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Palmar being AFK is probably due to the TI2, I'm withholding judgement on him until he comes back. Can't change my mind on Risen until he comes back and starts acting more or less Risen. Marv's disappearance is disconcerting, but probably not alignment indicative.
I never said BMB was not mafia, I just said that I'm not ready to lynch him over a single bad case he had presented. I'm still waiting for him to come back into the thread and respond to what's happened. His response is going to determine my view of his alignment.
Still not quite sure of what I think of S+B. I haven't seen a scum player make a legit fakeclaim for a long time, so based on the metagame, I'm inclined to believe him when he claimed miller. However, you're right, his posts have been a little bit off. That's why I really want him to chime in on the MMToss situation.
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On September 01 2012 04:40 Shady Sands wrote:
Alright, enough of this bullshit.
## Vote Node
Until he posts. I'm also amenable to a wagon on Zentor.
As for Momen, I want to his response. As for BlackMamba, I haven't had a chance to read through his filter yet. Will check thread again 5 hours from now.
Shady, Node isn't lurking, he's not playing. We can discuss lynching him if and when he shows up.
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On September 01 2012 05:01 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 04:48 ghost_403 wrote:On September 01 2012 04:40 Shady Sands wrote:
Alright, enough of this bullshit.
## Vote Node
Until he posts. I'm also amenable to a wagon on Zentor.
As for Momen, I want to his response. As for BlackMamba, I haven't had a chance to read through his filter yet. Will check thread again 5 hours from now. Shady, Node isn't lurking, he's not playing. We can discuss lynching him if and when he shows up. This makes sense to me kind of. Node knew what this game was when he signed up for it. Being inactive this long seems more and more lurkerish as the game gets closer to lynch imo. How am I supposed to get anything on the guy if he just comes in right before deadline with some crazy posting?
I don't lynch people who are in danger of being modkilled.
If he comes back two minutes before the deadline, we figure out why tomorrow. If he gives a good reason, no problem. If not, we lynch him.
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Alright, let's see what happened while I was gone.
For reference, MMToss' defense
So far, nothing has convinced me to take my vote off of MMToss. His defense against the people voting him amounted to "the people voting for me are lazy/stupid, oh and here's someone I think is scum". I really can't see a town player posting his defense in such a way.
By the way, Shady's not scum. See Newbie Mini Mafia XXV. He's not acting like that in this game at all.
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@MrZentor: Are you really voting for Palmar just because his first post in the thread is him claiming that he's a VT, or you voting him because he's trolling?
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On September 01 2012 08:40 HiroPro wrote:ghost, what do you think of his second response? Show nested quote +On September 01 2012 07:04 Mementoss wrote:In the middle of this post, Mementoss says that he voted for Mr. Zentor in order to get him to post something useful, indicating that he has no clear view of Mr. Zentor's alignment. However, right after that Mementoss accuses Hapahauli of soft/hard defending Mr. Zentor and being his scumbuddy. Not only does this not make any sense, as the only posts that Hapahuli has made about Zentor are asking Mementoss why he voted for him, but Mementoss displays a clear disconnect in the way that he perceives Zentor (on one hand being someone he needs to see more from, on the other hand as a scumbuddy). To answer HiroPro. I occasionally say aggressive statements like this for people I'm null for to get some sort of reaction out of them and can make another opinion on them based on how they react. Sometimes it's been the case that people on the same scum team avoid communication in the thread or joke around with each other in the thread to lessen the distance between them. Then... you vote Mr.Zentor for lurking? What? This is what I considered to be a soft defense, trying to take the heat off him from that moment. What does voting MrZentor even do, when you find other people suspicious? Then implying that I am voting him for no reason and downplaying it, is what I considered a harder defense. As obviously I had a reason for doing it, and explaining it basically takes away all effectiveness of the action. I hope that clears it up to you hiro.
Reading it the way I think it's meant to be read, I think it's gibberish. Is that really what MMToss was trying to get across?
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On September 01 2012 01:21 Mementoss wrote:
I'm not too fond of the way ghost has been defending mamba at every chance he gets. It's fine to defend a player if you don't think they're town but leave it at that. Cause when he comes back to the thread he can just mirror the things that ghost said to defend him, or otherwise there is at least a lot less pressure on him to give an adquete response about his case and such. That being said, most of ghosts talk so far has been on this, so I would like to ask him if he had to make a vote now, who would it be and why?
My opinion on this BMB fiasco is that he seems a bit scummy to me. His posts just rub me the wrong way and his case was bad. I'm not going to go much farther into this as it's already been fleshed out by many but I'll be interested in seeing a response from him. The way he talks about his personal scum preferences is odd, and the question to the hosts could just be a scam to make himself look town, when he actually knew the answer because he received this fake role. I think the case was bad and forced from a scum perspective because if you look through his early filter he realized he was talking a lot, but it was purely filler, and was scared of getting called out on it soon, so he decided to make a case up so no one would call him out for "contributing without actually saying much".
I agree that Risen's play is not his normal town play, of guns blazing and doing crazy shit to get reactions out.
If we are going to set the tone here that lurking is unacceptable as town we might as well start day one, and try to set ourselves up for a winning situation later in the game. Also based on his less than stellar game history... So for now..
##Vote: Mr.Zentor
Also I think that people should be giving their gut thoughts and put in a vote at the start of each day, so we can discuss our way through the best person for the lynch throughout the day. People don't seem to realize how short a 24 hour cycle is, so getting a vote in ASAP is important for discussion and consolidation on voting out a scum. Obviously this is impossible to do on day 1, but I think it should be done for further days.
This is the post done by Mementoss that makes me think that he's scum. Take a close look at what he's saying in this post.
- Ghost is defending BMB
- BMB is scum
- Risen is a bit off
- Hey, let's lynch a lurker
To the first point, he points out that I've been defending BMB, which is not true. I've been trying to force a discussion about BMB with the people who have been voting BMB. I specifically point that out in this post and this post. Look at what he said real carefully. It's not that he disagrees with what I did. I think he's misrepresenting what I've done in the game up until this point in order to undermine my position in the town.
Reading his position on BMB, you realize that he's all over the place in his read. "bit scummy", "make himself look town", "the case was bad and forced from a scum perspective"... All of this would make you think that given a bullet, he'd shoot BMB dead. So why isn't he voting BMB, or at the very least pressuring on him hard? If I was that convinced someone was scum, I'm going to do everything I can to make him sweat bullets and get him lynched. MMToss just kind of admits it, and leaves it hanging.
Next, Risen is a bit off. Everyone said that. Next!
Finally, he votes Zentor. His vote on Zentor isn't based around the fact that he think's he is scum, he's simply voting for him because he feels compelled to vote. I don't see him putting a lot of thought into his vote, which is exactly what a mediocre scum player does.
TL;DR - I think MMToss is scum because of this post. I'm going to be rather upset if the town lets him off the hook.
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Hey guys!
What's going on in this thread!
Today is crazy for me, so I'm going to be making one post today, and that's it.
Thoughts on NKs: I'm thinking Hapa was a town KP due to the flavor, and BMB was the scum KP. Knowing this is not particularly enlightening. I don't put any more faith in BMB's reads (or any less in Hapa's) because of this. Obviously, BMB was killed because he was acting very town. Look through his filter and use it as a town biased viewpoint. Don't ignore what dead townies have to say.
I can't believe the town let Palmar be lynched Day 1. Sure, he was useless, but seriously?
Town reads: MrZentor (unfortunately), Shady Sands (double unfortunately) and Node (WTF?????). Check out Node's previous games. In Hammer, he did basically the same thing, where he contributed next to nothing throughout all of Day 1, and he rolled Vig in that game. In this game, he was gone for most of the day, but when he came back he was opinionated and aggressive. Lurking scum would be much more apologetic.
Zentor, start using your head. And Shady, read the fucking thread.
Scum: MMToss, Risen, and S+B. I'm not convinced that's the scum team by any stretch, but those are the people in the thread I think are acting scummy. (Side note: I have no idea how many scum there are in this game at all. I'm assuming there is a team?) MMToss is a carry over from yesterday. No part of how the day played out makes me change my opinion on him. S+B, I'll comment on that at the end (new stuff in thread between when I started writing and finished writing).
As far as Risen, Node is right. We have to hold him accountable for his part in the Palmar lynch. As town, Risen is aggressive and abrasive. As scum, Risen worships chaos (See TLM LIII). This is looking a lot more like scum Risen. Pressure him today and watch what happens.
Null reads: Hiro (leaning town), Marv (leaning town), mkfuba (leaning newbie town), and hopeless1der (leaning scum). I don't have enough to really read any of these players. pre-edit: marv's interactions now with S+B are pushing me to place him more in the town category than the scum category. If S+B flips town, he goes down to scum.
Looks like S+B probably fakeclaimed miller. Ballsy play on his part. This pushes Hiro to town read, and confirms what I suspected on S+B.
##vote strongandbig
And now, I'm off! Don't do anything stupid while I'm gone.
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Aaaaand I'm back.
I miss anything?
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Hey Zentor, why am I scum again? Looking through your filter, I can't find a good reason, other than I voted to lynch my scumbuddy good friend guy I met at a coffee shop once known as StrongAndBig.
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Marv had a couple of points on me that I would like to address. brb
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On September 02 2012 04:00 marvellosity wrote:
sigh mementoss. i think you do a decent analysis of ghost's post, although I don't lean as heavily scum as you do. More errors of logical thought.
Because I'm so self-centred, just look at the bit on me.
It went basically like - marv leaning town, especially because he's accusing strongandbig, but if s&b is town then marv moves the other way. Then the kicker - ghost votes strongandbig. So from a townie perspective he's thinking the same as me, but somehow I have to be correct to let this be townie? how does that add up?
so if strongandbig flips town, then logically speaking ghost is scummy, if his attitude towards me is consistent, right?
My bit on you was more based around the fact that you were one of the first people to immediately jump on the S+B bandwagon. Your post voting him was literally the first post after Hiro voted S+B. If S+B had been town, I would have been more suspicious of you, because to me, you were one of the people spearheading the vote, at least at the time. Does that answer your question?
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In response to MMToss:
+ Show Spoiler +This is the kind of post you make before you die. As of now it does nothing to help the game. It makes you look like your doing something, but really it's more confusing than anything to give your read on everyone in the whole game. None of his reads are really explained at all. This whole post screams scum to me, and I'm pretty surprised im the first person to mention it. As scum, you can pretty much put anyone in whatever category you want, to try and manipulate the views of others. You know the alignments of players, so he can distance himself from his scum team while looking like he's contributing. He also has all his basis covered for future mislynches.
This is not the kind of post you make before you die, it's the kind of post that you make when you want to exert your influence over the town while you're not around. Imagine if the bit with S+B hadn't happened. Instead, we would have had a lot of people fighting over whether or not we should be lynching into Node or Zentor. I didn't want that to happen, so I explicitly made my position on the matter clear while I was gone.
+ Show Spoiler +Mementoss was the 2nd highest lynch yesterday so he's going to keep mentioning it so while everyone is still curious about it he can push for a second mislynch. He finds SnB scum, so lets kill him, if he flips town, Marv will most certainly be scum and we can mislynch him. Also Risen started the Palmar lynch, so lets lynch him! I'm not saying Marv and Risen are definitely town. What I am saying is ghost is clearly keeping his options open without really giving any helpful information or committing to any options, so if he switches wagons, he can refer to this post and say , well yeah I mentioned it here.
Shady Sands made a similar comment about how I was setting up a mislynch on MMToss after Palmar. Newsflash, people. If I think you are scum, and someone else gets lynched, I'm still going to try to lynch you. I don't see "my lynch attempt failed" as an indicator that I'm wrong, so come the next day, I'm going to try it again. I'm stupidly stubborn.
Also, he completely missed the reason that I though Risen was scum. Risen is not playing to his meta. Based on my own time constraints, I didn't have time to write out to the thread exactly why I believed that. I was putting it out there and hoping someone else would take the time to decide if I was right or wrong.
+ Show Spoiler +I will bold the parts where ghost puts blame onto other people for the lynch yesterday or downplays the intelligence of others, to try and re-enforce what a good and noble townie he is. When yesterday he did nothing to help the lynch or help find scum, yet alone even make a case.
Day 1, a lot of those people lynched a townie. I make no apologies for calling them out on it.
Thing I will apologize for is swearing at Shady Sands. I should not have gotten so wrapped up in this game, and Shady, I'm sorry about that.
+ Show Spoiler +Additionally, another thing he does to make himself look like good old useful townie ghost is take credit for things that never happened. Such as the last line of the post, "confirms what I suspected on S+B." when in reality, ghost never mentioned SnB in his whole filter as a scum possibility. He is now doing the same thing yesterday, jumping on the lynch wagon after it starts to gain a bit of steam.
Reading the thread at the time, some of the things that S+B just looked kind of wrong. I didn't have time to put my finger on exactly what it was, or write up a proper case. It was just a gut feeling, that something about his play wasn't lining up with how a miller should play. Before I had a chance to really look into it, HiroPro comes bursting into the thread, and I thought to myself, "boy, that seems obvious".
If anyone's really interested in me responding to Shady's point-by-point analysis, I'll consider it, but I doubt that it will be a good use of my time.
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Sigh, some many responses to make. First things first:
(1) Marv, where did I pressure Hapa to vote for BMB?
(2) The reason for my vote was very similar to the case that, I believe it was Hiro? made at the time. Hiro beat me to it, I felt no reason to rehash what someone else had already said.
(3) Think I explained that.
(4) Explained that in my later post.
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@MrZentor: You're making the situation look a lot more black and white than it actually is. In order to switch to me, mafia would have to move one vote off of S+B to even it up. At this point, S+B will still be lynched. They would need a second vote in order to get me lynched. Not looking like such a good trade anymore, now is it?
@Marv: That's a good question. I've been busy responding to everyone since I got back, so I haven't had time to really look into it. That comes next.
Risen still seems off to me, and I need to put some time into reading his filter in order to figure out what's going on with him.
MrZentor seems to have had a sudden burst of cleverness that's not sitting too well with me. I don't know what to make of that.
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Having all three of them on the same townie wagon might look a bit suspicious :O
Not actually convinced Zentor is scum yet, brb.
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Marv, I'm having a hell of a time trying to read Zentor. What do you think about him? After all, you've caught him as scum before.
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Sigh.
I really wish I could come back here with some amazing analysis that shows why we should be voting Zentor today.
##vote MrZentor
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On September 04 2012 02:53 Risen wrote:+ Show Spoiler +IAMA Scum Team Member. Ask me anything! ((On a more serious note, gg scum, I honestly didn't see it coming)) 8 hours to endgame?  ##vote HiroPro so I can claim I did my best to play to my win condition.
On September 04 2012 03:43 Risen wrote:+ Show Spoiler +EBWOP: I'm L and thought I could trust the cop claim, but didn't want to make him my rhm b/c then a single scum shot wipes out my rhm and my "cop". I'm a "mason" who gets one use per day and only to my rhm who is selected and then can't be changed unless he dies. Picked mamba b/c he was my strongest town read who wasn't liable to get offed immediately. Then I chose marvel b/c I was just hydra'd with him last game and I was getting town vibes off him. The problem with my power is that I only get to send a message for the next day the day before.
I know HiroPro is one of the remaining scum b/c cop checks on me return detective. There are no framers in this setup. There are a lot of ways I could have played this differently and honestly I wish I hadn't been made L b/c I raged a lot day 1 at Palmar. I'm willing to accept a lot of the blame for that lynch and subsequently losing the game, but I think Palmar is just as equally to blame.
Turns out it ISN'T mylo or lylo, but the game is over after I'm lynched by my reasoning.
There's 7 of us left. I think there's 2 scum left (two scum, one traitor makes sense to me balance-wise)
So that makes it 5-2. Mislynch today makes it 4-2, they get one kill tomorrow (I'm sending up fifty prayers it's only one and the other kills the past two days have been traitor and a hidden vig somewhere), makes it 3-2 (Ghost is getting shot if he's town for reasons explained one paragraph down). HiroPro gets lynched, makes it 3-1, now scum just needs one mislynch. 2-1, scum shoots someone, 1-1, game over.
So it turns out it isn't mylo. The remaining townies are going to have a 33% chance if they RNG their target. Odds are that the final four are going to be Node, marvel, fuba, hopeless. Who do you lynch out of that group? None of you have contributed jack shit. It's going to be "Let's play a game called RNG the lurker lynch woooo!"
I screwed up this game. I admit it fully, but at least I didn't screw us over by lurking and creating this stupid situation in the endgame where everyone remaining is a lurker or by trolling day 1 so I get lynched stupidly.
Dat pause.
##vote risen
Another stupidly busy day. I'm hoping to be back before the deadline. I'm really interested to know how a town Marv is still alive. FYI, he's my day 4 policy lynch. Gotta look into that.
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EPT
