot but not for the sake of posting, or whatever you meant. And please tell me, what do you mean? You say you hope to have moved past the lurker discussion, and yet you are telling people to post a lot? In my eyes you are telling people not to lurk because that will make them seem scummy. It seems to me that you are indirectly stating your views on lurkers despite openly saying you don't want to talk about them. Boson, please try not to read too hard into a person's very first posts and make something out of nothing. It is pretty clear what sonic was saying. He wants newbies to post so that they don't get grouped under the lurker corral that usually follows up later. Last game, we had lurkers galore and it really messed up the town. Also, you mention that his post is useless. Now I will examine your two other posts in terms of uselessness. On September 28 2012 09:12 Z-BosoN wrote: Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 09:01 kushm4sta wrote: On September 28 2012 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: On September 28 2012 06:58 kushm4sta wrote: @sonic getting everyone's thoughts on lurker policy is important. Don't argue about it but share your views on the matter please.. No it's not. It is simply a mechanism to get the discussion going and allows scum to seem to participate and to potentially mislynch an inactive townie. Any more talk of policy will get you FoS'd. Sorry but who appointed this asshole boss? you get people's thoughts on lurker policy, so you can catch them deviating from it later and question them about it. And why are you that scared of a FOS? A one-liner. A question that really doesn't accomplish anything. In other words, a useless post. Also, your next post doesn't address his response although he responded right after and you posted within 30 minutes of his response in a pretty light thread. On September 28 2012 09:43 Z-BosoN wrote: @DP Saying we will lynch lurkers is one thing. Deciding whether a lurker should die later at day two is another. What I said is I'm inclined to lynch a lurker if there aren't better choices, not that we will 100% lynch a lurker. @Stutters I'd like to see more posts from you. In XXIV you showed you were capable of making decent posts as town, so I encourage you to post eve more here. @kush What's your view on darthpunk? You said you don't like his coldness, but you don't like it in a "he's scum" sort of way? Yet again, nothing of substance here. You go more in depth about semantics (is that the right word I'm looking for?) about lynching lurkers and lynching lurkers at day two. Second, you call out stutters, who has already been warned by others and most likely the mods for no reason this early in the game. Finally, two sentences, two questions going on about the exact wording of kush's statements. It sounded like before the game you had stated that you have played in multiple games. Is that true? For someone who is telling other people to not post useless posts, you aren't doing a good job of it yourself. Looks more like you are trying to just be active while off the radar. In other words, you are a semi-active lurker who has bad post quality. Sounds like characteristics of a certain alignment. @Djoref + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 08:51 Djodref wrote: @Darthpunk Nevermind you look just more confident to get a scum on D1 than me. Regarding my plan, I think we need general directions to follow because of the majority lynch. It is a way to gather everybody around 2-3 suspicious players and secure a lynch. I'm assuming everyone agree on a no-lynch to be stupid. Djoref, I don't like that statement at all. That's the second post you bring up about the likelihood of lynching a townie d1. As town, you should never have that mentality. I would probably less likely to bring this up if you were a total nooby. However, you said you "know Kush's meta" which means you have some decent understanding of the game for a noob. By saying this, it seems that you are setting yourself an excuse to be indecisive later in the day when the lynch voting comes around. Alone, it isn't much. However, your other posts don't help. On September 28 2012 08:44 Djodref wrote: @Darthpunk Considering that we are likely to lynch a town on D1, don't you think it's a lesser wrong to get rid of someone inactive ? Inactivity means no scumhunt and room to hide for the mafia... After playing mafia last game, I feel like heavy lurking is a bad play for mafia. It puts too much pressure on you are as a scum. Instead, posting lightly without much substance is more mafia indicative. Yet again, I feel you are just looking like you are contributing without saying much. Especially when you already covered your thoughts in a previous post. On September 28 2012 08:36 Djodref wrote: Hello everybody ! About me This is my first game ever on forum but I've been playing on SC2mafia and also irl. But I've been lurking on the TL Mafia forum for a while (so I know your meta kush^^) and I decided to join this newbie game. I'm also a French guy and I live in Korea so my english is not on top and it's going to ne difficult for me to be around at deadline (5.00 am KST). Lurker policy From the games I've seen, unless you have a golden scumslip on d1, it's very difficult to lynch a scum the very first day. So I have no problem ending up voting for the most suspicious lurker at the end of the day. I define most suspicious lurker as a semi-lurker just trying to blend in. Day Plan I don't think to be able to be around for the first deadline so I would like to propose a day plan to secure a lynch as we are using a majority vote. First 24 hours to find lynch candidates while scumhunting and next 20 hours to decide who is the scummiest. Last 4 hours to consolidate the vote or switch to a lurker. Please discuss Notice how you are just repeating points? It isn't helpful to us. Next post On September 28 2012 11:09 Djodref wrote: @Kush Was it also a joke ? How can you be so sure you are not going to be NKed ? A two sentence, two question post. I don't like these. They are worthless. Also, this question came quite a bit later after darthpunk already was asking questions about joking. You seem to be sheeping onto darth's case against kush. On September 28 2012 11:53 Djodref wrote: Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 11:22 kushm4sta wrote: Because the most active townie is tunneling me? I would also like to hear you explanations about this specific part. I don't have a read on Darth on the moment considering he has only been hard tunneling you. As you said yourself you have a scummy meta so you are an easy target for early game to put pressure on. So what makes him so much town ? Yet again, this post is just repeating what darth is saying. Another question. I don't like this. Your early posts are indicative of a semi-active scum. Sheeping, question posts, and rehashing things already said multiple times. Notice the similarity between the two. He attacks us for asking questions (later on denies that they provide any discussion whatsoever), and falls into the same "semi-active lurker" category he's sniffing about. I will ignore the quality of his arguments, which I personally think are horrible, and will look more towards their similarity. From his case against me: A one-liner. A question that really doesn't accomplish anything. In other words, a useless post. Also, your next post doesn't address his response although he responded right after and you posted within 30 minutes of his response in a pretty light thread. For someone who is telling other people to not post useless posts, you aren't doing a good job of it yourself. Looks more like you are trying to just be active while off the radar. In other words, you are a semi-active lurker who has bad post quality. Sounds like characteristics of a certain alignment. From his case against Djoref: A two sentence, two question post. I don't like these. They are worthless. Also, this question came quite a bit later after darthpunk already was asking questions about joking. You seem to be sheeping onto darth's case against kush. Your early posts are indicative of a semi-active scum. Sheeping, question posts, and rehashing things already said multiple times. See the similarity, especially the bolded part? It seems that he has this "semi-active scum" cake recipe that he is using to sniff out scum. He also calls us out on our posting quality, in my case saying it is bad. I won't address his next post towards me because I've already done so, and because it doesn't increase his scumminess , as "bad cases =/= scum" (although it pisses me off). Anyways, now to the main stuff. He has a case against me and Djoref, for pretty much the same reasoning. Yet, check out what his next post on Djoref is: On September 29 2012 01:55 debears wrote: @Djoref On September 28 2012 15:22 Djodref wrote: @DarthPunk For your information, i consider the comments of debears on my posts legitimate. Let me say that I even don't like them. Currently reading the guides and older game analysis. Please pm marv for help. The coaches are great Wtf??? What ?? Where is his case against Djoref?? He goes from a scummy-looking sheep with one liners to a "townie who should pm marv for help"? Could he have forgotten that Djoref was one of his main suspicions? Inconsistency #2 Note that I no longer think that his defense of SDM is scummy. I've gone over that a few times and I admit that it can also come from a townie perspective. To summarize, here are the main inconsistencies in his play that scream to me SCUM: 1) He had a FOS on kush, then hurried on to defend him, in the manner I've shown above. I cannot fathom for the life of me having a FOS on someone and suddenly feel like I have to address an exaggeration on that person before I actually address the case. 2) He completely absolves Djoref for absolutely no reason. Townies do not throw around suspicions only to insta-drop them. 3) The other supporting arguments I've shown above. debears is SCUM! ##vote debears Hi z bozon. Inconsistencies do not make someone scum. Also it's quite funny how you are so certain this early in the game. To summarize this awesome post: your case is not strong. you are overconfident in your scumread. And now, we have 2 possibilities. Either debears is town or debears is mafia.
For me, only the second one makes sense. Also with two members of the mafia already under pressure this early in the game and kush certainly realizing his scumslip is going to cost him his life, he gives up. I don't see any other reason why he had gone so much into self-pity with only 2 votes against him. The case and the vote on debears from Z-BosoN made it also happened. Now I understand that I'm getting too much into kush's mind but think about it twice and I hope you are going to realize how much it makes sense. Honestly, did you expect kush to blow up like this ? And now, back to debears himself. When I made my first cases against him which I have spoiled in my introduction of this post, I was really eager to hear him comment on kush's defense of him and also the WIFOM bombs that kush has planted on him. First of all, he didn't reply on this point and I had to ask him again to obtain the following answer. On October 01 2012 03:04 debears wrote: @Djo Show nested quote + On October 01 2012 02:09 Djodref wrote: @debears Well I would disagree about sheeping. Nobody so far has pointed out the defense you got from kush and the posts where he implies that you are his scumbuddy. So why do you think kush was defending you ? @everyone Before going to bed, I would like to state that my guess for the scumteam is now debears/alsn. I think Z-BosoN has the right of it. I'm asking for a vig shot on debears ! Also Remedy is too much of a lurker. I don't think we are going to encounter lylo or mylo situations in this game but I hope that we can get something of him before this... You have been sheeping. Look at SDM's case on you Show nested quote + On September 30 2012 22:03 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: And to clarify a couple of things about my case on Djo now that I'm up to date on the thread: 1. Latching on to others reads: As newbie scum it's really hard to make original cases. I had first hand experience Cubu and Imcasey in XXVI. The only case Imcasey could make was against our scum buddy Xatalos (that's quite easy because he knew he was scum). We had a similar situation with Debears in XXVII, at least in the beginning where the only case he could make was a defense of Thrawn, which is easy to do because he knew knew he was town (well, he flipped SK, but Debears couldn't know). 2. How can anyone buy into Kush's defense that easily? A newbie town is usually very suspcicious and it was a really silly defense, at the very best null. Using "player" and "people" sounds awkward? How isn't that an obvious lie? + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 20:12 kushm4sta wrote: 2. My supposed scumslip: huh? What else should I have called you? Player? Person? Maybe but to me those things sound awkward. Townie just seemed like the most non awkward word to use. Innocent until proven guilty. That's how we do it in America bro. As for the other lurkers, I don't find Remedy suspicious, rather the opposite although his post count is still low. Nothing really stuck out to me the same way Djo did when reading Omn's and Corrosion's filter. Also, the reason why no one is addressing kush's "scum for life" and "I saved you" posts to me is because the argument is pure WIFOM. Kush was scum. For that reason, we have to look at scum motivations 1) He was giving away his partner and throwing the game away. I believe he didn't give up on the game since he was mafia. Otherwise, he would most likely be punished for his actions in the game. Also, he is experienced. He isn't a dumb noob that would give up. He was willing to take the sack as scum last game when people started reading him as scum (although it never came to that). 2) He was attempting to set up someone who had "soft defended" him so that it would lead to a mislynch the next day.This point can be easily turned into WIFOM. Why would you believe the words of a confirmed scum? The purpose of mafia is to disrupt the the town and turn townies against each other. Number two fulfills that purpose. Notice how he doesn't address the defense of kush to comment only on the WIFOM. He really cannot mention or comment on that point. It incriminates him too much. And on a side note, I came at him with pure WIFOM arguments and he doesn't even have the decency of OGMusing me ? My guess is that he cannot build a case against me for two reasons:
Just look how he is all washy-washy about me. I'm betting he would love someone to build a case against me ^^ On October 01 2012 15:16 debears wrote: Djo - Hard to read. He goes back and forth. I don't like how he is latching to kush's posts about saving me and the scum team for life. He would be assuming that kush was throwing the game or he is entering a WIFOM disaster. Null but he's not helping himself But don't worry guys, I'm tunneling for a greater good. Because debears is Mafia ! | ||
Djodref
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I promised you some explanations for such a switch so I'll just write them before going to bed but don't expect me to participate anymore than that. I've been working more than 12 hours today and it's already 3am in Korea... ##Vote: Alsn | ||
Djodref
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If you are really town, please find me an explanation why kush and the mafia team didn't try to create a counter wagon on you with the help of the Z-BosoN case ? And you stated that you respect kush as player. So please explain me why he's cracking under the pressure after two votes against him ? | ||
Djodref
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Djodref
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Djodref
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First let me say that I'm getting a very strong town read on Z-BosoN and I really like his posts and his cases. I might be too gullible for a newbie but he definitively has an influence on my thinking process while I read the thread. Like him, I'm pretty much sure that debears/Alsn is our scumteam but I spent much more thinking time into debears. So, here are the main reasons why I think Alsn deserves also a lynch: [list] [*]Townies should be concise. He obviously fails at it. I feel like he is trying to cluster the thread on purpose [*]Townies should scumhunt. They are not afraid of making bold accusations. He lacks these townies traits. [*]Association case with Kush. Please refer to the following post from Z-BosoN + Show Spoiler + On September 30 2012 17:13 Z-BosoN wrote: So I woke up a couple of hours earlier than I should have. Instead of going back to sleep, I decide to go read some filters. Sometimes I hate this game rofl. Anyways, I will agree with one thing DP said, alsn is scummy as shit. Look at his stance on kush throughout the thread. Brief timeline here: ACT I - Kush. If you are scummy like last game, I will lynch you no matter what. + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 16:54 Alsn wrote: Hey everyone, just woke up and was about to check when the game was supposed to start. Imagine my surprise when it's already started! Although looking closely the game started as I went to sleep, so I wouldn't have been able to participate until now either way. So in any case, I'm Alsn, I like logic. My previous mafia games so far amount to a single one, a game where I was NKd N1 as Vanilla Townie. My filter for that game can be found here. Other than that I have only ever played SC2 Mafia in any significant amounts(a game while using the same core rules, plays extremely different due to the time constraints and limits on discussion). If you are interested, I was also active in the /obs QT discussion of NMMXXVII which can be found here. So, with that out of the way, I read the first few posts and saw that this game continues the trend of lurker policy lynching. I agree that there needs to be pressure on scum to actually post, since without scum posts to analyse all the scumhunting in the world will almost certainly only turn up townies(due to lurkers generally being null reads). That said, I followed Tl Mafia LVII wherein there was a lot of discussion about lynching "trolly meta" players and I would like to take that one step further. Kush, while I realize that you have a posting style which by its nature is very confrontational and inflammatory, I feel that unless you actually provide some concrete analysis without using almost purely OMGUS argumentation that it is in town's best interest to just straight up lynch you right away. Simply put, unless your cases actually provide substance then I think you will just be a late game liability for town, mostly giving everyone a null read and potentially forcing people to make a town or scum read on you without having much of an idea what you are. So to sum up, kush, I can definitely forgive you for your "style" of posting but I will not under any circumstance forgive you for posting shitty content, just like I will not forgive anyone else for doing so either. Understand that I'm not singling you out as a target, I'm using your history as an example for what I consider scummy play. Now, on to actually read the thread and see if I can respond to something. ACT II - It is as we feared. Kush has defiled us all. FOS Kush + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 17:56 Alsn wrote: Wow, upon reading the thread I realise that kush has been following the exact pattern I just now specified to be the way not to play if he wanted to absolve himself in my eyes. In fact, I could go back to my initial posts to him in NMMXXV saying almost the exact same thing. As such, I think I have no choice but to cast a: FoS kushm4sta kush, in order for me to let up, I want you to stop it with your ridiculous knee-jerk play and actually point out why you think other people are scummy as opposed to why you yourself is so obviously town. While the following idiom is quite ironic in a forum game, actions speak louder than words and you defending yourself is just that, meaningless words. Start proving to everyone that you are concerned with finding scum instead of worrying about your silly streak. That being said, I think everyone else is jumping the gun here, kush is an extremely easy target to pick on, especially since he almost never seems to think before he posts. The scumslip that Darth and others pointed out can definitely be seen as damning. However, I am not inclined to agree with the following post from Darth: Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 13:46 DarthPunk wrote:I am not flaming Kush. I am legitimately scum hunting. The contrast in this situation, to the one with shiao, are so stark that there is no point even bringing it up. You will know when I am flaming when you see it, and even then it is not really that big a scum tell. I can tell the difference between Scummy town and actual scum, and it is not 'illogical' to be able to do this. Kush right now is not scummy town. He has slipped HUGELY. He is conforming to his previous scum meta. Seriously... There is no explanation for his town read on me. The only reason he would say that is if he was scum. This last part seems to overly simplify the matter to me. The only reason? I myself can see a few reasons, but I would like kush to reply himself before I comment further as I don't want to give him an easy out. I can state for the record that unless kush shapes up considerably, I'm all in favour of lynching him. Simply because him playing like his normal self would be a liability for town later on due to his inclination to just defend himself over hunting scum. However, I definitely want to give him the benefit of the doubt and allow him to actually try and show that he has town's best interest in mind. So until then, while I definitely would like everyone to share their reads on kush so far, that is not enough for D1. We need to start exploring different possibilities because if we decide to lynch kush and he flips green, spending all of D1 talking about him will put us back at square one minus two townies. I'll make another post within an hour or two on another topic as I think I've made myself perfectly clear on where I stand on kush, but right now I need breakfast. ACT III - DarthPunk, you are going overboard on kush. I find you using ridiculous logic. How are you so sure of this and that? Hm.... I'll go with you being townie, ya know, for throwing yourself out there. + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 22:03 Alsn wrote: Show nested quote + Astonishing how? I would like you to explain what's so amazingly pro-town about tunneling kush from the very beginning. I find the risks of that approach to be very high from a town perspective.On September 28 2012 21:38 DarthPunk wrote: On September 28 2012 21:31 Alsn wrote: he has pointed out that he doesn't agree with your tunneling of kush. I find it astonishing that you 'interpret' debears' post that way in context of your view of Z-Boson. The way in which you paraphrase things whilst obscuring the truth/ put your own angle on things has me very concerned. There are two scenarios: A) He flips green, and unless he during the day completely changed his character we will have almost no way of distinguishing who among the people who pushed for his lynch were scum and who were town. B) He flips scum, at this point I just don't find that likely enough to risk A) happening. That fact alone is enough for me to see that post of debears as entirely reasonable, since both of you at the time were basically calling out kush for every single post he was making(for good reason, but not if that's the only thing you are doing). + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 00:24 Alsn wrote: Show nested quote + Given the evidence so far no, I don't, and frankly I don't see why that's so hard to believe. Given his history, it should be easy to see for anyone that while he has different town and scum metas(as pointed out by Hapahauli in the obs QT of NMMXVII), his comments so far this game is entirely in line with the way he usually posts during D1. Basically just writing up whatever is on his mind. That to me doesn't really increase or decrease the chances of him flipping either way(but the setup of the game says all else being equal, 75% of the players are green, 25% are scum)On September 28 2012 22:39 DarthPunk wrote: On September 28 2012 22:03 Alsn wrote: On September 28 2012 21:38 DarthPunk wrote: Astonishing how? I would like you to explain what's so amazingly pro-town about tunneling kush from the very beginning. I find the risks of that approach to be very high from a town perspective.On September 28 2012 21:31 Alsn wrote: he has pointed out that he doesn't agree with your tunneling of kush. I find it astonishing that you 'interpret' debears' post that way in context of your view of Z-Boson. The way in which you paraphrase things whilst obscuring the truth/ put your own angle on things has me very concerned. There are two scenarios: A) He flips green, and unless he during the day completely changed his character we will have almost no way of distinguishing who among the people who pushed for his lynch were scum and who were town. B) He flips scum, at this point I just don't find that likely enough to risk A) happening. That fact alone is enough for me to see that post of debears as entirely reasonable, since both of you at the time were basically calling out kush for every single post he was making(for good reason, but not if that's the only thing you are doing). I was not just looking at Kush. I was looking at the reactions to my case on kush also, Namely debears. As far as I am concerned Kush is scum and therefore it is best for town to lynch him. I like to focus on one thing at a time. Especially when he is incredibly scummy and has SCUM SLIPPED It is a common scum hunting technique and has been recommended in Several postgames. Obviously It was not to the exclusion of all others because I am now looking at you and debears. If there was nothing to go on I would have changed tac. Turns out he is scum. So I try and get him lynched. Savvy? On September 28 2012 22:03 Alsn wrote: That fact alone is enough for me to see that post of debears as entirely reasonable, since both of you at the time were basically calling out kush for every single post he was making(for good reason, but not if that's the only thing you are doing). So you don't find Kush likely to flip scum? good to know. Z -Boson hardly called out kush. I made a case. I was not tunnelling. (but I see that is the misconception you are trying to present) If by some miracle he flips green there is still a lot of info to go off. Your premise iswrong and thus your conclusions are wrong. I was calling out Kush for good reason? and at the same time Debears was entirely reasonable in shutting that down? ##FoS ALSN Yes, you called him out for good reason because his arguments(like so many times before this game) make little to no sense. But right now the only thing I really agree actually points to him being scum is what you call his scum slip. I just do not agree with you of just how damning that statement is. The first thing that sprang to mind when I saw you quoting that was simply that townie was an odd word to use, why not use player? But a confirmed scum slip? Come on, it's not like he said something that is entirely outside the realm of possibility for a town player to say. "Townie" wouldn't be the word I'd use, but I just can't see it as that obvious a scum slip. I'll accept that you are not necessarily wrong for thinking so however. Given that there are no other developments then sure, I'll admit that there's at least a higher chance of kush being scum than a random lurker being scum. But I would really like it if we could at least try to get better odds than that. Best case scenario for me would be actually having everyone talk, present cases and opinions and if no one else presents themselves as scummy, then and only then will I roll the dice on kush. Remember, there are 3 scum, not only one. Who knows, if he's scum as you say, he might look even scummier by lynch time. The case being what it is with kush, I can see now that what you were doing wasn't tunneling per se. However, I think you are doing the very thing you are accusing me of doing where you say debears was trying to "shut down" the case against kush. Like I've said several times now, that's not at all how I interpreted it, only that we shouldn't limit ourselves to a single discussion topic which at the time I felt debears was trying to suggest. Something that I happen to agree with. Show nested quote + This statement makes little sense to me. You say you were not tunneling, which I can now appreciate as probably true, but up until recently was not clear at all to me(and probably not to anyone else either). You had made quite a lot of posts in a row with kush as the only topic, as well as trying to convince others in the thread that he absolutely, 100%, no doubt whatsoever must be scum. I didn't find it unreasonable that someone would point that fact out to you. My "premise" was simply that if I find an argument reasonable, someone else trying to poke holes in that argument might not have the same motivations as myself, thus they are suspicious.On September 28 2012 22:39 DarthPunk wrote:I made a case. I was not tunnelling. (but I see that is the misconception you are trying to present) If by some miracle he flips green there is still a lot of info to go off. Your premise iswrong and thus your conclusions are wrong. The bolded line is ridiculous however, especially in context with the sentence before it. What makes you so sure that we would have "a lot of info to go off" in the case of everyone tunneling kush and us lynching him? My A) vs. B) scenario that you are referring to was dependent on the hypothetical scenario of everyone tunneling kush(which I already explained seemed to be where things were going at the time). I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you misunderstood what I was trying to say instead of deliberately using a red herring to try and discredit me. With that in mind, based on your willingness to put yourself out there, I have a slight town read on you. INTERLUDE --- kush goes ape shit. Ravages town with his treachery. Denies every chance he has to be saved, and wails incessantly. The ACT I prophecy was correct. However... ACT IV - It is as I feared. Everyone is voting for kush with little discussion. I dislike this lynch. I'm ok with lynching kush, but I wanna lynch my biggest scum read. You know, the one I don't have. Also, I think that scum wouldn't just go ahead and bus. You know, they would probably most likely trying to find another solution other than bussing. You know, like the thing I'm trying to do right now. + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 18:17 Alsn wrote: First, I'd like to start things with stating so far D1 has pretty much lived up to my exact nightmare scenario that I speculated about when arguing with DP yesterday. Everyone is voting kush with only very little discussion about any other topic(mainly, the debears-boson exchange). Looking at the vote count, the last official count says 7, and now corrosion added his vote for a total of 8. With myself that would be 9, the exact number of town in this game. From my point of view, unless kushm4sta, Djodref and Lesrah are the 3 scum, there are scum pushing this lynch. Given that, I'm really starting to dislike this lynch. I agree however that kush has been mostly concerned with defending himself against perceived injustice rather than actually trying to hunt scum, this still does not convince me that he is scum. Lynching scum with an overwhelming majority D1 just seems like way too improbably. Sure, if we had to fight tooth and nail to get 7 votes, I might buy it, but that's not the case. It seems to me there must be scum sheeping onto this lynch. Like I've stated before I can go along with the kush lynch, but I'd rather try and lynch my top scum read at this point and with the current developments, I see a kush lynch more as a last resort than my main scum read. Unfortunately, this argument is only available to people who have yet to vote and are town, as well as to scum since other than myself only scum are aware of my alignment. For everyone else, the "unless a, b and c are scum" argument will include me. My argument is at least enough to convince myself, so I'll be scouring the thread for the next couple of hours to see if my "gut scum reads" so far have any merit and if so push that/those case(s) instead. If it turns out that they are going nowhere, I will vote kush. But I still feel we have enough time to at least have a discussion on the topic of "just wtf is going on here?!". On September 29 2012 18:28 Alsn wrote: A quick addendum, I'm aware that scum pushing the lynch does not exonerate kush since they could be bussing him. However, given the assumption that kush is scum and there are active scum among the voters, I just find it more likely that they would try and find another solution than bussing, especially since it's D1. That's my main reason for not being convinced that kush is scum. ACT V - The resolve. I've had a vision. It is inevitable, kush must be lynched. I have realized the errors of my ways and it is imperative that kush is lynched. + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 21:15 Alsn wrote: I've been doing some soul searching and I'm starting to agree that it's not worth it to try and push any other cases right now. Mostly because my entire premise was that I was thinking it to be unlikely for kush to be scum. I realise that after trying to put into words why I think that is so, I have nothing other than the fact that I "feel" him to be town, which is a really stupid reason for absolving him. I thought I could back it up by saying he's been pressured to hard, there's no way he's responsible for not scum hunting. But in the end, I can't find a logical reason to forgive him if I exclude my own gut feeling from the equation. I think now that my best option is to hold on to whatever small reads I have(because while I have some suspicions, I don't think they are rock solid) until after the lynch is over. Because at least then, we will have more information. So for now, although my gut is screaming at me, I'll commit to voting for kush, mostly because most of what I said about BosoN has returned somewhat satisfactory answers, I really don't like the way a lot of people got away with not basically posting anything at all(I'm looking at you, Djodref, corrosion, Omniscient, RemedySC). I think that's probably what irks me the most, the thing I was most hoping would not happen, did happen. ##Vote: kushm4sta sup scum? anyone? Well, I cannot think of any more point now. Going to bed... | ||
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On October 03 2012 03:20 debears wrote: @Djo There are 3 possibilities I see from a mafia side. 1) The mafia planned a bus and stuck with the plan 2) The mafia was afk at the time the case started to really build up 3) The mafia were afraid of starting a counter wagon The most likely one to me are 2 or 3, but speculating is just WIFOM. We don't know. Well I don't see why kush should feel the urge of defending you in the cases 2 or 3. I still think that my explanations make more sense. So I see only 2 possibilities right now:
I hope you don't mind if I keep on pushing your lynch to have my answers By the way, I admire the patience you are showing towards me ^^ If you turn out to be town (my estimate is a 5% chance), I would be glad to reconsider all my town reads and to apology. | ||
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[joke] Please have a look at my last post about Lesrah. I've just corrected the formatting On October 03 2012 03:10 Djodref wrote: Please modkill Lesrah hard ! I think I deserve some town credit for this post. I also was the one asking the most for news about Lesrah in this game ! [/joke] On a serious note, I think it adds more weight to my explanations about kush state of mind and why he exploded. Could you imagine yourself win a game when you have two votes and serious scumslip against you, your partner has also one vote and the last one is just the lurkiest player you have ever seen (all this in the first 24h of the game) ? I'm almost sure he was genuinely cracking now. He was so proud of his unkilled, undefeated streak. That made him gamethrow and give away his partner. So, debears, how about you concede now ? This game is kinda lame anyway... @Alsn I'm sorry, I should not have been sheeping like this. Rest in peace ! | ||
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I'm not going to be stupid so I'm going to prepare for the eventuality of you being town. We are now 8 townies against one scum so I guess it's not going to be easy to find him if it's not you. By the way, who is the last scum on your opinion ? I'm going to look closely on the players who would have benefited from a hypothetical strategic bus of kush. Would you at least agree that it's very unlikely that kush wasn't strategically bussed if you are not scum ? @everyone Please somebody kill debears tonight, I don't want to lose my sanity into the dark shadows of WIFOM... | ||
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On October 03 2012 13:12 debears wrote: @Shady Show nested quote + On October 03 2012 10:01 Shady Sands wrote: Alright, since Lesrah wasn't posting through D2 then that means that if debears was the other scum there was no other scum trying to stop his lynch. Hence the lack of opposition to his lynch becomes less of a town-tell to me. This, coupled with the earlier case on him (which he hasn't adequately responded to, imo) makes me view him as scum. ## Vote debears Heading out for the night. If I don't make it back by daypost, cop please check omni or remedy and remember it is possible GF is last mafia. That's all, glhf. If you believe I'm the last scum, why wouldn't you nightcheck me? @debears It looks like you are throwing a WIFOM question to the guy who has just voted you. Are you trying to confuse him ? Also are you trying to make some blue slipping ? I would also like to remind you that Shady has replaced corrosion who was one of your scumreads. How can you even imagine that he could be cop ? | ||
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And why are inserted in what "his line of thinking as cop" would be ? It looks like you are trying to create a diversion, from my (biased) point of view. Anyway I'm not going to attack all your posts anymore. I'm also going to see what I can get through the thread. And, by the way, you have 62 hours before going to be lynched. I'll cast my vote on you as soon as D3 starts, if I'm still here. | ||
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Seriously what does it give you to know this ? It's a totally useless discussion. Plus I think we should all refrain ourselves to talking about the blues. Nobody was killed N1 and I'm just happy with that. Also I don't think we need them so much with only one scum remaining. | ||
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As far as know, Omni didn't even vote for Alsn. I think he really wasn't in the thread because everyone else switched. | ||
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Last time I've checked Omni's filter, I had a slight town-read on him. I think he is a newbie town sheeping onto cases. To be honest, I think the same of the late corrosion, Remedy and Omni. I guess my filter has a little of the same flavor. So I easily sympathize with them and don't try to look more into it. I think we are too gullible and take the cases from more experienced players as the truth itself. After that we are just reading the thread with confirmation bias so it seems natural and ok to jump on bandwagons. But at the same time, we don't want to admit that we are just sheeping so it ends up looking very washy-washy. So when Omni says "I could reference Z-Boson case", I think he just has a strong town read on him and he is sheeping him. Your points are correct nevertheless and I hope they are going to push Omni to shape up and produce better posts. @Everyone This game isn't over yet ! Don't be all laid back and trust the outcome of the game to Darth, Z-BosoN and the more experienced and active players. There is still a little possibility for them to be scum and, if this is the case, then this is the doom of Newb-Lurky Ville ! As for me, I've spent too much time looking at poisonous wine glasses lately but I'll try to shape up tomorrow. | ||
Djodref
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Cast enough vote on debears at the beginning of the day for him to be lynched. Then start to discuss who to lynch next in the improbable case where he flips town. If we come up with a better target than debears (I would say 80% mafia now for me because of his last posts and I'm less heated up), we can still switch our votes onto him. By doing things this way, I hope that we can avoid to waste too much time on debears and lurkers to lurk even more. What do you think about this plan ? Shady and I are going to vote him up so we need 3 more guys. Who's in ? | ||
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Are you in or are you too much shacked by Alsn death ? You have a personal history with debears iirc ^^ | ||
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I think I would be able to look more closely on other people if I'm sure that debears get his lynch. | ||
Djodref
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See ya ! | ||
Djodref
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GG Darth. Your death is going to be avenged. As promised yesterday, I start my day by voting debears ##Vote debears I sum up here my main reasons to vote against him [list] [*]Association case with kush [*]scumslip [*]Reluctant to address relevant points against him [*]it makes sense regarding kush's explosion [*]WIFOM bombs [/lists] But there are are some points speaking for him. His scumhunting and his attitude towards me (not OMGUSing and being patient) are spreading some doubts in my mind and my resolution of yesterday has cooled down. Still, I'm not going to move my vote until we find a better target. I'll participate to the hunt tonight (I'm at work now^^). See ya ! | ||
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Also an updated player list ? Thanks ! | ||
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Firstly I would like to remind you that my previous list is a compilation of my personal reasons to vote debears, I didn't pretend to sum up the entire case Secondly when I say that he is reluctant to address some point, I don't say that he didn't address them at all. On the contrary, I think that he addressed all of them at the end. I want to precise why I say reluctant. Let me remind you this post of mine On September 30 2012 23:46 Djodref wrote: Ok now concerning debears, I'm going to focus on one point : his scumslip ! Show nested quote + On September 29 2012 01:55 debears wrote: @Djoref On September 28 2012 15:22 Djodref wrote: @DarthPunk For your information, i consider the comments of debears on my posts legitimate. Let me say that I even don't like them. Currently reading the guides and older game analysis. Please pm marv for help. The coaches are great I know this point not new and debears has already addressed it but I would like to point out the way he addressed it. First this slip might not be as evident as Kush's one but it is one nevertheless. The same way kush knew Darth was town, debears also know I'm town is because he is mafia ! For the people suspecting me, please consider this post written by a town Djodref ^^ Debears didn't write "Get some help from the coaches !", he wrote me to get help from the town coach because he knows I am town. Now please have a look on how he answered me when Omniscient asked him about it + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 03:28 debears wrote: @Omniscient Show nested quote + On September 29 2012 02:17 Omniscient4983 wrote: On September 29 2012 01:55 debears wrote: @Djoref On September 28 2012 15:22 Djodref wrote: @DarthPunk For your information, i consider the comments of debears on my posts legitimate. Let me say that I even don't like them. Currently reading the guides and older game analysis. Please pm marv for help. The coaches are great So you're confirming him town? No. I am trying to help a newbie get into the swing of things. Last game, there was a large portion of lurkers, and it destroyed the game atmosphere. If he gets help and posts more quality, we have a much better read on him. He denies it right away and gives a town motivation for his post. But then he starts talking about lurkers. I think lurkers and newbies are two different things and he was trying to divert everybody with this line. After that I give my guess on a kush/debears/corrosion scumteam and call him a scum by association in the light of Z-BosoN case against him. Here is his answer to my post. By the way, I asked him at this time what was his read on me but I should have ask directly "how do you know I am town?" + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 15:21 debears wrote: @djo What parts of his case specifically do you believe? His main case against me is contradiction. Look at my case against thrawn in the last game. What was the main point of that argument? Inconsistency. Its an easy point for scum to point out. There are two possibilities for kushvin my eyes 1) a mafiab tryingbto pity his way out off a lynch 2) a townie acting likeva total noob with accusations against him. Which has less assumptions? Number 1. My problen with the scum by associstion is the case that i was defendung kush earky on. That us false i was trying ti communicate ti darth that his reasoning wad based off such a strong s assumption early in the game. In fact, I'd say that z-bosons case against me is the same. He looks at the mafia side only, which to me is a indicator of mafia. I can't make a case dur to drinking and being on my phone. My read in you is that you are sheeping onto cases. I don't like it because i did the same. Why do you think i would refer you to a coach? What are the townie and mafia motivations behind it. @z-boson The same question stated the line above refers to you He doesn't want to give a clear answer on his read about me. What does it mean that I'm sheeping onto cases ? I think it was too dangerous for him to pronounce himself about my alignment due to his previous slip. I asked him why he directed me to marv and answer by a question because he cannot afford to be transparent on this subject. [/QUOTE] From my point of view, he didn't directly address this slip because he is trying to avoid to mentioning the scummy point of his post (the fact that he recommended me to marv). Doesn't it feel like this to you ? And he is doing it again here after this post On October 01 2012 00:03 Djodref wrote: I would like to add some digging I have been doing in kush's filter to add more material to my case on debears. Here is a post where our great mafia player Kush defends debears from to case of Z-BosoN + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 05:46 kushm4sta wrote: Show nested quote + On September 29 2012 05:29 Z-BosoN wrote: All right, I went through debears filter now, and I'm confident he is scum. Let's go through this more carefully now. His first post: On September 28 2012 11:05 debears wrote: Lol. Kush already going at it. Hey guys. I'm debears. This is my second game ever of mafia. I have a couple of things to add: + Show Spoiler + Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 09:18 DarthPunk wrote: On September 28 2012 09:10 Z-BosoN wrote: On September 28 2012 08:43 DarthPunk wrote: It is not impossible to find scum on the first day. Policy lynches get you no info, you are most likely going to hit a townie, and you end up in the same position the next day minus 2 town. @Djodref your 'day plan' is unnecessary. Scum hunt, vote for your top scum read and everything else will fall into place. After LVII I'm rather liking the idea of policy lynches, in extreme cases. Killing lurkers in a lurker-infested town, for example, is something I'm inclined to agree on. If the town proves itself active, then whoever proves himself scummier will occupy the noose. Given that this is a newbie game, scums are generally more scared to post. While that is a general tendency, I don't agree with mass posters being cleared right off the bat, even if their posts seem meaningful. What I suggest in this game, is that people read. From my few games, much time is usually wasted discussing things that have not been read properly. On September 28 2012 06:56 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: Cool, we're on. Pretty bad timing though, I'm off to bed and then I've got a day at uni before I can really start posting. I hope to God when I get back we've moved past the lurker policy discussion. My message to newbies: the best way for you to clear yourself is to post a lot. Don't post just for the sake of posting though, that'll make you look like scum because posting for the sake of posting is what scum do. This is a rather useless post. Newbie towns want to scumhunt. Newbie scum want to look like they are scumhunting. That =/= posting a lot but not for the sake of posting, or whatever you meant. And please tell me, what do you mean? You say you hope to have moved past the lurker discussion, and yet you are telling people to post a lot? In my eyes you are telling people not to lurk because that will make them seem scummy. It seems to me that you are indirectly stating your views on lurkers despite openly saying you don't want to talk about them. Meh. Don't like lurker policy lynches at all. It just tells scum: Post. and your safe. I have read every post so far as scummy and I don't see SDM's post as more or less scummy than the others. But posting a lot will let people get a good read on you so you should 100% be doing this as town. And then if all the townies are posting you force scum to. Which makes it much easier to nab them also. SO. Post a lot if you are town. You make scum uncomfortable and facilitate town reads on yourself and scum reads on scum. You also clutter the thread if you just post alot. Let me specify. Post quality as often as you can. That means reread the thread and build good cases. One liners don't do much good. Cases with multiple quotes and a few sentences of explanation per quote are good (most of the time). Also, USE YOUR COACHES TOWN. Thrawn pmed Hapa over 50 times last game and he had the best town performance. That isn't a coincidence. @Kush I don't like the way you are starting off this game kush. It's eerily similar as last game when you were mafia. You mention you're deathless streak, nk, and your scummy meta without anyone bringing it up. You should know that I most likely know you're trends better than anyone else in this game. The only difference between this game and last is that you have engaged in a flame war with Darth this game, which is unhelpful to our town. FOS Kush @everyone One more thing: Feel free to accuse and build cases on anyone you want for the first 24 hours. However, let's start tunneling for the second 24 hours. Also, I would like everyone to start considering a lurker (in your head) once we hit the second 24 hours as a backup. If we get close to the lynch deadline, and there are no scummy candidates, feel free to post a good case on which lurker would be the best candidate. First of all, his "I want town to win!!" post telling town to use their coaches. He then FoS's Kush, due to the fact that he's playing a similar game as the one he was scum. He says that DP + kush flame war is bad for the town, but doesn't attack Darthpunk, probably because he finds kush to be more scummy looking. Now, from a townie perspective, what does debear want? Information in order to lynch kush, as he pointed a FOS mostly based on a meta read. But suddenly, towards darthpunk: snip --You could also say that you are too convinced in your reasons. What I am cautious of at this point is that you stated directly before the game that you were after kush if he plays like he has in his past 3 games. I feel like that may be clouding your judgement in this situation. Our main goal is to lynch mafia. Yes, kush has said some scummy things. However, I'm not gonna go around parading this early saying "kush is scum. Kush is scum. OMFG". Also, let the man defend himself instead of trying to rally everyone active behind your cause so early. If he is scummy, the votes will come. He is defensive towards kush. That's not how townies think. While I agree that DP is a bit overboard on kush, I don't agree that he failed to give arguments as to why he thinks that is so. A townie with a FOS on someone will want to deal with the arguments first. He doesn't do that, and suddenly becomes defensive on Kush. He says, later: I'm not defending him as much as I'm trying to tell you that you are going overboard right now. You don't have to rush in annointing him scum. He is more bothered by DPs certainty than by his actual arguments. Inconsistency #1. He then comes up with two cases. One against me, and one against Djoref: @Boson + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 09:10 Z-BosoN wrote: Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 08:43 DarthPunk wrote: It is not impossible to find scum on the first day. Policy lynches get you no info, you are most likely going to hit a townie, and you end up in the same position the next day minus 2 town. @Djodref your 'day plan' is unnecessary. Scum hunt, vote for your top scum read and everything else will fall into place. After LVII I'm rather liking the idea of policy lynches, in extreme cases. Killing lurkers in a lurker-infested town, for example, is something I'm inclined to agree on. If the town proves itself active, then whoever proves himself scummier will occupy the noose. Given that this is a newbie game, scums are generally more scared to post. While that is a general tendency, I don't agree with mass posters being cleared right off the bat, even if their posts seem meaningful. What I suggest in this game, is that people read. From my few games, much time is usually wasted discussing things that have not been read properly. Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 06:56 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: Cool, we're on. Pretty bad timing though, I'm off to bed and then I've got a day at uni before I can really start posting. I hope to God when I get back we've moved past the lurker policy discussion. My message to newbies: the best way for you to clear yourself is to post a lot. Don't post just for the sake of posting though, that'll make you look like scum because posting for the sake of posting is what scum do. This is a rather useless post. Newbie towns want to scumhunt. Newbie scum want to look like they are scumhunting. That =/= posting a lot but not for the sake of posting, or whatever you meant. And please tell me, what do you mean? You say you hope to have moved past the lurker discussion, and yet you are telling people to post a lot? In my eyes you are telling people not to lurk because that will make them seem scummy. It seems to me that you are indirectly stating your views on lurkers despite openly saying you don't want to talk about them. Boson, please try not to read too hard into a person's very first posts and make something out of nothing. It is pretty clear what sonic was saying. He wants newbies to post so that they don't get grouped under the lurker corral that usually follows up later. Last game, we had lurkers galore and it really messed up the town. Also, you mention that his post is useless. Now I will examine your two other posts in terms of uselessness. On September 28 2012 09:12 Z-BosoN wrote: Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 09:01 kushm4sta wrote: On September 28 2012 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: On September 28 2012 06:58 kushm4sta wrote: @sonic getting everyone's thoughts on lurker policy is important. Don't argue about it but share your views on the matter please.. No it's not. It is simply a mechanism to get the discussion going and allows scum to seem to participate and to potentially mislynch an inactive townie. Any more talk of policy will get you FoS'd. Sorry but who appointed this asshole boss? you get people's thoughts on lurker policy, so you can catch them deviating from it later and question them about it. And why are you that scared of a FOS? A one-liner. A question that really doesn't accomplish anything. In other words, a useless post. Also, your next post doesn't address his response although he responded right after and you posted within 30 minutes of his response in a pretty light thread. On September 28 2012 09:43 Z-BosoN wrote: @DP Saying we will lynch lurkers is one thing. Deciding whether a lurker should die later at day two is another. What I said is I'm inclined to lynch a lurker if there aren't better choices, not that we will 100% lynch a lurker. @Stutters I'd like to see more posts from you. In XXIV you showed you were capable of making decent posts as town, so I encourage you to post eve more here. @kush What's your view on darthpunk? You said you don't like his coldness, but you don't like it in a "he's scum" sort of way? Yet again, nothing of substance here. You go more in depth about semantics (is that the right word I'm looking for?) about lynching lurkers and lynching lurkers at day two. Second, you call out stutters, who has already been warned by others and most likely the mods for no reason this early in the game. Finally, two sentences, two questions going on about the exact wording of kush's statements. It sounded like before the game you had stated that you have played in multiple games. Is that true? For someone who is telling other people to not post useless posts, you aren't doing a good job of it yourself. Looks more like you are trying to just be active while off the radar. In other words, you are a semi-active lurker who has bad post quality. Sounds like characteristics of a certain alignment. @Djoref + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 08:51 Djodref wrote: @Darthpunk Nevermind you look just more confident to get a scum on D1 than me. Regarding my plan, I think we need general directions to follow because of the majority lynch. It is a way to gather everybody around 2-3 suspicious players and secure a lynch. I'm assuming everyone agree on a no-lynch to be stupid. Djoref, I don't like that statement at all. That's the second post you bring up about the likelihood of lynching a townie d1. As town, you should never have that mentality. I would probably less likely to bring this up if you were a total nooby. However, you said you "know Kush's meta" which means you have some decent understanding of the game for a noob. By saying this, it seems that you are setting yourself an excuse to be indecisive later in the day when the lynch voting comes around. Alone, it isn't much. However, your other posts don't help. On September 28 2012 08:44 Djodref wrote: @Darthpunk Considering that we are likely to lynch a town on D1, don't you think it's a lesser wrong to get rid of someone inactive ? Inactivity means no scumhunt and room to hide for the mafia... After playing mafia last game, I feel like heavy lurking is a bad play for mafia. It puts too much pressure on you are as a scum. Instead, posting lightly without much substance is more mafia indicative. Yet again, I feel you are just looking like you are contributing without saying much. Especially when you already covered your thoughts in a previous post. On September 28 2012 08:36 Djodref wrote: Hello everybody ! About me This is my first game ever on forum but I've been playing on SC2mafia and also irl. But I've been lurking on the TL Mafia forum for a while (so I know your meta kush^^) and I decided to join this newbie game. I'm also a French guy and I live in Korea so my english is not on top and it's going to ne difficult for me to be around at deadline (5.00 am KST). Lurker policy From the games I've seen, unless you have a golden scumslip on d1, it's very difficult to lynch a scum the very first day. So I have no problem ending up voting for the most suspicious lurker at the end of the day. I define most suspicious lurker as a semi-lurker just trying to blend in. Day Plan I don't think to be able to be around for the first deadline so I would like to propose a day plan to secure a lynch as we are using a majority vote. First 24 hours to find lynch candidates while scumhunting and next 20 hours to decide who is the scummiest. Last 4 hours to consolidate the vote or switch to a lurker. Please discuss Notice how you are just repeating points? It isn't helpful to us. Next post On September 28 2012 11:09 Djodref wrote: @Kush Was it also a joke ? How can you be so sure you are not going to be NKed ? A two sentence, two question post. I don't like these. They are worthless. Also, this question came quite a bit later after darthpunk already was asking questions about joking. You seem to be sheeping onto darth's case against kush. On September 28 2012 11:53 Djodref wrote: Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 11:22 kushm4sta wrote: Because the most active townie is tunneling me? I would also like to hear you explanations about this specific part. I don't have a read on Darth on the moment considering he has only been hard tunneling you. As you said yourself you have a scummy meta so you are an easy target for early game to put pressure on. So what makes him so much town ? Yet again, this post is just repeating what darth is saying. Another question. I don't like this. Your early posts are indicative of a semi-active scum. Sheeping, question posts, and rehashing things already said multiple times. Notice the similarity between the two. He attacks us for asking questions (later on denies that they provide any discussion whatsoever), and falls into the same "semi-active lurker" category he's sniffing about. I will ignore the quality of his arguments, which I personally think are horrible, and will look more towards their similarity. From his case against me: A one-liner. A question that really doesn't accomplish anything. In other words, a useless post. Also, your next post doesn't address his response although he responded right after and you posted within 30 minutes of his response in a pretty light thread. For someone who is telling other people to not post useless posts, you aren't doing a good job of it yourself. Looks more like you are trying to just be active while off the radar. In other words, you are a semi-active lurker who has bad post quality. Sounds like characteristics of a certain alignment. From his case against Djoref: A two sentence, two question post. I don't like these. They are worthless. Also, this question came quite a bit later after darthpunk already was asking questions about joking. You seem to be sheeping onto darth's case against kush. Your early posts are indicative of a semi-active scum. Sheeping, question posts, and rehashing things already said multiple times. See the similarity, especially the bolded part? It seems that he has this "semi-active scum" cake recipe that he is using to sniff out scum. He also calls us out on our posting quality, in my case saying it is bad. I won't address his next post towards me because I've already done so, and because it doesn't increase his scumminess , as "bad cases =/= scum" (although it pisses me off). Anyways, now to the main stuff. He has a case against me and Djoref, for pretty much the same reasoning. Yet, check out what his next post on Djoref is: On September 29 2012 01:55 debears wrote: @Djoref On September 28 2012 15:22 Djodref wrote: @DarthPunk For your information, i consider the comments of debears on my posts legitimate. Let me say that I even don't like them. Currently reading the guides and older game analysis. Please pm marv for help. The coaches are great Wtf??? What ?? Where is his case against Djoref?? He goes from a scummy-looking sheep with one liners to a "townie who should pm marv for help"? Could he have forgotten that Djoref was one of his main suspicions? Inconsistency #2 Note that I no longer think that his defense of SDM is scummy. I've gone over that a few times and I admit that it can also come from a townie perspective. To summarize, here are the main inconsistencies in his play that scream to me SCUM: 1) He had a FOS on kush, then hurried on to defend him, in the manner I've shown above. I cannot fathom for the life of me having a FOS on someone and suddenly feel like I have to address an exaggeration on that person before I actually address the case. 2) He completely absolves Djoref for absolutely no reason. Townies do not throw around suspicions only to insta-drop them. 3) The other supporting arguments I've shown above. debears is SCUM! ##vote debears Hi z bozon. Inconsistencies do not make someone scum. Also it's quite funny how you are so certain this early in the game. To summarize this awesome post: your case is not strong. you are overconfident in your scumread. This one speaks for itself. I believe Kush was still trying to play seriously at this time and tried to defend his scummate. But here are also these two horrible posts Show nested quote + On September 29 2012 07:44 kushm4sta wrote: debears I saved you bro...scumteam 4 lyfe He did this one no so much after voting for himself so I guess he was in full troll mode at this point. He was still attacking Z-BosoN on his "stupid" case. I think he purely gamethrew by seeing two scums nailed so fast in this game. And this one just before admitting he was scum. Given kush character, I could imagine him giving his scum partner like this. I'll be sad if it turns out to be true they are just to much elements pointing into this direction. After this post, I had to ask him twice to give to give answers about it and here is what I get On October 01 2012 03:04 debears wrote: @Djo Show nested quote + On October 01 2012 02:09 Djodref wrote: @debears Well I would disagree about sheeping. Nobody so far has pointed out the defense you got from kush and the posts where he implies that you are his scumbuddy. So why do you think kush was defending you ? @everyone Before going to bed, I would like to state that my guess for the scumteam is now debears/alsn. I think Z-BosoN has the right of it. I'm asking for a vig shot on debears ! Also Remedy is too much of a lurker. I don't think we are going to encounter lylo or mylo situations in this game but I hope that we can get something of him before this... You have been sheeping. Look at SDM's case on you Show nested quote + On September 30 2012 22:03 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: And to clarify a couple of things about my case on Djo now that I'm up to date on the thread: 1. Latching on to others reads: As newbie scum it's really hard to make original cases. I had first hand experience Cubu and Imcasey in XXVI. The only case Imcasey could make was against our scum buddy Xatalos (that's quite easy because he knew he was scum). We had a similar situation with Debears in XXVII, at least in the beginning where the only case he could make was a defense of Thrawn, which is easy to do because he knew knew he was town (well, he flipped SK, but Debears couldn't know). 2. How can anyone buy into Kush's defense that easily? A newbie town is usually very suspcicious and it was a really silly defense, at the very best null. Using "player" and "people" sounds awkward? How isn't that an obvious lie? + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 20:12 kushm4sta wrote: 2. My supposed scumslip: huh? What else should I have called you? Player? Person? Maybe but to me those things sound awkward. Townie just seemed like the most non awkward word to use. Innocent until proven guilty. That's how we do it in America bro. As for the other lurkers, I don't find Remedy suspicious, rather the opposite although his post count is still low. Nothing really stuck out to me the same way Djo did when reading Omn's and Corrosion's filter. Also, the reason why no one is addressing kush's "scum for life" and "I saved you" posts to me is because the argument is pure WIFOM. Kush was scum. For that reason, we have to look at scum motivations 1) He was giving away his partner and throwing the game away. I believe he didn't give up on the game since he was mafia. Otherwise, he would most likely be punished for his actions in the game. Also, he is experienced. He isn't a dumb noob that would give up. He was willing to take the sack as scum last game when people started reading him as scum (although it never came to that). 2) He was attempting to set up someone who had "soft defended" him so that it would lead to a mislynch the next day.This point can be easily turned into WIFOM. Why would you believe the words of a confirmed scum? The purpose of mafia is to disrupt the the town and turn townies against each other. Number two fulfills that purpose. At last he is giving his insight on the two horrible posts containing the WIFOM bombs. But what took him so long ? He did address some other points of my cases before this one, he could have done it at this time. It's pretty simple and such answers would have been easily accepted by me. I think I had my finger on something sensible here because he didn't address them at first and also because he didn't comment on the first quoted post from kush, which is the most incriminating post in my opinion (the very first attack of kush on Z-BosoN regarding his debear's case and vote). That's the reasons why I have used the word reluctant. Don't hesitate to ask me more questions if anything is unclear | ||
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I've just checked it up and I really wanted to say reluctant. Please read carefully my previous post (included the quoted parts) because this is really a strong argument in favor of a debear lynch in my opinion. | ||
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Concerning my town read on him, I believe that you are referring to this post On October 03 2012 22:12 Djodref wrote: @SDM Last time I've checked Omni's filter, I had a slight town-read on him. I think he is a newbie town sheeping onto cases. To be honest, I think the same of the late corrosion, Remedy and Omni. I guess my filter has a little of the same flavor. So I easily sympathize with them and don't try to look more into it. I think we are too gullible and take the cases from more experienced players as the truth itself. After that we are just reading the thread with confirmation bias so it seems natural and ok to jump on bandwagons. But at the same time, we don't want to admit that we are just sheeping so it ends up looking very washy-washy. So when Omni says "I could reference Z-Boson case", I think he just has a strong town read on him and he is sheeping him. Your points are correct nevertheless and I hope they are going to push Omni to shape up and produce better posts. @Everyone This game isn't over yet ! Don't be all laid back and trust the outcome of the game to Darth, Z-BosoN and the more experienced and active players. There is still a little possibility for them to be scum and, if this is the case, then this is the doom of Newb-Lurky Ville ! As for me, I've spent too much time looking at poisonous wine glasses lately but I'll try to shape up tomorrow. Could you confirm me it is what you were thinking about ? I have no problem explaining my read on him but don't you think it would be better to wait for him to defend himself first so he cannot find some ideas in my post ? If everybody is ok with that, I'm going to prepare a post right now regarding this and I'll post it when you feel like the timing is better for it. | ||
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I was talking about Omni of course. I don't want to give him an easy way out just in case my read is totally wrong ^^ | ||
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On October 03 2012 22:12 Djodref wrote: @SDM Last time I've checked Omni's filter, I had a slight town-read on him. I think he is a newbie town sheeping onto cases. To be honest, I think the same of the late corrosion, Remedy and Omni. I guess my filter has a little of the same flavor. So I easily sympathize with them and don't try to look more into it. I think we are too gullible and take the cases from more experienced players as the truth itself. After that we are just reading the thread with confirmation bias so it seems natural and ok to jump on bandwagons. But at the same time, we don't want to admit that we are just sheeping so it ends up looking very washy-washy. So when Omni says "I could reference Z-Boson case", I think he just has a strong town read on him and he is sheeping him. Your points are correct nevertheless and I hope they are going to push Omni to shape up and produce better posts. @Everyone This game isn't over yet ! Don't be all laid back and trust the outcome of the game to Darth, Z-BosoN and the more experienced and active players. There is still a little possibility for them to be scum and, if this is the case, then this is the doom of Newb-Lurky Ville ! As for me, I've spent too much time looking at poisonous wine glasses lately but I'll try to shape up tomorrow. This post is a prepared post to explain my slight town-read on Omni while he is on the spot at the beginning of D3. I'm not going to post it as soon as finish so it might be irrelevant depending on the events in the thread. But as everyone is sleeping or dead, I think it should be ok. Before reading my post, I recommend everyone to check his filter twice with the assumption that he is scum then the assumption that he is town. It's not hard nor long and you can forge your own opinion this way. Nevertheless, here is the points in his filter which speak for him:
But he really needs to post more so... | ||
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I wanted to say that Omni he's back to a null-read after the redaction of my previous post. I'm really looking forward to see his defense and I hope to see more original cases from him in the future. I also have myself a small point against him that I would like him to comment. On September 30 2012 10:51 Omniscient4983 wrote: Chocolate chip? :D What did you do to deserve a chocolate chip ? and On October 01 2012 02:15 Omniscient4983 wrote: Show nested quote + On October 01 2012 01:29 Djodref wrote: In fact, this is what I did by checking the filter of corrosion. I read his twice with the two following assumptions :
His filter makes more sense with the second option, especially when I look at his latest posts. So I have a mild town-read on him. @Djodref That's exactly my read on him atm. He certainly seems more newbie-town than scum right now. This is why I was questioned your suspicions of him. Glad to see we can agree on this read. Trying to be nice and cute and small attempts to buddy me. What are your motivations behind this ? With the few posts you have, you should better spend them on scum-reads than town-reads. | ||
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I'm not so familiar with Shady meta but isn't he supposed to more active ? it would be interesting to see the difference between corrosion's posts and his. No one is here ? Seriously we might lose to just one maf player with all the lurkers... (in the improbable case where debears is not scum) | ||
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@debears Don't worry I'm not forgetting you <3 @Omni My vote is on you now ! ##Vote Omni | ||
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By the way while you are here, what is your take on the "reluctance" of debears ? | ||
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I'm not supportive for a battle of the nose. It would be too easy for the last scum if he is not part of the two targets. How do you feel right now about your first battle of the noose ? A | ||
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Let's keep our OMGUS war for later if you don't mind. I'm gonna prepare for this but I'm not gonna pollute the thread anymore with it. But rest assured, I have still some cards in my hands ^^ | ||
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But it could still be not so difficult to produce such a play as scum, doesn't it ? I mean that he mainly kept his eye on the newbies... | ||
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I don't blame the inactive people too much because this game is now 7 against one. Moreover I guess they trust the outcome of the game to the confirmed townies and active players. @the last scum Unless you think you can take all of us all down, I think you might better concede. Look at what your dead teammates have done to this thread with their quick deaths ! All the excitement is gone now :s | ||
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I've read your post. I'll answer all your points tomorrow if you don't mind. | ||
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Let's make the assumption that Omni is scum and let's take a look at this post. In this case, he has perfect motivations to write this post.
This is what I think of this post with a biased point of view. Now I would like Omni to explain his motivations regarding this post. | ||
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On October 05 2012 13:11 debears wrote: That is a possibility I'd consider. As town, he could simply be trying to push harder on the three he think are scum. As i said, the mafia motivation is what i see is more likely due to his filter I agree with your explanations for a townie motive for this post but out of us three, Omni only firmly believed that you were scum. He is just sheeping on Alsn (but I did it as well so...) and he even has a town-read on me ! | ||
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As promised, here are my explanations regarding your points against me. The answers are in bold font in the quote. I've spoiled it because it's not really relevant for today's discussion ^^ + Show Spoiler + On October 05 2012 01:35 debears wrote: Alright Sonic, On Djo 1) Eager to ask for town credit for asking kush a question I didn't ask Kush A question, I asked him THE question which has provoked his scumslip. Looking back at my play on D1, I think it might be the only good thing I made for the town at this time. So let me be proud of it ! But I perfectly understand now that I don't deserve town credit for this one because it was mainly Darth's pressure which has made Kush exploded. I shouldn't have brought it up but I was difficult for me to be proud in silence. 2) Playing the newbie card But I'm a newbie <3 ! On a serious note, I'm not going to use it again and take responsibility for my bad play. I hope it's going to help me improve. 3) His statement early game about confident that we would mislynch day 1, then being so confident in kush being scum later, although he agreed with kush early and then later switched to kush after all the votes were piled on. -in this case, the last mafia would not want to bus kush with lesrah being totally afk. Would make sense that mafia would wait to vote kush I was not confident in our ability to find one scum D1 because of the other games I've read on this forum. So I was more inclined to believe that we were going to mislynch. I understand now why I should never have this mentality when starting a game. Also I didn't vote for kush because I bought his explanations for his scumslip. When I came back to the thread, it was really really clear that he was mafia. I remind you that I was partying and then sleeping while kush exploded. 4) Eagerness to jump on kush's WIFOM statments on me (I find that mafia would be most likely to use the advantage that kush gave him) If you are talking about the two WIFOM bomb post, I admit that it was a mistake. I was thinking too much about these posts and they also fucked me up. At least Kush has managed to post-confuse me with great success with them. But I still think that Kush's very first post attacking Z-Boson on his case and vote against you might incriminate you. 5) Never really addressing the Alsn case (he did after the lynch but odd that he didn't do it during the lynch). All he said was that he was ok with lynching Alsn----shows signs of not caring that much I admit and I think I have already stated that I was sheeping Z-Boson multiple cases on Alsn. While reading the thread and paying particular attention at them, I was then clear for me that Alsn and you were the scumteam. I've spent all my time focusing on you and I couldn't take the time to make up my own mind about Alsn. It's not a good play but I honestly didn't have the time nor the courage to look at his filter in detail. 6) Stated that he wanted to drop discussion of me today yet continues to bring me up At least I thought I should give a sum up of my reasons for voting you. I'm sorry to have answered the questions people were asking me about this sum up. 7) Him bringing up lesrah multiple times. Seemed to worried about how lesrah would be handled I don't know how to answer to this without using an argument which could be turned into WIFOM but... Ok, if I were scum, I think I would have used PMs with the hosts to ask abouth Lesrah's whereabouts. Maybe ask about him once to blend in (even Darth asked abouth Lesrah) but I would just have brought attetion to myself by doing it multiple times. 8) Him FOS corrosion day two, then in one post unFOSing corrosion, giving a town read on corrosion, then accusing me of trying to mislynch corrosion I guess it was bad play from my part. I need to check the lurker filters once again because it was easy for me to sympathize with them and I feel I've read their filters my newbie town glasses only. 9) Asking for a vig to nk me when I could be easily lynched today. Would be a wasted bullet I'm sorry but giving the atmosphere during D2, I was totally thinking that wasting a bullet on you was a good idea, scum or town. It could have at best end the game and at worst preventing people from just voting you and going away. I bet that you are still on the scumlist of a good number of people. 10) Trying to start the newbie town read on the other noobies so that he fits in with them. For someone so active he seems quite determined to mark himself as a newbie [b]I understand that my play could give this impression. I have no excuse except that I was looking at the other newbies with biased town googles. I'm not going to give town-reads anymore. 11) This quote Show nested quote + On October 02 2012 19:22 Djodref wrote: EBWOP: I'm not going to be here for the lynch deadline so I'm not going to be able to check if I can safely stay on debears or not Notice the wording. Townies don't care about looking "safe" with their votes. The care about lynching their biggest scumread. I was meaning safe regarding of the possibility of a no-lynch. I brought this point again when I switched my vote on Alsn. That's pretty much it. All of them (if not most) can be considered newbie town mistakes. I left out some of the speculation stuff. It shouldn't play a role against him. Feel free to ask me more questions or more details about some points. | ||
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I'm glad you brought this up because I'm also feeling the same way. I also have been thinking about the possibility for Z-Boson to be the last scum even if it is really small. On a side note, I think everyone should be suspicious of everyone right now. DarthPunk reads are not golden, he might have been totally wrong about the townieness of SDM or Stutters. As far as I know, he didn't even clean Z-Boson (I'm going to check it after this post). Please think about the possibility for an elaborate bus of Kush. In this case, the players who are looking good right now are also suspicious. If you look at the direction the town is taking right now to find the last scum (one of us between Debears, Omni, RSC, Shady and me) it would be a total disaster if the last scum was one of the three confirmed townies. That's why the some posts from Z-BosoN are really irking me: - His first edition of the battle of the noose could have been a nice set up to focus all town attention on Debears and Alsn, preventing us from discussing other possible targets (I know that I have my part in this with my tunneling of Debears). I think we all remember this post but I put it in the following spoiler. + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 17:08 Z-BosoN wrote: The Battle for the Noose Alsn vs. debears The tables are set. The town remains asunder. The arguments on both sides are compelling. Each one of them wants the other dead, and only one will live to fight another day. Alsn Main posts against him. They are both mine, and I want people to read them again. The meta read I've added later is complementary to this main case as to why I think he's scummy. + Show Spoiler + On September 30 2012 17:13 Z-BosoN wrote: So I woke up a couple of hours earlier than I should have. Instead of going back to sleep, I decide to go read some filters. Sometimes I hate this game rofl. Anyways, I will agree with one thing DP said, alsn is scummy as shit. Look at his stance on kush throughout the thread. Brief timeline here: ACT I - Kush. If you are scummy like last game, I will lynch you no matter what. + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 16:54 Alsn wrote: Hey everyone, just woke up and was about to check when the game was supposed to start. Imagine my surprise when it's already started! Although looking closely the game started as I went to sleep, so I wouldn't have been able to participate until now either way. So in any case, I'm Alsn, I like logic. My previous mafia games so far amount to a single one, a game where I was NKd N1 as Vanilla Townie. My filter for that game can be found here. Other than that I have only ever played SC2 Mafia in any significant amounts(a game while using the same core rules, plays extremely different due to the time constraints and limits on discussion). If you are interested, I was also active in the /obs QT discussion of NMMXXVII which can be found here. So, with that out of the way, I read the first few posts and saw that this game continues the trend of lurker policy lynching. I agree that there needs to be pressure on scum to actually post, since without scum posts to analyse all the scumhunting in the world will almost certainly only turn up townies(due to lurkers generally being null reads). That said, I followed Tl Mafia LVII wherein there was a lot of discussion about lynching "trolly meta" players and I would like to take that one step further. Kush, while I realize that you have a posting style which by its nature is very confrontational and inflammatory, I feel that unless you actually provide some concrete analysis without using almost purely OMGUS argumentation that it is in town's best interest to just straight up lynch you right away. Simply put, unless your cases actually provide substance then I think you will just be a late game liability for town, mostly giving everyone a null read and potentially forcing people to make a town or scum read on you without having much of an idea what you are. So to sum up, kush, I can definitely forgive you for your "style" of posting but I will not under any circumstance forgive you for posting shitty content, just like I will not forgive anyone else for doing so either. Understand that I'm not singling you out as a target, I'm using your history as an example for what I consider scummy play. Now, on to actually read the thread and see if I can respond to something. ACT II - It is as we feared. Kush has defiled us all. FOS Kush + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 17:56 Alsn wrote: Wow, upon reading the thread I realise that kush has been following the exact pattern I just now specified to be the way not to play if he wanted to absolve himself in my eyes. In fact, I could go back to my initial posts to him in NMMXXV saying almost the exact same thing. As such, I think I have no choice but to cast a: FoS kushm4sta kush, in order for me to let up, I want you to stop it with your ridiculous knee-jerk play and actually point out why you think other people are scummy as opposed to why you yourself is so obviously town. While the following idiom is quite ironic in a forum game, actions speak louder than words and you defending yourself is just that, meaningless words. Start proving to everyone that you are concerned with finding scum instead of worrying about your silly streak. That being said, I think everyone else is jumping the gun here, kush is an extremely easy target to pick on, especially since he almost never seems to think before he posts. The scumslip that Darth and others pointed out can definitely be seen as damning. However, I am not inclined to agree with the following post from Darth: Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 13:46 DarthPunk wrote:I am not flaming Kush. I am legitimately scum hunting. The contrast in this situation, to the one with shiao, are so stark that there is no point even bringing it up. You will know when I am flaming when you see it, and even then it is not really that big a scum tell. I can tell the difference between Scummy town and actual scum, and it is not 'illogical' to be able to do this. Kush right now is not scummy town. He has slipped HUGELY. He is conforming to his previous scum meta. Seriously... There is no explanation for his town read on me. The only reason he would say that is if he was scum. This last part seems to overly simplify the matter to me. The only reason? I myself can see a few reasons, but I would like kush to reply himself before I comment further as I don't want to give him an easy out. I can state for the record that unless kush shapes up considerably, I'm all in favour of lynching him. Simply because him playing like his normal self would be a liability for town later on due to his inclination to just defend himself over hunting scum. However, I definitely want to give him the benefit of the doubt and allow him to actually try and show that he has town's best interest in mind. So until then, while I definitely would like everyone to share their reads on kush so far, that is not enough for D1. We need to start exploring different possibilities because if we decide to lynch kush and he flips green, spending all of D1 talking about him will put us back at square one minus two townies. I'll make another post within an hour or two on another topic as I think I've made myself perfectly clear on where I stand on kush, but right now I need breakfast. ACT III - DarthPunk, you are going overboard on kush. I find you using ridiculous logic. How are you so sure of this and that? Hm.... I'll go with you being townie, ya know, for throwing yourself out there. + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 22:03 Alsn wrote: Show nested quote + Astonishing how? I would like you to explain what's so amazingly pro-town about tunneling kush from the very beginning. I find the risks of that approach to be very high from a town perspective.On September 28 2012 21:38 DarthPunk wrote: On September 28 2012 21:31 Alsn wrote: he has pointed out that he doesn't agree with your tunneling of kush. I find it astonishing that you 'interpret' debears' post that way in context of your view of Z-Boson. The way in which you paraphrase things whilst obscuring the truth/ put your own angle on things has me very concerned. There are two scenarios: A) He flips green, and unless he during the day completely changed his character we will have almost no way of distinguishing who among the people who pushed for his lynch were scum and who were town. B) He flips scum, at this point I just don't find that likely enough to risk A) happening. That fact alone is enough for me to see that post of debears as entirely reasonable, since both of you at the time were basically calling out kush for every single post he was making(for good reason, but not if that's the only thing you are doing). + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 00:24 Alsn wrote: Show nested quote + Given the evidence so far no, I don't, and frankly I don't see why that's so hard to believe. Given his history, it should be easy to see for anyone that while he has different town and scum metas(as pointed out by Hapahauli in the obs QT of NMMXVII), his comments so far this game is entirely in line with the way he usually posts during D1. Basically just writing up whatever is on his mind. That to me doesn't really increase or decrease the chances of him flipping either way(but the setup of the game says all else being equal, 75% of the players are green, 25% are scum)On September 28 2012 22:39 DarthPunk wrote: On September 28 2012 22:03 Alsn wrote: On September 28 2012 21:38 DarthPunk wrote: Astonishing how? I would like you to explain what's so amazingly pro-town about tunneling kush from the very beginning. I find the risks of that approach to be very high from a town perspective.On September 28 2012 21:31 Alsn wrote: he has pointed out that he doesn't agree with your tunneling of kush. I find it astonishing that you 'interpret' debears' post that way in context of your view of Z-Boson. The way in which you paraphrase things whilst obscuring the truth/ put your own angle on things has me very concerned. There are two scenarios: A) He flips green, and unless he during the day completely changed his character we will have almost no way of distinguishing who among the people who pushed for his lynch were scum and who were town. B) He flips scum, at this point I just don't find that likely enough to risk A) happening. That fact alone is enough for me to see that post of debears as entirely reasonable, since both of you at the time were basically calling out kush for every single post he was making(for good reason, but not if that's the only thing you are doing). I was not just looking at Kush. I was looking at the reactions to my case on kush also, Namely debears. As far as I am concerned Kush is scum and therefore it is best for town to lynch him. I like to focus on one thing at a time. Especially when he is incredibly scummy and has SCUM SLIPPED It is a common scum hunting technique and has been recommended in Several postgames. Obviously It was not to the exclusion of all others because I am now looking at you and debears. If there was nothing to go on I would have changed tac. Turns out he is scum. So I try and get him lynched. Savvy? On September 28 2012 22:03 Alsn wrote: That fact alone is enough for me to see that post of debears as entirely reasonable, since both of you at the time were basically calling out kush for every single post he was making(for good reason, but not if that's the only thing you are doing). So you don't find Kush likely to flip scum? good to know. Z -Boson hardly called out kush. I made a case. I was not tunnelling. (but I see that is the misconception you are trying to present) If by some miracle he flips green there is still a lot of info to go off. Your premise iswrong and thus your conclusions are wrong. I was calling out Kush for good reason? and at the same time Debears was entirely reasonable in shutting that down? ##FoS ALSN Yes, you called him out for good reason because his arguments(like so many times before this game) make little to no sense. But right now the only thing I really agree actually points to him being scum is what you call his scum slip. I just do not agree with you of just how damning that statement is. The first thing that sprang to mind when I saw you quoting that was simply that townie was an odd word to use, why not use player? But a confirmed scum slip? Come on, it's not like he said something that is entirely outside the realm of possibility for a town player to say. "Townie" wouldn't be the word I'd use, but I just can't see it as that obvious a scum slip. I'll accept that you are not necessarily wrong for thinking so however. Given that there are no other developments then sure, I'll admit that there's at least a higher chance of kush being scum than a random lurker being scum. But I would really like it if we could at least try to get better odds than that. Best case scenario for me would be actually having everyone talk, present cases and opinions and if no one else presents themselves as scummy, then and only then will I roll the dice on kush. Remember, there are 3 scum, not only one. Who knows, if he's scum as you say, he might look even scummier by lynch time. The case being what it is with kush, I can see now that what you were doing wasn't tunneling per se. However, I think you are doing the very thing you are accusing me of doing where you say debears was trying to "shut down" the case against kush. Like I've said several times now, that's not at all how I interpreted it, only that we shouldn't limit ourselves to a single discussion topic which at the time I felt debears was trying to suggest. Something that I happen to agree with. Show nested quote + This statement makes little sense to me. You say you were not tunneling, which I can now appreciate as probably true, but up until recently was not clear at all to me(and probably not to anyone else either). You had made quite a lot of posts in a row with kush as the only topic, as well as trying to convince others in the thread that he absolutely, 100%, no doubt whatsoever must be scum. I didn't find it unreasonable that someone would point that fact out to you. My "premise" was simply that if I find an argument reasonable, someone else trying to poke holes in that argument might not have the same motivations as myself, thus they are suspicious.On September 28 2012 22:39 DarthPunk wrote:I made a case. I was not tunnelling. (but I see that is the misconception you are trying to present) If by some miracle he flips green there is still a lot of info to go off. Your premise iswrong and thus your conclusions are wrong. The bolded line is ridiculous however, especially in context with the sentence before it. What makes you so sure that we would have "a lot of info to go off" in the case of everyone tunneling kush and us lynching him? My A) vs. B) scenario that you are referring to was dependent on the hypothetical scenario of everyone tunneling kush(which I already explained seemed to be where things were going at the time). I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and say that you misunderstood what I was trying to say instead of deliberately using a red herring to try and discredit me. With that in mind, based on your willingness to put yourself out there, I have a slight town read on you. INTERLUDE --- kush goes ape shit. Ravages town with his treachery. Denies every chance he has to be saved, and wails incessantly. The ACT I prophecy was correct. However... ACT IV - It is as I feared. Everyone is voting for kush with little discussion. I dislike this lynch. I'm ok with lynching kush, but I wanna lynch my biggest scum read. You know, the one I don't have. Also, I think that scum wouldn't just go ahead and bus. You know, they would probably most likely trying to find another solution other than bussing. You know, like the thing I'm trying to do right now. + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 18:17 Alsn wrote: First, I'd like to start things with stating so far D1 has pretty much lived up to my exact nightmare scenario that I speculated about when arguing with DP yesterday. Everyone is voting kush with only very little discussion about any other topic(mainly, the debears-boson exchange). Looking at the vote count, the last official count says 7, and now corrosion added his vote for a total of 8. With myself that would be 9, the exact number of town in this game. From my point of view, unless kushm4sta, Djodref and Lesrah are the 3 scum, there are scum pushing this lynch. Given that, I'm really starting to dislike this lynch. I agree however that kush has been mostly concerned with defending himself against perceived injustice rather than actually trying to hunt scum, this still does not convince me that he is scum. Lynching scum with an overwhelming majority D1 just seems like way too improbably. Sure, if we had to fight tooth and nail to get 7 votes, I might buy it, but that's not the case. It seems to me there must be scum sheeping onto this lynch. Like I've stated before I can go along with the kush lynch, but I'd rather try and lynch my top scum read at this point and with the current developments, I see a kush lynch more as a last resort than my main scum read. Unfortunately, this argument is only available to people who have yet to vote and are town, as well as to scum since other than myself only scum are aware of my alignment. For everyone else, the "unless a, b and c are scum" argument will include me. My argument is at least enough to convince myself, so I'll be scouring the thread for the next couple of hours to see if my "gut scum reads" so far have any merit and if so push that/those case(s) instead. If it turns out that they are going nowhere, I will vote kush. But I still feel we have enough time to at least have a discussion on the topic of "just wtf is going on here?!". On September 29 2012 18:28 Alsn wrote: A quick addendum, I'm aware that scum pushing the lynch does not exonerate kush since they could be bussing him. However, given the assumption that kush is scum and there are active scum among the voters, I just find it more likely that they would try and find another solution than bussing, especially since it's D1. That's my main reason for not being convinced that kush is scum. ACT V - The resolve. I've had a vision. It is inevitable, kush must be lynched. I have realized the errors of my ways and it is imperative that kush is lynched. + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 21:15 Alsn wrote: I've been doing some soul searching and I'm starting to agree that it's not worth it to try and push any other cases right now. Mostly because my entire premise was that I was thinking it to be unlikely for kush to be scum. I realise that after trying to put into words why I think that is so, I have nothing other than the fact that I "feel" him to be town, which is a really stupid reason for absolving him. I thought I could back it up by saying he's been pressured to hard, there's no way he's responsible for not scum hunting. But in the end, I can't find a logical reason to forgive him if I exclude my own gut feeling from the equation. I think now that my best option is to hold on to whatever small reads I have(because while I have some suspicions, I don't think they are rock solid) until after the lynch is over. Because at least then, we will have more information. So for now, although my gut is screaming at me, I'll commit to voting for kush, mostly because most of what I said about BosoN has returned somewhat satisfactory answers, I really don't like the way a lot of people got away with not basically posting anything at all(I'm looking at you, Djodref, corrosion, Omniscient, RemedySC). I think that's probably what irks me the most, the thing I was most hoping would not happen, did happen. ##Vote: kushm4sta sup scum? anyone? + Show Spoiler + On October 01 2012 13:37 Z-BosoN wrote: Show nested quote + On October 01 2012 03:47 Alsn wrote: Disclaimer!+ Show Spoiler + My original post included the full spoilered quotes of their conversations. Unfortunately, TL got mad at me and said something wussy about a 100000 character post limit, pfah. For that reason, sourcing of my statements are done as links. So, like I said before, I'm working under the theory that debears and Z-BosoN are either both town, or only one of them is scum. I think this because they both committed to attacking each other very early on in the game, even before it was obvious that kush was going to be lynched. They also did not stop doing this just because kush was getting lynched, which suggests to me that either both of them are convinced that it's important that people pay attention to their case, or that one of them is and the other one is just trying to defend himself. I don't see how eliminating the possibility of us both being scum is helpful right now, unless you want to push a lynch of either of us. More importantly, if both of them were scum they would be drawing attention to themselves at the same time that their final teammate was getting torn to shreds, which I can not believe to be true. With that in mind I decided to look at their feud once again to see if there were any tells that one of them was more scummy than the other. First, the entire thing begins with Z-BosoN in my view completely misrepresenting what SDM said in order to throw a FoS on debears. This as some kind of response to debears initial suspicions of Z-BosoN found here. At this point I believe that was just Z-BosoN misreading SDM, and thus finding scumminess where there was none. But it leads to a lot of discussion and material for us to analyze, so that's all well and good, I'm afraid I might have misrepresented it at the time though, not taking the time to look at what happened properly in context. Debears then responds with this post where he says SDM's opinions on lurker policy was there for anyone to see a good 2 hours before Z-BosoN misrepresented him, and also that he thought Z-BosoN was being inconsistent himself(which he was and later admits to). Again, this is merely meant to illustrate that Z-BosoN's original case on debears was in fact weak. Debears should definitely not be considered scummy based on that alone. Then we have the following post where debears again very calmly and reasonably explains to Z-BosoN that he considers his case/FoS to be weak and OMGUS. I agree with that. So far, I'm finding myself exactly on the same side of the argument as I did then. Z-BosoN was clearly out of line in criticising debears. I don't think I'm entirely at fault for thinking he was "trying to shut him up" at around that time. This is also where I have joined the debate, making Z-BosoN reply to my own comments in between their feud, I think my original case has been analyzed to death though, so I won't mention it further. At this point both of them start to also focus on kush since this is around the time when DarthPunk had made his case against kush's behaviour and his slip. Z-BosoN had responded earlier to DP saying he isn't sold on it being a scum slip, but mostly just not liking the way kush was acting.(Source) Z-BosoN then posts his first major case against debears. In it, he attacks debears for perceived inconsistencies but looking at it closely, I find that most of the arguments Z-BosoN put forward are pretty weak. Mostly due to the fact that I found the posts that Z-BosoN are referencing in his case to be very reasonable and without any obvious scum motivation. Debears also addresses this case later on. Oh? Right. I'll save this for later. Now the kush bandwagon is in full swing, both players ask kush to shape up at different stages, Z-BosoN initially, then debears when he gets back into the thread after a 5 hour gap. I don't know if this gap is significant as it did happen during debears' primetime. Which means he probably wasn't asleep but I'm unwilling to draw any conclusions at this time simply because I have no proof one way or the other. I can't find any other reason for their posting about kush at this stage other than the fact that at this point, kush was a highly uncontroversial target, most active players in the thread at this stage are all imploring kush to shape up if he is town and for good reason. Useless paragraph. Yes he was controversial, this was AFTER DP mega-power pushed for kush. That does not mean that everyone wanted him dead. Eventually, debears responds to Z-BosoN's case against him in the following post. In this post(it and Z-BosoN's eventual response are both massive, every time I read them I find out more things that are damning/exonerating about the two of them) wtf are you talking about? he again actually makes a lot of sense to me, with the major thing I don't really buy being his 180 on Djodref. That was one of the arguments I had presented on my case against him, which you just happened to say it was weak!!! Especially since I don't really consider Djodref to have posted in a way that would suggest to me that he should be excused. In my mind all of the lurky players are still somewhat suspicious, and has been from the start, at the very best they are null reads, just dropping a line about coaches and then dropping the matter seems scummy to me. Use. Less. Also, I find the fact that debears has pretty much made no comments about anyone other than Z-BosoN and kush once the wagon was started. For all his talk about not tunnelling kush, he sure seems to be tunnelling pretty hard. Or at the very least, seems intent on defending himself more than anything else. His post with regards to the lurkers came only once Z-BosoN specifically asked him to do so. He did promise a case against me however, so I guess I'll start popping the popcorn. Finally I would like to address Z-BosoN's reply to debears final defense if I can call it that. (clicky) Here he addresses debears final post, a post which like I just pointed out says reasonable things. This all leads me to believe Z-BosoN is suffering from massive confirmation bias. He has for some reason decided that debears is scum a long time ago, and now every single argument debears makes is scummy to him. I'm inclined to think Z-BosoN is town because of this, confirmation bias isn't something scum would suffer from, since they don't need to believe anything, they know. WhaaaAAaaaAaaAaAatT? Ok, this post has so much crap in it that Ima stop right here and just answer everything at once. It is however not very helpful, because even if debears is scum, him defending himself against what I consider to be unjustified criticism is hardly something he can be blamed for. I would however like to see him post more about other players than Z-BosoN, and hopefully he will have time to do so now since Z-BosoN has at least seemingly decided to let things rest for a while, which I think can only be good for us. So to end this, I would like to put a FoS on debears not based on Z-BosoN's case, but based on the following points, as hinted at above.
So to sum this up, I'm thinking that Z-BosoN is town, his play is just too emotional and full of confirmation bias to me to suggest anything else and I do not think that he would or even could fake that. Debears might be scum, but I don't think we have enough proof to say that he is scummy enough to lynch D2, not yet anyway. In my mind he still has a path to redemption and I think we should at least give him that possibility as I'm not convinced that they can't both be town. Given that, my town reads right now amount to DarthPunk for obvious reason, Z-BosoN as stated above and SDM(mostly a feel read right now, but he has made sense from what I've seen so far) and I'm leaning slightly scummy on debears. That being said, I will probably spend the next couple of days focusing on the players that I have not mentioned in this thread. Mostly because at this point, I consider the debears vs Z-BosoN case closed unless something earth shattering happens. This was one massively deluded post. I couldn't have been any clearer on my case against debears. My case presented two main arguments, and one supporting argument that includes a bunch of shit that can feasibly come from a scum. Argument 1) His stance on kush after a direct FOS. Argument 2) His 180 on Djoref. I have made these both very clear in my case. You are acting as if I didn't bring up his 180 on Djoref. Your only "original" argument that could arguably mean something includes him being defensive. That's actually the one thing he has going for him, he's defended himself and still managed to make cases, more cases than you. I started answering this post topic by topic but quickly figured out that it had so much uselessness, so much pointlessness, and so much gibberish that I simply couldn't continue answering straight up. I get emotional when I feel someone is talking too much crap, but that does not automatically make my entire case based on emotion. In this post you've managed to: a) give me a town read based on my "emotion" and "confirmation bias" while throwing my case to shit and then actually using one of it's main arguments. b) make a weaker case against debears, in what seems to be a weakass attempt to justify your vote c) not defend yourself against one certain post I made. Are you gonna say that it's confirmation biased too? This post reeks of mafia mentality. Why? You accuse me of making weak cases based on emotion and confirmation bias. You feel the need to say that this makes me townie. You are trying to discredit me, right after I've made an entire case against you. But you don't want to make it look like you are defending a high priority target like debears, so you go ahead and try to find some other things you can say against him so it can seem like you are genuinely after him. Right afterwards you try an AtE (appeal to emotion). Show nested quote + On October 01 2012 03:55 Alsn wrote: And that took me just about 6 hours. In the end the only thing I managed to conclude was that I think we need more information. Hopefully I can find something more conclusive during the next couple of days, assuming I don't get NKd but I find that hard to believe right now. I'll just end with the fact that I think we definitely need to focus on the people who have posted very little because I suspect there are scum to be found there. I'm just a little shocked by how little scumminess I'm reading so far but that probably just means that the people I've been focusing on aren't scum, but we'll see. I'll be checking in for another couple of hours on and off but nothing major before I sleep. Basically crying about your pro-town efforts, which, ultimately, surmount to zero contribution. Also, in this post, you try to divert attention from the huge wall you've just posted, saying we should target other people who have not posted more. That is not town mentality. It shows you value very little your actually case about debears, and that you are not willing to take a stance. corrosion Show nested quote + On October 01 2012 04:59 corrosion wrote: I had a look at the cases Z-boson and Debears made against me. I thought both looked messy. I still do. Now Boson didn't jump on my post immediately, and others (Darth?)say his posting fits his town meta, so I'm going to assume that his motivation was scum hunting for now. Debears case is a huge wall of text without much actual content. I think it's suspicious. Is he trying to clutter up the thread and make chaos? I can see mafia motivation behind this. I did not make a case against you. Getting defensive? @DarthPunk I'm getting fairly busy this week, but there is one more aspect from debears that I've noticed but haven't gone over yet. His whole relation with kush is also very, very shaky. I have to go sleep, but please go control+F kush on debears filter and see what you can come up with, to see if you reach the same observations as I. At the moment, refer to my above post, Alsn is coming off as insanely scummy. He's trying very hard, it must be. In my mind I've come up with a debears/Alsn scumteam, and from what I've gathered, the latest posts give sense to this. I don't think Djodref is scum, or at least he hasn't shown it yet. He'd make a terrible day 2 lynch, imo. I still have to think whos a better day2 lynch, whether it's debears or Alsn. Gonna go sleep, gnight all. I feel that my own two posts against him were the most significant. Debears has also added how he doesn't scumhunt. I'd like to go deeper in this providing a meta-read, from his game in XXV. He was shot n1, so all his cases were made in the space of a day. First post: + Show Spoiler + On August 24 2012 11:13 Alsn wrote: @Lvdr I tend to agree that Shady is not deviating much from his town meta, but as I said earlier I don't think we can trust meta that much in a game like this, especially since many of us are not qualified enough to draw conclusions from it. With such a small sample size we are bound to make mistakes if we focus on it too much. In fact, I think it's too early to tell from a few hours of one-liners and newbie advice even if there was some good analysis to be had from it. As for yourself, I would think that as an experienced player you would be able to offer better advice to the beginners than: Show nested quote + On August 24 2012 09:20 Lvdr wrote: Get out there! Don't use your newbiness as an excuse! Given that, I feel that the following comment deserves scrutiny: Show nested quote + On August 24 2012 10:11 Lvdr wrote: New players what do you think of my claim on shady? This because this to me feels more like you are trying to make the new players do the work for you and then claim credit later on through "I made them do the analysis!". Especially since comparing meta is not something easily done during a stressful day 1 as a new player(I tried while observing XXIV, it's really confusing). So Lvdr, while I have no good reason to suspect you on anything but what I right now perceive as laziness, that could change if you don't start leading by example instead of through fingerpointing. @kushm4sta, @WeeTee: The entire point of discussion is to make people explain their thoughts and reasoning. So instead of thinking you have nothing to add, try and figure out ways to question people's motivations. Why, for example, did players call you out in the way they did? Was it to deflect? Was it to make themselves seem overly active while they in fact were not? Was there another reason such as simply trying to help you start contributing? There is a good reason for the "lynch the lurker" policy. This because it is in the towns interest to catch scum with dubious motivations or casting blame on shaky grounds and that can only happen if we force them to speak up. Thus, the worst thing you can do right now is to stay quiet and offer yourselves up to scum casting the blame on you without themselves seeming suspicious. Instead, what we presumably want to encourage are lots of backs and forths in order to have a history on who everyone suspected and when, and for what reason(the filter button on the right side of people's posts are good for seeing this). As long as you carefully think about your arguments, no self-respecting townie should have any problem with starting discussion. Things to start discussions about can be: Who seems to be promoting the town agenda? Who are the people that look the most suspicious to you? And why! Is there someone who you feel are using bad or dodgy reasons as basis for their arguments? Looking at the thread there have been a few posts since I started writing this, will read and post more in a while. Notice how he's inquisitive. Is asking around for suspicions. Quickly, he sends out his FOS (ironically, against kush): + Show Spoiler + On August 24 2012 11:33 Alsn wrote: Show nested quote + (Emphasis mine)On August 24 2012 11:02 kushm4sta wrote: Also thrawn...this dude is just appointing himself town leader with his epically long posts with quotes etc, also intiating all topics of discussion. It seems like he is trying to make himself essential so no one will suspect him. Why would anyone care as much about the minutiae of lurker policy as thrawn? Because his scum strategy is to not be a lurker and provide justication to lynch any innocents that might be lurking. I like that you are starting to contribute to the discussion. I don't, however, agree with your conclusion. If you look at the following post(long, so spoilered it): + Show Spoiler + On August 24 2012 09:34 thrawn2112 wrote: Show nested quote + On August 24 2012 09:03 Lvdr wrote: Shady this is like the third game I've played with you in the last few days. If you don't know my lurker policy you must be thick as a brick. Policy: LYNCH LURKERS. Hopefully there are no lurkers and we can vote scumreads. If it comes down to voting for a strong scumread and one of several lurkers, I'd rather go with the scumread. Being too focused on lurkers caused me to play poorly in my last game. If I make a strong case against a player I am definitely going to vote for them. Excluding that, lynching a lurker is the backup plan. Your experience of how mafia players lurk during newbie games is something I don't have so I don't share your commitment to a flat out "only lynch a lurker during D1" plan. Show nested quote + On August 24 2012 08:55 Spaghetticus wrote: @Thrawn If the worst outcome of lurking is to not get lynched, I don't see how town can possibly eventuate victorious. Lurking is an aspect of scum behaviour, or of poor play, and should be treated as such. You seem to propose it as some sort of tie breaking mechanism, but I believe this to be an over-simplification. In day 1, there will be extremely little information to go by. Lurking will almost certainly be the biggest tell as to the value/alignment of a player. I don't think that "worst outcome of lurking is to not get lynched" but I don't think that D1 is the time to do it. Of course there are always exceptions...such as the player who has 4 posts at the end of D1, he's sheeping the popular cases, and never offers any original reasoning for his votes. But yeah, hopefully lurking won't be an issue. I expect all this talk about lurker policy will help achieve that. And this disagreement isn't that big of an issue to me, because if I have a case worth lynching someone over then it should be a strong enough case to convince everyone else. Show nested quote + On August 24 2012 09:27 Shady Sands wrote: On August 24 2012 09:25 Lvdr wrote: Wait has everyone posted already? I think so. Right now I'm concerned about Kush. His post at the very best is completely useless to town. That post also caught my eye and I suggested that he comment on the current discussion but so far there's been nothing. Kush it's not too big a deal this early on but the longer you wait the worse it's going to look. In this post thrawn argues with Lvdr about the lyrker lynch policy and makes clear and concise arguments and in fact comes to the conclusion that the policy post did it's job in that it put focus on starting discussion. Something which is good for town. You then immediately jump to the conclusion that he must be scum that wants to look like town. I feel this is overly aggressive on your part and while it's entirely possible that you are just feeling attacked right now and reacting a bit emotionally, please understand that things are not personal. If you are in fact a townie trying to cast blame on someone you suspect as scum, you should use clearly articulated points with a clear explanation of the basis of your argument. So until you prove to me otherwise, I feel I must suspect you for being overly defensive about your posting. FoS kushm4sta Again, quite agressive. From there, it gets better: + Show Spoiler + On August 24 2012 11:59 Alsn wrote: Show nested quote + I've already warned you, this is not a game based on gut feeling and emotion. A statement such as "85% mafia" is something which needs a lot more evidence than a few one-liners this early into the game. You are providing a lot of controversy with very little thoughtful analysis. I ask that if you are truly town to take a good look at yourself and think. You most certainly do not have to blame someone else in order for yourself to look like less of a target. In fact, baseless accusation only lets scum attack you for being incoherent while in one fell swoop make themselves look like town-heroes. This with town having only to agree that you were playing very weirdly.On August 24 2012 11:45 kushm4sta wrote:Wow you sounded really smart about lvdr he seems fishy how he constantly shifts the focus to those he knows aren't mafia. And he does it in a very non constructive way. However you suspect me for some reason which is just wrong. If I were mafia I would be super nice and would not be aggressive or defensive in any way actually. It's because im town that I'm not afraid to act like this because I have nothing to hide. Basically I think you are mistaking "bad play" for guilt. Lvdr is 85 percent mafia in my mind though. We should lynch him. I do believe that you are simply responding in a knee-jerk fashion to our attacks against you. Take a deep breath, take a look at what you have said, and think about if you really had good reason to say the things you did. If not, simply tell us. But if you truly suspect someone, you absolutely must provide better evidence than "waaah, he called me bad!", otherwise the rest of us can't make any sense of your suspicions. Here he takes a strong stance on how mafia is not a game of emotion. Whereas in this game, he has this to say: Show nested quote + On September 29 2012 21:20 Alsn wrote: On September 29 2012 21:18 DarthPunk wrote: Get over yourself, I said I like logic, not that I don't have emotions or the capacity to be swayed by them like anyone else. 0_o "It's not that I don't have emotions or the capacity to be swayed be them like anyone else". Very, very different. Onward. + Show Spoiler + On August 24 2012 15:00 Alsn wrote: I'd just like to state the fact that among the people that have been active so far, every single one has pointed out that kushm4sta's posting quality has not been particularly stellar or helpful from town's point of view, it has sparked a lot of conversation, I also feel that we have all conveyed our feelings that in order for his posting to help town, he needs to start putting a lot more thought into his arguments. That being said, while there has been some analysis of other posters, I would love it if we could stop focusing on kushm4sta for now. This in order to make sure people who hasn't contributed much yet are grilled about it, and that we make sure there is more than a single person being attacked. I noticed that Shady Sands also completely dodged the accusations by Spaghetticus after a post claiming he had to get some work done but has been very busy on TL for the last 2,5 hours. So, in conclusion, please stop the tunnelvisioning on kushm4sta for now and let's see if we can't find something else to talk about for a while too. After all, there's a lot of time left before lynch. Tries to be proactive, something he's not done yet here. + Show Spoiler + On August 25 2012 08:36 Alsn wrote: So, right now I get the feeling that the feud between Shady and Lvdr is what is most likely to yield fruitful results, seeing as kush has been told several times over about what the situation is and what he should be doing. With that in mind, I feel I must take Lvdr's side in this. I had had a long running suspicion against Lvdr since before I went to bed and was planning on making a case against him when I woke up, this was mostly because of his general lack of content in his posts. Upon closer inspection of his filter however, while he has a lot of very short posts, to me they all seem to lead in the proper direction, often mirroring my own thoughts on the matter. Not so with Shady, the last thing he wrote of substance before I went to bed was the following:+ Show Spoiler + On August 24 2012 15:43 Shady Sands wrote:Oh :S my bad then. I'm going to say we should just do one of two things: 1) We collectively decide he's town and ignore him as a major target for the remainder of D1, move the discussion onto other folks 2) We lynch him first and get him out of the way Let's figure this out fast, before we use up the rest of D1 just talking about him. At first, I thought this was a sound argument, but upon closer inspection I get the feeling that he just wanted to be able to later on get a wagon going against kush and I'll explain why. The first option of ignoring him completely just seems too extreme. Why is this the only other option? This sounds to me as if he is trying to force everyone to conclude that only the second option is worthwhile. Also, this statement is similar to other statements made by myself and others(Shady included) earlier in the thread that we should focus on other people instead of tunneling kush, but with a subtle difference. It suggests to ignore him completely! Then he tries to stress us into making a decision fast. The argument can be made for stressing the point being a town motivated idea to spur on conversation and getting out hopeful scumslips, but he completely abandons the idea later when it does not take hold. Later on he accuses Lvdr and puts a FoS on him. That was something that I was in full agreement with before I went to bed but as the thread continued on, I no longer agree. Lvdr having a town agenda makes sense to me from the posts he has made. Letting up on kush when we all agree that it's not leading anywhere could be seen as a scum move due to everyone already having come to the same conclusion, but on the other hand doubling down on kush makes very little sense to me. The issue of the roleclaim is something I want kush to defend himself against, but until such a thing happens and we get closer to having to come to a consensus(I'll be awake from now until lynch time), I don't think kush is someone we should be focusing too much on. He absolutely must start partaking in dicussion without knee-jerk responses though! Because of this, I'm changing my read on kushm4sta to a null read, while declaring a: FoS Shady Sands This is all with the caveat that I cannot deny Shady's last point about wanting input from Weetee, myself and Spaghetticus, and I'm not entirely happy with kush's, mkfuba's and Dandel Ion's contributions so far either. Brings forth another FoS. Is more analytical. Next two posts also go ahead and extend the view on how he is proactive, how he often takes the "Guys, we should do this" or "Guys, I want to do that" stance. + Show Spoiler + On August 25 2012 13:20 Alsn wrote: Ok, I would like to take a step back and see where we are right now and what our options are. As I see it, we have 2 people pushing for actual votes. thrawn and Shady. I'm inclined to believe either story but I do find both of you to be a bit premature in your conclusions. Maybe you are just waiting for more information and just want to get the voting started, which I suppose is a fair point. Both of the proposed lynchees are being pushed due to the fact that they are playing as "bad townies". Let's disregard for the moment if they are doing so under pretenses or if they were genuinely put off balance by attacks during the early part of the day. I will state for the record that given the choice of only kush or WeeTee, I would prefer to lynch WT. Simply because the JK claim is something we should be able to confirm later on in the game. Dandel Ion, mkfuba, Lvdr and Spaghetticus. What are your feelings on this subject? Should town be ok with just picking either WeeTee or kush to lynch, or is there something else of substance to go on? From the last few posts here, I'm feeling relatively sure about thrawn being town, mostly due to the material he has produced, but also for following through on WT with what I would say is great success for his case. It should be noted however from looking at his filter, that most of his posting has been on the policy discussion early on, as well as defending people when it was highly non-controversial to do so(shady and lvdr early on, and me when WT attacked me). Shady, I'm still not entirely satisfied with your reasons for going so hard on kush, but I can't entirely disagree with your reasoning. I would like it if Lvdr came back to defend himself more against the things pointed out against him by you and others. Because while I agree with the following quote: Show nested quote + On August 25 2012 04:21 Lvdr wrote: @shady My initial 'town call' on shady was mostly in order to stimulate discussion. Yes, he did match his meta for the most part, but it was extremely early to decide that someone was already town. At this point I am pretty suspicious that he decided kush's JK claim is scummy enough to insta-vote him. Seems like textbook play from a mafia jumping on the mistakes of a newbie. ##FOS Shady And you,Lvdr, could make yourself a lot clearer on a lot of topics, Shady's criticism of you has not been entirely without merit and while I think he jumped the gun, it would help the rest of us if you could elaborate. Especially your backtrack on mkfuba who I also feel needs to get his stuff together and write something of substance. + Show Spoiler + On August 26 2012 03:21 Alsn wrote: Ok, had to take a nap for a few hours in order to be able to stay awake at lynch time, but now I'm back. Boy did things happen in those few hours! First, I would generally like to agree with spag about kush/WT as I made clear in my earlier post that I only really wanted to lynch WT if there was no other option. That being said, if I am to exclude them both as lynch targets today the cases presented so far are against Shady Sands, Lvdr and Dandel Ion. Seeing as I have already placed suspicion of my own against Shady, I absolutely understand where Spag is coming from. However, right now I'm more inclined to believe that he is overzealous, especially considering the fact that if we (mis)lynch someone else, he is one of the players that we have the most material on for analysis as outlined by Lvdr. I would like to return to the discussion we had early about lurker lynching. From what we have gathered so far, the "lurkiest"(descending from most lurky) seem to be: Dandel Ion, mkfuba, WT, kush and arguably Lvdr and Spag. I feel that Lvdr and Spag has at least provided enough thoughts of their own that they can be considered non-lurky, and mkfuba to some degree has done this as well. You all know my opinion of WT/kush resembles that of Spag. This leaves Dandel Ion as a lurky player that we don't know very much about. For this reason, I'm inclined to agree with Lvdr that Dandel Ion is a lynch that town should be able to get behind. I realize that mkfuba accusing Lvdr has merit, and I will address his concerns, but first. ##Vote Dandel Ion @mkfuba: I entirely agree with your concerns regarding Lvdr, but I find his arguments for lynching Dandel Ion compelling. I also think that a (supposed) scum Lvdr has gotten away with posting way too little motivations for his reasoning. I called him out on more than one occasion for exactly that reason. I do believe that asking him to shape up during N1/D2 would reveal his intentions however. Also, while your case against Lvdr has some merit, I feel that your own motivations could easily be seen as scummy, for these resons I cannot get behind your case just yet. @Spag: I agree with you that if you are wearing scum-tinted glasses, looking at Shady's behavior can easily be seen as scum, I need look no further than my own FoS to see that and your own case surely doesn't help me lose that suspicion. Like I said earlier in this post, I do believe we need to give him the benefit of the doubt as well however. @everyone I urge you all to listen to Spag's argument regarding WT/kush, please instead get behind one of the other cases and tell us your reasons for doing so. I would like to repeat my earlier sentiment that if the only choice we have is between kushm4sta and WeeTee, my vote will go on WeeTee. I would however like to see us come to some kind of consensus at least an hour before lynch time. 2:40 to go. Why he's a better lynch target Note the INSANE contrast he's shown this game. He's come off as a weak, insecure, non-scumhunting player. In the other game, as above, where he was town, he was an inquisitive, proactive, and unemotional townie, and even went and got shot because of it. -Here is another post that could be a really nice preparation for a few safe mislynches if he was the last scum. Please note how he accepted Stutters townieness in his exchanges with DarthPunk. He seems reluctant to do it at first but it end up in this fashion. On October 04 2012 00:54 Z-BosoN wrote: Show nested quote + On October 04 2012 00:39 DarthPunk wrote: On October 04 2012 00:32 Z-BosoN wrote: On October 04 2012 00:30 DarthPunk wrote: On October 04 2012 00:27 Z-BosoN wrote: On October 04 2012 00:20 DarthPunk wrote: On October 03 2012 23:54 Z-BosoN wrote: DP I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss stutters. I'm @ school so its hard to be useful atm, but game is leaning heavily in our favor. Like I said, rb/jail debears and we should be fine. Its a high possibility that the last scum is godfather, and that would make things a bit difficult. Medic would be wise to save me, dp or sdm. I just want the info that debears is/isnt scum! Dude he was one part of the driving force behind the kush lynch. He along with SDM were the ones to resurrect it after I gave it up as a lost hope. Also he is conforming to his town meta with his Drop posts into afk. Meh it is possible that he is scum but I find it highly unlikely. Djo and shady seems scumm as hell to me. If I survive I will make a case on them. I know what I am looking at. I would do it now but I left it to too late and it is 1 am and I have uni tomorrow ^_^ So please read their filters critically. Of course Roleblock whoever, but we don't know if we have a role blocker so we should not rely on it. Anyway. Follow SDM. That is my call if I die and you feel that you must sheep. Like I said, I wouldn't be quick to dismiss him. But if you read his kush arguments, it's also pretty much nothing new. There is such a thing as bussing, you know. The reason why I think this makes SDM town but not stutters is that SDM added new meta-related arguments, which is totally hardcore to do if he's a bussing scum, which I don't think is what happened. I seriously doubt that scum would have bussed when the case was dead in the water. DAY ONE. and been the very first to do so. Like I said not 100% but certainly not a leading candidate. or even close to being one. As far as I recall, I don't think stutters brought the case out of the water. I agree that he wouldn't make a good d3 lynch candidate, but claiming him town? No way. I just went back and reread the thread around this time. (like you could have ^_^) And Stutters is town guys. He actually did bring the case back. It was dead until stutters made 2 lengthy posts against Kush. this is before SDM's posts on kush's meta. He was also the first vote behind me. And made his vote when there were ZERO votes on kush. and against the prevailing sentiment of the thread at the time. He made his case on Kush before you had even FoS'd kush. He is a very very strong town read. along with SDM. Like I said, I'm on my cell phone In that case, then I'll have to agree that it does make him look town. So, unless someone has made some spectacular play as scum (which I doubt, more on that later) We have town reads on: SDM, DP, me, and Stutters That only leaves Shady, debears, RSC, Omni, Djodref. If we can guarantee that, and if debears isn't scum, we are in great shape Like someone above said, we should not get overconfident (as I was sad to learn in XXIV) but still -And last but not least, here he wants to go for a second battle for the noose. On October 05 2012 00:18 Z-BosoN wrote: I take RSC to be town. His posts seem genuine, despite posting less, and he's made some good points on corrosion (now shady) and omni, my two main suspicions. It seems like his townie meta, I'd like someone who's played with him to confirm. This only leaves SS and Omni, both players who attacked kush in a non-convincing manner early in day one and hopped on not too impressively on the Alsn wagon. I still have to read more carefully, but from my readings on my small-screened cell phone in class, It seems this way. SS and Omni seem like good lynch contenders for the second edition of battle for the noose What do you guys think? Does it look like he was joking in his post ? Because here is what I got after my remark on his proposition for this second edition of the battle of the noose. On October 05 2012 01:20 Z-BosoN wrote: Show nested quote + On October 05 2012 01:13 Djodref wrote: @Z-BosoN I'm not supportive for a battle of the nose. It would be too easy for the last scum if he is not part of the two targets. How do you feel right now about your first battle of the noose ? A It's just a joke, I'm not doing that shit again. I was just saying that both our friends omni and ss look like decent lynch targets right now. [joke] And my main point against Z-BosoN is that he's trying to buddy me, he keeps saying I'm cute ! [/joke] So I'm going to do this as well ##FoS Z-BosoN | ||
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Looking at today's discussion, in the case of a town Omni, this is just a golden day for the last scum ! He can just drop by, cast his vote on Omni with a good reason because it's true that he does look scummy and disappear without anyone noticing him. In my opinion, Omni is a lurker above anything else and we have yet to hear from him. With his posting habits, I doubt that he is going to have enough time to defend himself... | ||
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On October 05 2012 02:02 Z-BosoN wrote: Show nested quote + On October 05 2012 01:42 Djodref wrote: I'm off to bed guys ! I don't blame the inactive people too much because this game is now 7 against one. Moreover I guess they trust the outcome of the game to the confirmed townies and active players. @the last scum Unless you think you can take all of us all down, I think you might better concede. Look at what your dead teammates have done to this thread with their quick deaths ! All the excitement is gone now :s hm, waht? Aren't you excited to find the last scum? I don't want this game to last more than tomorrow. Pretty sure the dudes in the obs qt don't either lol hmm.. I wrote this post while assuming the last scum would be one of the lurkers. Honestly it would be pretty lame and I would hope for this game to end right now if it was the case. But it would be much funnier if the last scum was, let's say, debears ^^ or even... you ! I didn't really understand your remarks on my post. Are you confident that we can find the last scum today ? | ||
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Ok, I'll get through it. Could you be as kind as giving me the links for his previous games ? Also, you are still on my scumlist, but I would like to say that the more you post, the less I want to lynch you. Isn't it strange ? | ||
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If you don't mind, I'd like to discuss Omni's fate when he comes back to the thread and starts defending himself. At this rate, we could almost hope a modkill on him... And right now, I want to lynch debears much much more than Z-Boson. I think you have misread me. Also regarding the vote of Z-Boson during D2, I really felt that he reserved his right to vote after his "battle for the noose post". By unvoting just after this post (let the best scum survive) and voting at the end of day for the wagon of his choice, it could have been a very safe way to cast his vote, if he was scum. | ||
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I think we can have a consensus today on debears and hopefully Omni gets modkilled. What do you think about this proposition ? | ||
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##Vote Debears I'm going out now ! And also I'm happy to see some action | ||
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I'm back from the pub and I'm slightly drunk I don't think that I'm going to be able to stay awake until EOD but I'll stay around for a while because the thread is going out of control right now. Here is a list of people I want to lynch the most right now, starting to my top scumread:
I'm still convinced that debears is most likely to be the last scum. He has my vote from now on and I don't think I'm going to change it again. If I'm wrong and he is town, I also think that his flip would give us more insight of what is going on in this game, as Shady stated. Concerning Shady, I would hope more posts from him. I've also read and re-read corrosion's posts and I have still a slight town-read on him. Here comes the hard part. Why did I put a FoS on Z-Boson ? While building my cases on debears, I've been looking at kush's action in detail. I still cannot explain myself why he gave up the game in such manner. I have been WIFOMing with debears for a little while and it lead me to think that kush's explosion on D1 might be in fact part of an elaborate bus plan. So I was wondering: who would benefit the most from such a bus ? My answers were Darth of course, Z-Boson, SDM and Stutters. Maybe I'm derailing complety but with this in the back of my mind, I've been envisaging the cases where one of the confirmed townies is the last scum. But I was refraining myself because it was the conclusion of my exchanges with debears regarding kush's actions. I felt like I was lost in an ocean of WIFOM... But then Shady jumps in the thread and focuses Z-BosoN. So it reactivated my suspicions from before and I thought I had to share them with everyone. I've been thinking of a few suspicious posts of Z-BosoN and I've referenced them in the thread with my FoS post. I don't want to lynch him today, not at all. But I'm going to get more and more suspicious of him the longer this game goes. That's what I wanted to express with my FoS. @Z-Boson I really think that you are overreacting right now. It's not like you are going to get lynched today or that we cannot afford one mislynch. But I'm not afraid, please come at me ^^ On a side note, if the last scum is Omni or even Stutters, he must laugh so hard right now... | ||
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I'm not going to vote Z-Boson today. Right now, I believe debears is the last scum. But in the event that he flips town, it would be game-changing information for me. I would also like you to be more active on this thread. | ||
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I would have kept it for myself if shady hadn't bring it up because I came to this conclusion while looking at Kush's behavior. So I thought that I had just been confusing myself with WIFOM. But seeing another player coming with similar thoughts independently made me share my views on this as well. | ||
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Did you even read my latest posts explaining why I want to lynch you first ? I'm transferring to you because you always have been my top scumread. I voted on Omni in an attempt to pressure him and I'm switching back to you because it has failed. And also what would be the safest play for a scum Djo ? Don't you think I would better have just look two townies flying poo at each other ? Right now, it looks like this FoS has shift a lot on focus onto me. | ||
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Let's just assume that Omni, SS and me are town. Who is going to be your next scumread ? | ||
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Looking at the latest mod post, it makes 5 people to have a lynch. We could make sure to lynch Omni for sure, modkill or not modkill. Stutters is not going to happen. I want to lynch debears but nobody seems to want him dead anymore. Debears and Z-Boson want to lynch me. They could do it with the help of RSC and SDM. I doubt that Shady would be happy to lynch me since I've shown support of his Z-Boson case. But you need still one more vote which should come from Stutters or Omni... I don't want to go to bed and find out that I have been lynched in the morning. I'll stay around... | ||
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By the way, if you are here, can you find out who are you going to go after if Omni and me flip town today ? | ||
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Here is the trump card I was talking about: I claim cop ! I have breadcrumbed it here On September 28 2012 15:22 Djodref wrote: @DarthPunk For your information, i consider the comments of debears on my posts legitimate. Let me say that I even don't like them. Currently reading the guides and older game analysis. FLIC means COP in French. You can look it up. I have been checking Remedy N1 and Shady N2. I've breadcrumbed both intent to check and results on the following posts. I've got "Not Suspicious" on both of them. On October 01 2012 02:09 Djodref wrote: @debears Well I would disagree about sheeping. Nobody so far has pointed out the defense you got from kush and the posts where he implies that you are his scumbuddy. So why do you think kush was defending you ? @everyone Before going to bed, I would like to state that my guess for the scumteam is now debears/alsn. I think Z-BosoN has the right of it. I'm asking for a vig shot on debears ! Also Remedy is too much of a lurker. I don't think we are going to encounter lylo or mylo situations in this game but I hope that we can get something of him before this... The result if here On October 01 2012 10:03 Djodref wrote: Remedy It's good to get something from you ! Welcome back to town + Show Spoiler + @debears Thanks for finally answering my questions about the way kush treated you in his post. You seemed very reluctant to do it. On October 01 2012 03:04 debears wrote: @Djo Show nested quote + On October 01 2012 02:09 Djodref wrote: @debears Well I would disagree about sheeping. Nobody so far has pointed out the defense you got from kush and the posts where he implies that you are his scumbuddy. So why do you think kush was defending you ? @everyone Before going to bed, I would like to state that my guess for the scumteam is now debears/alsn. I think Z-BosoN has the right of it. I'm asking for a vig shot on debears ! Also Remedy is too much of a lurker. I don't think we are going to encounter lylo or mylo situations in this game but I hope that we can get something of him before this... You have been sheeping. Look at SDM's case on you Show nested quote + On September 30 2012 22:03 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: And to clarify a couple of things about my case on Djo now that I'm up to date on the thread: 1. Latching on to others reads: As newbie scum it's really hard to make original cases. I had first hand experience Cubu and Imcasey in XXVI. The only case Imcasey could make was against our scum buddy Xatalos (that's quite easy because he knew he was scum). We had a similar situation with Debears in XXVII, at least in the beginning where the only case he could make was a defense of Thrawn, which is easy to do because he knew knew he was town (well, he flipped SK, but Debears couldn't know). 2. How can anyone buy into Kush's defense that easily? A newbie town is usually very suspcicious and it was a really silly defense, at the very best null. Using "player" and "people" sounds awkward? How isn't that an obvious lie? + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 20:12 kushm4sta wrote: 2. My supposed scumslip: huh? What else should I have called you? Player? Person? Maybe but to me those things sound awkward. Townie just seemed like the most non awkward word to use. Innocent until proven guilty. That's how we do it in America bro. As for the other lurkers, I don't find Remedy suspicious, rather the opposite although his post count is still low. Nothing really stuck out to me the same way Djo did when reading Omn's and Corrosion's filter. Also, the reason why no one is addressing kush's "scum for life" and "I saved you" posts to me is because the argument is pure WIFOM. Kush was scum. For that reason, we have to look at scum motivations 1) He was giving away his partner and throwing the game away. I believe he didn't give up on the game since he was mafia. Otherwise, he would most likely be punished for his actions in the game. Also, he is experienced. He isn't a dumb noob that would give up. He was willing to take the sack as scum last game when people started reading him as scum (although it never came to that). 2) He was attempting to set up someone who had "soft defended" him so that it would lead to a mislynch the next day.This point can be easily turned into WIFOM. Why would you believe the words of a confirmed scum? The purpose of mafia is to disrupt the the town and turn townies against each other. Number two fulfills that purpose. I agree that kush defending you can be turn into a WIFOM shitfest. But what I get from kush's meta is that he let his emotions speak anyway, regardless if he is town or mafia. I think that's the reason why DarthPunk nailed him so easily. I've been looking at kush's behavior through the thread and I found that it changes after Z-BosoN's case on you. Please look carefully at the time stamps + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 05:29 Z-BosoN wrote: This is the time when Z-BosoN strongly attacks debears and vote for him in the thread. All the following posts are from kush's filter. I think he was desparate to see the game lost for mafia so fast and started to flame and troll. On September 29 2012 05:46 kushm4sta wrote: Hi z bozon. Inconsistencies do not make someone scum. Also it's quite funny how you are so certain this early in the game. To summarize this awesome post: your case is not strong. you are overconfident in your scumread. Very first reaction to Z-BosoN's vote on debears On September 29 2012 05:52 kushm4sta wrote: hi stutters . its not that I don't give a fuck about this game. its that I don't give a fuck about not making "scumslips". what questions have I dodged? To need to ask me them with a.question mark apart from the rest of your text. The only question I see are what are other examples of savvy. I can't find them on my.phone. He fought with Alsn (allison?) though. Maybe you can look into that racquetball is lame. also you are.not excused cursing. Flaming stutters On September 29 2012 05:59 kushm4sta wrote: My.top scumread after darthpenguin: haven't given it.much thought. maybe djosef because he is playing the noobs.card pretty hard. and djo guy,.if you want people.to say your name right don't make it random letters please Attacking me because my name is weird ! (This one is a joke by the way) On September 29 2012 06:22 kushm4sta wrote: Show nested quote + On September 29 2012 06:17 Z-BosoN wrote: On September 29 2012 05:59 kushm4sta wrote: My.top scumread after darthpenguin: haven't given it.much thought. maybe djosef because he is playing the noobs.card pretty hard. and djo guy,.if you want people.to say your name right don't make it random letters please Then give it more thought. kush seems scummiest honestly ##vote kush The ice on the cake And one hour later On September 29 2012 07:44 kushm4sta wrote: debears I saved you bro...scumteam 4 lyfe He think he was still heated at that time. Also I think he got blamed for it because there is an apology post from him roughly one hour later again. On September 29 2012 08:58 kushm4sta wrote: i apologize btw Honestly I would feel better if it was a WIFOM trap but I don't think so. Kush directly discredited Z-BosoN when he voted for you and at a time when he wasn't totally derailing. I'm pretty sure that's what made him go ape shit. And for Shady's check I didn't breadcrumbed it in advance because I wasn't not sure who to check. On October 04 2012 19:48 Djodref wrote: by the way is everyone afk or dead ? I'm not so familiar with Shady meta but isn't he supposed to more active ? it would be interesting to see the difference between corrosion's posts and his. No one is here ? Seriously we might lose to just one maf player with all the lurkers... (in the improbable case where debears is not scum) and result is NS as Not Suspicious I'm quite sure we have a setup with a medic, a cop and a godfather. At first I wanted to check the lurkers to clear them if needed but my results don't mean nothing I bet. | ||
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Because I was sure you were going to get lynched. I don't need to waste a check on a guy that is going to be lynched. Also I didn't want to be sniped so I was playing a bit silly on purpose. Nevertheless, I'm serious with my FoS on Z-Boson. | ||
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You can find it on Lesrah here On October 02 2012 11:23 Djodref wrote: Hello guys ! Just a quick post from work. It looks like either Alsn or debears are going to be lynched today. I'm totally fine with that because they are actually my scumteam right now. I'd prefer a debears lynch because of my cases against him so my vote is on him right now but I guess we are going to end up lynching Alsn for the following reasons:
Also DarthPunk has made an early vote him so I'm pretty sure town is gonna sheep on him at the end. But please don't do this ! Try to come out with your own decisions Nevertheless, I might need to switch my vote to secure a lynch on Alsn. If so, I'm going to do it 5 hours before the deadline when I go to bed. Also I'm seriously promising you here a better post regarding why I suspect Alsn. Now regarding corrosion, I think he is the wagon mafia is going to try to push today so please take your time to read his filter twice (not so long ) with the following glasses:
And decide for yourself See ya ! PS: I'm hoping for Lesrah to catch up quickly and on Z-Boson here (I don't use @ when I do my breadcrumbs) On October 03 2012 22:55 Djodref wrote: Z-BosoN Are you in or are you too much shacked by Alsn death ? You have a personal history with debears iirc ^^ At this point, after all the WIFOM arguments with debears, I was wondering who would benefit the most from an elaborate bus so I wanted to check Z-Boson but I gave up the idea because it was stupid. | ||
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Let's just take for granted that we have a lonely godfather left | ||
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I don't want to lynch you, I want to lynch debears <3 If Omni flips as a townie, I would say that either Z-Boson or debears is scum. But I also think that you would be in a perfect position as a scum right now. Your timing is far too perfect ! @Z-Boson I feel sorry for the efforts you put in your case but I didn't feel threatened until Stutters came back into the thread. | ||
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Given the behavior that Z-Boson has just shown and him voting me, I would like to OMGus him. But you and shady are not clean. I think town can afford a no lynch and we are going to get the info of Omni flip anyway. What do you guys think ? | ||
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##Unvote ##Vote Z-BosoN | ||
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Here is my lynch ranking right now:
My conclusion is that we should go for a no-lynch. We are not under any pressure to lynch anyone imo. Better to take more time and decide tomorrow. What do you think ? | ||
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I'm going for a no-lynch ! I'll stay awake to see the flip ##Unvote ##Vote Omni | ||
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##Unvote ##Vote Z-BosoN | ||
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##unvote ##vote debears | ||
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I'm expecting to be killed tonight ^^ Thrawn is on a killing spree by the way ! | ||
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But I think that we can get this one guys | ||
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I don't think that you could escape a lynch tomorrow ^^ | ||
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But I think that 2 blues is pretty standard So if we have a counterclaim, it's either you or the counterclaimer so we win cause we can afford one mislynch. If there is no counterclaim, it's between debears and SS. Same, we win at the end. | ||
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Do you understand why I'm saying the game is over now ? For me, SDM and RSC are definitely town. I think that everyone should agree with that. So it makes the last scum to be one of you three. With the no-kill during N1, a veteran claim makes a lot of sense, unless we have a medic claim on top of that. But I guess that a medic would have saved DP. So right now we have to choose between you and SS. With only one mislynch left for us. It is still fine. everyone Here is my take on what's going to happen. I'm dead tonight because as cop I can still provide you some info. If I'm not dead or there is no death. There is a likely to be a medic. But a medic should claim right now to seal the deal imo. In this unlikely case and only then, I would suspect Z-bo again. So you are starting D4 with RSC, SS, SDM, Z-Bo and debears. I don't know who to lynch first between SS and debears. Debears is most likely the last scum but I'm not 100 sure of it. SS is derailing some much right now that he is a liability for town. Make your own choice but be sure to lynch someone at least this time | ||
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Let's say you mislynch SS tomorrow. So at then end of D4, you have Z-Bo, RSC, SDM and debears. Z-Bo is the next to go imo because of the VET claim. Then we have a lylo with SDM, RSC and debears. I think it's a pretty easy LYLO situation ^^ The only way of winning for scum is more modkills from Thrawn. | ||
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Framer can't frame themselves in this setup. Framer or godfather, the only info we get from the results of my check is. There is at least one town between Remedy SC and Shady Sands But as we have only one scum left, this is kinda useless... The only thing I could hope for is to survive the night and get a red check, to get a 100% town confirmation on both of you. But it is not going to happen imo. By the way, I would like to have your input on whom I should check tonight ? Meanwhile, I'm going to look carefully at SDM and RSC filters again. | ||
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I'm praising the hosts more such a balanced setup. I really liked the Troll Goon role On a serious note, would you agree with it ? | ||
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True enough, you are most likely to end up lynched tomorrow It's too bad I won't be here to see you dead But I would recommend that we lynch SS first if he is not coming back to his sense soon. What do you think is going to happen ? Please tell me what lylo is going to happen in case of a mislynch D4. | ||
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Yeah, I would especially like to have your input on this list. On October 06 2012 13:20 Djodref wrote: By the way, here is my take on the roles in this setup:
I'm praising the hosts more such a balanced setup. I really liked the Troll Goon role On a serious note, would you agree with it ? Please take a good look at this list and think about it calmly Then answer the following questions: Do you believe my cop claim ? If not, why ? Do you believe Z-BosoN veteran claim ? If not, why ? | ||
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On October 06 2012 13:09 debears wrote: @djo If there's mylo btw me, sdm, and rsc, something really random would have to happen. I would like sdm to address my question though. His refusal to change votes onto me was weird If you are trying to make SDM suspicious, you are doing it the wrong way. Please come with a full weak case, you scum ! I recommend town to lynch debears for this post. But SS is also a serious liability right now. The end of D3 was crazy. It was a mistake not to lynch you but it's a perfectly fine because town could afford a no-lynch. I was also thinking of a no-lynch at this time. I would also like to remind you that we almost had the cop then the veteran lynched yesterday | ||
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I would be so happy if debears is the last maf ^^ I've been tunneling him so hard... @Shady Forget Z-Boson for a while. What do you think of debears to be the last scum ? | ||
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How do you explain that there was no death on N1 ? An evil plan for Z-Bo since the start ? Or more likely, a medic ? If there is a medic, don't you agree that a medic claim would seal the game ? Why don't you want the medic to claim ? There is no jail keeper nor role blocker by the way. Nobody has ever claimed to be blocked... And lists are bad when you give your reads not when you give your take on the roles of the setup. If you don't trust Z-Boson claim, what is your guess for the setup ? What's going to happen tomorrow after I die ? | ||
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@debears SDM clearly stated that he dislikes last minute lynches and that he was ok for a no-lynch. Yet, we have pressured him onto a vote on Z-BosoN and we almost got the veteran killed. At this point, the situation was clearly fucked-up. He didn't want to get dragged in mislynches anymore I guess. The flip of Omni was enough info to get. Also he wanted to wait for a counterclaim. All of this makes sense from a town PoV. What doesn't make sense is a mafia SDM not jumping on the easiest wagon of all time for a mislynch. Do you believe that the last scum wouldn't have taken this golden opportunity not to lynch you ? Seriously debears, go find something scummy in RSC filter or concede. | ||
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So, according to you, who are the guys we should lynch tomorrow ? | ||
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I think it would be better to lynch SS first. | ||
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Look what I've just found into Shady's filter just after Alsn's lynch. Nobody has ever mentioned or imagine the possibility of a cop at this point but here comes Shady's advice: On October 03 2012 10:01 Shady Sands wrote: Alright, since Lesrah wasn't posting through D2 then that means that if debears was the other scum there was no other scum trying to stop his lynch. Hence the lack of opposition to his lynch becomes less of a town-tell to me. This, coupled with the earlier case on him (which he hasn't adequately responded to, imo) makes me view him as scum. ## Vote debears Heading out for the night. If I don't make it back by daypost, cop please check omni or remedy and remember it is possible GF is last mafia. That's all, glhf. How can he know this setup is a cop setup ? This is a big scumslip in my view. He is GF himself so he knows there is a cop somewhere around. I'll come to you with a nice complete case before the end of the night ^^ | ||
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And then a quick glance at Shady's scumhunting:
That makes the total amount of scum-hunting very close to absolutely nothing... | ||
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I assume he is the last scum here and show how his actions make sense with this hypothesis. He starts with some posts without any real content, calls out Remedy for lurking (how ironic). And then decides to attempt his first case on DarthPunk. Pretty ballsy for a newbie... Here is the case with my comments in bold fonts On September 29 2012 04:29 corrosion wrote: I'm just going to address the "fight" between Darth and Kush. I'm going to focus on Darth for now. Looking more closely into Kush's contribution is something I think should be done well ahead of lynch time. I'm actually going to start by telling about some thoughts I had after reading my role PM. I was trying to figure out what players town should be focusing on. I had obsed NMMXXVII, and came to the conclusion that it might be reasonable to go after any player except Kush. I figured that Kush was going to make a lot of posts anyway, so I was thinking that we could get a good analysis of him without any early pressure. His motivation is to shift the focus away from Kush. I've also watched a few games before ining and what I was thinking of Kush is that he was hard to analyze because of his scummy meta. So, on the contrary, I had thought of a Kush Lynch Policy rather than this "let him post without paying mind" Policy. One of the first things Darth did was to antagonize Kush: + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 08:34 DarthPunk wrote: Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 06:58 kushm4sta wrote: @sonic getting everyone's thoughts on lurker policy is important. Don't argue about it but share your views on the matter please.. No it's not. It is simply a mechanism to get the discussion going and allows scum to seem to participate and to potentially mislynch an inactive townie. Any more talk of policy will get you FoS'd. I'm thinking that this could easily be an attempt to start a fight that would result in derailing the thread. Kush responded the way I expected him to, and these two posters exchanged arguments back and forth. In the middle of this, Darth made a remark against lurkers, but quickly changed his focus back on Kush. Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 10:36 DarthPunk wrote: So is everyone just going to drop their welcome posts and then afk? I don't see why he should make this comment at this time, since it wasn't going to get looked at while there was a fight going on. His case is forced and he has to put in irrelevant stuff to make it look like there is some content in it Shortly afterwards, Kush makes his supposed scum slip. Darth jumps on it, and shortly afterwards he posts about his previous mafia games. I've watched the game where he played cop, and seen that he and Shady argued a lot on D1. So I was thinking that this seems to be Darth's town meta. But I also asked myself why he did post about his previous games at this point in time. Maybe this was all intentional. Suppose he suddenly remembered that game. He might not have wanted people to look at those games earlier, but now he realized that if he posted them he would be able to establish a town read on himself. he might have skimmed through Darth's filter to find anything that could make him suspicious I'm not sure if this is a strong case against Darth at the moment. I would like some input from the more experienced players here. If Kush hadn't made that slip, I think the derailing argument would have looked strong. Now it doesn't look so strong, because we've actually gotten new information. I'm not saying that I'm sure the scum slip is an actual slip, but if it is and it results in a succesful lynch, I think town got very lucky. Scum usually wouldn't slip in such an obvious manner. He knows his case is bs so he's protecting himself. Try to reduce the importance of Kush's scumslip as the same time. It's kind of funny because he is also slipping himself at the same time (in bold). His cases against Debears and Alsn are something that might reveal useful information, but I've not studied them closely yet. I still think that Kush seems more suspicious when everything is taken into consideration but with all the focus that has been on him, I'm sure someone else can post a decent case on him before we need to consider our first lynch. Doesn't want to commit to do the dirty job. Ask for someone else to build a case against Darth In this post he gets defensive and keeps his options open regarding Kush, then vote him giving bad reasons. On September 29 2012 07:17 corrosion wrote: Show nested quote + On September 29 2012 05:50 Z-BosoN wrote: corrosion, some issues with your post. ... You're not seeing my points in the proper context. Now maybe you think my analysis is weak. I can understand that view. I haven't played in one of these before, so I'm not really good at seeing the difference between weak arguments and strong arguments. Some of the other posters in the thread encouraged new players to post, but maybe I should have waited awhile and tried to build a really solid case. Show nested quote + Who are you more inclined to vote on and why? I can't tell by the wishy-washy tone of your post I haven't made up mind yet, so I'll be voting tomorrow. I'm thinking Kush, but I'll browse the latest developments tomorrow and see if anything has changed by then. Later in the thread, it doesn't want this to backfire at him so he gives his motivation for building a case on Darth. On September 30 2012 23:43 corrosion wrote: I'm going to explain my actions on the second part of D1. I had just made a post trying to induce Remedy to post more, so we could get a better read on him. I might have come across rude, but I wanted to get his attention. Because I hadn't posted much content myself, I decided that I was going to start writing a case on Darth that I had been thinking about doing earlier. Before saying more about the post, I'll specify that this happened after Kush's scumslip and after his explanation. When the slip was pointed out, I thought that the "townie statement" could just be implying that he had a town read on Darth. I think someone later implied that it was a contradiction because he had earlier accused Darth of being scum, but I don't find any prior statement from Kush that actually says that Darth is scum (maybe others did read something between the lines). I've read that mafia don't usually make blatant slips, so I was hesitant. Kush mentioning his streak earlier also seemed blatant. It's not really good town strategy to simulate your play from your last scum game, but with Kush I thought it might be his way of applying game theory to stay consistent no matter what role he is. Then I saw his explanation, and it didn't fit the defense I would have expected if my earlier assumption had been correct. At this point I thought that it was a good chance that Kush was scum. I did not find the use of the word "townie" natural. I guess the main reason that I didn't totally stick with that read, was this post from Darth: Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 21:23 DarthPunk wrote: On September 28 2012 21:18 Djodref wrote: @corrosion I'm actually working in Korea so I don't enjoy so much free time . But a big national holiday is coming this week end so I should be able to participate to the thread and finish to read all the guides. @everyone This also means party time ! I'm currently headed to get drunk all night so you shouldn't be hearing from me until tomorrow 12.00 pm KST. Also I'm accepting Kush explanation for calling Darth a townie but it would be better for him to refrain calling someone a townie or a scum without explanations later on... Wow. Really? That was not an explanation at all. It was a slip, and now everyone believes his weak as shit explanation. Anyway this is obviously going nowhere. And it is becoming a distraction at this point. ##Unvote ##FoS: Kush I felt like this was a strange reaction, and a somewhat bad explanation. I especially thought that the point about "everybody believes his weak as shit explanation" seemed strange because it seemed to me that only a few people had said that, and since those people might as well have been mafia I thought the reasoning for unvoting was weak. Then he goes on to FoS Alsn. This flipflopping made me uncertain of his motives, so I decided to try to make my "case" on him. The case itself has been discussed already. I'll address a few things: + Show Spoiler + "Maybe this was all intentional. Suppose he suddenly remembered that game. He might not have wanted people to look at those games earlier, but now he realized that if he posted them he would be able to establish a town read on himself." I was going to write maybe instead of suppose, but just then I remembered that indecisiveness isn't good for town. I see now that I went overboard with that paragraph, and should probably have dropped it altogether. + Show Spoiler + If Kush hadn't made that slip, I think the derailing argument would have looked strong. Now it doesn't look so strong, because we've actually gotten new information. I'm not saying that I'm sure the scum slip is an actual slip, but if it is and it results in a succesful lynch, I think town got very lucky. Scum usually wouldn't slip in such an obvious manner. When I say town would be lucky, I meant that we would be lucky that Kush made such a huge slip. It seems now that Darth did a very good job at exploiting Kush's tendencies, so it's hardly luck alone that led to a successful lynch. While writing the post, I was starting to get tired. It was getting late and it had been a long day. Instead of finishing analyzing Darth's filter, I decided to stop. I did feel the pressure to post something after my comment to Remedy, and I thought: "Fuck it. Newbies were encouraged to post, so I'll just post what I have and see what feedback I get." Voting: + Show Spoiler + On September 29 2012 21:59 corrosion wrote: Let me just state the reasons that my vote is on Kush right now: 1) I think his explanation of the slip was poor. If he had given a good explanation, I might have believed him. 2) I've been thinking about who would benefit if the result is a no-lynch. I'm thinking mafia is likely to benefit the most from a no-lynch. Right now, I think that there's more than a 25 % chance that Kush is scum. Therefore, I'm voting for him. I'm not sure if any of these points are original. I'm having trouble keeping up with the thread, because I tend to get hanged up in details. I've already explained my first point. The second point was poorly worded. Here's my thought process: I was thinking about the majority lynch, since I hadn't watched any games with this mechanism before. My thinking was that there was a reasonable chance that Kush was mafia so even if I had reason to vote on another person that I found even scummier, the wagon on that person could lead to a no-lynch. I was also unsure how the missing vote from Lesrah would factor into this. If someone needs 7 of 11 active votes to get lynched, the chance of a no-lynch would be rather big. I guess I could have asked about this, but I was unsure how that question would be interpreted. The reason I state that I think mafia would benefit from a no-lynch and my mention of 25 %, was that I was thinking that it would be a lot worse for mafia to lose a power role(a possible outcome) than for town to lose a vanilla. Kush hadn't made any attempt at claiming a blue role. 25 % is the percentage of mafia in this setup if I read correctly. This doesn't take into account my own alignment, but I figured that my earlier theory of power roles would compensate for that. I'm estimating that I was actually around 50 % certain that Kush was scum at this point in time. Here are some references of early posts regarding postin: + Show Spoiler + On September 28 2012 07:41 Stutters695 wrote: Show nested quote + On September 28 2012 07:08 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: On September 28 2012 06:58 kushm4sta wrote: @sonic getting everyone's thoughts on lurker policy is important. Don't argue about it but share your views on the matter please.. Encouraging newbie towns to post is more important than typing out the same things I've said about lurker policy in XXVI and XXVII yet again: If we don't have a good scum case (lurker or active) by late d1, we lynch the most suspicious lurker. We should obviously be looking to avoid that scenario by scum hunting. That's really all that needs to be said as far as I'm concerned. Agreed but, regrettably, there isn't really anything else to talk about this early. To second his point about townies being active, don't get intimidated if you aren't really sure how to make a case and stop posting. Long cases aren't the only way to catch scum so if you feel overwhelmed sick around and ask questions. Demand answers for things you find wrong. Even if it doesn't directly catch a scum it provides insight into both you and the person you question. Silence allows the scum to hide very easily without having to do anything. Here, Sonic and Stutters advice newbies to post. On September 28 2012 11:34 debears wrote: @Darthpunk Do you have links to all your previous games? I see validity in your points. However, I need to see how you've played before. You are coming off really strong really early. and @Kush Tunneling does not mean only looking at the people under pressure. It means that we should only post cases with substance at that point. Someone going off tangent on some stupid duck hunt with no reason and distracting the attention of the town is bad at that point. If you do feel suspicious of someone but don't have a good case, just keep it on word and save it for when evidence does come out. Here, Debears advices against posting cases that are weak ("at that point" refers to the second half of D1). So maybe I didn't pay enough attention on Debears' advice, and just thought about Stutter's post. Interestingly, this is the same post that Debears made that I overlooked when making my "previous game history" argument against Darth. Whew. I'm gonna take a little break. Psssht (Tychus quote) He says that the unvote move of Darth has irked him. But then why not including it in the initial case ? I'm pretty sure he has been looking for a reason a posteriori. And regarding the Voting part (in red), the second reason is absolutely ridiculous. At the moment when Corrosion casts his vote, the threat of a no-lynch has disappeared. Here are also one post about his town-read on Darth. On September 30 2012 05:16 corrosion wrote: Show nested quote + On September 29 2012 05:50 Z-BosoN wrote: corrosion, some issues with your post. 3) You are just rambling here, I think. I take the DP/kush exchange as being genuine, unless they are both scum and agreed to flaming each other. I don't think thta's likely, due to kush's fiery meta. I considered the possibility of both being scum early on but if both were scum, I see no reason whatsoever for Kush's scumslip. So I'm now saying that Darth is close to being confirmed town. This is something town should keep in mind during N1 and D2. It would be a spectacular bus if they did this on purpose. The only reason I can see for doing that, would be if Kush had slipped earlier in the thread. I do not think so but if someone wants to look into it, go ahead. I'm not going to spend my time on that. Darth is close to be confirmed town in his opinion but I have the impression that Corrosion would welcome gladly a case bases on an bus of Kush by Darth. Confirmed townies are indeed a pain for the mafia. I'm not going to go through the rest in detail but here is a sum-up:
I don't know what to add. I think it's pretty serious incrimination, I don't even understand how I could have a slight town-read on this guy. I never should have let my FoS down | ||
Djodref
France3332 Posts
His actions pretty much speak for themselves Please notice first how Corrosion's leaves the thread with a no-lynch vote. I think this move was advised by the mafia coach to let all options open for the replacement when he comes into the thread. So let's look at Shady's first real post. My comments are in red bold font in the spoiler. + Show Spoiler + On October 02 2012 16:21 Shady Sands wrote: So at this point I have a moderate scum read on Alsn and strong town read on Darthpunk. Picks up Alsn as a target while distancing himself from the lynch I'm still not sold on Debears yet. Every time people push him as a lynch and everyone just nods along and agrees (this is based on a cursory ready through 30+ pages of filter late at night, so pardon me if I'm totally wrong about this), I get a wierd feeling in the pit of my stomach. Why? Because scum is already down one, there is almost zero chance they'd accede easily to a second consecutive bus. So if everyone is nodding along on Debears, and scum isn't going to roll over and bus again, then, WIFOM as this reasoning is, it doesn't seem reasonable that Debears should be scum. Alsn, however, feels scummy to me. Why?
The points add nothing new. He is clearly sheeping right now (as a lot of us did). I'm quite sure he did pick Alsn over Debears because he was afraid of Alsn potential in the future of the game. All four points are not damning guilt in and of themselves. But combined, they point a pretty compelling picture of a scum Alsn. Right now he's my strongest read and as such ##Vote Alsn However, he's only a moderate scumread. Depending on what happens between now and when I check in the thread in about 16 or 17 hours, I might change my mind. Distancing himself and disappear And comes back just to vote on debears with this post On October 03 2012 10:01 Shady Sands wrote: Alright, since Lesrah wasn't posting through D2 then that means that if debears was the other scum there was no other scum trying to stop his lynch. Hence the lack of opposition to his lynch becomes less of a town-tell to me. This, coupled with the earlier case on him (which he hasn't adequately responded to, imo) makes me view him as scum. ## Vote debears Heading out for the night. If I don't make it back by daypost, cop please check omni or remedy and remember it is possible GF is last mafia. That's all, glhf. First of all, he doesn't give any kind of reasonable explanations for his vote. He is just sheeping on our previous cases on him which he was not buying yet, as he stated on his previous post. Plus, I'm sure now that I've found a serious scumslip in this post. I've checked all filters carefully and the few mentions of a cop role that I saw were referring to the game where DarthPunk was cop. Before him, nobody has ever mentioned nor imagined the possibility of a cop. At this time, he is the only one with me who know that we are playing a cop setup because he is the Godfather ! Please also notice how he wants me to check Omni or Remedy rather than Debears. He knows that Debears is town and doesn't want the cop to defend him the following day. Unfortunately, things don't go according to his plan during D3. Except me, nobody wants to lynch Debears anymore. And the focus is starting to get very close to him again (Omni and SS were the candidates for the second edition for the battle for the noose which never happened). He decided to confuse everybody by doing this On October 05 2012 14:19 Shady Sands wrote: By the way, I'm reading through the thread. Right now, my top scumread, believe it or not, is Z-Boson. His interaction with Kush D1 was just... strange (it almost feels like half of the discussion there was occurring somewhere else, like in the Scum QT), his unvote of Debears and transfer to Alsn is also wierd, and finally his constant fingerpointing without any commitment D3 fits the profile of being the very last scum trying to stay alive and set up mislynch chains over the next few cycles. ##FoS Z-Boson I fall into his evil trap and town goes scatter. We need two consecutive blue claims to avoid a mislynch, SDM brain has exploded, Z-Boson is super angry. Debears and me are running in circles. But now it is the end, the last scum is going to fall. So, Shady, how about you concede ? | ||
Djodref
France3332 Posts
So my final recommendation is to lynch Shady first. If it gets to lylo after, I would advice to lynch debears first but I'm not 100% sure. See you in the afterlife ! | ||
Djodref
France3332 Posts
I thought that votes were not taken into account during night time. ##Vote Shady | ||
Djodref
France3332 Posts
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
Lynch Shady -> GG | ||
Djodref
France3332 Posts
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Djodref
France3332 Posts
I'm a little disapointed that all my scum reads were wrong and that SDM picked me up as the cop during D3. I've learned that I shouldn't WIFOM myself into oblivion and I should scumhunt more. In this game, showing survival instinct was a good scum tell (and cop tell) but I didn't pay attention to it. I hope to improve for my next games and that I could play with you again Props to SDM for playing alone this whole time ^^ Props to debears for his patience when I was building pure WIFOM cases against him Thank you everyone ! | ||
Djodref
France3332 Posts
I was having town confirmation bias for the other newbies and scum confirmation bias for debears and Shady at the end. My conviction of deabears being scum has really dropped during D3 but I was getting lazy at this time and I didn't think through all the implications, mainly the possibility for a bus and a setup. | ||
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