|
On August 18 2012 10:16 thrawn2112 wrote:-snip- Mkfuba made it very clear that he thought I was town, and he also voted against shady. According to the reasoning that darthpunk was using before the night post, shouldn't darthpunk also have thought mkfuba was scum? Nothing was said about mkfuba, and he was killed during the night cycle. Mkfuba wrote out the longest and strongest defense of me, and he is the one who got killed during the night. Why wasn't Archrun the one the mafia killed? Because I killed him with my 1 bullet received from my being Town Vigilante. It was completely reasonable for me to do that from a town thrawn perspective. I was already suspicious of Archrun because of his first few posts. I thought since before the lnych that there was a scum mission to get me lynched. Archrun was one of the first people to vote thrawn. Before the vote ended he stated that if shady is town, then thrawn should be lynched. After the lynch I began to focus on him, and he never replied to my posts. Killing him ended up being the wrong decision, but it was clearly in line with what my past reads on Archrun were. Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 10:03 DarthPunk wrote: Your Harry made an entire case about you being town which was based on Archrun being scum. Shady had a scum read on you. Dead. Confirmed town. Archrun had a scum read on you. Dead. Confirmed town. Mkfuba07 had a scum read on Your Harry. Dead. Confirmed town. Mkfuba may have had a scum read on yourharry, but he VOTED for shady (who I voted for) and VERY STRONGLY defended me. He was killed, and flipped town. Why would I as scum thrawn kill mkfuba who was the strongest defender of me being town?
Okay. So thrawn just claimed Vigilante.
Guess what? That puts him in an even worse spot. Because if he were to look at my case against him, there is pretty strong evidence that him and Ochrow share a QT. Meaning that if they're not masons, they are scum.
@thrawn: Thanks for clearing up that you're not a mason .
##Vote: thrawn2112
And, I've already said it once, but I'll say it again:
##FoS: Ochrow ##FoS: YourHarry
I'd be happy to see any of them lynched as I'm certain they're all scum.
|
@thrawn:
On August 18 2012 10:36 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 10:32 goodkarma wrote:On August 18 2012 10:16 thrawn2112 wrote:-snip- Mkfuba made it very clear that he thought I was town, and he also voted against shady. According to the reasoning that darthpunk was using before the night post, shouldn't darthpunk also have thought mkfuba was scum? Nothing was said about mkfuba, and he was killed during the night cycle. Mkfuba wrote out the longest and strongest defense of me, and he is the one who got killed during the night. Why wasn't Archrun the one the mafia killed? Because I killed him with my 1 bullet received from my being Town Vigilante. It was completely reasonable for me to do that from a town thrawn perspective. I was already suspicious of Archrun because of his first few posts. I thought since before the lnych that there was a scum mission to get me lynched. Archrun was one of the first people to vote thrawn. Before the vote ended he stated that if shady is town, then thrawn should be lynched. After the lynch I began to focus on him, and he never replied to my posts. Killing him ended up being the wrong decision, but it was clearly in line with what my past reads on Archrun were. On August 18 2012 10:03 DarthPunk wrote: Your Harry made an entire case about you being town which was based on Archrun being scum. Shady had a scum read on you. Dead. Confirmed town. Archrun had a scum read on you. Dead. Confirmed town. Mkfuba07 had a scum read on Your Harry. Dead. Confirmed town. Mkfuba may have had a scum read on yourharry, but he VOTED for shady (who I voted for) and VERY STRONGLY defended me. He was killed, and flipped town. Why would I as scum thrawn kill mkfuba who was the strongest defender of me being town? Okay. So thrawn just claimed Vigilante. Guess what? That puts him in an even worse spot. Because if he were to look at my case against him, there is pretty strong evidence that him and Ochrow share a QT. Meaning that if they're not masons, they are scum. @thrawn: Thanks for clearing up that you're not a mason . ##Vote: thrawn2112And, I've already said it once, but I'll say it again: ##FoS: Ochrow##FoS: YourHarryI'd be happy to see any of them lynched as I'm certain they're all scum. Did you read all of my post? You didn't mention anything about the arguments I made concerning mkfuba.
I sure did. Don't think you're the first scum to strategically coordinate NK'ing someone to make yourself look less suspicious.:
On August 18 2012 06:13 Ochrow wrote: At the moment I'm going to stick with my earlier suspicions and say that unless something very suspicious happens we should vote Archrun. But at the same time Thrawn's sheeping makes me suspicious of him, though I still have more of a townie read on him. So I think right now we are going to have to focus a lot on who the kills are tonight.
Feels like a great post to set up your defense post the next day. There was almost enough votes to lynch you yesterday, so mkfuba was definitely a good strategic NK for scum to make for the reasons you've highlighted in your defense.
|
@YourHarry:
Any suggestions as to who this someone else is that we should lynch?
My first thoughts are either Orchrow or you.
You seem to be very interested in keeping thrawn alive as long as possible... I suggest you start making some meaningful suggestions as to who you feel looks scummier. And it would also be helpful if you commented on people's most recent cases against thrawn, Orchrow, and yourself instead of continuing to strive to keep Thrawn alive.
There are situations here where the vigi still shouldn't claim. Like what if there is an sk, but the vigi hasn't used his shot yet? A vigi counter claim here would be terrible, as he could wind up rb'ed by scum and NK'ed before he can do anything.
And if we wait, who's to say town doesn't get a successful medic save or rb? Or that scum or the sk (if he exists) doesn't just sit back and do nothing for one night? There's a few different ways that there could be an sk but fewer than two night kills.
Waiting achieves nothing. My read, and the read of several of us here, is that thrawn is scum. It's time for him to go. Read through the case points against him, and show us why you feel he might be town. It's more productive than your WIFOM defense of thrawn you're presenting now.
|
@Stutters:
I highly encourage you to read my case, which was posted just before the official day 2 post. There is strong reason to suspect that Thrawn is scum. I'll tell you what I told YourHarry:
There is really no reason to wait.
If after looking at my case you still feel that Thrawn isn't scum, I encourage you to share your defense of him with us. The biggest problem I see with your post is that I've already highlighted who all of the scum are.
A cornered scum would have no problem lying about his role to get out of a lynch, and that's what I see is the case with Thrawn.
|
On August 18 2012 14:35 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 14:29 goodkarma wrote: A cornered scum would have no problem lying about his role to get out of a lynch, and that's what I see is the case with Thrawn. Like stutters said, a scum role claiming vig when he doesn't know who the real vig is would be pretty bad play because the scum would be leaving himself open to a counter claim when he has no idea who the vig is.
The problem with this logic is that no one knows if there's an sk + Show Spoiler +(except the sk, if he does exist) . So, there may not even be a vigilante...
And you felt it was necessary to inquire if there could be two vigis, a setup that though possible is fairly unlikely. It feels like you're already trying to find an escape route if you get caught up in your lie.
|
@Thrawn:
On August 18 2012 15:04 thrawn2112 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 14:52 goodkarma wrote:On August 18 2012 14:35 thrawn2112 wrote:On August 18 2012 14:29 goodkarma wrote: A cornered scum would have no problem lying about his role to get out of a lynch, and that's what I see is the case with Thrawn. Like stutters said, a scum role claiming vig when he doesn't know who the real vig is would be pretty bad play because the scum would be leaving himself open to a counter claim when he has no idea who the vig is. The problem with this logic is that no one knows if there's an sk + Show Spoiler +(except the sk, if he does exist) . So, there may not even be a vigilante... The scum player wouldn't know this. He would be gambling on there not being a vig.Show nested quote +And you felt it was necessary to inquire if there could be two vigis, a setup that though possible is fairly unlikely. It feels like you're already trying to find an escape route if you get caught up in your lie. I asked if there could be 2 vigs because I was planning on asking for a vig counter claim. Since there could be two I decided asking for a counter claim was a bad idea because if there is another vig and he counter claimed then I would look pretty bad.
So then you would agree it's possible, that a scum player would make a vig role claim in your shoes?
Honestly, we could argue to death your vigi. role claim, but it's only a waste of time. I want to hear what you have to say about the case points currently against you. Read up on my case on you, which is posted right before the day 2 post. And tell me where in that case I'm wrong about you. I'm tired of hearing role claims and WIFOM from you. The longer you stall in providing an actual defense, the guiltier you're looking.
|
@Thrawn:
I'm looking forward to your response.
@Ochrow:
You seem to have disappeared... Please look at my case post on you and explain your actions. I can't think of any town-motivated reason for why you lied to us.
|
@Thrawn:
I would like to thank you for not only providing a quality defense post, but also continuing on with the scumhunt. You have given me a lot to think about, and you can expect me to carefully consider your points in a follow-up post to your case I plan to write in the very near future.
@Ochrow:
You still haven't responded to my case post against you with any kind of analysis. It would be in your best interest to respond soon.
@Z-Boson:
You have some quality analysis of other people's posts (including my own) that you have spoilered. In the future, if you would kindly not spoiler them that would be great. People will look over the thread, and, some of them will be lazy and never see what you've said. And that really sucks because I feel what you have there is a significant contribution this thread could use right now.
And: @everyone:
I know that the Thrawn lynch has gathered quite a bit of support, but remember there is more than one scum. You have no reason to stop posting and pressuring your scum reads.
|
Regarding Thrawn:
I know that now about half of us have voted for him, but consider this: as of now he has provided both a reasonable defense and his own scum reads. While some may feel he has made "scumslips" in his choice of words, remember that Shady was guilty of the same thing and he was town. What I'm looking for is a town motivation, which speaks far louder than any one "scumslip." "Scumlips," quite honestly, can be made by town or scum.
When I look at Thrawn's most recent play today, he started off quite poorly. He made some WIFOM argument about why he would never kill Mkfuba as scum, and used Mkfuba's defense of him in place of any real defense of his own. However, since then, he has made a post that directly addresses everything I brought up about him in my case post. He claims that the post timing for both him and Ochrow I pointed out is merely coincidence. While I still find that a little hard to believe, I'm looking at his actions too.
He has made constructive, pro-town posts even when facing the strong possibility of a lynch. He has presented his own case against YourHarry, and has encouraged others to present their own reasonings behind their posts and not sheep behind a lynch bandwaggon.
And then there's the matter of the vigi claim. While I stand by what I've said about a vigi claim being just as plausible for a scum to make, and that there's no certain way of knowing if his claim is true outside of a lynch, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt here. It is plausible he vigi killed Archrun. It would be consistent with his actions.
An important component of my case against him is that I believe him and Ochrow have a shared QT, and that their views are eerily similar as though aligned via said QT. If either Ochrow or Thrawn flips red, it gives my "shared QT" case point that much more validity, but I'm not willing to send one possibly innocent player to death just to see if my case is right. First and foremost, we hunt scum, and thrawn's most recent actions feel significantly pro-town to me.
As it is, they're both unflipped, and, imho this makes this case point much weaker, and my case in general not the "sure-fire thing" I claimed it to be at the time. I was super-excited with my findings at the time, as putting everything together you get a very neat theory going where everything seems to nicely fit together. But players often will post on similar things at the same time, and that's plausibly the case with Thrawn and Ochrow. However, I do still feel that Ochrow and Thrawn posted so much that was similar at the exact same time my case can't be completely disregarded, and these two individuals should be looked at with extra suspicion. I definitely got a little ahead of myself, but going forward, as always, I'm going to vote for the player who I feel has the strongest scum read.
If my shared QT case is to be true, Ochrow is just as important a component. He is my focus for the time being. While Thrawn still could be scum, I can't help but feel that we could be losing a strong town presence if he is telling the truth with his vigi claim. With Ochrow, on the other hand, we would lose pretty much nothing (as I will be discussing shortly).
For now:
##Unvote Thrawn
Regarding Ochrow:
I've already presented much of my case against him, and I'm still waiting for his response. But let's look past that for now, and assume he's just another player that we need to get a read on. Looking through his filter, the first thing you'll see is that it's rather sparse. The second thing you'll see is he hasn't really had a firm stance on anyone. He even tries to defend this.:
On August 17 2012 05:54 Ochrow wrote: -snip- On the case against Thrawn and I: I feel like once again Shady is reading too much into things. As far as the combined case claiming that we are both scum and are working together goes it is based almost entirely off of the timing of our post and the fact that Thrawn copied what I said. However, saying that we are obviously working together makes no sense when it is based purely off of the fact that the second person, in this case Thrawn, merely rewords a public post that I made. I can understand why you would be a bit suspicious, but by your logic one scum could just go around copying and rewording the posts of every person in the game and would therefore have to be in secret contact with every single one of them. The fact of the matter is that there was no insider information that was shared all that happened was that Thrawn piggybacked on somebody else's post and just agree with them. As for my fair and balanced posts or however it was that Shady described them, I simply have not been able to divine that much from what most people are saying, though I will admit to being a timid poster. But at the moment I don't feel I have solid reads on pretty much anyone and so the result of that is I try not to alienate people, though I understand why Shady would be suspicious of that because his goal seems to be to piss off everybody and alienate them all. -snip-
Even if my shared QT case point doesn't hold water, looking at Ochrow's actions, he is distinctly scummy. He is pretty lurky, and hasn't stuck his neck out on any case argument, spending much of his efforts on a safe "policy lurker vote" against Archrun. His favorite stance on others is pretty much a wishy-washy "I don't know."
My read on him is he's a lurky scum with no interest in actively participating in scum-hunting. This alone is enough merit to earn my vote. That his flip will provide valuable information on my shared QT case point is an added bonus.
##Vote: Ochrow
|
On August 19 2012 00:30 YourHarry wrote:@Jhuyt I think I know who you are coming from. I admit I may have looked scummy, but please read This Post carefullyShow nested quote +On August 18 2012 18:09 thrawn2112 wrote: FOS yourharry
Yourharry has a long track record of posting one liners. One liners are likely to come from scum, as the scum can appear active and even appear to be scumhunting without saying anything of substance for the town to analyze. I have gone through his filter and quoted all his one liners. I tried not to include posts that shouldn't be relevant, such as asking mods questions and things like that. There are several posts I didn't include that were very short but at least were composed of more than a single sentence Do you think I specifically need those one liners to appear to be scum hunting and active? Really?? And flip-flopping of my votes is just reflection of my changing reads on people. Some of my suspicions could have come from gut feeling, but I think I can explain most of my flip flops. I will do it later if people ask me to.I will be back later. Hopefully we'd get some posts from the lurkers. Z-boson, Ochrow, and Solar need to post more.
YourHarry, please explain your flip-flops.
Thanks .
|
@YourHarry:
Now that you're back, would you mind taking a few moments to share your read on Ochrow? You've been very vocal about others, but I've heard hardly anything about him from you.
|
@YourHarry:
On August 19 2012 13:24 YourHarry wrote: GK, do you still think Ochrow is scum with Thrawn and me?
Yes, I still think it's entirely possible. I will not, however, say it's 100% certain as I implied in my original case post. Especially in your case, if Ochrow or Thrawn flip scum, my shared QT suspicions do not directly apply to you so I would say in that case you would be my third scum read.
The biggest issue I have with your posting behavior right now is that you seem to make a vote or read with little explanation, and then explain away your actions later. It's bad play + Show Spoiler +(ironically, as both town and scum) in my eyes, but I could see you doing this as either town or scum. If I were to look past your highly suspicious vote switch to Shady at the end of day one, I still have a few other points I need to consider.
You explain your stance on Thrawn, and why you feel he's town. Your case for Thrawn being town is weak, but at least you do explain it... The problem with drawing a "connection theory" between you, Thrawn, and Orchrow is that although it fits neatly, none of you have flipped. My original case right now is based on a lot of assumptions. This is why I've focused on further evidence of scummy behavior as a basis for my vote in day 2 with my original case as a starting point on who to pressure.
You claim you have a town read on Ochrow. Unfortunately, at this point, that's not enough. You need to explain exactly why you think this. You seem to take pride in trusting your gut, but unfortunately we can't read your gut. It's your responsibility to translate what your gut tells you into some kind of logic you can put on paper. Otherwise, we have no idea where you're coming from. And if you're town, that's an easy way to get mislynched.
Regarding Darthpunk's argument about you not pursuing Ochrow, it's true Ochrow has become quite the lurker but at the time there were far guiltier lurkers so I can understand how he didn't make your list. I do find it a little suspicious that you have completely disregarded him until being asked for your read, though.
TL;DR: I'm going to need to reassess my reads on you tomorrow, but yes. Ochrow, Thrawn, and YourHarry are still on my suspects list. If I were to prioritize them right now it would go: 1) Ochrow 2) YourHarry 3) Thrawn
If I find something when I reread filters tomorrow though, this could change.
@Everyone who hasn't voted:
You are acting against town's best interests by voting late. Your scum reads are valuable. By voting too late they can't be considered by the rest of us. Consider this, as I will be keeping a careful eye as to who is last-minute sheeping their votes.
Now is the time for us to start consolidating our votes, and determining who of the accused would be the best lynch candidate. I will definitely be back before the voting deadline to reassess my reads, but for now I'm keeping my vote where it is.
If Ochrow is to be modkilled, I will obviously change my vote. But even if he is to be replaced, I still feel I have a strong scum read on him. I know it's complete WIFOM, but if you look at the nonsense he posted to get temp-banned, he was definitely asking for it. Perhaps this was (as scum) out of disinterest in continuing this game as he felt he had no chance of winning.
|
On August 20 2012 00:37 Obvious.660 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2012 00:17 thrawn2112 wrote:On August 20 2012 00:00 Obvious.660 wrote:Goodkarma is at the top of my suspects list right now. + Show Spoiler [the most ridiculous thing ever] +On August 18 2012 10:32 goodkarma wrote:Show nested quote +On August 18 2012 10:16 thrawn2112 wrote:-snip- Mkfuba made it very clear that he thought I was town, and he also voted against shady. According to the reasoning that darthpunk was using before the night post, shouldn't darthpunk also have thought mkfuba was scum? Nothing was said about mkfuba, and he was killed during the night cycle. Mkfuba wrote out the longest and strongest defense of me, and he is the one who got killed during the night. Why wasn't Archrun the one the mafia killed? Because I killed him with my 1 bullet received from my being Town Vigilante. It was completely reasonable for me to do that from a town thrawn perspective. I was already suspicious of Archrun because of his first few posts. I thought since before the lnych that there was a scum mission to get me lynched. Archrun was one of the first people to vote thrawn. Before the vote ended he stated that if shady is town, then thrawn should be lynched. After the lynch I began to focus on him, and he never replied to my posts. Killing him ended up being the wrong decision, but it was clearly in line with what my past reads on Archrun were. On August 18 2012 10:03 DarthPunk wrote: Your Harry made an entire case about you being town which was based on Archrun being scum. Shady had a scum read on you. Dead. Confirmed town. Archrun had a scum read on you. Dead. Confirmed town. Mkfuba07 had a scum read on Your Harry. Dead. Confirmed town. Mkfuba may have had a scum read on yourharry, but he VOTED for shady (who I voted for) and VERY STRONGLY defended me. He was killed, and flipped town. Why would I as scum thrawn kill mkfuba who was the strongest defender of me being town? Okay. So thrawn just claimed Vigilante. Guess what? That puts him in an even worse spot. Because if he were to look at my case against him, there is pretty strong evidence that him and Ochrow share a QT. Meaning that if they're not masons, they are scum. @thrawn: Thanks for clearing up that you're not a mason . ##Vote: thrawn2112And, I've already said it once, but I'll say it again: ##FoS: Ochrow##FoS: YourHarryI'd be happy to see any of them lynched as I'm certain they're all scum. I'm just trying to wrap my head around this post, so bear with me. GK is convinced that Thrawn and Ochrow (now me) are of the same alignment. If we're not mason buddies, then we're scum together, and one of those scums is a vigilante? Is anyone else seeing how this is the most ridiculous claim ever? If we are backing up to question ourselves: "Is Thrawn actually a vigilante?" then I have something to say regarding that. It's a lot easier to prove you're a vigilante if you make a believable breadcrumb that when revealed shows you haven't lied, but we're in a pickle as far as that's concerned because all we seem to have is a weak breadcrumb and Thrawn's word that he is a vig and spent his one shot last night. On top of that, GK is CERTAIN of my alignment as scum. It seems that he knows more about me than I do, and I suggest everyone take a good hard look at GK today and see if you can agree that he's being pretty scummy here. ##VOTE: goodkarma Are you saying that goodkarma thought that I was a vig and that I was scum? I didn't get that from gk's post. Actually gk seemed to completely distrust my vig claim. I don't think I understand your argument...could you explain it again? The short answer, since I have to leave for a few hours, is: What possible motivation is there for putting two people I am confident are town on the same list and claiming with absolute certainty that they are all scum. The only answer is: it comes from someone who knows their alignments. Scum motivation. Notice how a mislynch on me can be cast aside as "he was a lurker anyway" among the other points brought up against Ochrow. Notice how a mislynch on you can be cast aside as "his vig claim wasn't strong enough and his breadcrumb was weak so we had no reason to believe him anyway". Goodkarma has a history of policy talk that really gets the town no where, followed up by going after lurkers.
@Obvious,
I have made rather thorough posts regarding my case against you, and against the other two I suspect to be scum. I already have addressed the "certainty" I felt at the time, and so I will not repeat myself now. I'd recommend you discuss the actual case points I have against your predecessor (and by extension, you).
The bolded part of your statement honestly makes little sense to me... First you're saying that because your predecessor was lurky you're an easy target. I do understand this, but first and foremost we scumhunt. You are my strongest scum read. Therefore I vote for you. If you were to look at my post history this game, you'd see I've aggressively pursued my scum suspects, and not all of them were "lurkers."
As for my "lurker hunting history," perhaps you'd like to share your "meta read" on this, and why this makes me scum. I don't follow this at all.
And then there's the "I will be gone for a few hours now." In other words, "I won't be able to follow up in this thread until after the voting deadline. K thx bye." This is a great way to distance yourself from further accusation, as who is going to bother accusing you when you're not going to be around? You're a replacement, and many here would be willing to give you a chance to explain Ochrow's actions. Living to see another day is scum's first priority, and this is a great move to achieve this.
If you're going to discuss "meta reads" Darthpunk should agree with me that while you (as VT in NMM XXII) could be a bit emotional at times, you had your moments when you'd make good case points.
However, this post isn't any kind of emotional outburst. Your case against me feels methodical. When you add to that how weak it is, and how you just jump out of the thread right after jumping in, I don't see you as the same Obvious I played with in XXII. I still feel your play is scum-motivated.
Prove me wrong by mounting a meaningful defense against my case against you instead of only contributing a weak OMGUS vote. Until you do I'm keeping my vote on you.
|
@Z-boson:
First I'd like to thank you for taking the time to re-affirm your read on Thrawn. As the deadline approaches, many have just voted, then afk-ed from the thread altogether.
Okay, so here we go, for the last time. My "certainty" that Thrawn and the other two (Ochrow, YourHarry) were scum was tied partially to the shared scum QT case point I made, as well as how neatly they seemed to be supporting each other as "townies" against popular stances of the time. The problem with this case, which I had elevated to the point of "I'm certain," is that none of these players have flipped yet. However excited I was at the time that I had "solved the game," I overlooked the possibility of there being some coincidence in their stances, and by nature of them being different from the mainstream that I naturally became biased towards them. That's not to say that I have completely disregarded my original case, but it's not at the level of "100% certain" that I had originally believed it to be.
At the very least, Thrawn directly disputed my case. Feel free to read his filter if this is a point of disbelief for you. I felt that he dealt with my case points as best he could if he truly was town. And instead of curling up in a defensive ball, he made his own case points against YourHarry, which I felt showed he was just as interested in scumhunting as showing his innocence (a pro-town trait). And as for the vigi claim, though as I've said before (now several times...) is not 100% confirmable outside of a flip, there is the possibility of giving him another day to see if the kill count goes down to one, which would at least be some evidence supporting his claim.
If my shared QT case is to be believed, then Ochrow is also scum. I personally find him more scummy than Thrawn right now, and that is why I've voted for him. If you've read my filter you would know that Thrawn is still on my scum suspects list. I have not forgotten about him, but he's not my strongest scum read right now.
|
As the deadline is now only 4 hours away, I would like to encourage everyone to make a post to either re-affirm or change your votes. At the very least please discuss your reads on the two players that have gained the most support: Thrawn and YourHarry. If you could also chip in on the others who have received a vote (Obvious and myself), that would be great .
|
@Thrawn:
I looked to the latest votecount, and missed your vote. Jhuyt, too, should be discussed. As the only person on the list I haven't discussed on day 2, let me briefly share my thoughts.
I did find Jhuyt scummy enough to vote for day 1, and I don't feel the reasons I originally had for voting him have really changed. And then there's the quote you brought up in your voting post:
On August 20 2012 00:36 Jhuyt wrote:ok, I found something in Harry's filter, it isn't much but I thought it was kind of interesting. Show nested quote +On August 15 2012 12:48 YourHarry wrote: I will explain later, or maybe it will sort itself out.
FOS Following people still have not posted:
Golbat Jhuyt Z-BosoN Ochrow
In this post he was very clear with whom had not yet posted, so I assume he made the effort to look through the filters and found us. later on he says this: Show nested quote +As to why I did not call out Ochrow: I was not even aware of it. How many times did I call lurkers out - I did not make sure that I got every single lurkers out. In fact, I thought in one of the list, I copied lurker list provided by previous poster and eliminated names who posted since then. I simply missed him for some reason... Here he claims that he did not try to find everybody, so he lied, or forgot about it, I'd say he lied. This is the problem with YourHarry, he makes posts that consist of nothing and he makes claims he immediatly retract. It doesn't matter if you're scum or town, this is just bad play on all parts and super anti-town.
For this I'm going to vote for YourHarry##Vote: YourHarry
In other words, Jhuyt has chosen to prioritize lynching YourHarry even if he is only a bad town.
So in one word, yes. I find him scummy. However, I never really had a strong scum read on him. My day one vote was a combination of a vote based on wishy-washy behavior and semi-lurking. Combined with this one "scumslip," I don't see enough there to convince me he's scummier than Obvious, as "scumslips" can be made by town or scum. Especially with Obvious so hesitant to present any kind of defense against my case posts against his predecessor (and by extension, him) or him.
|
@Z-boson:
That's the gist of it, but I feel you're oversimplifying things a little. That Thrawn was content with a WIFOM defense early day two, in addition to some of his day one play (as I've already discussed), is enough to still suspect he's scum. But his most recent actions (his defense of my case against him and his most recent cases against others) coincide with what I'd expect from a townie, as instead of going completely on the defensive he's still actively pursuing scum suspects. Further, the vigi claim, though it cannot be 100% supported, can be at least partially supported by a one kill night. And obviously almost completely disproven by another two kill night + Show Spoiler +(there could be two vigis, but really, I highly doubt this) . For these reasons, I strongly urge everyone to at least reaffirm in a post why they voted Thrawn, and carefully look into my case on Ochrow/Obvious. Because I definitely believe Ochrow/Obvious is a better lynch right now.
You're certainly entitled to be dissatisfied with what I've said, but I feel I've explained clearly my stances on my current scum suspects. I've had to repeat myself a few times now, so expect this time to be my last.
You mention you will look into Darthpunk's case on YourHarry and the Thrawn's case on Jhuyt, but I would also appreciate your input on my case against Obvious/Ochrow.
|
EBWOP: above post in response to this post by Z-boson:
On August 20 2012 06:14 Z-BosoN wrote: @goodkarma
Ok, just so I can see if I understand you correctly. You still find both thrawn and obvious scum (will say obvious from now on), but you find Obvious more scummy than thrawn, since thrawn is actually contributing and bothering to defend himself (at least against your arguments), you will go for Obvious?
|
@SolarSail:
On August 20 2012 06:44 Solarsail wrote: My current vote, thrawn. He did a very poor job of defending himself initially with the WIFOM and the claim (which if real is both highly convenient and misplaced), but then he's improved by responding to more accusations. I know 'lack of reading' is a general accusation against him but D1 I thought he was responding quite well, in full and with evidence, to all questions asked. So I would say it's just a D2 behaviour to be missing things a little.
I agree with much of gk's posting minus the initial shared QT accusation because that is unlikely to have produced the coincidental posts with the same agenda. The lying to us, lurking, nonaggression and general avoidance of Ochrow/Obvious stands out a lot more (oh and the OMGUS vote) and YH has demonstrated some serious read errors and flip flops if he is indeed town. So my case against Thrawn is mostly by association with YH and Ochrow than directly. I will keep my vote on him because it is a combined one from gk's case and thrawn's individual behaviour. However /unlike/ GK I will not switch around as people's defences go up and down with each post. I will be around at the deadline but I don't plan to switch.
The lurkers simply have not posted enough to make any case as strong as vs Thrawn or vs Obvious so I can't justify voting for them instead of those two. This is possibly by design; if so they are lucky that D1 was intense and D2 was focused on a single case to avoid attention.
So, in other words, you're saying that Thrawn looks scummy by association with Obvious and YourHarry? I've already mentioned this before, but you should vote your strongest scum read. Voting because of association, when none of the suspects have actually flipped, can be dangerous. I've already described how this could cause bias, and it is one of the reasons for switching my vote. Ochrow just outright is a stronger scum read than Thrawn for me right now.
I don't follow your logic when you say you won't switch your vote, when it seems you already have a stronger scum read on Ochrow/Obvious than on Thrawn. If your read is solely based off "association," then I would urge you to reconsider your vote.
And regarding my vote switch, I'm not following a policy of "present your defense and I won't vote for you." But the fact that Ochrow, and now Obvious, have not presented a defense of any kind to the case points against him gives me a stronger scum read on him. His choice to afk from thread until after the vote tells me he's trying to buy enough time to survive today's lynch and make it to the next day, which is scum-motivated behavior.
|
@Obvious,
I'm glad to see you're back.
You're right in that you can't see Ochrow's game plan via telepathy. But you should still be able to help us see Ochrow's motivations from a town perspective (if you indeed are town). What's more, you haven't weighed in on either Thrawn or YourHarry, who are both under heavy suspicion and one of whom (Thrawn) is currently set to be lynched.
It may seem unfair to be expected, as a replacement, to pick up exactly where your predecessor left off, but this is what I'm expecting of you nonetheless. Even after reading a few pages of case posts against the two top lynch candidates you should have some kind of read on them. So please share your impressions with us.
And please share what you think Ochrow's motivations were for his play.
|
|
|
|