EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XXIV - Page 39
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YourHarry
United States1152 Posts
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YourHarry
United States1152 Posts
On August 17 2012 08:09 Golbat wrote: If one player comes up town, that never makes another player scum 100%. Unless you have some inside info, you just pulled this thought out of your ass. Either way, Archrun is on my radar now because townies should never be thinking like that. My vote stands on thrawn, but Archrun is gonna have some 'splaining to do. He seems to be sheeping my read on Archrun. He ends up voting for Archrun, but scum Golbat could be setting up for Archrun lynch the following day based on my read. If Archrun flips town - he could simply blame me for it. I see scum motivations to prepare lynches in Thrawn, then Archrun, then me. On August 18 2012 15:32 Golbat wrote: I agree i'm lurking, but I feel that I have at least contributed well for my sparse filter. I made my case on thrawn, and cast my vote. When I see something worth discussing I mention it. I may not be living in the thread as hard as you, harry or thrawn, but at least I've contributed. What do you suggest I do to be less "lurky"? Make a shit case on someone in a misguided attempt to look active? Last game it got me lynched and cost town a vigi shot. I'll go over the thread again and see if anything catches my eye, but I don't really see a case I can make that hasn't already been made ATM. At the very least i'll prod some people in my next couple posts. This is clearly an excuse and false. There are plenty of things to discuss at the moment, and continues to lurk today. He did not make a single night post after Thrawn flipped town. And as it has been pointed out, he places his vote on Thrawn early in the day, then decides to lurk throughout. Day 2's lynch was going to be clearly me or Thrawn, so I can interpret Golbat's being absent as scum not caring between Thrawn or my lynch. On August 18 2012 16:57 Golbat wrote: I'd like to point out that if thrawn does not flip red, that does not make yourharry equally not red. Due to plurality lynch, my vote can stay where it is without fear of a no-lynch, but I will shed no tears if the rest of the town thinks that harry is scummier. A scum kill is a scum kill after all. The bolded part, at first, read somewhat town to me. Scum Golbat would have known that Thrawn would flip blue, so he is OK with giving me the town read following his mislynch. But maybe it would have been too inconsistent for Golbat to continue attacking me despite Thrawn flipping scum, especially since he initially sheeped the case that was based on Thrawn/Harry/Obvious association scum tells. On August 19 2012 07:30 Golbat wrote: You could probably assume that I didn't pay close attention to the first 24hours of the game. Because I didn't. I had forgotten I even signed up until like halfway through Day1. Why are YOU trying to make it sound like I have no clue what's going on at all? I know exactly what to make of that. I am not sure what he is trying to say here. "I know exactly what to make of that." Golbat, what do you mean by this? One thing I noticed is that while he sheep GK and Darth's case on me and Thrawn being scum, he never really mentions Obvious. These cases clearly outlines evidence for Thrawn/me/Ochrow being scums together by association and defending each other, he simply ignores Obvious. If there was one person beside me and Thrawn that had a chance of getting lynched, it was Obvious. It is suspicious to me what reasons town Golbat had to selectively not suspect Obvious. Upon re-examination of Golbat's filter, while I don't see clear scum slips, I find scum motivations in many of his actions. In particular, what stands out is Golbat conveniently leaving out Obvious from his suspicion list without apparent reason, even though he said I was suspicious for defending Thrawn (who Golbat strongly believed to be scum). While I am not quite sure about my read at this point, he does generally seem scummy. I would like Golbat to respond to these points above. And to pressure him: ##Vote Golbat | ||
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ObviousOne
United States3704 Posts
First thing I have to say is that I was roleblocked last night. That makes two of us who were roleblocked tonight between myself and DP. I'm definitely in agreement on a Golbat lynch at this point. We'll start with this general contradiction of himself, or more accurately him not matching the portrait of townie traits he is painting: On August 17 2012 08:21 Golbat wrote: Here's my case on Thrawn, I apologize for the lateness and lurkiness so far, I have been not really paying attention to this game so far because I'm right in the middle of prepping for college and spending time with family and friends I won't be seeing for a while, but I'll try to give this game everything I have when I can. On August 18 2012 17:48 Golbat wrote: I also really hope that some more of the lurkers start posting. Z-Boson, Ochrow, Jhuyt have yet to post today to my knowledge. On August 18 2012 17:54 Golbat wrote: This is followed up by an absurdly long period of time without any contribution in the past couple of days and his last (very ironic) post:EBWOP: Only Ochrow hasn't posted today. My apologies. Z-Boson posted right after the flip, so that just barely counts. Solar and Jhyut have posted. On August 19 2012 07:30 Golbat wrote: You could probably assume that I didn't pay close attention to the first 24hours of the game. Because I didn't. I had forgotten I even signed up until like halfway through Day1. Why are YOU trying to make it sound like I have no clue what's going on at all? I know exactly what to make of that. Further evidence he is barely paying attention to the thread even when he is here: On August 18 2012 10:36 Golbat wrote: Shit, I totally meant harry. I don't even know why I typed shady. Quite possibly his most difficult-to-read response to something in the thread that just about begs you to not try to read it more than once because of how he embedded his commentary. On August 18 2012 16:48 Golbat wrote: The bold is my response, the bold/underline is yourharry's words. And finally, there was no response to my poke last time so I'll just quote it here to add to the case against him: On August 20 2012 14:08 Obvious.660 wrote: Never did get that night post from him...Thoughts on Golbat, to pass some time here. Stream of consciousness as I read through his filter. Regarding his posting bevavior: having been in the same game (XXII) as Golbat that he has referenced where he was lynched D1 as a power role, I can't help but notice that his posting has gone (relatively) from hero to zero. I realize that this is, in part, a tactic through which he is engaging in some self-preservation behavior which isn't totally off the wall crazy. I did similar in my first game and ended up saying a bunch of crap that got me lynched. I think the town needs the old Golbat right now though. Compare this to YourHarry whose posting habits have carried on from game to game. It just seems like you went from one extreme to the other and it honestly doesn't suit us in terms of getting a better read on you, please try to get into the fray today. If you were posting like you did in XXII I would have seen you for town (saying whatever comes to your mind) and it can't really hurt at this stage of the game to pick it up. Even YourHarry has somehow survived this long with his antics, but that's how I know YH. It would do a lot, at least for me, to see you as town if you would be a bit more aggressive and active. Golbat, you've been on Thrawn's case the entire game. Your first case post against him: + Show Spoiler [golbat analysis pt1] + On August 17 2012 08:21 Golbat wrote: Here's my case on Thrawn, I apologize for the lateness and lurkiness so far, I have been not really paying attention to this game so far because I'm right in the middle of prepping for college and spending time with family and friends I won't be seeing for a while, but I'll try to give this game everything I have when I can. At first, he really plays up how much of a newbie he is, and how he doesn't know anything about playing. He says that he's planning on reading several of the mafia guides in the pregame. But his questions are so simply answered by READING ANY MAFIA GUIDE and or the OP of this thread that it is obvious he did not bother to do any of the reading he claimed. This to me is a clear indicator of someone who wants a simple explanation for their bad play. "Oh sorry i'm just new". I used the new player excuse in XXII and it got me lynched. I'm sure if he had done the reading he would have read "don't just claim newbie lol u will die". That's just one of the things he does that I find to be scummy. Not to rehash other's discussion on this, but he has been sheeping and avoiding making his own reads the entire game as well. from to Which is the beginning of a really poor case on Archrun based on that he is lurking and provided the least amount of content. And that's pretty much his case. He spends the remainder of the time up until now either asking for other peoples reads or talking about archrun, until joining the shady wagon. He mentions several times how his vote was "not an OMGUS" and then he says this. He's begging people to post something so he can sheep it. It's so far beyond just poor play that I can't really believe he isn't scum. He talks about scumhunting and how everyone else should do it, without ever doing it himself. If that isn't scummy, I don't know what is. I particularly like this last part here. It's like you never even went back and revisited the idea after his Vig claim. Even if you didn't trust his Vig claim 100%, doesn't it make sense that he would want to know who other people thought would make for good vig kill targets? It may not have been the best way to go about getting that information, but in the context of his claim it makes sense to come back to it. Alas, Thrawn's claim didn't resonate with you, and I'm somewhat surprised by that given your history in XXII where you too were a Vig and without a clear target. Of course Thrawn did a better job staying alive to execute it, but you were ironically putting him in a similar situation. The over-aggressive Shady Sands was a more overwhelming factor for D1 here, so it's not completely in Thrawn's hands that he made it through the day. In my eyes this is significant evidence that you may not be thinking like us. You also seem fairly hell-bent on getting YH voted off the island next, so I'm very interested in reading a solid, cohesive case from you on him. Let's say, during the night phase? Summary: My read is that Golbat is scum, intentionally lurking and posting in a manner that deflects any real attention from being on him when there are more active scummy-looking players in the game. The problem with this strategy is that now that we're at a point where lurkers seem to be the best option, he isn't giving us much else to go off of other than that he's still avoiding attention and that is precisely the kind of behavior that will get people in trouble at this stage of the game. ##VOTE: Golbat | ||
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YourHarry
United States1152 Posts
Currently we are on Day 3. We have 5 town players and 3 scum players. There has been only one blue roles. I believe there are more blue roles, e.g. detective, medic, roleblocker, or jailer. Maybe even two. Scums will probably go after detective/medic type blue roles, rather than mason buddies. Mason buddies don't have special powers at night, but they are confirmed town. Their claiming would be super helpful for town to narrow the pool to choose the scum from. But this information at this point in time will not be that useful for scums, since scums want to go after other power roles. True, this will also allow the scums to narrow the pool to choose other power roles from - but I believe at this point, it is a risk we need to take. Possible issue: how do we know to believe the mason brother claim? I guess we need to do the analysis. It really depends on which two players claim masons. I will examine the past days' actions of the two players who claim mason brothers to see if they are consistent with their alignments. But getting this over with will help my scum hunting ability, as I am having creative thoughts again... | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
If masons were to claim, you're right. They would be two people that scum wouldn't hit. But if there's even one blue still, how exactly do you think that changes the odds of scum hitting a blue? I find everything about your obsession with pushing a role-claim to be scum-motivated. How, exactly do you expect it will be helpful when all the scum are obviously going to lie about their roles? It just gives scum more information to use in their night kills. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
And lo and behold, YourHarry is spending more time lobbying for role-claims right now than he is for scum reads... Case on YourHarry incoming soon. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10854 Posts
To be honest I am feeling pretty demoralised about this entire situation. This game is incredibly difficult with the amount of lurking/ inactivity that has gone on. Not to mention losing 5 townies in the first 2 cycles. I am not sure if lurkers are even the right place to look at this point. I am going to sound out my thoughts on the page and be transparent as possible. At this point denying information to the mafia is less important than revealing Information to the last 5 townies. I know you guys are reading this I just wish I knew who you were. I have a strong town read on Goodkarma, but even with him/her I am not sure. I can see GK being scum. and if so I both applaud you and say WTF?!?! to the rest of town for being so shit. Z-boson has appeared town like and active but has just sheeped cases and not been proactive in pushing them. Pretty much a neutral read. Your Harry has been mental all game. Impossible to make out his motivations he is bad town (which is his meta) but this allows him to hide beneath this if he actually was scum. I read through XXI and I thought he was scum in that game. I was wrong, but this at least gives me something to think on. Everyone was pushing the Obvious/ Your Harry/ Thrawn train. Too easy. Something was wrong. I had a lingering doubt in the back of my mind but I did not argue against the Thrawn lynch at all because he was so scummy in my eyes. At this point I have no clear reads and anyone could be scum which doesn't help at all. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Sometimes the most obvious scum is the hardest to spot. YourHarry has a "meta" for sporadic and unpredictable play. But however strange, or different, or unpredictable his play is, if you were to look at the motivation behind his play, you can determine his alignment. With YourHarry, actions speak louder than words: -First, YourHarry is fond of withholding information from us. YourHarry starts the game by making a weak WIFOM case on me, claiming if I'm not a mason I'm scum. He withholds his read on me for a long time until pressured to provide it, and while here maybe you could argue he had some justification, this is a recurring theme. Over and over again he's done this. With this "mason case," with vote swapping history, with providing reads on certain people (most recently, Golbat). This behavior is clearly anti-town. Obviously withholding information would be advantageous for scum as it could make it harder for others to get a good read on him. Could a townie also do this? Maybe, but this is just the tip of the iceberg. -YourHarry is a fan of last-minute vote swapping. He has now twice last minute switched his vote to secure the mislynch of the top candidate. This behavior simply can't be ignored anymore. There is clear scum motivation here. -The use of WIFOM first, actual use of reasoning when pressured later. He already did that today with Golbat. He started today with soft defending him, and then decides he will actually "read his filter." I'll say that again: only after defending Golbat with WIFOM does he decide it's a good idea to read his filter. Then, finally, he decides to actually present a case which is in fact against Golbat. In other words, he's demonstrated a lack of interest in actually contributing meaningfully to scumhunting. -On top of this, today he has focused a large degree of effort on getting people to role claim. If my theory on scum's motive for the night kills is to be believed, YourHarry is trying to draw important town roles out of hiding as easy scum targets. There's loads of scum motivation to be seen behind YourHarry's actions, and there are several cases that have already been made against him. Yet somehow he seems to have avoided getting lynched. My biggest issue with lynching him, and why he hasn't been higher on my "scum reads," has been that his play is consistently bad, and it would be easy to mislynch a town YourHarry. But if you look at his actions, they fit a scum agenda. And finally there's the final vote count for day 2. I currently believe the Thrawn mislynch had heavy scum support. One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support. If you look at the votes, and see where those who have established themselves as town have voted, I'm sure you'll agree the YourHarry lynch had some reputable town support behind it. And all of the current scum suspects are on the Thrawn mislynch.: Directly from the official end of day 2 post (minus the blue text): thrawn2112, as VisceraEyes, vigilante, was lynched! [spoiler=Final Vote Count] Final Vote Count: Thrawn2112 (5): Obvious.660 (1): goodkarma, YourHarry (3): DarthPunk, Jhuyt, Stutters695 goodkarma (0): Jhuyt (1): thrawn2112, YourHarry, right now you're my top scum read. ##Unvote ##Vote: YourHarry I encourage everyone to put together their reads, as there's still time for you to express your viewpoints before we consolidate our vote in the last 24 hours of the day. And obviously supporting or dissenting case points towards this case would be much appreciated. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10854 Posts
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DarthPunk
Australia10854 Posts
Golbat did not post during the night cycle. and his last post was 2 days ago. will golbat be modkilled or replaced? | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36160 Posts
On August 21 2012 22:41 DarthPunk wrote: I think this may have got lost in the mess. Golbat did not post during the night cycle. and his last post was 2 days ago. will golbat be modkilled or replaced? No. He will be modkilled at the end of day 3 if he has not posted/voted. No more replacements at this stage. | ||
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DarthPunk
Australia10854 Posts
On August 21 2012 22:45 marvellosity wrote: No. He will be modkilled at the end of day 3 if he has not posted/voted. No more replacements at this stage. OK, thanks. | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
Well that was quick. Let me see if I understand. Now, in day 3, in a MYLO situation, you propose to. On August 21 2012 09:16 goodkarma wrote: Okay then. We need to be active today, and I'm wasting no time in getting started: @Golbat: You have a lot of explaining to do for your lurking, so please start there. Also, if you would kindly explain this quote: I've already explained what I felt was scummy about this, but in case you need a reminder: You seem more interested in staying alive right now than in actually scumhunting. "Not posting uselessly" is not an excuse for not posting at all. Even one one-line post explaining your absence would have been useful at this point, and you wouldn't even contribute that. You argue to not be lurking intentionally, but I would argue that yes, lurking for 48 hours is rather intentional. There's no way that you haven't thought up anything worthwhile in that time unless if between then and now you have forgotten altogether about this thread. And why would you do that if you want to "make a big contribution" that leads to the lynch of a scum? One more question: Why did you tunnel Thrawn so hard? ##Vote: Golbat Wait a minute. This is do or die for the town. You plan to consolidate your vote on someone who barely has any information on him and has been a hardcore lurker since day one? Because he tunneled thrawn, as if you didn't? Oh wait, that's right, you had a very sudden change of heart. But then, you go on and say that: (...)And finally there's the final vote count for day 2. I currently believe the Thrawn mislynch had heavy scum support. One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support. If you look at the votes, and see where those who have established themselves as town have voted, I'm sure you'll agree the YourHarry lynch had some reputable town support behind it. And all of the current scum suspects are on the Thrawn mislynch.: Well that's a very convenient argument, to go along with your name not being on that list. Drop in the bomb, wait for people to sheep you, then escape, no compromises. It's also ironic you didn't think of it before, when everybody wanted Shady Sands dead, who was the top poster at the moment. I'll go ahead and post the day one votes. ShadySands (5): SolarSail, thrawn2112, SolarSail, mkfuba07, Jhuyt, YourHarry, YourHarry SolarSail (0): YourHarry thrawn2112 (4): YourHarry ShadySands, Archrun, DarthPunk, Golbat goodkarma (0): YourHarry Jhuyt (2): goodkarma, Z-Boson Archrun (2): Ochrow, Stutters695. Ochrow, YourHarry Same argument you used. Look at that, everyone on ShadySands list must be quite the suspects of being scum. Because, "One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support." Except that he wasn't scum was he? This is because this argument is very weak. It only becomes suspicious when one target has a LOT of scumminess on him and a LOT of posts against him while the other looks so innocent and barely has anything substatial on him. This is not the case, because thrawn had a huge wall of text against him, not only the one you posted, but also the one that I did as well. DP also thought he was scum, and I will agree that the case against thrawn was fairly powerful. DAY ONE should have been the time we should have lynched lurkers. DAY TWO, maybe. Not day 3, with a do or die scenario, against someone who, as Obvious pointed out, is clearly not giving a rat's ass about this game. This day will be the target with the greatest case against him. I really don't like how quick it was for you to vote on golbat, and how quick some people seemed to sheep you. Regarding YourHarry, you went from him possibly being your third suspect to him being your main suspect with this post: On August 21 2012 17:59 goodkarma wrote: Regarding YourHarry: Sometimes the most obvious scum is the hardest to spot. YourHarry has a "meta" for sporadic and unpredictable play. But however strange, or different, or unpredictable his play is, if you were to look at the motivation behind his play, you can determine his alignment. With YourHarry, actions speak louder than words: -First, YourHarry is fond of withholding information from us. YourHarry starts the game by making a weak WIFOM case on me, claiming if I'm not a mason I'm scum. He withholds his read on me for a long time until pressured to provide it, and while here maybe you could argue he had some justification, this is a recurring theme. Over and over again he's done this. With this "mason case," with vote swapping history, with providing reads on certain people (most recently, Golbat). This behavior is clearly anti-town. Obviously withholding information would be advantageous for scum as it could make it harder for others to get a good read on him. Could a townie also do this? Maybe, but this is just the tip of the iceberg. -YourHarry is a fan of last-minute vote swapping. He has now twice last minute switched his vote to secure the mislynch of the top candidate. This behavior simply can't be ignored anymore. There is clear scum motivation here. -The use of WIFOM first, actual use of reasoning when pressured later. He already did that today with Golbat. He started today with soft defending him, and then decides he will actually "read his filter." I'll say that again: only after defending Golbat with WIFOM does he decide it's a good idea to read his filter. Then, finally, he decides to actually present a case which is in fact against Golbat. In other words, he's demonstrated a lack of interest in actually contributing meaningfully to scumhunting. -On top of this, today he has focused a large degree of effort on getting people to role claim. If my theory on scum's motive for the night kills is to be believed, YourHarry is trying to draw important town roles out of hiding as easy scum targets. There's loads of scum motivation to be seen behind YourHarry's actions, and there are several cases that have already been made against him. Yet somehow he seems to have avoided getting lynched. My biggest issue with lynching him, and why he hasn't been higher on my "scum reads," has been that his play is consistently bad, and it would be easy to mislynch a town YourHarry. But if you look at his actions, they fit a scum agenda. And finally there's the final vote count for day 2. I currently believe the Thrawn mislynch had heavy scum support. One reason scum would have for getting behind a candidate would be if one of their own also had strong support. If you look at the votes, and see where those who have established themselves as town have voted, I'm sure you'll agree the YourHarry lynch had some reputable town support behind it. And all of the current scum suspects are on the Thrawn mislynch.: Directly from the official end of day 2 post (minus the blue text): thrawn2112, as VisceraEyes, vigilante, was lynched! [spoiler=Final Vote Count] Final Vote Count: Thrawn2112 (5): Obvious.660 (1): goodkarma, YourHarry (3): DarthPunk, Jhuyt, Stutters695 goodkarma (0): Jhuyt (1): thrawn2112, YourHarry, right now you're my top scum read. ##Unvote ##Vote: YourHarry I encourage everyone to put together their reads, as there's still time for you to express your viewpoints before we consolidate our vote in the last 24 hours of the day. And obviously supporting or dissenting case points towards this case would be much appreciated. Your arguments are nothing new, it's what has been stated on YourHarry since the beggining of time. The only thing new that you add is that he is suspiciously wanting everyone to roleclaim. But why do you focus on him, and blatantly ignore DarthPunk's same remark: On August 21 2012 13:49 DarthPunk wrote: Sorry I am kind of busy and am not following the thread right now. but I agree with a mass claim. we are at the stage of the game where we need as much info as possible because we cannot afford a mistake. I feel really out of my depth here, scum are either afk winning or playing really well. The same guy in which you solemnly confided your trust in your "will": (...)I have played with DarthPunk before, and I’ve seen his scum play. He has been 10 times more proactive than he was in that game about sharing scum reads and I am convinced he is legitimately searching for scum this time around. Add to that that he’s come independently to similar reads as myself, and I feel he is my strongest town read right now. So all of you get behind him as your leader and consolidate your vote under him. There is a small (note: slim) chance that he’s scum, but you’re going to have to live with that. To have a chance of winning town needs to consolidate its vote and this is the best way to do this. Come the next night, I leave it to Darthpunk to leave his successor in a will similar to this one should he also get NK’ed. Also, you say these incredibly serious accusations: (...)There's loads of scum motivation to be seen behind YourHarry's actions, and there are several cases that have already been made against him. Yet somehow he seems to have avoided getting lynched. My biggest issue with lynching him, and why he hasn't been higher on my "scum reads," has been that his play is consistently bad, and it would be easy to mislynch a town YourHarry. But if you look at his actions, they fit a scum agenda. And you don't bother explaining what you mean. You just sheep around with the main case that has already been made, add something meaningless (if you want to give it meaning, please go ahead and attack DarthPunk as well), then hint at the most serious accusations you can possibly make and don't go ahead and explain what you mean. I agree wholeheartedly that YourHarry is scum, you can go ahead and check that in my filter , but the way you write this and the arguments you use make me feel very suspicious that you may be scum as well. Now I see that the only reason I had lifted my suspicions of you were mainly WIFOM, but your latest actions have definitely raised my eyebrows. Right now is the easiest time for a scum to slip, because any small mistake now will not slip by so easily. One more thing, you say that the night kills were not discussed in detail. Read my filter, if you will. Actually this night's night kills is what is giving me additional ammo on YH. That soon to come. ##FoS goodkarma | ||
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
Wait, what??? On August 21 2012 17:42 DarthPunk wrote: Golbat did not post during the night cycle. and his last post was 2 days ago. will golbat be modkilled or replaced? To be honest I am feeling pretty demoralised about this entire situation. This game is incredibly difficult with the amount of lurking/ inactivity that has gone on. Not to mention losing 5 townies in the first 2 cycles. I am not sure if lurkers are even the right place to look at this point. I am going to sound out my thoughts on the page and be transparent as possible. At this point denying information to the mafia is less important than revealing Information to the last 5 townies. I know you guys are reading this I just wish I knew who you were. I have a strong town read on Goodkarma, but even with him/her I am not sure. I can see GK being scum. and if so I both applaud you and say WTF?!?! to the rest of town for being so shit. Z-boson has appeared town like and active but has just sheeped cases and not been proactive in pushing them. Pretty much a neutral read. Your Harry has been mental all game. Impossible to make out his motivations he is bad town (which is his meta) but this allows him to hide beneath this if he actually was scum. I read through XXI and I thought he was scum in that game. I was wrong, but this at least gives me something to think on. Everyone was pushing the Obvious/ Your Harry/ Thrawn train. Too easy. Something was wrong. I had a lingering doubt in the back of my mind but I did not argue against the Thrawn lynch at all because he was so scummy in my eyes. At this point I have no clear reads and anyone could be scum which doesn't help at all. Like you said yourself, please read through the filters. After my heavy attack on thrawn, actually being the first one to put up a formal and well explained case against him (with the archrun bit), and, as far as I recall, doing the same with YourHarry? Explaining while ShadySands shouldn't be regarded with THAT much suspicion and why Jhuyt should have deserved the day one lynch? After sticking with thrawn after you and goodkarma pointed your pitchforks at different directions? After I continued my case against YH even after you, for some reason, ignored all the "scumslips" and "hinting at external information" against YH once thrawn was innocent? And ALL of this after me taking hours reading everything and trying to make my posts as reasonable as possible, giving a detailed explanation regarding all of my decisions? You will say that I am sheeping? That's insulting. Please do like you said you would and read everyone's filters. I will do the same on the remaining people I have not yet attacked. Guys, we have to read and reread and read yet again EVERYTHING. The more we read, the less we have to guess and the better we can communicate with each other to find these scums That goes to everybody else, because right now it's only half the people discussing the most important read we have to make. This will basically guarantee our loss if there is not more contribution... | ||
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Stutters695
2610 Posts
On August 21 2012 17:59 goodkarma wrote: I encourage everyone to put together their reads, as there's still time for you to express your viewpoints before we consolidate our vote in the last 24 hours of the day. And obviously supporting or dissenting case points towards this case would be much appreciated. I notice YH completely ignored my case against him from D2 (Previous case in spoiler). I felt he was suspicious day 1, our best lynch day 2 and that hasn't changed. + Show Spoiler + YourHarry is still my best vote. This is going to be a long case but I'm abridging the non major parts due to wanting to give you guys time to read it. Ask and I'll go into even more detail on parts i skimmed. Looking at his filter again his voting is just ridiculous. He starts in the thread by linking his filters (post 1) and addressing his different playstyles. Although its pretty obvious which meta he "chose" this game it got me thinking about his motives. Town Harry has no reason to hide how he'll be playing while Scum Harry has just left himself an out in case someone like Shady were to bring up discrepencies in his Meta later. The next thing that stood out to me was his early vote switching. Please note that these posts were sequential in his filter and his 3rd and 4th total since the start of the game. The bolded parts of this quote and the next one are my emphasis on what he omitted from the original posts. Note how the entirety of his reason for voting Thrawn is WIFOM but has only quote from Thrawn as evidence. That quote is about Shady challenging Solar so early. . Note how he leaves the context of the quote out of his "case" because if you consider what Shady was tunneling Solar so hard about originally it was a pretty weak reason (He said Solar soft accused me of playing safe because I was scum during my first post (also the first of the game).) His next post is just saying "OK" before switching to Solar. Again his quote was taken out of context. In his first 4 posts he's done nothing at all pro-town. He's tried to mislead us twice with his quotes without ever even pressuring the people he's voted for. This also provides another motive from a scum perspective of devaluing his votes. By switching around all day when it came time to actually vote for the lynch no one even questioned why Harry had placed six votes throughout the day while only building a couple of real cases which were all very weak. His only other "contributions" for the next two hours are: spamming the thread with one liners and no real analysis accusing Mkfuba (confirmed town) of opportunistically jumping onto the Solar badnwagon while twitsting a fairly townie quote into a scum play. Relevant quotes are in spoilers. + Show Spoiler + On August 15 2012 13:28 YourHarry wrote: Actually I find mkfuba suspicious. Although I think Solar did act somewhat scummy (and I voted him at one point), I think Solar is town. There were four people who thought Solar was scum: Shady, YourHarry, thrawn, and mkfuba. After three people expressed suspicion on Solar, Mkfuba opportunistically but non-committingly fuels Solar bandwagon: On August 16 2012 01:38 YourHarry wrote: Shady, regarding your accusation of me, the only thing that makes me scummy is this: Again, I was indeed guilty of this. But this was a result of my strong suspicion that Solar was town. I did realize I was taking things out of context when Mkfuba pointed this out. You accuse me of posting one liners. I often post one liners and not much information is available in the beginning of the day, so few sentences would suffice in explaining reads. One liners can have content. And agreeing with you so readily is not a scummy behavior. Me if anything as scum may even be reluctant to agree with people readily, unless they have a strong case, in fear that people may point things out. @Goodkarma. You did not find Solar scummy based on previous cases at all? What makes you so confident about town going in the wrong direction in accusing Solar. It is almost as if you know his alignment? Moving on to the next RL day (Aug 16 1AM TL time) his first post is just defending his ridiculous claim that Solarsail is town amidst his spam by saying that he caught a hint that GK and Solar were masons but decided against it when they accused him. The next 6 or 7 posts are all focused on his "case" on Goodkarma. His case entirely revolves around the fact that the breadcrumb he caught that no one else did confirms that GK must either be scum or him and Solar are masons. Throughout the day he tunnels GK while defending himself and adding no additional analysis or quesitoning. I'll have to continue this in about an hour but just a recap of through page 2 of his filter. He's voteswitched without explinations numerous times, misquoted people intentionally while voting against them. I posted earlier about his obsession with the SK I'd encourage everyone to read and I'd ask people to check out his filter yourselves and see the drastic inconsistencies. I realize this is inconvenient but I'll be back in about an hour. Picking up where I left off: YH thinks GK and Solar are masons from a breadcrumb only he caught. Then when both Solar and GK accuse him for this really weak accusation he claims GK must be scum since masons aren't a possibility. His reasoning is because GK thought Solar was bad town and not scum GK must know Solar's alignment (This is the first real scumhunting YH has done at all). The rest of his post is just WIFOM and accusing GK based on fluff in GK's posts while ignoring the main points behind the posts. This is yet another example of YH trying to be active without contributing. I'll admit this is a weaker part of my case however when compounded with everything else it fits his style this game. Moving on he switches his vote onto Shady (vote #4 on day 1) with a reasonable justification, I just wanted to point out that he had voted again. After more filler he switches his vote to Archrun while admitting he hadn't even read everything related to it. Again he's devaluing his vote and leaving himself an out in case he needs to switch votes again. On August 17 2012 08:00 YourHarry wrote: Honestly I did not have time to read everything, but this seems alarmingly scummy to me. I had an experience in one of my earlier games where scum was basically trying to benefit from mislynch. ##Unvote ##Vote Archrun This isn't even the main thing I took out of this post though. His entire case on GK was based off of the fact GK thought Solar was bad town when everyone else thought he was scum. It's funny that he should mention that Arch could be scum based off of previous games when he neglected to mention that in the same D1 of the same game (XXI) a similar scenario happened with a townie named Tube who ended up getting cleared, then lynched D3 before flipping town when people were saying it was bad play d1. Now this could honestly be him forgetting about it or thinking it was a fluke but given his inconsistent posting this game and his convenient use of only the parts of quotes that furthered his "cases" I'm starting to see a pattern that points towards him withholding this information to further his own goals. On August 17 2012 14:11 YourHarry wrote: I have additional evidence why I think Thrawn is town, which confirm my scum read on Archrun. Minutes before the deadline the vote count was tied between Shady and Thrawn, with four votes each. Unless three scums were all already voting for ShadySands, if Thrawn is indeed scum, one of his scum partners would have tried to move his vote to ShadySands. While Shady was set to be lynched because he was the first player to receive 4 votes, it would have been still dangerous from scum's perspective because all it takes is one townie to switch his vote to Thrawn and the scum would be lynched. But this did not happen, which is consistent with Thrawn being town. Two possible scenarios that counter this argument are that: 1) Scums were simply not around to make last minute changes in this vote. This seems possible because it was pretty close to the deadline when I changed my vote from Shady to Archrun and Golbat placed his vote on Thrawn. This is not completely out of the question, but A) considering that scums still had one hour window to make the move and B) that scum Thrawn means that his scum partners would have been very well aware that Thrawn was a strong lynch candidate (based on discussion that happened hours prior to the deadline), I suspect that Tharwn's scum teammates would have been watching things closely. 2) Thrawn's scum partners were too hesitant to switch their votes, in fear that it would make them suspicious. This is possible, but maybe it would not have been too difficult to fabricate some wishy-washy with reasons for change in opinion. And I do realize that by my own analysis, my last minute switch in voting from Archrun to Shady could make me suspicious... But at this point, my scum reads were Archrun > Shady > Thrawn. So when it looked like Archrun lynch seemed impossible, I wanted to make sure Archrun lynch over Thrawn lynch happens. But in summary, until I changed my vote from Archrun to Shady, which happened like 2 minutes before the deadline, the scums had some window of opportunity to switch their votes to Shady (unless all three were already voting for Shady) in order to provide a some protection against last minutes switch of votes to their scum partner Thrawn. This is not a fool-proof evidence, as there are possible exceptions listed above 1) and 2) but I think this should render additional evidence that Thrawn is town (and thus both Thrawn and Shady are town) which would confirm my suspicion that Archrun is attempting to benefit from mislynching two townies. This is a great post too. "I'm sure Archrun is scum and Thrawn is town because if not someone would have vote switched onto Sandy to 100% save Thrawn." He then posts some elaborate WIFOM to explain his claim. Possible yes but YH even pointed out the flaws with that plan (again leaving himself an option for when the flip happens and he's wrong.) YH then catches another nonexistant role-claim from Thrawn. After tunneling Thrawn for a bit he posts about Golbat and Thrawn as a scumteam. On August 18 2012 16:12 YourHarry wrote: @Darth While it is true that I may have briefly mentioned my town read on Archrun on Day 1, when deciding to lynch between Archrun and Shady, at the time it was only a mild town read based on the fact that explanations given by Thrawn made logical sense to me. After Archrun's post outlining what seemed to be his scum plan of action, Thrawn was indeed almost as good as confirmed townie in my mind. And this was due to my thinking that Archrun was scum. But I don't think I ever claimed that he is a confirmed townie. I did say that he is a confirmed townie if Archrun flipped scum, which he didn't. Recent postings make me think that Thrawn and Golbat are on the same team. This post stands out: Obviously, from my perspective, this only sounds like Golbat is trying to mislynch me knowing that Thrawn will flip scum. There are other two players who suspect me of being scum with Thrawn: Darth and GK. But despite my previous suspicion of GK, their outlining of cases actually make some logical sense right now and they seem to be actually trying to scum hunt. (And I admit that I may look scummy right now for flip flopping my vote and trying to defend Thrawn). On the other hand, Golbat suddenly shows up and basically sheeps other people's cases. Only thing that seems a bit weird is that he is one of the first players to cast a vote against Thrawn, when day 2 opened, after Darth. However, this may be mafia QT planned action to encourage Golbat to bus against Thrawn - one who is likely to be suspected anyway due to Day 1 mislynch of Shady. More importantly, Thrawn suddenly suspects Golbat, because he is lurking. Even though there are other lurkers, he specifically picks out Golbat just because he recently posted. While I agree that pressuring lurkers is a good strategy, Thrawn did not have any interaction with Golbat... but all of the sudden, he singles him out. Thrawn at this point knows that his lynch is imminent, and that there is nothing he can do to avoid flipping red. This to me seems like his attempt to distance himself from his scum partner in Golbat: Taken together, I think this strongly suggests that Thrawn and Golbat are scums together. Again he posts another case that relys on what should be unknown information for the case to hold any water. This isn't scumhunting. This is posting a bunch of What Ifs to make it look like it's useful. So what happens to this case now that Thrawn has flipped Vig. It's completely worthless, just another post of YH looking active without contributing. Let me ask the town something. What does town Harry contribute with this post unless he's guessed correctly? Is it really a stretch to assume that Harry knew Thrawn would flip town so he could get out of contributing once again? Likewise with the previous post, he implied that if Thrawn is town Archrun must be scum. If he doesn't know that Thrawn is town neither of these plans make any sense. Once or twice I can overlook and just say that even trying to explain it with WIFOM is pointless but between everything I've went over so far I'd consider this more icing on the cake. Note I'm posting this now because I want to see YH's reactions before lynch time and I need to make sure you guys have time to read it. I've only been through Pg4 of his filter with this case and I'm having a hard time believing he could be town. Please, please, please don't just skim it over and think because it's long and full of quotes its good. Read it and judge for yourself. Just for emphasis today if we get it wrong we lose so be sure he's the best choice in your mind. And if you don't think he is, show why he isn't. ##Vote: YourHarry | ||
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Stutters695
2610 Posts
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Z-BosoN
Brazil2590 Posts
He has been fishing roles all game? I don't remember this, can you please find where? The only thing I can recall is him interpreting a dubious thrawn quote to say why he thinks thrawn is blue. You basically said what's been said all game. YH uses WIFOM, is inconsistent, keeps changing his mind without specifying why. This to me is very scummy, as I've made clear for quite some time. But I will one-up this argument, I think I found something that, in my opinion will give a strong case against him. Case against YourHarry I will not go over again how stupid and confusing and useless his posting is, how that looks scummy, etc. Ladies and gentlemen, the first thing YH says: On August 15 2012 11:48 YourHarry wrote: My meta: My first game, Mafia XX, where I was vanilla town My second game XXI. Again, vanilla townie. My third game. First half of the game, I am mafia goon. The game restarted and I drew vanilla townie. To summarize my meta, in the first 2.5 games, I am quick to make accusations and switch my vote players with little explanation. I decided to change my meta in game 3 where I drew vanilla townie. I played more conservative to avoid suspicion. I am not sure which meta I will choose this game  I am not sure which meta I will choose this game .I am not sure which meta I will choose this game .I am not sure which meta I will choose this game .He clearly indicated that he wants to follow a certain meta. Apparently, he has already decided which one it is. He is thriving on confusion. Look at some of his quotes from previous games: + Show Spoiler + Release, I am not Grush. I didn't particularly find lazer monkey's post scummy. This is a newbie game. He is simply providing some guidelines on what townies should avoid - since (I assume) that his previous games have been tainted by vanilla towns claiming power roles. BTW, I am not OMGUSing Jingle. I just find it difficult to understand why he finds me scummy, since I think I explained myself and answered all of his questions. When someone is focusing his accusation on a player based on reasonable evidence, that someone could be town or scum. But when someone is stubborn about his accusation on a player, even after the accused player adequately explained himself, I think that someone is likely to be scum. Maybe he is not satisfied with my answers. If so, Jingle, please tell me what you still think I am scum. Here, someone may question whether my initial vote against Hopeless also makes me scummy for above reason. But as I explained, I don't particularly find him scummy and my initial attempt to incite responses from him and others did partially succeed - mostly in the forms of accusations toward me. ##Unvote ##Vote Jingle Release: I maintain that it was not an OMGUS battle, at least from my perspective. I had valid reason, at least from what little was available at the time, to suspect Jingle. And if Jingle is scum, my quick reconciliation is not necessarily scummy. At best, it's WIFOM. One can argue that scums would be hesitant to dismiss each other's scuminess, in fear that 1) obvious buddying may make both of them suspicious, exactly how you are suspecting both of us 2) other's scum flip will incriminate them. Either way, my actions on end of day 1 to place the one of the deciding votes on Hopeless (especially when I previously expressed my opinion that I didn't think hopeless was particularly scummy, I could have easily justified my vote against someone else) and my willingness to vote against Jingle now should make me unlikely to be scum. Also, in regards to miller providing a difficulty for town victory: miller counters mafia role cop and detective is soft countered by miller. Mafia role cop is gone and detective is still alive. So, miller's value to town is at extreme minimum. Of course, if detective was nonexistant, miller would be as good as vanilla townie. The reason why medic shouldn't claim is obvious. Night2, the scum would roleblock medic and nightkill the detective. Medic role claiming does not allow us to gather any additional information on alignment of other players. However, this means that we must come up with a consensus on who we want to lynch way prior to the deadline so that medic does have a chance to roleclaim if somehow he gets picked to be lynched. The reason for power role claiming immediately if they received the positive result is also evident. This is because what we will do today would be clearly decided: lynch whoever received the positive result. This also allows medic to anonymously protect the powerrole who got the positive result. The reason for claiming in order is because we don't want two power roles to reveal their identity unless it gives us additional information. This prevents second power role role claiming just in case they targeted the same player at night. I think detective claiming first makes sense, because it is a more important role - so this allows medic to protect him at night. This is some quotes from his previous game as townie. Notice the difference? He still throws information around a bit, but notice how it is toned down and how much more reasonable he seems. One of the first things I have said in this game is that analyzing meta is weak and doesn't constitute arguments. However, YourHarry has been constantly playing the meta game, and even said so himself in the beggining of the game. He has decided he wants to be as confusing as possible, as random, as wishy-washy as he can. Another thing that I noticed is generally not done is analyzing the nk's. Oh, Jhuyt just died, but he was such a strong scum suspect. O well, WIFOM, scum wants us to think that blah blah blah. Not in YourHarry's case. The only consistent thing he's done is be confusing. I'm sure we can all agree with that. I raise now two points: 1) Why would this be the meta to go for a town YourHarry? Isn't it weird how much better his play was as townie in past games? Why would town Harry want to be as confusing as possible? 2) Jhuyt nk was confusing as hell. This entirely fits YH's profile this game. I cannot for the life of me come up with a better reason to kill JHuyt other than just try to confuse town. Since YH right now is confusion in person, this raises an uncanny coincidence. But Z-BosoN! 2) is WIFOM and analyzing meta is weak! Well, imaginary doubting friend, I don't think that this applies here. YH is strictly playing a meta game, and not ONCE did he abandon it. He's drowning in WIFOM, but I doubt that he would have considered this when deciding who a scum YH would want to kill, because up until now, all we've done is analyze the garbage he jams on his keyboard, but not the overall picture. Let's stop wasting time trying to think what a scum Harry would do, and think more about how a scum Harry would act. So there it is folks, I think this makes a lot of sense, and should give you one more powerful reason as to why YH is SCUM!. Think about it and tell me what you guys think. I think this is the best option right now, I can't think of a stronger reason to lynch someone else. ##Vote YourHarry | ||
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Stutters695
2610 Posts
I'll concede that he hasn't been fishing as bad as it felt like he has been based off of the posts themselves, but the style in which he is posting is troubling. Obviously the Thrawn "breadcrumb" and there was also one about Mason's earlier on. It's never just about finding scum with him, he is always trying to incorporate a blue role or masons or something along those lines that both give him a way to back out of whatever "read" he has and try to confirm who is what at the same time. Something just feels off about it, but thank you for bringing that up, a bit of conformation bias on my end. | ||
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Stutters695
2610 Posts
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YourHarry
United States1152 Posts
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) my post was not a personal attack but rather a call to all lurkers to contribute something.
