EPToh god damn /in to this baby
and I will not be replaced !
Movie Star Mini Mafia!
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marvellosity
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oh god damn /in to this baby and I will not be replaced ! | ||
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On June 20 2012 23:46 risk.nuke wrote: the SK in this setup is not immune to nightkills, correct? Says in the setup what SK can and can't have  Immunity to 1kp or innocent to DT checks | ||
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On June 21 2012 12:33 johnnywup wrote: thought of coming back from the dead to /in, but i have to send my computer in for repairs so no-go for me  johnnyyyyyyy <3 | ||
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On June 22 2012 02:07 grush57 wrote: I thought the I not will be replaced was like you didn't want to be a replacement? that's what reading the OP is for dear  | ||
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On June 22 2012 07:14 VisceraEyes wrote: Let's try and figure out a way to figure out if we're town right here and right now... :/ Because it's going to help me a lot if I can trust you. I now know you're a fucking beast as scum. What do you suggest? you may quiz me and i will answer your questions. | ||
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On June 22 2012 07:19 VisceraEyes wrote: TOWN God, that was easy. Who's next? .........what kind of questions? Obviously that's what I meant marvel LOL well, that part of the figuring out bit I thought I'd leave to you. | ||
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On June 22 2012 07:22 Mattchew wrote: Hi All, I want MrZentor dead. Marv, if you were to pick out the differences in your scum play and your town play, what would you point to? I like this question a lot. I think there are a couple of possible tells. But tell me what you think first. | ||
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No. | ||
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On June 22 2012 07:31 VisceraEyes wrote: The point of the self-evaluation was to see if you left anything out - obviously we can go and look for ourselves Marv, and we'll have our own opinion...but for you to turn the question around and ask for his answer first is incredibly scummy and immediately forces me to not trust you. here's a clue count how many times anyone said i said or even hinted at anything scummy in LV see the pressure i was under at the start in magic at the start for wanting to shoot NT off the bat compare to current situation profit | ||
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Enough said really. | ||
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And I have at least partly answered the question, you're just not on the ball enough to have worked it out yet. | ||
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On June 22 2012 08:41 Zephirdd wrote: This is a semi-closed setup. If there are 13 players, it's possible that 12 are medics and 1 is a scum. Of course that's retarded as fuck, but nothing is concrete and we shouldn't think "but it's not common to 2 of X" exist ever. at all. In fact, we can't even confirm the existence of a SK until after the night phase. I'm not sure about Millers instaclaiming. While it clears path for cops(as it's pretty obvious that they will show red), it also reduces the number of possible blues, making it easier for scum. At least what I understood from the setup is that Millers can't be blues. If anything, Millers should be breadcrumbing and claiming in case a cop calls them guilty. For all other purposes, they should be *Vanilla*(unclaimed, aka. possible blue) to make it harder for mafia to shoot into blues. Thanks, I will pass this on to my scumbuddies immediately. | ||
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And in the nested quote it states quite clearly there weren't any accusations... that's twice this game now you've misrepresented something, wilfully or not. i'm watching you | ||
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On June 22 2012 09:25 Zephirdd wrote: What do you expect me to comment on? The stupid marvellosity push that is going on atm? Whether he flips scum or town, I'll say that whatever the fuck is going here is just play stupid. I guess it does provide some discussion, but it's mostly fingerpointing and going 'ZOMG HE PLAYD GOOD SCUMZ' About claims(ie miller claims), I'm with probulous. Let's not reduce the number of possible blues so early. A good miller should show himself to be town, and a good cop should realize when he investigates a miller. I never liked early claims anyway. If he felt it wise to investigate him in the first place, then how would he realise when he investigates a miller? That makes zero sense. | ||
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On June 20 2012 06:58 wherebugsgo wrote: Ignoring the day 1 vig fake claim we had the VE miller claim, which was 100% the correct play to do. VE handled the situation well and anyone who was even half reading the thread should have realized that VE was more likely to be town than scum in that situation. | ||
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On June 22 2012 09:34 VisceraEyes wrote: STOP TALKING ABOUT MILLER CLAIMS Now, Marv, my accusation was that you were being defensive when I wasn't attacking you. That's the accusation. I accused you of being overly defensive. What part about that is 'misrepresenting' what happened in that game? what are you talking about? in LV I was being defensive when you weren't actually attacking me? so what? you are attacking me here, so what's that got to do with this game? | ||
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On June 22 2012 09:20 VisceraEyes wrote: :OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO Anyways look what I found guys! This was his defense in LV, the Zim themed large we were just in. Marv DOMINATED that game as scum, and look at what his first act of the game was (upon replacing in)! It was using his "meta" as a personalized defense against my accusations. Look at his defense this game! Oddly enough, it's a personalized "meta" defense again! Marv, your response? This is the second misrepresentation. Trying to compare a 'defence' in a game where I wasn't accused to my defence this game where I am in fact accused First misrepresentation: On June 22 2012 07:34 marvellosity wrote: here's a clue count how many times anyone said i said or even hinted at anything scummy in LV see the pressure i was under at the start in magic at the start for wanting to shoot NT off the bat compare to current situation profit On June 22 2012 08:57 VisceraEyes wrote: Probulous, what did you see when you went back and read Magic? When I went back, all I saw was a completely different opening strategy. I mean, he could just be doing a fast-expand or something, but it's looking kinda cheesy to me. :/ I clearly said what I was referring to in Magic and yet you try to pretend that you went and looked and didn't find anything. Despite the fact I said exactly what I was referring to. | ||
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On June 22 2012 09:44 VisceraEyes wrote: Marv, I find myself to be terribly entertaining, so you're going to have to surround that statement with some sort of context if you want me to understand what you mean. Now, my argument isn't about you defending yourself for the same reason. My argument is that you're defending yourself in the same fashion...using meta. You're encouraging everyone to leave the thread and go read other games. Why? one was a defence, one was not. do you see yet? i didn't encourage people to leave the thread to read other games. i said i never said anything scummy in LV and I pointed out explicitly the scummy thing I was pressured for in magic. the whole original question was on meta, and now you're pushing me for defending on meta? really? | ||
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On June 22 2012 09:46 Zephirdd wrote: This would be true, when a miller could actually be mixed with a role(ie. miller vig, miller medic or stuff). Here, a Miller is a confirmed non-blue. A confirmed non-blue reduces the number of targets for scum. A miller claim is scummy in itself, and it reduces the number of potential targets for the scum to snipe. I don't want to see blues dead and have to deal with millers. If a scum is pro-town, then that scum is substantially going against his wincon. Seriously, I'm yet to see a scum that actually contributes positively to town. Late-claiming millers will be analyzed and lynched if the players decide on a majority. Don't spill bullshit, you can't simply policy lynch someone when there are drawbacks for early miller claims. As I see now, it's either claim miller now - have blues be more vulnerable - and be "immune" to cops, or claim miller later IF and ONLY IF you are investigated by a cop, and we can use the information at that time, just like it would be done in any other setup with unreliable cops(with framers, sanity or other stuff). I'd prefer millers to stay shut and protect our blues. except you need to just be quiet because you're wrong. | ||
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On June 22 2012 09:46 Probulous wrote: @Marv, do you think VE is scum? I think he's pushing me dodgily. Haven't worked out if it's scummy or VE just being VE yet. | ||
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On June 22 2012 09:47 VisceraEyes wrote: I "pretend" that I went and didn't find anything? I went and looked and I said EXACTLY what I found. I don't care about you wanting to shoot NT, nothing similar has happened this game to compare it to. When I went back, I found what I was looking for - you acting like a townie. You haven't done that this game. When I went and looked at your scum game, I found something there too - you defending yourself needlessly with meta. You HAVE done that this game. These aren't misrepresentations, they're observations I'm making. If you don't like it, STOP TELLING PEOPLE TO GO READ YOUR PREVIOUS GAMES. I've quite clearly stated I am not, stop it. The similar thing, VE, is that I wasn't afraid of saying something that was scummy in that game. In this game, unless you underestimate me which I think you do not, you should be aware that I know making a sidestep to Mattchew's question could be viewed scummily, and I'd avoid it like the fucking plague if I were scum. | ||
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On June 22 2012 09:52 Zephirdd wrote: Or maybe you could enlighten me why am I wrong, why is it bad that I want to protect possible blues, when the setup is specifically designed to give scum stronger powers when town has stronger powers. everyone in the game apart from you (even prob isn't really arguing it) thinks so. I quoted wbg from his analysis last game saying claiming miller is 100% the right reason. you know, the guy who hosts and thinks about this setup the most. sloosh also covers it nicely. you may think you are right but you need to drop it, because miller claims past day 1 will be policy lynched. | ||
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b) because i get information from who and how i'm pushed | ||
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Yeah Prob. After 2 pages discussing the same thing I'm doing a bang up job of moving on to other things. What I was alluding to is further up on this page ^ "The similar thing, VE, is that I wasn't afraid of saying something that was scummy in that game. In this game, unless you underestimate me which I think you do not, you should be aware that I know making a sidestep to Mattchew's question could be viewed scummily, and I'd avoid it like the fucking plague if I were scum." re: 5) - just because i find something suspicious, doesn't mean I leap into thinking someone is scum. it means it's marked down, to be accrued or otherwise with further evidence. | ||
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if I were scum I'd have thought more before answering matt's question. even if this conversation has been quite interesting | ||
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On June 22 2012 16:46 rastaban wrote: Now his day 1 "meta" is to spam 1 liners so I personally wouldn't mind him getting lynched if there isn't a better candidate What an exceptionally stupid thing to say, well done. | ||
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On June 22 2012 16:46 rastaban wrote: So marv would you mind answering the original question ( as leading as it may be) about what you feel are your tells, and second who do you feel is most likely scum? Since you asked so nicely... I'm not really sure. I'm more careful as scum. Don't get myself into situations like these I try to play similarly as scum as to town, so meh. More carefree with my thoughts as town I guess.I still think VE is dodgy. Probably overestimating him as usual, but I feel like he should have been able to get a better grasp on me than this, and it makes me suspicious that he hasn't. Don't really blame Probulous so much. Not particularly moved by the pressure on slOosh, from what I've seen of him he's usually cautious like this, especially on day 1. Unsure where to place Zeph because of his dumb posting on millers, will wait for further content. Lack of relevancy at the moment. Somewhat suspicious because of the number of posts --> 0 content. Zentor is abdicating responsibility for providing reads until tomorrow which isn't acceptable. It feels like he's trying to whimper his way into day 2. Response to pressure pretty poor (i momentarily took off my hypocrite hat). At the moment I would favour him to be lynched. | ||
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Really need to hear from von klaust. He was active and contributory in his newbie game. As his username was different then, you can find his filter here. | ||
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I agree it wasn't ideal and if I had my time again I'd just answer the question the first time. Also don't blame me for taking the focus off others. I didn't force you to make your entire post about me, you could have commented on anything else, yet you chose not to. | ||
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On June 22 2012 23:03 vonKlaust II wrote: 1. You agree with the statement that sidestepping Mattchews question could be viewed as scummy. 2. You would avoid doing that as scum i.e. it would point to you being scum. You agree both that it would seem scummy and that it actually is scummy. Still you did it. It doesn't make point from any perspecive and makes me think you're just trying to fill holes you made with bad play. I didn't make a conscious decision to go 'lol gonna appear scummy now'. I read Matt's post and made a reply to it without giving it that much thought. The point being I give every post I make as scum due thought. | ||
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From one of the forum's most prolific observers in LV On June 19 2012 10:51 jaj22 wrote: Honestly I've seen you play scummier as town So basically you attack me for not posting an answer that you find acceptable even though it is true: On June 22 2012 22:49 vonKlaust II wrote: And sure, you kinda answered the question but I don't think that "I play more care free as town" really counts as a proper answer. Escpecially not after all that slithering. Most people are more careful as scum and your answer pretty much doesn't say anything about your actuall play. And now you attack me for saying I have very few differences. Right, I have very few differences, and having elaborated on the ones that exist, you don't like them. Keep trying | ||
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On June 22 2012 23:13 vonKlaust II wrote: I interpret this post. As saying that you don't know anything about what differentiates your scumplay and your townplay. I know you say "very few" and that could indicate that you know of a few, but since you haven't actually posted what those would be and for the fact that you have once and once again given very diffuse answers about your scum and town play(i.e. "I play more carefree as town) I don't think that would be a proper interpretation. I interprate this as two statements about what you know about your play that is contrary to one another. How can you not see what I've highlighted (in nested too) is absolutely consistent?! Of course the answers are 'diffuse' given there aren't glaring differences given the quality of my scum play... | ||
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On June 23 2012 00:21 VisceraEyes wrote: There are differences marv. For instance, townMarv is interested in finding scum. scumMarv is interested in lynching townies. Also, both townMarv and scumMarv are good enough to realize that I'm very obviously town in this game, so the fact that you're calling me "dodgy" still (not scummy, not scum, not suspicious, not suspect....."dodgy") just confirms that you're not interested in finding scum today. For that, you're gonna die friend. Sorry. *shrug* This is insidious, confirming/calling yourself as town play, while calling anyone who is suspicious of you scummy. Buddy 'friend' 'sorry' justification at the end. Extremely weak. That is not town play. "Also both townVE and scumVE are good enough to realise that my defence is clearly townie this game, so the fact that you persist in tunneling me just confirms you're not interested in finding scum today. For that, you're gonna die friend. Sorry. *shrug*" SEE WHAT I DID THAR | ||
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On June 23 2012 04:48 VisceraEyes wrote: Marv do you think I'm scum? Because your last post is very sarcastic and I honestly can't tell what you're actually thinking. This is what I'm talking about when I say you're not playing a townie game this game sir. Obviously, I still love where my vote is, and I encourage anyone who hasn't to go read over Marv's filter and join me in lynching him for the good of the town! Yep, you're currently my #1 read re: rastaban - he posted rather fluffily in Bang bang and gonzaw caught him being flippity floppity about him (i agreed with gonzaw's case in hindsight... having shot him first of course :/) he was a scumread for me then but as the game went on he became more townie. Not really comfortable lynching him at this stage | ||
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marvellosity
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Basically he picked up on something that shouldn't have been *that* important, and crusaded/tunneled on it ad infinitum. He hasn't paused to look for the alternative explanation, he's just blindly going down the same alley. I think a townplaying VE would be more actively considering the idea that I was town rather than pushing me like he is. Gonna get a bit egotistical for a minute - it feels like he's trying to get rid of me at an opportune moment on the back of something that he's exploded out of proportion. I got tunneled into oblivion by Blazinghand in LI and I get a totally different feeling about it now. There I had a clear townread on BH because of the nature of it. Every time I see VE post I see him try to twist my words a little. I said this about meapak in bang bang - it's either weak ass townie play or it's scummy play, and I think it's scummy play. | ||
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I'm clearly saying that the manner you've gone about going after me is what I find bad, not the fact taht you've gone after me. For example Probulous I see only honest motivations logically explained. This post is once again you twisting what I'm saying, and hopefully people can see this. Try considering I'm town, yes? | ||
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I said that I have the unique perspective of knowing my alignment where others do not. Just that subtle little twisting of my words into negative connotations. | ||
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*where did I say the fact I was town and you were targetting me therefore makes you scum | ||
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your posts are just littered with insidious phrases like this. | ||
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Because you really are doing a fucking awful job of working things out. If you'd like me to take 'fucking' out to preserve your sensibilities then I will. But it will remain true. | ||
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On June 23 2012 07:18 VisceraEyes wrote: Like, you know me. You know my town play, and you KNOW this is it. How many times have I correctly called your alignment? 1? When I was SCUM in LV and KNEW your alignment? I did NOT vote lynch you in LI when you were scum You were my only incorrect read in Magic when I called you scum and you were not I lynched you in LIII when you were town How the fuck do I know what your town play is? | ||
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On June 23 2012 07:07 marvellosity wrote: I don't know how to push my VE read because a lot of it is based on the fact that I know my alignment 100% and no-one else does. Basically he picked up on something that shouldn't have been *that* important, and crusaded/tunneled on it ad infinitum. He hasn't paused to look for the alternative explanation, he's just blindly going down the same alley. I think a townplaying VE would be more actively considering the idea that I was town rather than pushing me like he is. Gonna get a bit egotistical for a minute - it feels like he's trying to get rid of me at an opportune moment on the back of something that he's exploded out of proportion. I got tunneled into oblivion by Blazinghand in LI and I get a totally different feeling about it now. There I had a clear townread on BH because of the nature of it. Every time I see VE post I see him try to twist my words a little. I said this about meapak in bang bang - it's either weak ass townie play or it's scummy play, and I think it's scummy play. | ||
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1) i think useful information is to be had from the furore that was caused 2) i'd still not prefer for it to have been the case, because actually i don't revel in stuff like this | ||
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Extremely fresh in my mind is the start of LV when BOTH Sinensis and BH both, independently, targeted grush57 as a committed target of their policy lynch. | ||
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On June 23 2012 07:56 VisceraEyes wrote: Yeah, I'd rather lynch risk.nuke than Zentor prplhz, what do you think of risk.nuke? *nonaggression pact* why risk over zentor? | ||
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risk got lynched easily day 3 or something as town and I wanna find out if it's because he did what he's doing now | ||
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would you rather have risk or zentor with you day 2 to smoke out scum? | ||
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##Vote: MrZentor | ||
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New tinfoilhatguy. | ||
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Had a look through Zentor's filter. His vote on me was the first time he mentioned me at all (other than the general 'how intense' comment), and worse it was in response to Zephirdd's comment about scum bussing. 'One of them has to die' - why? no reasoning. I first got my anti-town read on Zentor in Bang Bang when he mysteriously lumped Toad into his list of scumreads without having previously mentioned him, because other people had done so. So pretty satisfied with where my vote is right now. | ||
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On June 23 2012 23:20 MrZentor wrote: I want to lynch marvellosity, because it will provide a lot of information about VE's role. I switched from my they're both innocent theory to the at least one is probably mafia theory, because of they're both pretty good players, and I don't think both of them are wrong. Just disgusting. | ||
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On June 23 2012 23:20 MrZentor wrote: There are two huge reasons you shouldn't kill me. 1. You'll go into day 2 with very little information compared to how much you would have if you lynched marvellosity, because me dying and flipping my townie role tells you basically nothing. good god twice in the same post | ||
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On June 23 2012 01:06 rastaban wrote: Yeah bang bang that just wrapped up, check out my post on cephiro, which nearly everyone ignored based on his few early game posts but in the end it was found out he was mafia. I think you are dismissing it way to fast. I may have played up bits to fit the setting but I stand by what I said, I really don't see town swapping votes like that with no reason and the sudden defense of him is quite astounding to me. I'd like to know exactly what you meant by that, rastaban | ||
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Other than LI, could you please tell me a couple of scum games you've played recently? | ||
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But it's not the case. | ||
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On June 24 2012 05:20 rastaban wrote: @Shraft and Prplhz What do you think of my post defending Zephirdd: Zephirdd is Pretty likely town, when he asked about by previous games he followed up by looking into the case and linked my previous case so others could review as well, that is a pretty town aligned action in my opinion and his last comment isn't something scum would say. It invites attention, but a townie just wants to find the truth and not be played. I liken it to my statement last game where I jokingly said that ace had rigged the game so that all lurkers were scum. It was half a joke but also out there to get people to think in that direction if things started getting fishy. Do you think mafia would have followed up on something like that? When I played mafia a long time ago I almost never went through players past games as it was pointless since I knew they were town. I seriously need an explanation for some of this. What do you mean by his last comment isn't something scum would say? looking at his filter his last comment is explaining appeal to emotion to me as an acronoym. Are you talking about this? The fact you never went through past players game just means you're lazy as mafia. Don't attribute this to anyone who might play mafia. | ||
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seriously, what the fuck | ||
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On June 24 2012 07:00 prplhz wrote: i'm pretty sure he'll flip zentor so yes he will also lol | ||
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reconvene on thinking later folks | ||
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On June 25 2012 08:39 Zephirdd wrote: VE spent his day1 tunneling on you. Why would mafia shoot VE? Are you mafia? While we're at it, did VE carry the scum kill so a jailer blocked him? huh? I came to the conclusion eventually VE was probably town, and other people in the thread have said VE was playing pro town and I was suspicious for being suspicious of him. Fairly obvious why mafia would shoot him thusly don't understand the final question | ||
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On June 23 2012 07:36 marvellosity wrote: fuck you're probably town | ||
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On June 23 2012 10:15 risk.nuke wrote: So my first thought is what two players are yelling the loudest at eachother. It's Vicera and Marv. So naturally my first assumption would be to remove both of those from my day 1 lynch pool. While Vicera doubtlessly seems like the towniest townie ever towned marv seems a bit scummy. Partly because how his inabillity to see how Vicera is town. | ||
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On June 23 2012 07:36 marvellosity wrote: fuck you're probably town On June 23 2012 07:45 Probulous wrote: Well Marv seeing the light. | ||
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On June 25 2012 08:58 slOosh wrote: Let's not WIFOM at who we would shoot as scum. It won't produce anything substantial and allows scum to blend in and derails thread from what is truly important: hunting and lynching scum. Since there is finally some thread activity going on, I'll be happy to sit down and think carefully what the heck is going on. Probulous I'm still unhappy about your play this game, starting with the oversight in your Zentor vote. Of course this could be an honest mistake so I'm gonna sit on it for now. Still waiting for von Klaust as well. If you ignore me I'ma hound you down. You need to stop doing this. You keep asking people about Probulous and telling him you're suspicious, but all you're willing to say is that you didn't like his Zentor vote oversight. Either make a case or don't. Stop expecting others to answer for you, or telling Probulous he's suspicious with no way to make a defence as you won't actually make a case. | ||
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On June 25 2012 08:29 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I'm uncertain. If such an event took place this night, I have not sent PM's about it. WBG will answer you once he gets online. rastaban was just saying we currently don't know what ppl are told | ||
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On June 25 2012 09:22 prplhz wrote: meh marv why do you give a shit what risk and prob say why don't you ask questions that make sense the point was that if several people had expressed a townread on arguably the strongest scumhunter in the game, then assuming he was both shot and saved isn't very much of a stretch | ||
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back to le drawing board. | ||
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On June 25 2012 19:49 prplhz wrote: If you guys read the thread then it should be pretty obvious that slOosh jailed me last night. Tried to find what you were talking about, did not. Care to enlighten? | ||
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On June 25 2012 08:58 slOosh wrote: Since there is finally some thread activity going on, I'll be happy to sit down and think carefully what the heck is going on. kinda irritating we never got to hear any more on this :/ | ||
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On June 25 2012 13:12 Probulous wrote: This is so annoying >< The only two people who mention the removal of SK as a possibility end up dying at the new deadline. The fact is, unless someone claims a night 1 vig shot, there is a SK. If either of these guys were alive, they would be pretty much guaranteed not to be the SK. Fate, why do you laugh at me Don't understand this line of reasoning at all. Just seems completely naive. | ||
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+ Show Spoiler + On June 25 2012 18:21 xsksc wrote: Well, first of all - since my predecessor went AWOL and I don't know what his thought process was, I might as well answer this instead. I'll try to keep this short - I don't like rastaban's play on day 1. His case on risk was pure filler, and this early post definitely stood out to me. I don't like this at all. His opinion is extremely safe - he puts himself in a position where he could safely vote for Marv in the future, but he doesn't actually commit to anything. He doesn't really tell us anything, he just says marv COULD be scum. He also says he feels there's been "too much" discussion on the subject of Marv, but then he goes on to ask Marv some more questions, and he doesn't try to raise another subject, which completely contradicts what he just said. What I find more concerning though, is his vote switch to MrZ. Here he says MrZ is null, and wants to give him more time. So he continues to push his #1 scum-read, fair enough. This is his post between that and his vote-switch. So MrZ has gone from being null to LYNCH HIM, because he changed his mind (changing your mind =/= scum), and the absurd theory that he's scum or a blue because he didn't /out. If he's so sure about his scum-read on risk, he should ABSOLUTELY push it, instead of taking the easy out on MrZ. For reference, I think this is why MrZ changed his mind. + Show Spoiler + On June 23 2012 11:20 Zephirdd wrote: Holy shit. Look at pages 16 and 17. I just solved this game. VE, marv are both scum bussing the F* out of each other. When was the last time this happened? I remember someone saying it was an "OP strategy". Wasn't it Toad/VE doing it? I don't quite remember. Someone said LI, is that it? Either way, if one of them flips scum, I'm sure as hell attacking the other. I thought the initial "attacks" were terrible for both parties, but at this point this all feels fabricated to me. TLDR I don't like Rastaman's day 1 play, I think it's downright scummy. On June 24 2012 02:40 vonKlaust II wrote: Right now though, my best bet would be Mr.Z I think. I don't really know about Rasta yet, but I'll check his filter out for myself and get back with my thoughts. But for now: ##Unvote ##Vote: MrZentor On June 24 2012 02:56 vonKlaust II wrote: EBWOP: Voted for Marv without really saying why we should do it. It wasn't you but your predecessor was dodgy. Practically the first time he mentions zentor and it's his 'best bet', votes him, no reasoning given. Later on condemns Zentor for voting me without saying why. Hypocritical play. | ||
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Given you're around. What do you make of me? as slOosh died, what do you think of Probulous? | ||
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I'm making my town tell on his emotion to a null tell. He proved in LI he can get all 'emotional' as scum. Firstly I just can't get over the way he pushed me. On June 22 2012 07:14 VisceraEyes wrote: Let's try and figure out a way to figure out if we're town right here and right now... :/ Because it's going to help me a lot if I can trust you. I now know you're a fucking beast as scum. What do you suggest? On June 22 2012 09:20 VisceraEyes wrote: This was his defense in LV, the Zim themed large we were just in. Marv DOMINATED that game as scum, and look at what his first act of the game was (upon replacing in)! It was using his "meta" as a personalized defense against my accusations. Look at his defense this game! Oddly enough, it's a personalized "meta" defense again! Marv, your response? Ok, so we've established he thinks I'm totes amazing scummer. It makes absolutely no sense to me how he thinks someone as good at scumplay as I am would get myself into this situation. xscsc summarised it quite nicely: On June 25 2012 22:17 xsksc wrote: Again, I'm gonna have to disagree with my predecessor here. People, including him, were pointing out that the way that you answered the question, and the argument following it, didn't make sense for a townie. However, it really doesn't make sense for scum either. Any remotely decent scum player is going to put 10x the thought into how they answer questions regarding their alignment and would never have answered that way, it draws wayyyyy too much negative attention, for no gain. I don't think you handled it the best way, but I think people need to realise that a bad play does not equal scum. This is the crux of it, and xcksc hasn't even seen my scumplay, but he understands. Yet VE who saw me trash town in LIV and LV as scum does not see it. On June 22 2012 09:51 VisceraEyes wrote: I don't underestimate you, which is why I know scumMarv wouldn't think twice about side-stepping the question. Take it as a compliment, not an affront. This doesn't add up. Clearly sidestepping Matt's question WAS NOT the correct scumplay. Just look at what's happened. There's a mental disconnect going on. On June 23 2012 00:21 VisceraEyes wrote: There are differences marv. For instance, townMarv is interested in finding scum. scumMarv is interested in lynching townies. Also, both townMarv and scumMarv are good enough to realize that I'm very obviously town in this game, so the fact that you're calling me "dodgy" still (not scummy, not scum, not suspicious, not suspect....."dodgy") just confirms that you're not interested in finding scum today. For that, you're gonna die friend. Sorry. *shrug* First paragraph is just trite, it says nothing. He's just explaining the wincon for a townie and scummer. I commented before on the 2nd part. Calling me out for finding him scummy, calling himself town. It's manipulative. On June 23 2012 07:11 VisceraEyes wrote: Like, honestly. Marvel is much better than this. He knows that me targeting him if he's town does not automatically make me scum. This is literally the DEFINITION of OMGUS. He literally just said "I know I'm town, so because VE is targeting me, he's scum" and has fabricated some kind of fantasy to justify calling me such. Marv is definitely my preference for lynch. He knows better. He's acting like he doesn't, but he does. When I accused him before, I wasn't calling him scum because I was town. I'd said I had the perspective of 100% knowing I was town that others did not. I simply did not say he was scum because he was accusing me. Twisted my words. On the day 1 lynch: Realising he's not gonna get me through, he turns his attention to Zentor. Subsequently: On June 24 2012 04:54 VisceraEyes wrote: risk do you think that scum only lurk? Because you're really only pushing people who aren't likely to push back. :/ Marv do your own meta research. I'm also feeling strange about the ease of this lynch. I also don't want to lynch Zentor. Can we lynch either risk or prpl? maybe Marv? This is where it all gets odd. He doesn't want to lynch Zentor, and lists 3 other people. Who doesn't he name? The other leading candidiate, rastaban. He is realistically the only alternative, but nothing. Compare - slOosh was trying really hard to get people to switch from Zentor to rastaban, but VE? nothing. Let's see if VE ever talks about rastaban: On June 23 2012 08:26 VisceraEyes wrote: @Snarfs Yeah, I'm null on rasta. He looks pretty townie to me too, but to be fair I've only skimmed the cases on him. I'll go read them in earnest and let you know what I think. This is it. Nothing else. He never lets us know what he thinks of the alternative lynch candidate, despite promising to, and despite saying he didn't want to lynch Zentor. It's a half-assed, not-real attempt. On June 24 2012 05:16 VisceraEyes wrote: Actually prpl, that post was good. I'm cool with a Zeph lynch if we can make that happen. Except VE never tries to make ANYTHING happen. He says this and disappears. I also feel like his pushing of prplhz is a sham. He came straight from LV where two townies pushed hard for a policy lynch on a player they disliked. He should know this isn't a scumtell. But it looks good to push someone on wanting a policy lynch like that, doesn't it? Conclusion: All his scumhunting is a sham. He knows and states I'm an excellent scum player, but somehow then thinks I would come into this game as scum and play scummily. He twists my words. He never talks about rastaban despite promising to, despite saying he didn't want to lynch Zentor and rastaban being the main alternative. In fact he never pushes any alternative. Pushes prplhz because it's an easy thing to do. I think VE is scum (or SK :D) | ||
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##Vote: VisceraEyes | ||
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On June 26 2012 01:27 VisceraEyes wrote: Marvel's case boils down to...what? What is the main point you'd like me to answer for Marvel? Because it looks to me like a huge post just trying to justify voting for me. There's nothing scummy in there, there's nothing alignment indicative, it's all just a bunch of stuff that you're twisting to justify voting for me. so yeah, if there's a specific problem you'd like me to answer for, feel free to clearly ask me while I'm around - if not, then you're obvious scum trying to appear contributory. Not twisting anything. People will be able to see your behaviour around the lynch for themselves. | ||
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On June 23 2012 07:11 VisceraEyes wrote: Like, honestly. Marvel is much better than this. He knows that me targeting him if he's town does not automatically make me scum. This is literally the DEFINITION of OMGUS. He literally just said "I know I'm town, so because VE is targeting me, he's scum" and has fabricated some kind of fantasy to justify calling me such. Marv is definitely my preference for lynch. He knows better. He's acting like he doesn't, but he does. On June 26 2012 01:39 VisceraEyes wrote: Since Marvel has claimed scum by thinking I'm scum, everyone should be voting for Marvelosity. He clearly doesn't want to play, so let's oblige the poor chap shall we? Hilarious stuff. xsksc, I'd rather you read and commented my case rather than VE's trite responses to it. | ||
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On June 26 2012 04:59 rastaban wrote: I don't see how you go from one moment thinking VE is so town that both a jailer and mafia would try and hit him noght one to then thinking he is the leading scum. I think it is most likely that you are both town arguing with each other like you and gonzaw in bang bang. I thought maybe VE was scum for a bit as well due to the fact that he didn't get a single vote yesterday despite the back and forth but going through his filter I didn't see it. He also tried to lead yesterday's lynch which scum is often hesitant to do. marv, what are your thoughts on risk? he hasn't changed a thing since I called him out yesterday, and now says we should ignore him because he is lazy.... You don't see how, or you won't read my case properly? Tried to lead yesterday's lynch? what are you on? Do you have no comments on how he didn't want to lynch Zentor but completely ignored the case on you despite the fact that you were the next candidate and slOosh was pushing it? You seem to be playing a different game than I am. | ||
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So far you've said you're not gonna respond to my case, that I'm scum for making it, then you say you're going to respond to it later, and now you're not bothering to respond to it. Scummy. | ||
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On June 26 2012 05:11 VisceraEyes wrote: Saying I'm so townie that both the jailer and the scumteam would target me overnight and following it up directly with me being your only/strongest scumread doesn't constitute "changing your mind" in the townie sense. That's a complete fucking 180. Everything you said in your case had happened at the time that you said I was probably who scum tried to kill but was saved by a jailer, and nothing had changed except for the night-kills. And I don't care who was killed, it shouldn't make you change your stance on someone completely marvel, that's just not how shit works. No, I said you were probably town, and referenced THE THOUGHTS OF OTHERS. I even wrote them elsewhere in my filter (risk/prob). Who was killed at night didn't make me change my stance. I only settled on you after long deliberations and angst over my choice. I went over Snarfs in Emergency mafia, I went over Probulous in both C9++ and LV, I went over risk in PYP Poison, I went over rastaban in Bang bang and I went over you in WoF and LI, in addition to looking at all the filters in this game. | ||
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Especially the part regarding rastaban and the lynch. | ||
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You wanted to appear good by saying you didn't want to lynch Zentor, but there was only one creditable alternative to the lynch and you knew it. I also look lovely when dressed up like a fairy. But that's nothing to do with anything. More to follow regarding VE's response to my case. Stay tuned folks! | ||
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More regarding VE's response to my case: VE has in fact done everything but respond to my case. He's dismissed it, or attacked me directly, or omgused. On June 26 2012 01:24 VisceraEyes wrote: Wow look at that, who saw that one coming? *raises hand* First there's the sarcasm. Having lectured me on omgus earlier in the game when I was in fact not omgusing, he proceeds to do it himself: On June 26 2012 01:35 VisceraEyes wrote: *shrug* Suit yourself. ##Vote: Marvellosity It didn't have to be this way sir. On June 26 2012 01:39 VisceraEyes wrote: Since Marvel has claimed scum by thinking I'm scum, everyone should be voting for Marvelosity. He clearly doesn't want to play, so let's oblige the poor chap shall we? Dismisses the case without actually replying to any of it: On June 26 2012 01:27 VisceraEyes wrote: Marvel's case boils down to...what? What is the main point you'd like me to answer for Marvel? Because it looks to me like a huge post just trying to justify voting for me. There's nothing scummy in there, there's nothing alignment indicative, it's all just a bunch of stuff that you're twisting to justify voting for me. so yeah, if there's a specific problem you'd like me to answer for, feel free to clearly ask me while I'm around - if not, then you're obvious scum trying to appear contributory. So there's no case to answer, right? Wrong! He will answer my case, but only when he feels like it. On June 26 2012 02:10 VisceraEyes wrote: Anyway, I'll respond to marv's case in full when I feel like it. I don't feel like it right now, so you'll excuse my indifference. Just in case anyone missed it, he will definitely respond to my case, with appropriate swearing: On June 26 2012 02:28 VisceraEyes wrote: Xs, I've been suspicious of marv all game, don't even. ....nope, not doing this right now. No one admires my play, my play is a fucking joke. Saying that only makes me suspicious of YOU Xs...but whatever, I'll look into that later. I said I'll respond to Marv's case. I'll do it. When I fucking feel like it. But wait for it... wait for it... he won't respond to my case after all! On June 26 2012 05:04 VisceraEyes wrote: Your case is invalid by virtue of you waffling on your read of me all fucking game marvel. I don't care what your case says when you're just as likely to flip your view and say I'm town at the slightest provocation. That's why I'm not even bothering to respond, for those of you watching at home. *wavewave* Cases aren't made invalid by how indecisive ANYONE was previously. Cases are invalid if the points made within the case are logically refuted. But he'll be having none of that. On June 26 2012 05:18 VisceraEyes wrote: And hey - I'm responding to your case here, now, by talking to you. Fuck the points in your case, if you have any reasoning behind them then you should have no problem asking me conversationally about them without having to refer to your bullshit case. What's the problem you have with my play marvel? Something you can dictate? Oh, he's responding to my case by talking to me. Last time I checked that wasn't responding to a case, that was talking to someone. 'Fuck the points in my case'? My 'bullshit' case? Again dismissing my case without actually refuting anything. VE is a floundering scum-merchant. | ||
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Don't you dare. | ||
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Still no defence to the fact you outright lied that you would check out the rastaban cases and comment in the thread, and then did not. Anyway, not my turn now | ||
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So instead of reading and responding to my case, he just saw me and VE arguing, when I was trying to present a case. Clearly then he was successful in deflecting. And again now you're asking me about this, and you haven't actually commented on my case at all. Proof is in the pudding of how things are turning out. | ||
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1) Matt asked a question. I liked it because I hadn't really thought about it before, and I was interested in what he thought. That is all. 2) I do tend to play more scummily as town than as scum. There is nothing contradictory here, it's simple fact. The only time I have ever been lynched in TL Mafia was when I played town (WoF). In my 2 games as scum, no-one has even been able to make a case against me. 3) I did not straight up lie to the thread. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, but as I was directly addressing you VE, you should definitely have known: "check out how many times i said/did anything scummy in LV" - implication is that I did not. VE bolds the "see the pressure" part of my sentence on Magic, but actually I said "where I wanted to shoot NT right off the bat". I am clearly saying what I was referring to without you needing to look. There is no lie. Your lie, on the other hand, was about promising to comment on rastaban, and your explanation was "I commented by NOT commenting or voting". Right. If you promise to comment, then at least say "I had a look at the cases and I still think he is townie", but no. | ||
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I didn't take a risk, your view of the event is simply incorrect. How it happened is what I said in 1) in my VE defence. | ||
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1) it's an easy thing to do, not you're an easy day 1 lynch. The point was that you were policy pushing someone without much mention of whether they might be scum, and VE was attacking you for it. My point was that it is very easy for anyone to attack you for your policy lynch. Not that you are in general an easy day 1 lynch. 2) you told me and VE to 'stop this shit' but you didn't actually respond to my case at all. Again my point here is that VE spamming up the thread had prevented people (read: you) from actually responding to my case. | ||
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And yes, his silence is deafening. | ||
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As much as any particular question is surprising I guess? | ||
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On June 25 2012 15:07 Mattchew wrote: I am attempting to post more concisely and be less annoying this game then usual due to complaints in past games. When I wake up tomorrow I want to do a big post explaining my scum reads. You may all hold me accountable for doing so and the reads that I present. For now I am going to sleep after a long weekend. It's evening time in the US of A. I guess Mattchew hasn't woken up yet... | ||
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On June 26 2012 10:05 prplhz wrote: Well, I don't think it's a good case. You looks like you disagree with him and then the rest is just explaining how he could still be scum in spite of what he's doing. Like, VisceraEyes cared more about the lynch yesterday than a ton of other players, why are you trying to use that in your case on him? The scummiest about VisceraEyes is that he's actually engaging in this shit with you and then partially his opinion on me around the lynch (wanted to lynch the guys I was pushing but still wanted to lynch me). I want something more from you two on risk.nuke. The fact you think this is mindboggling to me, but ok. | ||
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On June 26 2012 10:07 Probulous wrote: ROFL, you should be a politician man. You know what I mean when I ask that question. I thik you responded rashly without taking the time to think about your answer. Is this true? I've pretty much repeatedly now said that was the case. What do you want from me, Probulous? | ||
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On June 26 2012 10:05 prplhz wrote: I want something more from you two on risk.nuke. The fact that he's not contributing now makes him look bad. But his push on rastaban aligns with my read on rastaban. My read on him will be swayed in one direction or another depending on how he interacts with today's lynch. How he responds, and if he responds in time to actually affect it or not. And no, I'm not saying that if he wants to lynch me that'll mean I think he's scum. | ||
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On June 26 2012 10:12 VisceraEyes wrote: He wants to know why in an effort to establish your townieness via the method you chose, you answered rashly without thinking when the point of the exercise was to honestly answer the question so you can be judged either scum or town right then. There's not a lot else I can say on the matter by this stage. If that's really enough to lynch me then whatever. I hate that there are so many players who basically haven't contributed this cycle. Where is Matt and his promised reads? Where are Shraft and Snarfs? Why is rastaban always so irrelevant? Why does risk who always has an opinion not have an opinion? | ||
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On June 26 2012 10:12 VisceraEyes wrote: He wants to know why in an effort to establish your townieness via the method you chose, you answered rashly without thinking when the point of the exercise was to honestly answer the question so you can be judged either scum or town right then. Now that it's day 2 I can smile at stuff like this. The way you even phrase this basically leads on to suggest I claimed scum by being evasive. If that's genuinely what you think I would have done as scum, then I can only shake my head in disbelief and shrug. | ||
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will have to work on my legacy post i guess. | ||
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can't really be bothered making a detailed post at this stage. VE is scum, lynch him tomorrow, he does know better despite his pretences that he doesn't. it's just the case even if you all don't think so. Prob just doesn't know what scum look like, no wonder he hasn't won a game Snarfs I'd hope you'd have known better but you are probably town's last hope if you are town, use it wisely rastaban was my #2 read, independent of his interactions with VE risk is still doing jack shit so dunno how to read him i think prplhz is town but i could be wrong mattchew is being extremely unhelpful, don't know if he genuninely thinks posting like he is is helpful but it isn't, nullish atm shraft is being equally useless, could be scum, who knows in case you wifom about it i didn't shoot anyone last night | ||
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don't expect you to believe me now, but for when I flip that'll be a clarification | ||
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i just don't want town speculating that i shot zephirdd last night when i did not. | ||
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i just want people to lynch VE tomorrow. | ||
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Shraft: I was really hoping to be alive to be able to get a decent read on this guy. I wasn't comfortable doing so today (despite trying) becausse it's too early. During Emergency I thought him a little suspicious early on but he got townier as the game went by. He said himself that game he didn't have high confidence in his scumhunting skills but he tried very hard to come across as townie. So tomorrow, ask yourself - is he playing pro town? Is he asking the right questions, making the right points and corrections? I get a nagging feeling he might be being a bit more aggressive this game than Emergency, but i'm not sure. Mattchew: I do not believe he's playing a pro-town game. His little cases are all well and nice, but he's not contributing to town otherwise, he's not creating a posting atmosphere, he's not casting doubt on bad points as I'd expect Matt too. There's a difference between posting more concisely (his supposed aim) and basically staying completely aloof from town and not becoming a part of its ongoing discussions. risk: stop being lazy or you will die, and if you're town then you'll be screwing town over like in Poison again. So if you are town, please try, find scum, don't be lazy, and don't be another mislynch. | ||
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On June 26 2012 21:51 prplhz wrote: Hey Mattchew why am I scum again? you really don't read the thread do you On June 26 2012 21:33 Mattchew wrote: Then you can hang I have an extremely strong townread on VE Also, I'm an idiot and forgot zeph died so my thoughts on prp are completely invalid... Rasta and Marv for scum it is ##unvote ##vote marvellosity | ||
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On June 26 2012 21:53 prplhz wrote: I kind of agree with risk.nuke that marvellosity doesn't look scum. I have no idea about the SK thing or what the "SK profile" is. I just think that marvellosity was out of a sticky situation looking kind of alright if he was scum (the day1 tunnelfest) and then he decided to engage in it again out of the blue on day2 when it should be pretty obvious that he would end up looking horrible, makes no sense at all to me. It's really that simple. yes, it really is that simple, but town is derping superhard. Of course my play day 1 is largely to blame, but town are being superdumb at the moment. | ||
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On June 26 2012 21:58 marvellosity wrote: yes, it really is that simple, but town is derping superhard. Of course my play day 1 is largely to blame, but town are being superdumb at the moment. And it's part of the reason I really think VE is scum. He is good enough to know this too. | ||
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On April 12 2012 01:04 VisceraEyes wrote: I SWEAR TO CHRIST IF YOU FUCKING ASSHOLES MAKE ME CLAIM On April 12 2012 05:55 VisceraEyes wrote: NISANI IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CHECK RTFT On April 12 2012 05:56 VisceraEyes wrote: I like how everyone likes my fucking scum-suspects and likes me for scum. This town is absolutely unreal. Someone, PLEASE give me a reason not to clock out. Please. On April 12 2012 06:43 VisceraEyes wrote: Those are all rhetorical questions I'm not supposed to answer - they're asked designed to prove your point...I can't respond to things like "wtf" and "what kind of play is that?" Fucking my play motherfucker what do you want me to say? On April 12 2012 06:49 VisceraEyes wrote: Fuck off with that Bugs, you're not interested in helping town either. You're shutting out the possibility that I'm telling the truth because it doesn't fit with your initial read of me. GUESS WHAT BUGS YOUR FUCKING EARLY READS ARE BALLS! MINE ARE BADASS! GET THE FUCK OVER IT On April 12 2012 06:56 VisceraEyes wrote: Seriously? Really? You just said that? Yeah I'm done. Enjoy your loss town. I fucking tried. gg scum. On April 12 2012 07:00 VisceraEyes wrote: Bugs my vote was my breadcrumb! I fucking posted a VER case for Christ sake! Do you really think I'm comparing myself to Ver? REALLY? REALLLLY? But you know, whatever. I've explained all of my motivations. You choose not to believe them. That's your thing, not mine. I'm absolutely satisfied with my play this game. You should be ashamed of yours. We'll be having words in post-game sir, believe that. On April 12 2012 07:01 VisceraEyes wrote: It's genuine frustration. But you know, believe what you will. I can't make you people read. On April 12 2012 07:06 VisceraEyes wrote: Dude what the FUCK? I posted TWO HUGE POSTS explaining why I think Toad is scum. It has NOTHING TO DO WITH EITHER OF THE THINGS YOU JUST SAID AT ALL. All I've been asking you to do is read 2 posts. Yes Bugs, they're big. Yes Bugs, it might take you 5 or 10 minutes. I'm fucking sorry I'm verbose. But please read them. My read on Toad has nothing to do with the check, as I've insisted SEVERAL times. Why did you even post this? Are you seriously TRYING to get a rise out of me? On April 12 2012 07:08 VisceraEyes wrote: I got excited with a red check and forgot Bugs, I'm fucking human. This game isn't about "who can remember their role the best" it's "who can find and eliminate scum". One of them is me. One of them is not. But you don't care about that shit do you? You're not REALLY finally actually listening to reason, you're just making me keep talking to shit up the thread whilst NOT reading my cases some more. On April 13 2012 06:06 VisceraEyes wrote: Guy, the thing is that I'M NOT COMPLETELY USELESS AFTERWARD!!! I FIND SCUM!! Jesus, you think it's all about the claim and the role - I don't give a FUCK ABOUT BEING A DT. I care about being alive longer SO TOWN CAN WIN THE GAME. On April 13 2012 06:17 VisceraEyes wrote: ![[image loading]](http://i601.photobucket.com/albums/tt97/x0Pancakey0x/RAGEQUIT.jpg) | ||
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My point was that VE is quite capable of displaying a lot of 'emotion' as scum, all faked. | ||
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xsksc, can you work out what it might be? | ||
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On June 26 2012 22:44 risk.nuke wrote: marv. silence. *tail between legs* | ||
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On June 26 2012 23:39 risk.nuke wrote: I'm not sure yet. Innocent untill proven guilty. you've previously been confident enough to place a vote on him, what changed? | ||
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On June 26 2012 14:37 Snarfs wrote: I don't want to regurgitate a bunch of opinions others have stated so I'll try to be concise in summarizing my own feelings. - I agree that marv's case on VE was entirely a stretch. To reference his conclusion: - It's all WIFOM for us to guess what you would do as scum - You're exaggerating to say that he twists your words - Yes, he never talks about rastaban, but that is a null tell - both scum and town can get busy and/or forget to respond to certain things - He pushes you and prplhz and at least mentions his suspicions of zephir, plus you're clearly his biggest scum read - Why would town continue to be vague and confusing in their responses after seeing that people thought it was scummy? I have to agree with Probulous's case here and Shraft's own recently posted opinions. marv consciously played an anti-town day 1 and I just don't believe that he would do that as town after being mislynched so recently in a similar game. ##Vote marvellosity @Mattchew: You list marv as one of your scum reads; yet for some reason you think that rastaban is a better lynch today? You even say that "Either way [marv] eventually needs a noose." So why bother prolonging this if you're that sure he needs to hang? Protecting your scumbuddy? Snarfs is scum, imo. References a 'recent' town game and says how I would behave. Ignores much more recent scum game dismissing it as wifom. | ||
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He's played this was as town before, so he can't be town! He's not played this way as scum, so I'm going to ignore that fact and say he must be scum! Logic fail. | ||
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On June 27 2012 00:53 VisceraEyes wrote: "Hi! My name is marvellosity, and in my spare time I like to sarcastically make fun of others' arguments against me rather than doing the townie thing of trying in earnest to find scum! I also enjoy long walks on the beach and I'm a TL Capricorn." Really, I mean, I'm not scum - so you're not actually finding scum on your way to the gallows. You say you're a vig ya? Did you shoot Zeph? Because gosh marv, that would have just been a super shot. I said I didn't shoot Zeph as already stated. And I have just found scum in Snarfs. Get lost. | ||
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On June 27 2012 01:02 rastaban wrote: I feel like claiming Vig was the safest claim for mafia since there is no way to disprove it with a night situation as it can be blocked and there is no second chance like a normal blue role would have where you force mafia to take care of it. Well, quite. Which is why I'm not asking people to not lynch me because of my claim. You're lynching a townie, not a vigi. I claimed so town didn't think I may or may not have shot Zeph. | ||
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On June 27 2012 01:19 VisceraEyes wrote: Okay, well ignore me guys - going active lurking for a bit whilst I read Marv's filter armed with the knowledge that later in the game, THAT GUY IS CLAIMING VIG. Stay tuned. The vigi bit is seriously unimportant :/ | ||
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On June 27 2012 01:26 rastaban wrote: Snarfs huge post on zephirrd just before he died seems a bit strange. Mafia would have known the kills were off and probably scrambling to get it rectified instead of writing a giant argument against someone when they knew the NK post was off. I find it hard to see him as mafia at this point. Don't be so naive. There's no scrambling, one PM is sent and you wait. The timing of the case is hilariously convenient. | ||
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You are scum. | ||
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On June 27 2012 01:30 Snarfs wrote: Actually, my argument is thusly: Premiss 1: He was recently mislynched as town Premiss 2: If he's town he'd be more worried about being mislynched because of (1) Premiss 3: He is not acting like he's worried about being mislynched Conclusion: Not town. Premiss 1 is verifiable Premiss 2 is hard to dismiss on the basis that your mislynch contributed to us losing the game and I don't think that you like losing games. Premiss 3 is reflected in your "I'm actually playing a scummy town game" defense. @risk.nuke: You say VE is the towniest town that ever towned. Marv says he's going to kill VE if you let him live. You say that marv should be left alive. What? Now that's a logic fail. This game is fun. Premise 1: I never play scummily as scum Premise 2: I therefore never get lynched as scum Premise 3: Therefore I would not put myself in this position Premise 1 is verifiable Premise 2 is verifiable Premise 3 is reflected in this game. BUT, you dismiss the scumplaying marv argument, and only stick to the townplaying marv argument. Scum. | ||
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On June 27 2012 01:32 risk.nuke wrote: Like marv gets to be in charge of who he shoots... if I live, I'm shooting VE. I'm not living on a negotiated basis. | ||
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When I flip, sheep me. | ||
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On June 27 2012 01:47 Snarfs wrote: But if nobody expects you to play scummily as scum, then that's the perfect scum play T_T. Quite clearly not. | ||
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Rarefied. | ||
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It's so perfect. | ||
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On June 27 2012 02:01 Snarfs wrote: Well can you explain this part then: - Why would town continue to be vague and confusing in their responses after seeing that people thought it was scummy? And why would scum continue to be so vague and confusing when people thought it was scummy? To make themselves look more scummy? What? | ||
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On June 27 2012 02:11 Snarfs wrote: Fuck, it doesn't make sense from either perspective. The only explanation is that you were either scum not thinking or town not thinking. BINGO. This is it. | ||
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I'm on the fence with Matt | ||
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On June 27 2012 02:18 Snarfs wrote: But you're going to kill VE and I think VE is town. No way I could sway you to shoot like a Mattchew or a risk.nuke? also that would be a terrible justification for lynching me. Because we can still lynch scum today. | ||
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With Matt. I know he has healthy respect for my scum play. I also know he has healthy respect for my town play because he was happy to sheep me on my judgement in Magic. Here he is sarcastic and dismissive towards me. I can't tell if this is because he's scum or because he really thinks I'm scum. I don't know how to differentiate with him. | ||
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On June 27 2012 03:02 Snarfs wrote: Can you elaborate on this? I don't see much towniness between where you said you were having trouble reading him to this position. He's talking sense. His reads so far align not too far from mine. He seems to care about this lynch. | ||
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Why would I go after VE again, as scum, having deflected the attention on me day 1? How could that not end badly for me as scum? No, I went after him because he's my strongest read, it's that simple. | ||
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I do think xscsc has a decent chance of flipping scum. Because of the point risk also raised (which i did too earlier). prplhz/risk's 'defence' of me seemed game specific and thought through. Whereas xskcs's seemed like it came through benefit of knowledge of my alignment (xkscs, if you're actually town, sorry for shitting on you when you were the only one defending me for so long :/) | ||
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Re: probulous. I know you didn't believe me earlier, but I really did struggle like fuck with his filter here/c9++/LV. I couldn't find a read either way. He seemed more aggressive as scum in c9++ than he does here, which is what put me off. I think he might genuinely think I'm scum because he doesn't understand underlying emotions and shit in mafia and he's a bit naive sometimes. Like, he checked Wiggles in LV, which was just the worst check possible because he was either gonna come up green or green. Basically he talks a good talk but I can't tell if his shortcomings are from deficits in his townplay or because he's purposefully adopting a style in this game to cover them. | ||
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Also Radfield and I, at the start of Redux, talked about WoF and his case on you. He told me that it wasn't so much his case that made him truly believe you were scum, but your response to it. It's funny because in WoF you originally made a joke to Radfield about it (basically your whole case is just a gut read) and then you backed down from it and said (paraphrasing) "lol only joking I'll answer your case properly later". The similarities are striking. | ||
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Recently he thinks I might be town, calls Snarfs null, then disappears again. Urgle. | ||
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##Unvote: VisceraEyes | ||
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On June 27 2012 05:50 rastaban wrote: Thats why I currently would rather let mafia shoot him tonight if possible and make that decision for us. What??? If I survive the night, why would mafia shoot me?! | ||
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On June 27 2012 06:52 VisceraEyes wrote: He doesn't look like he's TRYING to figure shit out. He doesn't look like he's AGONIZING about being right or wrong. He looks like scum. I take massive umbrage at this. Look at my filter day 2, and strip out my accusations against you. It's littered with comments, with explanations behind them, of what I think of other people. That really is grossly unfair. | ||
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On June 27 2012 05:32 wherebugsgo wrote: Reminder that the nightpost will be delayed 6 hours after the normal deadline, to 04:00 GMT (+00:00). The action deadline WILL however, occur at the normal deadline time after that (so you'll have 17 hours to send in your actions instead of your normal 23). Be sure to send in your actions to both myself and Artanis. If I am not around next time and Artanis hasn't received actions, it will be as if nothing hapepned. I will not be so lenient again. | ||
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I am pretty convinced you're scum but at the moment I'm trying to work out I'm arrogant enough to disregard most of town's opinion on you if i live. sigh. so seriously, shoot. if you think i'm scum, you can pump me for information. because i will answer. | ||
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You're pushing the idea that I have to be lynched now because it could cause trouble later. No, you only lynch me now if town is convinced I'm scum. That is the correct answer my friend. | ||
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I do not have to die later because of my claim and the suspicion on me now. I get roleblocked every night, so what? I can still very much play for town in the coming days and that will clear my innocence. There is no having to lynch me eventually. | ||
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If you really think I'm scum you should be taking this opportunity to question me on shit. Even when I lie cravenly and absolutely about my reads (...) you should be able to get something from it. | ||
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On June 27 2012 08:31 Probulous wrote: Heyo! Just got into work and wonder of wonders the deadline is extended. Hoorah for me /dance Had a brief skim of the happenings and will take a closer look. Marvel claiming vig is a null thing to me. We can never know if he is telling the truth because scum will just roleblock him so we end up in the same position tomorrow. I even think that you having the same scum read today as yesterday is not relevant to your claim because vigs hardly ever shoot night 1. Changing your read just before the lynch however is an interesting point. I will take another look at the early interactions between you two because VE got quite emotional early in the day before you two got into each other again. Why marv changed his read the second time and not the first is a question I would like answered. If we are going to make a decision n marv, we make it now. Otherwise we waste another day and lose more townies overnight. When/what are you referring to? | ||
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The reason I don't bother questioning you on anything right now is because you blow up like that post right there and that isn't going to help me stop town lynching me. | ||
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On June 27 2012 08:45 Snarfs wrote: I have just under an hour until I have to leave work to head to a jazz fest. concert and I won't be back from then until after the deadline so I need to know if we're switching votes pretty fast here. I honestly don't know what to think about marv right now. It's illogical for either scum or town to be in the situation he's in right now. If he's scum, like prplhz said, he had to have known that he was likely to lose the 1-on-1 with VE by bringing up his case again today, and he'd be taking a huge gamble that a fake claim would save him. If he's town, we just have to believe that he was dumb and/or cocky enough to not answer a couple questions straight up... and that he actually believes VE is scummy.... But again, scum would want to push easy lynches, not someone who everyone else thinks is town. Like, it's bad town play but it's got to be even worse scum play. Snarfs, as town or scum the fact is I got embroiled by my own arrogance/bad play day 1 with not answering the questions. Those are the common things. Your only other thing you mention there about if I'm town is that I think someone you have a strong town read on is scum. Is that really so hard to believe? But if I'm scum you have to accept that I went after VE originally, and having dropped it, I then fucking did it again. That is just INSANE. Absolutely insane. And that's ignoring my meta defence which I won't restate but nonetheless exists. | ||
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On June 27 2012 09:06 Snarfs wrote: I know it's insane, I'm just debating whether I'm sure enough that you're not insane - and that the rest of the town can come to a similar conclusion - that I'd prefer a no lynch (which I've stated in the past usually favors scum because scum fucking love denying information) since that's what seems pretty damn likely if we don't lynch you. yeah ok, I do kinda resent that. | ||
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Also, get a grip. | ||
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I actually PMd wbg during day 1 asking if I got my bullet back if I targeted the same target mafia did (ahem, VE) because I thought a cunning ploy would be to target VE and if he was town, scum might have targeted him and I would get my bullet, and if he was scum, I'd kill him. then i checked the op and realised it was non refundable and sent another pm to wbg before i looked stupid. but bla bla. | ||
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rastaban I have not voted. In relative order of happiness xskcsc matt shraft | ||
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VE xkscsc Matt Shraft | ||
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i can't bear that after everything i've put into this game the last 48 hours, prplhz, the guy who fucking pointed out how retarded the argument on me was, goes "meh, he might be scum after all". | ||
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i don't want to play anymore | ||
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this is to do with prplhz breaking me after i tried so hard to keep it together this cycle. | ||
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lots of europeans who can no longer make lynch time. how is that a sensible thing to do. | ||
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you were right though. i don't get lynched today and what happens tomorrow? no-one trusts me. my reads are probably completely fritzed because i'm not used to this situation. | ||
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apparently i'm completely wrong on you although i still can't believe it. just fucked | ||
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##unvote ##vote: mattchew | ||
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there must be scum hopping off too? does that make sense? | ||
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but i don't know if i'm right to think that :/ | ||
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how do you reground your reads after you survive a lynch? | ||
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On June 27 2012 11:19 VisceraEyes wrote: Like, the only point he agreed with was my point about the Vig - which still stands BTW :/ - but it doesn't seem like that should be enough to buck his other reads. Not to mention the fact that Shraft was on marvel, and Shraft was his main suspect. wow. holy crap prplhz explains why marv isn't scum prplhz has Shraft as his clear top scumread Shraft votes marvel prplhz votes marvel ????? | ||
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xscsc i think is scum Mattchew could be scum but i'm less sure than xskskc for what it's worth. also bedtime in 10 mins | ||
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it's that post in conjunction with the fact he was sure Shraft was scum and Shraft was voting for me and that prplhz was the guy in the past who pointed out how crazy it was for me to go after VE again on day 2 if i was scum. | ||
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On June 27 2012 13:59 VisceraEyes wrote: Despair doesn't become you - and a no-lynch isn't the end of the world. Prob, your case on Matt was, literally, 16 minutes before deadline. Did you feel it was strong enough to lynch him? Really? It didn't feel thrown together at all? And you were freaking out at me, why? Because I caused a no-lynch over a guy who the only case against him was literally made 16 minutes before the deadline? Snap out of it guy, we're in the same position we were in yesterday, only now we have reactions to the wagons and soon we'll have NK information (or hopefully not! ^^). We're not in a bad position. this is all such bullshit. he was one of the ones you were calling scum for much of the day, for god's sake. | ||
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On June 27 2012 18:54 Shraft wrote: Does prplhz come off as pro-town to you? Because he doesn't to me, and VE said that prplhz usually looks incredibly towny when he plays town. I'm starting to believe that he is scum... It's mostly just OMGUS and meta, but still. He really does not. This is untrue. | ||
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On June 27 2012 19:07 marvellosity wrote: this is all such bullshit. he was one of the ones you were calling scum for much of the day, for god's sake. Went back, and you didn't talk about him as much as I thought. Nevertheless there was a list of scum: marvellosity, Mattchew, risk.nuke and yet VE saved Matt from the lynch? | ||
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On June 27 2012 21:32 xsksc wrote: Well he says this here I already mentioned that I find this weird...I don't see why he felt the entire responsibility was his, and why he was so worried about it. yeah, Snarfs laid the groundwork (first vote), Probulous really set the ball rolling, and rastaban then hopped on. No-one was sheeping VE :/ | ||
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On June 27 2012 22:49 rastaban wrote: Allow me to quote a townie from the last game I played in: what outrageous play are you referring to here my dear? | ||
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On June 27 2012 16:22 VisceraEyes wrote: I want risk.nuke dead. I'll elaborate later. Bedtime...sorry guy. ok but I'm after that. As you know I have a town read on risk at the moment. | ||
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go read his filter | ||
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On June 28 2012 05:04 marvellosity wrote: Ugh, I just have this horrible nagging feeling about the fact that 100% of the people who were awake and posting last night were willing to switch on to Matt (even if VE did switch off him again) risk or anyone, can you give me your opinion on this please? | ||
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risk, what do you make of prplhz's switch on to me having previously defended me, and his subsequent total absence today? | ||
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you said yourself VE looked worse than me for our interactions then you vote me now you refuse to defend your actions ..... | ||
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thoughts on prplhz now | ||
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Now, that doesn't matter so much if your reads are correct. However you were just flat out wrong on me and town is probably going to lose this whole game because you made a bad read on me. If you're scum, good. If you're town, meh. | ||
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On June 28 2012 06:40 VisceraEyes wrote: Oh, and our cop was checking me tonight, so yeah - fun times. ??? | ||
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scum have RBd me we should lynch VE tomorrow. | ||
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On June 28 2012 06:52 Probulous wrote: Ebwop unvoted. Stupid autocorrect he revoted me at the end. did you not see??? | ||
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VE has his vote on me he unvotes me and votes Mattchew finally he unvotes Mattchew and votes me Final result: he causes a no lynch and believes me scum as he is voting for me Today, I say I am going to shoot him He doesn't say 'lol you're scum, you didn't shoot me' He accepts that I have shot him Now he is behaving that he is going to be alive tomorrow do you not see? | ||
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this is hilarious VE was just acting like he was dead as of now Now he is acting like he knows he is alive hello? | ||
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if VE is scum i'm rbed | ||
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ignore everything, i thought when VE was talking about lynches he was saying he was going to be alive, but he wasn't ... | ||
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and i can't take seriously the idea that scum would think i would shoot anyone else | ||
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town VE really did tunnel me like that. I can't believe it | ||
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I DO NOT PLAY FUCKING SCUMMILY AS SCUM GOD DAMNIT | ||
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maybe it's 2 scum 1 SK? | ||
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On June 28 2012 07:21 Mattchew wrote: If noone counterclaims Risk being roleblocked he is basically confirmed too that's nonsense, scum can hold RB and claim RB. | ||
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which means it's likely that it's 3-3-1 which means it's impossible for town to win is there even any point in playing right now? | ||
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##Vote: Mattchew VE thought he was scum, he's still a good player even if he got me wrong. The chance of town winning is so low as far as I can see. Your optimal scenario is 3-1. The other scenarios are either 2-1-1, 1-2-1, 2-2-0. The only scenario where we win is if we lynch mafia today and then they shoot each other, all other scenarios we lose. | ||
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rofl | ||
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it's all down to the nightkills anyway | ||
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Make your reads and I will discuss them with you. But you pretty much need to pin the entire team and then choose the SK between them somehow. | ||
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who are the 3 townies? | ||
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matt/prplhz/risk/Shraft are the baddies risk SK. | ||
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he's either scum and faking it or scum roleblocked risk and he's sk | ||
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Simples. | ||
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Still voting Mattchew today though. It's one of the rare instances when mine/VE's view actually ended up coinciding, which is pretty important. | ||
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I have to put in a monumental amount of effort to try to refocus my reads and with town's negligible chance of winning I'm struggling to find the motivation. | ||
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I feel like I was manipulated into definitely shooting VE last night. It actually wasn't set in stone, and I didn't do so night 1 because so many people were against it, but night 2 much of the resistance against it washed away which made me more comfortable on it. I want to know who is responsible. | ||
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On June 28 2012 21:18 marvellosity wrote: yeah I don't know right now. I was too hasty yesterday with my answers. I have to put in a monumental amount of effort to try to refocus my reads and with town's negligible chance of winning I'm struggling to find the motivation. Again I'm spamming like a baws, but obviously I will find the effort at some stage. Everyone seriously needs to help me with my questions and analysis, especially if it involves me. | ||
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On June 28 2012 22:14 Shraft wrote: Just kill rastaban. Refocus your reads tomorrow. This is a fucking awful thing to say. You cannot possibly be town. | ||
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???????? | ||
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given the Zephirdd/xscks SK kills (we can assume this), I look at risk's filter and he was suspicious of both xsckcs and Zephirdd. | ||
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risk or anyone? | ||
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shraft SK prplhz used awful reasoning to try to push through the lynch on the townie rest of town saw through it risk was absent shraft has interest in scum being lynched | ||
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scum could have roleblocked VE? | ||
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##unvote ##vote: prplhz | ||
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The rastaban issue For giggles I went and looked at who had and hadn't attacked rastaban, in various manners. xsksc attacked rastaban heavily slOosh flip flopped but also ended up attacking him, but it was day 1 marvellosity has been flippy floppy on rastaban like a baws. VisceraEyes had a town read on rastaban Probulous did not attack rastaban Shraft attacked rastaban Mattchewattacked rastaban Snarfs attacked rastaban risk nuke kinda attacked rastaban but backed off him | ||
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On June 28 2012 23:01 rastaban wrote: This is a very levelheaded and well thought out post, which coincides on my read that you are not scum. I agree we shouldn't lynch you today. And if you really aren't scum then VE may have saved the game with his shenanigans last night. What do you feel about my post and its possible scum targets. I know we need marv on board to do anything but I would like your input. so you believe risk is scum? | ||
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On June 29 2012 00:51 rastaban wrote: I don't think so, I think he really was Roleblocked last night. so there's 3 townies, me, you, risk, matt seeing the problem yet? | ||
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I thought about your point that scum wouldn't not roleblock. While there is of course a chance that risk scum could pull off a ploy like this, scum were/are in SUCH a strong position it seems like an unnecessary risk to take when they could be aiming for roleblocking the SK from taking a shot on them. | ||
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I plan on assessing everyone and then looking to see if the combinations make sense to me. | ||
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this sucks | ||
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I'm not going to share anything of what I think with anyone until the deadtime at night I don't think. Town is just gonna have to sheep my final decision. | ||
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On June 29 2012 03:08 rastaban wrote: Shraft can you list out who you think the 3 scum are and who you think is SK? don't do this, I don't want anyone now saying who they think SK is. | ||
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which is why when I decide my vote you simply have to follow it. | ||
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When Snarfs voted for Mattchew yesterday, he was leaving the thread and it seemed like there was zero danger of Mattchew getting lynched. | ||
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You just won't be able to see it. | ||
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Anyone else? | ||
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thx | ||
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only risk/matt to go :o | ||
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Why can't you see either of those being the SK? | ||
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this game is hard yo | ||
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I also think I'm lynching into Snarfs and Shraft. I want risk's input. | ||
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<3 | ||
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I believe him most likely to be roleblocker as he has been protected most. Throughout day 1 and day 2 he was less engaged than I would expect from a townie Snarfs. My point I made on day 2 earlier still stands where he dismissed my scum meta as wifom but condemned me because of town meta (this still doesn't make sense). | ||
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because SK has a massive interest in telling me that prplhz cannot be roleblocker scum | ||
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I also don't see Snarfs having made the shots that occurred. | ||
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Just the way the cookie crumbles I'm afraid. risk, snarfs or shraft plz? | ||
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I generally have an opinion of who's who but there's a grey area in the middle where I just might be wrong. You're not in that grey area | ||
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Compared to Emergency you come across as significantly less townie and significantly more aggressive. There are various in-game reasons too but that helped clinch it for me | ||
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yeah maybe he's scum and I fucked up, but meh. I'm leaning on the opinions of the most recent dead and confirmed townies too (VE, Probulous) so if I'm wrong I can at least blame someone else (jk jk). And prplhz is not roleblocker and that's our best shot of remotely winning. prplhz, I've done the cold hard analysis: On June 29 2012 08:13 marvellosity wrote: I've spent 4 hours today making my reads on everyone from the game, and as much by process of elimination you have to be scum. Just the way the cookie crumbles I'm afraid. risk, snarfs or shraft plz? That was not 4 hours spent crying or being emotional, believe you me. | ||
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:> | ||
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Town lynches the roleblocker 3-2-1 will likely become 2-1-1. Town cannot possibly win. Is the mafia's best ploy to kill a townie? Presumably any sane SK (rofl :/) chose one-shot bulletproof for situations just like these (BH chose it last game). So if mafia tries to shoot at SK then likely it ends up 3-1-1, worse for mafia than 2-1-1 (obviously) Town doesn't lynch the roleblocker 3-2-1 becomes 2-2-1. An even worse situation for town numerically speaking, where the only hope is for town to lynch a mafia and then mafia and SK to shoot each other (extremely unlikely...) Basically town cannot possibly win unless by some miracle mafia hits the SK tonight. Presuming this happens: If SK gets roleblocked, it will be 3-2-1 tomorrow and we can potentially win by lynching scum. If SK does not get roleblocked, it will be 3-1-1 tomorrow, where fate is entirely in town's hands. In other words, town can only win if mafia does not kill town tomorrow. This being the case, our chances are greatly increased if we manage to hit the roleblocker. Everyone please comment. Am I making correct assumptions here? The one of course that it's based on is a 3-1 scum/SK split. In Emergency it was 3/1 and town had cop, roleblocker, jailer, similar blue powers to here, so it seems reasonable. | ||
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It's like the veteran's ability which is passive and unblockable. So a no-lynch at 2-1-1. That still relies on mafia and SK shooting at each other though...oh i see... this is a bit like game theory | ||
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Why are you antagonising your confirmed townie? | ||
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So Snarfs. | ||
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Attacks rastaban. wants to hold off on me. For some bizarre reason wants to lynch zephirdd instead of rastaban based on prplhz’s case. SEEMS MORE AGGRESSIVE HERE THAN EMERGENCY. bought in easily to Probulous’ case against me. Pops up during day 2 lynch to say that he’s happy to lynch Mattchew instead of me. rastaban/prplhz scum, plrplhz based on false meta = bad, especially when i corrected him. repushes on rastaban day 3. WHY NOT MATTCHEW? seems to not really care who gets lynched as he merrily hopped from me to Matt day 2? SK? Terrible ‘joke’ comment to me about just lynching rastaban. just terrible. | ||
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In this game with the marv/VE fuckup, neither scum nor SK have had to put their neck on the line. There is no real reason for scum to look any scummier than SK. | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=147475 | ||
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so everything this cycle is taken with a grain of salt. | ||
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i am actually awesome for the first tmie in the game. kthx | ||
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On June 30 2012 09:57 Shraft wrote: Won't last very long. Your read on me is wrong. no it isn't. you are the most anti-town player left, and everyone knows it. | ||
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On June 30 2012 10:18 Shraft wrote: Well, I'm right about my alignment. You'll be sorry when my green blood spills. Give it up dear. | ||
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On June 29 2012 01:34 Mattchew wrote: i meant trying to figure out whos town, and whos more likely sk In my opinion, the sk is probably between snarfs and prplhz. Both have played pretty quietly and in my opinion have just tried to blend in, snarfs especially. the biggest hold up is prplhz is kind of playing his town meta being disruptive and rude which means he might actually be trying to find scum. this leaves shraft and rastaban as my more likely scum teammates then anyone. This late bus they are trying to make meaningful really means nothing in lylo when they can easily switch off last minute to provoke a no-lynch or mislynch Who is it now, Matt? | ||
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Snarfs (roleblocker) Shraft prplhz Mattchew - Serial Killer. Maybe Shraft is SK but I think it's Matt. Shraft's play suffered a complete and utter collapse day 3 and as far as I can work out this is because he was scum panicking, and not SK - where he did not have any need to be so aggressive against me. To Risk: I have to presume you're townie as there's no hope otherwise. That said, I believe your read of Matthew to be incorrect. There's a good reason that 6/10 of us were willing to lynch Mattchew day 2 (even if VE did turn back) and that was because Matt has basically not acted pro-town in any way. I believe you are making an error in thinking today with your "matt seems excited townie" train of thought. The way I see it is that it is in practically everyone alive's best interest to appear to be helpful/enthusiastic/whatever towards me since the beginning of day 3, and Mattchew is clever enough to understand this and play on it. I think you are being taken in by his play today when practically everything that has happened today is one giant mindfuck, including his play. Taking into account my/VE/Probulous' views on his play day 2, I really do think he is scum. Anyway, that's what I think. If it's you alive and me dead, please bear this heavily in mind. | ||
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I refuse to believe that your day 3 play was townie. I wasn't even lynching you goddamnit. Like, I'm almost tempted to PM the hosts asking them if they made a mistake. gg everyone. gl mafia/SK deciding the win between you. | ||
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On July 01 2012 18:51 prplhz wrote: marvellosity shouldn't have shot VisceraEyes because it was pretty obvious that VisceraEyes wasn't scum. If he was scum then he would have lynched marvellosity when he had the chance for being vigilante who wanted to shoot him. Backing out of that should make it pretty clear to marvellosity that VisceraEyes was town. Really well done on the roleblocker lynch though, no clue how you pulled that off ('cause you refused to tell me other than "I spent 4 hours figuring it out!" ).You make some valid points in a couple of your posts this page 1) yes, my filter was abhorrently long. Fortunately by a certain stage people didn't have to read it anymore. One way or another I was a dominant factor in this game (for dominant, don't read good, just... prevalent). I got spammy at the end especially because I was fishing for information / trying to control town. 2) I should not have shot VE. I said so in obsQT. Basically my rational side was telling me it was a bad play but my emotional side of me wanted me to shoot VE. Even though I'd logically realised it was terrible, I couldn't stop myself :/ 3) The roleblocker thing was a hunch based on how the game had played out. I drew on slOosh's earlier analysis and my own on how Snarfs had been taking more of a back seat than expected. And whether it was on purpose or not, it would be hard for scum, psychologically, to bus their roleblocker; it's their clutch role. 4) Despite how confident I appeared/looked during day 3, I still felt my ability to make reads had been compromised by events earlier in the game. On rastaban especially I drew heavily on how VE and Probulous had or hadn't viewed him, and I got confirmation bias from this. Unfortunately re:slOosh again, I didn't give enough weight to the fact that he ended up attacking rastaban having not done so originally (I believe I made a post on it in the thread somewhere). In fact, I did go back to look at xsksc's day 2 to see if he'd got a check as cop. I couldn't quite work it out, and the fact he subbed in not at the day post made me abandon my thought. Actually the first time I really really felt a tingle about rastaban was his vote on Snarfs day 3. He made up some bullshit one-line explanation of his vote, when really at that stage he'd set out his stall to sheep me, so he did not NEED to make that justification. It wasn't enough though (I wasn't swapping shraft and rastaban at that stage) 5) Shraft - hey man, I'm sorry for doing in miniature to you what VE did to me. I was relying on whoever the townie was (you) working out why I was behaving aloof / not willing to give information etc day 3. It was partly your job to help me 'see the light' on everything. But you didn't note prplhz couldn't be RB (which I'd fished for), you were lazily calling people scum (prplhz/rastaban) and you were heavily antagonising me. 6) VE - kinda agree with someone else that wbg laid into VE quite heavily, even if some of it was deserved. What I most liked about wbg's analysis there though is that he picked up on multiple times where VE was twisting or manipulating what I was saying. I tried on numerous occasions to point this out to town and all I got back was "uh, don't think he is really." This didn't help me out. Thank you very much to the hosts of this game. It was a clusterfuck but a massive learning experience for me. WoF I wasn't really involved and I got lynched, but this was the first game I was at serious risk of being lynched even though I really was trying hard. As such my ability to make reads while under heavy pressure suffered greatly. Also, town won wtf fuck yes!!!! Probeyyyyy <3 I don't believe we won!!! | ||
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If you think you're on to something, you make a post, and it gets buried - don't drop it there. Redirect people back to it, when you're active in the thread and other people are active in the thread tell them, go look at my post and tell me what you think. Much as though in a perfect world it would just take one post on an issue, that's not quite how mafia works. You need to push your points at people if they don't seem to be listening. | ||
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On July 02 2012 09:06 Probulous wrote: Ultimately Marv, all I wanted from you was a post that said clearly "I didn't know how to answer the question so I pushed it back. I don't want this to contiue to shit up the thread so please drop it. I will take a look at my games and give you some thoughts in a little while." and then post something clear. It was your choice NOT to do this that made me think you were scum. I don't really understand this line of thought. It's not alignment indicative either way. You don't think as scum I would want the noise and suspicion at me to go away? What you suggest would have been best play FOR BOTH alignments, and my failure to do so would be a failure FOR BOTH alignments. Do you see? | ||
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On July 02 2012 09:21 slOosh wrote: Nah it's cool, nothing to apologize for. I was in LI when I saw the nastiest slugfest in the form of VE & Toad, but I knew that this probably wasn't a repeat since it is a mini and the cost / benefits is pretty high for a mini game to pull off the same stunt. There were too many people lurking / chilling to make me think that it could be one scum planning on going at a slugfest. I suspected maybe one was SK maybe but seriously the way that the discussion was going it was too messy to take out anything worthwhile, which is why I ignored that and went after other stuff. Now the personal take away lesson for me is how to make people listen to what I have to say / making sure my case doesn't get buried as collateral damage of said slugfest. Nothing on your part, I don't think. I liked your posting since you were contributing and stuff, and I guess I got sidetracked somehow when I got null response from you and prplhz and decided to go after you for some reason (maybe subconscious backlash?). e: ... got null response Concerning snarfs from you and prplhz ... | ||
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On July 02 2012 19:25 prplhz wrote: Yea I agree that we were handed this game on a silver platter by the VisceraEyes/marvellosity debacle and SK shooting into townies but we failed at LYLO. The two biggest things we did wrong was shoot Probulous over marvellosity. With a confirmed townie alive it is very hard to manipulate anything. We also talked in the QT about having Snarfs claim SK when he was up for lynch but that never amounted to anything. Thanks for the analysis. Yes, I feel like this justifies my position on day 3 of "you will do what I say because I say so". Edit: to Snarfs claiming. Only SK was plausible. Correctly or not, I'd have dismissed a blue claim on balance (we already had 3 blues as strong as the previous game with 3 blues). | ||
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It's already been mentioned that in a game this size it's very unlikely we're both scum. So there are AT LEAST 2 other mafia and an SK (likely as not) out there for you to find that didn't involve us 2. I think even though you put forward a bunch of decent logical arguments against me (although as discussed, flawed a little), you weren't at all sure yourself I was scum anyway. Especially when you have slOosh thinking it's all much ado about nothing, it might pay to listen (risk too, etc) | ||
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edit: and of course i should have fucking shot matt, lol. shooting you was the single worst play of the game. | ||
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Think about the other factions. Mafia sat on their fucking ass all game and the SK managed to hit townies at the end when he was aiming for scum. Anyway, you didn't really play badly. I still had a townread on you ^^ EDIT: To VE: I wouldn't have bloody had to shoot Matt if you hadn't unvoted him | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On July 03 2012 07:51 Probulous wrote: No matter how hard we tried we failed to lose this game Swings and roundabouts dear. I had 3/4 scum day 2 in Magic Mini Mafia and town lost that one. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
But yeah the end was funny. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On July 03 2012 14:34 Snarfs wrote: One thing that pissed me off was the whole "Oh, he's being protected so he must be important scum" argument. As me and Mattchew showed and VE and Toad showed in LI and others have shown in the past, relying on connections is dumb as shit. So you're calling me retarded for picking you out as roleblocker for reasons *you* fail to properly grasp. Thanks bro. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On July 04 2012 12:06 Snarfs wrote: I'm really sorry, I was drunk when I wrote that . I didn't mean for it to come off as harsh as it did. You played well after the whole VE thing ended and deserved the win.Thing is, normally I agree with you, one at a time. But when town are already outnumbered and you need to pick out a particular role, you have to be more wide-ranging. Interestingly 'connections' suggested most of all a matt/prplhz/snarfs team, but my read on Shrafts screwed with this. e.g. a couple of things from my notes on you: "Day 1, wishy washy. pressures prplhz but never follows up." "'attacks' matt but no real pressure." On Matt: "odd jibe at prplhz." "attacks prplhz for timing on Zeph case. Backs down because of error. So just rastaban/marv." or prplhz: "kinda attacks matt" i.e. a lot of interaction that wasn't REALLY interaction. | ||
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