Newbie Mini Mafia XX

On July 03 2012 00:56 Hopeless1der wrote:
Thats 12 right? Gogogo



First post ever eh? I smell a smurf!

Why on earth did you even post that scenario stuff about a VT fake-claiming a DT or blue? There was absolutely no indication that anyone had even planned on that (especially considering you had the first post). If anything, you have just shown people something they can do (to the detriment of the town). And why go through the casework? It's just fluff and you know it. This is very much a post looking like a contribution, while being a non-contribution, or even an anti-contribution.

Yourharry, you should do more than OMGUS. You are definitely rivaling, for scumminess, against lazer.

Why are you promoting your first post as a discussion starter? It isn't. It is an attempt to brainwash unsuspecting townies and get us talking about useless things. I commend him for shutting your down your post with this authority.

In terms of day1, i don't think setting a tone on lynching lurkers is necessarily a bad thing. should we decide on lynching a lurker, the lurkers will feel a need to speak up in order to avoid getting the lynch. In other words, saying "let's lynch lurkers" promotes discussion. And "to make a point" states exactly that. "speak up or die."

Actually, for that matter, I wish we would leave alone all the initial burst of posting, the entire purpose is to get people talking

If the town has the slightest chance in hell this game, then people will see the sense in the responses I've already made.

I'm much more careful when I'm playing scum. I need to work on consistency, really.

I am not sure if you missed it, but I explained my reasoning for placing my vote on Hopeless1der. I will summarize here:

1. Hint of motivation to start a band wagon against a player who may have contradicted himself. (slightly scummy)
2. To see his and others' response (not related to scuminess)

Jingle is telling me that I should not have done that. In fact he is saying that I am scum because:

A. He thinks I am trying to mislynch. (False)
B. I am not participating in case based on substantial evidence (True, but not my fault probably)

I am currently skimming the new posts and I find TMG suspicious. While his English may not be perfect, he has completed games elsewhere. I don't think it is normal for him to feel intimidated to play this game in this game as town.

So either he's lying, which means he's probably mafia.
Or he's telling the truth, which means he's probably mafia as well.

I also think that your logic in giving rabbitz, TMG and Makin town reads is flawed. My case against Mackin already speaks for itself, but rabbitz's last minute vote switch occurred when Hopeless was already set to lynch. Even if he hadn't switched, Hopeless would still have been lynched because he hit 5 votes first. His vote changed nothing. You could even argue that it was an attempt at being on the correct lynch to grab townie cred if you wanted to.

No, maybe either Lazer or you want to bus hopeless for townie cred if only either 1 of you are mafia? Most of all you won't look good at all had you casted that last minute vote on Lazer if he was townie.

When Evul voted it was 5-5 with advantage for Hopeless because he reached 5 first, Evul voting Hopeless didnt decide the lynch but secured the lynch

but look, if you kept your vote on jingle for example, Mackin or Khorrus could "magically" apear and vote for Lazer

but by voting on Hopeless, the two of them needed to vote for lazer.. and i couldn't see Khorrus returning

What? Do you mind explaining what you thought I meant?

I stand corrected. Evul's vote was 13 minutes before the deadline, and as he admits, he thought it was the last vote possible. He's basically admitting that his vote was useless, still he felt inclined to switch his vote. Combined with the fact that his previous postings do not talk about his preference for lazer vs. hopeless lynch. In fact, he never really brings up his reads on either player. The act of suddenly changing his vote last minute, when hopeless lynch was already evident, resembles classic case of bussing and is scummy.

However, you always track mafia players to whom they are using their power on, not to the kill.

In the event a mafia player does NOT use his role, he will be tracked to the kill target.

But, where did that suspicion on me go? For a moment there, on page 10, there was suspicion on me and poof... It suddenly vanished? Maybe both of them went to sleep after they posted that, they sure left in a hurry

caught up and evul has wasted a hell of a lot of time talking about circumstance/hypothetical scenarios about D1, despite the fact that we have passed day 1.

He also tried the if this, then that bullshit. I don't really see what town motivation would cause this, but as a scum, it's trying to survive without an analytical basis.

Tracked EvulRabbit, knew he was DT. Confirmed.

(Your seemed worried for no reason N1 >_>)

I am actually quite suspicious about you, Zen_Man. You have based all your arguments against Lazermonkey on the assumption you know how Mafia plays. You claim repeatedly that mafia tends to do that and this and therefore Lazer is very suspicious. You do this rather than analyzing Lazer's post in a sense where you point out the flaws in Lazer's argumentation and where these flaws might bring the town later on in the game.

or I will end you

if town dont play unbelieveable bad.

The only thing bad about my play seems to be my lurking, and my vote on lazer. If you take away lurking, almost half of the players voted for lazer as well.

No, i havent played at all, because there was no reason, and i thougt that mafia would concede. As you dont seem to be understanding this, i will not continue this anymore.

Evul, JieXian is saying that the logical choice for you if you are scum and Lazer is town was to vote for Hopeless because if you hadn't and Lazer flipped green, you would have looked quite scummy, and not only would Hopeless have had a high chance of being lynched the next day anyway, you would also be compromised and under heavy scrutiny.

everyone who voted Lazer is either dead or confirmed town.

This is very scummy. You are trying to downplay the fact that we have misslynched Release and was about to misslynch Zen_Man. Will this be your argument when Bass flips miller aswell?

This check was not useless. If someone would flip miller, we can just auto-lynch Bass. But that will not happend as Bass is miller.

People, either get of this stupid bandwagon on Bass or at least say why you think he should be lynched

I'm not the only one around here who thinks that very late vote switches like that can be suspicious. Just look at the opinions of others in this game and the whole TL mafia forum. We'll just have to disagree about this point.

That I value scummy posting more than I value meta. Does that mean I think meta is completely useless? No, I never said that. I made that point because Jingle was relying only on meta in his defense of Hopeless. This was a case of scummy posting vs meta. When I agreed with Hapa's case, it was because Hopeless was lying and dodging. The meta that Hapa used was in conjunction with the scummy posting. So again I state; I voted for Hopeless because of the lying and dodging, but the meta case against him helped a little as well. I was perfectly willing to vote him even without the meta case.

I did not apologise for pushing him. I apologised if he felt that I was being unfair/overly aggressive in my push. As for my pressuring him and then letting it go, you'll see that my main point against him was his being indecisive. When he actually had a stance on players, I eased off of him, but pretty much everyone here can see he hasn't been around lately, which is why I started posting about him again. This isn't indecision, this is updating my reads based on his behaviour. I criticised hi reads for being indecisive because they were full of "well he could be scum because of A but he might be town because of B ".

As for Mackin, again, read what I posted earlier in this reply. I pushed him because he was being very indecisive, then he actually posted his stance, so I backed off of him. If I had continued hounding him on my original points after that point in time, I would have been guilty of tunneling him. Also, I have been lynching the more suspicious person, (started on TMG, switched to Hopeless after all the evidence against him, started on Mackin and switched to Zen Man because he seemed to refuse to defend himself properly) I can't help it if I'm active when most others are not. By the time I can come on to check the thread, a lot of my suspicions have already been posted.

No, he is implying that since we were both wrong about Zen and Release, regular scum hunting is bad. Note also that he did in fact IGNORE that we managed to lynch Hope based on regular scum hunting. So basically we have had 50% success with regular scum hunting. 50% chance of success, where have I heard that before...hmmm?

He said in his post that if we don't lynch into Bass at all, we have wasted one check which is false. Yes, if we don't get the miller, this check will be useless(assuming we don't lynch bass and he flips scum...). Untill then, the check is not useless. He did in fact even say this:

So basically we have had 50% success with regular scum hunting.

His report, which will be his last, is too strong to go to a waste. We need to lynch Bass. Now or later.

Zen wasn't lynched. It's stupid to say that Release would've been dead if Zen would have flipped green. Becuase this isn't true.

Yes, but you are assuming that Release would've been auto-lynched in case if Zen_Man would've flipped green.

What are you talking about? I did not pressure him once, I pressured him twice, and he reacted to the pressure by giving us his stance, which is what I wanted. "I won't pressure him"? I did, and he reacted. I said to further pressure him based on my points against him at the time (ie his indecisiveness) would be tunneling. He gave me his stance, pressuring him further based on indecisiveness would have been repeating myself at the time.

Valid points against me, but could be playing smart mafia trying to lynch the player with some weaknesses in play (aka me). If I get lynched please be careful of him as I'm undecided of why he's pushing me so hard. I really have nothing to hide so if I'm continually pushed I will be suspicious.

I don't believe the tone of the post indicated that I found him all that suspicious, though you may argue it's "juggling".

Currently I'm still waiting on Release to actually post something about the meta case laid against him by Hapa, rather than talk about his little breadcrumb. He never actually said anything in his defense, he just counter cased Hapa. I'm off to bed now, so since there is still half of day 2 to go, I will

##Vote The_Zen_Man

Subject to change should he actually post something decent by the time I'm around again of course.

But we don't know he is townie. Saying that town players can accidentally act scummy as a defense of said players just gives mafia the chance to hide behind this sort of cover. So I don't agree with what you are saying here.

Damn Hapa. All it took was tea and cakes?

You wouldn't say that if you'd ever seen me cut loose.

Him never voting or FOSing Mackin was a really strong point that you didn't mention until I brought it up later.

you're officially not(?) "in" yet! =O