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Hi all. Just woke up. Mattchew still hasn't even bothered to defend himself and it seems as if he is playing scum, resigned to his fate, and not letting any info out. So at this point if you aren't voting for him you better have a good reason.
Explanations like this:
On September 05 2012 03:55 Ottoxlol wrote:@austinmcc I mean mistake like bad play, whatever is his alignment he shouldn't have claimed. Tell me why is it more likely that he did it as scum then blue/assa? So everyone thinks that he did not communicate with his scumbuddies. THATS speculation. I think he is not scum. Why? We have zero information other than he did a fake-claim and everyone jumped on the wagon. No one answered why did they, other than Toads very weak- close to nothing meta reasoning. + Show Spoiler +On September 05 2012 03:18 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 03:04 Ottoxlol wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 05 2012 02:45 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 02:40 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 02:19 Hapahauli wrote:
Don't get why this is suspicious. Did you read anything between those two posts? DarthPunk and BC addressed my question pretty well. Combined with sloOsh's post, I felt that BC's confidence in his read was enough to vote for mattchew (with BC essentially 1-for-1'ing himself and mattchew). So you voted Matt because of BC's confidence. ?! + Show Spoiler +On September 05 2012 02:31 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 02:15 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 02:09 Toadesstern wrote:On September 05 2012 02:01 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 01:50 Toadesstern wrote:
People who know how to play post things, including fakeclaims as mafia all the time without checking with their buddies and they slip from time to time.
If this was some random noob, fine but it's not, it's Mattchew. He most of the time knows what he's doing and certaintly doesn't need to check back with his buddies all the time.
Additionally in the most recent games I played as mafia I figured that a lot of mafia teams really only rely on the QT and really seldomly use other means of communication like IRC or skype which slows down communication A LOT. So in the most recent games I played as mafia pretty much everyone just did their own thing and you would only end up discussing things like who to kill at night or wether or not it's fine if you bus each other.
Again, if this was some random dude with 100 posts in his 3rd or 5th game of mafia fine, I'd agree he'd ask his buddies before doing something like this but Mattchew is not a random noob.
I could maaaaaaybe see him fakeclaim as tracker on purpose IF he knew millers are not self-aware to lure out additional fakeclaims but I don't really see that giving his answers. And if that really was the case it'd be the most stupid kind of play I've ever seen.
That's literally the most retarded thing you could come up with but it's at least something I could come up with while the scenarios for a mafia who just slipped make a whole lot of sense My problem with this reasoning is why blue/assa bad play is more probable then scum bad play? Even if you think Matt is not likely to discuss it with his team, he can so why is it more likely? If he's scum he misread the rules then fakeclaimed without discussing it with his mates or they fucked up too. If he's a tracker/assa, he misread the rules then fakeclaimed. in hope of some probable targets (thinking the other assassin would likely claim or maybe even scum) Why is the first scenario is more likely by 19 people? :D I just don't see it. Tell me what I miss Because there's no reason to fakeclaim as tracker. As a mafia you blend in as a townie. He not just fakeclaimed, he also asked everyone to do so :D I wrote down my thoughts about the scenario where he is a tracker, or an assassin, why do you ignoring it? Does it go against your easy D1 lynch plan? sloOsh and your "I'm confident so I'm town lets keep arguing about nothing so everyone can see us active" then your selective answers put you right into my fos along with Hapahauli's strange voteswitch. Yeah, he blend in perfectly with everyone voting him 1) because, as already mentioned, that kind of play is the most stupid thing you could do as townie. It's like fakeclaiming a red check on someone because you think the guy is mafia. You just don't do that. Never. Ever. 2) Yeah and clearly I'm the guy trying to stop discussion. My filter just screams "don't talk about anything and just vote guys!"... 3) I'm not answering selective. I'm answering in a way that people have to think about what I'm posting. If they don't I'll realize that and frankly you're one of the people who are reading whithout thinking for at least a second what's actually in the post and you've just proven it again. So stop whining about answers and try to show the will to understand what's going on. 4) I said the fakeclaim has a purpose as mafia while it has none as town. The purpose as mafia would be to blend in if he assumes millers are self-aware. I never said it was successful. Another example of you not even thinking about what was posted and just answering in a hury. I don't like that. 5) I answered this with those 4 (now 5) bullet points to make it a little easier to understand from your point. Sorry, but you are still ignoring my question. I will make it easy on you: Why is it more probable to make a mistake as scum when you CAN have discussion about your actions with the other ones, then it is to make a mistake alone? And I'm going to make it easy on you. I answered the question here: Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 02:09 Toadesstern wrote:On September 05 2012 02:01 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 05 2012 01:50 Toadesstern wrote:
People who know how to play post things, including fakeclaims as mafia all the time without checking with their buddies and they slip from time to time.
If this was some random noob, fine but it's not, it's Mattchew. He most of the time knows what he's doing and certaintly doesn't need to check back with his buddies all the time.
Additionally in the most recent games I played as mafia I figured that a lot of mafia teams really only rely on the QT and really seldomly use other means of communication like IRC or skype which slows down communication A LOT. So in the most recent games I played as mafia pretty much everyone just did their own thing and you would only end up discussing things like who to kill at night or wether or not it's fine if you bus each other.
Again, if this was some random dude with 100 posts in his 3rd or 5th game of mafia fine, I'd agree he'd ask his buddies before doing something like this but Mattchew is not a random noob.
I could maaaaaaybe see him fakeclaim as tracker on purpose IF he knew millers are not self-aware to lure out additional fakeclaims but I don't really see that giving his answers. And if that really was the case it'd be the most stupid kind of play I've ever seen.
That's literally the most retarded thing you could come up with but it's at least something I could come up with while the scenarios for a mafia who just slipped make a whole lot of sense My problem with this reasoning is why blue/assa bad play is more probable then scum bad play? Even if you think Matt is not likely to discuss it with his team, he can so why is it more likely? If he's scum he misread the rules then fakeclaimed without discussing it with his mates or they fucked up too. If he's a tracker/assa, he misread the rules then fakeclaimed. in hope of some probable targets (thinking the other assassin would likely claim or maybe even scum) Why is the first scenario is more likely by 19 people? :D I just don't see it. Tell me what I miss Because there's no reason to fakeclaim as tracker. As a mafia you blend in as a townie. and Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 01:50 Toadesstern wrote:
People who know how to play post things, including fakeclaims as mafia all the time without checking with their buddies and they slip from time to time.
If this was some random noob, fine but it's not, it's Mattchew. He most of the time knows what he's doing and certaintly doesn't need to check back with his buddies all the time.
Additionally in the most recent games I played as mafia I figured that a lot of mafia teams really only rely on the QT and really seldomly use other means of communication like IRC or skype which slows down communication A LOT. So in the most recent games I played as mafia pretty much everyone just did their own thing and you would only end up discussing things like who to kill at night or wether or not it's fine if you bus each other.
Again, if this was some random dude with 100 posts in his 3rd or 5th game of mafia fine, I'd agree he'd ask his buddies before doing something like this but Mattchew is not a random noob.
I could maaaaaaybe see him fakeclaim as tracker on purpose IF he knew millers are not self-aware to lure out additional fakeclaims but I don't really see that giving his answers. And if that really was the case it'd be the most stupid kind of play I've ever seen.
That's literally the most retarded thing you could come up with but it's at least something I could come up with while the scenarios for a mafia who just slipped make a whole lot of sense I really hope town will read this too. Since you are still ignoring my question, quiet deliberately and your early gameplay I think you are scum ##Vote: Toadesstern actually LOL this is a scumslip: Are you telling me you're not town? You got me :D Nice ignoring my question for the 5th time in a row. You claim to be not newbie right? So then why is your reasoning so weak? Are you making these up on the go? You broke under the smallest pressure lol
Are not good reasons. Generally the simplest explanations are the best. I see no town motive or agenda that would make sense in terms of lying and fakeclaiming to the entire thread. The explanations that you have provided, whilst possible are certainly not plausible and definitely not logical.
I sense some sort of desperation to avoid matt's lynch? Is this the case or do you actually believe that it is more likely he made some sort of Suicidal play as a blue role? I think we could agree that a VT would never claim nosy neighbour. What would the point be.
So Mattchew's case comes down to this. He is a blue that lied and wants to survive if tracked. Or he is Scum who wants to survive if tracked.
Survival instincts are a mafia trait as town can afford to die. To take such risks as a blue makes far less sense than to take them as a red.
I mean it is pretty obvious that matt is scum, and I fail to understand why you would defy all logic and reason in order to defend someone who is blatantly guilty.
In regards to the whole hapa/milton thing. I was not really pressuring matt with my post. I just failed to understand why you would instavote someone who questioned you. I did find it strange that hapa jumped all over me immediately when to me it was pretty clearly anti town.
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On September 05 2012 07:15 Hapahauli wrote:
Other than me not "seriously pursue[ing] a scum read" being absurd given the game length at the time (barely a few hours), you quoted the scumread I was pursuing in your own post. That's not just 1, but two lovely instances of you lying in the same post.
Wait so which was it? Were you pursuing a scum read or not? It seems as if you are contradicting yourself somewhat. I don't think it is a lie to say you were not seriously pursuing a scum read because, as you say, It was a couple of hours into the game and the information at hand was negligible. You state that seriously pursuing a scum read at that point would be absurd, and then state that he is lying when he says you were not seriously pursuing a scum read.
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On September 05 2012 09:17 Ottoxlol wrote:
I just don't get it. Why is it simpler to fuck up as scum? Tell me "kid".
I went into the whole hypotethical thing because I was discussing why would a nonscum Matt fake-claim. So why would a scum Matt fake-claim? if this was a selfaware miller game, a tracker could very well track him n1 then if he's scum it would be revealed.
This isn't a self aware miller game. So you went into the whole hypothetical thing in order to search for a reason to not lynch matt?
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On September 05 2012 09:38 Gravan wrote:First, the straightforward part. It seems to me that Matt is most likely an assassin, or a very careless player. As many have said before me, there is no case for him to do what he did from a town perspective. To me, it seems that if he were mafia or town, we would likely have seen at least some kind of attempt at an explanation - either to strengthen his fellow mafia by giving them 'towncred' as they jump on his bandwagon or to try to convince us we are making a mistake as a town blue. As an assassin, he could just be seeing his end and giving up - this is of course moot if he decides to put in his piece later. Since he is apparently not a random newbie (who is a random newb, anyway  ?), and clearly likes to be an active player, it shouts assasinto me. Since it is day 1 and we only have so much information, we essentially have to lynch him anyway (even if we were nearly certain he is an assassin. At this time, I'll be throwing my vote his way. The post where I make my comments on the information currently present (as in, not to do with the matt bandwagon) is coming up later. I just wanted to put down somehing somewhat solid so thanI can start to develop a post hostory, watery as it might be.
Simple explanation is the best. What the fuck is with people searching for reasons for matt to not be mafia. If he were town he would have defended himself by now. He is mafia. He got caught and now is just afking to deny info. It is really obvious.
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On September 05 2012 09:40 Ottoxlol wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 09:29 DarthPunk wrote:On September 05 2012 09:17 Ottoxlol wrote:
I just don't get it. Why is it simpler to fuck up as scum? Tell me "kid".
I went into the whole hypotethical thing because I was discussing why would a nonscum Matt fake-claim. So why would a scum Matt fake-claim? if this was a selfaware miller game, a tracker could very well track him n1 then if he's scum it would be revealed. This isn't a self aware miller game. So you went into the whole hypothetical thing in order to search for a reason to not lynch matt? But he thought it was. Since no one made a case other than he's lying therefore scum. I tried reasoning his claim and I got to the conclusion that he could very well be a blue or assa. He's even more likely to be one because it was a bad play whatever his alignment is, but as scum he could have discussed it with his team so there is less room for making a mistake this big. I was baffled by the fact that no town had came to this and asked why is that. 19 or something people already voted for him, I can only see it as a very easy wagon. People jump on with zero discussion, zero contribution.
The reason that people are Voting for matt is that it was very clear in the build up to Palmar's announcement that if matt was lying he was most probably scum. If he was a blue, why has he not even bothered to defend himself? Have you not read the dozen or so posts that have explained this to you.
Let me put it this way. Is it more likely your reasoning is wrong or that the entire towns reasoning is wrong?
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On September 05 2012 09:50 Rewok wrote:
EBWOP: We obv don't want to start roleclaiming, but it wouldn't be a bad idea to give our potential vigilante a target for today / tonight. Any ideas?
A few targets have been called out already in the last 5 or so pages.
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On September 05 2012 10:07 Rewok wrote:
@BC - I agree. We got a good D1 going on. That's a fair point, too. My bad. I didn't think this through all the way. I wasn't going to post at all - I guess I should stick with that instinct haha.
0_o
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Well I just blazed through the 10 odd pages that occurred whilst I was sleeping. Some thoughts.
Ottoxlol
This guys is fairly obtuse and I am struggling to see much through the shitstorm he has created throughout day one. He seems to be fairly transparent in his claimed motivations behind defending matt. He states multiple times that he feels that there should be some discussion as to why matt is scum rather than blue/assassin and that scum were using his bandwagon as an excuse to stifle discussion day one.
On September 04 2012 22:55 Ottoxlol wrote:
This just provides an easy wagon to jump onto and removes d1 discussion as a whole, no town benefit from that.
Just because he did not play well it doesnt mean he's scum.
On September 05 2012 00:58 Ottoxlol wrote:
I won't vote Matt because TL Mafia LIII. VE claimed Jailkeeper D1, I think that was the worst claim of all times. I made the first case on that, it was similar in a way that whether townVE or scumVE it was a very bad claim. We lynched him, and since almost everyone could easily vote on him without any reasoning we had no real info about anyone. Sounds familiar?
On September 05 2012 09:40 Ottoxlol wrote:
I can only see it as a very easy wagon. People jump on with zero discussion, zero contribution.
So Ox's stated motivation behind at least Questioning the matt wagon seems plausible as town. He wants to discuss the case on Matt and stop it from being an easy wagon that scum can bus/hide on and to promote discussion.
Yet his behaviour is at stark and direct opposition with his stated intention. He has absolutely crapped up the thread and actively limited discussion and scum hunting throughout day one. When I went to sleep yesterday the main topic of conversation were several people repeating themselves Ad nauseum and the direct consequence of this is that other topics of conversation have been drowned out in the noise. Now people may look at Ox and say that he is just a bad player or whatever, but when someone's stated motivations are in direct contradiction to his behaviour I see scum.
His defense of mattchew was incredibly wishy-washy in that he never explicitly states that he believes him to be town. He talks in probabilities and shifts the burden of proof onto others by asking 'why is it more likely for scum to do this than town?' whilst ignoring all rational explanations for the current situation.
He has been incredibly effective in making discussion of anything other than mattchew impossible whilst stating that this is what he wants to avoid.
TLDR; Ox's behaviour is in direct contradiction with his stated motivations. He has crapped all over the thread in order to make any conversation but the one that was already resolved incredibly difficult. Kid is Scum.
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Also Is there any way that DH/BC are not town?
I was around when the interplay between the two went down and the simplest explanation being the best:
BC sees matt's claim and has asked the mod already if NN are self aware. Matt is lying ergo he is scum.
DH and others do not have this information and ask BC for evidence based on something other than what he has publicly stated, which was that he was making an assumption.
After some discussion it is clear that BC pushing for a matt mislynch in this way would be incredibly short sighted and that the situation would be resolved upon confirmation of the role.
Both town reacting differently based on the different information available to them. Simplest explanation is the best.
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On September 06 2012 09:46 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Boson, Ottoxlol still has to respond to me how he came up with 5 red as the team size. Its not in the OP and no mod has come into thread clarifying thus it is unlikely they have decided how to respond to it yet.
Basically, as you guys all know how I caught mattchew day 1? Well until a mod comes in and clears him by saying the mafia # is something not 5 hes mafia. As of right now, the only people who have the actual mafia size # are mafia thus I believe it was an unintentional slip by him, but one that is unsurprising giving the heat he was taking.
Wow.
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On September 06 2012 09:59 Hapahauli wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 09:54 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 06 2012 08:39 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 06 2012 07:17 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 06 2012 07:03 Bill Murray wrote:
Ottox you care to make a top 3 scumread like I have? sorry to say you need vigged, but it'd be better if you would stop posting, or actually.. you know... do some work by reading filters and making logical cases ...wow this looks like coaching. I see... I see... maybe I should ease up on my suspicion of Forumite.
Scum could easily just be playing the lurker game this game, but if that's the case, let 'em sit back while players like BC and Toad get confirmed. Toad is scum. Hapahauli confirmed my suspicions by his last post, he's purposely trying to skew the discussion. I think these two are defending their mates by not letting the Matt discussion go on -> the other 2 possibly are lurkers who voted on Matt with no real content. imallinson Z-BosoN Shady Sands DarthPunk ShiaoPi BlackMamba24 goodkarma all voted Matt after Palmar's announcment and provide little to no reasoning. Bad town or scum can easily be among them See I am not sure if anyone else caught this as I am still reading / catching up but no where in the OP does it tell me that I can see how many red's there are. As in town doesn't know how big the mafia team is. By telling us that happa + toad are defending matt and the other two are lurkers means you KNOW THERE ARE 5. So, I say we off you next. If Palmar said the exact scum team numbers somewhere I have missed I apologize for my outburst and will find other people to hang. For those who missed it the first time. He clearly states happa + toad are trying to defend their "mates" or in this case "mate" by trying to drop the matt discussion. This is 3 reds. He then states the other 2 mafia are lurkers who voted with no real content then generically lists a bunch of lurkers and DrH who has been one of the most active players in the game. But he told us 5. 2 defending 1 and then 2 in a group of lurkers. It wasn't I think there are two more or anything. he clearly outlines 2 defending their scumbuddy by shutting down conversation (lul as that wasnt the reason they argued with him) and 2 in lurkers. Guy outright mislabeled one of the most active players calling him a "lurker" and outed the mafia team # as 5. Burn him with fire. Perhaps I'm reading this wrong, but isn't he suggesting 4 mafia members in that post? At the time he made that post, I was under the impression that he thought Mattchew was town.
Really? Matt, Hapa, Toad, +2.
I really don't understand why you are defending this guy so hard, When you have been really quick to jump all over far less scummy players IMO.
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On September 06 2012 10:04 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 09:59 Hapahauli wrote:On September 06 2012 09:54 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 06 2012 08:39 BloodyC0bbler wrote:On September 06 2012 07:17 Ottoxlol wrote:On September 06 2012 07:03 Bill Murray wrote:
Ottox you care to make a top 3 scumread like I have? sorry to say you need vigged, but it'd be better if you would stop posting, or actually.. you know... do some work by reading filters and making logical cases ...wow this looks like coaching. I see... I see... maybe I should ease up on my suspicion of Forumite.
Scum could easily just be playing the lurker game this game, but if that's the case, let 'em sit back while players like BC and Toad get confirmed. Toad is scum. Hapahauli confirmed my suspicions by his last post, he's purposely trying to skew the discussion. I think these two are defending their mates by not letting the Matt discussion go on -> the other 2 possibly are lurkers who voted on Matt with no real content. imallinson Z-BosoN Shady Sands DarthPunk ShiaoPi BlackMamba24 goodkarma all voted Matt after Palmar's announcment and provide little to no reasoning. Bad town or scum can easily be among them See I am not sure if anyone else caught this as I am still reading / catching up but no where in the OP does it tell me that I can see how many red's there are. As in town doesn't know how big the mafia team is. By telling us that happa + toad are defending matt and the other two are lurkers means you KNOW THERE ARE 5. So, I say we off you next. If Palmar said the exact scum team numbers somewhere I have missed I apologize for my outburst and will find other people to hang. For those who missed it the first time. He clearly states happa + toad are trying to defend their "mates" or in this case "mate" by trying to drop the matt discussion. This is 3 reds. He then states the other 2 mafia are lurkers who voted with no real content then generically lists a bunch of lurkers and DrH who has been one of the most active players in the game. But he told us 5. 2 defending 1 and then 2 in a group of lurkers. It wasn't I think there are two more or anything. he clearly outlines 2 defending their scumbuddy by shutting down conversation (lul as that wasnt the reason they argued with him) and 2 in lurkers. Guy outright mislabeled one of the most active players calling him a "lurker" and outed the mafia team # as 5. Burn him with fire. Perhaps I'm reading this wrong, but isn't he suggesting 4 mafia members in that post? At the time he made that post, I was under the impression that he thought Mattchew was town. Really? Matt, Hapa, Toad, +2. I really don't understand why you are defending this guy so hard, When you have been really quick to jump all over far less scummy players IMO.
NVM I didn't read your post properly. If this was done in the context of matt being town this is far less of a sure thing than I thought it was. My bad.
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Where is Shady? He had a 5 page filter Day One in my last game with him and loves to take a town leadership position right off the bat as town. I can understand your meta changing somewhat in a non-newbie/ game of this size. But this is a dramatic shift in style.
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On September 06 2012 10:15 Z-BosoN wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 10:06 DoctorHelvetica wrote:On September 06 2012 10:03 Z-BosoN wrote:On September 06 2012 09:58 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
BC says the same thing i'm saying about how he lied about my arguments/activity level but I guess when he says it people agree
whatever
@boson my main case against ottox is him not pushing his reads and completely ignoring peoples arguments/logic while pushing his defense which is exactly what suggests that he has a preconceived agenda
no one is gonna listen to me in this game so ill keep doing what i'vebeen doing which is make a point, wait for BC to repeat it so that everyone suddenly agrees lol
Wtf?? He introduced a totally different argument!! Are you even reading right now? I got that from your post and I said those were supporting arguments but not enough to say omfg let's lynch him, due to my experience with SolarSail. However, the scumslip pointed out by BC is subtle and very VERY likely for a scum under pressure to make. the 5 mafia slip is the least important part of the whole thing because even I just assumed there were 5 scum, in fact idr if i posted it but i might have posted a scumteam guess that was exactly 5 Then why did you say that BC repeated your arguments and said the same thing you did? I clearly gave emphasis to the one he had just added. Well, we are just at a difference of opinion then, you think that his attitude and behavior is more lynch-worthy than him defending matt and this "scumslip". I insist yet again you read SolarSail on XXIV, here, it's pretty fast: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=359489&user=273717 It sums up why I think his behavior could be more bad play than scum play. At least now we both agree that without a doubt loloxtott must die.
I really don't see how meta analysis of other players helps derive any insight into Otto's play other than that people can be retarded. Which everyone already knows.
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On September 06 2012 10:20 BloodyC0bbler wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 10:17 DarthPunk wrote:
Where is Shady? He had a 5 page filter Day One in my last game with him and loves to take a town leadership position right off the bat as town. I can understand your meta changing somewhat in a non-newbie/ game of this size. But this is a dramatic shift in style. Which game are you referring to. I would like a reference so I can get an idea of his town playstyle.
NMM XXIV His Filter
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Shady was scum in XXV but he still was very active and tried to take a leadership role early also. Meh just odd as I have played/obs 3 of his last games and it doesn't fit.
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On September 06 2012 10:28 Ottoxlol wrote:
Come on guys, now you are just embarrassing yourselves. what difference does it make in my post if there are 4-5-6-7-8 scum? If that is a scumslip in your opinion.. I really hope you guys get your shit together
OK. Then can you answer my case against you? or are you just going to ignore it like you ignore common sense, logic and everyone else in the thread?
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On September 06 2012 10:42 Ottoxlol wrote:Ofc I don't give a shit about this game anymore when everyone ignores logic, even you failed to answer my question about why the scum would claim. @Darth I already answered it. It is stupid. You almost uniquely amongst the player realize my motivation but then Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 09:34 DarthPunk wrote:
Yet his behaviour is at stark and direct opposition with his stated intention. He has absolutely crapped up the thread and actively limited discussion and scum hunting throughout day one. When I went to sleep yesterday the main topic of conversation were several people repeating themselves Ad nauseum and the direct consequence of this is that other topics of conversation have been drowned out in the noise. Now people may look at Ox and say that he is just a bad player or whatever, but when someone's stated motivations are in direct contradiction to his behaviour I see scum.
His defense of mattchew was incredibly wishy-washy in that he never explicitly states that he believes him to be town. He talks in probabilities and shifts the burden of proof onto others by asking 'why is it more likely for scum to do this than town?' whilst ignoring all rational explanations for the current situation.
He has been incredibly effective in making discussion of anything other than mattchew impossible whilst stating that this is what he wants to avoid.
TLDR; Ox's behaviour is in direct contradiction with his stated motivations. He has crapped all over the thread in order to make any conversation but the one that was already resolved incredibly difficult. Kid is Scum. This. You fail to see that my behaviour made scum slip, made everyone talk more about why did they vote on Matt. Its exactly what my motivation was. I haven't been called kid in a while, it is offensive since you are the one incapable of understanding the most basic logic.
Sorry if calling you kid offended you. Just internet slang. My bad. But I would like to ask how do you resolve your stated intention of not limiting discussion through the matt lynch, with crapping up the thread, ignoring everyones response to you, lying by saying they have not responded and stifling the discussion you claim to promote?
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EPT
