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On August 05 2012 16:05 goodkarma wrote:
@Darthpunk:
I definitely find it plausible you were unaware of Zork's incriminating post, since your vote change and his post were only 2 minutes apart. That being said, there are other explanations for this behavior... For now I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt on this point.
As for your defense of Jingle, it may not have been optimal for a scum to stick his neck out and vote for his own candidate in the way that Jingle has. However, for what it's worth, Zork did pretty much the same thing.
The case against Jingle isn't just about voting patterns, but also about his actions. I would be interested to hear your thoughts on some of the other scum reads on Jingle described by Shady, Ange, and myself. There's more to it than that he proposed his own candidate and voted for him.
@Goodkarma: The post you are referencing is not my stance on the Jingle case as a whole but a reply to Ange777 on why I could not find a scum motive behind jingles actions (this is during day 2 not taking account the further cases against him). I am really sorry but I have gotten really behind on my reading for University and so I will probably not be finished with it until later tonight. I am really sorry but I will certainly be contributing more once I am done.
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On August 05 2012 17:19 aRyuujin wrote:
On Darthpunk:
like others have noted, that 'breadcrumb' by zork could easily have been just a way to give DP an excuse to seem anti zork. Note how previously, he was reluctant on voting zork, and finally changed when he saw there was no point in not doing so. This is a typical scum move, just trying to blend in with the other townies and going with the bandwagon. In fact, at one point he even calls zork a bad player (presumably for pulling the crappy breadcrumb stunt). This falls in sync with DP's other actions regarding the mordanis vs zork swap.
Have you even read my filter? I have been calling zork a bad player since he was first ever mentioned. I did not see the breadcrumb until after I posted, because it was posted as I wrote the post switching to zork. If I was using the breadcrumb as some sort of justification for swapping why did the post in which I swapped make no mention of it?
I said, as soon as it became clear that it was between zork and mord for the lynch that I would alter my vote in order to avoid a mislynch. At that point it was 5v5 and with GK pushing for a no lynch i consolidated onto zorkmid.
Even though I thought zork was suspicious, I was certain that Mord was scum. I was wrong. But i still pushed the lynch that I thought would most likely hit scum. In fact, my position was almost the same as ange's except I was wrong and he was right. If that had been reversed it would be ange in the position that I am in now. I had a read wrong. I thought that Zork was just a bad town player, because I assumed scum actions would be less haphazard and more thought out. I saw scum motive in Mordanis' behaviour and it turns out I was wrong as well. Perhaps it was confirmation bias. But many of you shared suspicions of mordanis actions during both day 1 and 2.
When I originally thought about zork. I questioned how scum could make such silly mistakes and be so blatantly bad. This is the reason I thought he may be town. Scum have the ability to communicate, they can aid each other in their posting etc. and are therefore less likely to make the flagrant errors zorkmid did. But now that I know zork was scum my perspective on certain things has been altered. It is very possible zork was a bus because scum were so far ahead at that point in the game. If he was a bus? with the cases people are making right now? we are screwed.
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In response to ange777
On August 05 2012 05:58 Ange777 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 12:57 DarthPunk wrote:
on zorkmid
There is a case on Zork. I just feel like it is weaker than the case on Mordanis. Add that to the fact that mord is once again ad hearing to his Modus Operandi. He says the case is weaker. No reasons. When I ask him for his reasoning: Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 18:40 DarthPunk wrote:Ok my analysis - ignoring the scum slip which I will get to later. Zork is playing really badly. He is playing really badly as town OR as scum. He has been confused more than once as to what is happening in the game, who he has suspicions on etc. On July 31 2012 22:02 Zorkmid wrote:
I honestly just forgot about SS, but your accusation has led me to go back through his filter. I've noticed that he has never addressed my accusation about him. On August 03 2012 00:17 Zorkmid wrote:On August 03 2012 00:00 DarthPunk wrote:
@ ange777.
The zork scumslip combined with his lurky posting habits are certainly cause for suspicion. I don't like his explanation for the statement. He is saying that he looks at certain posts through different roles but does not actually explain the slip at all. What was he trying to say there? It was WIFOM pure and simple. He has not answered the case on him adequately and he has not provided much in the way of cases. What are you talking about? I honestly can't see how one person, let alone two people would see this as a slip. Let me walk you through what I assumed to be pretty straight forward logic. I believe that no smart green or blue would have made the post that Prom did....but he did, hence I thought that he may be red. I'm speculating on the meaning of Prom's actions based on what I would do, nothing more, nothing less. I think that most people followed this logic just fine, as it contributed to Prom's mis-lynch. On August 03 2012 00:00 DarthPunk wrote:The problem with both Zorkmid and aRyuujin is that there is so little to actually make a read from. I don't post as often as many players, but at least what I do post has some thought behind it. Which makes me tend to believe him when he says that he is not paying attention to the thread because of IRL commitments. Because why? what are the scum motivations behind his posts? This is still bad play and hurts town. As I said earlier It isn't easy to get a scum read when there has been so little activity from him. His posts make no sense as either scum or town. He is Lurking though. If we get to LYLO and we have nothing to go off in terms of reads that is a major liability. on the scum slip. @ange777 I don't think your logic is as iron clad as you believe. On July 31 2012 22:46 Zorkmid wrote:
I also think that your "relief post" is strange. It's sort of WIFOM, but I don't think that as a green or blue I would ever post something like that. It's just yelling out "I'm A TOWNIE huehuehue". I wouldn't post it because it reeks of redness What I think he is trying to say is this. He thinks saying this is scummy. No town player would need to say this, he is town so he wouldn't say it. It is WIFOM and speculation and is written poorly. (which I hate) yet can't see a scum motivation or plan for this. It is possible that he is scum and that this is the evidence. It is also possible that he is bad at explaining himself, a poor writer and you are reading too much into this. Your entire case is based around reading a few statements a certain way, and thus seems to be weaker than my case on mordanis and weaker than your case on mordanis (that you seem to have dropped off the face of the earth). If it comes to a no lynch situation I will be willing to change my vote. (as everyone should be) but at this time the cases on Mordanis are far stronger. If people are set on lynching lurky players aRyuujin is a stronger lynch IMO. He has less than a one page filter he votes Golbat day 1. went AFK for 2 cycles comes back and puts a vote on mord that just echos my position and then leaves again. I wish we still had a Vig cause aRyuujin has been and will increasingly become a serious liability. A huge soft defense on Zork. DarthPunk explains that everything I believe makes Zork scummy can be explained as bad town play. Therefore there would be no evidence for lynching Zork and instead we should just lynch aRyuujin if we were after a lurker. When I again push DarthPunk for more reasons on why he thinks Zork is town he states: Show nested quote +On August 03 2012 20:01 DarthPunk wrote:When I first saw it last night I saw it the same way that you do, but then I read this. On August 03 2012 00:17 Zorkmid wrote:
I believe that no smart green or blue would have made the post that Prom did....but he did, hence I thought that he may be red. I'm speculating on the meaning of Prom's actions based on what I would do, nothing more, nothing less.
This whilst far from enough to convince me of his innocence, IS a plausible explanation of his slip. I am not comfortable with risking a mislynch on a player based off reading one sentence a certain way when there is a plausible explanation which can cause it to be looked at in a different way. Remember the last 'scumslip' in this game. With golbat? I don't want a repeat of that. So I need more than the perceived Scumslip to go off on Zorkmid. -snip- as I stated previously I can't see any logical motivation to his posting. Although I don't see how having little if any defense at all on a case against him proves his motive one way or another. If he wrote a disproportionate amount in his defense and on closer inspection it contained nothing of substance that would give me a definite scum vibe. but no defense at all? I can't see that helping scum OR town. If we are going to lynch a lurker which seems to be the other main argument against Zorkmid I would rather lynch the player with a 1 page filter than the one with a 3 page filter. As for the thing with jingle. I will need to read through it again.
You specifically asked me to state the reasons I thought the case on zork was weaker than the case on mordanis.
You are now calling my reasoning behind why the case on zork was weaker that you asked for as a huge soft defense on zork WTF? I answered a question you asked as transparently as possible and you are now delivering that answer without context as me defending a scum. and therefore I should be lynched.
I admitted there was a case on zork/zork was suspicious. I thought it was weaker than my case on mord because I believed he was just as likely to be a bad townie as a bad scum. And I was 100% certain that mord was scum. You are now presenting my answers on why I thought Zork was a weaker case, as me defending scum zork. Right.
On August 05 2012 05:58 Ange777 wrote:
He explains that he now believes me scummy and that my replys were disproportinate. And does not explain what exactly made him change his mind. He further states that he can't see any kind of scum motivation for a scum Jingle to tunnel me and discredit me when I am pushing the case on scum Zork. But he was able to see so much town motivation for Zork's play to defend him over and over again. And again he mentions that I am trying to get a lurker lynched while I have repeatedly said that my main reason for lynching Zork is not his semi-lurking.
Jingle started making a case on you hours before your case on zork. Your main argument against Jingle was that he was chainsaw defending zork. The reason I found this scummy? you seemed to be DESPERATE to try and establish a link between zork and Jingle that wasn't there and quite obviously wasn't there.
I have already posted on the motivation isssue. I would say check my filter, but it is obvious no one is doing that. So here it is:
On August 05 2012 11:47 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2012 05:58 Ange777 wrote:
He (myself) further states that he can't see any kind of scum motivation for a scum Jingle to tunnel me and discredit me when I am pushing the case on scum Zork. Show nested quote +On August 05 2012 05:49 JingleHell wrote:
By the way, since we're kinda up to our neck in WIFOM right now regarding the "case" on me anyways...
Why the hell would I, if I was scum, come into the thread taking some convoluted route of being suspicious of people who weren't under fire? I could have easily taken the easy way out, piled onto Mordanis, and played the "unbiased outsider" card people were handing me to agree with the case against him?
If you think that makes sense from the hypothetical scum me viewpoint, I think I'm going to take it as an insult. This is part of the reason the Jingle case does not make sense to me. When he first came to the thread people were even talking about everyone sheeping his vote (obvious). If he was scum I see no rational in his play. He could have just quietly jumped on a bandwagon and consolidated the goodwill that everyone was showing him when he first joined. Instead he disregards staying alive and makes his own reads, own case and starts pressuring those people. To me this is town behaviour and would be retarded as scum. I don't get why everyone thinks that all scum in the game were forming a counter wagon to zork. He was a bad player I think everyone can agree on that. I don't know why people think that scum would go all in in order to save someone whom was obviously a liability. That is largely WIFOM though, which I dislike.
read that.
On August 05 2012 05:58 Ange777 wrote:
The timing is so close that I could say that scum discussed their situation in the scum QT and decided to concede in the Zork lynch. Why would DarthPunk otherwise switch his vote? There was still a lot of time for him to potentially convince others to vote for Mordanis. This is no last minute vote switch just to ensure that there is a majority at the deadline. And it's not like he was heading to bed anyway and needed to put the vote on Zork before leaving as he was still awake an hour later.
Posted on this also:
On August 05 2012 11:27 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2012 05:21 Mordanis wrote:
DP: Why did you change your vote from someone you've been suspicious of literally all game to someone you've only defended, in the middle of a tied vote situation, for the most vague reason possible.
I said I would. I think it was to Ange in the second part of day 2. I was always willing to change my vote to avoid a no lynch. at that point in time I had every intention of going to sleep and didn't want to leave it in the hands of others. Would I rather people to have changed their votes to you at that time 100% yes. But I didn't see that happening and some were even putting forward the idea of a no lynch which i was 100% against. So I tried to consolidate the vote onto one candidate. I am not sure others would have switched off mord had zork not made his medic claim. Anyway that was my thoughts behind it.
Honestly I don't see what else there is to say. There is a fundamental lack of a case present in your case.
What I will say is this. I am very fucking suspicious of you right now.
You seem to have been desperate to link jingle hell to your zorkmid case even though his case on you began hours earlier. You asked me several times to state why I felt the Zork case was weaker, and are now using all those answers you dug for yesterday in order to build a case that isn't there. It seems as if you 100% KNEW that zork would flip red. And then desperately tried to manufacture connections to him wherever you could. I can 100% see a scum motivation for this you bussed zork and not only gained 'confirmed town' status but have also set up 2 mislynches.
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On August 05 2012 18:45 Ange777 wrote:
A wise man once said: When you are ahead, get more ahead. Why bus their own team member when scum could have easily get a mislynch on another townie: Mordanis? Votes were stuck evenly for quite a long time.
Anyway, I want to hear your scum reads. I have a feeling you are accusing me of bussing Zork?
What? you had suspicions that that is where I was going before I even accused you? Is this because it is the one thing you are afraid of people thinking?
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EPWOP: They were far ahead. Zork was inactive and not contributing, had suspicions raised against him several times. It would be a smart play to trade the most obvious member of their scum team for lots of town credit and 2 further mislynches (which you have prepared beforehand.) That is getting further ahead. That is winning the game.
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On August 05 2012 18:26 alan133 wrote:@DarthPunkThe conclusion I made above convinced me DarthPunk is the potential last scum, given that no bussing occurred. I went through his huge filter and was hoping to find one slip that can nail him, and have yet to find anything substantial. His blatant defences on Zorkmid is definitely scum motivated, and I know I also "defended" zorkmid, I hope you all see that I have been consistent with defending people who I thought was being called out for the wrong reasons. I would like to put my vote on VOTE## JingleHell, and FOS## DarthPunk. I believe we got this in the bag 
I didn't "defend" zork. In fact I stated several times to the very person who is accusing me in the very posts he is quoting (I know, right) that I thought he was suspicious and that there certainly was a case against him. Then when prompted I discussed my thoughts on why he was a weaker lynch than Mord. It seems people are very interested to perpetuating this myth.
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EBWOP: It seems that the entire 'Case' against me Is believing my own case was stronger than someone else's case and then being wrong about it.
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On August 05 2012 20:09 Ange777 wrote:
Yes, I asked you why you believe the Zork case to be weaker. The only explanation you were offering was he might just be a bad townie. You were not even convinced of his bad town status yourself, you were only giving him the benefit of doubt. This of course will look like a huge soft defense after a red flip.
Yes I believed he may just be a bad town. I also believed he could be a bad scum. However I was 100% convinced that mord was scum. So I followed my own case I had made over several days and that I was 100% sure of. Rather than switch to a case I was 50/50 on until it was evident that there would be a no lynch if I did not switch. (which I had stated previously to you I would do, so why is it so surprising that I carried through on my word?)
Is that a problem?
On August 05 2012 20:09 Ange777 wrote:
This of course will look like a huge soft defense after a red flip.
Except the 'soft defense' you are speaking of is entirely of your own making through asking me for my thought processes behind not voting your way. You obviously were aware of how the questions you asked would cause me to look when zork flipped red and thus proceeded to lead me into a trap that I was blissfully unaware of until now.
On August 05 2012 20:09 Ange777 wrote:
You proceed to say that I tried and still am trying to link Zork with Jingle. While I agree that he first caught my eye due to his behaviour towards Zork (not commenting on Zork at all etc)
He did not catch your eye because of zork. Why are you lying? the situation between yourself and jingle started BEFORE YOUR CASE ON ZORK
Originally I thought it was just an OMGUS against Jingle. I later found the case on jingle suspicious because you were trying to link someone who had cast suspicion on you BEFORE YOUR CASE ON ZORK to Zork when the link obviously wasn't there at that time.
On August 05 2012 20:09 Ange777 wrote:
Regarding the last past: Yes, I knew that Zork would flip red because I saw the scumslip which everyone else failed to see. You say that you see a scum motivation for me to make the case against Zork but you are not willing to give me any benefit of doubt (which you were so happy to give to Zork) that I might have just saw the scumslip, be convinced of Zork's scum-alignment by it and therefore started the case? Instead you claim that me making the Zork case was 100% scum motivation?
You knew zork would flip red based on a scumslip you had ignored for an entire day and even quoted when unvoting him to join the prom bandwagon? A scum slip that still could have very easily come from a bad town?
If zork was a bus then scum are in a FAR better position now than if we had mislynched mordanis. They have set up consecutive lynches into the future. They have sewn this game up.
I see a scum motivation for you. I did not see any motivation for zorks blatantly bad play. Until now.
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Ok I am going to bed now. It will be nice not having to post until 5 am for once. lol.
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On August 05 2012 21:00 Ange777 wrote:
I am not lying. The situation with Jingle might have started earlier. But everyone makes bad cases from time to time. That's why I didn't give it that much thought when Jingle first started to accuse me. I only became really suspicious of him when he continued to accuse me (without good reason), voted for me and refused to even acknowledge the fact that there were cases against other people as well.
OK so what you are saying is that jingle predicted ahead of time that you would make a case on zork and then began tunnelling you ahead of time in order to save his scum buddy? Is that how jingle and zork are linked?
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damn thread. always distracting me from sleeping. 
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i really have to sleep. I will read through and respond tomorrow.
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One thing before I leave. You say you had no way of knowing how I would respond? you knew I thought the case was weaker so you knew I would respond with something other than zork is 100% scum. Either way you were baiting out ammunition to mislynch me with. If I had stated zork is 100% town would i have looked just as bad if not worse?
Why are you saying that you are sheeping mords case? are you trying to make it seem as if it was a confirmed towns error when you mislynch me? the whole reason there is a case is from what you baited from me. Why ask for my opinion if you were confirmed in your mind that zork was 100% town? I was obviously stupid enough to have an open and transparent discussion with you over my thoughts in good faith. And you are now using that to say I was defending him (you knew i wouldn't be screaming he was scum or I would have voted for him) and now you are distancing yourself from my mislynch by saying you are sheeping a dead town.
Your excuse on missing the slip the first time is the weakest excuse ever..You had a vote on zork but you were only analysing him as if he were town? wtf? do i seem stupid to you? OK going to bed. won;t be around for 12 hours.
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On August 06 2012 07:10 Ange777 wrote:So if you have been avidly following my conversation with DarthPunk you will probably have realized we don't really see eye to eye. Now I am going to give him another reason to disagree with me. I am proposing to lynch DarthPunk first instead of Jingle.You might think that it does seem like an aweful OMGUS vote after I have been vividly arguing with DarthPunk but OMGUS isn't about WHO you vote, it's about HOW you vote them. A vote is only OMGUS if you're voting them BECAUSE they voted you. If you vote them for a well-thought-out reason, even if they also voted you, then it's not OMGUS.
Let's first go through the reasons why I wanted to vote him anyway: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=353315¤tpage=48#9451. During the Zork lynch discussion DarthPunk repeatedly soft-defended Zork, pushed Mordanis as lynch candidate and proposed to lynch aRyuujin instead of Zork.
2. He switches votes very conveniently at around the same time when Zork fake claims medic. I believe that scum decided in their QT to concede to the Zork lynch. Instead of really defending himself against my accusations DarthPunk makes a huge WIFOM explanation and decides to paint me scummy by saying I set him up with a trap. He denies me any kind of town motivation for pointing out Zork's scumslip. Yet he was happy to give Zork the benefit of doubt until last minute even though many people pointed out his scum behaviour. I see a clear scum motivation for his behaviour:
1. Save Zork and mislynch Mordanis (or aRyuujin at least) instead
2. When there is no way to save Zork, switch the vote before Zork's claim to get a bit of town cred
3. Discredit me as I am the most active power behind his lynch and mislynch me insteadWith him being called out as scum by several people DarthPunk is just flailing around desperately trying to shift the attention to someone, anyone besides himself. He didn't even give us any other reads besides me. I can only repeat it: This is no pro town play! DarthPunk, I'd really like to congratulate you for writing the best case on yourself -> your own filter!So why lynch DarthPunk before Jingle? After all this discussion I am even more convinced of him being scum than I am of Jingle. I made the case on Jingle because there was no town motivation for his awful play. If he isn't just simply bad he must be scum. However this case against DarthPunk is based on his clear scum motivation and not based on the lack of town motivation. To make it clear: If I am 99% convinced that Jingle is scum, than I am 100% convinced that DarthPunk is scum.In my opinion we can not let him get away with this! ##Unvote
##Vote DarthPunk
OK all 3 of those points I have covered already. If you are refusing to see the reasoning behind it. Now you are saying that because I did not present cases that you asked for I am scum? I said I would be out of the thread for 12 hours as I was sleeping. So you ask me a question after i have said that and use my lack of response that you were aware of as I said I was sleeping so now there is no motivation for jingles play? you have said that there was scum motivation for jingles play for the past 2 days and now there is no motivation? You realise that was my issue with the jingle case right?
1. if not for you baiting me. I would NEVER have said anything in order to 'save zork'
2. I did not see zorks claim. I was simply fulfilling my promise to stop a no lynch.
3. I know I am town. So if as town I am put into a situation where I was clearly trapped. Then I am obviously going to come after that person.
addendum: So now that I know what you are up to I will say this. TOWN: when I flip green can you please do something about this guy. I don't mind dying as long as it helps us win the game.
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On August 06 2012 07:40 Obvious.660 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 07:31 DarthPunk wrote:On August 06 2012 07:10 Ange777 wrote:So if you have been avidly following my conversation with DarthPunk you will probably have realized we don't really see eye to eye. Now I am going to give him another reason to disagree with me. I am proposing to lynch DarthPunk first instead of Jingle.You might think that it does seem like an aweful OMGUS vote after I have been vividly arguing with DarthPunk but OMGUS isn't about WHO you vote, it's about HOW you vote them. A vote is only OMGUS if you're voting them BECAUSE they voted you. If you vote them for a well-thought-out reason, even if they also voted you, then it's not OMGUS.
Let's first go through the reasons why I wanted to vote him anyway: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=353315¤tpage=48#9451. During the Zork lynch discussion DarthPunk repeatedly soft-defended Zork, pushed Mordanis as lynch candidate and proposed to lynch aRyuujin instead of Zork.
2. He switches votes very conveniently at around the same time when Zork fake claims medic. I believe that scum decided in their QT to concede to the Zork lynch. Instead of really defending himself against my accusations DarthPunk makes a huge WIFOM explanation and decides to paint me scummy by saying I set him up with a trap. He denies me any kind of town motivation for pointing out Zork's scumslip. Yet he was happy to give Zork the benefit of doubt until last minute even though many people pointed out his scum behaviour. I see a clear scum motivation for his behaviour:
1. Save Zork and mislynch Mordanis (or aRyuujin at least) instead
2. When there is no way to save Zork, switch the vote before Zork's claim to get a bit of town cred
3. Discredit me as I am the most active power behind his lynch and mislynch me insteadWith him being called out as scum by several people DarthPunk is just flailing around desperately trying to shift the attention to someone, anyone besides himself. He didn't even give us any other reads besides me. I can only repeat it: This is no pro town play! DarthPunk, I'd really like to congratulate you for writing the best case on yourself -> your own filter!So why lynch DarthPunk before Jingle? After all this discussion I am even more convinced of him being scum than I am of Jingle. I made the case on Jingle because there was no town motivation for his awful play. If he isn't just simply bad he must be scum. However this case against DarthPunk is based on his clear scum motivation and not based on the lack of town motivation. To make it clear: If I am 99% convinced that Jingle is scum, than I am 100% convinced that DarthPunk is scum.In my opinion we can not let him get away with this! ##Unvote
##Vote DarthPunk OK all 3 of those points I have covered already. If you are refusing to see the reasoning behind it. Now you are saying that because I did not present cases that you asked for I am scum? I said I would be out of the thread for 12 hours as I was sleeping. So you ask me a question after i have said that and use my lack of response that you were aware of as I said I was sleeping so now there is no motivation for jingles play? you have said that there was scum motivation for jingles play for the past 2 days and now there is no motivation? You realise that was my issue with the jingle case right? 1. if not for you baiting me. I would NEVER have said anything in order to 'save zork' 2. I did not see zorks claim. I was simply fulfilling my promise to stop a no lynch. 3. I know I am town. So if as town I am put into a situation where I was clearly trapped. Then I am obviously going to come after that person. addendum: So now that I know what you are up to I will say this. TOWN: when I flip green can you please do something about this guy. I don't mind dying as long as it helps us win the game. @Darth I'm with you on this particular thing. Seems like a lot of work to go through for scum to get one mislynch so I'm not ready to call Ange scummy. You're partially at fault for perpetuating the argument, but I see your defense is transparent and ringing true, so I'm calling it two misguided townies aimed at each other. I suggest you both drop this for now, because it's been going nowhere for at least 12 hours, and start looking elsewhere. @Ange you'll have to make a better case than that to convince me that anyone is more scummy than Jingle.
I would drop it but I have clearly explained the above points and people continue to bring them up against me. Should I not correct them?
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If I had to make a scum read right now. It would probably be on Aryuujin. I am far from confident in my ability to make reads but the logic behind an aRyuujin lynch is this.
Take this HYPOTHETICAL situation:
Obvious, GoodKarma and aRyuujin make it to endgame. Obvious is town, Goodkarma is scum, aRyujjin is town.
If you take that situation aRyuujin is a CLEAR liability.
Take another: Myself, Ange777 and aRyuujin make it to endgame. I am town, ange777 is Town and aRyuujin is scum
If you take that situation aRyuujin is a clear liability also.
Add to that these points: Every single opinion he has had has been on someone on which a bandwagon has formed. Every single piece of analysis of his has been blatantly plagiarised off other players.
He has never taken an unpopular stance. He has voted for Golbat on his bandwagon. Missed a vote. Voted for Mordanis when he was the most popular choice and his reasoning was almost the exact same as mine from a few posts earlier. Voted for Zork at the last minute. Now is jumping on the jinglehell/darthpunk bandwagon Martyrs himself slightly and disappears again.
With all that being said I find it equally likely him to just be a bad town as a scum (oh no I am 'soft defending' him) but at this point he is a CLEAR liability right now, and will become an even larger liability as the game progresses. UNLESS his posting and analysis improve dramatically.
@ aRyujjin
On August 05 2012 17:26 Obvious.660 wrote:
Your current play is 100% against the town win condition.
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On August 06 2012 08:45 aRyuujin wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2012 07:48 Obvious.660 wrote:On August 06 2012 06:33 aRyuujin wrote:
Expect Goodkarma to paint me as 100% scum #3, he's been tunneling me literally all game long My last post towards aRyuujin was completely disregarded. Where the hell does this post come from? The only town motivation I can see for aRyuujin to come into the thread pointing out that GK has been "tunneling" him the entire game is that he's been essentially inactive for most of the game and it's self preservation for the sake of the town. That said, there's nothing coming from aRyuujin that's showing me he's town. Yes, GK's earlier play was easily characterized as primarily anti-lurker. GK was mentioning aRyuujin a lot during his anti-lurker posts. I wouldn't call that "tunneling" since it's stating the obvious. ... If by your last post you mean this? + Show Spoiler +On August 05 2012 19:14 Obvious.660 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 05 2012 18:50 Obvious.660 wrote:On August 05 2012 18:40 aRyuujin wrote:
EBWOP
ninja'd by alan lol
he's basically agreeing with me at this point, so chances are we're both scum or both town. As Jingle is more scummy than either of us, and I think DP is too, I think it's fairly obvious that we're both town.
@Obvious
I can see why you think I'm scum because of inactivity. I've noted several times how my lurking has been bad. I'd like to ask you a question, though.
Why the hell would scum me miss day 2 vote? Scum can plan out votes/plays and jump on bandwagons much easier, as their goal is NOT actually finding scum, rather just looking like town (no shit). I Did you finish that post? There's an I at the end there, so I just wanted to know if you had anything else to add before I answer. Something more like this? Show nested quote +Scum aRyuujin:
Why the hell would scum me miss day 2 vote? Scum can plan out votes/plays and jump on bandwagons much easier, as their goal is NOT actually finding scum, rather just looking like town (no shit). I lost track of the thread trying to look like bad town and it slipped my mind because I wasn't going to make a meaningful vote anyhow. I honestly don't know what to tell you. Your read on me is that I'm scum faking as a bad town who turned into a bad scum while still having this genius bad town fake. This seems like a logical read /sarcasm. People LYNCH bad townies (you yourself said something to that extant.) When I saw that post, I thought you were just joking, I didn't realize that was your actual analysis. Now at DP: + Show Spoiler +On August 06 2012 08:27 DarthPunk wrote:If I had to make a scum read right now. It would probably be on Aryuujin. I am far from confident in my ability to make reads but the logic behind an aRyuujin lynch is this. Take this HYPOTHETICAL situation: Obvious, GoodKarma and aRyuujin make it to endgame. Obvious is town, Goodkarma is scum, aRyujjin is town. If you take that situation aRyuujin is a CLEAR liability. Take another: Myself, Ange777 and aRyuujin make it to endgame. I am town, ange777 is Town and aRyuujin is scum If you take that situation aRyuujin is a clear liability also. Add to that these points: Every single opinion he has had has been on someone on which a bandwagon has formed. Every single piece of analysis of his has been blatantly plagiarised off other players. He has never taken an unpopular stance. He has voted for Golbat on his bandwagon. Missed a vote. Voted for Mordanis when he was the most popular choice and his reasoning was almost the exact same as mine from a few posts earlier. Voted for Zork at the last minute. Now is jumping on the jinglehell/darthpunk bandwagon Martyrs himself slightly and disappears again. With all that being said I find it equally likely him to just be a bad town as a scum (oh no I am 'soft defending' him) but at this point he is a CLEAR liability right now, and will become an even larger liability as the game progresses. UNLESS his posting and analysis improve dramatically. @ aRyujjinShow nested quote +On August 05 2012 17:26 Obvious.660 wrote:
Your current play is 100% against the town win condition.
You're saying that I jumped on the Jingle/DP bandwagon? Look at the thread. I'm pretty sure I was the first to point at that BOTH of you are scum working together. Actually, I think I'm also the first to really say you're scum. Another thing to note is your usage of these heavily negative connoted words, like 'blatantly plagiarized'. You're bringing up Obvious' HOLY FUCK YOU NEED TO GET LYNCHED big red signpost. You're starting to get emotional, defensive, and are now striking back at your accusers. Another sign of scum. You're continuing to follow the pattern of behavior that Ange set out, even ignoring Jingle to make me your number 1 target. Sorry, DP, but you're digging yourself deeper and deeper into your hole. @Ange: As I said earlier, I'm certain that it's Jingle/DP as remaining scum. However, I think its important to lynch Jingle first, as that's what Shady wants us to do, and he's our biggest townie right now. I'll vote Darthpunk if town decides that we're going with him, but as of now I plan to vote Jingle today and DP tomorrow.
Ah I am far from emotional. In fact I would say that you are being emotional and are lashing back at your accusers.
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Of course I am ignoring jingle. 1.) I have a town read on him, and 2.) he is not in the thread to defend himself so accusing him would not reap any new information. It is also odd that you were lurking the thread, not contributing anything and then almost immediately after myself and obvious link you with being scum you come out with that rather ironic post.
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I was referencing that post in particular. But it IS pretty weird how active you have become now people are actually wanting to lynch you. It IS a striking difference in posting style.
THIS:
On August 06 2012 08:58 aRyuujin wrote:
Something else I'd like to note is that throughout the game, my main supporters have been Keirathi (mason who was NKd) and Promethelax (townie who was lynched the day I missed).
Why would scum me NK Keirathi? Seems kind of dumb if you ask me. Especially when noone but Shady knew he was mason, and he wasn't scumhunting very heavily.
Now, let's pretend for a minute that I'm scum following the plan that Obvious laid out for me. Why would I sit back and let Promethelax get lynched? as a supporter of mine, it would make a lot more sense to keep him alive.
Is pure WIFOM, ally of scum who cannot reasonably argue against their accusers. I think you will notice though that I clearly stated you could be just a bad townie and that with an increase in posting and analysis I would change my mind on you. Your response seems to be far more of a chainsaw defense than actually bringing anything to the table in terms of cases. I welcome you to put forward a case on me if you believe me to be red but what you are posting right now
On August 06 2012 08:58 aRyuujin wrote:
In my eyes, you're just driving yourself deeper into red territory now.
Is not a case. not something I can defend with arguments at all. You are throwing suspicion on me without facts or evidence. You have a feeling. not something I can very easily defend myself against is it? or is that the point?
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OK I have class now. Please do not, as ange has tried to do, take my lack of response to mean anything more than it is. I am away right now. I will be back.
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EPT
