|
On September 28 2012 21:11 Alsn wrote:
Bleh, and now I realised that that's a pretty bad summary of what I wanted to say.
Summary of my case:
I feel that Z-BosoN is attacking people for the sake of attacking them and in a way that seems to be discouraging healthy discussion. As pointed out by my argument he seems to want debears to just shut up and not share his thoughts.
Him attacking SDM for a post obviously made just as a "Hello, let's have a nice game" type of post before heading off to bed just reinforces this idea to me that he is accusing people for dubious reasons.
So. Why have you not FoS'd debears then?
|
On September 28 2012 21:18 Djodref wrote:@corrosionI'm actually working in Korea so I don't enjoy so much free time  . But a big national holiday is coming this week end so I should be able to participate to the thread and finish to read all the guides. @everyone This also means party time ! I'm currently headed to get drunk all night so you shouldn't be hearing from me until tomorrow 12.00 pm KST. Also I'm accepting Kush explanation for calling Darth a townie but it would be better for him to refrain calling someone a townie or a scum without explanations later on...
Wow. Really? That was not an explanation at all. It was a slip, and now everyone believes his weak as shit explanation.
Anyway this is obviously going nowhere. And it is becoming a distraction at this point.
##Unvote
##FoS: Kush
|
On September 28 2012 21:23 Alsn wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 21:13 DarthPunk wrote:On September 28 2012 20:21 Alsn wrote:
you essentially say that he should have kept his mouth shut instead of calling you out Where does he 'essentially say this' Here: Show nested quote +The issue at hand is why you are bothering to defend him (and now kush) instead of letting them defend themselves. What I'm opposing here is the idea that debears did something inherently wrong in calling out Z-BosoN. It's like he's implying that SDM/kush are let off the hook by debears calling out Z-BosoN. I think Z-BosoN(or anyone else for that matter) should be perfectly capable of pointing out later that he(we) does not consider SDM/kush to be off the hook regardless of whether or not debears is accusing him of something.
No. That is not what he said. He said that debears shouldn't defend Kush and SDM. You know why? Because if they are mafia and a townie is defending them they are less inclined to defend themselves and therefore we have less to go on. Z - Boson does not say he shouldn't be called out or that people shouldn't make cases. He is calling out someone for doing something scummy. The rest is your interpretation, which is somewhat of a stretch.
Debears has done something similar. And yet you don't FoS debears.
On September 28 2012 13:24 debears wrote:
Our main goal is to lynch mafia. Yes, kush has said some scummy things. However, I'm not gonna go around parading this early saying "kush is scum. Kush is scum. OMFG".
Also, let the man defend himself instead of trying to rally everyone active behind your cause so early. If he is scummy, the votes will come.
Debears calls me out for trying to consolidate town onto my top scum read. Something which is clearly pro-town. He soft defends Kush and tries to shut down the discussion 'Until he can defend himself'
And you say Z -BoSoN tried to limit discussion??
Also your interpretation is just that. And is not one I share.
|
On September 28 2012 21:31 Alsn wrote:
he has pointed out that he doesn't agree with your tunneling of kush.
I find it astonishing that you 'interpret' debears' post that way in context of your view of Z-Boson.
The way in which you paraphrase things whilst obscuring the truth/ put your own angle on things has me very concerned.
|
On September 28 2012 22:03 Alsn wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 21:38 DarthPunk wrote:On September 28 2012 21:31 Alsn wrote:
he has pointed out that he doesn't agree with your tunneling of kush. I find it astonishing that you 'interpret' debears' post that way in context of your view of Z-Boson. The way in which you paraphrase things whilst obscuring the truth/ put your own angle on things has me very concerned. Astonishing how? I would like you to explain what's so amazingly pro-town about tunneling kush from the very beginning. I find the risks of that approach to be very high from a town perspective. There are two scenarios: A) He flips green, and unless he during the day completely changed his character we will have almost no way of distinguishing who among the people who pushed for his lynch were scum and who were town. B) He flips scum, at this point I just don't find that likely enough to risk A) happening. That fact alone is enough for me to see that post of debears as entirely reasonable, since both of you at the time were basically calling out kush for every single post he was making(for good reason, but not if that's the only thing you are doing).
I was not just looking at Kush. I was looking at the reactions to my case on kush also, Namely debears. As far as I am concerned Kush is scum and therefore it is best for town to lynch him. I like to focus on one thing at a time. Especially when he is incredibly scummy and has SCUM SLIPPED It is a common scum hunting technique and has been recommended in Several postgames. Obviously It was not to the exclusion of all others because I am now looking at you and debears. If there was nothing to go on I would have changed tac. Turns out he is scum. So I try and get him lynched. Savvy?
On September 28 2012 22:03 Alsn wrote:
That fact alone is enough for me to see that post of debears as entirely reasonable, since both of you at the time were basically calling out kush for every single post he was making(for good reason, but not if that's the only thing you are doing).
So you don't find Kush likely to flip scum? good to know. Z -Boson hardly called out kush. I made a case. I was not tunnelling. (but I see that is the misconception you are trying to present) If by some miracle he flips green there is still a lot of info to go off. Your premise iswrong and thus your conclusions are wrong.
I was calling out Kush for good reason? and at the same time Debears was entirely reasonable in shutting that down?
##FoS ALSN
|
|
|
Hi! just got back. There are some things that I need to comment on. So I will go back through the thread and address the posts that I need to address. Bear with me. Post coming shortly.
|
Addressing a few things that stood out to me.
On September 29 2012 04:29 corrosion wrote:
Darth jumps on it, and shortly afterwards he posts about his previous mafia games. I've watched the game where he played cop, and seen that he and Shady argued a lot on D1. So I was thinking that this seems to be Darth's town meta. But I also asked myself why he did post about his previous games at this point in time. Maybe this was all intentional. Suppose he suddenly remembered that game. He might not have wanted people to look at those games earlier, but now he realized that if he posted them he would be able to establish a town read on himself.
So yeah I went back through the thread to address this specifically. I was asked to post my previous mafia games. and then I did. And now that is some sort of attempt for me to use my meta to clear myself? Right.
Why I unvoted Kush
I am sure kush is scum yet I unvoted him. Why?
If you read the thread I was being accused of tunnelling kush and being anti town and anti discussion. I felt that continuing to push kush at that point was not only detrimental to the case but it would allow scum to continue to talk about me tunnelling/pushing kush and the merits of this as a stratagem.
I felt that the evidence was enough for me to be convinced and that as the discussion was being dominated about kush all the other stuff surrounding my push on him that it was best for town to shift focus temporarily. I hope you note that I still called kush scum after that point. But it was anti town to continue on that tangent at that time.
|
On September 29 2012 10:48 kushm4sta wrote:
Address my case darthpunk you are the only person I suspect.
Hmm. I wasn't going to bother because it was so bad. But now that you asked me I guess I will.
|
On September 29 2012 00:35 kushm4sta wrote:
Darthpunk
1 You ask people what they think of me, Then when they don't tell you the exact answer you want to hear, you accuse them of defending me.
What you meant was
agree with me about kush or I will FOS you.
No. This is wrong. I did not FoS people for not agreeing with me. Firstly. Both of those players had also FoS'd you. Secondly there are people who have not agreed with me who I have not looked at. I FoS'd debears for soft defending you after he FoS'd you. I Was suspicious of Alsn for completely twisting/ stretching the truth and at times straight out lying in order to Facilitate his reads. His reads form his arguments rather than his arguments forming his reads.
On September 29 2012 00:35 kushm4sta wrote:
2 Did anyone notice how I went from DEFINITELY SCUM to a "distraction" instantly and without reason? Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 21:23 DarthPunk wrote:On September 28 2012 21:18 Djodref wrote:@corrosionI'm actually working in Korea so I don't enjoy so much free time . But a big national holiday is coming this week end so I should be able to participate to the thread and finish to read all the guides. @everyone This also means party time ! I'm currently headed to get drunk all night so you shouldn't be hearing from me until tomorrow 12.00 pm KST. Also I'm accepting Kush explanation for calling Darth a townie but it would be better for him to refrain calling someone a townie or a scum without explanations later on... Wow. Really? That was not an explanation at all. It was a slip, and now everyone believes his weak as shit explanation. Anyway this is obviously going nowhere. And it is becoming a distraction at this point. ##Unvote##FoS: Kush @darthpunk
Why did you unvote me if you are certain I am scum?He explains his strategy: So why have you already FOSed 3 different people?
I already explained this 
On September 29 2012 00:35 kushm4sta wrote:3 Darth's scumstrat is not so much to flame but to provoke. Show nested quote +If there was nothing to go on I would have changed tac. Turns out he is scum. So I try and get him lynched. Savvy?
This is from the post in which he FOSes Alsn. Not even his most inflamatory statement but pay close attention to his tone in his posts. Specifically, "Savvy?" Condescending, intimidating, irritating. He wants you to get pissed.
The only one flaming is you. I am not provoking. I made a case based on evidence. You have not defended your self, you are desperately trying to turn this away from the facts and into something personal. but I don't take Mafia personally and neither should you.
On September 29 2012 00:35 kushm4sta wrote:
4 @Darthpunk at the end of newbie 26, marv said scum's biggest mistake was not nightkilling me. So your supposition that scum would never nightkill me is in itself ridiculous. It was an indirect flame, suggesting I play bad, and that's all that post was.
This was not because of your play. And continues to be irrelevant. Your whole story about bating a FoS yout 'joke posts' and the NK thing is scummy.
You are scum. Even if you are not you are a detriment to town come late game. You remind me of Bill Murray and Grush. They were a liability. I believe you are also.
|
Also @ KUSH. Who is you top scum read aside from me and why?
|
On September 29 2012 11:32 Z-BosoN wrote:
DP, did you read my exchange with him? It's pointless discussing with him.
I think it would be more productive if you would read my case on debears and see if you agree with it.
Yeah I did. But I owe him a response especially after he called me out on it.
And yes, I do find debears extremely scummy. I did almost immediately. Your case was pretty good. But I don't like the association stuff until after I see the flip.
That being said. If kush flips red. I am almost certain we have caught at least one maybe two more scum.
|
On September 29 2012 11:33 kushm4sta wrote:
he thinks your base on debears is bad.. I know you try harded on it and I'm sorry dude. Just wait he's going to think it's bad.
LOL. What is up with you man? If you are town you should request some more newbie games
|
On September 29 2012 11:41 kushm4sta wrote:Show nested quote +On September 29 2012 11:39 DarthPunk wrote:On September 29 2012 11:33 kushm4sta wrote:
he thinks your base on debears is bad.. I know you try harded on it and I'm sorry dude. Just wait he's going to think it's bad. LOL. What is up with you man? If you are town you should request some more newbie games I can't get more... mafia pros in normal games are not gonna be happy...
Sigh. If you were town you wouldn't be acting this way. Townies do anything and everything to stave off a mislynch. They desperately try and scum hunt in the time remaining. You have just QQ'd and posted a half-arsed OMGUS against me. People have asked you many times to make some reads and cases, if you are town you should have taken them. WE are not irrational people. We can change our minds. You have only steeled our resolve.
I saw your town meta in XXVI. This is not it. You are capable of pro town play. This is not it.
|
On September 29 2012 11:47 kushm4sta wrote:
Guys if I make the sickest most awesome case ever can I get back in?
You should be scum hunting to find scum. Not to bargain for your survival. Honestly....
|
On September 29 2012 12:01 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +I saw your town meta in XXVI. This is not it. You are capable of pro town play. This is not it. Are you not entertained?!?!!
Somewhat Amused, But I don't really get what you are referring to. 
|
Yeha. Now Kush is just flat out trolling.
##Vote Kush
|
On September 29 2012 12:41 Stutters695 wrote:
DarthPunk, its a joke referencing Gladiator. Actually pretty clever, I lol'd.
Anyway, until/if Kush actually decides to play, I think we should just ignore him and focus on everyone else. Between his activity and posts so far it doesn't seem like we're risking a no lynch by doing that.
Oh thanks. Looked it up. Get it now
|
On September 29 2012 13:12 debears wrote:
And @kush
I am aware of the situation. I hope we can remain friends after my comments earlier. . However, i do have 2 suspects at this point. Fortunately, i have my sam adams to wash away any doubt i have going into the next couple days.
At this point, i see you condemned with no alternative. Please though next game follow through on your pre game enthusiam. You are better than this
If you have 2 suspects. Do you want to, you know, share that info with the thread?
|
On September 29 2012 13:17 Djodref wrote:Hey, guys ! I would like to bring up something that struck me in the post of corrosion about Darth. I didn't like this post in general because it didn't match my interpretations of the early events between Kush and Darth but I understand that our views can differ. But looking back at corrosion filter, he's trying to find scummy motivation for Darth to give his links to his previous game. Check the bolded part in the spoiler. + Show Spoiler +On September 29 2012 04:29 corrosion wrote:I'm just going to address the "fight" between Darth and Kush. I'm going to focus on Darth for now. Looking more closely into Kush's contribution is something I think should be done well ahead of lynch time. I'm actually going to start by telling about some thoughts I had after reading my role PM. I was trying to figure out what players town should be focusing on. I had obsed NMMXXVII, and came to the conclusion that it might be reasonable to go after any player except Kush. I figured that Kush was going to make a lot of posts anyway, so I was thinking that we could get a good analysis of him without any early pressure. One of the first things Darth did was to antagonize Kush: + Show Spoiler +On September 28 2012 08:34 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 06:58 kushm4sta wrote:
@sonic
getting everyone's thoughts on lurker policy is important. Don't argue about it but share your views on the matter please.. No it's not. It is simply a mechanism to get the discussion going and allows scum to seem to participate and to potentially mislynch an inactive townie. Any more talk of policy will get you FoS'd. I'm thinking that this could easily be an attempt to start a fight that would result in derailing the thread. Kush responded the way I expected him to, and these two posters exchanged arguments back and forth. In the middle of this, Darth made a remark against lurkers, but quickly changed his focus back on Kush. Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 10:36 DarthPunk wrote:
So is everyone just going to drop their welcome posts and then afk? I don't see why he should make this comment at this time, since it wasn't going to get looked at while there was a fight going on. Shortly afterwards, Kush makes his supposed scum slip. Darth jumps on it, and shortly afterwards he posts about his previous mafia games. I've watched the game where he played cop, and seen that he and Shady argued a lot on D1. So I was thinking that this seems to be Darth's town meta. But I also asked myself why he did post about his previous games at this point in time. Maybe this was all intentional. Suppose he suddenly remembered that game. He might not have wanted people to look at those games earlier, but now he realized that if he posted them he would be able to establish a town read on himself. I'm not sure if this is a strong case against Darth at the moment. I would like some input from the more experienced players here. If Kush hadn't made that slip, I think the derailing argument would have looked strong. Now it doesn't look so strong, because we've actually gotten new information. I'm not saying that I'm sure the scum slip is an actual slip, but if it is and it results in a succesful lynch, I think town got very lucky. Scum usually wouldn't slip in such an obvious manner. His cases against Debears and Alsn are something that might reveal useful information, but I've not studied them closely yet. I still think that Kush seems more suspicious when everything is taken into consideration but with all the focus that has been on him, I'm sure someone else can post a decent case on him before we need to consider our first lynch. But Darth was just answering a request from debears ! + Show Spoiler +On September 28 2012 11:39 debears wrote:
As I said, I want a quick look at you first. Second, there isn't much more to add to what you said about it. It does give off the impression of extra information. I think corrosion was trying to cast scummy shadow on Darth to shift the focus on Kush. I did so by omitting/deforming some parts of the thread history. Also, he fits my definition of a semi-lurker trying to blend in. So, corrosion, until I got your explanations about this point, I got my eyes on you. ##FoS: corrosion
Nice pick up. I already posted about this, But I assume you just picked it up as you were going through the thread. I was surprised no one else seemed to catch on to this.
I would like some further elaboration on your kush vote as you have black flipped somewhat from your earlier position.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
