|
On September 05 2012 11:55 drazak wrote:Show nested quote +On September 04 2012 03:01 kushm4sta wrote: Why town should all vote for cuba
Worst case scenario:he flips green No big deal, we lynched the worst townie (barring WeeTee whose behavior fits his meta like a glove, and kville who is being replaced). From his posts it's clear he has no intention of contributing more than he is already, which is nothing. Plus that would give thrawn some serious town points in my book, since he refuses to vote for him. Thrawn is good for town atmosphere and very active. It would be quite useful to our scumhunt if we could trust thrawn.
Best case scenario: he is mafia If Cuba is mafia, I think there is a very high chance that thrawn is also mafia. In which case we will know 2 mafia first day and basically win the game. People who are specifically against lynching cuba: cuba, thrawn. People who have voted for or accused drazak: cuba, thrawn. Twice now thrawn has attempted to redirect the lynch vote away from cuba onto somebody else. Thrawn says he won't vote for cuba because unlike stutters, cuba has participated in the scumhunt. By scumhunt you mean his failed attempt to bandwagon drazak with you?
We need three more votes on cuba. I'm bringing this post, and Kushm4sta into suspiscion. It seemed like you didn't actually think Cubu was mafia. Your reasoning (and lack there of) makes it clear that you weren't voting because you thought Cubu was mafia, but because you thought there was a slim chance of it and that then Thrawn would be a townie. T I think you might be mafia trying to lead town into bad lynches. Why would you vote people who you don't think are mafia if you're town? I think you're mafia, Kush. ##Vote Kushm4sta
I pushed the cubu vote because 1)he was a bad poster/lurker and it worked as a policy lynch if nothing else 2)how he turned revealed a lot about thrawn, who i assumed medic or jb would save because he was the obvious choice in my mind I thought it was very fishy that thrawn tried to redirect twice, and so I got very excited with the prospect of identifying two mafia in the first day. Also at the time I thought, as did thrawn, that kville was going to be replaced. So that's why I called him the worst townie. Now it's clear that honor belongs to kville.
Also jacob I don't get how this is a good argument? It's reasoning is only one sentence:
Your reasoning (and lack there of) makes it clear that you weren't voting because you thought Cubu was mafia, but because you thought there was a slim chance of it and that then Thrawn would be a townie. I think he means that then thrawn would be mafia, but right now that sentence, which is his ONLY argumentation, makes no sense.
Why would you vote people who you don't think are mafia if you're town? I didn't think anyone else seemed more scumlike than he did. Although I did know that was a big chance of him not being scum. See, drazzy darling, when there are a ton of lurkers/terrible townies in the game like yourself, it makes it pretty fucking hard to win as town.
And my last defense of myself is to invoke the holy name of the late thrawn, who, on the night of his untimely death, proclaimed me as his biggest town read. Read his defense of me because I'm sure it's better than anything I could do. REST IN PEACE THRAWN TT
Not to OMGUS, but this actually makes drazak seem quite suspicious to me. Mostly because I am the most active poster now that thrawn is gone. Maybe I'm biased about the matter but what do other people think? I will look through his filter more tomorrow.
|
On September 05 2012 13:06 drazak wrote: Answer my questions, kushm4sta. I'm not accusing random people, I'm basing an accusation on fact. This is how you find things out in mafia. Trying to throw my suspiscions away like that is VERY mafia like. You're not making the case for yourself any better Kush. You didn't give me time to address your "argument." Also that post on town plan, if that's what you are talking about, had nothing to do with you.
|
I'm up. I have to go to class and after I will post a lot but for now let me just try to defend myself against my two attackers.
@ imcasey: I can understand why some of those behaviors you pointed out might look suspicious. Much better case than drazak IMO. Why did I even bring up no vote d1? I admitted immediately after that it was bad play. It's just that d1 lynch always seems to be town, and last game I played in we had no lurkers. That's what lead me to believe at the time that d1 no lynch might be a good idea. This game we have many lurkers, so no lynch day 1 is even more stupid. We have a huge list of people that deserved to be lynch just as policy lynches. Policy lynches is when you lynch someone not because they are mafia but because they blatantly go against town policy and are bad for town. People that fit that description: drazak early d1, stutters early d1, cubu, kville, weetee.
Why did I vote for krebs so early? Because votes are not permanent and I knew that. It was more to get him to talk more since I thought his first post was very suspicious and bad. I am trying to be less impulsive now though.
Then he really suspects thrawn2112 I never really suspected thrawn or thought he did anything suspicious. It's just that his style is to play very carefully, which is sometimes a trait of mafia. Town is reckless, mafia is careful. I think it would be very hard to figure out that he was mafia is he was one, simply because he would be so good at hiding it.
Shite I really have to go to class.. I will defend myself from drazak after, then that's all the defense I will do unless other people bring it up, because honestly I think it's a waste of time and space. But don't bitch me out drazak... I will spend another post defending myself from you.
|
A girl told me she likes my glasses.. that means she wants to fuck me right? ANYWAY @drazak
On September 05 2012 13:38 drazak wrote:+ Show Spoiler + So, you weren't actually scum hunting, why weren't you scum hunting? Couldn't figure out who to lynch and actually make a good case for because you're mafia? Just because thrawn called you town doesn't make you town.
For the record, town doesn't need a leader, a leader can hurt a town more than help, if the leader is mafia, we're all fucked. Saying that you're the most active doesn't actually make you town. We agreed that the only deciding factor is that being too lurker-ish is scummy. Active does not equate to town.
Accusing me because I'm accusing you is a very bad idea, that's like, the #1 worse scum defense. So tell me, with logical terms, good reasons, and actual evidence, who your best two scum reads are?
I was scumhunting, I just didn't have a great idea of who was scum day 1, as no one did. I thought cubu looked more like mafia than anyone else. Scumhunting doesn't' mean figuring out 100% who is mafia, that is impossible.
Thrawn calling me town doesn't make me town--this is true. But thrawn is a confirmed innocent so at least we know that all his motivations were pro town and his beliefs genuine.
Drazak I agree the town doesn't need a leader, but I think we do need to be focused. And what I mean by that is we should not all be analyzing different people. That is what mafia wants because it makes it easy for mafia to hide amidst that confusion and not to take a stance on people he doesn't want to take a stance on.
You ask me who my best scum reads are atm. I will comply. As of now it's xatalos, for reasons already posted. I still want to analyze your filter more, drazak, but I will say that accusing me out of the blue, since for many I am a strong town read, was not really a safe move, and that gives you town points...minor town points though, because you may have thought that cubu flipping green justified your suspicion. Other people I am suspicious of is stutters, since he has been absent for quite a while now.. I really want to see what he is going to post today before I make a judgement on him.
I will post more substantially later.
PS I really don't want to lynch kville in light of his most recent post and just thinking about it more. He deserves the lynch maybe because his play was just really bad and anti town but I don't want to waste it on him. Also I think it is mostly a waste of time to discuss him, since there is not much to talk about or analyze in his posts.
|
Thank you for that meta read on kville, Stutters! Fitting his meta doesn't make him automatically town, but I think it does remove suspicion for that suspicious behavior. I think it makes kville a null read.
And I think he is fitting his meta. Basically this guy believe that posting and making reads on d1 is useless, and he's bitter about being lynched for believing that.
|
On September 06 2012 02:17 Sonic Death Monkey wrote: I think it's a good idea to build a lot of cases today to get as much info as possible. We absolutely need to be more focused tomorrow and not all go vote on different people.
Ok I can get aboard with this. Soon I will make a case against someone who has been off everyone's radar recently. He still strikes me as very suspicious though.
|
On September 06 2012 07:36 JacobStrangelove wrote: If it’s a standard early lurk accusation then why mention it? Yes I did throw around connections and because of that I now know that both you and killing are far less likely to be scum. Remember there are town motivations for accusing people especially early day one when you don’t have much to go on. You can look at the reactions and see how people respond or ignore things. For example, Xatatos just re-entered the thread and didn’t mention a thing about the accusations against him. Whereas both you and killing have without giving me much to go on(in way of mafia reads). I tend to scum hunt differently because if I can confirm enough people town logically the rest must be mafia. Then you can look at the people remaining and go from most suspicious to least. Of course I find the argument weak there was almost no argument strong at all day one. Wouldn’t lynch cubu because cubu was an easy day two lynch. I have been taking a risk with killing insinuations however due to that and the responses I have gotten as I said in the last through posts he is getting more and more town like. Opposed to Xatatos.
I doubt it is still the best course of action to vig shoot kville. While it is odd to go from random to logical and clear. (something I should try doing it seems) Maybe he got a prod from one of the mods about the rules? Not sure if that happens (and it would only happen as town) also if he does start posting like this then we should be able to find something out quickly. Stutters is still under the radar, this is not mindless agreeing this is fact. Happy about your comment on killing
Turns out I need to go so I will cut this off here and be back later.
Who are you talking to? Can you try harder to make your posts understandable? Like if you are replying to something make it clear what you are replying to.
|
On September 06 2012 07:49 Kreb wrote: Ok, I dont really like the way this is going. We've had people going on hunts left and right last 24h with really no focus recently. While I did agree that leaving Kville for a while and discussing other targets in parallell was a good idea, I wasnt really expecting the amount of accusation being thrown around at people.
I agree we should limit our discussion to three people for the last 24 hours. But the last 24 hours haven't started yet so I think it's ok for people to still basically give suggests as to who those three people should be.
|
For instance if I had to pick three it would be drazak, killing, and xatalos. I'm going to try to get my reasoning in for drazak and killing before the 24 hour mark.
|
fuckin euros man... I think kville is a bad choice to focus on. He has not posted enough to discuss meaningfully, and considering his meta I think he is a null read. Also we gain nothing by lynching him, whether he flips red or green, because his lynch is a matter of policy more than anything else. If we cannot come to a consensus on someone more active to lynch, then maybe he can be our default lynch or somthing. So yeah I'm not saying we shouldn't lynch him but I am saying we shouldn't talk about him.
Stutters has been lurking hard day 2. His recent kville accusations have been very safe. At this point kville is the safest person to suspect, just because his play has been so WTF. However, I do appreciate his recent contributions on kville's metagame and I think that was a good post. I'm ok with stutters as a focus but I would prefer someone else.
However I think we can all at least agree that xatalos needs some looking at for the last 24 hours. People should say if they want to lynch him or not and why.
|
Someone else I want to get people's thoughts on are drazzak. He is a semi-lurker and all around bad poster. So losing him would not mean losing good town, unlike a lynch on xatalos. His attack on me seems scummy for various reasons.. possibly defending his scumbuddy by attacking his scumbuddy's attacker. Also I would like to make a post about the drazzak xatalos connection. If you read the filter xatalos has a history of defending drazzak and calling his posts good when they really aren't.
On September 04 2012 00:05 Xatalos wrote: I also don't think drazak is Mafia. The typical reaction for pressured Mafia is to get angry, aggressive or desperate, but in my eyes, he has tried to be genuinely helpful - giving away a lot of unnecessary information in case he actually was Mafia. The somewhat frustrated tone in his posts also points more to town than Mafia.
When i read this i was like ...huh? Drazak's defense of thrawn's vote actually made him seem more suspicious to me. I would not call him genuinely helpful at all. It seems very out of place reading xatalos' filter that he would be that accepting of drazak.
|
So can we come to a consensus about people we want to focus investigation on? Xatalos and who else? I like drazak but kreb doesn't it seems like. Any other input on the matter? Again I want to avoid lurkers who don't really have much to talk about.
|
On September 06 2012 09:22 Kreb wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 08:53 kushm4sta wrote: He is a semi-lurker and all around bad poster. So losing him would not mean losing good town, unlike a lynch on xatalos.
I have a hard time seeing how that argument isnt best used on Kville. He is the definition of a not good town (if he is town). Also, people gave you towncred for your kinda unjustified attack on me. To me, drazaks attack on you is similar. I understand it might not look the same from the point of view as the attacked person. But just as people thought you had honest (but miguided) intentions on your attack on me, I definitely think drazak also has honest and misguided intentions with the attack on you. You're not having much more reason to turn things back onto drazak than I did have to turn things nack onto you. But I never did that. My attack on you was not unjustified and not misguided. Your post was a piece of shit and very suspicious and I wanted you to post more.
|
On September 06 2012 09:42 Kreb wrote:+ Show Spoiler +I'll also post my other townread on Drazak. Maybe Im over-analyzing things, but this one little part of a sentence actually had me fairly conviced. Let me explain: Page 14 if you wanna re-read. What had happened before was: Thrawn had made a case on Drazak. Drazak had responded with a bunch on replies. I pointed out Drazaks defense being lackluster. The drazak pointed out this: On September 03 2012 20:43 drazak wrote: I only mention a no-lynch in direct reply to what kushm4sta said, reread his post. Sorry if I'm being defensive, not sure how that's a senseless claim considering what kushm4sta said. Everything I've said has made me infinitely more useful on D2 compared to someone like kville, I have a lot to analyze, and you'll have more info. lynch me now and your future lynches get harder. See what Im getting at? Probably not. The key thing to me is this: Sorry if I'm being defensive That really had me thinking. Let me explain. That little phrase expresses the feeling of guilt. First of all, there is absolutely no reason for a mafia to feel genuine guilt at this point. He is being attack from one front (thrawn) and then has his defense kind of destroyed from another front (me). What is the feeling you get as mafia then? Desperation? Maybe. Resignation? Maybe. Anger? Maybe. Guilt? Hell no. For this to be a mafia-move, it has to be a planted feeling. A purposedly planted feeling to fool us. So, it it possible it was? To me, no. Because purposedly placing a feeling on guilt there is a pretty damn crafty move. And had drazak been a crafty mafia, he would never have put himself in that situation to begin with. He would never have replied so badly to Thrawns accusations had he been a crafty mafia. So whats more likely? A) He got taken by surprise by thrawns accusations, immediately tried to defend himself, but upon seeing my post kinda talk down on his defense feelt guilt and the need to excuse himself. B) Purposedly responded badly to thrawns accusation. Then upon seeing my comment gladly noticed that "hey, now is the perfect time to apologize for my bad defense, surely someone will make a read on me thats its genuine guilt and i'll look townish". Am I over-anazyling things? Maybe. But to me drazak is looking town at least.
That whole thing about guilt.. not following it, not buying it. Guilt is a very complex emotion and I do not think you can base his innocence off of one sentence that you somehow read as guilt.
Looking for other people to chime in on what they think of drazak. Also does someone follow what kreb is saying here?
this quote is lolz
He is being attack from one front (thrawn) and then has his defense kind of destroyed from another front (me). His defense was not a defense. The post you praise was just copying an argument I made, which did not even take into account if he was mafia or not. He had no real defense to destroy.. and to say you "destroyed" it like some master logician picking apart his arguments is an overestimation of both drazzak and yourself.
|
On September 06 2012 09:58 Kreb wrote: On topic: Dont you agree Kville is the definition of a not good town?
First sorry for being a dick I was pissed off in that moment about something else. Second yeah kville is really bad town, but he acted bad town in another game as well and he was town. Therefore acting like bad town doesn't make him mafia. It's just a null read. I don't want to lynch someone who has a null read.
|
Ok so a little less than 14 hours until lynch time, and our suspicions are still everywhere... Please table the talk about possible scumteams. I have been guilty of doing this kind of thinking myself, but I agree it is useless until one flips scum. Keep it to yourself until then.
When I list a few people who I want the town to focus on I'm not trying to divert attention away from others. I'm just trying to help the town. Who is it today? Xatalos and stutters? And maybe myself since drazzak has an epic hard on for me lately? Can we at least get a preliminary vote? Waiting until the last second to bandwagon someone isn't a bad strategy, because it forces scum to act fast, but I don't think it's doable with all these eurofags. ##vote xatalos NB this is not my final vote...
|
@imcasey
On September 06 2012 20:50 imcasey wrote: I am sure Xatalos is mafia and he will be my vote.
I get that you are new but saying something like that is absurd. It's impossible to be sure.
|
OK people I think we can agree should not be brought up before lynch, simply because it's a waste of time since these people are never going to be lynched in 13 hours: Killingtime Sonic Jacob Kreb I would also like to add myself to this list but seems biased to do so.
I think killing's filter does look suspicious and we should resume discussion of him tomorrow.
|
On September 06 2012 21:01 Stutters695 wrote:Kush - I need to reread the cases on him and his filter but I really want to see an answer to this post of drazak:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 17:28 drazak wrote:Alright, I was afk most of the day. First I'd like to point something out about Kush's posting behavior, he tries to downplay my accusations, and say that my case is bad, deciding that there is almost no case against him in his first responding post. Kush goes on to make /4/ posts responding to my accusation and then accusing me. In his posts, he either delays replying to me, which if my argument is weak, makes no sense, it should be simple to pick apart. In the meantime, I've been afk and have made 0. This seems like a bit over an overreaction if he's innocent and my accusation is weak. + Show Spoiler +- http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16133744
- http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16133615
- http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16144834
- http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16140589
You sir, have made a big slip, every time you're accused you throw it right back at your accuser, this is the weakest of the defenses, espescially when your case is weak. I urge the rest of the town to actually look at my arguments, instead of dismissing them as a weak case, look through kush's filter, and the posts I've described and linked, he's made a large scumslip here, at first my accusations were fairly tenative due to having only moderate evidence, but instead of his defense making my case weaker, he's made it stronger. P.S. sorry for taking so long to post, was going to hours ago and then had dinner with a friend, when I got home I had other stuff to do on my other pc, and then fell asleep for a little after I got my laptop out. OK stutters. So drazzak's argument here, which you can read yourself, I can summarize as thus: I say his argument is weak then I take 4 posts to defend it. Also I accuse him which makes me scum because accusing your attacker is bad defence. my reply: I still think your attack on me was bad, and if you look for closely I only put up 1 defence post for each of your attack posts. You say you were afk and had 0 posts in between my 4 posts, but that is incorrect. You have 2 substantially lengthed posts and I made 1 post each in defense of those.
[*]http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16133744 This was my post in defense of your first post.
[*]http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16133615 This had nothing to do with you. It was just talking about how we need a plan and to stay focused day 2.
[*]http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16144834 This is not a defense. It is actually just suspicion of you. Yes I am suspicious of you and yes that is partly because you accused me. However my suspicions of you honestly are not that strong. I hope you are town and I hope I get lynched just so you can see how bad of a player you are. I think you are really bad at this game also you piss me off. ANYWAY moving on.
[*]http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16140589 the 4th post you bring up is another defense, but that is actually in response to another, separate attacking post from you, which I quote in my post. You were not afk across those 4 posts.
Also i did not attack you as my defense. Actually I tried to keep my posts attacking you (which their haven't been much of) and my arguments for defense separate.
@Stutters does that satisfy you or is there something else?
|
Also can people please focus on those who have a possibility of getting lynched today! Drazzak and stutters and whoever if you have suspicions of me can it wait until night? Because honestly I don't think a bandwagon on me at this point is even possible.
|
|
|
|