TL Mafia LVII - Page 4

Toadesstern

I am pretty sure Toad is scum for sure, he has been on the scummy side of everything so far in this game and his play just seems to emulate scum play.

Part I: Leading the Town/ Look at me Im town:

I understand in every town, there is gunna be a townie who is going to try to lead the town, or at least be the most active player in the game. That happens, that is good because it generates discussion. However, Toad realizes the amount of newer players and lurkers in this game, espeically after Night 1 and decides to capitalize. He doesn't just state his positions, and try to generate discussion, but he posts in a way such to say, follow me to the grave and what I say is right no matter what. Examples are these big posts below, that look very town, but actually do nothing to hunt scum, and seem like the right thing to follow if your new.

Additioanlly, multiple times in the game, Toad specifically states, or implies, that he is town or obviously town due to this this and this. This nonsense would trick your average noob, but everyone knows you should not have to state I am town, it should just be implied through pro town behaviour.

+ Show Spoiler +

On September 07 2012 06:59 Toadesstern wrote:
Toads very important thoughts mostly about VETs and whatever else
I consider important so far

I'm doing this post because I'm probably going to die tonight. I consider myself a vet and most people probably consider me a vet as well but unlike BC I usually don't draw protection from medics for two reasons I don't need to go into detail right now, although the reasoning becomes apparant after reading the whole thing :p

First important topic: VETs in this game

Forumite
BlackMamba24 (referred to as DrH from now on to not confuse him with BM)
BloodyC0bbler
Bill Murray
Toadesstern/myself :p

That's my take on who's a vet in this game.

A lot of people think it's hard to analyse vets to a point that they almost got a mental blockade when it comes to vets, that's why I'm going to post some about those 4/5 although I don't have anything major yet, though I've got a conclusion I'm quite comfortable with.

First things first, I did this post (+ Show Spoiler [click me!] +

On September 06 2012 07:40 Toadesstern wrote:
Bam. Watcher on people like BC and me please.

Mafia will want to hit that.

) on purpose trying to get some reactions, mainly from vets. Simply put I was trying to rub a subtile "sup guys I'm comfirmed town now" into peoples faces to see what they're going to say. Why did I do that?
I am an incredible controversial guy and a shitton of people are scared like crazy about me because I'm apparently unreadable according to them.
I'm a little like BC-junior, or maybe WBG-junior in that regard because people tell me I'm looking pro-town no matter of alignment every single game. So usually I'm getting the same old crap about me every game "Toad is looking townish, but that's a null-tell because Toad always looks that way". Take AC for example, Radfield actually told his scumbuddies to just attack me for looking good because I'm always looking good. WBG called the play VE and I did in LI "the best bus TL has ever seen", he said I'm unreadable in PTP, I totally destroyed town in magic and surely everyone remembers the "Annul game" (sup palmer :p). Except for PyourPoison I destroyed pretty much every town I played against as mafia and every single game I was called a townie by the vast majority of the game while telling people what to do.
That's the reason I'm getting these bullshit arguments like "Toad is unreadable" / "Toad is looking town but that means nothing" all the time. No matter if I'm town or mafia and frankly I was expecting to hear something like that from a mafia-player because it's an incredible easy approach to attack someone because you can just say that EVERY single game. Sadly it never happened.
However I still ended up getting some reactions although they're minor ones.

tl;dr / Summary so far:

I am town
BC is pretty much town
I highly lean on BM being town giving his style. He attacked me during this night for something he thought to be something. It obviously was nothing but his argument was not the typical "toad is unreadable, BE AFRAID GUYS" fear mongering I get all the time and I doubt a mafia would get in there attacking me the way he did.

That leaves us with Foru and DrH. DrH still feels odd although I can't put my finger on it. Foru feels way to cautios when he's posting.
I'm almost certain one of those 2 got to be mafia and considering that my guts are telling me that foru feels cautios I'd rather bet on him being mafia by some degree.

The thing about this is that it's not a clear case. What I've got about those 3 (BM / foru / drH) so far is very minor and not worth making a case about so I'm not going to. However process of elimination is a nice approach for those kind of people and that being said I really doubt BM or BC are mafia.

People who are not vets but should be a topic
Ottox: No need to talk about him I guess
DoYouHas: He's looking bad when posting but I actually like his answers
strongandbig: That guy should be scared as shit about me but he isn't. Not at all. To be precise he's even pretty buddy-ish with me. I think he knows I'm not mafia. Do not like.
BroodKingEXE: Weirdest vote from d1. Other than that he's fine but the vote really looks like "let's scatter at least SOMEWHAT, just pretend you forgot to unvote BKE"

If Ottox somehow manages to survive the night you've got to lynch him no matter what. It's actually quite possible that we've got vigs thinking "well we probably got a bunch of vigs who want to shoot him so I don't need to as well. No need to quadrupel-stack him". I've been in that situation as well and ended up shooting my #2 reads instead of my #1 reads (AC comes to mind

) because I thought someone else would take care of the #1 read anyways because the guy was pretty much confirmed mafia.
Ottox definitly is the best lynch if he survives. BKE & S+B are mentioned because I want people to check their filter as well. I'm not set on lynching them yet but they're the best candidates I've got besides the "usual" ones. I'd rather not have people just forget about them.

That being said I think it's quite likely I'm going to be dead in a couple of minutes so I'm posting this to give a couple of thoughts in case I'm not around any more. They're obviously all pretty vague because it's d1/n1 after all and thereforet it's just a summary. That means you've got to check filters yourself to understand what I'm talking about and wether or not you agree with me. Regretted not doing that in WoF when I was shot n1 as well ...

Right now we're having quite a luxury problem though: We're having to many people doing cases about everyone and their dog.
That's totally fine in itself but you guys need to make sure you got some focus tomorrow. Talking about a lot of people is fine but if everyone's like a little gonzaw we'll have 25 people screaming "NO MY CASE IS THE BEST" and mafia has an easy time to pick a fitting case out of the 15915815 existing ones and will push that one.
So don't spam the thread too much. This post I just did is already a wall-of-text although I'm only scratching the surface of things when talking about stuff. So keep that in mind tomorrow.

On September 06 2012 07:40 Toadesstern wrote:
Bam. Watcher on people like BC and me please.

Mafia will want to hit that.

To noobs this seems fine, Toad is posting a lot and is likely to die we should use our blue powers on him. To anyone else it looks pretty scummy, directing blues, as well as trying to get them on yourself. Note how he says watcher, as scum there is NO way this can make him look bad, it can only make others look bad, after they claim the watch and Toad says something along the lines of SHEIT he was on me, must be scum. Also, scum is safe to ask for trackers on them as well, cause Toad knew he wouldn't be delivering KP that night, therefore wasting the track for the night.

People realize this, so he goes on to defend this post, with his Secret Plan to out scum vets. This is just him covering his own ass, drawing attention to yourself by looking scummy, isn't going to help you find scum. This whole post did nothing to find scum, it was basically a HUGE post saying I am town.

"If Ottox somehow manages to survive the night you've got to lynch him no matter what. It's actually quite possible that we've got vigs thinking "well we probably got a bunch of vigs who want to shoot him so I don't need to as well. No need to quadrupel-stack him". I've been in that situation as well and ended up shooting my #2 reads instead of my #1 reads (AC comes to mind ) because I thought someone else would take care of the #1 read anyways because the guy was pretty much confirmed mafia.
Ottox definitly is the best lynch if he survives."

I talked about this earlier, and austinmc pointed it out but it was basically pressuring blues onto ottoxlol for the suicide bomber mass town kill.

+ Show Spoiler +

On September 06 2012 09:42 Toadesstern wrote:
btw random observation that might be worth sharing as I'm not sure what to make of it yet but it's interessting:

Show nested quote +

Important part of the quote in red. Nothing else changed. That's it for today for me

Putting the thoughts into peoples minds about the next days mislynch early.

+ Show Spoiler +

On September 10 2012 02:36 Toadesstern wrote:
I've got a little task for people, read this game: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=330925
Also make sure to read the obs-QT and especially Syllos opinion on forumite (click me!)
I know I don't usually ask people to read older games because it's a pain in the ass but this one is important.

When you're done reading I want you to think about forumite. There's 4 major things that come to my mind when thinking about forumite:

He is cautious when posting
He is only posting when he has to
He is isn't interested in what's going on or helping town at all
He's doing apeshit right now

It's the very same thing we had in WoF. Town-Forumite is useful, good and will do STUFF.
Can you think of one important post forumite has done this game? Just one that instantly pops into your mind?
I can't without having his filter opened because there's really not much that sticks out. His most important post probably was this: + Show Spoiler [click me] +

On September 09 2012 06:32 Forumite wrote:
Kreb (Miltonkram) (0)
~~Hapahauli~~

BroodKingEXE (16)
Hapahauli
slOosh
imallinson
~~Shady Sands~~
Hopeless1der
ShiaoPi
Rewok
DoYouHas
Maverick32x
~~grush57~~
Forumite
Gravan
~~Toadesstern~~
~~grush57~~
strongandbig
grush57
Toadesstern
Shady Sands
Z-BosoN
Kreb (Miltonkram)

DoYouHas (1)
Bill Murray

ShiaoPi (0)
~~Maverick32x~~

Maverick32x (0)
~~BroodKingEXE~~

Shady Sands (0)
~~grush57~~

grush57 (1)
DarthPunk
~~Toadesstern~~
~~Shady Sands~~

Z-BosoN (2)
~~grush57~~
austinmcc
BroodKingEXE

Not yet voted! (1)
Lvdr (mkfuba07)

LOL

About his cautiousness:
I already quoted this but just as an example for this, you'll find multiple posts like the following in his filter:

Show nested quote +

You'll find stuff like that all over his filter. He's always making sure to have a possible retreat when posting and not committing in the slightest.

He only really posts when he has to:

Show nested quote +

On September 07 2012 08:17 Forumite wrote:

On September 07 2012 07:56 Toadesstern wrote:

On September 07 2012 07:48 Forumite wrote:
=(

Toades, what do you want most, an answer to the case on me posted during the night, or my top scumreads. It´s late and I´m too tired to do both right now.

I don't consider the case on you to be good and I don't agree with it.
I want to lynch you because of method or elimination.

So I'd rather see you talk about targets for today.

I have two scumreads right now. I had Ottox down as scum, I was wrong but it shouldn´t affect the other reads. They are both based on the time around Matts claim. The first one is Maverick for his first post in the game, it was a reaction to Matts claim and the situation around it, and he was basically trying to divert attention to everyone else, without committing to anything. The second one is Hapa for his posts during the same time. The post below sums it up well.

On September 04 2012 09:32 Hapahauli wrote:

On September 04 2012 09:26 Mattchew wrote:

On September 04 2012 09:22 Hapahauli wrote:
Yeah I know what the role does, so what about it? I'll ask a question if I don't understand something.

there is no information given to the role, it is a VT that (randomly) visits people. If a tracker or watcher see me on their check it could lead to a stupid mislynch

Ah thanks for clearing it up. I'm just a bit wary of D1 claims in general after having seen SnB's "self-aware miller" claim in DeathNote Mini Mafia, justified or not.

On September 04 2012 09:22 Toadesstern wrote:

On September 04 2012 09:17 Mattchew wrote:

On September 04 2012 09:16 Hapahauli wrote:

On September 04 2012 09:12 Mattchew wrote:
I am a nosy neighbor. Anyone else with this role should insta-claim as well.

Hold up. Why would we want people with information roles to claim?

##vote hapahauli

need an honest answer. What do you consider worse:

a) People not thinking while posting / reading
b) People defending other people 1 hour into the game when they have no reason to do such a thing and should be happy to see as much posts from the person in question defending himself rather than stopping the discussion defending him.

Howabout c) People who pick fights with people who are trying to start conversation (slOosh) for the sake of picking fights?

When I read this post at first, I see Hapa buddying up with Matt and throwing suspicion on those attacking him. It didn´t feel right, Matt claiming didn´t arouse any suspicion in him. He said hi to Matt and then chided those attacking him.

That´s the ones that jumped out at me when reading the thread. Yes, I should reread all the spam from yesterday, I´ll see about that tomorrow.

tl;dr:
Hapahauli
Maverick32x

That's something we rarely see when looking through foru's filter: He's talking about his read after being pressured by me and giving some minor insight on what he thinks is happening. However, why is that only happening after I call him out as mafia? I tell people he's mafia, he instantly gets in the thread and posts something like that when all the time people weren't talking about him he did nothing like that. That my dear friends is scummy as shit

As mentioned I don't think he's interested in what's happening. I can't remember a significant post foru did because there was none. He isn't even trying to help. No "shut up guys, here's what's going on: XXXX, Therefore we lynch Y". No pushing his reads to make sure the best possible lynch ends up happening. He's just completly standing by, posting some minor things if he has to but nothing else.
Town-Foru would be interested in what's going on.
Town-Foru would be pushing his reads.
Town-Foru would be actively trying to help town and not just stand by.

It's just the same thing as WoF. He was mafia in that game and did apeshit. For some reason he never ended up being lynched although Sandroba and I called him mafia straight from d1 and sadly nothing happened.
Let me assure you, Foru would be doing SOMETHING to help if he was town. He isn't.

Forumite is mafia

Also vote me for mayor

Here is the forumite case, not only is it a brutal case based almost solely on meta. Its basically a case that says, trust me noobs I played with him enough to KNOW this is not town Forumite. Everyone sheeps onto forumite, and toad never posts or even cares how the lynch is coming along and how he killed day 3 discussion completely. It shoulda been obviously to a "vet" like himself that this lynch was going to flip green. Also, this mislynch was set up far in advance by Toad saying that there has to be a vet on the scum team and lets lynch down the line. Now its just him and BM on that list left, while the rest were town. Want to keep lynching down that list toad?

+ Show Spoiler +

On September 12 2012 00:47 Toadesstern wrote:

Show nested quote +

The thing about Forumite is that he is as scummy or as not-so-scummy as everyone else, as you just mentioned but unlike everyone else he's not just like everyone else, he's Forumite.

You usually don't find mafia-vets by scummyness or something they posted because they don't screw up that badly. Yeah sometimes something weird happens and this game & Matt are the perfect example that these kind of things happen every 10 games or so but in general nothing like that will happen. So what you want to look out for is stuff that is NOT happening. There is no other way to figure out vets.

That method isn't working with other people because for it to work you need to know that the guy in question knows what he's doing which is almost never the case unless you're a vet or have been around long enough to be considered decent.

In this post, Toad tries to discredit DarthPunks good points, by saying you NEED meta to find vet scum. This is just plain untrue, vets make mistakes occasionally in terms of scum slips, and eventually you ALWAYS can find scum agenda after a couple of days of filter in someones filter if your playing good. He basically is saying trust me everyone I;m right. He says there is no other way to figure out vets. Toad has been brainwashing noobs into sheep all game.

On September 14 2012 01:49 Toadesstern wrote:

Show nested quote +

nah sloOsh is not a vet.
And I'm including myself. I'm town :3

You're saying

Show nested quote +

but I don't see the problem. Unless of course you just wanted to point out that you don't like that in general and want me to change that attitude in future games no matter of alignment.

More IM TOWN, spamming.

On September 15 2012 10:06 Toadesstern wrote:
Are you mispresenting things on purpose?

Forumite called me a townie but said that he's paranoid about town leaders so he said it could be possible I'm mafia. When lynching/pushing him I did not know about that change of mind ( I wouldn't even consider that a read because he just said he's paranoid while still thinking I'm town). So in reality if I'm mafia I pushed the guy who called me town all game long. That doesn't make sense and is the opposite of what you're trying to tell people.
Z-Boson is the guy who called me a 97% Townie (or Assassin). Why should I shoot someone who tells people I'm 97% certain NOT MAFIA. Not only are you AGAIN telling the exact opposite of what happened but you're not even reading the game and I guess that's the reason why you're lying. Z-boson EXPLAINED he LIED and never considered me to be mafia. He LIED to see what would happen. He LIED to see if I how I'd answer. He LIED about me being mafia in the first place to see how I'd react and explained all that finishing in
On September 13 2012 07:00 Z-BosoN wrote:
Important Conclusions

If I die, then Toad is not Mafia, unless mafia took my bluff or thought I could get Toad lynched anyways, which I don't find likely. So, go with him being 97% town/assassin.

So again, why are you lying saying the guy thought I'm mafia? Why are you misrepresenting the situation? Why are you not reading the thread. Btw the same happened today between BM and you and you're STILL to thick to understand what BM has posted and STILL haven't understood a word. Why should I shoot / lynch a guy as mafia who tells people I'm 97% confirmed town when I "successfully" figured out he's fakeclaiming and therefore only reactiontesting?
Hapa is the only guy out of these 3 who actually attacked me AT ALL. The only one. Sorry I've got someone who attacked me and said it might be possible (he never actually made a case against me, just paranoia if I remember correctly?) that I'm mafia. Pretty sure if I search for people who attacked YOU and ended up being dead I'm going to find more than one guy in the entire game.

More fluff about TOAD BEING SO TOWN EVERYONE SAID IT AND NOW THEY ARE DED OMFG.

On September 14 2012 05:33 Toadesstern wrote:
On September 14 2012 05:10 Mementoss wrote:
On September 14 2012 04:58 Toadesstern wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 14 2012 04:25 Mementoss wrote:
I have two questions about the night:

Why is sloosh and toad still alive day 4?

Why was MKFuba killed?

Are you reading the game?
Or did you just forget that we had someone claim having a bomb on me?

They shot Z-Boson, the guy who claimed Mad hatter who placed a bomb on me to get a free kill (hinthint: I was supposed to be the free kill).
Why should they shoot the guy who is supposed to be a free kill on top of having the bomb do the job? Unless of course they didn't believe the claim, which can't be because if that's the case they could have just shot me without having to shoot Z-Boson.
Furthermore the kills seemed to be rashly rearranged to fit the changed situation with Z-Boson claiming. I really don't get what you're asking here.

Also this is nothing special. I'm awesome at playing mafia yet I'm only an average town-player. Mafia left me alive in *whatever the name was* although I was a modconfirmed town mason in that game. But again, a lot of people are paranoid about me, even if I end up being innocent-child-like confirmed. Not saying it's that strong this game but you've got to be really paranoid to consider me a mafia after what happened yesterday.
I usually get shot either n1 or survive until lylo. Pretty much nothing inbetween exists in the history of Toad-games so far.

You should put your paranoia somewhere else. Maybe something good will come out of it if you target someone else.

Yeah but if you were mafia you would have shot Zboson to make yourself look more townie.

You said this DIRECTLY after the mad hatter claim:

On September 13 2012 05:30 Toadesstern wrote:
I guess that's a fakeclaim to get you killed and test wether or not mafia wants me dead or not?
Because from what you post it sounds like you found something that you consider to be a scumslip.
If that's the case why don't you just post it? That shouldn't take too long.

However, I'm not mafia and therefore you won't find something like that but you're probably getting yourself killed. Have fun being dead and all, unless of course you are mafia YOURSELF, won't shoot yourself tonight (obviously I'd say) and want to play the "see that confirms Toad as mafia. If he was town mafia would have shot me to get 2 kills out of 1KP!" game tomorrow.

So I propose this:
Trackers go and track Z-Boson. If he's a Mad Hatter as he says he is and he genuinely believes me to be mafia he already has the bomb placed on me (as he just claimed) and therefore doesn't need to visit someone as he doesn't need to change the bomb and can just leave it on me. If that guy visits someone we've got ourselves a mafia :p

So you being alive after Mad Hatter claim and boson is dead means nothing to me and should mean nothing to anyone.
1) If your town, mafia shoots ZBoson and hopes to kill you as well
2) If your mafia, you already were confident it was a fakeclaim and killed Zboson to somewhat confirm yourself.

The fact that you act as it somewhat confirms you as town anymore than anything else is concerning.

acting confident in the thread as mafia and shooting the guy in the balls who claims to have a bomb on you are two very different things.
Again, yes I'm a bold mafia player in general but that? Risking everything when I'm totally fine (assuming I'm mafia) with just shooting someone else who did not claim to have a bomb on me?
You now know that Z-Boson is town because he flipped town but you think anyone would have considered lynching me after his post?
Even if both Boson and I survived I wouldn't even look bad because of that so there's not a single reason for me to take that gamble that could possibly lose my team (still assuming I'm mafia) the game just on the whim that I'm thinking the guy is fakeclaiming.

There's just no reason to shoot Boson from a mafia perspective if I am mafia. Not a single one that isn't overshadowed by massive drawbacks even if I considered it to be a fakeclaim while there is a shitton of reasoning for shooting Boson if I'm town.

Just stop it, go scumhunt somewhere else. You won't find something at my place.

I think this conversation is a good indicator of Toad again trying to convince town that he is confirmed town, and no one should think otherwise or even discuss it. Toad is feeling the pressure at the end of this discussion and says the following:
[b]Just stop it, go scumhunt somewhere else. You won't find something at my place.
He is misrepresenting the situation which actually was:

1) Toad was very confident it was a fake claim
2) Zboson gets killed by mafia
3) Toad knew it was a fake claim and killed Zboson as a means of confirming himself.

Also the Zboson situation AGAIN ends up in Toad not trusting anyones decision making but his own, he asks for watchers and trackers on Zboson at first, and then asks for a vigilante on him. He knows mafia is delivering the KP on Zboson but he just wants to waste a possible vig shot on him and confirm himself all at once.

Part 2: Alot of Posts, No Scum-hunting, Inconsistencies:

Lets sum up day 1 for toad. He had almost 4 filter pages, do you want to know how this was spent? Shitting up the thread arguing the same obvious points with Ottoxlol all day. He really had no concern of finding scum that day, he just wanted to stir up a shit pot so scum could catch up and scum would be harder to be found in the day 1 connections with Matcchew.

Day 2 explains that grush is definitly scum in the case below. But he never even tries to push this case or convince anyone of it, he lets it slide. Town toad would be yelling at everyone to look at his case and take note and vote grush. Scum toad just did it on the basis of making a case. He never mentions grush being mafia again after this day.

On September 08 2012 09:18 Toadesstern wrote:
Just to explain what I'm talking about when talking about grush:

From PTP3:
On August 22 2012 10:57 grush57 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 22 2012 10:56 JingleHell wrote:
Sorry my activity has been shit. My guts have been acting up, which has had me not interested in thinking much. Occupational hazard of crohn's.

Anyways, I'm not comfortable with the people looking at VE because he's playing differently. He took a LOT of crap in Mad Men for his play, some based on meta. If a lot of people want him to play differently, and he's tired of being looked at the way he is, he might just try to play differently.

I still like the idea of lynching Grush in absence of real reads, but maybe that's just a combination of me being vindictive and him being Grush. If we have a better target, obviously that would nullify it anyways.

YOU DONT ANSWER FOR VE ACTIONS, VE DOES.

vs this game:

On September 04 2012 08:22 grush57 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2012 08:20 BlackMamba24 wrote:
On September 04 2012 08:09 DoYouHas wrote:
Well, as per usual I like lynching lurkers day 1 if a scummier option doesn't present itself.

Blues should do as they see fit. Discussion in that area only gives scum more points of reference for blue hunting.

In the past L has assured me that this is always the correct course of action, sooo

##Vote: Bill Murray

Why Bill Murray as opposed to any other lurker? Because he posted 20 minutes before the game started? I checked the thread 5 minutes before it started then went downstairs to do something else. I just don't see the point of voting this early when a scummier option is pretty much sure to present itself.

Meek and apologetic tone, parroting posts other people have already made, etc.

##Vote DoYouHas

That'll do for now.

He's probably just pressuring him.
Plus BM has a reputation.

Bunch of serious, yet easy to do posts:
[spoiler=click me]
On September 04 2012 08:26 grush57 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2012 08:24 Shady Sands wrote:
On September 04 2012 08:20 slOosh wrote:
On September 04 2012 08:02 Hapahauli wrote:
On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote:
Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?

Errr... well I wasn't planning on anyone taking that image seriously.

I hate town circles. They're distracting to discussion and give people easy outs to "look" townie by "contributing" as opposed to scumhunting. I hate blue-oriented discussion in general really - it makes it easier for mafia to snipe blue roles by testing player reactions. Hell the idea of publicly determining blue actions is silly, considering it gives mafia the one information advantage that town has over mafia.

Could you clarify what you mean by this point?

Basically when someone goes and says "I got roleblocked" or "I was hit as a vet last night" scum now know something that previously only a townie knew.
I don't think this is true all the time, as sometimes it's critical to get this info out to the rest of town, but I can see where Hapa is coming from

NONONOONONO
As town ALWAYS tell town if you got hit/roleblocked unless some weird setup or something.
On September 04 2012 09:27 grush57 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 04 2012 08:30 Shady Sands wrote:
On September 04 2012 08:26 grush57 wrote:
On September 04 2012 08:24 Shady Sands wrote:
On September 04 2012 08:20 slOosh wrote:
On September 04 2012 08:02 Hapahauli wrote:
On September 04 2012 07:56 slOosh wrote:
Hapa, what is your idea of a town circle and how does it help us find / lynch / kill scum?

Errr... well I wasn't planning on anyone taking that image seriously.

I hate town circles. They're distracting to discussion and give people easy outs to "look" townie by "contributing" as opposed to scumhunting. I hate blue-oriented discussion in general really - it makes it easier for mafia to snipe blue roles by testing player reactions. Hell the idea of publicly determining blue actions is silly, considering it gives mafia the one information advantage that town has over mafia.

Could you clarify what you mean by this point?

Basically when someone goes and says "I got roleblocked" or "I was hit as a vet last night" scum now know something that previously only a townie knew.
I don't think this is true all the time, as sometimes it's critical to get this info out to the rest of town, but I can see where Hapa is coming from

NONONOONONO
As town ALWAYS tell town if you got hit/roleblocked unless some weird setup or something.

Why?

Town needs all the information possible.
Mafia will already know this information.If it was a blue vigi shot then the blue willl already know and they won't have to tell town without outing themselves. Mafia will know if there were vigi shots because they killed the other people.

As if town-grush would ever say something like that. He's trying to look good saying something like that. Town-grush wouldn't even care about something like this.
On September 05 2012 05:12 grush57 wrote:
Well, looks like Mattchew slipped and all the noobs on his team are now scrambling.
So....
##Vote: Mattchew

Miltonkram after this lynch?(Assuming that Mattchew flips scum which he will)

Already setting up the next lynch without giving an explanation at all?
On September 05 2012 05:16 grush57 wrote:
And all of you new players as town you gotta make stances, lists of reads do jack shit. A lot of you are sounding scummy and probably just because you're new, but actually town.

nothing, easy to do. Neither does he do that himself nor would town grush care for something like that
On September 07 2012 09:31 grush57 wrote:
So we're in good shape right now. I'll look through some people's filter tomorrow.

as if lol
[/spoiler]

Buddy-Buddy posts:
[spoiler=clicky me]

On September 06 2012 07:51 grush57 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 06 2012 07:47 Z-BosoN wrote:
On September 06 2012 07:40 Toadesstern wrote:
Bam. Watcher on people like BC and me please.

Mafia will want to hit that.

Why on earth do you think mafia would want to hit you?

Towny vets.
On September 06 2012 09:55 grush57 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 06 2012 09:54 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
On September 06 2012 08:39 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
On September 06 2012 07:17 Ottoxlol wrote:
On September 06 2012 07:03 Bill Murray wrote:
Ottox you care to make a top 3 scumread like I have? sorry to say you need vigged, but it'd be better if you would stop posting, or actually.. you know... do some work by reading filters and making logical cases ...wow this looks like coaching. I see... I see... maybe I should ease up on my suspicion of Forumite.

Scum could easily just be playing the lurker game this game, but if that's the case, let 'em sit back while players like BC and Toad get confirmed.

Toad is scum.
Hapahauli confirmed my suspicions by his last post, he's purposely trying to skew the discussion.
I think these two are defending their mates by not letting the Matt discussion go on -> the other 2 possibly are lurkers who voted on Matt with no real content. imallinson Z-BosoN Shady Sands DarthPunk ShiaoPi BlackMamba24 goodkarma all voted Matt after Palmar's announcment and provide little to no reasoning. Bad town or scum can easily be among them

See I am not sure if anyone else caught this as I am still reading / catching up but no where in the OP does it tell me that I can see how many red's there are. As in town doesn't know how big the mafia team is.

By telling us that happa + toad are defending matt and the other two are lurkers means you KNOW THERE ARE 5.

So, I say we off you next.

If Palmar said the exact scum team numbers somewhere I have missed I apologize for my outburst and will find other people to hang.

For those who missed it the first time.

He clearly states happa + toad are trying to defend their "mates" or in this case "mate" by trying to drop the matt discussion. This is 3 reds. He then states the other 2 mafia are lurkers who voted with no real content then generically lists a bunch of lurkers and DrH who has been one of the most active players in the game.

But he told us 5. 2 defending 1 and then 2 in a group of lurkers. It wasn't I think there are two more or anything. he clearly outlines 2 defending their scumbuddy by shutting down conversation (lul as that wasnt the reason they argued with him) and 2 in lurkers.

Guy outright mislabeled one of the most active players calling him a "lurker" and outed the mafia team # as 5.

Burn him with fire.

Damn BC you're on a roll, though that slip isn't 100% confirmed mafia but adding that with the other bs he said definitely scum.
On September 07 2012 07:37 grush57 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 07 2012 07:34 Hapahauli wrote:
Shame a shot got wasted on Ottox. Oh well.

##Vote Miltonkram

@ Grush
On September 07 2012 07:31 grush57 wrote:
Hmm, goodkarma suiciding on BC the vet I guess.
Plus we got rid of Ottox so gj viggies

Shouldn't you... uh... NOT be happy vigi shot a green role?

Yea but it's better than just about any other townie. Better than say the vigi going crazy and shooting Toad or something.
[/spoiler]

Last but not least those 2 posts that don't really fit a special topic:

On September 08 2012 07:12 grush57 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 08 2012 06:52 Toadesstern wrote:
grush is mafia. BKE's probably; if BKE's not mafia it's probably foru?

But I had almost no time today as friends came over so I'll have to reread things tomorrow. Haven't even read what happened the last 4 hours so far except for an incredible fast read.

Kill me it will help the town I promise :D

If someone tells me to lynch him the best thing to do usually is to lynch him. It's either trying to be manipulative and trying to appeal for emotions (in which case he's mafia) or he's given the game up (in which case he can be both) or he doesn't care about the game and is going to be anti-town no matter of alignment. I highly lean on the first one though.

On September 07 2012 08:48 grush57 wrote:
This is hard Town is REALLY active and good this game.

Yeah I asked him about that and he answered but I can't stop but get the feeling that was supposed to be a post for a mafia QT lol.

tl;dr So yeah I feel quite strongly about grush. He's hard to judge because he really doesn't seem to care about games and play anti-town no matter of alignment but that guy got to die.

Toad town also VOTES who he feels strongly again. Toad doesn't drop the vote here even though he is sure grush is scum. After this full case, BKE comes in with the claim, Toad sees the oppotunity to jump on the easy bus and kill a blue in one shot so he goes for it. He doesn't build a case on BKE he uses the claim alone as the sole reason for voting. After a good amount of votes are on BKE, and the lynch seems secure, Toad goes back to grush. Toad doesn't even try to convince people to get off the BKE wagon. And again he never tries to push or vote grush again as a candidate in day 3 or day 4.

On September 11 2012 01:21 Toadesstern wrote:
Let's be honest here:

I think if we lynch into one of either Forumite, S&B, BM or Z-Boson we're going to hit "not-townie" all the way.
That's the reason I didn't want to talk about S&B because I suspected him to be an Assassin (you're welcome \o/ ).
If BM is Mafia Foru's got to be an Assassin (again, you're welcome \o/ ) and isn't actually mafia himself.
Foru basicly claimed he's playing cautious on purpose so that fits the Assassin as well.
Z-Boson and BM have some weird connection this day.
I really don't like how Boson gets in here telling people BM is confirmed because of the blue thing, on top of that he instantly finds another breadcrumb BM apparently did and the knowledge BM had about austin is supposed to make him somehow town when there's no way mafia would have shot a vig n1, even if they knew about one.

So if you take them all apart I'd be all up for lynching Forumite today.
If we're considering them as a whole I'd rather lynch Z-Boson.

Grush not here? Hmmm Toad always switching around who he wants lynched and who is scummy very inconsistent. Additioanlly, toad said this himself as scum he likes to put scum into these lists that have no basis.

On September 14 2012 07:10 Toadesstern wrote:
On September 14 2012 07:03 Mementoss wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 05 2012 09:27 goodkarma wrote:
I would agree with Hapa that Mattchew is almost a 100% scum read. He's done a good job of highlighting why.

But there is more than one scum. We need to move past Mattchew onto pressuring other people. A scum lynch day one puts us in an excellent position going forward. Looking at others' filters I couldn't help but notice that there still are a considerable number of people that need to participate more to help ensure a strong pro-town environment going into day 2.

Grush is at modkill-threshold. I don't expect he's going to be around all that much longer. Until he makes his first post, I consider any time spent pressuring him as a waste.

On the other hand, Gravan, MKfuba, austinmc, maverick, ShadySands, and ShioPi all stand out to me as semi-lurkers. Some of them seem to have legitimate reasons (such as ShadySands), but that doesn't mean they aren't scum with legitimate reasons.

Don't mafia usually try to at least list one fellow team mate in these things lol.

Yeah. I'm usually telling people to make it somewhat of an 1/3 mafia + 2/3 town mix when coaching or talking with people in QTs when I'm mafia myself.
Obviously depends on the situation but I'd highly doubt there's no mafia in that list.

Onto day 4, this is how Toad starts the day, after Day 3 discussion ebing SHIT and town in a really bad spot.

[B]On September 13 2012 22:46 Toadesstern wrote:
voting for Mementoss to get lynched seems like a good plan for today. Thoughts?

Also, he doesn't even try the whole day despite being there for quiet a while. He just is waiting for the cases to be brought up to agree with. Goes from me, to Mav gravan shady sands, to just grav and shady sands. He is basically asking people at this point who is the best lynch. Compare this to his day1-day3 play. Hes happy to sit back and let the mislynch happen. Also, why didn't he push his grush case again, nothing changed with grush. If you read through Toads filter you will realize most of it is nonsense. Setup talk, or just huge fluffy posts, or directly blues. Very little though about finding scum, or pressuring players into slipping ever occurs. Very lazy play from him, while trying to appear town.

All the rest of the stuff about the fake claim right when he feels the pressure and the defending on SnB is just icing on the scum cake.

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