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On September 09 2012 12:37 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 12:31 Hapahauli wrote:
He's the only one I don't have some form of a bad-town read on.
As for why over you - you actually have a filter. Not reading is also consistent with your town meta. Why? What has he posted that shows a scum read as opposed to bad-town?
1) ShiaoPi has a reasonably active town-meta. ShiaoPi has no scum meta.
2) ShiaoPi is hardcore lurking this game, "internet issues" cited, but were not mentioned pre-game (odd, considering severity). His activity is very different from his 6 town games.
He certainly hasn't posted anything that makes me think he's town. Some other newer players have posts that show effort, but ShiaoPi has shown none. As far as I'm concerned, the above makes him scummy. If he'd like to defend himself and convince me otherwise, he should take the opportunity to do so.
Should I hold your hand too, or will that suffice?
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And as far as I'm concerned Shady, you've posted jack-shit in terms of your reads.
Put-up or shut-up.
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On September 09 2012 12:14 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 12:02 DarthPunk wrote:On September 09 2012 11:50 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 11:47 Hapahauli wrote:On September 09 2012 11:42 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 11:17 Hapahauli wrote:I retract my vigi-shot call on Rewok. He mentions the "lynch for blood" stuff earlier in his filter, and I'm willing to chalk it up to bad town. His giant wall-o-text posts giving everyone null-reads actually reads town to me - seems like a genuine attempt to contribute, despite being useless. However, I do think we should look into vigi-shotting ShiaoPi. Shiao is hardcore lurking in comparison to his other games as VT. Absolutely no content in Shaio's filter, and there are a couple of posts that fingerpoint like mad:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=47#929
Shaio originally wasn't posting because of "internet concerns." I believed Shiao at the time, but now it's becoming a habit. Why are you calling for a vig shot on Shiao for lurking and no call for a vig shot on me for lurking? I'm fingerpointing too. Do you think you're a better vig shot than Shaio? Do tell. I asked you first, Hapa. Please answer Yeah Hapa. Stop answering questions with questions. You have been extremely selective with your scum reads this game. I would also like to know why shaio over shady. Also how could you see Ottox as not scummy and BKE with a plausible watcher claim guaranteed scum. I am going to take a close look at your filter and XXI. Something is off about you. I agree. [b]Hapa's usually a pretty good scumhunter. His posts on Ottox in particular are just strange; almost inviting a vigi hit on Ottox but backing away enough to give himself plausible deniability. Town Hapa ([b]in Newbie Mini XXIII) didn't play like this.
Oh haha I missed this - weren't you ranting for pages about me cheating in that game and getting lucky? Sounds like someone twisting meta to their own advantage.
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On September 09 2012 12:53 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 12:49 Hapahauli wrote:
And as far as I'm concerned Shady, you've posted jack-shit in terms of your reads.
Put-up or shut-up. Right, because nearly starting a counter-wagon to the BKE mislynch on grush57 does not qualify as a read. And in case you're wondering, right you and him are my top scumreads.
You made a case on GRush - if you think that's an actual read, you either haven't seen GRush play or you're smoking something that I want real bad right now.
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On September 09 2012 13:15 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 12:59 Hapahauli wrote:On September 09 2012 12:53 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 12:49 Hapahauli wrote:
And as far as I'm concerned Shady, you've posted jack-shit in terms of your reads.
Put-up or shut-up. Right, because nearly starting a counter-wagon to the BKE mislynch on grush57 does not qualify as a read. And in case you're wondering, right you and him are my top scumreads. You made a case on GRush - if you think that's an actual read, you either haven't seen GRush play or you're smoking something that I want real bad right now. Cases and reads are equivalent. If you think they're different, then, you, sir, are the drug addict.
So you made a read on Grush. You started a counter-wagon against someone who is traditionally the easiest mislynch in the game - someone who is going to behave just like that regardless of alignment. Yay for reads that matter!
Still waiting for an answer to this btw:
On September 09 2012 12:52 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 12:14 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 12:02 DarthPunk wrote:On September 09 2012 11:50 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 11:47 Hapahauli wrote:On September 09 2012 11:42 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 11:17 Hapahauli wrote:I retract my vigi-shot call on Rewok. He mentions the "lynch for blood" stuff earlier in his filter, and I'm willing to chalk it up to bad town. His giant wall-o-text posts giving everyone null-reads actually reads town to me - seems like a genuine attempt to contribute, despite being useless. However, I do think we should look into vigi-shotting ShiaoPi. Shiao is hardcore lurking in comparison to his other games as VT. Absolutely no content in Shaio's filter, and there are a couple of posts that fingerpoint like mad:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=47#929
Shaio originally wasn't posting because of "internet concerns." I believed Shiao at the time, but now it's becoming a habit. Why are you calling for a vig shot on Shiao for lurking and no call for a vig shot on me for lurking? I'm fingerpointing too. Do you think you're a better vig shot than Shaio? Do tell. I asked you first, Hapa. Please answer Yeah Hapa. Stop answering questions with questions. You have been extremely selective with your scum reads this game. I would also like to know why shaio over shady. Also how could you see Ottox as not scummy and BKE with a plausible watcher claim guaranteed scum. I am going to take a close look at your filter and XXI. Something is off about you. I agree. [b]Hapa's usually a pretty good scumhunter. His posts on Ottox in particular are just strange; almost inviting a vigi hit on Ottox but backing away enough to give himself plausible deniability. Town Hapa ([b]in Newbie Mini XXIII) didn't play like this. Oh haha I missed this - weren't you ranting for pages about me cheating in that game and getting lucky? Sounds like someone twisting meta to their own advantage.
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On September 09 2012 13:18 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 12:22 Hapahauli wrote:
And goddamnit, if you want the answer to why I'm calling a shot on ShiaoPi - META. He has barely a page of filter, which is completely inconsistent with any of his other town games. I even said that in my post too - not only are you lurking, but you don't fucking read. Why are you upset that we wanted you to provide a reason for you Vig shot? and Shady is right. his meta is also WAY WAY off from all his other games. and yet you single out Shiao.
I'm pissed because you didn't read my initial reasoning. Reading rainboowwwwww.
Well then, am I wrong about suspecting Shiao? Secondly, if you feel that Shady is equally scummy, and deserves my suspicion/whatever, why aren't you questioning him? Really strange person to buddy in the thread.
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On September 09 2012 13:22 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 13:17 Hapahauli wrote:On September 09 2012 13:15 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 12:59 Hapahauli wrote:On September 09 2012 12:53 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 12:49 Hapahauli wrote:
And as far as I'm concerned Shady, you've posted jack-shit in terms of your reads.
Put-up or shut-up. Right, because nearly starting a counter-wagon to the BKE mislynch on grush57 does not qualify as a read. And in case you're wondering, right you and him are my top scumreads. You made a case on GRush - if you think that's an actual read, you either haven't seen GRush play or you're smoking something that I want real bad right now. Cases and reads are equivalent. If you think they're different, then, you, sir, are the drug addict. So you made a read on Grush. You started a counter-wagon against someone who is traditionally the easiest mislynch in the game - someone who is going to behave just like that regardless of alignment. Yay for reads that matter! Still waiting for an answer to this btw: On September 09 2012 12:52 Hapahauli wrote:On September 09 2012 12:14 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 12:02 DarthPunk wrote:On September 09 2012 11:50 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 11:47 Hapahauli wrote:On September 09 2012 11:42 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 11:17 Hapahauli wrote:I retract my vigi-shot call on Rewok. He mentions the "lynch for blood" stuff earlier in his filter, and I'm willing to chalk it up to bad town. His giant wall-o-text posts giving everyone null-reads actually reads town to me - seems like a genuine attempt to contribute, despite being useless. However, I do think we should look into vigi-shotting ShiaoPi. Shiao is hardcore lurking in comparison to his other games as VT. Absolutely no content in Shaio's filter, and there are a couple of posts that fingerpoint like mad:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=361826¤tpage=47#929
Shaio originally wasn't posting because of "internet concerns." I believed Shiao at the time, but now it's becoming a habit. Why are you calling for a vig shot on Shiao for lurking and no call for a vig shot on me for lurking? I'm fingerpointing too. Do you think you're a better vig shot than Shaio? Do tell. I asked you first, Hapa. Please answer Yeah Hapa. Stop answering questions with questions. You have been extremely selective with your scum reads this game. I would also like to know why shaio over shady. Also how could you see Ottox as not scummy and BKE with a plausible watcher claim guaranteed scum. I am going to take a close look at your filter and XXI. Something is off about you. I agree. [b]Hapa's usually a pretty good scumhunter. His posts on Ottox in particular are just strange; almost inviting a vigi hit on Ottox but backing away enough to give himself plausible deniability. Town Hapa ( in Newbie Mini XXIII) didn't play like this. Oh haha I missed this - weren't you ranting for pages about me cheating in that game and getting lucky? Sounds like someone twisting meta to their own advantage. What does grush's prior meta have to do with the fact that he's behaving anti-town? If a player traditionally trolls all the time like YH or Chez, do we just give them a free pass?
1) you're championing a worthless read - he [b]always is anti-town regardless of alignment.
2) you can call it a "free pass" or whatever, but as it stands, there's no indication if he's town or scum. I like my chances building a case on a player that's actually readable at this point in the game - better than a 75/25 town/scum chance on Grush (or however the town/scum numbers are in this game).
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On September 09 2012 13:29 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 13:27 Hapahauli wrote:On September 09 2012 13:22 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 13:17 Hapahauli wrote:On September 09 2012 13:15 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 12:59 Hapahauli wrote:On September 09 2012 12:53 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 12:49 Hapahauli wrote:
And as far as I'm concerned Shady, you've posted jack-shit in terms of your reads.
Put-up or shut-up. Right, because nearly starting a counter-wagon to the BKE mislynch on grush57 does not qualify as a read. And in case you're wondering, right you and him are my top scumreads. You made a case on GRush - if you think that's an actual read, you either haven't seen GRush play or you're smoking something that I want real bad right now. Cases and reads are equivalent. If you think they're different, then, you, sir, are the drug addict. So you made a read on Grush. You started a counter-wagon against someone who is traditionally the easiest mislynch in the game - someone who is going to behave just like that regardless of alignment. Yay for reads that matter! Still waiting for an answer to this btw: On September 09 2012 12:52 Hapahauli wrote:On September 09 2012 12:14 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 12:02 DarthPunk wrote:On September 09 2012 11:50 Shady Sands wrote:On September 09 2012 11:47 Hapahauli wrote:On September 09 2012 11:42 Shady Sands wrote:
[quote]
Why are you calling for a vig shot on Shiao for lurking and no call for a vig shot on me for lurking? I'm fingerpointing too. Do you think you're a better vig shot than Shaio? Do tell. I asked you first, Hapa. Please answer Yeah Hapa. Stop answering questions with questions. You have been extremely selective with your scum reads this game. I would also like to know why shaio over shady. Also how could you see Ottox as not scummy and BKE with a plausible watcher claim guaranteed scum. I am going to take a close look at your filter and XXI. Something is off about you. I agree. [b]Hapa's usually a pretty good scumhunter. His posts on Ottox in particular are just strange; almost inviting a vigi hit on Ottox but backing away enough to give himself plausible deniability. Town Hapa ( in Newbie Mini XXIII) didn't play like this. Oh haha I missed this - weren't you ranting for pages about me cheating in that game and getting lucky? Sounds like someone twisting meta to their own advantage. What does grush's prior meta have to do with the fact that he's behaving anti-town? If a player traditionally trolls all the time like YH or Chez, do we just give them a free pass? 1) you're championing a worthless read - he [b]always is anti-town regardless of alignment. 2) you can call it a "free pass" or whatever, but as it stands, there's no indication if he's town or scum. I like my chances building a case on a player that's actually readable at this point in the game - better than a 75/25 town/scum chance on Grush (or however the town/scum numbers are in this game). If he's always anti-town, shouldn't he be a more valid target for a vigi hit than a lurker?
So you want to vigi hit a bad player rather than scum?
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On September 09 2012 13:28 Shady Sands wrote:
Anyhow, here's why I think Hapa needs to get whacked:
D1, he soft-defends Mattchew until Sloosh gives him an easy out... then immediately tries to divert to Miltonkram.
Hard pushes Ottox, then goes back and soft-defends him once the entire town is on the wagon.
But when a lynch is on the line, pushes on BKE wagon regardless of what other people say. Why? He says BKE is scum because BKE went from a hard push on Ottox to a soft defense of Ottox. Pot. Kettle. Black. This + scumwagon on BKE was enough to get town to vote him.
Finally, Hapa is usually an excellent town player. I have no idea why scum is letting him live this long, nor why he hasn't contributed better original reads than the ones he has.
##Vote Hapahauli
You ain't reading Shady. You never have, and you never will.
I'm not going to defend the stuff on Mattchew/Ottox whatever - if you read my filter, I give the reasoning for every single one of those.
The bolded is proof that you don't read the thread. I created the case on BKE, I pushed for his case based on much more than his vote for Ottox (Mattchew "fail-bus").
Thirdly, you think scum would shoot me over two of the best players on TL? (DrH + BC) Lol.
Like if you're town, you're doing your damndest to look as scummy as possible.
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On September 09 2012 13:32 Shady Sands wrote:
Basically, a lurker playing off his meta is a little less pressing a concern than someone who actively goes around and shits up the thread while making themselves unreadable. Why? Scum will never kill them, so they'll end up surviving. As the game draws closer and closer to MYLO/LYLO that player becomes more and more damaging to town. I made that mistake with Chez in Normal Mini III and I'm not making it again here.
So stop being a pussy about it and call the shot.
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@ DP
So you felt that Ottox was town despite the fact he was scummy as shit. And you think Grush is town Despite looking scummy as shit. But you were 100% positive on BKE and tunnelled him all of day 2 without changing your read or your case because he 'flip-flopped' on Matt. DESPITE HIS CLAIM and with several of us making counter arguments?
Based on Flip flopping on Matt.
Good lord. I didn't think Ottox was scummy when I was defending him. For the 10000th time, hard defending confirmed scum isn't scummy - it's horribad town, and I made that clear so many times.
Yes I thought BKE was scummy. That's why I pushed for his lynch all day. I didn't believe his claim, as with like 16 other people in the thread.
I posted this on day one. You ignored it. Z - boson was similarly guilty. If you thought BKE was scum based on his interactions around Matt then you should have found Z - Boson suspicious also. And yet you don't mention him at all UNTIL Austin brings him up.
So what? I didn't pick up on it. The fact that I actually acknowledged it with austinmcc should tell you that I took it seriously when I found it. Again, at the time, I had a town-meta read on Z-Boson. I'm leaning town once again on Z-Boson after looking through his filter a couple of hours ago.
You repeat what I posted day one and what Austin had been saying. It is suspicious as hell and yet you continue to tunnel BKE. And state that Z - Boson is town.
You are being very selective on who you believe is scum/town and it is based on no shared thought processes from what I can see.
I explained this already. You don't read. I was convinced BKE was scum and pursued other reads.
And don't give me this selective shit. I've made the most reads out of anyone this game.
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If he's always anti-town, shouldn't he be a more valid target for a vigi hit than a lurker?
Basically, a lurker playing off his meta is a little less pressing a concern than someone who actively goes around and shits up the thread while making themselves unreadable. Why? Scum will never kill them, so they'll end up surviving. As the game draws closer and closer to MYLO/LYLO that player becomes more and more damaging to town. I made that mistake with Chez in Normal Mini III and I'm not making it again here.
On September 09 2012 13:40 Shady Sands wrote:
No, I'm calling for the shot on you and calling for the lynch on grush. I know I can get grush lynched, given how anti-town he's playing. You're a tougher nut to crack, especially with scumbuddies and misguided townies to soft-defend you.
Lol sup scum.
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On September 09 2012 13:53 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 13:44 Hapahauli wrote:
I explained this already. You don't read. I was convinced BKE was scum and pursued other reads. So you pursued a town read on Z-boson? Is that what I am missing. You obviously don't read as you fail to understand the point.
Where the hell do you get that from? I had a town-read on Z-Boson at that point in the game and was pursuing other reads (MiltonKram). Why would I pursue someone I have a town read on.
My question is, if you found Z-boson so scummy, why didn't you pursue your read on him?
You found Z - Boson Townie and BKE scummy despite doing extremely similar things based on the Mattchew flip which was the basis for you entire case.
Did you read my case on BKE? Clearly you didn't. I found BKE scummy for the 180 change in opinions over two posts. Z-Boson doesn't have another post to compare to.
Show nested quote +And don't give me this selective shit. I've made the most reads out of anyone this game. So you have made the most reads in the game? Too bad this means jack shit. And that does NOT EXPLAIN YOUR MOTIVATION.
So you admit you're wrong about your "Selective" thing? Please read my 9-page filter and decide my "motivation" then.
Let me make it clear. You are a heuristic that process the same information and arrives at different conclusions. That is why you are selective. I said jack shit about the quantity of your posts. I am talking about the content. But thanks for trying to once again derail the discussion.
That's not the definition of selectivity that I know of.
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@ Shady + DP
This reeks of town on town violence, and I'm done with it. Quite frankly I'm sick of getting tunneled by two townies who aren't reading my posts. Goodnight sirs and see you tomorrow morning.
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Last bit before I go to bed - am I not allowed to change my mind in an emotional conversation?
w/e, believe what you want.
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On September 09 2012 14:04 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 13:59 Hapahauli wrote:
Did you read my case on BKE? Clearly you didn't. I found BKE scummy for the 180 change in opinions over two posts. Z-Boson doesn't have another post to compare to.
Right so because Z -Boson did a 180 degree in ONE POST and not TWO BKE was scum and ZB was town?
Goddamnit you make it so hard for me to sleep.
BKE was scum because of the 180 + other scummy stuff in his filter (ottox stances). I was wrong, and a bunch of townies were wrong with me.
In the context of Z-Boson's play, I think he's town. Yes I find that post suspicious. Yes I acknowledged it with austinmcc's play. Yes I was thinking about that post earlier this night. However given the rest of Z-Boson's play and looking at his scum filter in XXIV, I think Z-Boson is town.
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Ugh fuck going to bed, I need to revenge-tunnel you a bit.
Why didn't you pursue your read of Z-Boson?
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On September 09 2012 14:11 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 14:08 Hapahauli wrote:
Ugh fuck going to bed, I need to revenge-tunnel you a bit.
Why didn't you pursue your read of Z-Boson? Because I am lazy. Matt was being Lynched and Z- Boson seemed to post a lot better later on.
But lolz why wouldn't town pursue Z-Boson readz if they find it scumy lololololololol
Clearly t3h scum lol.
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On September 09 2012 14:11 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 09 2012 14:08 Hapahauli wrote:
Ugh fuck going to bed, I need to revenge-tunnel you a bit.
Why didn't you pursue your read of Z-Boson? Because I am lazy. Matt was being Lynched and Z- Boson seemed to post a lot better later on.
But in all seriousness, you're blaming me for not pursuing Z-Boson when we were on the exact same page about why we thought he was town?
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EPT
