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I believe YourHarry to be a better lynch case than Tube or Obvious.660 at this stage of the game.
While Tube has made some suspicious posts, he's waaaaay too upfront/naieve about his suspicious behavior, and comes across as a really really bad townie player. Suspicion alone is not enough to lynch someone - its more important to look for Mafia Motive.
Obvious.660 reads as pretty townie to me. He has many lengthy posts, provides clear reasoning for his actions, is playing recklessly. I don't understand the bandwagon at all, and this looks all too similar to the "LYNCH LAZERMONKEY" bandwagon on Day 1 in Newbie Mini Mafia XX. I don't want to spend pages and pages screaming in his defense this game, but I will do if we do this bandwagon shit again.
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@ Fulla - Start posting NOW. It's inexcusable to have 1 post at this point in the game.
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I don't find Obvious.660's "list" suspicious at all. While he lists people, his motive is to make all his thoughts and reads known as opposed to pointing out individual suspicious. In addition, look at his posts on drwiggl3s and Calgar - why on earth would he establish the "townieness" of people if he was mafia? It goes against mafia motive to cast suspicion on as many people as possible.
There was a similar player in the last game I played (Mackin). He was a townie, but often provided his information/reads in "list" posts like these.
In short, while it can be interpreted as suspicious, it doesn't read as such.
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On July 18 2012 00:02 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On July 17 2012 23:43 Hapahauli wrote:
I believe YourHarry to be a better lynch case than Tube or Obvious.660 at this stage of the game.
While Tube has made some suspicious posts, he's waaaaay too upfront/naieve about his suspicious behavior, and comes across as a really really bad townie player. Suspicion alone is not enough to lynch someone - its more important to look for Mafia Motive.
Obvious.660 reads as pretty townie to me. He has many lengthy posts, provides clear reasoning for his actions, is playing recklessly. I don't understand the bandwagon at all, and this looks all too similar to the "LYNCH LAZERMONKEY" bandwagon on Day 1 in Newbie Mini Mafia XX. I don't want to spend pages and pages screaming in his defense this game, but I will do if we do this bandwagon shit again. And Hapahauli kicks off his usual behavior of trying to railroad the town, based on his oh so exemplary record of finding one whole scum in Newbie XX, and conveniently ignoring all the bad cases he personally had going there while knocking any cases he disliked from it. /yawn I'll just stick with ignoring you, thanks.
Jingle. I don't want us getting into a dickfight again in this game. It'll only create chaos in the town. I will make every effort to remain civil with you, and all I ask you provide reasoning for your opinions as opposed to dismissing my case based on my "ego" or whatever.
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On July 18 2012 00:18 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2012 00:10 Hapahauli wrote:On July 18 2012 00:02 JingleHell wrote:On July 17 2012 23:43 Hapahauli wrote:
I believe YourHarry to be a better lynch case than Tube or Obvious.660 at this stage of the game.
While Tube has made some suspicious posts, he's waaaaay too upfront/naieve about his suspicious behavior, and comes across as a really really bad townie player. Suspicion alone is not enough to lynch someone - its more important to look for Mafia Motive.
Obvious.660 reads as pretty townie to me. He has many lengthy posts, provides clear reasoning for his actions, is playing recklessly. I don't understand the bandwagon at all, and this looks all too similar to the "LYNCH LAZERMONKEY" bandwagon on Day 1 in Newbie Mini Mafia XX. I don't want to spend pages and pages screaming in his defense this game, but I will do if we do this bandwagon shit again. And Hapahauli kicks off his usual behavior of trying to railroad the town, based on his oh so exemplary record of finding one whole scum in Newbie XX, and conveniently ignoring all the bad cases he personally had going there while knocking any cases he disliked from it. /yawn I'll just stick with ignoring you, thanks. Jingle. I don't want us getting into a dickfight again in this game. It'll only create chaos in the town. I will make every effort to remain civil with you, and all I ask you provide reasoning for your opinions as opposed to dismissing my case based on my "ego" or whatever. Are you blind, or just ignoring everything you disagree with again? I already provided my reasoning for voting on Obvious, and you dismissed it completely, based purely on WIFOM and assumptions. You're a brick wall in an argument, so I'm not going to bother. Would you like me to link some posts (which you ignored completely) explaining why you're at the very least not worth the bother of arguing against, and in some ways, have the potential to be bad for town? Would you like me remind you of the BassInSpace case you were busily trying to tear to shreds? You know, the guy we lynched in part because of my ego, who was the LAST SCUM? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349066¤tpage=51#1001http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349066¤tpage=51#1007
So what? I made a mistake about Bass. Most of my case was based off his voting pattern rather than the content of his posts, which were suspicious in hindsight (took wishy-washy stances on Mackin/YourHarry).
However, may I remind you about LazerMonkey, who you relentlessly tried to lynch D1 despite him flipping townie at the end? Obvious.660 reminds me more of LazerMonkey - I'm defending him based on his posting style and tone. How on earth is he more suspicious than YourHarry?
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On July 18 2012 00:44 YourHarry wrote:
Haph. Regards to meta. While I believe that meta is very useful in determining town/scum alignments, I do not think it's useful to simply compare the length of the posts. Scum Harry does know that people like you, jingle, and hopeless would keep his eyes on my posts to compare meta from our previous game. I would be motivated to emulate the types of posts I made in Newbie XX, to mislead you guys that I am, yet again, town. And it would be easy to do - especially, if the length of the posts is the one thing I need to emulate. Look for my motivation of the posts - which I admit is lacking - because I am not sure who is suspicious. But in my defense, I did read every post in this thread.
As for your accusation for wishy-washy comments and voting Obvious.660 without reason... do you really think this goes against my meta? I think I have also done quick voting in XX without much reason. It is true that in this game I practically provided 0 reason, LOL, but hopefully that should not make me more scummy. Also, sometimes I would like the person I am accusing to make a guess at why I am accusing him.
You also accused me of trying to "spread suspicion" rather the give reads. I haven't given much read, except to point out that you Hapha were suspicious for not making one of your signature analysis. In my original post, I too cited the length of the posts in analyzing your meta, so yes that would be a contradiction to what I am writing in this post.
In regards to Obvious.660, I don't know why people find that suspicious. He was simply giving out his reads on all of the players. Non-noncommittal, you say? Just because he didn't vote? As a town, you often do feel unsure about town/scum alignments of players. Just because I express that I am not sure player X is town or scum, should not make me scummy. It's true.
In regards to your Obvious.660 voting, it's extremely different from your previous game. Quick voting is one thing. Quick voting without reasoning is entirely another. In the previous game, you were very upfront about using Quickvoting for pressure. In this game, it looks like you're doing it for shits and giggles. Its also worth saying that my meta argument is entirely supplementary, and is used to reinforce the other points: your one-liners, lack of reasoning, and lack of content are all extremely suspicious. I also highly doubt you all of a sudden switched your townie posting style to this in order to prove your innocence via. some crazy WIFOM meta thing.
In regard to "spreading suspicion" - the tone and manner is highly scummy. I would have no objections if you immediately FOS'd me, saying that me not having posted a long case was a scumtell. However, you backtracked on it immediately after you said it. What purpose could that post have other than creating suspicion? I KNOW you're capapble of being decisive, yet you didn't do it.
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@ JIngle - This is your case on Obvious:
You voted for Obvious based on his "suspicious" vote for tube. While it was a bad read and a stupid play, I don't find it suspicious. His tone is genuine, and he acknowledges the reasons for his mistake - in no way does it "deflect" or "mislead." Bad votes =/= suspicious votes, there has to be an identifiable mafia-motive/manner, and there isn't one.
You're suspicious of the "sacrificial lamb thing" - this again comes across as reckless/stupid, not suspicious. Do you honestly think mafia would post something like that? Its reckless, and even if its "stupid", its a townie trait.
Your'e suspicious of his "give you a chance before I throw you under the bus" quote. You just take him out of context and misinterpret his definition of "bus".
You're supsicious of his "list" post. I explained why I don't think its suspicious. Remember Mackin?
...and that's it. Now why are you not suspicious of YourHarry? I think he's a far better D1 lynch.
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On July 18 2012 00:50 JingleHell wrote:
Considering he's accusing me of tunneling too much, and you of spreading too much suspicion, I'd just assume it's yet another case of Hapa being Hapa.
For christ sake Jingle - the backhanded comments are getting rediculous. Exactly how do you think this helps the town? Cut it out.
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"throwing someone under the bus" is a phrase, and not necessarily a mafia action. Perhaps I'm underestimating the general newbie here, but I find it hard to believe that mafia would willingly talk about bussing someone on the open thread.
Anywho, we can agree to disagree on the Obvious.660 posts. I still believe I'm right, and I'll be pushing for the lynch of YourHarry as previously stated.
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On July 18 2012 01:37 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2012 01:35 Hapahauli wrote:On July 18 2012 00:50 JingleHell wrote:
Considering he's accusing me of tunneling too much, and you of spreading too much suspicion, I'd just assume it's yet another case of Hapa being Hapa. For christ sake Jingle - the backhanded comments are getting rediculous. Exactly how do you think this helps the town? Cut it out. I'll cut it out the second you stop thinking that cardboard crown you got from Burger King proves you're king shit. Did you actually read the posts I referred you to, and try being open minded about them, or were you too busy trying to decide how best to subjugate others to your ego?
Since when does pushing for my case constitute "ego?" Its a scumhunt, and I'm going to try to argue to get the scummiest player lynch. You're doing the exact same thing with Obvious.660.
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But Tube didn't make a scumslip! He was asked to change his tone for the town and did so!
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EBWOP: that was addressed to drwiggl3s
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On July 18 2012 03:51 JingleHell wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2012 03:48 Hapahauli wrote:
But Tube didn't make a scumslip! He was asked to change his tone for the town and did so! And if the two of us are agreeing on it, you'd think it would be obvious as all hell to anyone else, right?
I'm shocked we're on the same side of this issue tbh o_O
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On July 18 2012 04:36 Evulrabbitz wrote:
I will throw my vote on Obvious.660 based on his eagerness to vote for Tube for something that didn't even occur.
##Vote Obvious.660
That vote isn't even suspicious! Bad vote =/= scummy behavior, and he's been pretty townie otherwise. Hell if you're not going to listen to me, atleast read Calgar's opinion on Obvious.660
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On July 18 2012 05:25 calgar wrote:
@hapa Will you consider swinging your vote to iamperfection? We can potentially bag him over obvious.660 if we can convince people. I think the argument against iamperfection is stronger than YourHarry now. He made some points and if his posting shapes up and continues like it has then we'll know more. At least we've 'aired the dirty laundry' on him, so to speak.
I haven't gone through iamperfection's filter all too thorougly yet. Let me take a look, and I'll get back to you in a few minutes.
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On July 18 2012 05:25 calgar wrote:
@hapa Will you consider swinging your vote to iamperfection? We can potentially bag him over obvious.660 if we can convince people. I think the argument against iamperfection is stronger than YourHarry now. He made some points and if his posting shapes up and continues like it has then we'll know more. At least we've 'aired the dirty laundry' on him, so to speak.
Welp. YourHarry is still my #1 Mafia read. Regardless, I feel pretty strongly about my obvious.660 townie read, and if we can save him from getting lynched by voting for a semi-suspicious player, I'll do so.
[/b]##Unvote YourHarry
##Vote iamperfection[/b]
NOTE: I have to catch a train and I'll be gone until close to the lynch deadline. Can I rely on you to lobby for the iamperfection lynch Calgar?
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Bold fail:
##Unvote YourHarry
##Vote iamperfection
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Fuck. GG Obvious.660, wish I could've done more to save ya.
@ Jingle - well if he claimed vet, he would've survived, no? It also confirms a townie and doesn't waste a lynch.
@ Town - Balls.
Fortunately we should be able to get some information from the bandwagon. I'll be looking through vote patterns and rereading filters tonight. In the mean time, make sure you post your reads before the end of the night!! I'll try to post mine in a couple of hours - we don't want anyone dying from the mafia night kill without providing any information.
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EPT
