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Newbie Mini Mafia XXII - Page 8

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DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
August 06 2012 09:17 GMT
#1098
On August 06 2012 18:07 aRyuujin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2012 17:58 DarthPunk wrote:
@aRyuujin

As far as I can tell I have addressed every case or referred you to read my filter because it is addressed therein. I am going to have to leave the thread for a bit shortly. I am sure there will be alot of posts when I get back which state I am scum whilst providing no evidence. so I have something to look forward too

@everyone else isn't the difference in posting from aRyuujin absolutely INCREDIBLE?


I'd like to note that I've looked through his filter several times. He hasn't addressed

+ Show Spoiler +
On August 06 2012 17:27 aRyuujin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2012 17:13 DarthPunk wrote:
On August 06 2012 17:06 Ange777 wrote:
On August 06 2012 16:57 DarthPunk wrote:
Is there anything else? i fail to see a blatant revelation that explains your position. seems like a weak case to go with the other weak cases to join an increasingly easy bandwagon


You are getting sulky. The easy bandwagon would have been Jingle. When we had the consensus to lynch him, there was no posting at all from town for the entire first half of day 3.


This is what I am talking about. I am getting sulky?? what does that add to the case. you are posting ad nauseum whilst adding nothing to the case that I have not addressed, even though you Implied you would.



Actually, posting ad nauseum would mean that nobody wants to discuss anymore. Clearly, that's not the case. Now, what I'm interested in is why you haven't answered the ~6 questions I posed you, or even referenced that post.
It's actually quite possible that you missed it entirely, seeing as it was the last post on the page before this. However, if you were town, you'd actually be answering them by yourself.

And like Ange said, the only scum motivation in accusing you would be to block Jingle's lynch, seeing as his bandwagon had already basically been set to go. (note that this would require 4 mafia in this game) However, as town players, our job is actually not to lynch town and sow confusion while saving ourselves. Instead, we need to hunt out the scum. Honestly, you're not providing us with anything remotely town motivated to go off of for ages.

And is your reasoning for having a town read on Jingle still that you understand what its like to have a bandwagon?


or
+ Show Spoiler +

On August 06 2012 16:56 aRyuujin wrote:
      Hey GK! Glad to see you're here. The thing about Darkpunk is that rather than it being one big thing confirming that he's scum (like how Zorkmid dropped that bomb), DP's red status' confirmation is made up of many small tells.
Over time, DP has had lots of these small tells, that if we add together, pretty much confirm that he's a scum.
One is his defense of Zork. Contrary to popular belief, rather than just stating that Zork is a lurker, DP tried to find town motives to explain away Zork's slips. At some points, (I think where it simply became too difficult because of all the mistakes Zork was making), DP was just like fuck it, he's a bad townie, but..... let's lynch Mordanis! And when people realized how obviously scummy Zork was, THAT was the point when DP was like nope Zork = lurker. Then he made his supposed "instigating attack" that apparently led to me OMGUSing him. Control F for Zork here, it's quite telling.

The other thing I really want to point out is that rather than advancing town's position, after being accused, DP has pretty much curled into a ball. He didn't even properly address my analysis (no I don't think it's a case), instead doing exactly what I said he would do: Ignoring my conclusions and instead trying to discredit it by taking small parts and acting absurdly.

And it seems that I was ninja'd by Ange, but the thing we need to look for is motives. Not necessarily the actions themselves, but the motives. Why does DP behave the way he does is the question that we need to ask ourselves.

Show nested quote +
On August 06 2012 16:00 goodkarma wrote:
It appears that the Darthpunk lynch is gaining momentum. And now there's side-tangents that include alan too... I'm still against lynching Darthpunk today. Can someone kindly explain to me why he's 100% scum? Ange's arguement against him was summarized as:

On August 06 2012 07:10 Ange777 wrote:1. During the Zork lynch discussion DarthPunk repeatedly soft-defended Zork, pushed Mordanis as lynch candidate and proposed to lynch aRyuujin instead of Zork.
2. He switches votes very conveniently at around the same time when Zork fake claims medic. I believe that scum decided in their QT to concede to the Zork lynch.


1) Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall Darthpunk's "defense" of Zork amounting to he felt Zork was some kind of lurker. And if we were to lynch solely based off that reasoning we should lynch aRyuujin. I don't recall much further "defense" than that, and that seems like a reasonable arguement if he was looking at it solely from the lurker standpoint.

2) I find Darthpunk's claim that he hadn't seen Zork's post before his post FAR MORE BELIEVABLE than that in QT scum were like "let's have Darthpunk change vote and bus Zork TWO MINUTES AFTER he incriminates himself." I'd expect a move like this to be planned out hours ahead of time so that Darthpunk could change his vote way ahead of time and avoid suspicion...

Thanks aRyuujin for your most recent case post. It's a dramatic improvement from earlier . One thing on your case against Darthpunk I'd like to specifically address, though, is your implication that NK'ing Mordanis benefited Darthpunk. Any such discussion of why scum NK'ed a specific person I feel is too much WIFOM to really bring up. I could come up with other realistic reasons why they might have NK'ed Mordanis. The first that comes to mind is they wanted to get someone they were pretty sure wouldn't be medic saved...

If someone could summarize a specific case point that shows Darthpunk's guilt that I haven't discussed here please let me know. I wanted to give Darthpunk a chance to defend himself, as I feel his defense is just as important as what was said in the case against him to get a good read of the situation. But after his defense, I don't feel the evidence is there to say he's a sure scum, especially compared to Jingle. Jingle has been spending his posting time calling us tunneling sheep, which is hardly a compelling arguement -_-

I understand the need for town to stay united, and will coincide my vote with Shady's to secure the lynch for Darth IF IT COMES TO THAT, but I honestly hope it doesn't. I feel we're getting ahead of ourselves. Almost everyone is in agreement that Jingle is scum, so why are we now voting Darth? If there's some compelling arguement for lynching him I've overlooked, please enlighten me.



and @ Darthpunk
If you want us to take you for a townie, you're going to have to act like a townie. All you've really posted is that you feel for Jingle for getting accused and that you're mad at me/i'm an idiot/i'm scum/there's something very funny for accusing you.
What do you think about Alan? Who's the other scum besides myself? Why is it that when I address you, you ignore what I'm saying, and then say that I'm the one ignoring what you're saying? What's the REAL reason why you think Jingle is town? And why are you going to brush this post off with plenty of LOL, ROFL. and LMAO?

Something else I dug up:
+ Show Spoiler +
On August 03 2012 17:29 DarthPunk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 03 2012 17:25 goodkarma wrote:
@Shady, wherever you are: I hope you have good reason to be away from these forums...

We need 6/7 town to get lynch majority... With our current division, I just don't see that happening... I still believe that banding together around Shady was our best chance, and I hope he returns to provide his impressions with the most recently presented cases.


I feel very uneasy about voting Mord. On top of the reasons I've already presented, aRyuujin, my top scum suspect, has also gotten onto that bandwaggon.


If Shady comes back and decides Mord. is still his best choice, then fine. Until then:


b]##unvote
##Vote: Zorkmid


Zorkmid is an obvious scum. I sincerely hope that Darthpunk will change his vote. Even then, I can't help but feel that town is in trouble here. -_-


I will be checking this forum again before the deadline, and will only consider changing my vote to one of the following to achieve a majority lynch: aRyuujin, JinglHells, or Shady's choice (if he ever provides an update post). Good luck all...


Can I just clarify before you leave why you are voting for Zork if Aryuujin is your top scum read. also. SEE waiting around for shady sands to see who to vote for is ridiculous. I am SO GLAD you are going back on that.


Here, we have a discussion where DP is . Word for word, DP says that his(DP's) current behavior is "ridiculous"


This is somewhat offtopic, so I'll keep it in a spoiler, but it's directed at DP

+ Show Spoiler +
On August 06 2012 16:40 DarthPunk wrote:
EBWOP: you also flat out ignore goodkarmas request. have some respect.

Hey man, cool down. You're the only person who's been accused of breaking this:
However, this does not mean that you should try to win by being a jerk to the other players so they all want to quit playing.
, (In my eyes) you've behaved quite rudely after being accused. Hopefully (and chances are), I'm just getting annoyed because of something stupid, and everyone disagrees with me, but still. Relax and chill



Talk a lot while saying little. This seems to be Darthpunk's main form of defense.
[/b]

Ok I fail to see something I have not responded to in those posts. care to summarise concisely the questions i have not answered? dot points preferable.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
August 06 2012 11:09 GMT
#1102
On August 06 2012 18:29 aRyuujin wrote:
Please read the thread, instead of ignoring it and complaining :D

-What do you think about Alan?
-Are Ange and I the scum?
-Why are we better reads than Jingle, etc.?
-Why did you post 5x in a row without any content?
-Do you have a reason besides "I understand what it's like to be accused" for having a town read on Jingle?
-What's your opinion of the passage where you described sheeping Shady as ridiculous?
-Address the 'Jingle is easier than you' discussion
-Why haven't you moved town forward in your last ~30 posts?


-What do you think about Alan?
My position on alan is dependent on the flips of others. He may be scum but at this point everything is so intertwined that I am unsure completely
If You and Ange are not scum I think Alan and/or a whole host of others are sitting back laughing whilst watching townies kill each other. he is along with others potentially scum. we have 1 confirmed town. That is SHADY.

-Are Ange and I the scum?
I think you could very likely be a scum team. yes.

-Why are we better reads than Jingle, etc.?
Because of the way that you have both aggresively tunneled me whilst ignoring my defense and by doing so with rather weak cases. Ange777 has laid traps for myself and jingle etc. Your posting has become very different since being accused and you have only really posted when pursuing my mislynch. there are a plurality of additional reasons in my filter which I have already addressed.

-Why did you post 5x in a row without any content?
This is not a question this is a leading question. i.e. you make a statement and pose it as a question. The answer is however, that I was posting in response to things as I read through the thread. It is easier for me to process information that way it seems. As to why they had no content. They were addressing posts attacking me, this was their content. If they seemed as if they lacked content, this is probably due to the accusations they were addressing lacking content or you being unable or unwilling to see their content.

-Do you have a reason besides "I understand what it's like to be accused" for having a town read on Jingle?
That is not the reason. I have very clearly stated the reason I have a town read on jingle. Jingle has been the victim of similar traps that have been attempted on me. If scum ange layed those traps on myself and jingle my reasoning is that both Jingle and I have to be town.

-What's your opinion of the passage where you described sheeping Shady as ridiculous?
At that point in time I thought it was ridiculous to sheep shady. There were two clear candidates both had cases on them. It was the best play at that time to not wait for (an at that point largely AFK) shady to make a choice and then all sheep him. Many people (including yourself) had not yet been active and it would have been far too easy for scum to hide their votes behind this shady vote. The net knowledge gained would have been less with everyone bandwagoning one candidate. One of the main reasons argued in favour of sheeping shady was that it would prevent a no lynch, which people were certain was going to occur. I knew this would never occur. I was always going to switch my vote to avoid the no lynch. As I have said previously I thought zork MAY be scum but I was CERTAIN mordanis was. Exactly the position of ange with the candidates reversed. I was wrong she was right. It seems as if this is mainly what I am guilty of.
All sheeping would have drastically reduced knowledge and discussion going forth, which would have been anti town.

At this point the situation is drastically different and thus like many others have stated they would put their vote with the confirmed town. It seems you only have a problem with it if I do it.

-Address the 'Jingle is easier than you' discussion
Again? Jingle is almost AFK and a far easier lynch. If you mislynch him and then try to mislynch me it is far more difficult for you then the other way around. Because your townie cred would have reduced following his mislynch. If you blow all your townie cred mislynching me Jingle would still be far easier to get a lynch on considering his current posting.

-Why haven't you moved town forward in your last ~30 posts?
Why haven't you?.......
I am under constant attack. I have explained myself endlessly and yet I still recieve attacks that are just rehashed cases I have already addressed. Also the longer this goes. The bigger the hole you both dig for yourself when I flip green. You may say that me dragging this out is my way of catching the scum.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
August 06 2012 11:23 GMT
#1103
On August 06 2012 18:32 aRyuujin wrote:
Also another one:
Why is obvious agreeing with us? Seeing as your main point about me and Ange being mafia because we accuse you, where does that leave him?


You convinced someone? Isn't that the idea? he originally believed my defense against you. and although the case and thus the defense have not changed, your relentless repetition that I am scum must have swayed him.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
August 06 2012 11:31 GMT
#1105
@ ghost. shady's vote is on jingle. and as his is so is mine for now.

##VOTE: Jinglehell
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
August 06 2012 12:34 GMT
#1108
On August 06 2012 20:54 aRyuujin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2012 20:31 DarthPunk wrote:
@ ghost. shady's vote is on jingle. and as his is so is mine for now.

##VOTE: Jinglehell


If you think I'm scum, vote with your opinions. Don't just blindly donate your vote to Shady, it only helps you slip out of any tight situations you get into as a scum. Why would town DP vote for Jingle, who he believes is town, over me and Ange, who DP is apparently super sure are scum? This sheeping is just an attempt to not have to take responsibility for his vote.


Well obviously there are only two candidates at this point so there is some self-preservation involved.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
August 06 2012 12:42 GMT
#1109
EBWOP: and obviously you want me dead more than Jingle. So I will thwart your plans if possible.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
August 06 2012 13:05 GMT
#1114
I have explained it in the post you quoted above.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
August 06 2012 13:32 GMT
#1117
On August 06 2012 22:27 Ange777 wrote:
@Jingle: I am wearing those hypothetical 1% town Jingle goggles, that's why I am asking you for your reads ... stop complaining about what happened and build a case if you want me to give you a chance.


So you are totally against voting for him when he is 99% scum?
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
August 06 2012 13:32 GMT
#1118
On August 06 2012 22:19 JingleHell wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2012 21:51 Ange777 wrote:
@Shady and goodkarma:

Please reconsider your vote. At the moment neither aRyuujin nor I am willing to concede in a Jingle lynch as we believe that DarthPunk is a more sure scum lynch than a Jingle lynch is.

@Jingle:

If you really want to show your "town side", than play! Give us another read except for DarthPunk, preferably one that includes a solid case and not just a one-liner vote and snippy comments.


Oh, now you want to hear opinions?

I love this absurd dichotomy that's sprung up in your minds recently, where either I'm bad or I'm scum.

Want to hear what happened? I replaced in late, never had a chance to get into stride and was put in an untenable position.

Truly shocking that I've not bothered putting any effort into convincing people. Here's a suggestion. For five minutes, try to be objective. Put on "Hypothetical townie" goggles, and read my posts with all that I've just said in mind. See if it sounds like frustration. You don't have to believe I'm town to try that, just do it and see if it makes as much sense as some of the "cases" against me.

I'm not going to spend a lot of time building a case when everyone will just dismiss it.


They want you to post in order to pull off the lynch on me.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
August 06 2012 13:37 GMT
#1120
On August 06 2012 21:57 aRyuujin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2012 20:09 DarthPunk wrote:

-What do you think about Alan?
My position on alan is dependent on the flips of others. He may be scum but at this point everything is so intertwined that I am unsure completely
If You and Ange are not scum I think Alan and/or a whole host of others are sitting back laughing whilst watching townies kill each other. he is along with others potentially scum. we have 1 confirmed town. That is SHADY.

      Here, he basically says nothing. If his two scum reads aren't scum, then the non town people are scum. You don't say...
Also, "Everything is so intertwined". This makes it seem like his excuse for not contributing is that it's complicated. This may sound hypocritical coming from me, but it's time to buck up and help out if he's town. Not contributing, but sounding like you're saying stuff is a scum move.

-Are Ange and I the scum?
I think you could very likely be a scum team. yes.

      No shit, he says that he "thinks we're likely scum". He's been saying that the whole time. What I wanted to know is if he's finally committing to that answer, rather than just thinking. However, now he seems less certain than before. Establishing a noncommital stance is a typical scum play. Honestly, if he was town, I'd rather see him stick to his guns and write a case against me and Ange. Instead, he's beginning to give himself an exit.

-Why are we better reads than Jingle, etc.?
Because of the way that you have both aggresively tunneled me whilst ignoring my defense and by doing so with rather weak cases. Ange777 has laid traps for myself and jingle etc. Your posting has become very different since being accused and you have only really posted when pursuing my mislynch. there are a plurality of additional reasons in my filter which I have already addressed.

      He says our cases are weak. Yet, he never shows us why. To be honest, all of the stuff we've piled up on him seems fairly strong to me (resulting in me voting him). And his defense has been... lackluster. He hasn't had a true, straight up, post defending himself until this one. And as for my posting. Yes, it's different. I'm hunting scum actively for a bit. Deal with it. Until there are no scum reads that are disproportionately stronger than the one on myself, that's not a problem we need to worry about.

-Why did you post 5x in a row without any content?
This is not a question this is a leading question. i.e. you make a statement and pose it as a question. The answer is however, that I was posting in response to things as I read through the thread. It is easier for me to process information that way it seems. As to why they had no content. They were addressing posts attacking me, this was their content. If they seemed as if they lacked content, this is probably due to the accusations they were addressing lacking content or you being unable or unwilling to see their content.

      That's not what a leading question is. A leading question is a question where I'm trying to get you to confirm the information located in my question. In fact, there's nothing wrong with a leading question. What you're thinking of, and what I sadly used, is a loaded question. Loaded questions are usually fallacious, and yes, this was definitely a bad question. I was just trying to get you to discuss the series of posts you made. And it worked, so whatever.
Now about those posts. Though he says that they addressed contentless posts, what they were replying to were definitely not junk. Just look at the posts. I mean really?

-Do you have a reason besides "I understand what it's like to be accused" for having a town read on Jingle?
That is not the reason. I have very clearly stated the reason I have a town read on jingle. Jingle has been the victim of similar traps that have been attempted on me. If scum ange layed those traps on myself and jingle my reasoning is that both Jingle and I have to be town.

"Jingle has been the victim of the same traps on me" this is TOTALLY different from what I said. TOTALLY. Basically here, he's trying to make his reason sound more legit. He brings in his assumption that Ange and I are 100% scum (note that he still hasn't voted either of us, however)(and that he's still setting up exit strategies) to help defend his bad, scummy move.
To quote Obvious once more:
Darth has a town read on Jingle.
On August 06 2012 16:07 goodkarma wrote:
EBWOP: Jingle has been spending his posting time calling us tunneling sheep, which is hardly a compelling defense -_-

I don't really see a reason to disagree with GK's summary. I'm trying to figure out how he can know Jingle is town without the use of WIFOM.

Something else interesting is he still hasn't addressed the fact that everyone else is pretty much 100% for a town ange (as ange started the attack on zork), even Shady, who he is supposedly sheeping.

-What's your opinion of the passage where you described sheeping Shady as ridiculous?
At that point in time I thought it was ridiculous to sheep shady. There were two clear candidates both had cases on them. It was the best play at that time to not wait for (an at that point largely AFK) shady to make a choice and then all sheep him. Many people (including yourself) had not yet been active and it would have been far too easy for scum to hide their votes behind this shady vote. The net knowledge gained would have been less with everyone bandwagoning one candidate. One of the main reasons argued in favour of sheeping shady was that it would prevent a no lynch, which people were certain was going to occur. I knew this would never occur. I was always going to switch my vote to avoid the no lynch. As I have said previously I thought zork MAY be scum but I was CERTAIN mordanis was. Exactly the position of ange with the candidates reversed. I was wrong she was right. It seems as if this is mainly what I am guilty of.
All sheeping would have drastically reduced knowledge and discussion going forth, which would have been anti town.

At this point the situation is drastically different and thus like many others have stated they would put their vote with the confirmed town. It seems you only have a problem with it if I do it.

This one will be fun. This whole paragraph is fairly applicable to the current situation. I'll be putting my commentary italics.
There were two clear candidates both had cases on them JingleHell and Darthpunk. It was the best play at that time to not wait for (an at that point largely AFK) shady to make a choice and then all sheep himstill isn't. And he hasn't posted for a bit(though everyone has plenty of irl stuff to do, so I'm not blaming him at all). Many people (including yourself) had not yet been active and it would have been far too easy for scum to hide their votes behind this shady voteIsn't that what you're doing now? Hiding behind this shady vote? Also, many haven't posted for a bit, either, like alan, shady, jingle, etc.. The net knowledge gained would have been less with everyone bandwagoning one candidate. how is this different from nowOne of the main reasons argued in favour of sheeping shady was that it would prevent a no lynch, which people were certain was going to occur. I knew this would never occur. I was always going to switch my vote to avoid the no lynch. As I have said previously I thought zork MAY be scum but I was CERTAIN mordanis was. seems exactly like the situation we're in now, tbh. As I have said previously, I think Jingle MAY be scum but I am CERTAIN Darthpunk is. Exactly the position of ange with the candidates reversed. I was wrong she was right. It seems as if this is mainly what I am guilty of.I think he's saying this is the main thing behind the accusations of him being scum. He's wrong, and it's fairly obvious to anyone who reads the thread
All sheeping would have drastically reduced knowledge and discussion going forth, which would have been anti town.I AGREE 100%. WHY DOES THIS NOT APPLY NOW?

-Address the 'Jingle is easier than you' discussion
Again? Jingle is almost AFK and a far easier lynch. If you mislynch him and then try to mislynch me it is far more difficult for you then the other way around. Because your townie cred would have reduced following his mislynch. If you blow all your townie cred mislynching me Jingle would still be far easier to get a lynch on considering his current posting.

We've been working our asses off to get a lynch on you for the last several pages, and you're still not going to be lynched as of now. Do you honestly believe that this dual mislynch strategy makes ANY sense at all? Seems like a half baked explanation trying to get out of his post.

-Why haven't you moved town forward in your last ~30 posts?
Why haven't you?.......
I am under constant attack. I have explained myself endlessly and yet I still recieve attacks that are just rehashed cases I have already addressed. Also the longer this goes. The bigger the hole you both dig for yourself when I flip green. You may say that me dragging this out is my way of catching the scum.

What do you think I've been doing? I posted cases, asked questions, probed, and prodded. Literally all you've done until this post is whine and lash out at the people accusing you, without providing anything truly solid.

So, did you not see any of this in any of the posts previously? Do you just not read the thread?



Why ask me questions if you are going to shit all over the answers with no thought? Seems like you don't really care what the answers are you are determined to lynch me and no amount of rational argument or reason will dissuade you from it. It almost seems as if you weren't asking in good faith, with an open mind. Nope at this point with confirmation bias running rampant, no matter how well reasoned or rational my defense. You will tunnel me until you get your lynch. A massive difference from your 1 page filter that consists the rest of the game.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
August 06 2012 13:39 GMT
#1122
On August 06 2012 22:33 Ange777 wrote:
aRyuujin made another very good case against DarthPunk's defense here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=353315&currentpage=56#1112

If in doubt, go back and read it!

Unfortunately I need to leave now but I'll be back 1-2 hours before deadline.


Sigh. you only think it is a good case against my defense as you want to lynch me. Confirmation bias or scum. either way it was not a good 'case' against my defense.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
August 06 2012 13:47 GMT
#1123
On August 06 2012 22:39 DarthPunk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2012 22:33 Ange777 wrote:
aRyuujin made another very good case against DarthPunk's defense here: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=353315&currentpage=56#1112

If in doubt, go back and read it!

Unfortunately I need to leave now but I'll be back 1-2 hours before deadline.


Sigh. you only think it is a good case against my defense as you want to lynch me. Confirmation bias or scum. either way it was not a good 'case' against my defense.


And by bad case I mean he deliberately ignores everything I say and puts a negative spin on it in a way that he doesn't really have to address anything I have said. You mention this is my first defense post? you have got to be kidding right? I am no longer interested in arguing with you. It is clear you are not interested in the truth but rather will post mountains of rubbish in order to further your agenda.

One thing though. In your post you are very eager to point out that ange777 is confirmed town.
I know what is happening here. If others don't I apologise that my defense was inadequate. HOWEVER. I encourage everyone to read through my filter. hopefully the truth will reveal itself.

If I am mislynched. plz lynch Ange and aRyuujin. PLEASE!
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
August 06 2012 14:52 GMT
#1125
I am far from OMGUS'ing them. they are tunneling me hard Ignoring my arguments entirely. I don;t see the motivation for it unless it is scum Motivation.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
August 06 2012 15:39 GMT
#1134
Ok It is 1.30am my time. I need to sleep. I have class in 6.5 hours. my defense of the case against me is pretty clearly in my filter. Ange777 and aRyuujin won't be dissuaded. no matter what I say, or how I defend myself. So that leaves the rest of you, minus jingle who I doubt would vote for himself. So up to Obvious really. I can understand if you need to change your vote to me to avoid a no lynch. No hard feelings. But when I flip green please take a close look at Ange777 and aRyuujin in particular.

ok,

See ya guys. Hope I live but if I don't It was nice to play with you guys! <3
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
August 06 2012 15:46 GMT
#1136
OK I just saw the question from shady. i'll find the post it is covered in.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
August 06 2012 15:50 GMT
#1137
On August 06 2012 20:09 DarthPunk wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 06 2012 18:29 aRyuujin wrote:
Please read the thread, instead of ignoring it and complaining :D

-What do you think about Alan?
-Are Ange and I the scum?
-Why are we better reads than Jingle, etc.?
-Why did you post 5x in a row without any content?
-Do you have a reason besides "I understand what it's like to be accused" for having a town read on Jingle?
-What's your opinion of the passage where you described sheeping Shady as ridiculous?
-Address the 'Jingle is easier than you' discussion
-Why haven't you moved town forward in your last ~30 posts?


-What do you think about Alan?
My position on alan is dependent on the flips of others. He may be scum but at this point everything is so intertwined that I am unsure completely
If You and Ange are not scum I think Alan and/or a whole host of others are sitting back laughing whilst watching townies kill each other. he is along with others potentially scum. we have 1 confirmed town. That is SHADY.

-Are Ange and I the scum?
I think you could very likely be a scum team. yes.

-Why are we better reads than Jingle, etc.?
Because of the way that you have both aggresively tunneled me whilst ignoring my defense and by doing so with rather weak cases. Ange777 has laid traps for myself and jingle etc. Your posting has become very different since being accused and you have only really posted when pursuing my mislynch. there are a plurality of additional reasons in my filter which I have already addressed.

-Why did you post 5x in a row without any content?
This is not a question this is a leading question. i.e. you make a statement and pose it as a question. The answer is however, that I was posting in response to things as I read through the thread. It is easier for me to process information that way it seems. As to why they had no content. They were addressing posts attacking me, this was their content. If they seemed as if they lacked content, this is probably due to the accusations they were addressing lacking content or you being unable or unwilling to see their content.

-Do you have a reason besides "I understand what it's like to be accused" for having a town read on Jingle?
That is not the reason. I have very clearly stated the reason I have a town read on jingle. Jingle has been the victim of similar traps that have been attempted on me. If scum ange layed those traps on myself and jingle my reasoning is that both Jingle and I have to be town.

-What's your opinion of the passage where you described sheeping Shady as ridiculous?
At that point in time I thought it was ridiculous to sheep shady. There were two clear candidates both had cases on them. It was the best play at that time to not wait for (an at that point largely AFK) shady to make a choice and then all sheep him. Many people (including yourself) had not yet been active and it would have been far too easy for scum to hide their votes behind this shady vote. The net knowledge gained would have been less with everyone bandwagoning one candidate. One of the main reasons argued in favour of sheeping shady was that it would prevent a no lynch, which people were certain was going to occur. I knew this would never occur. I was always going to switch my vote to avoid the no lynch. As I have said previously I thought zork MAY be scum but I was CERTAIN mordanis was. Exactly the position of ange with the candidates reversed. I was wrong she was right. It seems as if this is mainly what I am guilty of.
All sheeping would have drastically reduced knowledge and discussion going forth, which would have been anti town.

At this point the situation is drastically different and thus like many others have stated they would put their vote with the confirmed town. It seems you only have a problem with it if I do it.

-Address the 'Jingle is easier than you' discussion
Again? Jingle is almost AFK and a far easier lynch. If you mislynch him and then try to mislynch me it is far more difficult for you then the other way around. Because your townie cred would have reduced following his mislynch. If you blow all your townie cred mislynching me Jingle would still be far easier to get a lynch on considering his current posting.

-Why haven't you moved town forward in your last ~30 posts?
Why haven't you?.......
I am under constant attack. I have explained myself endlessly and yet I still recieve attacks that are just rehashed cases I have already addressed. Also the longer this goes. The bigger the hole you both dig for yourself when I flip green. You may say that me dragging this out is my way of catching the scum.


The post in which I explain why I think jingle is town is in here.
I don't see why it is difficult for you to believe. anyway regardless of who flips green out of jingle and I. can someone please lynch the ange train. then we have this in the bag.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
August 06 2012 15:52 GMT
#1138
If anyone needs some clarity or finds that reasoning difficult to believe. Please ask me quickly as I really need to sleep.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
August 06 2012 15:53 GMT
#1140
EBWOP: It is pretty obvious to me that if something that happened to you has also happened to another, you are both town. or the most meta WIFOM ever is going on.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
August 06 2012 16:04 GMT
#1145
On August 07 2012 00:52 Shady Sands wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2012 00:50 DarthPunk wrote:
On August 06 2012 20:09 DarthPunk wrote:
On August 06 2012 18:29 aRyuujin wrote:
Please read the thread, instead of ignoring it and complaining :D

-What do you think about Alan?
-Are Ange and I the scum?
-Why are we better reads than Jingle, etc.?
-Why did you post 5x in a row without any content?
-Do you have a reason besides "I understand what it's like to be accused" for having a town read on Jingle?
-What's your opinion of the passage where you described sheeping Shady as ridiculous?
-Address the 'Jingle is easier than you' discussion
-Why haven't you moved town forward in your last ~30 posts?


-What do you think about Alan?
My position on alan is dependent on the flips of others. He may be scum but at this point everything is so intertwined that I am unsure completely
If You and Ange are not scum I think Alan and/or a whole host of others are sitting back laughing whilst watching townies kill each other. he is along with others potentially scum. we have 1 confirmed town. That is SHADY.

-Are Ange and I the scum?
I think you could very likely be a scum team. yes.

-Why are we better reads than Jingle, etc.?
Because of the way that you have both aggresively tunneled me whilst ignoring my defense and by doing so with rather weak cases. Ange777 has laid traps for myself and jingle etc. Your posting has become very different since being accused and you have only really posted when pursuing my mislynch. there are a plurality of additional reasons in my filter which I have already addressed.

-Why did you post 5x in a row without any content?
This is not a question this is a leading question. i.e. you make a statement and pose it as a question. The answer is however, that I was posting in response to things as I read through the thread. It is easier for me to process information that way it seems. As to why they had no content. They were addressing posts attacking me, this was their content. If they seemed as if they lacked content, this is probably due to the accusations they were addressing lacking content or you being unable or unwilling to see their content.

-Do you have a reason besides "I understand what it's like to be accused" for having a town read on Jingle?
That is not the reason. I have very clearly stated the reason I have a town read on jingle. Jingle has been the victim of similar traps that have been attempted on me. If scum ange layed those traps on myself and jingle my reasoning is that both Jingle and I have to be town.

-What's your opinion of the passage where you described sheeping Shady as ridiculous?
At that point in time I thought it was ridiculous to sheep shady. There were two clear candidates both had cases on them. It was the best play at that time to not wait for (an at that point largely AFK) shady to make a choice and then all sheep him. Many people (including yourself) had not yet been active and it would have been far too easy for scum to hide their votes behind this shady vote. The net knowledge gained would have been less with everyone bandwagoning one candidate. One of the main reasons argued in favour of sheeping shady was that it would prevent a no lynch, which people were certain was going to occur. I knew this would never occur. I was always going to switch my vote to avoid the no lynch. As I have said previously I thought zork MAY be scum but I was CERTAIN mordanis was. Exactly the position of ange with the candidates reversed. I was wrong she was right. It seems as if this is mainly what I am guilty of.
All sheeping would have drastically reduced knowledge and discussion going forth, which would have been anti town.

At this point the situation is drastically different and thus like many others have stated they would put their vote with the confirmed town. It seems you only have a problem with it if I do it.

-Address the 'Jingle is easier than you' discussion
Again? Jingle is almost AFK and a far easier lynch. If you mislynch him and then try to mislynch me it is far more difficult for you then the other way around. Because your townie cred would have reduced following his mislynch. If you blow all your townie cred mislynching me Jingle would still be far easier to get a lynch on considering his current posting.

-Why haven't you moved town forward in your last ~30 posts?
Why haven't you?.......
I am under constant attack. I have explained myself endlessly and yet I still recieve attacks that are just rehashed cases I have already addressed. Also the longer this goes. The bigger the hole you both dig for yourself when I flip green. You may say that me dragging this out is my way of catching the scum.


The post in which I explain why I think jingle is town is in here.
I don't see why it is difficult for you to believe. anyway regardless of who flips green out of jingle and I. can someone please lynch the ange train. then we have this in the bag.


You say in your post above two things to justify your Jingle town read:

1) Jingle is AFK and an easy lynch
2) Jingle is the victim of similar traps that have been placed on you.

Point 1 doesn't make sense. Point 2 is too general. What traps have been placed on Jingle AND you?


Point to is the relevant point to this situation I think.
Ange777 tried to lay a trap on jingle the first day Jingle called her on it and that was that was the beginning of their argument.
Ange777 then tried to connect jingle and zork BEFORE ZORK FLIPPED RED due to jingle attacking ange777. even though this started hours before hand this was trap 2
At this same time. Ange kept trying to bait reasons why I thought her case was weaker than mine. She then turns this around and calls me out for soft defending zork. even though she initiated the discussion.
Trap 1
She then several times today in this thread asked me leading questions and then immediately takes the answers SHE SOUGHT FOR and used them as EVIDENCE. trap trap trap.

the same pattern between myself and jingle of setting up predictable responses to leading questions and then using the answers as EVIDENCE. jingle called her out on it immediately. I was stupid enough to fall for it. But if I am being trapped by ange777 and jingle is. then it stands to reason that we are both town.

I am tired and it may not have come out well. but this is all in my filter. which is why I wanted people to read it before making claims that have been covered at length.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
DarthPunk
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia10857 Posts
August 06 2012 16:05 GMT
#1146
On August 07 2012 01:04 JingleHell wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2012 00:50 DarthPunk wrote:
On August 06 2012 20:09 DarthPunk wrote:
On August 06 2012 18:29 aRyuujin wrote:
Please read the thread, instead of ignoring it and complaining :D

-What do you think about Alan?
-Are Ange and I the scum?
-Why are we better reads than Jingle, etc.?
-Why did you post 5x in a row without any content?
-Do you have a reason besides "I understand what it's like to be accused" for having a town read on Jingle?
-What's your opinion of the passage where you described sheeping Shady as ridiculous?
-Address the 'Jingle is easier than you' discussion
-Why haven't you moved town forward in your last ~30 posts?


-What do you think about Alan?
My position on alan is dependent on the flips of others. He may be scum but at this point everything is so intertwined that I am unsure completely
If You and Ange are not scum I think Alan and/or a whole host of others are sitting back laughing whilst watching townies kill each other. he is along with others potentially scum. we have 1 confirmed town. That is SHADY.

-Are Ange and I the scum?
I think you could very likely be a scum team. yes.

-Why are we better reads than Jingle, etc.?
Because of the way that you have both aggresively tunneled me whilst ignoring my defense and by doing so with rather weak cases. Ange777 has laid traps for myself and jingle etc. Your posting has become very different since being accused and you have only really posted when pursuing my mislynch. there are a plurality of additional reasons in my filter which I have already addressed.

-Why did you post 5x in a row without any content?
This is not a question this is a leading question. i.e. you make a statement and pose it as a question. The answer is however, that I was posting in response to things as I read through the thread. It is easier for me to process information that way it seems. As to why they had no content. They were addressing posts attacking me, this was their content. If they seemed as if they lacked content, this is probably due to the accusations they were addressing lacking content or you being unable or unwilling to see their content.

-Do you have a reason besides "I understand what it's like to be accused" for having a town read on Jingle?
That is not the reason. I have very clearly stated the reason I have a town read on jingle. Jingle has been the victim of similar traps that have been attempted on me. If scum ange layed those traps on myself and jingle my reasoning is that both Jingle and I have to be town.

-What's your opinion of the passage where you described sheeping Shady as ridiculous?
At that point in time I thought it was ridiculous to sheep shady. There were two clear candidates both had cases on them. It was the best play at that time to not wait for (an at that point largely AFK) shady to make a choice and then all sheep him. Many people (including yourself) had not yet been active and it would have been far too easy for scum to hide their votes behind this shady vote. The net knowledge gained would have been less with everyone bandwagoning one candidate. One of the main reasons argued in favour of sheeping shady was that it would prevent a no lynch, which people were certain was going to occur. I knew this would never occur. I was always going to switch my vote to avoid the no lynch. As I have said previously I thought zork MAY be scum but I was CERTAIN mordanis was. Exactly the position of ange with the candidates reversed. I was wrong she was right. It seems as if this is mainly what I am guilty of.
All sheeping would have drastically reduced knowledge and discussion going forth, which would have been anti town.

At this point the situation is drastically different and thus like many others have stated they would put their vote with the confirmed town. It seems you only have a problem with it if I do it.

-Address the 'Jingle is easier than you' discussion
Again? Jingle is almost AFK and a far easier lynch. If you mislynch him and then try to mislynch me it is far more difficult for you then the other way around. Because your townie cred would have reduced following his mislynch. If you blow all your townie cred mislynching me Jingle would still be far easier to get a lynch on considering his current posting.

-Why haven't you moved town forward in your last ~30 posts?
Why haven't you?.......
I am under constant attack. I have explained myself endlessly and yet I still recieve attacks that are just rehashed cases I have already addressed. Also the longer this goes. The bigger the hole you both dig for yourself when I flip green. You may say that me dragging this out is my way of catching the scum.


The post in which I explain why I think jingle is town is in here.
I don't see why it is difficult for you to believe. anyway regardless of who flips green out of jingle and I. can someone please lynch the ange train. then we have this in the bag.


Huge scum slip, for anyone who missed it:

"regardless of who flips green out of jingle and I".

He's been arguing that we're both town, so how does that statement make sense?


One of us will be lynched. therefore one of us will flip green. Honestly.
"If I wanted your opinion, I'd have told you what it was."
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