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@Darthpunk:
I definitely find it plausible you were unaware of Zork's incriminating post, since your vote change and his post were only 2 minutes apart. That being said, there are other explanations for this behavior... For now I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt on this point.
As for your defense of Jingle, it may not have been optimal for a scum to stick his neck out and vote for his own candidate in the way that Jingle has. However, for what it's worth, Zork did pretty much the same thing.
The case against Jingle isn't just about voting patterns, but also about his actions. I would be interested to hear your thoughts on some of the other scum reads on Jingle described by Shady, Ange, and myself. There's more to it than that he proposed his own candidate and voted for him.
@ the rest of town: The posting has been incredibly scarce here, especially from Obvious and aRyuujin. Today's discussion is valuable to determine not only today's, but tomorrow's potential lynch candidate, and to discuss end-game strategy. With town turning this around, now is definitely not the time to go afk.
I have spelled out my scum-read on JingleHell already, and nothing has changed since that post, so:
##Vote JingleHell
I have not forgotten about alan and Darthpunk. If something really scummy sticks out to me when I'm reading through their filters tonight I might change my vote (though tbh I find this very unlikely). Whatever the case, expect a post on my opinions either before I go to bed tonight or tomorrow morning.
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I have read through both Alan and Darth's filters again, and here are my general impressions:
Alan:
Nothing that Alan has said feels that scummy to me. He stuck to his read on Mordanis, however incorrect it may have been, and provided what I consider to be a reasonable case for doing so. He hasn't been afraid to give town a few pieces of advice based off his own play in the past. And he has on several occasions weighed in and provided his own perspective on the major lynch candidates of the day. His play feels generally pro-town to me, but I will also say this: he has done a good job of not really standing out with controversial arguements at any point throughout the game. I won't rule out the possibility that he's a scum that's really good at keeping his head low.
Darthpunk:
I originally commented on how his tunneling of Mordanis felt a little suspicious to me. But looking at his play as a whole: I would consider him to be a bit of a "pitbull" - type player. He seems to like to tunnel in on others (most recently, Ange), and keep on attacking them until they are either lynched, NK'ed, or he is generally satisfied. Possibly only until they are lynched or NK'ed... I can't really tell yet. -_-
While I personally don't consider this type of play style to generally be pro-town, he has been fairly consistent in it. And, to be fair, most of the arguements he's presented do feel like they have some validity to them.
Most recently, in the case with Ange, while I also see where Ange is coming from, I will admit that bussing Zork does have its potential benefits for scum. While I also agree that after the first mislynch Ange would come up suspicious, Ange would only need to survive one more mislynch to win the game if he were scum. I will also mention that Ange's case against Zork was only really brought back to life after I pointed out Ange as suspicious for not following through with his Zork vote after a scumslip I had found Day 2.
With all that being said, I have found Ange's play since then to be strongly pro-town. Not to the point of being "confirmed town," but he is nowhere close to on my suspects list right now. I just wanted to say I can at least understand where Darth is coming from.
On the other hand, Darth's aggressive and accusatory tone when I was bringing up that I strongly felt that Mord. was innocent felt out of place. Given the aggressiveness with which he's attacked other players, though, I can still visualize Darth as townie acting as he did out of frustration that the target he felt was scum was getting away.
One final note: Darth's last-minute vote switch seems to be one of the main points people are bringing up in their cases against him. I still believe that it was too soon after Zork's incriminating post to implicate that his post switching to Zork was based on Zork's post. In other words, I still believe he could have switched to secure a voting majority without having seen Zork's post.
So here's the TL;DR on Darthpunk: While I consider some of his stances suspicious, and his play style to have elements to it that aren't very pro-town, I don't feel that he is the "slam-dunk" third scum that other people are portraying him to be.
As for aRyuujin, expect a follow-up post on him within the next twelve hours. Unfortunately, something else has come up and I won't be able to post some additional impressions on him I had planned to right away.
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EBWOP:
If Ange were scum, he would have to survive through one more lynch, not mislynch as I worded it in my post.
In my mind, he's looking innocent, so the word "mislynch" is still pretty prevalent in my mind.
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As promised, here is my most recent impressions on aRyuujin.
@aRyuujin: So, recent developments for aRyuujin include what I consider to be his first "real" analysis post. Bolded are the parts of it that stood out to me, and what I'd like to discuss. This post is where I'll start:
+ Show Spoiler +On August 05 2012 17:19 aRyuujin wrote:@Shady Sands: Basically, you're saying that my main scum tell is that I'm lurky. While I definitely AM lurky, it's not because I'm scum, it's because I barely have stuff to say . Even when I do contribute, people point out that I'm just agreeing with others. Hell, I even missed the day 2 lynch (though that was because I was incredibly busy). If I was scum, I'd at least have jumped on a bandwagon or something beforehand, rather than thinking I'd be able to make up my mind later (and consequently missing the vote). On Jingle: Recently, he's made a lot of emotional/fluff posts. At least in IRL mafia, when someone does that, it's generally because they can no longer find strong defenses against the arguments made against them. However, I don't see why Jingle would be so obvious in his 'fuck it they got me' attitude, especially considering how many believe he is experienced and skilled. On Darthpunk: like others have noted, that 'breadcrumb' by zork could easily have been just a way to give DP an excuse to seem anti zork. Note how previously, he was reluctant on voting zork, and finally changed when he saw there was no point in not doing so. This is a typical scum move, just trying to blend in with the other townies and going with the bandwagon. In fact, at one point he even calls zork a bad player (presumably for pulling the crappy breadcrumb stunt). This falls in sync with DP's other actions regarding the mordanis vs zork swap. Because of his recent somewhat random defense of Jingle, I'm led to believe that if Jingle is scum, then so is DP Also remember that one of the remaining mafia is godfather, meaning he will not turn up red. This means that a cop check will be substantially less effective, and the 2 mafia can cover/defend each other more easily. On Ange: I actually didn't have much of an opinion on he/she, but what Shady said makes sense to me. It's highly unlikely that scum would bus at that point, meaning that ange is in the clear. on GK: I initially had a somewhat scummy read on him. However, I think his recent posts seem really town oriented, and I have a feeling I was heavily influenced by his game long tunneling of me. Because he's been going after Jingle, I find it highly unlikely that he's mafia if Jingle is. At this point, I was debating between Jingle and Darthpunk. However, I'm voting for Jingle because of 3 main things 1)I'm fairly certain Jingle is scum 2)If Jingle is mafia, then it puts the nail in the coffin imo that Darthpunk is scum. It also somewhat confirms GK's town status 3)It's our best chance of getting a lynch at this point, seeing as Shady Sands is going for it, and is our most confirmed townie.
aRyuujin's excuse for never posting: "it's because I barely have stuff to say"
I find this very hard to believe. Why would you even bother playing this game if you went in with the intention of contributing nothing? What satisfaction could you possibly get, even if you won, if you weren't in any way responsible for the outcome of the game?
While pretty much everything you've said to date has been rehashings of others' views, several things stuck out to me about this post:
When discussing Jingle's most recent actions: "Recently, he's made a lot of emotional/fluff posts. At least in IRL mafia, when someone does that, it's generally because they can no longer find strong defenses against the arguments made against them. However, I don't see why Jingle would be so obvious in his 'fuck it they got me' attitude, especially considering how many believe he is experienced and skilled."
This is really the first point that seems to actually come from you. If you want any chance at establishing your innocence you will need to start making many more posts with points like this, where you create arguements of your own that portray your perspective of who is scum.
"It's highly unlikely that scum would bus at that point, meaning that ange is in the clear."
So this point from Shady makes sense to you... Why exactly does it make sense to you? This has been one of the biggest issues I've had with you all game. You seem to go, "Yeah, what he said." There's nothing wrong with this, as long as you also add some content of your own to demonstrate to us exactly why it is you agree with a certain view.
Regarding me: "I initially had a somewhat scummy read on him. However, I think his recent posts seem really town oriented, and I have a feeling I was heavily influenced by his game long tunneling of me. Because he's been going after Jingle, I find it highly unlikely that he's mafia if Jingle is."
This is yet another view of your own. Why is this the first time we are hearing about this? If you had a scummy read on me, you should have shared it with everyone. The last thing I remember you saying of your read on me was something like:
On July 28 2012 09:24 aRyuujin wrote:
-snip-
You still feel like town
Then there's this closing point from you: "2)If Jingle is mafia, then it puts the nail in the coffin imo that Darthpunk is scum."
You'd better explain this better, because in no way do I see this to be necessarily true.
I've already brought to attention your rehashings of others' arguements in your "cases," and why I believe your "lurking" to be deliberate. This is all clearly spelled out in my case against you.
But also, there's this:
On July 28 2012 01:48 aRyuujin wrote:
-snip-
Suspecting me-Smart I did not yet provide posts Either i'm scum or
A really bad Town.
This shows to me that you have some idea what it takes to be a good town. You clearly know that lurking hurts town. So why, exactly, is it that now, of all times you feel compelled to actually try to contribute? My suspicion is that it has something to do with people mentioning you as a suspect again. You had a brief flurry of activity while defending yourself when Golbat and myself had voted for you on Day 1. You explained it as a fear of "a bandwagon forming around you."
The bottom line is I actually like your + Show Spoiler +post (or at least the parts of it that you provided your own analysis). I am deeply suspicious, though, of the timing of your new activity, as well as why it took until day 4 before you felt inspired to contribute anything of value.
And regarding this quote:
On August 06 2012 06:33 aRyuujin wrote: Expect Goodkarma to paint me as 100% scum #3, he's been tunneling me literally all game long
No, aRyuujin. I'm not going to say you're 100% scum. I wouldn't even say that of JingleHell, who I'm currently pretty sure is scum. What I will say, though, is that to date you've done nothing to establish your innocence, and that's every townie's responsibility (if a townie you truly are). In fact everything you've written to date has read scummy to me. If you've seen my more recent case writeup on you it should be apparent why.
If you plan to have a chance at showing your innocence, you will be doubling your posting activity right now and establishing some cases that demonstrate your views on who is scum. If you're in agreement with someone, you will clearly explain why what they say makes sense. Basically, you will start to do what you should have been doing since day one.
Unfortunately, no amount of activity now is going to make up for your posting habits to date. But you can still work on showing you can actually contribute. This will go a long ways in showing you're pro-town.
But as of right now, I'm planning my vote for Day 5 to still be on you. Instead of being "annoyed" with me, I encourage you to do something about it.
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It appears that the Darthpunk lynch is gaining momentum. And now there's side-tangents that include alan too... I'm still against lynching Darthpunk today. Can someone kindly explain to me why he's 100% scum? Ange's arguement against him was summarized as:
On August 06 2012 07:10 Ange777 wrote:1. During the Zork lynch discussion DarthPunk repeatedly soft-defended Zork, pushed Mordanis as lynch candidate and proposed to lynch aRyuujin instead of Zork. 2. He switches votes very conveniently at around the same time when Zork fake claims medic. I believe that scum decided in their QT to concede to the Zork lynch.
1) Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall Darthpunk's "defense" of Zork amounting to he felt Zork was some kind of lurker. And if we were to lynch solely based off that reasoning we should lynch aRyuujin. I don't recall much further "defense" than that, and that seems like a reasonable arguement if he was looking at it solely from the lurker standpoint.
2) I find Darthpunk's claim that he hadn't seen Zork's post before his post FAR MORE BELIEVABLE than that in QT scum were like "let's have Darthpunk change vote and bus Zork TWO MINUTES AFTER he incriminates himself." I'd expect a move like this to be planned out hours ahead of time so that Darthpunk could change his vote way ahead of time and avoid suspicion...
Thanks aRyuujin for your most recent case post. It's a dramatic improvement from earlier . One thing on your case against Darthpunk I'd like to specifically address, though, is your implication that NK'ing Mordanis benefited Darthpunk. Any such discussion of why scum NK'ed a specific person I feel is too much WIFOM to really bring up. I could come up with other realistic reasons why they might have NK'ed Mordanis. The first that comes to mind is they wanted to get someone they were pretty sure wouldn't be medic saved...
If someone could summarize a specific case point that shows Darthpunk's guilt that I haven't discussed here please let me know. I wanted to give Darthpunk a chance to defend himself, as I feel his defense is just as important as what was said in the case against him to get a good read of the situation. But after his defense, I don't feel the evidence is there to say he's a sure scum, especially compared to Jingle. Jingle has been spending his posting time calling us tunneling sheep, which is hardly a compelling arguement -_-
I understand the need for town to stay united, and will coincide my vote with Shady's to secure the lynch for Darth IF IT COMES TO THAT, but I honestly hope it doesn't. I feel we're getting ahead of ourselves. Almost everyone is in agreement that Jingle is scum, so why are we now voting Darth? If there's some compelling arguement for lynching him I've overlooked, please enlighten me.
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EBWOP: Jingle has been spending his posting time calling us tunneling sheep, which is hardly a compelling defense -_-
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Sigh... This is what I get for going to bed
There's been so much activity last night as to make my head explode...
I honestly still don't see this damning evidence.
First, let's address this single point: That my stance is if DarthPunk is scum, it was an uncoordinated bus, with Zork's post being really bad timing. And people have said they don't expect a bus, so why is this case against Darthpunk gaining such momentum? I still seriously can't follow what's going on. I've seen the points I've addressed already and one more:
That JingleHell is considered town by Darthpunk. This is very suspicious, I agree. Apparently enough so for Shady to vote for Darthpunk. But Jinglehell has been so suspicious I still feel he is a better lynch. To summarize Darthpunk's reasoning: whoever Ange attacks is town because Ange is scum. Very sketchy reasoning, but I still feel that JingleHell is a stronger read. And that this is the only point that seems to have any validity for lynching Darthpunk.
I'm especially for JingleHell over Darthpunk since I'm still not convinced scum bused Zork, and that's what had to have happened if Darthpunk is scum.
And regarding Darthpunk's OMGUS pointing at Ange and aRyuujin:
Scum doesn't need to avoid looking suspicious. Scum needs to stay alive as long as possible. People seem to just kind of handwave this fact: one more mislynch and it's MYLO for town every turn the rest of the game+ Show Spoiler + (I said LYLO before, but that's not strictly true. I overlooked that a no lynch would not lead to a loss. Hence MYLO is the correct term here.) . Honestly, if aRyuujin and Ange are scum, lynching one more innocent wouldn't be a bad play. I honestly don't see this town getting two correct lynches in a row the way it's coordinated right now...
Finally regarding Darthpunk's stance on "sheeping Shady's vote." Correct me if I'm wrong, but to secure a majority as town something like this needs to happen. I said I would follow a similar stance if that's what it took to secure a majority... I don't feel it limits discussion, as everyone can put forward their cases and indicate their favorite candidates with votes. It's just that by doing this, a majority can be secured around a confirmed town if things go wrong and town is too split to secure a lynch.
I said I would switch to Darthpunk, but the majority to lynch him has already been secured. Because the votes needed for the lynch have been secured, I will keep my vote symbolically with Jingle for the time being.
So there is my line of reasoning for not voting Darthpunk. Largely symbolic at this point, but at least, hopefully, you now know where I'm coming from.
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Lol nice call everyone
I'm really going to need to talk more with the hosts post-game, as I didn't see Darthpunk as the clear scum you all did. I mean, scum coordinating the Zork vote change so last-minute didn't feel like a likely scenario for me.
I think this clears suspicion from Ange, if there was any...
I'm looking forward to everyone's opinions on who the next lynch should be.
Darthpunk suggested Jingle was town... Was that a scumslip, or is that his way of trying to ensure Jingle's survival?
I honestly am not sure at this point. I've got a lot of reassessing to do on my reads, and if this flip is any indication, a lot of learning left to do.
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So it looks like Shady's current suspects are: Jingle, Alan, and aRyuujin. I've weighed in on all of them once last day cycle, but quite a lot has happened since then.
Ange brings up a good point about Jingle. I'm going to have to look back to how far back Darth was defending Jingle to confirm, though. I hesitate to drop the case against Jingle based on this one point alone though. As Ange has already pointed out, there are both town and scum motivations for this play. One BIG assumption that's being made in her arguement is that scum is going to play this game optimally. Looking at Zork's actions, I don't think this is going to be a sure thing, and there's more than the "0,00000000001%" chance that Jingle is scum. I will be looking more in-depth into the Jingle situation tonight, but I'm hesitant to just forget his very scummy gameplay from just a day cycle ago.
aRyuujin's posting for yesterday was an EXPLOSION of activity relative to the entirety of his posting history this game. It feels a little suspicious that he would just suddenly get so active in the game at such a pivotal time. To be fair, though, all his activity went into lobbying for voting for Darthpunk, who was GF... But if he were to bus, all we'd have to look at is his rehashings of arguements from earlier days, and all his case posts from last day cycle against a now-confirmed scum. I believe if he is scum, from what he did last day cycle he has done a good job of removing just enough suspicion from himself to potentially survive the rest of the game...
But there is one thing that both Jingle and aRyuujin have in common: their play has been incredibly inconsistent, to the point of having "I'm scum" arrow signs over their heads. But looking at Alan, his play has been far more consistent. But his viewpoints have also been far more sheepish. He has "blended in" with town to the point of being like a chameleon. I will be looking at some of his posts, and providing some of my input as to why I feel he is a good pick for today's lynch.
First, let's look at his policy on day one, where he says:
On July 27 2012 12:46 alan133 wrote: @My stance on Day 1 Lynch I am strongly against day 1 no lynch. Scums starts with an information advantage while townies starts without a clue. I believe by pushing a lynch can lead to more clues (e.g. vote pattern like Shady mentioned). The best outcome, of course, is to get a scum kill, but as long as we don't mislynch a blue, it would still fairly benefit town overall.
Notice the special mention of vote pattern. Also notice that he was not one of the people to vote for Golbat on Day 1.
Another mention of policy that stood out to me:
On July 27 2012 19:44 alan133 wrote: @Ange777 Mind you I am a paranoid person when it comes to playing Mafia, so if you're asking me what do I think, I would say Mordanis appears to be more scummy to me, but I also read Golbat's play as slightly scummy. However I did not go after Golbat lynch because Mordanis is after Golbat, and I don't see both Mordanis and Golbat being scums together. Hence I logically assume Golbat's is a townie playing badly. (Ignoring WIFOM/bussing)
So before even starting to lay out his point of view on Mordanis and Golbat, he tries to discredit himself by calling himself paranoid. There is no townie motivation for this, but there certainly is the scum motivation of wanting to stay out of the spotlight. He then goes on to say that Mordanis and Golbat both look scummy to him, but he's picking Mordanis as scum solely because he looks "scummier" to him right now. In other words, since people had brought up cases for both Mordanis and Golbat at the time, he is acknowledging they both look scummy while being wishy-washy on both. And this is by no means the only spot he is wishy-washy. He was kind enough to make TL;DR's on most his stances, making them easy to pick out from his filter:
On July 27 2012 23:46 alan133 wrote:
-snip-
TL;DR I am indifferent about Shady's alignment
-snip-
TL;DR I am not comfortable with lynching Golbat -snip- TL;DR I think Mordanis is the best lynch candidate right now
Also, I would like to call out MrMedic, Obvs and aRyuujin. While I am not saying these three people must be scum, I hope they contribute more so we can hear more from them.
So he believes Mordanis is the best lynch candidate day one. Okay, but then he says:
On July 28 2012 20:42 alan133 wrote: Shady -snip- TL:DR I am slightly inclined to believe he is Scum. -snip- TL:DR I am against lynching Golbat. -snip- TL:DR I am swayed to believe Mordanis is less of a scum, I am not a big fan of lynching him right now -snip- That said, I would like to commit my vote to: ##vote: Shady_Sands
In other words, he decides to vote for the candidate he's only slightly inclined to believe is scum. Very wishy-washy. And it could be argued that from a scum motivation, he is well aware that there will be heavy scrutiny of the vote pattern for the innocent (Golbat), and he wants to stay away from the fallout.
Continue to day 2, alan has his first strong stance:
On July 31 2012 04:20 alan133 wrote: -snip- TL:DR Shady Sands looks very scummy - I believe he will flip red
But then...:
+ Show Spoiler +On August 01 2012 04:12 alan133 wrote:Votes are extremely sparse, and it is supposed to be 4 hours until lynch time? I was going through Zorkmid's and Goodkarma's filter since they seems to be the other lynch candidates. @Zorkmid I personally am not a big fan of his sudden disappearance. He later reappears twice: once to post one case on Golbat and Mordanis each using arguments that were mostly already laid out by other players, another one is to vote Golbat. His day 2 post were much better. There are more reads, but he rarely follows up. His "hostile" reaction when pressured reminded me too much of a mislynch that I am partially responsible for. Someone reacted hostilely towards a case against me that include personal attacks. I recognize this as a scum trait and posted another case on him because of it later- then he flipped town. I am incline to think this is somehow a townie trait: Dismissing WIFOM, I assume scum would be more cautious about his/her case and would want to maintain a "healthy" relations towards other players. TL:DR I am not a big fan of lynching Zork right now, but I will keep tab on him@Goodkarma My impression on him was that he has a stance on lurkers and seems like he plays to get rid of them. I don't see his posts as "trying to create noise for town". He did state his policy clearly and it does not betray the way he approaches the game in day 1. I have a null read on day 2. That is because he is mostly defending himself against people who build cases on him based on his publicly announced lynch policy. While I personally disagree with focusing on lurkers when there are already candidates out there, his case on Promethelax was not only based on his policy, but has shifted to actual scum hunting play. However, I am vary of "friendly" posts like these: + Show Spoiler +@alan:
Thanks so much for this advice! This is exactly the kind I needed to hear. My concern with giving multiple suspects was more along the lines of what if one of those people is guilty and the other two are innocent? The guilty party has the strongest scum read. Wouldn't giving multiple suspects just make it easier for the mafia to get behind one of the two innocent lynch targets, than if you stuck with the person you consider most suspicious? But you suggest from actual in-game experience that only giving one player may be even more damaging when you have multiple scum reads... I can follow your line of reasoning, and can agree with it. I understand that Prox is looking for more transparency from me, and I feel that presenting an arguement like alan's would have been more helpful than tossing his vote. The reason for keeping my suspects "mysterious" is this fear that the mafia can use that list against town. While I don't think I played poorly other than messing up names twice and have poor grammar/general language skills, and last time I check I am not a 100% confirmed townie, and only scums know a person's alignment. I am not pushing a case based on one silly speculation, but If you're town sided, letting your guard down does not help. TL;DR I don't find goodkarma as scummy as some of you has paint him in, and I don't fancy lynching him@Shady Sands I saw your post about your brother. I hope everything's fine. I would like you to look at my case against you, and post a defence when you are available. However, you can ignore the argument where I said you were lurking in day 2 as it seems like you have a legit reason. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=353315¤tpage=27#525That said, I believe Shady Sands is still scummy based on his day 1 play. I will look at Promethelax's filter because it seems like he is set to be lynched. @Promethelax I don't have a deep impression on him. Back in my mind he posted a lot of fluffs but I didn't pay much attention to him since he seems to agree with my reads (at least about Shady) The people he has a scum read in two in-game days is Shady and Goodkarma. That's about 5-6 post spent in about He stays away from Mordanis and Golbat's cases dismissing them as "two player OMGUSing each other". I have to admit Golbat's play was not the best, what makes him so sure about their alignment? I find Promethelax a bit "too trusting". Ryu was posting in haik.. poems. I did not comment on it as he stopped pretty soon. I believe scums could easily twist town Ryu's words while scum Ryu can twist around his own words to cover his slips. Promethelax seems to be okay with it. Also, I couldn't help but notice his buddying up Keir. He claims he has an explanation for that and will post it before the end of night 2. I don't buy it. As far as I know he was the one who was after Goodkarma hiding his "mystery suspect". I know this is in different context, but I believe having a "mystery reason" to be "revealed" after the day lynch (so don't lynch me) is just as bad. I know other players has mentioned it, but the "town ring" thing he posted seemed very suggestive. He went so far as to dismiss it as a joke, which I strongly dislike. I believe making jokes are bad, it leaves up a lot of room for interpretation, and a scum player can always claim they were joking about something that said which is scummy. I deem Promethelax's passive lurking, non committal cases, friendly attitude and general bad play to be very scummy, in fact, reminds me a lot of the last scum that we never caught in my last game. ##vote: Promethelax
So, in summary: alan's never been sure lynching anyone's a good idea, is willing to go with a "slight scum read" on day one to change his vote to the minority and avoid suspicion, and is willing to change to Prox on day two last minute after his strong scum read on Shady. His reasoning for voting Prox is rehashings of stuff that was already said of his behavior, and his vote makes sense from a scum perspective since it was uncertain the lynch majority would be secured. An innocent lynched would obviously be far better than a no-lynch for scum. And this is just up to day two...
He does later try to justify this last minute switch to Prox., saying he didn't have time to fully explain it. I'm not fully satisfied with his explanation though, especially because it required prodding to get this from him when it was clearly an important part of his explanation for why he voted as he did. In my opinion, his vote timing has been too convenient for me to rule out it wasn't scum motivated, especially when he mentions the lack of a vote count while writing his Prox. vote post. His after-the-fact explanation is given below:
+ Show Spoiler +On August 02 2012 13:14 alan133 wrote: GG Kei. @Shady Sands Shady is confirmed Mason. His "Kei's Will" post is minutes after the day post, so I doubt he could write all that up while molding it to fit Kei's post history in that short time.
@goodkarma I'll lightly comment on my vote on Promethelax over Shady day 2: I backed off Shady after I am convinced that Promethelax is scum. My biggest problem with Shady is his non-existence Day 2 presence and his sudden change of view of Mordanis. Later he came back with a (I assume valid) reason that I have little doubts of, which took away some of the weight in my case.
I did not pay much attention on Promethelax until that one post. I spent a long time writing his case and it convinced me he was scummier. Look at my case on him for clarification. Mind you it took around 2 hours for me to come out with all those, and lynch time is extremely close, so I made no mention of why he is the better lynch target in there.
Current Situation It sucks when everyone I have a read on flips town, or is a confirmed townie. I will need to reset my reads and do a reassessment of everyone based on what we have now. I believe we have enough information so it should be much easier to pin point a scum today.
He also seems to not be very invested in the game, as he has mistaken names in making case points on two separate occasions. This could be true as scum or town, but he has posted enough in my opinion that this feels more likely to be a mistake made by scum, with no interest in real scum-hunting, quickly trying to say enough to get by.
On July 31 2012 04:20 alan133 wrote: -snip- I've mistaken two players twice, and in one of them I am EBWOP-ing for mistaken a player for another. I apologize for playing this poorly, I will be more careful next time.
Alan has a consistent history of being wishy-washy about others, and has been very quick to jump from people he has a strong scum read on onto a different bandwaggon with what I feel is not enough justification if he were truly town.
Between what I've found and Ange's case, I feel there is enough there to vote for alan. Of the three, his actions seem to best fit a scum that is trying to play intelligently by blending in.
However, I will also say that Jingle and aRyuujin both have strongly scummy characterstics about them (that I have previously described...). I can't help but feel that their cases of inactivity has hurt town to the point of making this a bit coinflippy. Neither of them have done enough to establish their innocence to keep them off my list of potential candidates for tomorrow's vote if alan doesn't flip red. It's not entirely Jingle's fault in the former case, but it is aRyuujin's fault in the latter. While his surge of activity certainly helped the cause, I can't help but feel that town's situation would be much stronger if he had spoken up more earlier.
##Vote: alan133
I look forward to seeing what Alan has to say about my case points.
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@Shady:
I'm here, but I had a pretty lengthy case write-up. Took a while to write. I'll be around the next few hours and actively following the thread. So if you, or anyone else for that matter (especially alan) have anything to comment on for my case feel free to let me know. And of course, if I have anything else to add I'll chime in.
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Nice! I feel proud to be a part of a town that fought so hard to come back from the brink of defeat to grab the win. And I also feel proud to have gotten that win from such tough scum competition . This was a very fun game. I can only hope that NMM XXIII is just as epic .
A quick couple questions: Where can these qts be found? I can't seem to find the mafia qt... And can we now see the other qts too (such as the obs qt), now that the game is finished?
Also:
@aRyuujin: I was not trying to "pick on" you. I was looking for more activity from you, which you didn't really deliver until your (well-made) Darthpunk case. But I was also looking for inconsistencies in play, so when you did what I encouraged you to do, and started actively posting, you also looked suspicious. I admit I put you in a bit of an impossible situation. Hopefully you can understand I was just trying to go with my reads and won't take it personally.
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