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On October 02 2012 17:18 Z-BosoN wrote:
Hmm, screw sleep. School starts in about two hours anyways, I'll just sleep there.
Once again, Mafia screwing over my academic life, I really have to control my time management.
I'll just stick around discussing with whoever may be online atm.
That makes me feel bad for you man 
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@ Z- Boson. What are the aspects of my case on Debears that you disagree with?
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Also. We need to consolidate on Either Alsn or Debears. I am happy with either. Would mildly prefer a debears lynch. But I think both are scummy as shit.
So. Who are we going to Consolidate onto? Z- Boson? SDM? thoughts?
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Also. Apparently Lesrah or whoever was going to be making an appearance. Still a no show.
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On October 02 2012 18:18 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 17:26 Z-BosoN wrote:
Also, I don't understand if you are replacing Lesh or corrosion, you say one thing, mod says another.. He's replacing corrosion. link
Is lesrah getting replaced/modkilled or showing up at all?
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On October 02 2012 18:38 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 18:19 DarthPunk wrote:On October 02 2012 18:18 thrawn2112 wrote:On October 02 2012 17:26 Z-BosoN wrote:
Also, I don't understand if you are replacing Lesh or corrosion, you say one thing, mod says another.. He's replacing corrosion. link Is lesrah getting replaced/modkilled or showing up at all? He contacted me and was given a warning for D1 and was told to get in the game. If he doesn't show up by the deadline he will be modkilled, unless a replacement can be found by then.
OK. Thanks.
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Are you ok with an alsn lynch?
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K i will be around for an hour then gone till after deadline. So let's figure this business out shall we?
Can we have a vote count PLZ?
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On October 02 2012 21:03 Alsn wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 04:04 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On October 01 2012 02:36 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:
I tried to collect my thoughts regarding the Alsn case and I realized when I first commented my perception of the timeline of events was off.
On my first read through of the thread, I found Alsn being generally suspicious of everything (overall a town trait) and he had been fucking up with regards to some of the information (perhaps not what I'd expect of Alsn given what I've seen of him before, but I don't find it too weird). Alsn was pretty much a null read to me. Anyway, I went back to look at Alsn's filter.
In his first post, which happens around 11 hours after the start of the game, he makes a long ass post about his thoughts on Kush. This in itself might be suspicious to some people, but having played with Kush in XXVI and XXVII he was probably the one player I was thinking the most about who to handle pre-game so I don't find it too weird. In his next post, one hour later, he has read up on the thread and recognizes that Kush has been playing like he Alsn had been afraid he would. He FOS Kush but says he's not convinced.
Anyway, when I said I wasn't convinced of the case, I had messed up the timeline of events. I thought Alsn's posts indirectly defending Kush happened not long before Kush completely blew up. If that was the case, I would've found it weird for Kush to blow up soon after his scum buddy showed him support. It seems now that Kush blew up at a later stage when Alsn wasn't around the thread, so that nullifies the argument I thought I had against the case.
I felt it was best to put it out there because if I happen to get killed off I don't want to leave with the impression I had some well thought out objection to the Alsn case. I still need to finish reading Alsn's filter and look at the case again, but I won't have time to do it until tomorrow. So yeah, not only did this turn out not to be an argument in favor of Alsn, but the timings makes sense for him being scum. Kush’s posts are actually most reasonable when Alsn is around and he later blows up after Alsn leaves with this post: + Show Spoiler +On September 29 2012 03:50 Alsn wrote:
Would just like to say that I'm going to bed a little early today. Will be up in the morning(~12-14 hours before lynch) and making some posts and then on and off until lynch but without major "leaves of absence". Here's hoping that no one is still lurking when I wake up. This in itself isn’t necessarily incriminating but worth noting. Anyway, I’ll focus more on your reasoning for defending Kush. I don’t think it’s been fully covered and reading your filter this is something that doesn’t make sense to me. Intro: + Show Spoiler +When Alsn makes his first post Kush is taking heat from Darth. The Kush case hadn’t really been built yet, but the information is there. This is something Alsn acknowledges in his second post. On September 28 2012 17:56 Alsn wrote:
Wow, upon reading the thread I realise that kush has been following the exact pattern I just now specified to be the way not to play if he wanted to absolve himself in my eyes. The OMGUS, the aggression, the flaming, the scum slip. Despite this, he’s going back on what he just said in his first post: On September 28 2012 16:54 Alsn wrote:
So to sum up, kush, I can definitely forgive you for your "style" of posting but I will not under any circumstance forgive you for posting shitty content And instead posts: On September 28 2012 17:56 Alsn wrote:
However, I definitely want to give him the benefit of the doubt and allow him to actually try and show that he has town's best interest in mind. So until then, while I definitely would like everyone to share their reads on kush so far, that is not enough for D1. We need to start exploring different possibilities because if we decide to lynch kush and he flips green, spending all of D1 talking about him will put us back at square one minus two townies.
I'll make another post within an hour or two on another topic as I think I've made myself perfectly clear on where I stand on kush, but right now I need breakfast. So he leaves saying he’s undecided on Kush, trying to steer the discussion in a different direction and if not, him having an easier bus decision (again, not incriminating in itself, but not my main point). Your main arguments for defending Kush is 1) his meta supporting his play and 2) the scum slip not being severe. To me that’s a really weird conclusion to make. On September 29 2012 00:24 Alsn wrote:On September 28 2012 22:39 DarthPunk wrote:On September 28 2012 22:03 Alsn wrote:On September 28 2012 21:38 DarthPunk wrote:On September 28 2012 21:31 Alsn wrote:
he has pointed out that he doesn't agree with your tunneling of kush. I find it astonishing that you 'interpret' debears' post that way in context of your view of Z-Boson. The way in which you paraphrase things whilst obscuring the truth/ put your own angle on things has me very concerned. Astonishing how? I would like you to explain what's so amazingly pro-town about tunneling kush from the very beginning. I find the risks of that approach to be very high from a town perspective. There are two scenarios: A) He flips green, and unless he during the day completely changed his character we will have almost no way of distinguishing who among the people who pushed for his lynch were scum and who were town. B) He flips scum, at this point I just don't find that likely enough to risk A) happening. That fact alone is enough for me to see that post of debears as entirely reasonable, since both of you at the time were basically calling out kush for every single post he was making(for good reason, but not if that's the only thing you are doing). I was not just looking at Kush. I was looking at the reactions to my case on kush also, Namely debears. As far as I am concerned Kush is scum and therefore it is best for town to lynch him. I like to focus on one thing at a time. Especially when he is incredibly scummy and has SCUM SLIPPED It is a common scum hunting technique and has been recommended in Several postgames. Obviously It was not to the exclusion of all others because I am now looking at you and debears. If there was nothing to go on I would have changed tac. Turns out he is scum. So I try and get him lynched. Savvy? On September 28 2012 22:03 Alsn wrote:
That fact alone is enough for me to see that post of debears as entirely reasonable, since both of you at the time were basically calling out kush for every single post he was making(for good reason, but not if that's the only thing you are doing). So you don't find Kush likely to flip scum? good to know. Z -Boson hardly called out kush. I made a case. I was not tunnelling. (but I see that is the misconception you are trying to present) If by some miracle he flips green there is still a lot of info to go off. Your premise iswrong and thus your conclusions are wrong. I was calling out Kush for good reason? and at the same time Debears was entirely reasonable in shutting that down? ##FoS ALSN Given the evidence so far no, I don't, and frankly I don't see why that's so hard to believe. Given his history, it should be easy to see for anyone that while he has different town and scum metas(as pointed out by Hapahauli in the obs QT of NMMXVII), his comments so far this game is entirely in line with the way he usually posts during D1. Basically just writing up whatever is on his mind. That to me doesn't really increase or decrease the chances of him flipping either way(but the setup of the game says all else being equal, 75% of the players are green, 25% are scum) Yes, you called him out for good reason because his arguments(like so many times before this game) make little to no sense. But right now the only thing I really agree actually points to him being scum is what you call his scum slip. I just do not agree with you of just how damning that statement is. The first thing that sprang to mind when I saw you quoting that was simply that townie was an odd word to use, why not use player? But a confirmed scum slip? Come on, it's not like he said something that is entirely outside the realm of possibility for a town player to say. "Townie" wouldn't be the word I'd use, but I just can't see it as that obvious a scum slip. I'll accept that you are not necessarily wrong for thinking so however. Meta: I’m curious about this post because I disagree. I made a post later regarding how I think it didn’t match his town meta, a post you didn’t reply to (basically I think he has shown to be more aggressive, inflammatory and posted more pure crap as scum). On September 28 2012 17:56 Alsn wrote:
There is no explanation for his town read on me. The only reason he would say that is if he was scum.
This last part seems to overly simplify the matter to me. The only reason? I myself can see a few reasons, but I would like kush to reply himself before I comment further as I don't want to give him an easy out. Scum slip: Now that Kush is lynched, could you explain what those easy outs you thought of were? I’m really not seeing what easy outs you'd see for Kush straight up calling his attacker townie. Not only do I find your reasons for defending Kush weird, but to me they seem contradictory. Particularly when you claim that he is “basically just writing up whatever is on his mind” (which I think is true to a certain extent). If that’s your meta read on Kush, it would make all sense in the world that the scum slip is an actual scum slip. Typing what’s on your mind is exactly what results in a scum slip like that. So you’re using his meta to make null read on Kush's aggressive and nonsensical posts (which I disagree with) and you downplay his scum slip although it contradicts your meta read. To me this seems like slips in logic in made in order to defend Kush, a defense I now realize is both direct and indirect. Ah, right, the one you posted yesterday that I didn't have time to respond to. Let me see. I've touched on my kush reasoning already but I basically felt the same thing Shady now claims to be feeling for debears. Things were going way too easily, as such I was(in hindsight, probably wrongly) trying to find reasons for why people would try and frame kush(and whom). It didn't occur to me that scum would have bussed him without putting up much of a fight. I suppose that actually supports your own argument that he "blew up" while I wasn't there to defend him, but I would have had no intentions of doing so anyway. I only started to feel defensive for him once there were an overwhelming amount of votes against him. See my somewhat convoluted "vote argument". In hindsight I probably should have just kept that line of thinking to myself. Your final question about easy outs. At the time I objected to the supposed 100% scum slip based on the idea that he could have used "townie" as a replacement word for player. Ironically, that's the exact same explanation he used himself, which probably added to my feeling that he was getting framed. At the time I was merely giving him the benefit of the doubt though. His reasons that anything else felt awkward was pretty silly but I must have dismissed it for when I finally saw his reasons, I was in full "this is too easy" mode. And now I really don't want to explain myself any longer. I'll answer short questions, but these last few posts are my final attempts at trying to explain my reasons for acting the way I've done so far. I'll make a last attempt at finding some scum before my possible lynch, but at this point I'm afraid since most people have just been sheeping onto myself and debears, finding any might be difficult.
Th bolded is false. You were defensive towards him when it was just me pushing him.
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Hmm. I should probably consolidate onto you Alsn.
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On October 02 2012 23:48 Alsn wrote:Show nested quote +On October 02 2012 23:36 DarthPunk wrote:
Th bolded is false. You were defensive towards him when it was just me pushing him. Seriously. Like I just pointed out to someone else(I think stutters but I don't remember). Just because I say a few lines in my argument to caution against tunnelling and sheeping doesn't mean I'm defending him.
But stuff like that is exactly how you defend people as scum. You attack the argument and process of the player attacking your buddy. You don't blatantly defend them. I don't get how you don't understand this.
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And it was hardly a few lines. we had a very in depth discussion about it.
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I am consolidating onto Alsn as He has the most votes and I need to go to sleep.
Night all.
##Unvote
##Vote: Alsn
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I will vote debears if I am alive. alsn flipping town does not mean Debears is town. Although with Lesrah being red I could see scum Being a lurker. That being said I implore you to look at Shady and Djodref as they are the two other candidates that look scummiest IMO.
If I die. Sonic Death Monkey and Stutters are townie. Listen to SDM. He is smart and town and motivated.
Z - Boson leaning townie towards also.
Rest null.
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On October 03 2012 23:54 Z-BosoN wrote:
DP I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss stutters.
I'm @ school so its hard to be useful atm, but game is leaning heavily in our favor. Like I said, rb/jail debears and we should be fine. Its a high possibility that the last scum is godfather, and that would make things a bit difficult. Medic would be wise to save me, dp or sdm.
I just want the info that debears is/isnt scum!
Dude he was one part of the driving force behind the kush lynch. He along with SDM were the ones to resurrect it after I gave it up as a lost hope. Also he is conforming to his town meta with his Drop posts into afk. Meh it is possible that he is scum but I find it highly unlikely. Djo and shady seems scumm as hell to me. If I survive I will make a case on them. I know what I am looking at. I would do it now but I left it to too late and it is 1 am and I have uni tomorrow ^_^ So please read their filters critically.
Of course Roleblock whoever, but we don't know if we have a role blocker so we should not rely on it.
Anyway. Follow SDM. That is my call if I die and you feel that you must sheep.
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Also. Medic save/Jail the confirmed townie ^_^
(that's me BTW) <3
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On October 04 2012 00:24 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 23:59 Sonic Death Monkey wrote:On October 03 2012 23:35 DarthPunk wrote:
I will vote debears if I am alive. alsn flipping town does not mean Debears is town. Although with Lesrah being red I could see scum Being a lurker. That being said I implore you to look at Shady and Djodref as they are the two other candidates that look scummiest IMO. I was starting to get a town vibe from Djo but Shady, Remedy, Omni and Djo all needs to be looked into in detail. I'm having a sneaking suspicion that Omni won't be the only one who'll come off as scummy. come off as scummy I'm sure a lot of people will. Alsn, for example, did. We just gotta learn to differentiate them from townie scummy and scummy scummy 
Gah. Should have made the case today. It is there. I feel bad that I didn;t put any effort in today. Hopefully I won;t die. But i certainly don;t like my chances. Any way. sleep then school, i'll check when i get back from uni. BYE ALL <3
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On October 04 2012 00:27 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2012 00:20 DarthPunk wrote:On October 03 2012 23:54 Z-BosoN wrote:
DP I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss stutters.
I'm @ school so its hard to be useful atm, but game is leaning heavily in our favor. Like I said, rb/jail debears and we should be fine. Its a high possibility that the last scum is godfather, and that would make things a bit difficult. Medic would be wise to save me, dp or sdm.
I just want the info that debears is/isnt scum! Dude he was one part of the driving force behind the kush lynch. He along with SDM were the ones to resurrect it after I gave it up as a lost hope. Also he is conforming to his town meta with his Drop posts into afk. Meh it is possible that he is scum but I find it highly unlikely. Djo and shady seems scumm as hell to me. If I survive I will make a case on them. I know what I am looking at. I would do it now but I left it to too late and it is 1 am and I have uni tomorrow ^_^ So please read their filters critically. Of course Roleblock whoever, but we don't know if we have a role blocker so we should not rely on it. Anyway. Follow SDM. That is my call if I die and you feel that you must sheep. Like I said, I wouldn't be quick to dismiss him. But if you read his kush arguments, it's also pretty much nothing new. There is such a thing as bussing, you know. The reason why I think this makes SDM town but not stutters is that SDM added new meta-related arguments, which is totally hardcore to do if he's a bussing scum, which I don't think is what happened.
I seriously doubt that scum would have bussed when the case was dead in the water. DAY ONE. and been the very first to do so. Like I said not 100% but certainly not a leading candidate. or even close to being one.
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On October 04 2012 00:29 Z-BosoN wrote:
If someone gets saved by the medic, will they know about it?
I doubt it. Because a.) I am certain I was saved. and b.) if someone did receive that notification they would have claimed. Also we may have a jail keeper. And they 100% don't give out the info. BUT they can jail consecutively.
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On October 04 2012 00:32 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On October 04 2012 00:30 DarthPunk wrote:On October 04 2012 00:27 Z-BosoN wrote:On October 04 2012 00:20 DarthPunk wrote:On October 03 2012 23:54 Z-BosoN wrote:
DP I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss stutters.
I'm @ school so its hard to be useful atm, but game is leaning heavily in our favor. Like I said, rb/jail debears and we should be fine. Its a high possibility that the last scum is godfather, and that would make things a bit difficult. Medic would be wise to save me, dp or sdm.
I just want the info that debears is/isnt scum! Dude he was one part of the driving force behind the kush lynch. He along with SDM were the ones to resurrect it after I gave it up as a lost hope. Also he is conforming to his town meta with his Drop posts into afk. Meh it is possible that he is scum but I find it highly unlikely. Djo and shady seems scumm as hell to me. If I survive I will make a case on them. I know what I am looking at. I would do it now but I left it to too late and it is 1 am and I have uni tomorrow ^_^ So please read their filters critically. Of course Roleblock whoever, but we don't know if we have a role blocker so we should not rely on it. Anyway. Follow SDM. That is my call if I die and you feel that you must sheep. Like I said, I wouldn't be quick to dismiss him. But if you read his kush arguments, it's also pretty much nothing new. There is such a thing as bussing, you know. The reason why I think this makes SDM town but not stutters is that SDM added new meta-related arguments, which is totally hardcore to do if he's a bussing scum, which I don't think is what happened. I seriously doubt that scum would have bussed when the case was dead in the water. DAY ONE. and been the very first to do so. Like I said not 100% but certainly not a leading candidate. or even close to being one. As far as I recall, I don't think stutters brought the case out of the water. I agree that he wouldn't make a good d3 lynch candidate, but claiming him town? No way.
I just went back and reread the thread around this time. (like you could have ^_^) And Stutters is town guys.
He actually did bring the case back. It was dead until stutters made 2 lengthy posts against Kush. this is before SDM's posts on kush's meta. He was also the first vote behind me. And made his vote when there were ZERO votes on kush. and against the prevailing sentiment of the thread at the time. He made his case on Kush before you had even FoS'd kush.
He is a very very strong town read. along with SDM.
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EPT
