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On September 28 2012 14:43 debears wrote:
@darth
When did I say stop going after him? I said wait for him to respond.
You can be convinced he's scum, but you're making a huge deal out of it early in the game. multiple red texts with the word scum. Got your point.
I'm not defending him as much as I'm trying to tell you that you are going overboard right now. You don't have to rush in annointing him scum.
@z-boson
If you haven't realized yet, I played with SDM last game. I know where he stands with lurker policy. If you haven't noticed, darth doesn't like them either. Why? Cuz they usually go nowhere fast.
Why are you so focused on lurker discussion when there are other things going on?
Nice FOS btw. I make a case on you and you fail to respond to half of it.
You were soft defending him and now you are back flipping on it. You are being incredibly wishy-washy on someone whom has slipped blatantly.
I have an almost guaranteed scum day one. Then you soft defend him and post walls of text on two other people. I am not going overboard at all. Why are you trying so hard to put the brakes on this? I am not going overboard at all. That is just silly.
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Sorry for spelling errors etc. I am posting while in-between LOL que's
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##FOS: Debears
Yeah, Your entire interaction in regards to the kush case and slip is suspicious as all hell.
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@debears
I would also add that my question posts are totally legit. I want to have precisions about the points that struck me as odd in anybody's posts. But I admit they were not very original.
Nevertheless, Kush slipped by answering my question about the NK.
@Everyone
I'm going to take a stance on Kush when he explains why he thinks Darth to be town.
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@DarthPunk
For your information, i consider the comments of debears on my posts legitimate. Let me say that I even don't like them. Currently reading the guides and older game analysis.
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On September 28 2012 15:22 Djodref wrote:
@DarthPunk
For your information, i consider the comments of debears on my posts legitimate. Let me say that I even don't like them. Currently reading the guides and older game analysis.
Thats not the point. The point is we have caught scum almost certainly and debears then soft defends Kush and posts 2 cases which are far weaker. Also. Bad posting does not always equate to scum and vice versa.
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On September 28 2012 14:43 debears wrote:
@darth
When did I say stop going after him? I said wait for him to respond.
You can be convinced he's scum, but you're making a huge deal out of it early in the game. multiple red texts with the word scum. Got your point.
I'm not defending him as much as I'm trying to tell you that you are going overboard right now. You don't have to rush in annointing him scum.
@z-boson
If you haven't realized yet, I played with SDM last game. I know where he stands with lurker policy. If you haven't noticed, darth doesn't like them either. Why? Cuz they usually go nowhere fast.
Why are you so focused on lurker discussion when there are other things going on?
Nice FOS btw. I make a case on you and you fail to respond to half of it.
I don't care who you've played with. You make it a point to say your view on lurkers. You defend him for absolutely no reason, when his views implicitly contradict yours. If you were townie, I wouldn't think this to be a priority for you.
I am not focused on lurker discussion, I am focused on the inconsistency you've presented.
The issue of "Lurker policy" is not what is at hand. The issue at hand is why you are bothering to defend him (and now kush) instead of letting them defend themselves. It feels extremely forced right now, as townies are supposedly scouring the thread for blood. That's why the FOS.
Regarding your "case", it seems to me like the only think you've got going is my general usefulness. And I already said it in form of a question, but now I'll answer it more bluntly so you can't dismiss it: I am instigating discussion. Read all my posts and see if that's what I'm trying to accomplish.
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Z-Boson. What are your thoughts on Kush?
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Hey everyone, just woke up and was about to check when the game was supposed to start. Imagine my surprise when it's already started! Although looking closely the game started as I went to sleep, so I wouldn't have been able to participate until now either way.
So in any case, I'm Alsn, I like logic. My previous mafia games so far amount to a single one, a game where I was NKd N1 as Vanilla Townie. My filter for that game can be found here. Other than that I have only ever played SC2 Mafia in any significant amounts(a game while using the same core rules, plays extremely different due to the time constraints and limits on discussion). If you are interested, I was also active in the /obs QT discussion of NMMXXVII which can be found here.
So, with that out of the way, I read the first few posts and saw that this game continues the trend of lurker policy lynching. I agree that there needs to be pressure on scum to actually post, since without scum posts to analyse all the scumhunting in the world will almost certainly only turn up townies(due to lurkers generally being null reads).
That said, I followed Tl Mafia LVII wherein there was a lot of discussion about lynching "trolly meta" players and I would like to take that one step further. Kush, while I realize that you have a posting style which by its nature is very confrontational and inflammatory, I feel that unless you actually provide some concrete analysis without using almost purely OMGUS argumentation that it is in town's best interest to just straight up lynch you right away.
Simply put, unless your cases actually provide substance then I think you will just be a late game liability for town, mostly giving everyone a null read and potentially forcing people to make a town or scum read on you without having much of an idea what you are.
So to sum up, kush, I can definitely forgive you for your "style" of posting but I will not under any circumstance forgive you for posting shitty content, just like I will not forgive anyone else for doing so either. Understand that I'm not singling you out as a target, I'm using your history as an example for what I consider scummy play.
Now, on to actually read the thread and see if I can respond to something.
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Wow, upon reading the thread I realise that kush has been following the exact pattern I just now specified to be the way not to play if he wanted to absolve himself in my eyes. In fact, I could go back to my initial posts to him in NMMXXV saying almost the exact same thing. As such, I think I have no choice but to cast a:
FoS kushm4sta
kush, in order for me to let up, I want you to stop it with your ridiculous knee-jerk play and actually point out why you think other people are scummy as opposed to why you yourself is so obviously town. While the following idiom is quite ironic in a forum game, actions speak louder than words and you defending yourself is just that, meaningless words. Start proving to everyone that you are concerned with finding scum instead of worrying about your silly streak.
That being said, I think everyone else is jumping the gun here, kush is an extremely easy target to pick on, especially since he almost never seems to think before he posts. The scumslip that Darth and others pointed out can definitely be seen as damning. However, I am not inclined to agree with the following post from Darth:On September 28 2012 13:46 DarthPunk wrote:I am not flaming Kush. I am legitimately scum hunting. The contrast in this situation, to the one with shiao, are so stark that there is no point even bringing it up. You will know when I am flaming when you see it, and even then it is not really that big a scum tell. I can tell the difference between Scummy town and actual scum, and it is not 'illogical' to be able to do this. Kush right now is not scummy town. He has slipped HUGELY. He is conforming to his previous scum meta. Seriously...
There is no explanation for his town read on me. The only reason he would say that is if he was scum.
This last part seems to overly simplify the matter to me. The only reason? I myself can see a few reasons, but I would like kush to reply himself before I comment further as I don't want to give him an easy out.
I can state for the record that unless kush shapes up considerably, I'm all in favour of lynching him. Simply because him playing like his normal self would be a liability for town later on due to his inclination to just defend himself over hunting scum. However, I definitely want to give him the benefit of the doubt and allow him to actually try and show that he has town's best interest in mind. So until then, while I definitely would like everyone to share their reads on kush so far, that is not enough for D1. We need to start exploring different possibilities because if we decide to lynch kush and he flips green, spending all of D1 talking about him will put us back at square one minus two townies.
I'll make another post within an hour or two on another topic as I think I've made myself perfectly clear on where I stand on kush, but right now I need breakfast.
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On September 28 2012 15:22 Djodref wrote:
@DarthPunk
For your information, i consider the comments of debears on my posts legitimate. Let me say that I even don't like them. Currently reading the guides and older game analysis.
So you're saying that you don't like your earlier posts and agree with debears' comments? I'm pretty sure that most of the town guides advice against contentless posts. Why didn't you read the guides before starting to post? I'd think there was plenty of time to read guides before the game even started.
@Lesrah: This should be a good time for you to start posting something worthwhile. If you have anything to say, I'd like to hear it. If nothing else, that at least confirms that you're participating.
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Sup have to make this post real quick. Will read everything and post on my phone late.r
1. Why are you putting my name in red like darth? it seems like you are subliminally trying to influence people to your cause.
This is a game of logic not advertising.
2. My supposed scumslip: huh? What else should I have called you? Player? Person? Maybe but to me those things sound awkward. Townie just seemed like the most non awkward word to use.
Innocent until proven guilty. That's how we do it in America bro.
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@alsn chill i will scum hunt but atm im busy defending this douchery
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On September 28 2012 15:36 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 28 2012 14:43 debears wrote:
@darth
When did I say stop going after him? I said wait for him to respond.
You can be convinced he's scum, but you're making a huge deal out of it early in the game. multiple red texts with the word scum. Got your point.
I'm not defending him as much as I'm trying to tell you that you are going overboard right now. You don't have to rush in annointing him scum.
@z-boson
If you haven't realized yet, I played with SDM last game. I know where he stands with lurker policy. If you haven't noticed, darth doesn't like them either. Why? Cuz they usually go nowhere fast.
Why are you so focused on lurker discussion when there are other things going on?
Nice FOS btw. I make a case on you and you fail to respond to half of it. I don't care who you've played with. You make it a point to say your view on lurkers. You defend him for absolutely no reason, when his views implicitly contradict yours. If you were townie, I wouldn't think this to be a priority for you. I am not focused on lurker discussion, I am focused on the inconsistency you've presented. The issue of "Lurker policy" is not what is at hand. The issue at hand is why you are bothering to defend him (and now kush) instead of letting them defend themselves. It feels extremely forced right now, as townies are supposedly scouring the thread for blood. That's why the FOS. Regarding your "case", it seems to me like the only think you've got going is my general usefulness. And I already said it in form of a question, but now I'll answer it more bluntly so you can't dismiss it: I am instigating discussion. Read all my posts and see if that's what I'm trying to accomplish.
Z-BosoN, you say you are instigating discussion, yet you attack debears for sharing his views on your attack against SDM? In fact, you go as far as to say that debears is in the wrong for even joining the discussion? I find his concerns quite legitimate since your attack on SDM's introduction post seem quite forced to me. Thus I can perfectly understand how he would call you out for it, yet you explain yourself with an inconsistency? Even worse, you are essentially encouraging a player to not say anything at all on a subject while that's actually very good for town!
Debears defending someone - and I'd like to state for the record that I do not agree that that was what he was doing, it seems much more to me like he was attacking you than defending SDM/kush. Him taking a stance like that is contrary to what you would like us to believe actually very pro-town, since if/when one of them flips, he is on record as saying that. Your own argument however, essentially summed up with the following lines from the post quoted above:The issue at hand is why you are bothering to defend him (and now kush) instead of letting them defend themselves. It feels extremely forced right now, as townies are supposedly scouring the thread for blood. That's why the FOS.
That argument right there is what I'm talking about, you essentially say that he should have kept his mouth shut instead of calling you out, yet at the same time saying town should be out for blood, which is exactly what he has been doing in my view. So in essence, you are actually encouraging people to not chime in on things they find odd. Intentional or not, that's just very anti-town behaviour.
Also, you might say that debears did the same thing I am not accusing you of in the following quote:On September 28 2012 14:43 debears wrote:
@darth
...
I'm not defending him as much as I'm trying to tell you that you are going overboard right now. You don't have to rush in annointing him scum. The difference here is that debears is just pointing out that he thinks Darth is rushing to a conclusion and that he shouldn't tunnel vision so hard. You, Z-BosoN used the "let him defend himself!" argument almost as a way to shut debears up.
I find that very scummy, so FoS Z-BosoN.
In particular, I would like you to clarify why you felt the need to bash SDM's introductory post. It does not strike me as very odd that one would like there to be more than just lurker policy to talk about after declaring that he is going to be away from the thread for quite some time(sleep + uni would probably mean something like 15+ hours). Is it so wrong to wish for there to be other things to discuss? It seems to me you are just jumping on anything you can find in order to try and look town. Give us some real analysis, give us some proper motivations behind your posting that isn't contradictory.
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On September 28 2012 20:13 kushm4sta wrote:
@alsn chill i will scum hunt but atm im busy defending this douchery Like I said, actions speak louder than words. I'm inclined to believe you if you actually start acting pro-town but if you keep prioritising your own life over the town's well being, I'll go ahead and straight up lynch you just like that.
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So. Without a wall of text. What exactly is your case on Z- Boson?
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On September 28 2012 20:54 DarthPunk wrote:
So. Without a wall of text. What exactly is your case on Z- Boson? That he is inconsistent and accuses people without backing it up with proper reasoning.
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EBWOP, I realised that I messed up a sentence in my previous post on Z-BosoN.Also, you might say that debears did the same thing I am not accusing you of in the following quote:
Should obviously be:Also, you might say that debears did the same thing I am accusing you of in the following quote:
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Bleh, and now I realised that that's a pretty bad summary of what I wanted to say.
Summary of my case:
I feel that Z-BosoN is attacking people for the sake of attacking them and in a way that seems to be discouraging healthy discussion. As pointed out by my argument he seems to want debears to just shut up and not share his thoughts.
Him attacking SDM for a post obviously made just as a "Hello, let's have a nice game" type of post before heading off to bed just reinforces this idea to me that he is accusing people for dubious reasons.
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On September 28 2012 20:21 Alsn wrote:
you essentially say that he should have kept his mouth shut instead of calling you out
Where does he 'essentially say this'
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EPT
