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He is making mistakes. But there doesn't seem to be a discernible motive behind them.
If these mistakes in some way furthered an agenda they would be a lot more worrying to me than just making mistakes for no reason whatsoever.
This actually makes me lean towards just a bad townie more than anything. Why as scum would he make such obvious mistakes and cast suspicion on him for nothing? To me it seems less likely for scum to make stupid mistakes like this exactly because they are more likely to be careful.
Even mords day 1 posting was better than this. What made it scummy? he was actively pursuing an agenda. If zork has an agenda with his mistakes it is to make everyone super suspicious of him. This is the reason I don't think these mistakes can be used as 100% proof of his scumminess as you do.
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On August 03 2012 21:34 Ange777 wrote:
And that's why not keeping up with the correct facts and misquoting other player's statements can't be only deemed as a tell for bad town players but has to make him scummy as well.
Yep. You are exactly right. that is why I can't be 100% sure if he is playing badly as scum or playing badly as town.
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@ange777
We seem to have exactly the same positions as each other on our respective lynches. I don't supposed I have convinced you to vote for Mordanis again?
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It gives me more of a town vibe because scum are more likely to be careful and not make stupid mistakes like Zork is making. But as you say, making mistakes like that does not mean he is town and he could just as likely be scum.
What I don't understand about the mistakes he made, and this didn't come across in your case on him, Is what motivation could he have for playing so badly? All the other mistakes that have been made in this game to me seem to have been trying to confuse peoples cases, distance themselves from mislynches, cause a mislynch etc.
Thoughts?
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@Jingle @Ange777
On August 03 2012 22:19 Ange777 wrote:
@DarthPunk: You said you will re-read my case on Jingle? What's your opinion?
On August 03 2012 06:01 Ange777 wrote:
But only a couple of hours later (to be precise directly after I had posted my case against Zork) you had miraculously not only finished reading the thread, no you also had a very strong conviction that I am scummy. Based on arguments you yet have to show me. And while you have been tunneling me you have totally ignored my case on Zork based on his scumslip and the following reactions.
Would you please give me a town motivation for ignoring the case on Zork? Oh, and please keep in mind, attacking me doesn't qualify as a defense! [/b]
So this is just wrong. Jingle started airing suspicions against you well before you started going after zork. In no way is the jingle situation between you and him relevant to the zork case. I don't know why you would draw that connection at all. If you had read the last game you will see that jingle caught scum by Identifying and avoiding a similar situation so it is understandable that he would be on the look out for a repeat of that. Your response to him was OMGUS and WIFOM. I can understand why he finds you suspicious, particularly when you immediately become super aggressive towards him when he posts a case on you. I don't really think you have a case on him to be honest.
I initially had a small town read on you but after actually reading through the discussion between yourself and jingle I am starting to worry about you. Your reaction to jingle's pressure was an incredibly disproportionate response, and trying to draw a connection to a case you posted hours after jingle had first cast suspicion on you is very suspicious to me.
I don't see any connections whatsoever between Jingles pressure on you and your case on zork. I have no idea why you would try and draw a connection that wasn't there. It seems to be OMGUS. but I don't like the fact that several aspects of your case (Jingle connection, MrMedic post) seem to have fallen apart on closer inspection and the fact that many of the other points could just be bad town play, makes me even more wary of following your lynch on Zork. It seems like it is just an attempt to make an easy mislynch on a lurky bad town player.
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On August 03 2012 23:35 alan133 wrote:
@Mordanis
I am disappointed. No one ever look at any case I wrote. Are they that bad? Am I being ignored? No. Not even Mordanis feels he needs to waste his energy posting a defence. Do you think it suck so bad it does not even matter, or you are just ignoring it, like how you have been ignoring other people's case on you, for being widely inactive, and over-apologetic. Why was MY post never taken seriously all the time? Do I suck that bad?
I know how you feel. I feel like my cases on mord are never answered properly and then a bandwagon forms that mord starts or jumps onto and someone is mislynched
On August 03 2012 23:35 alan133 wrote:
Why are you ignoring my defence on your case against me? Did you just randomly pick two players and attack them? Once one of them sparked a Zorkmid bandwagon you totally forgotten about me? Do I still deserve my FOS or not? Did my defence cleared myself out of doubt or not?
On August 02 2012 15:04 Shady Sands wrote:
He's set up a rhythm here: find a weakness that isn't directly related to being scummy (newbieness and past play), second an accusation, then sit back and watch the fireworks, and possibly set up a (mis)lynch for the next day if possible. All this smacks of a very aggressive scum play.
YEP
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ok. it's 2am. i am going to have a short sleep and be back before deadline.
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On August 04 2012 00:46 Obvious.660 wrote:
Hey Jingle, if I may have a moment of your time. I'm about to head out the door for the rest of the day but I wanted to ask you about something. Based on our last game together, you played a fairy suspicious-of-all town and weren't abashed of moving on to better targets as they sprung up. My question to you is this: do you not find it more suspicious than the situation you are looking at with Ange that Zorkmid has come under fire recently and the town is suddenly super active? This Mord case seems like a direct counter-wagon to Zork, the kind that appears when scum is close to getting lynched. Given that Mord has been under vague suspicions since the beginning of the game, don't you think it's fair that you take a good shake at voicing at least your own opinion on the case I and others have been making against Zork? Ange may be suspicious and all but you can see for yourself that there are bigger fish to deal with today. I'm leaving for about 13 hours right after this post it's just something that occurred to me overnight trying to fall asleep.
I don't see how the mord case is a 'counter-wagon' to anything. Read through the thread. The case on mord began before the case on zork even started. Even Ange777 made a case on mord before she started her case on Zork. The case against him has not been answered aside from asking what the case against him was when several cases on him had been posted he has done nothing but second ange's position and then disappeared from the thread.
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seriously?
On August 04 2012 01:01 goodkarma wrote:Considering the stubbornness with which both JingleHell and Zork have voted for their candidates and haven't tried to help with securing a lynch majority, it is clear as day to me that they are scum. Then there is only one scum remaining, and he is voting FOR ONE OF THE TWO CANDIDATES with four votes. With Zork pegged as scum, one of the three remaining people is also scum: alan133, aRyuujin, Darthpunk. I said before that I would stand by Shady Sands, after he had already voted for Mord. Instead of helping town, he's afked, and in the process has let town down  . I am nearly 100% certain at this point that Mord. is innocent, but shady is only confirmed town meaning EVERY TOWN REMAINING would have to vote for the other candidate, Zork, for Zork to be lynched. That's simply not going to happen. And at this point, it feels just as unlikely that whichever other two town are on Mord. will be changing their votes... In other words, I'm pretty sure today is no-lynch. There is also the possibility that JingleHell and Zork would tack onto the innocent candidate bandwaggon, which could secure the majority, but would condemn them as scum. I don't see that happening, though honestly it is their best move (lol) since it would guarantee LYLO for town. Ironically, if town no lynches today, a situation I hadn't considered, town in fact still isn't in LYLO. This is a situation I hadn't accounted for, but the complete gridlock in the voting has clearly demonstrated where some of the scum are. A lot of information has been presented from voting patterns even without a lynch. So while I could switch my vote to an innocent man, and stay true to my word, I prefer hypocrisy. My plan with Shady as leader is still the best chance for town, and hopefully town will realize that tomorrow. But the biggest component of that plan, Shady himself, needs to become proactive in rallying town together for that plan to work. Further, if we were just to lynch: Zork and JingleHell the next two days, and cop were to survive, then: We could go from a 1/3 chance to catch the last scum and win to a much better chance (not 100%... the last scum could still be godfather..., ((1/3)(1/3)+(1)(2/3))*100 = ~78% if you really wanted to know). I know that some might consider everything I've just said speculation, but nothing in this game is certain. I strongly believe that today's voting patterns have pegged two scum, and provided us the place to look for the last one. I look forward to hearing everyone's opinions tonight.
Wait how did mord go from suspicious to a confirmed town?
ok this is the most retarded thing I have ever read. You have spent the best part of the day saying we should all lynch who shady wants in order to secure a lynch, and now you are saying we should no lynch. Everyone who hasn't voted your way is now potentially scum and this
Considering the stubbornness with which both JingleHell and Zork have voted for their candidates and haven't tried to help with securing a lynch majority, it is clear as day to me that they are scum.
Is not a read, not a case. Do you think if zork was around he wouldn't vote for mord to save himself. Jingle has a case against ange777 that has not been answered. But Somehow not answering cases against you is a sure way to prove you are town. WTF?
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I mean honestly. I can't even begin to express how badly my mind is blown at that post.
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so are we headed towards a no lynch now? I did say I would change my vote to zorkmid to stop a nolynch. Although I think he is probably just a bad town.
I find it unbelievable mord is escaping a lynch once again.
##:Unvote
##:vote: zorkmid
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On August 04 2012 03:05 Zorkmid wrote:I didn't want to have to do this just yet. I am a DoctorOn day one I saved Keir. Day 2 I attempted to save aRyuujin. I tried to breadcrumb this early on. Show nested quote +On July 28 2012 01:14 Zorkmid wrote:
Activity seems woefully slow. I guess that most of you are on different clocks that I am. ##unvote
##vote MordanisI think we're going to lose.
Wait? what the fuck? how is that a breadcrumb?
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Right. well as i see no breadcrumb in the quote I don;t see why anyone should believe you.
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Ignoring the 'crumb'
Why would you try to medic save the person that had missed a vote and has been the most inactive?
I don't buy it at all.
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Right it's 5am and I have stayed up far too long. night all.
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Hey guys just got back. I have been out all day. It is now 1am and as I went to bed at 5 30am i am really tired. so i won't read through or post til tomorrow.
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So I have read through the thread. First up I would like to say GG mordanis my great sparring partner. I always believed you to be scum but I was proven wrong. I hope you can forgive me for tunnelling you so hard all game.
I am going to write up a long post addressing the cases against me.
On the thing with the post timing. It was 4am at the time and I wanted to get some sleep. It was tied at 5-5 and even though I was leaning towards Zork being just a bad townie rather than scum. I would rather lynch him than a no lynch. I actually didn't see zorks post because it happened whilst I was writing mine. I honestly just wanted to go to bed and didn't want to risk a no lynch.
(obviously I stayed up for an extra hour because of his medic claim.)
I have suspicions on who may be scum and I will make a case on them at some stage also. But I have some reading to do before class tomorrow so it won't come immediately (I will work on these posts on and off all day)
That being said we are in a really good position at the moment. So I am glad people didn't listen to me which is ironic because yesterday I was annoyed mord was getting away again.
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On August 05 2012 05:21 Mordanis wrote:
DP: Why did you change your vote from someone you've been suspicious of literally all game to someone you've only defended, in the middle of a tied vote situation, for the most vague reason possible.
I said I would. I think it was to Ange in the second part of day 2. I was always willing to change my vote to avoid a no lynch. at that point in time I had every intention of going to sleep and didn't want to leave it in the hands of others. Would I rather people to have changed their votes to you at that time 100% yes. But I didn't see that happening and some were even putting forward the idea of a no lynch which i was 100% against. So I tried to consolidate the vote onto one candidate. I am not sure others would have switched off mord had zork not made his medic claim. Anyway that was my thoughts behind it.
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On August 05 2012 05:58 Ange777 wrote:
He (myself) further states that he can't see any kind of scum motivation for a scum Jingle to tunnel me and discredit me when I am pushing the case on scum Zork.
On August 05 2012 05:49 JingleHell wrote:
By the way, since we're kinda up to our neck in WIFOM right now regarding the "case" on me anyways...
Why the hell would I, if I was scum, come into the thread taking some convoluted route of being suspicious of people who weren't under fire? I could have easily taken the easy way out, piled onto Mordanis, and played the "unbiased outsider" card people were handing me to agree with the case against him?
If you think that makes sense from the hypothetical scum me viewpoint, I think I'm going to take it as an insult.
This is part of the reason the Jingle case does not make sense to me. When he first came to the thread people were even talking about everyone sheeping his vote (obvious). If he was scum I see no rational in his play. He could have just quietly jumped on a bandwagon and consolidated the goodwill that everyone was showing him when he first joined. Instead he disregards staying alive and makes his own reads, own case and starts pressuring those people. To me this is town behaviour and would be retarded as scum. I don't get why everyone thinks that all scum in the game were forming a counter wagon to zork. He was a bad player I think everyone can agree on that. I don't know why people think that scum would go all in in order to save someone whom was obviously a liability. That is largely WIFOM though, which I dislike.
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EBWOP: sorry for the string of shorter posts it is easy for me to handle them like this (as opposed to fewer larger posts) whilst I am doing my reading. I am going to just finish it now and then make a large post so I don't clutter the thread so much.
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EPT
