EPTNewbie Mini Mafia XXII
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
When one comes another leaves We will never start | ||
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
On July 27 2012 05:29 marvellosity wrote: what the deuce? I'm a bad guy? GHOST YOU ARE IN SO MUCH TROUBLE someone has to kill qatol | ||
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
A little bit about me: First game on TL I've played IRL Which is different from forums Half the people cheat -_- New players are still Developing their play style Avoid meta reads I mostly agree with everything posted here Lets kill mafia | ||
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
On July 27 2012 07:04 Promethelax wrote: Well while we're waiting let's breadcrumb secrets to each other. Victory, I'm sure, will be ours if we strive for it. Ghost must be being really nice to us because I already have a town read on all the players in this game, he must want us all to live happily ever after and not have to kill each other. Okay, so that isn't actually true but I hope a host does that eventually just to be a dick. its quite clear that he is breadcrumbing that his role is that of a dick | ||
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Suspecting me-Smart I did not yet provide posts Either i'm scum or A really bad Town. Mr Medic comes to mind For these reasons too On July 27 2012 11:53 MrMedic wrote: Ok, I am sorry about all these little posts I am doing. I am new to the game and am kinda reluctant to do a big first post but I will try now since everyone is telling me to post something worth while (I agree also). First, I agree with Darthpunk for a variety of reasons. The largest reason in all of this is that he is constantly saying contradictions with him self. Saying that we should lynch Mr K in his third option and he says this would be great but in the other options while saying this he says we might ruin the town more or it will be bad for the town. But the thing that most strikes me is that he says number 2 is the least probable but he says in his third option that we should lynch him now. But he says at the end we shouldn't lynch him right now. What this really shows is that he is trying to force the option one on too our minds and make us think that he just trying to take one for the team. So in conclusion, he is on top of showing what option he wants us to do. Also, he only shows the options of killing him and as a result would not be a big deal or be a good thing and even though he tress to show the negativity of the situation in actuality he steers you away from it and making it seem like a positive outcome no matter what happens. His first content post he looks he's saying stuff showing fallacies He's bandwagoning and his analysis makes little sense if you understand how mordanis was posting those were 3 what-ifs false contribution and his confusing posts lead me to believe that he's either a bad town, or a mafioso backup vote's on him Golbat + Show Spoiler + You picked mordanis super fast. I don't see why you would keep swapping. On July 27 2012 17:14 Golbat wrote: + Show Spoiler + I honestly expected more people to have read that stupid blog and judge me for it, and I don't really blame you. I can get really hotheaded and overconfident when I see a solution (or in this case, potential mafia), and begin trying to slam a square peg into the area between the circle hole and the triangle hole. I'm still not sure about your scum status, but at the same time, I want to explore all possibilities, and casting a vote before the halfway mark of the day is foolish anyways. If you're scum, it gives you time to shape up your posting, and if you're not, it gives scum time to run a train on you. Even while I was writing up my reads, I saw other people who could be scum just as easily as you. But now that I've been able to refocus, I really think I should give other people some space to talk, especially because half the town hasn't even really contributed, and that's never a good thing. I do want to state that whatever my read are in my previous post, they should not be taken as me being 100% certain of a person's innocence/guilt. DarthPunk and Shady could easily be scum too, but I think that before we come to conclusions, we have to look at the big picture, and that hasn't really been completely painted yet. Over here, time wastes You continue to take back and go back on mord On July 27 2012 18:51 Golbat wrote: The reason I backed off of Mord is because I felt like I may have been pushing too strongly against him based on his first bad read. I didn't want to appear to be scum myself, so I backed off for the moment. I still have a sneaking suspicion about him that he may be mafia, but I didn't want to lynch myself by pushing too hard on a bad read. I feel like i've been talking in circles around mord, "He's scum, no he's town, no he might be scum, no he's probably town", so I feel like I need to take a definite stance on the matter, and that is ##FoS Mordanis It's not the flat-out vote that it was before, but I still don't trust you. I've heard several times to trust my reads, and so this is my position. We'll see what happens between now and lynch time. + Show Spoiler + but for real now, I need to step away from the thread for a few hours But here, you go back without a new catalyst you appear to help but really, you're not (a super scum thing to do) ##FoS Golbat I plan to vote you but it could easily change depends on the thread Mordanis + Show Spoiler + On July 27 2012 21:22 Shady Sands wrote: EBWOP: Just realized I forgot to slot in why Mord's post makes me want to hold off to Day2/3--Mord highlights "drawing attention to himself" and a willingness to stand up for his beliefs as keystones of his in-game habits. The thing with this playstyle is that playing as a "noisy scum" is very hard to keep up over 2 or 3 in-game days, because in a game as small as this, the analysis will very quickly start to shift in the right direction and noisy attempts to derail become more and more risky as the posts pile on--inevitably a fairly major scumslip will be made. By committing publicly to this sort of strategy, we can judge Mord the following way: if Mord continues to play loud and does not get quiet over the next few days, then Mord will either burn out quickly and scumslip or prove that he is not scum. If Mord quiets down after Day 1, then his above post basically consigns him to becoming an easy lynch--especially if Golbat flips blue/green. Shady's last edit summarizes why we dont vote for mordanis If he's mafia he will be a free kill soon if he's not, why vote | ||
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
On July 28 2012 04:14 Ange777 wrote: @aRyuujin: Is this your standard way to play Mafia? I am confused ... Posting in Haikus Makes the game more interesting Spoilers organize | ||
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
On July 28 2012 06:36 Mordanis wrote: I'm starting to get a really bad feeling about Shady. Remember his post that said that no game in 20 lynched scum D1? + Show Spoiler + On July 27 2012 09:02 Shady Sands wrote: So pretty much, I looked through about 20 mafia games and found not a single night one lynch resulting in a red kill. This suggests one thing: Day 1 scumhunting actually has a lower success rate than a random day 1 lynch. If the lynches had been truly random, then maybe 20-30% of the games should have had day 1 lynches turn up red, but none of them did. Here are the D1 lynches from several games: NMM XXI: blue NMM XX: red NMM XIX: blue NMM XVIII: green NMM XVII: red NMM XVI: blue (I couldn't find XV or XIV, so I chose to go to the SNMMs) SNMM XI: red SNMM X: green SNMM IX: green So we have 3 blues lynched, 3 VT lynched, and 3 scum lynched. So it would appear that in Newbie mini mafia games, there is about a 1/3 chance of lynching scum D1. With 3/13 chance a random lynch would hit scum (~24%), and historically a 1/3 chance of hitting scum through hunting, the choice is clear. This is for future reference really, as we're already hunting. But this brings up the fact that Shady almost certainly lied. Now there is sometimes a reason for a townie to lie. If it opens up an avenue for them to discover scum, or take one for the team, or accomplishes another goal it can be a boon to lie to the town. On the other hand, by suggesting that scum hunting D1 is useless, Shady is 1) discouraging discussion (why discuss when it only lowers the probability of hitting scum?), 2) stalling the game (mafia wants to stall as long as possible. they use their kp regardless of where our lynch ends up), and 3) trying to influence newbies' thinking (if analysis/scum hunt isn't the main priority, then mafia get off free for mistakes while being able to penalize some other player. This goes with stalling). In short, Shady lied in a pretty baldfaced manner, and the lie only serves the interest of mafia. Also, after reading through Obvious's filter last game, I saw that his behavior was almost identical to Golbat's. Golbat, you need to contribute, because if you don't, you're going to be looking even scummier. But I have seen almost identical play from a townie (Obvious was lynched D1 though), so for now I am going to switch my vote. ##Unvote ##Vote: Shady_Sands No good townie would try for such a bad gambit that early day 1 But it makes me think Why would a mafioso Lie obviously? | ||
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
##FoS: Shady_Sands | ||
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
On July 28 2012 08:27 Keirathi wrote: Thats a big maybe considering thats exactly what filters are for; to follow people's changing thoughts and patterns. If he didn't want people following up on what he said, it seems like it would make more sense to just not say it. That said, I'll concede this point for now and read through his filter again and keep an eye on him. I don't feel the need to address your other points If you want, I will Spoilers are used so My thoughts about each issue are well organized People will not read a wall of text- example: MrMedic's post It's odd that you are out to get me, though noone else believes in you I feel like a scum would get his buddies to help You still feel like town | ||
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
oops, I meant Karma | ||
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
@Keir: yeah, I'll stop haikus lol @goodkarma: You're still the only one who believes I'm scum, and you're definitely entitled to your opinion. However, it seems like you made up your mind that I'm scum before you found any legit evidence, just to show that you contribute, and are just cherry picking random junk to back you up. You say, "One final point I'd like to mention is this makes yet another person that's come at me after voting for aRyuujin." However, darthpunk isn't coming after you, he's pointing out that you're not contributing. When you say "If nothing else, it makes aRyuujin even more suspicious in my eyes.," It seems as if you're accusing Keirathi and DP as Mafia as well. (they're bailing me out?) Now, let's think about this for a minute. If you lynched me, and I flipped red, the obvious step would be to lynch them. What kind of real mafia would defend scum with such little lynch threat? Though you say that If you lynched me, and I flipped green, then town is no better off than before. This whole tangent does NOT show that Darthpunk or Keir are red OR green, and any reasoning you try to do based on my green flip (assuming there's nothing insane posted) is pretty much WIFOM. @Darthpunk: I'm hesitant to take suspicion off of golbat, mainly because claiming inexperience is a HUGE scum trait. He has spent a tremendous amount of time doing 2 things: a)Changing his mind b)talking about his noobiness Those are two big scum tells because the first makes it look like he contributes without actually contributing (i tried to mention it earlier, but haikus are difficult to convey thoughts through), and the second helps play away scum tells. (Oh, that (referencing scum moves) doesn't help? I thought it did... etc.) @Mordanis: I probably jumped on your Shady bandwagon too soon. If someone lies at this point, though, and we can prove it, I definitely believe they are target number 1. I doubt I'll be posting in time again for the deadline, therefore it's important that I vote here: I'm voting Golbat because of the 2 reasons I mention previously: He spends most of his time changing his mind/talking about how noob he is. ##vote Golbat | ||
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
wow, in between my composing that post and posting it, Golbat has pitched in. I'm now somewhat worried that a bandwagon will form regarding me, as I won't have time to post in the morning, and may be busy probably past the deadline. Therefore, I will now sort of address Golbat's reasons for voting me: He says (referring to me): This is why I am voting for him: His haiku style makes it easy for him to fill up his posts with a shit load of waffle and some nearly baseless accusations and almost get away with it. I hope in between now and deadline the eye of suspicion takes a long, hard look at him, because his confusing waffle is nothing short of a full-on impediment to real discussion. Note that I've stopped posting in haikus, so that shouldn't be a reason to vote me anymore. More seriously, this is one of the reasons I stopped posting in haikus- I was having trouble conveying my points clearly. Golbat goes on to say, Here he says that he is either scum or "really bad town" what is the point of that? And he also casts suspicion on MrMedic for having a really confusing post where he doesn't say anything important (essentially what he is doing, but instead of saying a whole lot of nothing, he does it in haiku form). I don't think MrMedic is mafia, I just think he's having a hard time understanding how to contribute useful ideas. Throwing mafia suspicion on someone who I really think is just unsure of what to do is pretty scummy in my opinion. Basically, he decides to defend mrmedic randomly, despite even saying he's basically a lurker. (Note that goodkarma's primary reason for why i'm scum is that I'm a lurker). I'm not really sure why he believes this part of the post shows that I'm scum. Next, our good friend the pokemon says, "Here you recap my mistakes without saying anything new about it. The only new content you bring to the table is that you're putting you FoS on me for being flip-floppy. Your reasoning is really weak. For example, what do you mean by this?+ Show Spoiler + How can you accuse me of being scum because of flip flopping, and then say "I plan to vote you but that could easily change depending on the thread"? That's an inconsistency if I've ever seen one. He says my reasoning is weak, and provides one example, that I say I might not vote for him. I FoS'd him, but I'm not gonna vote that early, no intelligent player would. Later on, he does the same exact thing that he says is so bad, "I would also consider voting for Shady Sands, depending on the consensus of the town for these reasons ...Right now these two seem to me to be the most scummy. Of course, if someone else decides to act scummy as all get out, i'd be happy to vote for them as well . Noting that your vote is not set in stone is NOT a reliable scum tell. Finally, he agrees with me. w00t. Really, the whole case on me seems kind of silly. Because earlier, when people did not provide their posting schedule, it annoyed some guys, I'll reinforce the fact that I will 90% not even look at the thread before 5-6 my time, 1-2 hours after the adjusted schedule tomorrow. (Super busy day) glhf town | ||
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
Wow, that sucked. Really wish he just claimed though, when he realized that he was a lynch possibility. To be fair, I still think his actions were the most scummy so far, and I definitely would make that vote again. | ||
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
On July 30 2012 06:12 Shady Sands wrote: EBWOP: Continued--> Scenario 1 means scum is very confident in their ability to lead us on a mislynch, and/or also wants to be able to fake roleclaim medic in the future. Let's be honest. How many Noobie mafia would pull that stunt? Chances are we got a lucky medic save (maybe even a roleblock, but most town RBs don't block N1). That's valuable information that the medic should use, but I hope they don't roleclaim yet | ||
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
My bad, I knew i would be busy but I didn't put up a vote before hand like I did day 1. Thanks hosts for not modkilling me yet <3, wont happen again | ||
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
Initially, he's really into scum hunting. He's a somewhat controversial figure, but people seem to believe he's a town player, begins he's quite active in scumhunting. However, as soon as day 2 begins, he suddenly begins to quiet down. Even more important than the lack of posts is the sudden change in the posts themselves: Initially: He even tries to end the discussion by agreeing that the case on me is open and shut. Vague Pro-town comments + early excuse + bandwagon-ing + anti-discussion = quadruple scummy. So for right now at least: ##Vote: Golbat . Quotes like this show how he behaves decisively, voting on the spot. Now, let's look at his recent behavior:His discussion about prome: I'm really confused by Promethelax's play. He just admonished me for fluff posts. His entire first page of his filter is fluff. He comments on my opening case being really bad, regardless of my alignment. Look at his first FOS: Here, he's behaving in a way that contrasts greatly with his previous actions. He no longer is the decisive scum hunter. Now, he's merely confused. I do not understand Promethelax's play. It has been at times hypocritical, illogical, and bad. I see very little scum motivation for the way he's been playing, assuming he's a competent player. I don't see any town motivation either, so I would prefer to wait to see if he continues to play the way he has. ... I actually feel bad voting for him at this point, but he is my strongest read. This continues on to here, where he votes. Once more, however, he's markedly different from the active townie persona he portrayed earlier. Also important to note is the change in activity. Previously, he was one of the most active contributors. Now, he's slid down the scale quite a bit (content wise, he still has more fluff posts). However, this reasoning isn't nearly as solid, because he might just be more busy. Coupled with the change in behavior, however, I'm led to believe that ... Mordanis has changed because he wants to avoid scum slips. This happens a lot, where a very 'loud' player all of a sudden quiets down or changes suddenly. And it's oftentimes because they want to avoid a scum slip. Therefore, I'm ##FoS Mordanis. | ||
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
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aRyuujin
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but let's be honest: On August 04 2012 04:13 DarthPunk wrote: Ignoring the 'crumb' Why would you try to medic save the person that had missed a vote and has been the most inactive? I don't buy it at all. He's right, saving me is dumb for an actual medic. it doesn't really matter how I vote at this point, but hell I'll swap anyway ##unvote ##vote Zorkmid | ||
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
 . Even when I do contribute, people point out that I'm just agreeing with others. Hell, I even missed the day 2 lynch (though that was because I was incredibly busy). If I was scum, I'd at least have jumped on a bandwagon or something beforehand, rather than thinking I'd be able to make up my mind later (and consequently missing the vote). On Jingle: Recently, he's made a lot of emotional/fluff posts. At least in IRL mafia, when someone does that, it's generally because they can no longer find strong defenses against the arguments made against them. However, I don't see why Jingle would be so obvious in his 'fuck it they got me' attitude, especially considering how many believe he is experienced and skilled. On Darthpunk: like others have noted, that 'breadcrumb' by zork could easily have been just a way to give DP an excuse to seem anti zork. Note how previously, he was reluctant on voting zork, and finally changed when he saw there was no point in not doing so. This is a typical scum move, just trying to blend in with the other townies and going with the bandwagon. In fact, at one point he even calls zork a bad player (presumably for pulling the crappy breadcrumb stunt). This falls in sync with DP's other actions regarding the mordanis vs zork swap. Because of his recent somewhat random defense of Jingle, I'm led to believe that if Jingle is scum, then so is DP Also remember that one of the remaining mafia is godfather, meaning he will not turn up red. This means that a cop check will be substantially less effective, and the 2 mafia can cover/defend each other more easily. On Ange: I actually didn't have much of an opinion on he/she, but what Shady said makes sense to me. It's highly unlikely that scum would bus at that point, meaning that ange is in the clear. on GK: I initially had a somewhat scummy read on him. However, I think his recent posts seem really town oriented, and I have a feeling I was heavily influenced by his game long tunneling of me. Because he's been going after Jingle, I find it highly unlikely that he's mafia if Jingle is. At this point, I was debating between Jingle and Darthpunk. However, I'm voting for Jingle because of 3 main things 1)I'm fairly certain Jingle is scum 2)If Jingle is mafia, then it puts the nail in the coffin imo that Darthpunk is scum. It also somewhat confirms GK's town status 3)It's our best chance of getting a lynch at this point, seeing as Shady Sands is going for it, and is our most confirmed townie. | ||
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
In conclusion: Jingle/Dathpunk are mafia, ##vote Jinglehell ##FoSDarthpunk | ||
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
I'm getting a town vibe from him. I'm also still fairly certain that DP and JingleHell are scum, so that might be playing into it as well. One major thing he brings up is Jingle's play from NMM XXI. This is more of a town move, imo. I don't see why scum would find meta info about a player that CLEARS them unless they're clearing scum (obviously). Therefore, if Alan is scum, then Jingle is probably scum too, meaning we should STILL lynch Jingle this turn. Alan also doesn't post as much as many others. However, judging by my own lack of activity, I'm hesitant to call him scum based on that. Also, much of his posting is insightful. Though he was often wrong, he might just be unlucky or not playing well this game. Unlike Obvious, I'm hugely against lynching 'bad townies.' | ||
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
ninja'd by alan lol he's basically agreeing with me at this point, so chances are we're both scum or both town. As Jingle is more scummy than either of us, and I think DP is too, I think it's fairly obvious that we're both town. @Obvious I can see why you think I'm scum because of inactivity. I've noted several times how my lurking has been bad. I'd like to ask you a question, though. Why the hell would scum me miss day 2 vote? Scum can plan out votes/plays and jump on bandwagons much easier, as their goal is NOT actually finding scum, rather just looking like town (no shit). I | ||
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
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aRyuujin
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On August 06 2012 07:48 Obvious.660 wrote: My last post towards aRyuujin was completely disregarded. Where the hell does this post come from? The only town motivation I can see for aRyuujin to come into the thread pointing out that GK has been "tunneling" him the entire game is that he's been essentially inactive for most of the game and it's self preservation for the sake of the town. That said, there's nothing coming from aRyuujin that's showing me he's town. Yes, GK's earlier play was easily characterized as primarily anti-lurker. GK was mentioning aRyuujin a lot during his anti-lurker posts. I wouldn't call that "tunneling" since it's stating the obvious. ... If by your last post you mean this? + Show Spoiler + On August 05 2012 19:14 Obvious.660 wrote: Something more like this? I honestly don't know what to tell you. Your read on me is that I'm scum faking as a bad town who turned into a bad scum while still having this genius bad town fake. This seems like a logical read /sarcasm. People LYNCH bad townies (you yourself said something to that extant.) When I saw that post, I thought you were just joking, I didn't realize that was your actual analysis. Now at DP: + Show Spoiler + On August 06 2012 08:27 DarthPunk wrote: If I had to make a scum read right now. It would probably be on Aryuujin. I am far from confident in my ability to make reads but the logic behind an aRyuujin lynch is this. Take this HYPOTHETICAL situation: Obvious, GoodKarma and aRyuujin make it to endgame. Obvious is town, Goodkarma is scum, aRyujjin is town. If you take that situation aRyuujin is a CLEAR liability. Take another: Myself, Ange777 and aRyuujin make it to endgame. I am town, ange777 is Town and aRyuujin is scum If you take that situation aRyuujin is a clear liability also. Add to that these points: Every single opinion he has had has been on someone on which a bandwagon has formed. Every single piece of analysis of his has been blatantly plagiarised off other players. He has never taken an unpopular stance. He has voted for Golbat on his bandwagon. Missed a vote. Voted for Mordanis when he was the most popular choice and his reasoning was almost the exact same as mine from a few posts earlier. Voted for Zork at the last minute. Now is jumping on the jinglehell/darthpunk bandwagon Martyrs himself slightly and disappears again. With all that being said I find it equally likely him to just be a bad town as a scum (oh no I am 'soft defending' him) but at this point he is a CLEAR liability right now, and will become an even larger liability as the game progresses. UNLESS his posting and analysis improve dramatically. @ aRyujjin You're saying that I jumped on the Jingle/DP bandwagon? Look at the thread. I'm pretty sure I was the first to point at that BOTH of you are scum working together. Actually, I think I'm also the first to really say you're scum. Another thing to note is your usage of these heavily negative connoted words, like 'blatantly plagiarized'. You're bringing up Obvious' HOLY FUCK YOU NEED TO GET LYNCHED big red signpost. You're starting to get emotional, defensive, and are now striking back at your accusers. Another sign of scum. You're continuing to follow the pattern of behavior that Ange set out, even ignoring Jingle to make me your number 1 target. Sorry, DP, but you're digging yourself deeper and deeper into your hole. @Ange: As I said earlier, I'm certain that it's Jingle/DP as remaining scum. However, I think its important to lynch Jingle first, as that's what Shady wants us to do, and he's our biggest townie right now. I'll vote Darthpunk if town decides that we're going with him, but as of now I plan to vote Jingle today and DP tomorrow. | ||
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
@Obvious: Meant to put this in my previous post, but I didn't realize i forgot this part. You asked, "where did this post even come from?" Did you even read the thread? Goodkarma made a post, at the end of which he said As for aRyuujin, expect a follow-up post on him within the next twelve hours. Unfortunately, something else has come up and I won't be able to post some additional impressions on him I had planned to right away. | ||
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
On August 06 2012 08:49 DarthPunk wrote: Ah I am far from emotional. In fact I would say that you are being emotional and are lashing back at your accusers. I'd actually like to point out that my main accusers have been GK (all game long) and Shady Sands (Fairly recently). I'm only now getting annoyed with GK, and of course neither scum nor town me would accuse Shady. However, the supposed striking back at you that you say I'm doing... actually began BEFORE you accused me. Pretty weird how that works, huh... In my eyes, you're just driving yourself deeper into red territory now. Something else I'd like to note is that throughout the game, my main supporters have been Keirathi (mason who was NKd) and Promethelax (townie who was lynched the day I missed). Why would scum me NK Keirathi? Seems kind of dumb if you ask me. Especially when noone but Shady knew he was mason, and he wasn't scumhunting very heavily. Now, let's pretend for a minute that I'm scum following the plan that Obvious laid out for me. Why would I sit back and let Promethelax get lynched? as a supporter of mine, it would make a lot more sense to keep him alive. | ||
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
On August 06 2012 10:03 Obvious.660 wrote: aRyuujin, you still there? Today's your day, mate. DarthPunk wants your case against him, and I'd welcome any contributions you have to helping us figure out who is scum. That's the whole reason I built a case against you, if you haven't noticed. You've posted a few times today, what can a case or two hurt to add? I'm actually in the process of writing a case, lol. Just taking me a while. | ||
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
Right, I'm starting this post at 00:28 GMT (+00:00). In this post, I'm going to be analyzing the current situation. I believe there are two likely scum scenarios. Either A) Zork/Jingle/Darthpunk or B) Zork/Darthpunk/Alan I'm leaning towards situation A. However, because I think there's still a small chance situation B exists, I'm changing my vote to ##vote Darthpunk, in the hopes that others will follow the lead of Ange and I. If there is a threat of no lynch, I will change to Jingle. Let's be honest. Zork's doctor claim was fairly obviously there to let scum have an excuse to swap to his bandwagon. The people who swapped are me, alan, jingle, and darthpunk. I know I'm innocent, but it's up to you guys to decide that for yourselves, though it should be fairly self evident especially with this post that I'm town. This leaves Alan, Jingle, and DP. Jingle Everyone is fairly certain that Jingle is mafia, because of several 'scum slips'. I'm not going to address what others have talked about countless times. However, Jingle's latest post is quite intriguing. + Show Spoiler + On August 06 2012 10:28 JingleHell wrote: I'm entirely amused that playing LoL for the day turns me into a ragequit, in a game where there's literally no point in me trying to defend myself, because unless a scum attacking me claims scum, the tunnel won't get off me. By the way, DarthPunk... much as I appreciate the vote of confidence, claiming you have a townread on me at this point makes me wonder if you're setting people up to look bad after I flip. ##Vote DarthPunk So, why would Jingle make this post? Let's say for a minute that he's scum, as that's what most of us believe. He posted that in the hopes that if DP gets lynched, then he'll look clean. Also, if he gets lynched, it'll help DP look clean as well. However, we can't ignore the fact that townJingleHell would make a similar move. It seems as if Ange has also seen this possibility: that Darthpunk could easily just be setting up to be in the clear when JingleHell flips green. He later even makes this post: + Show Spoiler + On August 06 2012 11:25 JingleHell wrote: Are they mutually exclusive? Is there a problem with seeing something as being a scumslip? Even if you people are too busy wallowing in your WIFOM and confirmation bias about me to see it, DarthPunk seems to be preparing town to sheep him after I flip green. So for Jingle, while I'm FAIRLY sure that he's scum, I think there's a possibility that he's innocent and it's DP/Alan. Darthpunk This line of reasoning is going to seem a bit silly, but I think it's just piling onto the evidence DP has left us. + Show Spoiler + On August 04 2012 03:05 Zorkmid wrote: I didn't want to have to do this just yet. I am a Doctor On day one I saved Keir. Day 2 I attempted to save aRyuujin. I tried to breadcrumb this early on. Show nested quote + ##unvote ##vote Mordanis I think we're going to lose. On August 05 2012 11:12 DarthPunk wrote: So I have read through the thread. First up I would like to say GG mordanis my great sparring partner. I always believed you to be scum but I was proven wrong. I hope you can forgive me for tunnelling you so hard all game. I am going to write up a long post addressing the cases against me. On the thing with the post timing. It was 4am at the time and I wanted to get some sleep. It was tied at 5-5 and even though I was leaning towards Zork being just a bad townie rather than scum. I would rather lynch him than a no lynch. I actually didn't see zorks post because it happened whilst I was writing mine. I honestly just wanted to go to bed and didn't want to risk a no lynch. (obviously I stayed up for an extra hour because of his medic claim.) I have suspicions on who may be scum and I will make a case on them at some stage also. But I have some reading to do before class tomorrow so it won't come immediately (I will work on these posts on and off all day) That being said we are in a really good position at the moment. So I am glad people didn't listen to me which is ironic because yesterday I was annoyed mord was getting away again. Yes, this is weak. However, it is just icing on the proverbial cake. Something that I don't think has been brought up in this context is this post: + Show Spoiler + On August 03 2012 23:04 DarthPunk wrote: @Jingle @Ange777 So this is just wrong. Jingle started airing suspicions against you well before you started going after zork. In no way is the jingle situation between you and him relevant to the zork case. I don't know why you would draw that connection at all. If you had read the last game you will see that jingle caught scum by Identifying and avoiding a similar situation so it is understandable that he would be on the look out for a repeat of that. Your response to him was OMGUS and WIFOM. I can understand why he finds you suspicious, particularly when you immediately become super aggressive towards him when he posts a case on you. I don't really think you have a case on him to be honest. I initially had a small town read on you but after actually reading through the discussion between yourself and jingle I am starting to worry about you. Your reaction to jingle's pressure was an incredibly disproportionate response, and trying to draw a connection to a case you posted hours after jingle had first cast suspicion on you is very suspicious to me. I don't see any connections whatsoever between Jingles pressure on you and your case on zork. I have no idea why you would try and draw a connection that wasn't there. It seems to be OMGUS. but I don't like the fact that several aspects of your case (Jingle connection, MrMedic post) seem to have fallen apart on closer inspection and the fact that many of the other points could just be bad town play, makes me even more wary of following your lynch on Zork. It seems like it is just an attempt to make an easy mislynch on a lurky bad town player. Once more, though it's not an IRONCLAD HARDCORE damning post, it's something that seems very... interesting. Essentially, Ange begins to link Zorkmid and JingleHell. Darthpunk strikes that down without providing much real evidence, and begins accusing Ange. Why? Because he/she is making these connections. DP even says something to that degree, at I initially had a small town read on you but after actually reading through the discussion between yourself and jingle I am starting to worry about you. Your reaction to jingle's pressure was an incredibly disproportionate response, and trying to draw a connection to a case you posted hours after jingle had first cast suspicion on you is very suspicious to me. . If you reread this section of the post, it's quite obviously leaning towards a scumDarthpunk trying to protect his scum buddies. He even goes on to make this post (talking to Ange)I don't see any connections whatsoever between Jingles pressure on you and your case on zork. I have no idea why you would try and draw a connection that wasn't there. You seem to have been desperate to link jingle hell to your zorkmid case even though his case on you began hours earlier. You asked me several times to state why I felt the Zork case was weaker, and are now using all those answers you dug for yesterday in order to build a case that isn't there. It seems as if you 100% KNEW that zork would flip red. And then desperately tried to manufacture connections to him wherever you could. I can 100% see a scum motivation for this you bussed zork and not only gained 'confirmed town' status but have also set up 2 mislynches. , further showing his determination to bust that link. And finally, as I mentioned earlier, if you look at the last page of his filter, he progressively gets more and more emotional and lashes out at the people who accuse him. Like I noted when discussing Jingle, this seems to be a fairly scum move. Honestly, there's only one thing that made me a bit unsure of DP's red status. That's the NK of Mordanis. It seemed a LOT easier for scum to keep Mordanis alive than to kill him. He served as DP's punching bag for a quite a while, and he was a fairly controversial figure. It'd be easy to get a mislynch on him, right? However, this could also serve as a fairly decent defense, too. Not only does it seem less likely for DP to be mafia on Mord's green flip, but Mord was beginning to really hunt down DP. By eliminating him, mafia removes one threat who is highly motivated to hunt down a scum Darthpunk. It also has the benefit of not being a super telling kill, like NK of Ange could be. After looking at DP, I'm like 100% sure that he's scum. Either Jingle or Alan are his buddies. Because I'm so sure of it, like Ange(oh people are gonna yell at me for this -.-) I'd strongly urge town to vote DP today and (likely)Jingle tomorrow. Alan113 One thing that makes me believe it's not Zork/Alan/Jingle is this post: + Show Spoiler + On August 04 2012 06:07 JingleHell wrote: This came 5 hours before your vote. I voted late too, but I wasn't sold until the pathetic fakeclaim. You wanted to vote for him so bloody much but waited 5 hours anyway. Alan's most recent post ends with this: I would like to put my vote on VOTE## JingleHell, and FOS## DarthPunk. I believe we got this in the bag At that point, I think that's one of the better town things to do.Humor me for a minute, though. Let's pretend Alan is scum with DP. It's actually STILL a decent move, as I'm sure scum has realized that Darthpunk is starting to get quite a bit of heat and may believe that this pseudobussing of DP could give Alan the edge he needs to be appear as a semiconfirmed townie. In the same post, he also makes this assertion (regarding Me and MrMedic/JingleHell): I am not saying both can't be town (or with WIFOM, scum), but it won't make sense if both are town, unless there is some ballsy bussing maneuver going on in day 3. This is a fairly scum thing to do. He's suggesting in a fairly noncommital way that if Jingle is green, then I am red. He's basically setting up a next day mislynch of either of us, and he does this in a HUGELY scummy way, where he's set it up in a way that he can take back and explain away easily. After looking at Alan, I think the chance of it being DP/Alan goes up quite a bit. While Jingle is definitely more likely, we can't ignore the possibility of DP/Alan. Conclusion To conclude: Basically, there are two options. Either it's Zork/DP/Jingle or Zork/DP/Alan. Either way, DP is scum. Let's lynch him, and pick Jingle tomorrow. I finished this portion at 04:17 GMT (+00:00). I'm now going to address Goodkarma's post. + Show Spoiler + On August 06 2012 12:13 goodkarma wrote: As promised, here is my most recent impressions on aRyuujin. @aRyuujin: So, recent developments for aRyuujin include what I consider to be his first "real" analysis post. Bolded are the parts of it that stood out to me, and what I'd like to discuss. This post is where I'll start: + Show Spoiler + On August 05 2012 17:19 aRyuujin wrote: @Shady Sands: Basically, you're saying that my main scum tell is that I'm lurky. While I definitely AM lurky, it's not because I'm scum, it's because I barely have stuff to say . Even when I do contribute, people point out that I'm just agreeing with others. Hell, I even missed the day 2 lynch (though that was because I was incredibly busy). If I was scum, I'd at least have jumped on a bandwagon or something beforehand, rather than thinking I'd be able to make up my mind later (and consequently missing the vote). On Jingle: Recently, he's made a lot of emotional/fluff posts. At least in IRL mafia, when someone does that, it's generally because they can no longer find strong defenses against the arguments made against them. However, I don't see why Jingle would be so obvious in his 'fuck it they got me' attitude, especially considering how many believe he is experienced and skilled. On Darthpunk: like others have noted, that 'breadcrumb' by zork could easily have been just a way to give DP an excuse to seem anti zork. Note how previously, he was reluctant on voting zork, and finally changed when he saw there was no point in not doing so. This is a typical scum move, just trying to blend in with the other townies and going with the bandwagon. In fact, at one point he even calls zork a bad player (presumably for pulling the crappy breadcrumb stunt). This falls in sync with DP's other actions regarding the mordanis vs zork swap. Because of his recent somewhat random defense of Jingle, I'm led to believe that if Jingle is scum, then so is DP Also remember that one of the remaining mafia is godfather, meaning he will not turn up red. This means that a cop check will be substantially less effective, and the 2 mafia can cover/defend each other more easily. On Ange: I actually didn't have much of an opinion on he/she, but what Shady said makes sense to me. It's highly unlikely that scum would bus at that point, meaning that ange is in the clear. on GK: I initially had a somewhat scummy read on him. However, I think his recent posts seem really town oriented, and I have a feeling I was heavily influenced by his game long tunneling of me. Because he's been going after Jingle, I find it highly unlikely that he's mafia if Jingle is. At this point, I was debating between Jingle and Darthpunk. However, I'm voting for Jingle because of 3 main things 1)I'm fairly certain Jingle is scum 2)If Jingle is mafia, then it puts the nail in the coffin imo that Darthpunk is scum. It also somewhat confirms GK's town status 3)It's our best chance of getting a lynch at this point, seeing as Shady Sands is going for it, and is our most confirmed townie. aRyuujin's excuse for never posting: "it's because I barely have stuff to say" I find this very hard to believe. Why would you even bother playing this game if you went in with the intention of contributing nothing? What satisfaction could you possibly get, even if you won, if you weren't in any way responsible for the outcome of the game? While pretty much everything you've said to date has been rehashings of others' views, several things stuck out to me about this post: When discussing Jingle's most recent actions: "Recently, he's made a lot of emotional/fluff posts. At least in IRL mafia, when someone does that, it's generally because they can no longer find strong defenses against the arguments made against them. However, I don't see why Jingle would be so obvious in his 'fuck it they got me' attitude, especially considering how many believe he is experienced and skilled." This is really the first point that seems to actually come from you. If you want any chance at establishing your innocence you will need to start making many more posts with points like this, where you create arguements of your own that portray your perspective of who is scum. "It's highly unlikely that scum would bus at that point, meaning that ange is in the clear." So this point from Shady makes sense to you... Why exactly does it make sense to you? This has been one of the biggest issues I've had with you all game. You seem to go, "Yeah, what he said." There's nothing wrong with this, as long as you also add some content of your own to demonstrate to us exactly why it is you agree with a certain view. Regarding me: "I initially had a somewhat scummy read on him. However, I think his recent posts seem really town oriented, and I have a feeling I was heavily influenced by his game long tunneling of me. Because he's been going after Jingle, I find it highly unlikely that he's mafia if Jingle is." This is yet another view of your own. Why is this the first time we are hearing about this? If you had a scummy read on me, you should have shared it with everyone. The last thing I remember you saying of your read on me was something like: Then there's this closing point from you: "2)If Jingle is mafia, then it puts the nail in the coffin imo that Darthpunk is scum." You'd better explain this better, because in no way do I see this to be necessarily true. I've already brought to attention your rehashings of others' arguements in your "cases," and why I believe your "lurking" to be deliberate. This is all clearly spelled out in my case against you. But also, there's this: This shows to me that you have some idea what it takes to be a good town. You clearly know that lurking hurts town. So why, exactly, is it that now, of all times you feel compelled to actually try to contribute? My suspicion is that it has something to do with people mentioning you as a suspect again. You had a brief flurry of activity while defending yourself when Golbat and myself had voted for you on Day 1. You explained it as a fear of "a bandwagon forming around you." The bottom line is I actually like your + Show Spoiler + August 05 2012 17:19 And regarding this quote: No, aRyuujin. I'm not going to say you're 100% scum. I wouldn't even say that of JingleHell, who I'm currently pretty sure is scum. What I will say, though, is that to date you've done nothing to establish your innocence, and that's every townie's responsibility (if a townie you truly are). In fact everything you've written to date has read scummy to me. If you've seen my more recent case writeup on you it should be apparent why. If you plan to have a chance at showing your innocence, you will be doubling your posting activity right now and establishing some cases that demonstrate your views on who is scum. If you're in agreement with someone, you will clearly explain why what they say makes sense. Basically, you will start to do what you should have been doing since day one. Unfortunately, no amount of activity now is going to make up for your posting habits to date. But you can still work on showing you can actually contribute. This will go a long ways in showing you're pro-town. But as of right now, I'm planning my vote for Day 5 to still be on you. Instead of being "annoyed" with me, I encourage you to do something about it. On his first suggestion: I find this very hard to believe. Why would you even bother playing this game if you went in with the intention of contributing nothing? What satisfaction could you possibly get, even if you won, if you weren't in any way responsible for the outcome of the game? I played because I love IRL mafia. I've played hundreds of games of IRL mafia on school trips to competitions, during lunch, and exam periods that my friends and I are exempt from. I rarely had stuff to say because this is my first game of forum mafia on any forum. I'm used to making calls based on people's emotions, their faces, and their personalities. I think this is a fairly silly thing to say, saying that I will know what to say, how to say it, and when to say it, just because I know you should contribute. After all, look at Golbat. He tried to contribute, but didn't do it correctly. If anyone still does believe I'm scum, it really shouldn't be because of this. The next thing he says: This is really the first point that seems to actually come from you. If you want any chance at establishing your innocence you will need to start making many more posts with points like this, where you create arguements of your own that portray your perspective of who is scum. One of the reasons I could come up with this is irl mafia. It's a typical tell there. And I'm fairly sure what I'm doing in this post addresses everything else in this section. He goes on to say: So this point from Shady makes sense to you... Why exactly does it make sense to you? This has been one of the biggest issues I've had with you all game. You seem to go, "Yeah, what he said." There's nothing wrong with this, as long as you also add some content of your own to demonstrate to us exactly why it is you agree with a certain view. I agree with something... because I agree with it. Isn't that how it works? That what someone says makes sense? I can add a sentence saying, oh it makes sense because scum has 0 need to bus at that point, it only hurts them. But then people would say that I'm just paraphrasing the quote. he then says: Regarding me: "I initially had a somewhat scummy read on him. However, I think his recent posts seem really town oriented, and I have a feeling I was heavily influenced by his game long tunneling of me. Because he's been going after Jingle, I find it highly unlikely that he's mafia if Jingle is." This is yet another view of your own. Why is this the first time we are hearing about this? If you had a scummy read on me, you should have shared it with everyone. The last thing I remember you saying of your read on me was something like: On July 28 2012 09:24 aRyuujin wrote: -snip- You still feel like town The reason why I never mentioned it is because from what I understand, OMGUS votes are largely discouraged. I had a somewhat scum read on you, but I feel like it was basically a defensive reaction to your accusing me all game long based on what I felt was largely... nothing. If I start talking about why I think you might be scum when there are bigger fish to fry, it's not really helping town, especially when it's probably colored with my own defensive reaction. The last part of his post that I feel is really relevant is: Then there's this closing point from you: "2)If Jingle is mafia, then it puts the nail in the coffin imo that Darthpunk is scum." You'd better explain this better, because in no way do I see this to be necessarily true. I said this because I was certain that DP was mafia. I feel like I discussed it enough in that post, and it was pretty much there to encourage a lynch of Darthpunk (who I am still 100% certain is mafia). He questions the timing of my post, as well. Basically, I have a ton of free time today and tomorrow, and I noticed stuff. He then basically says I need to provide analysis to be town. Like I said earlier, this post pretty much handles that, I think. Sorry this took so long, I had to eat dinner and do some other stuff in the middle -.- | ||
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ugh I do this all the time(forget to add one line) but I'll be back to this thread in around 15-30 minutes. I will not see anything posted in the meantime until I get back | ||
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Why not kill the guaranteed scum now? unless you're of the opinion that me/Jingle or alan/jingle(which I think we basically ruled out) is more likely than DP/alan, then it's objectively better not to risk that 1% that we end up mislynching Jingle. Also, in case the mods don't see my vote tangled up in the huge post I made up above, I voted DP: ##unvote and ##vote Darthpunk And Shady, if the consensus is still that we need to lynch Jingle first, rest assured that I will vote Jingle over a mislynch. I just believe that it's in our best interests to hit DP first. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On August 06 2012 15:26 DarthPunk wrote: @ aRyuujins ROFLCASE This is nothing. I have also already responded to this several times in what I believe to be a satisfactory way. It is interesting that there is so little to go off that half a page of your 'case' on me is so impotent. It is also interesting that once again you are bringing nothing to the thread or the case on me that is new or original. Just once again repeating allegations that others have stated and I have cleared up. About staying up an hour later. I was interested in the medic claim and I was finishing watching heros game in ASUS ROG whilst I was in bed. I did fully intend on going to bed however I changed my mind (oh my god how scummy wtf?) I was posting my Vote switch at the time and did not see the zork claim. Just from reading my next post this should be clear as I immediately address it. I switched to prevent a no lynch. nothing more, nothing less. I said I would do this at the very beginning and I stuck to it. I don't know why this seems to be so difficult to understand but that is what happened. As you say this allegation is piss weak. and I don;t know how many times people like yourself will bring it up when I have already addressed it. If you are going to make a case. Might I suggest instead of repeating others ad nauseum you actually contribute some original thought. or anything. at all. In no way does this constitute any part of a case. Just saying it is suspicious does not mean anything. Moving on. So you are saying that I need to provide evidence in order to prove something isn't there? Really? Ange needed to provide evidence something was there. Something other than Jingle is accusing me whilst I accuse someone else. That is not a link. Jingle started against Ange HOURS before that. and at that time this was her entire argument. So not providing evidence for a link existing is townie. But me asking for evidence for a link existing is? Right. So the only case you have that is new or not retarded is that you perceive emotion in a text base game which is incredibly difficult to both convey and perceive emotion through. I don't know how to respond to your perceptions of emotion that isn't there. but next time you write a wall of text 'case' against me could you please include a case? If anyone sees something important could someone please convey it to me. Concisely if possible lol. You did exactly what I said you'd do in the first paragraph... Make sure that scum can't take advantage of this. They must address the whole post, or the conclusion. Not just cherry pick some parts. (I'm especially expecting DP to try to dismantle the first point against him, and try to shift the whole portion against him to that) Come on, man. I expected better than this! Anyway, DP, why don't you provide us with your own opinions? | ||
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On August 06 2012 15:40 DarthPunk wrote: Of course it is in your best interest to lynch me first. I am under suspicion and am accusing you. You said not that long ago that Jingle was the best to lynch first. The thing that has changed? I cast suspicion onto you. That's it. Can you be any more transparent? LOL I am 100% sure if GK had voted mordanis that you would be all over her like a bad salesman. Yet you sheeped my case on mord and are 100% innocent? LMAO Why don't you address my conclusion rather than getting all worked up? | ||
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On August 06 2012 15:35 DarthPunk wrote: @Jingle. I have a town read on you because you are experiencing exactly what I am experiencing. If the same people that are trying to mislynch you are also trying to mislynch me. I assume you must be town. If you think there is an ulterior motive for me believing you to be town and that that is enough reason to vote for me, so be it. That being said. I will continue to post cases and defend myself but I am sheeping shadys vote no matter what this cycle. If shady votes for me I will vote for myself etc. The reason for this is that the situation is bad at the moment. a mess really. I will sheep the vote of the confirmed town. Whilst still contributing as much as possible. If I had to vote for someone right now it would be aRyuujin he had less than a pages worth of filter but has LEAPT into action now more than one person is considering voting for him. I mean read his filter. the contrast is obvious. So basically you don't want any responsibility for your vote? It's been said, time and time again, the strongest weapon of a town is their vote. Abandoning your vote is NEVER a pro town move. Now, let's see what he actually says in this post. He has a town read on Jingle. Why? Because DP says DP is town, and anyone who says DP is town cannot ever accuse someone correctly. Seems legit. Now, let's see, why would DP actually say Jingle is town? Maybe... it's because DP ALREADY KNOWS that Jingle is town. Darthpunk is furthering his ploy to have Jingle's green flip make him look clean. Shady, come on man. At this point, lynching Darthpunk needs to be priority #1. | ||
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Over time, DP has had lots of these small tells, that if we add together, pretty much confirm that he's a scum. One is his defense of Zork. Contrary to popular belief, rather than just stating that Zork is a lurker, DP tried to find town motives to explain away Zork's slips. At some points, (I think where it simply became too difficult because of all the mistakes Zork was making), DP was just like fuck it, he's a bad townie, but..... let's lynch Mordanis! And when people realized how obviously scummy Zork was, THAT was the point when DP was like nope Zork = lurker. Then he made his supposed "instigating attack" that apparently led to me OMGUSing him. Control F for Zork here, it's quite telling. The other thing I really want to point out is that rather than advancing town's position, after being accused, DP has pretty much curled into a ball. He didn't even properly address my analysis (no I don't think it's a case), instead doing exactly what I said he would do: Ignoring my conclusions and instead trying to discredit it by taking small parts and acting absurdly. And it seems that I was ninja'd by Ange, but the thing we need to look for is motives. Not necessarily the actions themselves, but the motives. Why does DP behave the way he does is the question that we need to ask ourselves. On August 06 2012 16:00 goodkarma wrote: It appears that the Darthpunk lynch is gaining momentum. And now there's side-tangents that include alan too... I'm still against lynching Darthpunk today. Can someone kindly explain to me why he's 100% scum? Ange's arguement against him was summarized as: 1) Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall Darthpunk's "defense" of Zork amounting to he felt Zork was some kind of lurker. And if we were to lynch solely based off that reasoning we should lynch aRyuujin. I don't recall much further "defense" than that, and that seems like a reasonable arguement if he was looking at it solely from the lurker standpoint. 2) I find Darthpunk's claim that he hadn't seen Zork's post before his post FAR MORE BELIEVABLE than that in QT scum were like "let's have Darthpunk change vote and bus Zork TWO MINUTES AFTER he incriminates himself." I'd expect a move like this to be planned out hours ahead of time so that Darthpunk could change his vote way ahead of time and avoid suspicion... Thanks aRyuujin for your most recent case post. It's a dramatic improvement from earlier  . One thing on your case against Darthpunk I'd like to specifically address, though, is your implication that NK'ing Mordanis benefited Darthpunk. Any such discussion of why scum NK'ed a specific person I feel is too much WIFOM to really bring up. I could come up with other realistic reasons why they might have NK'ed Mordanis. The first that comes to mind is they wanted to get someone they were pretty sure wouldn't be medic saved...If someone could summarize a specific case point that shows Darthpunk's guilt that I haven't discussed here please let me know. I wanted to give Darthpunk a chance to defend himself, as I feel his defense is just as important as what was said in the case against him to get a good read of the situation. But after his defense, I don't feel the evidence is there to say he's a sure scum, especially compared to Jingle. Jingle has been spending his posting time calling us tunneling sheep, which is hardly a compelling arguement -_- I understand the need for town to stay united, and will coincide my vote with Shady's to secure the lynch for Darth IF IT COMES TO THAT, but I honestly hope it doesn't. I feel we're getting ahead of ourselves. Almost everyone is in agreement that Jingle is scum, so why are we now voting Darth? If there's some compelling arguement for lynching him I've overlooked, please enlighten me. and @ Darthpunk If you want us to take you for a townie, you're going to have to act like a townie. All you've really posted is that you feel for Jingle for getting accused and that you're mad at me/i'm an idiot/i'm scum/there's something very funny for accusing you. What do you think about Alan? Who's the other scum besides myself? Why is it that when I address you, you ignore what I'm saying, and then say that I'm the one ignoring what you're saying? What's the REAL reason why you think Jingle is town? And why are you going to brush this post off with plenty of LOL, ROFL. and LMAO? Something else I dug up: + Show Spoiler + On August 03 2012 17:29 DarthPunk wrote: Can I just clarify before you leave why you are voting for Zork if Aryuujin is your top scum read. also. SEE waiting around for shady sands to see who to vote for is ridiculous. I am SO GLAD you are going back on that. Here, we have a discussion where DP is . Word for word, DP says that his(DP's) current behavior is "ridiculous" This is somewhat offtopic, so I'll keep it in a spoiler, but it's directed at DP + Show Spoiler + On August 06 2012 16:40 DarthPunk wrote: EBWOP: you also flat out ignore goodkarmas request. have some respect. Hey man, cool down. You're the only person who's been accused of breaking this: However, this does not mean that you should try to win by being a jerk to the other players so they all want to quit playing. , (In my eyes) you've behaved quite rudely after being accused. Hopefully (and chances are), I'm just getting annoyed because of something stupid, and everyone disagrees with me, but still. Relax and chill | ||
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
And Obvious references a good point: Darth has a town read on Jingle. On August 06 2012 16:07 goodkarma wrote: EBWOP: Jingle has been spending his posting time calling us tunneling sheep, which is hardly a compelling defense -_- I don't really see a reason to disagree with GK's summary. I'm trying to figure out how he can know Jingle is town without the use of WIFOM. On August 06 2012 15:55 aRyuujin wrote: Now, let's see what he actually says in this post. He has a town read on Jingle. Why? Because DP says DP is town, and anyone who says DP is town cannot ever accuse someone correctly. Seems legit. Now, let's see, why would DP actually say Jingle is town? Maybe... it's because DP ALREADY KNOWS that Jingle is town. Darthpunk is furthering his ploy to have Jingle's green flip make him look clean. Shady, come on man. At this point, lynching Darthpunk needs to be priority #1. | ||
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
On August 06 2012 17:13 DarthPunk wrote: This is what I am talking about. I am getting sulky?? what does that add to the case. you are posting ad nauseum whilst adding nothing to the case that I have not addressed, even though you Implied you would. Actually, posting ad nauseum would mean that nobody wants to discuss anymore. Clearly, that's not the case. Now, what I'm interested in is why you haven't answered the ~6 questions I posed you, or even referenced that post. It's actually quite possible that you missed it entirely, seeing as it was the last post on the page before this. However, if you were town, you'd actually be answering them by yourself. And like Ange said, the only scum motivation in accusing you would be to block Jingle's lynch, seeing as his bandwagon had already basically been set to go. (note that this would require 4 mafia in this game) However, as town players, our job is actually not to lynch town and sow confusion while saving ourselves. Instead, we need to hunt out the scum. Honestly, you're not providing us with anything remotely town motivated to go off of for ages. And is your reasoning for having a town read on Jingle still that you understand what its like to have a bandwagon? | ||
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
Sorry, should've refreshed the main thread. Didn't see all of DP's posts you just made 5 crappy posts in a row, accusing your accusers. Why? Because they accused you. Sounds like flailing to me. Your "argument" against the whole "Jingle = ez lynch" literally makes no sense. He's not there to defend himself? Wait a minute. Earlier, you said that Ange attacks people who aren't there to defend themselves BECAUSE they're not there (using yourself as an example). And in those 5 posts, you still haven't done anything constructive except provide absurd arguments. Because you seem to like traditional argumentation, you can say this post is basically 50% Reductio ad absurdum. | ||
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
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aRyuujin
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On August 06 2012 17:58 DarthPunk wrote: @aRyuujin As far as I can tell I have addressed every case or referred you to read my filter because it is addressed therein. I am going to have to leave the thread for a bit shortly. I am sure there will be alot of posts when I get back which state I am scum whilst providing no evidence. so I have something to look forward too @everyone else isn't the difference in posting from aRyuujin absolutely INCREDIBLE? I'd like to note that I've looked through his filter several times. He hasn't addressed + Show Spoiler + On August 06 2012 17:27 aRyuujin wrote: Actually, posting ad nauseum would mean that nobody wants to discuss anymore. Clearly, that's not the case. Now, what I'm interested in is why you haven't answered the ~6 questions I posed you, or even referenced that post. It's actually quite possible that you missed it entirely, seeing as it was the last post on the page before this. However, if you were town, you'd actually be answering them by yourself. And like Ange said, the only scum motivation in accusing you would be to block Jingle's lynch, seeing as his bandwagon had already basically been set to go. (note that this would require 4 mafia in this game) However, as town players, our job is actually not to lynch town and sow confusion while saving ourselves. Instead, we need to hunt out the scum. Honestly, you're not providing us with anything remotely town motivated to go off of for ages. And is your reasoning for having a town read on Jingle still that you understand what its like to have a bandwagon? or + Show Spoiler + On August 06 2012 16:56 aRyuujin wrote: Hey GK! Glad to see you're here. The thing about Darkpunk is that rather than it being one big thing confirming that he's scum (like how Zorkmid dropped that bomb), DP's red status' confirmation is made up of many small tells. Over time, DP has had lots of these small tells, that if we add together, pretty much confirm that he's a scum. One is his defense of Zork. Contrary to popular belief, rather than just stating that Zork is a lurker, DP tried to find town motives to explain away Zork's slips. At some points, (I think where it simply became too difficult because of all the mistakes Zork was making), DP was just like fuck it, he's a bad townie, but..... let's lynch Mordanis! And when people realized how obviously scummy Zork was, THAT was the point when DP was like nope Zork = lurker. Then he made his supposed "instigating attack" that apparently led to me OMGUSing him. Control F for Zork here, it's quite telling. The other thing I really want to point out is that rather than advancing town's position, after being accused, DP has pretty much curled into a ball. He didn't even properly address my analysis (no I don't think it's a case), instead doing exactly what I said he would do: Ignoring my conclusions and instead trying to discredit it by taking small parts and acting absurdly. And it seems that I was ninja'd by Ange, but the thing we need to look for is motives. Not necessarily the actions themselves, but the motives. Why does DP behave the way he does is the question that we need to ask ourselves. and @ Darthpunk If you want us to take you for a townie, you're going to have to act like a townie. All you've really posted is that you feel for Jingle for getting accused and that you're mad at me/i'm an idiot/i'm scum/there's something very funny for accusing you. What do you think about Alan? Who's the other scum besides myself? Why is it that when I address you, you ignore what I'm saying, and then say that I'm the one ignoring what you're saying? What's the REAL reason why you think Jingle is town? And why are you going to brush this post off with plenty of LOL, ROFL. and LMAO? Something else I dug up: + Show Spoiler + On August 03 2012 17:29 DarthPunk wrote: Can I just clarify before you leave why you are voting for Zork if Aryuujin is your top scum read. also. SEE waiting around for shady sands to see who to vote for is ridiculous. I am SO GLAD you are going back on that. Here, we have a discussion where DP is . Word for word, DP says that his(DP's) current behavior is "ridiculous" This is somewhat offtopic, so I'll keep it in a spoiler, but it's directed at DP + Show Spoiler + On August 06 2012 16:40 DarthPunk wrote: EBWOP: you also flat out ignore goodkarmas request. have some respect. Hey man, cool down. You're the only person who's been accused of breaking this: However, this does not mean that you should try to win by being a jerk to the other players so they all want to quit playing. , (In my eyes) you've behaved quite rudely after being accused. Hopefully (and chances are), I'm just getting annoyed because of something stupid, and everyone disagrees with me, but still. Relax and chill Talk a lot while saying little. This seems to be Darthpunk's main form of defense. | ||
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
-What do you think about Alan? -Are Ange and I the scum? -Why are we better reads than Jingle, etc.? -Why did you post 5x in a row without any content? -Do you have a reason besides "I understand what it's like to be accused" for having a town read on Jingle? -What's your opinion of the passage where you described sheeping Shady as ridiculous? -Address the 'Jingle is easier than you' discussion -Why haven't you moved town forward in your last ~30 posts? | ||
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
Why is obvious agreeing with us? Seeing as your main point about me and Ange being mafia because we accuse you, where does that leave him? | ||
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
On August 06 2012 20:31 DarthPunk wrote: @ ghost. shady's vote is on jingle. and as his is so is mine for now. ##VOTE: Jinglehell If you think I'm scum, vote with your opinions. Don't just blindly donate your vote to Shady, it only helps you slip out of any tight situations you get into as a scum. Why would town DP vote for Jingle, who he believes is town, over me and Ange, who DP is apparently super sure are scum? This sheeping is just an attempt to not have to take responsibility for his vote. | ||
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
On August 06 2012 20:09 DarthPunk wrote: -What do you think about Alan? Here, he basically says nothing. If his two scum reads aren't scum, then the non town people are scum. You don't say... Also, "Everything is so intertwined". This makes it seem like his excuse for not contributing is that it's complicated. This may sound hypocritical coming from me, but it's time to buck up and help out if he's town. Not contributing, but sounding like you're saying stuff is a scum move. -Are Ange and I the scum? No shit, he says that he "thinks we're likely scum". He's been saying that the whole time. What I wanted to know is if he's finally committing to that answer, rather than just thinking. However, now he seems less certain than before. Establishing a noncommital stance is a typical scum play. Honestly, if he was town, I'd rather see him stick to his guns and write a case against me and Ange. Instead, he's beginning to give himself an exit. -Why are we better reads than Jingle, etc.? He says our cases are weak. Yet, he never shows us why. To be honest, all of the stuff we've piled up on him seems fairly strong to me (resulting in me voting him). And his defense has been... lackluster. He hasn't had a true, straight up, post defending himself until this one. And as for my posting. Yes, it's different. I'm hunting scum actively for a bit. Deal with it. Until there are no scum reads that are disproportionately stronger than the one on myself, that's not a problem we need to worry about. -Why did you post 5x in a row without any content? That's not what a leading question is. A leading question is a question where I'm trying to get you to confirm the information located in my question. In fact, there's nothing wrong with a leading question. What you're thinking of, and what I sadly used, is a loaded question. Loaded questions are usually fallacious, and yes, this was definitely a bad question. I was just trying to get you to discuss the series of posts you made. And it worked, so whatever. Now about those posts. Though he says that they addressed contentless posts, what they were replying to were definitely not junk. Just look at the posts. I mean really? -Do you have a reason besides "I understand what it's like to be accused" for having a town read on Jingle? "Jingle has been the victim of the same traps on me" this is TOTALLY different from what I said. TOTALLY. Basically here, he's trying to make his reason sound more legit. He brings in his assumption that Ange and I are 100% scum (note that he still hasn't voted either of us, however)(and that he's still setting up exit strategies) to help defend his bad, scummy move. To quote Obvious once more: Something else interesting is he still hasn't addressed the fact that everyone else is pretty much 100% for a town ange (as ange started the attack on zork), even Shady, who he is supposedly sheeping. -What's your opinion of the passage where you described sheeping Shady as ridiculous? This one will be fun. This whole paragraph is fairly applicable to the current situation. I'll be putting my commentary italics. There were two clear candidates both had cases on them JingleHell and Darthpunk. It was the best play at that time to not wait for (an at that point largely AFK) shady to make a choice and then all sheep himstill isn't. And he hasn't posted for a bit(though everyone has plenty of irl stuff to do, so I'm not blaming him at all). Many people (including yourself) had not yet been active and it would have been far too easy for scum to hide their votes behind this shady voteIsn't that what you're doing now? Hiding behind this shady vote? Also, many haven't posted for a bit, either, like alan, shady, jingle, etc.. The net knowledge gained would have been less with everyone bandwagoning one candidate. how is this different from nowOne of the main reasons argued in favour of sheeping shady was that it would prevent a no lynch, which people were certain was going to occur. I knew this would never occur. I was always going to switch my vote to avoid the no lynch. As I have said previously I thought zork MAY be scum but I was CERTAIN mordanis was. seems exactly like the situation we're in now, tbh. As I have said previously, I think Jingle MAY be scum but I am CERTAIN Darthpunk is. Exactly the position of ange with the candidates reversed. I was wrong she was right. It seems as if this is mainly what I am guilty of.I think he's saying this is the main thing behind the accusations of him being scum. He's wrong, and it's fairly obvious to anyone who reads the thread All sheeping would have drastically reduced knowledge and discussion going forth, which would have been anti town.I AGREE 100%. WHY DOES THIS NOT APPLY NOW? -Address the 'Jingle is easier than you' discussion We've been working our asses off to get a lynch on you for the last several pages, and you're still not going to be lynched as of now. Do you honestly believe that this dual mislynch strategy makes ANY sense at all? Seems like a half baked explanation trying to get out of his post. -Why haven't you moved town forward in your last ~30 posts? What do you think I've been doing? I posted cases, asked questions, probed, and prodded. Literally all you've done until this post is whine and lash out at the people accusing you, without providing anything truly solid. So, did you not see any of this in any of the posts previously? Do you just not read the thread? | ||
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
On August 06 2012 21:42 DarthPunk wrote: EBWOP: and obviously you want me dead more than Jingle. So I will thwart your plans if possible. So you're thwarting my plans to lynch scum by ignoring your scum reads and voting for the guy you have a town read for? I repeat: How is this in any way town play? | ||
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
On August 06 2012 23:53 Shady Sands wrote: EBWOP: Just saw that alan is already committed to JingleHell, as is DP. Ange, let's vote JingleHell tonight. I'm still not sold on DP's guilt (or innocence). Right now my scumlist is basically JingleHell and aRyuu. Not only because of JingleHell's posting behavior, but because of MrMedic as well. aRyuu and Zork were the only ones that never called out MrMedic for being the most AFK player ever (even missing votes). GK, Ange, Darth, myself, Prome, Keir, and Mord all called out MrMedic but those two never did. Strange. There are a few more I'm looking at, but right now I think JH is our best lynch. Wait a minute. I actually accused MrMedic with my first game related post. And let's be frank: You can IN NO WAY infer from MrMedic AFKing so hardcore that he was replaced that he is scum. If anything, there's more of chance of him getting bored and leaving if he was VT than if he had a more exciting role. But even that is too silly to be brought up as a serious point. He probably forgot about the game, or got bored, or something. He got replaced. Do you really expect that he's some genius who planned out his replacement as a way to win? Despite how annoying JH is being lately, I actually agree with this post (or rather he agrees with me) [+ Show Spoiler + QUOTE]On August 07 2012 00:18 JingleHell wrote: On August 06 2012 23:53 Shady Sands wrote: EBWOP: Just saw that alan is already committed to JingleHell, as is DP. Ange, let's vote JingleHell tonight. I'm still not sold on DP's guilt (or innocence). Right now my scumlist is basically JingleHell and aRyuu. Not only because of JingleHell's posting behavior, but because of MrMedic as well. aRyuu and Zork were the only ones that never called out MrMedic for being the most AFK player ever (even missing votes). GK, Ange, Darth, myself, Prome, Keir, and Mord all called out MrMedic but those two never did. Strange. There are a few more I'm looking at, but right now I think JH is our best lynch. So MrMedic was "lurking" to the point of getting fucking replaced and that convinces you of my guilt? You somehow think that makes me look scummier than the person who is blatantly setting things up to direct things after my mislynch? DP clearly has foreknowledge of how I'm going to flip. And here's a WIFOM filled hypothetical for you, since you like those. Think about this. If I flipped red, which I know I won't, DP would be tomorrow's lynch for attempting to defend me. At least according to precedent. If I flip green, which I will, DP has foreknowledge of how I'll flip and is trying to make people who target me look scummy, which is scum behavior. In BOTH scenarios, no matter what you assume about my alignment, DP is scummy. However, in only ONE of those scenarios am I scummy, and if he gets me mislynched before he dies, he's still alive, can still try to get someone else lynched later, and there's less townies to fight for a majority. Lynching me first can ONLY benefit scum. He basically says something similar about Medic's lurking, and agrees with my phat post where I outlined the two possibilities (Z/DP/Alan vs Z/DP/JH) Shady, I think you're in danger of not seeing the big picture here. We know DP is 100% mafia. We know JH is 99% mafia. Let's not make the 1% risk and go with DP first. | ||
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
On August 07 2012 00:53 DarthPunk wrote: EBWOP: It is pretty obvious to me that if something that happened to you has also happened to another, you are both town. or the most meta WIFOM ever is going on. It's not obvious to me. Why don't you spell it out for those of us who have 'retarded cases'? I still don't understand why scum me + ange would pull that play of the double mislynch. After one mislynch, wouldn't we be super suspicious? | ||
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
If I understand correctly, he's basically saying that Ange and I targeted both DP and Jingle | ||
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
Hopefully, this should clear me of at least a little suspicion. Now, Jingle, seeing as you're still alive, it would be nice if you played like a decent person again. Now, I really want to look at alan. A few things: of the mordanis voting group, Alan (and dp of course) is the only one who voted jingle. He says he doesn't really care, he'd vote DP. It may seem like he just didn't vote because he was lazy or something (no need). However, the majority was quite slim. I'd like to add this to my suspicions of alan from my 'dual scenario' post, and note that Jingle and alan are still my top scum reads | ||
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
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aRyuujin
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Without me there, I'd say there was 100% of no DP lynch. Why would scum me set fire to DP now? Jingle wouldve been lynched if not for me and ange. Theres no reason to bus DP before mislynching jingle... @gk- seems however well i play, you just have a grudge against me or something. Im starting to get a teensy bit suspicious of you again, but alan is just really scummy and maybe you once got picked on by a guy named aRyuujin so you're taking it out on me. + Show Spoiler + i kid, i kid. But seriously, i could be the best town ever and youd still make up some wifom bullshit Anyway, I'm voting alan. See my big post for the main reasons, as well as myecent follow up ish po ## Vote Alan113 | ||
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aRyuujin
United States5049 Posts
On August 10 2012 04:18 Shady Sands wrote: So after reading through GK's and aRyuu's posts, nothing looks out of order. I read through Alan's defenses one more time as well. One thing that struck me as odd about Alan was his insistence on asking us all to consider scenarios in which he is green, but he never actually added any specifics about those scenarios. Basically, who is the scum if Alan is green? He hasn't mentioned anything about that, which just adds to my scum read on him. well, let's think about it. The only people left would be aRyuujin Shady ange GK Jingle (minus whoever gets NKed) Shady/ange I'd say are pretty much guaranteed town. I know I'm town, and you guys really ought to be looking somewhere else, seeing as without me, Jingle would've been lynched. So GK vs Jingle... | ||
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