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@ Synystyr:
On August 07 2012 03:43 Synystyr wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2012 01:43 Hapahauli wrote:On August 07 2012 01:41 Dandel Ion wrote:On August 07 2012 01:28 Hapahauli wrote:On August 07 2012 01:21 Synystyr wrote:@Hapa Don't be so quick to vote me after one post  I was merely implying that activity is not indicative of alignment and shouldn't be taken into account in a case, yet. @Dandel My read on Golbat is that he's neutral leaning scum. Scum like to cause discord amongst the town, and there's really no need for attacks on reading comprehension without a good reason. He's just trying to stir shit up. He wants to lynch lurkers as well, which may be the start of a defense to as why he shouldn't be lynched d1. I didn't vote you yet Synystyr, just an FOS is all. But what's with the passive finger-pointing? In the first post, you mention that "I could be active scum" trying to clear myself - what's the townie motive behind that? Secondly, that reasoning on Golbat is terribad: he's trying to stir shit up and focus on lurkers (good townie behavior), and therefore he's setting up to defend himself and therefore he's scum?! Yeah ok buddy. Well you could be scum. I don't think it's bad to point out that, just because something looks towny, it can't be scum-motivated too. He did not actually attack you, or even imply to direct his post towards you. It seemed to me like he was talking more in general. Yet you're getting pretty defensive, pretty fast. Synystyr, now that you're here, post some more plox. I agree, from your perspective I could be mafia. However, I'm calling attention as to how Synyster decides to cast suspicion. His post literally says nothing, and it reads as a passive fingerpoint to me. As for my "defensiveness," I don't make any effort to defend myself - I'm simply pointing out scummy behavior, and this one just so happens to involve my name. On the contrary, I feel quite safe going with my instinct that you are a townie. You ask all the right questions and cast good suspicion over everyone. I really do mean it when I say I'm just being cautious. You never know what could happen.
I'm surprised that you feel so strongly that I'm town this early in the game. Instinct alone isn't grounds to trust someone on Day 1, and how can you know I'm casting "good suspicion" and asking the "right questions" when no one has flipped? Please explain your read on me more.
You also have not answered my questions in this post:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=10#187
Why do you find Golbat suspicious? Please provide more evidence than "he hasn't been too productive" - no one in the game has been productive yet. What in particular about his posts do you find not productive?
@ Promethelax:
On August 07 2012 02:07 Promethelax wrote:
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Hapa: thanks for getting the discussion going. How do you feel about Golbat?
Golbat has a slight townie read to me at the moment, based on his interaction with Lvdr. I feel that scum Golbat would have taken the opportunity to grill Lvdr based on his misinformation more instead of forgiving his behavior as poor reading. It's especially telling that Golbat takes this stance despite two other players (me an Dandel Ion) pointing suspicion at Lvdr. (This of course assumes Lvdr is town-alligned, but it's a waste of all our time for me to dream up a hypothetical Golbat/Lvdr scumteam scenarios with such little information, and I have no reason to believe so at this point in the game).
Of course this can change based on future posting, but that's my view based on very limited information.
@ Lvdr:
On August 07 2012 02:37 Lvdr wrote:
Prome- What do you think of hapa? Seems solidly town, but a gf play could be devastating, esp given that he has been an active and successful scum before.
On August 07 2012 02:54 Lvdr wrote:
gf is godfather - therefore undetectable. Strat would be: elected godfather, become important and active townie, lead town around on a merry chase.
First off, it's great that you're considering all possibilities, and I welcome any and all questions about my behavior and posting. That being said, this type of speculation (i.e - I could be the godfather and it could be deadly for town) is pretty worthless early in the game, especially if there's no evidence behind it. Random speculative scenarios usually lead to bad/distracting discussion.
Note: Godfather's aren't "elected," they are a role chosen pre-game by the hosts. Perhaps you made a typo, but I wanted to clear this up in case.
Regarding suspicions on YourHarry - With no offense to YourHarry, his townie play in XXI was pretty incoherent, but so far, he's willing to stick his neck out and draw attention to himself. I doubt mafia would so willingly draw attention to themselves so early in the game, and I have a townie read on YourHarry for now.
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Is there anyone else that stands out to you at the moment Lvdr? You were interested in Golbat earlier - do you still have suspicions about him?
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What do you mean by "targeted"?
As for Doc/DT/BlueRole stuff, most of that discussion happens during the night cycle, since actions don't have to be sent in until then.
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On August 07 2012 06:29 Lvdr wrote:
Sounds reasonable. I mean that doc heals X, DT checks Y, etc.
Who is on your suspicious list?
I will say that talking about blue-role actions early in the game is considered semi-taboo (unless you have a very good reason to do so of course) - mafia can use blue discussion as clues to kill blue roles during the night, so most people stray away from such discussion.
As for my suspicion list, Synystyr is #1 of course. I generally don't like to focus on more than one person at a time, as it can be distracting for the town with multiple suspicions flying around. In addition, I find it inexcusable that Sideni and TolEranceNA have still not posted almost 24 hours into the game.
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@Lvdr: If they don't post within the day cycle, they'll be modkilled. You must make 1 post and vote per cycle in order to not be modkilled.
@ Golbat: Awesome, I look forward to your cases
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@ Synystyr
On August 07 2012 08:41 Synystyr wrote:
Let me assure you guys that I am indeed town! I apologize for the number of "fluff" posts that you guys say I am making. There is simply not much to go off this early in the game. I would move for a lurker policy lynch at this point in the game over any other active players unless they make me suspicious.
Golbat says he has some cases to post, so I'd like to hear what he has to say.
Unfortunately, I need more than your assurances to establish your innocence. Can you please answer the questions I posed to you in my last post addressed to you? It feels like you're dodging them repeatedly:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=11#211
@ Dandel Ion:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=201&topic_id=355874
In your post here, you mention that you looked through Harry's meta to get a read on him, and didn't know what to think of him. Do you still believe Harry is scum despite his meta in past games?
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On August 07 2012 08:39 YourHarry wrote:
Lvdr's case against me - that I was too lazy to fix my quote mishap - seems logically flawed in the most extreme sense that I can't help think that he is scum. As I explained, the reason why I didn't fix the post was because the it was still readable and I didn't feel the need to create a duplicate post with identical content, especially since the post was rather long. But more importantly, Lvdr is basically saying that scums are inherently less interested in fixing their posts because they want to actively make it confusing for town. I have never seen or heard something like this happen. And I have seen many times where townies left their posts unfixed.
I usually maintain that logical flaws is not a scum tell, because townies also make mistakes. But when the mistakes are borderline unreasonable, it is difficult for me to accept that such townie making the mistake is doing it because he is being forced to make a case against someone.
YourHarry, you currently have your vote on Promethelax (and at one point on mkfuba07), yet you're accusing Lvdr of mafia motive. Do you still find Promethelax and mkfuba to be suspicious?
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@ Sideni - thanks for posting your ideas, but perhaps you can elaborate on a couple of items?
On August 07 2012 09:28 Sideni wrote:As for YourHarry, from what I've read, he's acting quite suspiciously, the most of all... I have to tell that I wouldn't know who to vote for =/ I don't feel like we're currently following the policy we instored for Day One 
Why do you find YourHarry suspicious so far? Also, how are we not following our day 1 policy?
@ Dandel Ion
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=12#238
Regarding your post about Harry's erratic play, do you really think Mafia would do that? Even if it is strange, it did generate quite a bit of discussion (as Harry intended). Furthermore, he walks into a thread and does practically everything to attract attention to himself. I highly doubt that Mafia would be so willing to put themselves in the spotlight so early in the game.
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On August 07 2012 10:02 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2012 09:36 Lvdr wrote:
Synyster apologizes for fluff... with more fluff.
YH: the whole point of being scum is to confuse the town. Being a confusing townie only makes people suspicious: as you no doubt have noticed.
iamperfection: other than YH's incompetence, who do you think is actually mafia? I want to make it clear that i still think yourharry is the best bet for flppping to scum. also to the defense that this is his town "meta" we dont really have a yourharry scum meta to go off now do we.
...but we do have several games of town YourHarry meta, and he's completely in line with that so far. I really can't see why YourHarry (as hypothetical mafia) would draw attention to himself so blatantly in the early game. Firing off votes and FOS's without reason might not be popular or good play, but I don't see scum motivation in deliberately attracting that attention upon himself.
The suspicions on YourHarry looks like a case of suspecting a controversial poster rather than a legitimately scummy one.
So iamperfection, why do you find YourHarry scummy? You certainly outlined why his play is bad, but where's the scum motivation? To add to this, you of all people should know how incoherent YourHarry's townie play is from Newbie XXI.
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On August 07 2012 10:21 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2012 10:11 YourHarry wrote:That's how I play. When I make a read, I post it. Sometimes I ask others to guess the reasons behind my vote. And sometimes, reasons behind my suspicions can seem trivial, especially in the beginning of the day. And as Hapha pointed out, I throw in different theories out there and see what people think of them and which one sticks. And they do a good job generating plenty of discussions early in the day. To be fair though, the second link referenced by "Just to jump onto somebody else right after" was actually me fixing my previous post regarding my suspicion on mkfuba. I guess that means you didn't read my original "messed" up post, because the contents were identical. And it seems that iamperfection seems to be blaming me for us losing the XXI game. I admit that I did not have a very good track record in voting or even in my reads that game. Though, I did suspect that calgar that game was town, which basically got ignored, understandably. I got some coaching though, and I think I am improving. You may disagree, but let's see how I do this game. I have a confidence in myself this game. Just trust me simple question Why was calgar town?
Please keep discussion of XXI and other games out of this thread. Your question doesn't do anything for this game.
Also, I asked you some questions about your suspicions on YourHarry - could you please answer them? Thanks!
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=13#249 (Here for reference)
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@ Sideni - I don't mind you voting early, but try to make sure you're availible near lynch-time (~20 hours from now) to change your vote if necessary.
I like your case against iamperfection, and I question the motives of his vote. He charges in when a bunch of people are FOS'ing YourHarry for very suspect reasoning (bad play as opposed to mafia motive).
FOS iamperfection
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On August 07 2012 10:32 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2012 10:24 Hapahauli wrote:On August 07 2012 10:21 iamperfection wrote:On August 07 2012 10:11 YourHarry wrote:That's how I play. When I make a read, I post it. Sometimes I ask others to guess the reasons behind my vote. And sometimes, reasons behind my suspicions can seem trivial, especially in the beginning of the day. And as Hapha pointed out, I throw in different theories out there and see what people think of them and which one sticks. And they do a good job generating plenty of discussions early in the day. To be fair though, the second link referenced by "Just to jump onto somebody else right after" was actually me fixing my previous post regarding my suspicion on mkfuba. I guess that means you didn't read my original "messed" up post, because the contents were identical. And it seems that iamperfection seems to be blaming me for us losing the XXI game. I admit that I did not have a very good track record in voting or even in my reads that game. Though, I did suspect that calgar that game was town, which basically got ignored, understandably. I got some coaching though, and I think I am improving. You may disagree, but let's see how I do this game. I have a confidence in myself this game. Just trust me simple question Why was calgar town? Please keep discussion of XXI and other games out of this thread. Your question doesn't do anything for this game. Also, I asked you some questions about your suspicions on YourHarry - could you please answer them? Thanks! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=13#249 (Here for reference) What can i say i disagree with you. If he could answer that question with logic i would be more inclined to believe that there is some logic to his madness. If he cant i think my points stand. Do i have a note here that says he is scum no but i also dont have anything from anyone else that someone else i 100 times better so i think my logic stands on getting him out of the game.
You keep mentioning "logic-this" and "logic-that," but I have yet to see any logic in your posts. How is questioning YourHarry about Calgar in XXI "logical?"
Great, you disagree with me but why? What part of his play do you see as scummy? I see you pointing out his bad play, but none of his scummy play. Tell me what "scum-Harry's" motives are for posting the way he did.
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@ Lvdr - I appreciate your enthusiasm in the scumhunt, but you currently suspect about half of the players in the game so far. Perhaps you can narrow down your reads? I'm sure some players must seem more scummy to you than others.
@ ShadySands - Love the case and it's completely in-line with my suspicions earlier in the game. While I'm highly suspicious of Synystyr, I want to see more of his posting before I cast my vote. If he continues to ignore the questions I posed to him earlier, I will vote him tomorrow.
@ Golbat - What happened to your case against the 2nd player? Given that I was already casting heavy suspicion againt Synystyr, I was expecting a bit more than that out of you after such a build up.
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On August 07 2012 11:15 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2012 10:33 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Sideni - I don't mind you voting early, but try to make sure you're availible near lynch-time (~20 hours from now) to change your vote if necessary.
I like your case against iamperfection, and I question the motives of his vote. He charges in when a bunch of people are FOS'ing YourHarry for very suspect reasoning (bad play as opposed to mafia motive).
FOS iamperfection Hapa i know your afraid of revisting that game because of your scum meta but its definitly fine to revisit it.
Woah whaaat!? I've very willingly pointed out my play in XXI several times in this thread. That's some misinformation right there.
That's also quite the fingerpoint - so you're accusing me of being mafia then?
Like i said before if he could explain how he came to that conclusion i would be more likely to believe there is a method to the madness.
I don't give two shits about his play last game - I care about his play in this game. His coherence in his last game does nothing to tell us about his play in this game. And so far, I think his play this game makes sense from a "getting everyone to talk" perspective.
Introducing cahos is a scum motive in my view. Thats what yourhrry does with his posting he introduces chaos. Do i have some other motives for lynching him yes. Do i not like how he plays yes. Do i not want yourharry by my side if god forbid i make it that far yes. You might not like that hapa but its the truth.
Also i did not charge in i called out yourharry in my very first post and he ignored it. yourharry is my case his posting in this thread just confirmed to me what i already knew. He is reckless and i want him out.
So you called out YourHarry before you post and wanted him gone before anything happened in the game?!?!? How on EARTH is that town motive?
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Oh, and as for YourHarry "introducing chaos" - well he didn't introduce too much chaos now did he? He got people talking at the expense of suspicion against himself. You can chose to read it another way if you like, but you're OMGUS'ing Harry at this point.
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On August 07 2012 11:37 Lvdr wrote:
What do you mean there are only 3 mafia? Why can't everyone be mafia!
In all seriousness, my FOS point to only 2: synyster and iamperfection
For the record, YH and golbat are likely townie reads in my opinion.
Why the sudden shift in attitude on YourHarry and Golbat? Also, of synyster and iamperfection, is there one that stands out to you as a better lynch candidate (and why)?
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@ iamperfection:
Ya know, this post isn't going to go away just because you tried to pick a fight with Lvdr:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=14#269
I still want answers for the following:
1) Are you accusing me of being mafia?
2) You called out YourHarry in your first post - why did you do this before he even posted/ was worthy of suspicion?
3) And while we're at it, what do you think of the cases against Synystyr?
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On August 07 2012 12:40 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2012 12:11 Hapahauli wrote:@ iamperfection: Ya know, this post isn't going to go away just because you tried to pick a fight with Lvdr: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=14#269I still want answers for the following: 1) Are you accusing me of being mafia? 2) You called out YourHarry in your first post - why did you do this before he even posted/ was worthy of suspicion? 3) And while we're at it, what do you think of the cases against Synystyr? 1) no. My thinking was this hypothetically harry flips town then boom someone can attack you with meta from the last game thats why i think you could be worried about that. 2) i dont like the way he plays i think ive made that quite clear. Did i have an agenda to get him out of the game yes thats the truth. You dont have to like it. its not nice. its not even fair but i think the longer yourharry is in the game he does more damage than good. You dont have to agree with that but im just stating my thinking behind why i wanted him lynched. 3)Synyster has five posts. Its hard to say he is "scum" cause there isnt much to go on. I think he might be somewhat fearful in posting. His accusations seem to focus on productivity which is wierd because he is very unproductive himself. If forced to guess i would say awful town.
#1: That doesn't make sense. If Harry flipped town (after a hypothetical lynch), how would I look bad for defending him? What does this even have to do with be being scared of my XXI meta? Is this our only reasoning for why I would be scared of my meta?
#2: Well if you're going to take such a strong stance from the beginning of the game, that's anti-town behavior. Don't be surprised that the town gets on your case if you pre-determined to lynch someone before they posted.
Hell, I've looked through your meta in XXI and I don't understand why you're so angry at Harry. It's not like you didn't get along with him in XXI, and you never got mad at him for his play in that game. Hell you even DEFENDED YourHarry in that game based on his "bad play".
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=351398¤tpage=42#829
On July 21 2012 01:18 iamperfection wrote:
i might regret this but
The one thing i dont like about it is that he tries to cast suspicion on you. In my view looking at it you are basically mod confirmed townie in my view now. The only other possibilty is their would have to be a roleblocker on the scum team. However, combined with your ability to play the role of aggresive townie and the actual circumstance of the bread crumb i highly doubt your lying and combined with probulous basically confirming that their is a role block role i think its safe to assume your town.
What i dont like about is why would the scum team continue to rally against you. It seems kind of silly to me to try and waste effort to try and cast doubt on you. Maybe im giving the scum team to much credit but in my view thier efforts are better spent else where.
So basically harrys accusation are so dumb in my view that he might be town because the scum team as whole i would think would recognize it would be a lost cause to go against you.
#3: What's your reasoning for Synyster being awful town vs. scummy? ShadySands does a pretty good job outlining why Synyster's posts are pretty scummy - what about his post do you not agree with?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=355874¤tpage=13#251
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