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On July 13 2012 04:47 gonzaw wrote:
I don't see a "relatively noob" scum posting like this as soon as the game starts.
He "jokingly" accused 3 people by that point, and seemed cheerful about it. That's not how noob scum play (why would they try to "joke" accuse people if it puts them more in the spotlight as SOON as the game starts?), hell they even rarely post at the very beginning of the game at all, and they never appear cheerful or anything. Why? Because they are scum that's why, they have to check their scum QT, check their buddies, talk to them, think how they are going to proceed, etc.
Someone more experienced could pull this off, but I even doubt that.
That's what made me think Radfield wasn't scum on iGrok's game and I was right, basically no scum jumps right into the action at the very start of the game and start joking around and posting without hesitating at all.
No, you were wrong. Radfield was scum - SK - in that game, a game where you repeatedly and incorrectly called him townie. Why are you using one of your biggest fail-reads (by comparison, I had Radfield as scum and voted for him as SK, correctly, in igrok's poll) as a way of justifying your townreads here??
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On July 13 2012 10:33 marvellosity wrote:
damnit my case was so badly timed. dumb of me
ah, s0lstice. About time I explained this post a little. My case was effectively about you not contributing/posting your own opinons.
Options:
1) s0lstice is scum. Correct play is to make a good contributory post with opinions to contradict the case and look townie.
2) s0lstice is townie. Correct play is to make a good contributory post with opinions to contradict the case and look townie.
... that's the problem. I should have sat on the case until sometime today to see if you'd made a post like that without my prompting. So unfortunately I've backed myself into a corner and I'm not sure lynching you is best play :/
re: Milton, I'll take a closer look and get back to you.
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re: Milton. Everything he says rests on one central assumption.
On July 13 2012 06:35 Miltonkram wrote:
He's shat up a bunch of the thread talking about his proposal or trying to derail the discussion towards it.
On July 13 2012 17:07 Miltonkram wrote:
I'm looking for a player pushing a scummy agenda. Neither austin or Keirathi fit that bill to me. Talismania does. It's as simple as that.
On July 13 2012 20:10 Miltonkram wrote:
talismania- I've posted my reasoning before. He's promoted an anti-town environment.
That assumption being that the discussion around the plan 'shat up the thread', 'derailed discussion', 'pushes a scum agenda', or 'promotes an anti-town environment'.
Arguably having something to discuss first 24 hours Day 1 actually promotes a positive town environment. Usually Day 1 is full of fumbling around looking for shit to talk about. But look at this game, most people have reads of some description, and the game is going along at a nice pace.
What I'm getting at is this - we need to hear from Miltonkram on why exactly he thinks this way. Why does he think the discussions (discussion = good, no?) have promoted an anti-town environment?
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In other news, I'm for some unknown reason still quite annoyed at gonzaw. "Scum don't act lighthearted n shit at the start of games" has been his central premise. Well, while going back through a previous game...
On June 12 2012 18:13 Miltonkram wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2012 09:04 suki wrote:
Oh yay s0lstice and sciberbia :D
i hope we're on the same team this time around T__T I know what you mean. It's great being on their team, fucking terrifying when they're working against you  Good to see so many familiar faces! Can't wait for this to get started so I can feed my Mafia addictio... uh... I mean... enjoy a wonderfully sporting event with you gents!
On June 13 2012 10:35 Miltonkram wrote:Hey all, glad to see we've got a bit of activity already. In NMM XV we actually had a decent discussion about no-lynches (involving me making a fool of myself) and how they can actually be beneficial in certain setups. That being said, we don't know for certain if we'll have any modkills so we should leave no-lynches off the table until we hit the unlikely scenario that a no-lynch is beneficial for the town. Town, the best way to contribute is just to get posting. Let everyone know what your thoughts are. Did someone post something suspicious? Let us know about it. Do you think the town is making a bad move? Let us know about it. If a townie lurks he/she is letting down his/her entire team. So don't do it, K? I'm sooooooooper serious. Like sooooper, soooooooooooper serious.Hey sciberbia, remember this ##Vote: sciberbia...heh heh heh
Miltonkram scum. Friendly, jokey, with a non-explained vote at the start of a game. Such a shit heuristic.
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scum = not town, it includes SK
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mafia means mafia, scum means anti-town, but ok gonzaw. I could squabble with you for hours 
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gonzaw: what do you make of this?
On July 13 2012 10:21 s0Lstice wrote:
Miltonkram: I found to my sorrow that making a case on a town Talis is an easy thing to do. This also means that he is an attractive target for scum to harp on. I found Milton's reasoning strange. His filter is small, but there are several references to the use of meta. He uses meta to inform his reads on Keirathi, Sciberbia, and austin...but not his top scum read? I know for certain that the information he would find would be useful to him here. His case reads as phony, and I think there is a good chance he rolled scum again.
Risen: I've spent a ton of time in his past games. The two biggest things he did when he was scum that he didn't do when he was town were: stressing repeatedly that it's too early to have reads, and being forthcoming/defending his 'town reads.' So far this game he has hit both of those marks. He defended Mattchew, and concluded that Dropbear being town is likely. He has said twice that it's too early to post reads.
I feel better about lynching Miltonkram today, and as such:
##vote: Miltonkram
This game his [austin's] effort matches, and I feel he has made some good points on Risen. Him matching his town meta is only one piece of my view on him, and it's largely unnecessary. His actions thus far seem pretty pro-town to me.
On July 13 2012 11:33 Keirathi wrote:As an aside: your case against Risen feels stronger than your case against Milton anyways. I'm kind of suprised you voted the way you did.
Mentioned elsewhere in my filter, but that was my gut reaction to s0lstice's post as well. What do you think?
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On July 13 2012 22:32 Vivax wrote:
For once I'll agree with you marv. Using self-presented behavior as argumentation is not reliable. Inconsistencies between arguments and intentions are much better for scumhunting.
Miltons intentions and arguments are :
1. Lynch talis based on (imo) weak arguments. At least too weak to draw such a quick decision about the lynch target. To me it just looks like Milton's trying to pick a target to blend in and call it a day, while defending himself like he does in point 2.
2. Defend from s0lstice using arguments not designed to defend oneself, but to attack s0lstice. That's also the inconsistency. If you think s0lstice is playing scummy, make a case against him. But don't point out things you find scummy and expect that to be your defense against that players' arguments.
I hadn't noticed this, will go back and have a look because if you're right it's quite interesting.
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Yeah, it's such bullshit, wbg clarified twice in the thread what the possible distribution of scum/SK were. Feigned ignorance or simply doesn't read shit, either one is crap.
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On July 12 2012 13:48 NoSmurfHere wrote:Show nested quote +
What numbers of mafs are there potentially? iirc 2 or 3 are only possible mafia counts in C9++ and 3 is more likely. Is it the same here?
Yes.
[/QUOTE]
On July 12 2012 04:17 NoSmurfHere wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 04:09 austinmcc wrote:
Can we know what system you're using to roll the setup? It's loosely based on this:
Click for C9++ Wiki page
However many of the roll chances have been modified to reflect the strength of town usage of power roles on TL being greater than on mafiascum. I.E, the chances for vigilante and mason in particular are drastically reduced while the chance for roleblocker is increased.
Also the mafia determiner has been changed to include framers and reduces the possibility of a 2 man scumteam (though that is still possible)
At some point if I am convinced that my determiner is balanced I will release it. However I've been tweaking it game to game and examining all the setups that it generates. Luckily I haven't had to throw one out yet so chances are strong that almost any version of the randomizer I've used is reasonably balanced. I just want to find the most balanced one for use on TL.
Why don't you read the thread, gonzaw? I even quoted these earlier posts IN-GAME.
???
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As far as I can tell, the kinda "average" setup is something along the lines of 3 mafia, 1 SK, 3 blues. That's what both Emergency and Movie had.
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On July 14 2012 00:55 strongandbig wrote:
As for your question I'm at work still so no deep thoughts yet - I'm inclined to give Risen the benefit of the doubt for a few days at least, since he has a good motivation to try to change his town play. Nothing on dropbear right now I'll try and reread his filter later.
I think this is a terrible, lazy way to think.
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On July 13 2012 17:07 Miltonkram wrote:
You're right on one thing, I should familiarize myself with talismania's meta, which is something I will do now that I've gotten home from work. (They called me in on my day off, the bastards)
Just a quick point. In no way does a player following their town meta absolve them of suspicion, but it does push them closer to a null read than a scum read. I'm looking for a player pushing a scummy agenda. Neither austin or Keirathi fit that bill to me. Talismania does. It's as simple as that.
In addition to my earlier question to Miltonkram, I'd like this expanded on also
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quick question tali - what pushes you to Dropbear rather than austin?
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On July 14 2012 01:32 talismania wrote:
gonzaw: Aside from his "lol how does the setup work?" posts everything he's done screams townie to me. Like the amount of effort he's put in just seems excessive. Even I imagine myself with 100% free time I can't see myself doing that much work as scum.
I'll just leave this scum filter here. Bear in mind this was a PM game, so that was merely half his effort.
I'm not saying he's scum because of it, but please do not assume he is town through effort, that's totally null alignment-wise for gonzaw.
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On July 14 2012 01:56 Miltonkram wrote:
@ marvellosity
I would argue that discussion has moved along well despite the way talismania has been posting. I see where you're coming from, talismania's proposal did spark discussion. The fact that he's been so intent to keep discussing a dead topic could easily derail the thread away from scumhunting, or, in the case of his "Reaction" post, doing really bad scumhunting based off of a terrible premise.
I'm not sure what you would like expanded on in that last comment you outlined. I'm going to look through previous games talismania has played to help inform my read on him. Is there something in there that isn't clear to you?
@ s0Lstice
I was jokingly making the point that I was sheeping marvellosity. I didn't mean to say that you were.
I was more prodding for the results. Kinda important with lynch time coming up
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On July 14 2012 02:18 Mattchew wrote:
I am going to sheep marv, on solistice most likely
I'm not at all sure about s0lstice, for my timing reasons given earlier. I need to exercise/eat now, but I want people to seriously consider Risen
austin and s0lstice (I think) both brought up points about his meta (defending townreads/connection scumhunting or some such). A couple of other people have noted his desire to change how he plays.
however there is a significant difference from not playing too aggressive and not actually contributing or scumhunting. Remember way back earlier in the cycle when austin made his first case against Risen?
Well Risen has done jack shit since then either and it's pretty late in the day to have done jack shit in.
Other than that, general concerns:
Keirathi is still quite uninvolved
Some of austin's posts still seem misplaced
Can't work out the angle behind Milton's attack on talismania
Dropbear hasn't strayed too far from null for me
s&b hasn't done anything particularly alignment indicating for me
gonzaw doesn't know how to read towntells (this is a pointless jab actually)
Overall I don't want to lynch any of s&b, dropbear, talis (I liked his last big post a lot)
But yeah, please look at Risen and his contributions and tell me if you think he's townie (no 'he's playing nicer' excuses)
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I did it just to make you look bad, austin.
Right, back in 2 hours or so
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oh god I've never been this unsure on day 1 of where to shove my vote (normally at least there's someone easy!). Just read the thread since I left and it's very confusing. Gonna have a dash through the filters and see what I can find.
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I'm just gonna splurge my thoughts a little as I go
On July 14 2012 03:56 s0Lstice wrote:
Vivax- what happened to Miltonkram? You've waffled around on him quite a bit, and now Risen is your top scumread?
I find this somewhat hypocritical as s0lstice pushed Miltonkram in his big post after my case, and is now voting Risen himself
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EPT
