TL Mafia LVII

On August 28 2012 12:19 goodkarma wrote:


When you put it that way, I can't resist



/in

On August 31 2012 15:59 BlackMamba24 wrote:

just do what i say i hate it when people don't let me have 100% control over everything

On September 04 2012 08:51 Hapahauli wrote:


Hey DP! Surely there's something you can comment on in the ~2 pages of the thread so far

On September 04 2012 08:09 DoYouHas wrote:
Well, as per usual I like lynching lurkers day 1 if a scummier option doesn't present itself.

Blues should do as they see fit. Discussion in that area only gives scum more points of reference for blue hunting.

In the past L has assured me that this is always the correct course of action, sooo

##Vote: Bill Murray

On September 04 2012 08:22 DoYouHas wrote:
slOosh, my vote is neither stupid nor a throwaway. I have a friend who I consider a better player than me who has told me that getting BM out of the game quickly is always a good thing. It is meta as hell but it isn't stupid.

On September 04 2012 10:26 Hapahauli wrote:
As for an early-game scumread, I'm suspicious of DarthPunk.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826&currentpage=15#285

In his only substantial post, he's very critical of the early-game play of two players. He calls mattchew's vote "retarded" but doesn't attempt to say if it's scummy or not. He doesn't ask questions about their motives - he's just critical, and that seems scummy to me.

##Vote DarthPunk

On September 04 2012 09:51 DarthPunk wrote:
By throwing a policy vote on Bill Murray immediately and then getting into a protracted defense of this vote you essentially move into a situation in which you take no real position and push a potential mislynch which you would suffer zero consequences from. Seems like an ideal Position for scum to take.

On September 04 2012 10:43 Hapahauli wrote:
Was more talking about the first half - walking into a thread and calling mattchew's vote "retarded" doesn't strike me as very townie, especially if you say nothing else about it.

On September 04 2012 10:50 Mattchew wrote:

what are you harping on about?

the vote was to make him realize he was being thick

On September 04 2012 10:51 Hapahauli wrote:
Okay this is getting nowhere fast. Howbout this - other than being "retarded", does it make you lean one way or another toward Mattchew's alignment?

On September 04 2012 11:12 Z-BosoN wrote:

@Darthpunk
Unjustified accusations won't get us anywhere. If you are going to say it was retarded, say why.

On September 04 2012 11:53 Hapahauli wrote:


Let's do this the easy way:

Is the "Nosy Neighbor" self-aware? Does he receive his exact title in the role PM?

On September 04 2012 11:57 BlackMamba24 wrote:
Roles and game specific rules





go ahead point it out

On September 04 2012 12:03 BloodyC0bbler wrote:



It isnt an assumption.

On September 04 2012 12:35 Hapahauli wrote:
@ BC

Regarding the "Nosy Neighbor" claim, I just can't see mafia doing that. If the role isn't self-aware as you suggest, aren't you just shooting yourself in the foot from a mafia perspective? Because if no one else claims, you get auto-lynched.

On September 04 2012 12:50 BlackMamba24 wrote:

and vice-versa. Town is actually in a great spot now because there has been a major split and the fact that no one is backing BC up by now has made me feel suspicious. If we can confirm this objectively in a matter of time, I think quite a few scum will be getting the noose.

On September 04 2012 16:21 Z-BosoN wrote:
All right, regarding the BC/Mattchew situation:

First of all, this post is wrong:



IIRC, he asked for people with the same role - noisy neighbor - to claim, not blues.

BC is making this main assumption:



To put it simply, this is the main argument going on: how can he know he is a noisy neighbor if they are unaware?. Am I correct?

You have made it clear that you are 100% sure that this game does not include self-aware millers.
As a normal person, one could not make this assumption, as it would be statistical. Say 90% of games don't include self-aware millers. I have read the OP, and nowhere does it say that millers aren't self-aware, so you must have other reasons to know this, because no matter what, you say it is not an assumption.

The fact that you keep insisting would be ridiculous if you weren't indeed 100% certain, because, like sloosh said, you would most likely be lynched if he showed up town, making it a double town loss.

Did I get anything wrong here?

If not, ##Vote Mattchew

On September 05 2012 03:55 Ottoxlol wrote:
@austinmcc I mean mistake like bad play, whatever is his alignment he shouldn't have claimed. Tell me why is it more likely that he did it as scum then blue/assa? So everyone thinks that he did not communicate with his scumbuddies. THATS speculation. I think he is not scum. Why? We have zero information other than he did a fake-claim and everyone jumped on the wagon. No one answered why did they, other than Toads very weak- close to nothing meta reasoning.

+ Show Spoiler +
You got me :D Nice ignoring my question for the 5th time in a row. You claim to be not newbie right? So then why is your reasoning so weak? Are you making these up on the go? You broke under the smallest pressure lol

On September 05 2012 07:15 Hapahauli wrote:
Other than me not "seriously pursue[ing] a scum read" being absurd given the game length at the time (barely a few hours), you quoted the scumread I was pursuing in your own post. That's not just 1, but two lovely instances of you lying in the same post.

On September 05 2012 09:17 Ottoxlol wrote:
I just don't get it. Why is it simpler to fuck up as scum? Tell me "kid".
I went into the whole hypotethical thing because I was discussing why would a nonscum Matt fake-claim. So why would a scum Matt fake-claim? if this was a selfaware miller game, a tracker could very well track him n1 then if he's scum it would be revealed.

On September 05 2012 09:38 Gravan wrote:
First, the straightforward part. It seems to me that Matt is most likely an assassin, or a very careless player.

As many have said before me, there is no case for him to do what he did from a town perspective. To me, it seems that if he were mafia or town, we would likely have seen at least some kind of attempt at an explanation - either to strengthen his fellow mafia by giving them 'towncred' as they jump on his bandwagon or to try to convince us we are making a mistake as a town blue. As an assassin, he could just be seeing his end and giving up - this is of course moot if he decides to put in his piece later.

Since he is apparently not a random newbie (who is a random newb, anyway ?), and clearly likes to be an active player, it shouts assasinto me.

Since it is day 1 and we only have so much information, we essentially have to lynch him anyway (even if we were nearly certain he is an assassin. At this time, I'll be throwing my vote his way.

The post where I make my comments on the information currently present (as in, not to do with the matt bandwagon) is coming up later. I just wanted to put down somehing somewhat solid so thanI can start to develop a post hostory, watery as it might be.

On September 05 2012 09:40 Ottoxlol wrote:


But he thought it was.

Since no one made a case other than he's lying therefore scum. I tried reasoning his claim and I got to the conclusion that he could very well be a blue or assa. He's even more likely to be one because it was a bad play whatever his alignment is, but as scum he could have discussed it with his team so there is less room for making a mistake this big. I was baffled by the fact that no town had came to this and asked why is that. 19 or something people already voted for him, I can only see it as a very easy wagon. People jump on with zero discussion, zero contribution.

On September 05 2012 09:50 Rewok wrote:
EBWOP: We obv don't want to start roleclaiming, but it wouldn't be a bad idea to give our potential vigilante a target for today / tonight. Any ideas?

On September 05 2012 10:07 Rewok wrote:
@BC - I agree. We got a good D1 going on. That's a fair point, too. My bad. I didn't think this through all the way. I wasn't going to post at all - I guess I should stick with that instinct haha.

On September 04 2012 22:55 Ottoxlol wrote:
This just provides an easy wagon to jump onto and removes d1 discussion as a whole, no town benefit from that.
Just because he did not play well it doesnt mean he's scum.

On September 05 2012 00:58 Ottoxlol wrote:
I won't vote Matt because TL Mafia LIII. VE claimed Jailkeeper D1, I think that was the worst claim of all times. I made the first case on that, it was similar in a way that whether townVE or scumVE it was a very bad claim. We lynched him, and since almost everyone could easily vote on him without any reasoning we had no real info about anyone. Sounds familiar?

On September 05 2012 09:40 Ottoxlol wrote:
I can only see it as a very easy wagon. People jump on with zero discussion, zero contribution.

On September 06 2012 09:46 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Boson, Ottoxlol still has to respond to me how he came up with 5 red as the team size. Its not in the OP and no mod has come into thread clarifying thus it is unlikely they have decided how to respond to it yet.

Basically, as you guys all know how I caught mattchew day 1? Well until a mod comes in and clears him by saying the mafia # is something not 5 hes mafia. As of right now, the only people who have the actual mafia size # are mafia thus I believe it was an unintentional slip by him, but one that is unsurprising giving the heat he was taking.

On September 06 2012 09:59 Hapahauli wrote:


Perhaps I'm reading this wrong, but isn't he suggesting 4 mafia members in that post? At the time he made that post, I was under the impression that he thought Mattchew was town.

On September 06 2012 10:04 DarthPunk wrote:


Really? Matt, Hapa, Toad, +2.

I really don't understand why you are defending this guy so hard, When you have been really quick to jump all over far less scummy players IMO.

On September 06 2012 10:15 Z-BosoN wrote:


Then why did you say that BC repeated your arguments and said the same thing you did? I clearly gave emphasis to the one he had just added.
Well, we are just at a difference of opinion then, you think that his attitude and behavior is more lynch-worthy than him defending matt and this "scumslip".
I insist yet again you read SolarSail on XXIV, here, it's pretty fast:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359489&user=273717
It sums up why I think his behavior could be more bad play than scum play.

At least now we both agree that without a doubt loloxtott must die.

On September 06 2012 10:20 BloodyC0bbler wrote:



Which game are you referring to. I would like a reference so I can get an idea of his town playstyle.

On September 06 2012 10:28 Ottoxlol wrote:
Come on guys, now you are just embarrassing yourselves. what difference does it make in my post if there are 4-5-6-7-8 scum? If that is a scumslip in your opinion.. I really hope you guys get your shit together

On September 06 2012 10:42 Ottoxlol wrote:
Ofc I don't give a shit about this game anymore when everyone ignores logic, even you failed to answer my question about why the scum would claim.

@Darth I already answered it. It is stupid. You almost uniquely amongst the player realize my motivation but then



This. You fail to see that my behaviour made scum slip, made everyone talk more about why did they vote on Matt. Its exactly what my motivation was. I haven't been called kid in a while, it is offensive since you are the one incapable of understanding the most basic logic.

On September 06 2012 11:04 BloodyC0bbler wrote:



You forgot that he said he doesn't care about the game.

On September 06 2012 11:24 Hapahauli wrote:


Voting is mandatory.

On September 06 2012 12:10 austinmcc wrote:
Black Mamba is one of the nicknames of Kobe Bryant, who wears # 24. He's old and washed up, inaccurate, probably responsible for global warming.

BlackMamba24, BM24, Kobe are all ... that guy, who also has an old account that people are calling DrH, which he's posted under a couple times (DrHelvetica).

Steve Nash is everyone's favorite player ever, who now has the misfortune of playing a team with Kobe.

On September 06 2012 12:17 austinmcc wrote:
Sorry. Steve Nash's teammate = Kobe = Black Mamba = DrH. He appears to be a man of many names.

On September 06 2012 13:27 Z-BosoN wrote:
goodkarma's posting has been very lacking compared to when he was townie. Grush hasn't posted in forever, and Rewok's

On September 06 2012 22:45 Hapahauli wrote:
This is the last I'll say on Ottox, but I'll restate my main point one more time:
"Mafia Ottox" would have known Mattchew's alignment. Given this, it makes no sense for Ottox to hard-defend Mattchew after the lie is confirmed. Think about it - you know your teammate is mafia, and you know the entire thread knows he fakeclaimed. He just lost a member of your team, and his first impulse is to hard defend him?! Not only that, but to roll with it for pages?!

On September 07 2012 17:12 Shady Sands wrote:

Can you please explain how Doyouhas and Hapa can be linked?

On September 07 2012 13:26 DoYouHas wrote:
I think your case has definite merit Hapa. I need to look into it myself before casting a vote. That means tomorrow, because I am done reading this game for tonight.

On September 08 2012 06:23 grush57 wrote:

He said that it wasn't enough to lynch because it wasn't confirmed.After Palmar confirmed him not knowing then he voted for him, like everyone else.

On September 08 2012 06:25 grush57 wrote:
This reminds me of LVI where BKE got mislynched and he was way scummier that game.

On September 08 2012 06:39 grush57 wrote:
Not hard defending him, I'm just pointing out things in your case. He isn't 100% scum, but if it comes down to it I'll probably vote for him.

On September 08 2012 07:13 grush57 wrote:
OK OK I SHEEP LIKE EVERYONE ELSE NOW
##Vote: BroodKingExe
Let's see him flip :D

On September 08 2012 07:35 grush57 wrote:
But.
STARSENSES.
So, will losing a townie help?
That is the question.


Anyways we'll see what BKE flips and we'll go from there.

On September 09 2012 00:31 grush57 wrote:
Sigh, STARSENSES PEOPLE.
I realized it too, whenever I post like 5 times ina row it just completely shits up the thread. The lvdr thing was because when I was going to look at BKE's filter I saw lvdr and a bunch of other lurkers. I NEVER hard defended him I just pointed out a flaw in your case. When I was scum in LVI this scenario happened to BKE. However, BKE is the best candidate right now.

On September 09 2012 00:41 grush57 wrote:

Shady Sands is scum people. Doesn't hop on me till Toad makes a case, ASKS other people's opinion on it and ask if its good, and now he asks me why. WHY U SAY.
BECASUE.......................................................................................................

On September 09 2012 01:15 Toadesstern wrote:
I'm thinking about this claim and I've got to say I don't like lynching BKE right now although I said otherwise an hour ago before thinking this trough.

It just really doesn't make sense right now. The only thing I dislike about BKE's claim is that he claims BM24 was suicide bombed and not BC because I consider BC more likely to be the target, but BM24 being the target isn't out of the ordinary that much.

On top of that with Palmars statement it really could be he's telling the truth and if something like:
Suicide vs BM24
1KP vs BC
1KP vs other vet (myself, maybe Foru or whoever else) or someone being really active (not going to call names here for obvious reasons) who got protected isn't that unlikely at all.

The thing about late switches is they almost always turn out bad because they're not thought through and mafia has an easy time to manipulate. I'm pretty sure that either Shady or Grush is mafia right now and I could see both flipping red (though not both), so we could go for either of those two but as mentioned, those things really go wrong all the time...

On September 09 2012 01:23 Shady Sands wrote:

I'd be willing to hop onto a GRush wagon.

On September 09 2012 01:27 Toadesstern wrote:

Of course it's bad to lynch a watcher but we can't consider that a reason to not lynch him and have to take both lynching a VT and a Watcher as equally bad.
If we don't we're giving mafia the easiest time ever to just get in here "LOL I'm a mad hatter" and everyone insta unvotes because of something that can't be proven at all.
That being said I still dislike the BKE lynch right now and would prefere a grush lynch.

On September 09 2012 01:33 Shady Sands wrote:

Not sure why that's scummy. I made my PoV on GRush pretty clear before you posted your case.

On September 09 2012 01:33 austinmcc wrote:
I'm believing BKE's claim right now. Toad, I see you've changed your tune, but I don't see why you'd claim watcher instead of vig or hatter, doctor, anything that couldn't really be disproven. Everyone IMMEDIATELY jumped on the watcher claim because it was so demonstrably odd based on flips. That's not the right fakeclaim to throw out as mafia. Could be the perfect fakeclaim given that it's so unlikely to be from mafia, but I'm still buying it.

---

I do not want to lynch Grush. Grush is an EASY MISLYNCH EVERY DANG GAME. Moreover, Grush was already slightly pushed earlier. Scum realizes the BKE mislynch may be falling away, just hopping over to a new candidate. Grush is a bad lynch right now, and mafia is using him to get a mislynch even after the BKE wagon fell apart.

---

I would like some serious discussion about Toad as an outside lynch candidate. Will put together some reasoning and posts and get them in here, but I think we should discuss him. Mav deserves a look as an option, he's been popping up as scummy to a lot of people, yet the lynch just laserbeams right onto Grush after BKE, with no discussion of other options. We've got so many people not weighing in here, that just voted BKE yesterday and then haven't been around. Any of those people here? Any thoughts?

On September 09 2012 01:38 Toadesstern wrote:

god why are you calling it a wagon. You're giving me the worst paranoia ever right now

On September 09 2012 01:38 austinmcc wrote:
Scratch that. Lynching Toad would require way more work and way more discussion than I think we're going to get at this point in time. I will put together some stuff, post it this night. I don't think we've got enough time left this day to push a difficult lynch, so we need to look at ... easier options? ... that sounds kind of bad, but hopefully people can understand what I mean. We have limited time to get new candidates and discuss them, and trying to get a lynch on certain targets will be much more difficult than getting a lynch on targets like Grush. Who's seriously not mafia.

On September 09 2012 01:54 Hapahauli wrote:
Bah just woke up. Still catching up in the thread, but I'm surprised to see a couple of people actually thinking BKE is telling the truth after seeing this:



This is impossible no? If GK indeed suicide bombed as many of us are assuming, isn't this a pretty obvious lie?

On September 09 2012 02:01 grush57 wrote:

Because my post that explains it.................................................................................................................................
His posts are asking other players to do things, SOMETHING SCUMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

On September 09 2012 02:02 grush57 wrote:
Anyways, I know who I'll be moving my BOMB on tonight if I survive
Love and Kisses
<3

On September 09 2012 01:27 Toadesstern wrote:
If we don't we're giving mafia the easiest time ever to just get in here "LOL I'm a mad hatter" and everyone insta unvotes because of something that can't be proven at all.

On September 09 2012 02:02 grush57 wrote:
Anyways, I know who I'll be moving my BOMB on tonight if I survive
Love and Kisses
<3

On September 09 2012 02:10 grush57 wrote:
So, some of that was just trolling some of that was truth.
Austinmcc is good at this game.
BTW, Starsenses.
##Unvote
##Vote: Z-Boson

On September 09 2012 02:28 grush57 wrote:
So BKE or Z Boson?

On September 09 2012 02:27 Hapahauli wrote:
Thankfully things are getting active in here again, but I wanted to discuss the BKE fake-claim a bit.

I think all of us agree that the likely order of events last night consisted of double-stacking one person, while suicide bombing the other (between BC and DrH). BKE's watcher claim suggests that it was BC who got double-stacked and BM24 who got suicide-bombed.

Now unless something about the Day2 post suggests otherwise, this seems highly unlikely. BC was much more of a confirmed town (after outing Mattchew) than DrH was. To the average reader here, BC would seem like much more of a target for blue actions (watcher, medic, etc.) during the night. Isn't it much more likely for mafia to have suicide-bombed BC? There would be a much higher chance of blue's visiting BC after he caught the first mafia. I find it so unlikely that DrH was suicide bombed (over BC), and this is why I'm doubting the BKE claim.

On September 09 2012 02:37 Hapahauli wrote:


I'm not disproving anything - I'm saying it's highly unlikely given the dynamics of town Day 1.

I'm talking about likelihood here. If you disagree with this, tell me why instead of spouting this "irrelevant" nonsense.

On September 09 2012 02:38 Hopeless1der wrote:

Scum presumably used 1 KP and bombed.
2nd KP wasnt used? or you think the Mafia shot ottoxlol on our behalf?

On September 09 2012 02:51 strongandbig wrote:


if he was scum and actually delivered a kp on BC - whether they double stacked him or not - then claiming that he watched bc would make his claim proof against the possibility that he was tracked or that there was a real watcher on bc last night.

On September 09 2012 11:50 Shady Sands wrote:

I asked you first, Hapa. Please answer

On September 09 2012 11:59 Hapahauli wrote:
no.

On September 09 2012 12:22 Hapahauli wrote:
And goddamnit, if you want the answer to why I'm calling a shot on ShiaoPi - META. He has barely a page of filter, which is completely inconsistent with any of his other town games. I even said that in my post too - not only are you lurking, but you don't fucking read.

On September 09 2012 13:18 Maverick32x wrote:


Because I don't think mafia would put themselves out there THAT much for someone who was town. Especially considering the amount of lurkers that exist.

On September 09 2012 13:17 Hapahauli wrote:


So you made a read on Grush. You started a counter-wagon against someone who is traditionally the easiest mislynch in the game - someone who is going to behave just like that regardless of alignment. Yay for reads that matter!

Still waiting for an answer to this btw:

[B]On September 09 2012 05:38 Hapahauli wrote:
[b]@ austinmcc

Okay admittedly I'm a bit biased because of my meta-read, and I sat down to take a look at your case again.

The one thing I want some answers from Z-Boson is his ##Vote post:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826&currentpage=21#413

I just don't understand what he's saying here. It's as if he criticizes the reasoning for voting Mattchew, then turns around and votes Mattchew.

On September 09 2012 13:21 Hapahauli wrote:


I'm pissed because you didn't read my initial reasoning. Reading rainboowwwwww.

Well then, am I wrong about suspecting Shiao? Secondly, if you feel that Shady is equally scummy, and deserves my suspicion/whatever, why aren't you questioning him? Really strange person to buddy in the thread.

On September 09 2012 13:44 Hapahauli wrote:
I explained this already. You don't read. I was convinced BKE was scum and pursued other reads.

On September 09 2012 13:47 Hapahauli wrote:






Lol sup scum.

On September 09 2012 14:01 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Shady + DP

This reeks of town on town violence, and I'm done with it. Quite frankly I'm sick of getting tunneled by two townies who aren't reading my posts. Goodnight sirs and see you tomorrow morning.

On September 09 2012 13:59 Hapahauli wrote:

Did you read my case on BKE? Clearly you didn't. I found BKE scummy for the 180 change in opinions over two posts. Z-Boson doesn't have another post to compare to.

On September 09 2012 13:59 Hapahauli wrote:
Please read my 9-page filter and decide my "motivation" then.

On September 09 2012 14:08 Hapahauli wrote:
Ugh fuck going to bed, I need to revenge-tunnel you a bit.

Why didn't you pursue your read of Z-Boson?

On September 09 2012 14:12 Hapahauli wrote:


But lolz why wouldn't town pursue Z-Boson readz if they find it scumy lololololololol

Clearly t3h scum lol.

On September 09 2012 14:14 Hapahauli wrote:


But in all seriousness, you're blaming me for not pursuing Z-Boson when we were on the exact same page about why we thought he was town?

On September 09 2012 16:33 ShiaoPi wrote:
I am in a stupid timezone (HKT) compared to you. I either have to stay up late or wake up early in order to catch the last of the US-timezones discussing, mostly I don't make it, did stay up once and felt trashed afterwards, so no not willing to repeat that. If that is not enough for you to explain my "meta"-switch, can't do more.

On September 09 2012 15:08 Bill Murray wrote:
I'm going to iso someone at random right now.

On September 09 2012 15:10 Bill Murray wrote:

Notice the capitalization of scum, and him seeming to have too much knowledge. Couple that with IIoA and I'm a little suspicious. Sloosh, do you have any meta I can have? A town game, first, possibly a few (like 2 as green 1 as blue), and a scum game?


Logic
can lean towards information instead of analysis
sloosh is someone i'm going to FoS until I can further analyze.

On September 09 2012 20:48 Bill Murray wrote:

even if sloosh is being logical, his points are really just a summation of events as opposed to actually scumhunting
he seems to have more knowledge than I do at this point, but that might not be saying much (Y)

On September 09 2012 22:51 Shady Sands wrote:
And BM please respond to DP's post.

On September 11 2012 19:32 Forumite wrote:
I´ve got too many scumreads and I´m weighing back and forth on some of them. The strongest ones are Z-Boson and Bill Murray, slightly less sure about Mav and Hopeless1der, with about half the rest as scummy. I´ll post the full list before the lynch if it´s still on me.

On September 11 2012 22:25 imallinson wrote:
You posting vague reads on people doesn't help town lynch scum which is the reason everyone is voting for your lynch in the first place.

On September 11 2012 22:50 Forumite wrote:
You need to vote, DP.

I don´t think anything about their relationship, I think they are both scummy on their own merits and focus on that. They could be both scum and distancing themselves from eachother, or one is scum and the other a scummy townie. Or the top three candidates today are all townies and will occupy discussion all the way to a scum victory, who knows? I just think Bill Murray and Z-Boson are the most scummy of all players, I don´t need any other reason to want to lynch them.

On September 09 2012 15:08 Bill Murray wrote:
i cant believe you all lynched BKX
You all need to listen to me, even if I've been drinking lightly.

On September 10 2012 07:43 Bill Murray wrote:
##Vote Forumite

On September 12 2012 12:00 Bill Murray wrote:
i really didnt want to lynch forumite. PERIOD.

On September 12 2012 22:19 Bill Murray wrote:
fuck you darthpunk
im clear town, as i would have killed austinmc n1 if i was mafia
PERIOD

On September 12 2012 22:19 Bill Murray wrote:

um... name another candidate at the time of my voting?
no?
yeah.

On September 12 2012 22:19 Bill Murray wrote:

um... name another candidate at the time of my voting?
no?
yeah.

On September 12 2012 22:50 Kreb wrote:

Of course.

But given the fact that he pretty much told us we should be paranoid as fuck about him (which I very much am) due to how supposedly good he was as mafia, I at least think we could demand a comment. As I said Im not suspicious, Im just paranoid. I trusted him for this lynch, that trust took a bit of a hit. Im wondering if I should renew the trust or not.

On September 12 2012 23:00 Kreb wrote:

Was that directed at me? If so, what question did you refer to?

Im just paranoid. I trusted him for this lynch, that trust took a bit of a hit. Im wondering if I should renew the trust or not

On September 12 2012 23:10 Bill Murray wrote:

I did say I'd not like to lynch forumite BEFORE HIS WAGON STARTED
way to read less than me you obtuse twit

On September 13 2012 12:45 Maverick32x wrote:
Though a decent argument could be started with Darth's latest post...

Its pretty obvious why Toad would be considered 'confirmed town' based off Z-boson's threat that he would take a mafia down with his role..... Sounds like you're playing ignorant? Either way, you avoided my top 3 list, so I'll let it slide.

On September 13 2012 12:55 slOosh wrote:
Not confirmed but it's a strong indicator. There was somewhat of a potential lynch building up against Z-Boson so scum would only have taken the route to shoot for the benefit of 2 deaths for 1 KP. If Toad were scum then they could have just shot someone else and pushed for Z-Boson (as seen from flips supported by town), lynches being the only thing scum are afraid of since I'm pretty sure there aren't any vigs left. We know Toad isn't scum so he is either town or assassin, and in either case we leave him alone.

Let's lynch Graven.

On September 13 2012 15:15 Bill Murray wrote:

if you vote shady, i will gladly join you

On September 13 2012 14:44 Bill Murray wrote:
what a great game so far
we are still in great shape

On September 13 2012 17:52 Bill Murray wrote:

Why, because I'm not scum with you and Sloosh?

On September 13 2012 17:53 Bill Murray wrote:

Who said your reasons are mine? I've been wanting to lynch Shady Sands since the first cycle
I WAS THE FIRST PERSON IN THE GAME TO VOTE HIM
god, you guys are idiots

On September 13 2012 17:53 Bill Murray wrote:

Who said your reasons are mine? I've been wanting to lynch Shady Sands since the first cycle
I WAS THE FIRST PERSON IN THE GAME TO VOTE HIM
god, you guys are idiots

On September 13 2012 19:22 Bill Murray wrote:
##vote: Darth Punk
policy lynch on the village idiot before LYLO?

On September 13 2012 19:19 Toadesstern wrote:


I consider the fact that mafia usually don't shoot themselves a way better indicator for my townieness. Just saying.
Though yeah, when playing mafia I'm pretty bold but I doubt I'd be that nuts.

On September 13 2012 19:37 Toadesstern wrote:
Oh I also don't think there's a medic. Should have probably told you about that earlier considering Z-bosons entire plan was based on being saved by the medic. Didn't think about that in time

On September 13 2012 22:36 Shady Sands wrote:

Why not Gravan is my question. I have a scumread on MMToss too, but he can wait until tomorrow. Why not Gravan is my question today.

On September 05 2012 09:38 Gravan wrote:
First, the straightforward part. It seems to me that Matt is most likely an assassin, or a very careless player.

As many have said before me, there is no case for him to do what he did from a town perspective. To me, it seems that if he were mafia or town, we would likely have seen at least some kind of attempt at an explanation - either to strengthen his fellow mafia by giving them 'towncred' as they jump on his bandwagon or to try to convince us we are making a mistake as a town blue. As an assassin, he could just be seeing his end and giving up - this is of course moot if he decides to put in his piece later.

Since he is apparently not a random newbie (who is a random newb, anyway ?), and clearly likes to be an active player, it shouts assasinto me.

Since it is day 1 and we only have so much information, we essentially have to lynch him anyway (even if we were nearly certain he is an assassin. At this time, I'll be throwing my vote his way.

The post where I make my comments on the information currently present (as in, not to do with the matt bandwagon) is coming up later. I just wanted to put down somehing somewhat solid so thanI can start to develop a post hostory, watery as it might be.

On September 09 2012 10:43 Rewok wrote:


I get where you're coming from. After today's vote, I'm pretty shaky on my position as well.

The truth is: I made cases for Mattchew, BKE and Mav. Pretty much the same as every other town in this game.

If you're going to try to prove me red, you've got to prove every other player as well (minus the lukers.)

All I can say is this: I'm gonna need a ton of reading before I put down another vote like that one.

On September 11 2012 04:07 Rewok wrote:
I've been wrong every time I voted on my own instinct and right the time I followed Toade so my vote is for Forumite.

##vote: Forumite

On September 05 2012 09:48 Rewok wrote:
Been keeping up my reading. Here's how the situation seems to me:

We're voting Mattchew today. Pretty much no getting out of that. If he turns up scum, Ottox and a few others could be on the chopping block. If he's town, we've got a whole new set of reads.

But it seems to me that our whole strategy hinges on how Mattchew turns up after he's killed. Is there any way we can get another read / another kill set up for D1? One which doesn't hinge on Mattchew's alignment?

I'm asking because you guys are way more familiar with the way TL mafia runs.

On September 06 2012 11:44 Rewok wrote:
Been keeping up on this, just nothing to add. I thought Matt would flip red, he did, so I'm suspicious of Otto still.

Until Otto is cleared or dead, I don't have much else to add. Great D1 though :-)

On September 09 2012 07:29 Hapahauli wrote:
Rewok

Since BKE flipped town, this caught my eye:



First he's hesitant to lynch BKE. Then he wants to vote for him because "it's better to get some blood than no blood" - NOT because he thinks BKE is mafia.

He then points fingers at two people (Mav and ShiaoPi).

Vigi shot anyone?

On September 14 2012 13:00 slOosh wrote:
For Rewok it's looking a lot like Graven. It's his first game and he does show uncertainty at the earlier stages. My feeling is that he is overwhelmed by the unnatural amount of things in this game (flipping scum N1, getting multiple washout mislynches , people like Grush and BM getting ignored) that he has just given up and fallen back on sheeping, which is a very understandable thing for a lost townie to do.

SnB and Toad are not as easily excused as they have many games under their belt and are capable of so much more, and yet are completely apathetic and are not contributing to finding and lynching scum.

On September 14 2012 17:51 Bill Murray wrote:

You all need to listen to me

On September 17 2012 17:18 ShiaoPi wrote:
hey shady mind popping into the thread instead of blogging away? IF you are town (quite a huge stretch now imo) you should be here sharing reads and stuff or trying to convince us otherwise, right now you are like mattchew when his fakeclaim got snuffed out.

@Darthpunk:
What are your thoughts right now?

On September 15 2012 08:06 Shady Sands wrote:
[snip]
I have a few other players who look scummy to me:
Rewok
ShiaoPi
Mementoss
DarthPunk

I'm going to be looking through their filters and will get something out before the daypost.

Final note: in case this isn't obvious already, S&B lynch should serve as strong town-tells for Sloosh and Hopeless1der.

On September 17 2012 18:15 Bill Murray wrote:

this is really, really scummy

On September 17 2012 18:14 Bill Murray wrote:
^notice my vote on shadysands... before the thread?
nice OMGUS DarthPunk, considering I've been calling you scum for days

On September 17 2012 18:39 Kreb wrote:
Darth Punk has also gone very much under the radar, dont think anyone has ever brought up anything on him, so that might be another reason for everyone to take a serious look at him. Should he be scum it should be possible to find something on him, compared to Rewok/Grush.

On September 17 2012 22:35 ShiaoPi wrote:
I actually am starting to get a little paranoid about this lynch. Objectively Shady does look like the best lynch imo, but the lack of resistance to it got me worried >_> (unless we count rewok's silent objection)

On September 17 2012 23:11 ShiaoPi wrote:
ugh thread is as dead as it can get >_>

anyone else here NOT from East Asia/Australia?

On September 18 2012 04:45 grush57 wrote:

Yay another post blindly calling me a troll without reading thread.
ANYWAYS BOYS WE GOT THE NEXT DAY SCUM LYNCH

On September 18 2012 04:13 Bill Murray wrote:
" Now both are bussing me "
DarthPunk is bussing you? Good to know.

On September 17 2012 23:20 Kreb wrote:
Its usually dead around now since its work/school time for EU and sleep time for NA.

Plus, its quite obvious whos gonna get lynched. Some talk about whats coming after doesnt hurt, but a lot still depends on the flip.

On September 17 2012 23:24 Kreb wrote:
Unless someone comes in like sloosh did with S&B that is. Or Shady makes an effort to prevent it. Other than those options its kinda downtime atm....

On September 18 2012 07:48 Kreb wrote:
That was a wasted 48h.....

Also, didnt Rewok miss the vote?

On September 18 2012 16:27 Kreb wrote:
Ehm? Is that a troll or are you just fishing for a reaction or something?

What I see is a handful of sentences stating what the state of the thread is. I even go as far as to say that "Some talk about whats coming after doesnt hurt". Not gonna claim I encouraged discussion exactly either, because I wasnt. But please, do elaborate on how I "encouraged the non activity" and "made by best efforts" (I wonder what my worst efforts look like if thats my best....) to waste 48h.

You're accusing me of shutting down a (highly contributory?) discussion which wasnt there. If you two guys had something to say, YOU should have said it. Im supposed to be responsible for you two not sharing possibly vital information by stating the situation?

On September 18 2012 16:57 Kreb wrote:
You're not elaborating very well. You have called it "encouraging non activity", "making my best efforts to waste 48h" and now its "ladded nothing apart from letting you know it was pointless". You're saying the same thing three times and use one of the three things to back up the other. Its like saying "this is great because its awesome". But then why is it awesome?

Explain like Im 5 years old: Where do I do this?

On September 18 2012 10:08 DarthPunk wrote:
Kreb demonstrated some pretty clearly anti town behaviour during the shady bandwagon. Shiao Pi and I were trying to get some discussion going and kreb joins the thread to pretty much shut it down and encourage the non activity that was the previous status quo during the last cycle.







He then goes on to state that the past 48 hours were wasted. despite making every NO effort to ensure that was WASN'T the case. Clearly anti town behaviour. I don't think this makes him scum for sure. But if we throw away the assumption that no scum Bussed S&B then it looks pretty suspicious.

On September 18 2012 17:26 Kreb wrote:

Yes, very much. I can agree with the last part now (still not agreeing with "encouraging non activity"). Its absolutely true I made no effort to stop it. I saw no point since we were quite unanimous and it would have felt very "forced" trying to find an alternative target when we were already happy with the current one. I thought thats how everyone was reasoning, considering no one made an effort to stop the (mis)lynch. Oh well.

On September 18 2012 17:44 Kreb wrote:

As far as I understand, the anti town part I did was not pushing this discussion you mention. If thats anti town to you, then I agree I acted anti town. However, then I also think everyone acted anti town, because no one did push it.

On September 18 2012 09:26 Kreb wrote:
Worth noting on Grush too: Hes called lots of people scummy, but the following three posts were the only three I could find where he was (very very soft) defending people.

On the BKE case:


On a post made by Z-Boson targetted at S&B:




These are the only times he attempted to defend someone. One flipped green, but he also expressed that he'd be willing to vote for him. One flipped red. The third is still in the game (and Im very suspicious of).

On September 09 2012 01:07 DarthPunk wrote:
OK 1:30 am Have only skimmed the thread. Been playing LOL and GW2. So I need to get a vote down ASAP. I am not going to vote for the blue claim. That is just retarded. BKE is not the best lynch. If he is lying it will become apparent. It is a short sighted play for scum. Far too risky. Super tired. But Grush is scum.

He defends BKE after hapa's case.





When called out on it he backs away at a million miles an hour.









He sheep's after being pressured. But hints that he thinks/knows BKE will Flip green.

He then moves from attacking the case on BKE to stating it is the best case we have. AFTER HE CLAIMS BLUE. Which if anything should make him doubt the case even more. But he transitions from sceptic to sheeping to pushing.




Yep this is too weird. It seems like he was trying to gain town cred from questioning a mislynch. Hints at inside info and reference the flip constantly like he knows he will flip green. When he is revealed to be blue he changes tack and goes from doubting TO PUSHING FOR THE LYNCH OF A CLAIMED WATCHER. This should if anything make him doubt the BKE lynch even more than he had already expressed, but it does the opposite.

##Vote: grush57

Caveat: This case is somewhat associative in that it assumes that BKE is telling the truth. However I am 100% against lynching a blue claim as previous games/coaching have told me this is a mistake. If BKE is lying it should be relatively easy to catch later on. He is a bad lynch. Don't do it.

Night guys.

On September 09 2012 01:13 DarthPunk wrote:
Wait. There is more. When I just posted in the Voting thread it seems as If he has unvoted BKE and moved to Shady despite posting that BKE was the best candidate. The reasoning?


This kid is suspicious as hell. BKE. Please read my case on grush and give me your thoughts. I am delaying bed for a bit because I think lynching a blue claim is a huge mistake and would like to find and consolidate another candidate.

On September 09 2012 01:59 DarthPunk wrote:
I am not suspicious of grush because he acts like an idiot or because his posting is bad. I am suspicious because he defends BKE and then backs away from it. Sheeps his case whilst hinting that he will flip green. When BKE claims he is suddenly certain when the natural inclination would be to further doubt the case against BKE. He then trashes his vote onto shady for no reason whatsoever. Despite calling BKE the best case right now.

-Motive:

Gain town cred by questioning what he knows will be a mislynch.

When he claims blue push the lynch to avoid medic saves and a NK

I have no fucking clue why he voted for shady so I will leave it at that.

On September 19 2012 13:43 ShiaoPi wrote:


I'm tracker read the damn thread >_>

On September 19 2012 13:50 ShiaoPi wrote:
also grush looks more like his towntroll-version, imo. bm would be worth a consideration but i feel better about allinson right now. cant do more heavy analysis since i am on my phone in class atm

On September 19 2012 14:00 ShiaoPi wrote:
DP talk to meeee..... only us in here right now anyway

On September 19 2012 14:05 ShiaoPi wrote:

its based on meta. hard to explain, but he does not feel like th TLVI in which he was scum.
why does BM has to be scum if allinson is? Where do you see the connection? or just elimination?

On September 19 2012 14:35 ShiaoPi wrote:
I'll be posting again later. Just for the record I'd rather lynch allinson today. out for now

On September 19 2012 17:22 ShiaoPi wrote:
Okay I am pretty sure that the scumteam is Imallinson and Darthpunk.

---

Why?

First off imallinson:

All the things I pointed out in the night are still valid. Seeing Hopeless' flip actually strengthens the suspicion that I had about Imallinson switching to look "good" after a Gravan mislynch. As Hopeless was town he simply did not anticipate him switching 3 minutes prior to deadline. Imallinson switched 6 minutes prior to deadline, as hopeless was not posting during the time, I say that it was a pretty safe bet to have "bussed" SnB without the need to flip him, with a consequential gravan mislynch. As we know now, Hopeless messed that up. Imallinsons defense:



is only valid if Hopeless would have been red. He flipped green and now it gets even more obvious that imallinsons voteswitch was not consequential if Hopeless had not hammered SnB last minute. Since the daypost imallinson has not been to the thread again, I say he is scum. Hopefully (troll)town is willing to go along with me on this vote.

##vote: Imallinson


On to Darthpunk:

I know I had him pegged as town the night before, but him wanting to lynch into BM/grush which is basically a coinflip is pretty damning in my eyes, also add the things I listed the night prior with buddying (it happened in this day-phase again) and the weird accusations thrown at Kreb. Obviously part of my read hinges on the fact that we I am connecting DP with Imallinson. There is also another interesting thing about the interactions between the two. Starting this day DP started to address imallinson as "she" (I have no clue about imallinsons gender) but nowhere in the thread did imallinson said that "she" was a girl and wanted to be adressed as such. That only leaves the option that they must have been communicating in private----> read ScumQT!
Also his posts today have been pretty defending towards imallinson, while I continued to add pressure on him/her. Why? He even says that imallinsons filter is:



Note that his first argument is firstly not really an argument as we have to take his sentence about his alignment at facevalue, but also why is it likely for imallinson to be town if she was pushed by gravan? Gravan flipped green.....It makes no fucking sense at all. I already invalidated the SnB switch argument which would be in favor of a green imallinson, so how can someone with "standard lurker fare" be a townread?

---

Yeah, if my trolly town-friends are willing to follow my reads we got this in the bag.

Lynch imallinson today, lynch Darthpunk tomorrow and we won. GG!

it also kind of happened as process of elimination. I'm not scum, I don't think that grush is scum right now. BM I am unsure of but I am pretty sure on imallinson and when he/she flips red DP is red as well.

Gogo my troll-friends! Put down those votes!

On September 19 2012 20:34 imallinson wrote:

If anything I'd say Hopeless being killed makes me look more town. Why, if I was scum, would I base my defence on someone who I know is going to die and who's dying makes me look really bad. I haven't been here since the day post due to trying to sleep/a bit of actually sleeping/waking up feeling like shit. If you look at my previous posting I've always either posted something quick if I had a strong read after the day post or nothing at all. As for the supposed bus of SnB it would make no sense from a scum perspective. Although I wouldn't know hopeless was around I knew Gravan was and if I was scum would have known he was town and would have switched his vote. As for who I think is scum I think Grush and BM look like a really obvious scum team. Your reason for for not thinking that is meta based and we've already had a terrible mislynch based on meta so I'm reluctant to go on that again. Both Grush and BM have been very anti town all game. You I see as definitely town because there is no reason for you to fake claim when you did. Darth is possibly scum but has generally played pro town so I'm much less sure about it than Grush or BM.
##Vote: Grush

On September 19 2012 20:44 ShiaoPi wrote:
If gravan had been mislynched, imallinson would have looked much better than all of us who were on Gravan, easily could have swayed town to lynch either SnB the next day, which would give imallinson even more town cred, or lynch one of the bandwagoners on gravan

On September 19 2012 20:49 ShiaoPi wrote:
DP thanks for claiming scum, splitting up towns (assuming you are town) votes at lylo makes no fucking sense from a town perspective since we need every vote of town on a single candidate to avoid a loss.
Nice outing as scumpartner of imallinson.

You said you are fine with lynching either grush or BM, your supposedly null-read votes one of your candidates and you change to the other? It would only make sense if you thought imallinson to be scum, but then you should vote with the confirmed townie (hint: me) onto imallinson...

I am pretty sure now:
Imallinson/Darthpunk are our scumteam!

On September 19 2012 21:21 ShiaoPi wrote:
If I am right on allinson how about voting with me?

On September 19 2012 21:30 ShiaoPi wrote:
hahah DP, read the thread please

I voiced suspicions on allinson the night before:
+ Show Spoiler +
copied it again for you, add it up to the way he "defended" himself and its fucking clear he is scum :D
I am not tying a scumread on imallinson with your alignment, its the other way around! You are scum as soon as I got the confirmation of imallinson's red flip. EASY

I said it more than enough times already. Your post makes no sense, if I tied imallinsons alignment to yours I would lynch you first! I'm not, capiche?! :D :D :D
Since you are as good as confirmed scum to me, I won't be able to convince you of your red alignment anyway :D

My dear friend if I have gone pants on head, you have gone socks on ears!!!

On September 19 2012 21:37 ShiaoPi wrote:
Aaah, the sweet smell of scum tears in the evening, it tastes of victory!

On September 19 2012 21:43 ShiaoPi wrote:
It gets easier to convince grush and BM onto you after allinson flips red, however if they both want to off you first, I will happily switch and still enjoy a town victory, but since they are not here right now, I am staying put

On September 19 2012 21:47 ShiaoPi wrote:
hahaha :D
Even if I switch now, it won't matter, since I need both of my favorite trolls to sheep me right now
Also, who are you kidding, your gonna flip red! xD