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Probulous
Australia3894 Posts
On July 19 2012 10:08 HiroPro wrote: Also, you still did not explain why a town Zealos would ever try to argue that BH was trying to buddy "influential townie" Kurumi. I don't know, it doesn't sound like something scum would do either. I agree with Sandro, we need to focus on the senior management. | ||
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sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
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layabout
United Kingdom2600 Posts
On July 19 2012 10:08 HiroPro wrote: Also, you still did not explain why a town Zealos would ever try to argue that BH was trying to buddy "influential townie" Kurumi. I have a very low opinion of town Zealos and that i something i think he could do if e hadn't been reading the thread. What you said he did was not accurate and this play from Zealos reminds me very much of how he acted at the end of Bang Bang mafia 2. Zealos said that he would vote for Blazinghand and not come back for the rest of the day. If he is town and he cares then he will come back and try to be productive there is nothing to stop him doing this as mafia but if he doesn't do it he is probably mafia and we should lynch him. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6786 Posts
Also I really don't like the idea of not killing kurumi today. The last thing we need to do is give up an easy scum kill. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On July 19 2012 10:19 layabout wrote: I have a very low opinion of town Zealos and that i something i think he could do if e hadn't been reading the thread. What you said he did was not accurate and this play from Zealos reminds me very much of how he acted at the end of Bang Bang mafia 2. Zealos said that he would vote for Blazinghand and not come back for the rest of the day. If he is town and he cares then he will come back and try to be productive there is nothing to stop him doing this as mafia but if he doesn't do it he is probably mafia and we should lynch him. Let me read Bang Bang. I will come back after I have read his filter from that game. | ||
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Meapak_Ziphh
United States6786 Posts
On July 19 2012 10:23 HiroPro wrote: Let me read Bang Bang. I will come back after I have read his filter from that game. While you're rereading bang bang, have a look at rastaban as well. | ||
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Probulous
Australia3894 Posts
##Vote: Kurumi If we can only kill one person at a time during both day and night then can we speed up this particular day? Everyone will be voting Kurumi and if the whole 48hrs is used people are just going to AFK. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On July 19 2012 10:24 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: While you're rereading bang bang, have a look at rastaban as well. Explain your rastaban case to me please. I did not find your inital thing very strong. | ||
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Kurumi
Poland6130 Posts
On July 19 2012 10:21 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: I have had my vote stolen for the entire cycle. Also I really don't like the idea of not killing kurumi today. The last thing we need to do is give up an easy scum kill. When did you learn this? Mattchew told us about it during the day. On July 19 2012 10:25 Probulous wrote: OK, we kill Kurumi. ##Vote: Kurumi If we can only kill one person at a time during both day and night then can we speed up this particular day? Everyone will be voting Kurumi and if the whole 48hrs is used people are just going to AFK. Don't shorten the day! That's stupid. We're at Day 2 and we need to get organized. | ||
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Kurumi
Poland6130 Posts
I did not believe I would survive Day 1. I did not believe I would survive Night 1. I believe I can survive Day 2. | ||
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
On July 19 2012 10:19 layabout wrote: I have a very low opinion of town Zealos and that i something i think he could do if e hadn't been reading the thread. What you said he did was not accurate and this play from Zealos reminds me very much of how he acted at the end of Bang Bang mafia 2. Zealos said that he would vote for Blazinghand and not come back for the rest of the day. If he is town and he cares then he will come back and try to be productive there is nothing to stop him doing this as mafia but if he doesn't do it he is probably mafia and we should lynch him. Ok, I read his filter. I was too lazy to read the thread going on at the same time. I think your opinion of his town play is a little low - while he's certainly not what I would call very helpful and the shot seemed bad (I can't judge that well), he seems to have more involvement in the thread - and he did identify Zentor as scum correctly... | ||
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Chezinu
United States7447 Posts
Mafia Roles COE Chairman of the Board 1. Politician? 2. Redirector? 3. Chairman of Marketing 1. Vote Thief? 2. Bank? played that roled, that was imba! 3. Chez Roles Director of Communication 1. someone who can message other players 2. someone who can message other players and something special 3. someone who can message other players and the dead Can we get some mafia input on these roles? Will give + town rep and + Chez rep | ||
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sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
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Probulous
Australia3894 Posts
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HiroPro
United States2624 Posts
Sandroba, do you think zealos is scum? | ||
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sandroba
Canada4998 Posts
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Katina
United States454 Posts
On July 19 2012 10:21 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: I have had my vote stolen for the entire cycle. Also I really don't like the idea of not killing kurumi today. The last thing we need to do is give up an easy scum kill. It doesn't matter if your vote was stolen, just vote. Why would we give up an easy kill? It will narrow down the scum count, that's what we need to win as town. If Kurumi doesn't die people are just going to derp around and be unfocused because he IS still alive. With him dead that's one less distraction and we can focus on the other scum such as: Mattchew Foolishness Palmar Blazinghand Syllogism Bill Murrary | ||
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Katina
United States454 Posts
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Foolishness
United States3044 Posts
Think to yourself: is Bill Murray actually Bill Murray this game? It's an easy enough question to answer: no. Because he is mafia. The items that characterize Bill Murray's usual town play are absent from this game. Consequently, it is easy to see that this game matches his mafia behavior. The running joke on the forum about Bill Murray's alignment is that the more chaos he causes the more likely he is to be town. This has been seen over time as in the far past the games he broke the rules in he was usually town. Even today it is true, he is just much more mature about his posts. Simply put: Bill Murray is much more spammy in games where he is town. This should make sense; everyone in this game has played with Bill Murray as far as I can see. Recently in Holy Roman where Bill Murray was town, he busted out four pages of posts within the first day alone. In two games where Bill Murray is mafia, Mafia LIII and Mafia LVI, by the end of day 1 he had less than two pages worth of posts (LVI he had about 1, LIII had about 1.5). How many pages of posts does Bill Murray have this game at the end of day 1? Less than 1 page, and closer to half a page than a page. This may seem a bit out there, but it's certainly significant. When Bill Murray is town he posts twice as much as he does when he's mafia. That's a very noticable difference, especially for Bill Murray who can be very spammy. You shouldn't even have to check his filter to know that he had less than 1 page in his filter by the end of day 1. I know there was a point day 1 where someone made a post like, "wtf Bill Murray is in this game?". Bill Murray loves to ride the inactive train to mafia victory. Before we do some more comparison to other games, take a look at what Bill Murray has accomplished this game. Needless to say he has been all over the place. This is not uncommon of Bill Murray nor does it strongly indicate his alignment. But his best post this game is probably the one he made against me: On July 18 2012 17:51 Bill Murray wrote: I feel like WBG and I are clearly town for our reaction to Chezinu Rastaban is reading as town Foolishness/Syllogism/Kurumi (for sandroba unless he was trolling) as scum so far + one of BH/Chez I completely agree. Came back to see some more filters, saw this post, had to reply. I feel this is against Foolishness's meta... hence him being my #1 suspect. His wall posting has been lacking, and I feel like he has been trying to push from the background without committing because he is a lower level minion that doesn't want to lynch someone up the chain. I also dislike him attacking people for wasted votes, when his was useless. Hypocritical. He did voice his opinion, but did nothing about it... even worse than holding it in, because it is information without action. The issue here isn't about what's being said but about when it was said. He is essentially just restating arguments that were already laid out in full by wherebugsgo, syllogism, and sandroba. Bill Murray came late to the game. Has he provided something to the town that's genuine and fresh? No. He waits to see what the town thinks before trying to weigh in a contribution. But that aside what other posts has Bill Murray made that are of interest this game? One of my favorites is: On July 18 2012 13:53 Bill Murray wrote: ill vote BH then? I really don't care at this point; it's just day one. We all know apathy is a trait many mafia possess. Outside of that, it was interesting to watch him go from wanting to kill Chezinu without a second thought: On July 18 2012 13:56 Bill Murray wrote: I am ok with it, as if he is a cop, we kill chezinu To thinking he is town the next day: On July 19 2012 09:32 Bill Murray wrote: I will be the first to tell you that Mattchew voting me, or wanting to nuke me, is a complete nulltell, and is only a result of his stupidity. However, Chezinu is reading as town to me. Outside of all this there's nothing you can say about him. He's done nothing. He said gonzaw was making excuses but never said anything more. He's made a troll post or two. He's defended himself in the typical Bill Murray style (which he does both as town and mafia). He has not helped the town nor has he made any real effort other than jumping the bandwagon on myself. What's missing from his filter that should be there? Bill Murray when he is town always tries to help in one way or another. The typical way is by calling people out on their bullshit, Bill Murray style. But that hasn't happened this game. In games where he is town Bill Murray always makes long posts in between his one liners and ever-increasing troll posts. For example take this post from Holy Roman mafia (he was town). I spoilered it cause it's long: + Show Spoiler + On May 10 2012 21:20 Bill Murray wrote: I'm going to man up on this one, because I honestly feel I need to 1) you are misguided town 2) you are in a position of power therefore you are misguided town in a position of power therefore you can fuck us over with an indecision... or hurt us... and oh, baby, don't hurt me don't hurt me, no more. when you said "Your wall post is decent because it reveals a lot of information about you ", how does it do that? You said that it doesn't reveal information about who I'm posting about, but you contradict that later when you say you agree with my scumhunting and reads You say "As town, I must always be aware that someone playing scummy might still be a delusional town.", which is true, but it can work both ways. Someone who is not only acting pro-town, but acting pro-town as town, can be delusional town. look at yourself you're "all over the place" even in this one post, whereas I have not contradicted myself once in terms of how I feel about things. What people do, in terms of their actions, speak louder than their words. Acrofales, I expected you to write me off as town due to my effort, but your obtuseness, your parroting of my point earlier, and your inability to address that has me questioning having sent your name in as emperor, and you being town. I'm honestly regretting it right now, and I should have gone with my first instinct. I'd have rather voted for that annoying cube than you right now. Ok, why does scum have a good reason to shoot you? Because you were the only person making wall posts? You said yourself you're active as both town and scum... how, then, does that confirm you at all? hint: it doesn't It's definitely a good ability for scum to be able to blue snipe, even deductively, depending on who they flip I'm glad Zelblade called Acrofales a noobie before I did I was starting to feel like I'm just sleep deprived in having a village idiot read on him Acrofales, you think people are voting you because of your walls? They're not. They're voting you because of your claim. Unlike them, however, I don't stick to reads, and you definitely parroted me Yeah. You made a good catch on that, possibly. I actually speculated something about this, but I don't want to give away too much information. Ask me about it when I wake up. marry carolus mafnus The important part is how he explained his thought process on Acrofales. Note how direct he is in saying what he thinks and how he's actively trying to figure things out. This is the town Bill Murray. We all know that he loves the game and is quite competitive, so posts like these fit right in with what you would expect out of him. When he's mafia, posts like these are absent from his filter. He doesn't actively speak his thoughts or convey his feelings. And that's exactly what he's doing this game as well. He had other posts where he explained his thought process that game. One of them is very very long so I've omitted it (you'll find it if you look through his filter for that game. Remember he is town here). But you can always find the posts where he explains his reads. In this game it was in list form: + Show Spoiler + On May 11 2012 07:46 Bill Murray wrote: Alright. Acrofales may not be parroting me, and might be genuine still. Considering he is going to be the Emperor, there is no point in gunning there I am much more suspicious of OpZ/Carolus/Mattchew of the recent posters that I formerly had town reads on People that were scummy that aren't as bad include Forumite, Drazerk, and MG Mattchew - town A.T.L.A.S. - town P-Body - not touching with a 10 foot pole until someone will decode Laika - lurking dog Companion Cube - want to lynch if i dont see scumhunting; too focused on buddying OpZ - scum via meta Adam4167 - dont believe ive seen much from him, but ive seen him play as town before, so i should be ok U - town YES_THIS_IS_DOG - lurker/inactive The_Bard - good taste in music, but other than that, very null Carolus Magnus - scum QuickSilver7 - town Mr. Potatohead - lurking scum Itouchyou - lurking town Hassybaby - scum Drazerk - town Strongandbig - town Vaderseven - v7 is in this game? Quatol - lurker, one post saying they needed to read the thread Bluelightz - town Zelblade - town Sinani206 - town Kurumi - town erandor - town Acrofales - town MajuGarzett - town Forumite - town Jitsu - town bagmanager - scum Bill Murray - town so i have like 5-6 scum naturally... i am not 100%, but this is just general Another good example of his town play is from Death Factory mafia. It's easy to scroll through and find posts that he makes where he explains his thoughts about other players in the game: + Show Spoiler + On April 04 2012 20:24 Bill Murray wrote: Syllogism - I want to test Cephiro's hard-softclaim. He isn't outright claiming any investigative ability, whether, if he has it or not, it is multiple or single use, or anything, but his softclaim was as close to a guilty claim as I have seen in a long time. I don't want to not test that. PRP - Like syllo, I feel like his interactions with WBG, and the way he responded to the Cephiro ordeal, is pretty damning. I am willing to lynch him off of associative tells, but I'd like to flip syllo first. Tobon - Though he has been looking better, with his defense being "noone has made a case on me, therefore I can't be scum", and all the flak he has gotten, he has my eyebrows raised. Bluelightz - I really wouldn't mind losing him, even if he is town. He is not a VI, I don't think, so I feel like he is playing dumb as scum. I am not sure, however, that he isn't a little kid that wanders, lost, into the middle of the movie theatre... but with an AK. And again you can find other long posts that are always present in his town play: + Show Spoiler + On April 04 2012 20:37 Bill Murray wrote: Either way we need to get the above four out of here. I would want to wait until the lights come back on, and I'm kind of scared to do anything due to VE dying... If your interaction with syllo wasn't completely 100% scummy, I would feel like you were town WBG. I do have a leaned townread on you, but it's not 100% like I felt about Palmar, because you could potentially be throwing syllogism under the bus. I only say this because your questioning of him felt too good, to where it looked like an act. If you're really that good, and that was the building up, and prelude of a great case, bravo. We haven't been using our PoPs correctly. Now, I'm not a dictator, as I'm not confirmed or anything like an innocent child (definitely not bluelightz lol  ), so I'm not going to boss people around in a "Soviet Russia make you push or pull like want" way, only sort of. We need to hold people accountable, loosen up, and ask people questions. Scum will eventually become illogical... it wears on you being scum. Here's to hoping so, at least.reasons you should believe I'm town: 1) I actually want our next course of action to be to consolidate pushes or pulls around what Snarf wants to do, but I know the thread won't go for it, and would lash out against me, so I'm not touching it with a ten-foot-pole. 2) proposing someone else leads versus myself... kind of having second thoughts on that, though 3) personal meta of lack of night posting, whereas, as scum, i'd post in the night /wifom Honestly, though, I can't really be sure snarfs is town... 1) Godfather 2) I could be naive 4) I could be ... no, VE flipped town... I can't be insane... not in the game at least :D ...A role changing ability, or busdriver only the first two are valid, where my ability was day use However, I feel comfortable leading myself, if you all aren't satisfied listening to Snarfs. I'm not saying to not scumhunt, and to turn into sheep. I'm just saying that people are really looking to be prone to wasting their pushes and pulls without any sense of order, which allows for scum to blend in, and that should be our first mission as a town to prevent If you look at his mafia games, in particular, Area LIII and LVI, you'll find these long posts are absent. For instance in LVI his longest post was a nice little: On June 30 2012 19:32 Bill Murray wrote: Acrofales, it's not OMGUS when I have reasoning You have chainsawed You have also set up a chance for a weak ass switch to the BW on BKExe scummy as fuck ##unvote ##vote acro Granted he did get shot night 1. In LIII his longest post was: On April 27 2012 14:14 Bill Murray wrote: There is someone who doesn't care who dies today, as long as it is not scum. A person who was all over VE, who layabout himself suspected. MG. Other people I would like to lynch include Sentinel, for a case detailed by Gonzaw, and St. Daniel for his activity elsewhere, but not here (though he might be a power role). MG is wording this like a politician. He knows defense is overrated, but that isn't the point. He isn't going to defend him anyways. He has been uncaring, even for a no lynch His name is MidnightGladius. ##Vote: MidnightGladius Which is nowhere near of the calibre that you see in his town games. Furthermore you can see in this accusation post (remember he is mafia this game) that he only accused MG after others had gone after him (he says so himself in this post). This is easy to see from his filter in that game because this is the first time he's ever talked about MG. This is exactly what he's done this game. He doesn't make any mention of me, but once a handful of people say I'm mafia he immediately hops aboard the train trying to contribute. Exactly what he did as mafia in LIII with MidnightGladius. Summary of why Bill Murray is mafia: 1) Overall inactivity. He hasn't done anything this game. Do any of the posts he's made stick out at you as memorable? 2) Spam level. He's had zero spam this game. There is a noticeable difference in his spamminess when he is town and mafia. This game it is consistent with his mafia play. 3) No long posts. When Bill Murray is town, he makes posts that are paragraphs long. When he is mafia he never does such a thing. This game he hasn't made a post longer than ~5 sentences. 4) Lack of thoughts or accusations. When he is town he is not afraid to call someone out or make a long (relative to him) accusation post. When he is mafia he is all aboard the sheep train. He even said in a post that he is sheeping and in another post that he thinks sheeping is good for the town. Obviously have to take care of more pressing mafia first. ##Vote: Kurumi | ||
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