EPTthere can be more than one DT -_-
TL Mafia LVI - Page 6
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
there can be more than one DT -_- | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On July 07 2012 21:41 Kurumi wrote: WBG, I have my doubts. The biggest doubt I have is that Hyaach's play does not equal DT. I actually was suspicious of this guy, look at his filter, his attacks look the same as grush's or casual's. Chanting "X is scum". The timing isn't quite right in my opinion too, why wait 24 hours to claim your "red" check? Please explain, why would I want to trust this guy? While my vote is on Katina I treat it as a gamble. Nothing wrong with the timing at all. He had a green check and that guy was going to get lynched unless he claimed. The only reason this would be beneficial as scum is if they are buddies. However, if they are buddies then lynching a townie puts huge pressure on them, making it unlikely to be a scum claim. I really don't understand what's so difficult to grasp about that. Perhaps I'm colossally wrong about this whole thing but I just don't see how a scum Hyaach benefits from this claim. I also don't understand why you think it's a scum favored claim. | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
Think about this: Katina labels casual as nothing but a disruptive troll, therefore he should die. However, grush is not much different and BM was not much different before either (she even uses BM as an example of a troll who flips mafia) However, she defended BM and she never attacked grush until I pointed out the hole in her logic. Why this contradiction? (I would warrant that grush's only contribution all game just came in the form of reminding everyone there have been no rb claims) Then, why is it that she is applying so fervently a relative null-tell (being a troll) as a surefire sign someone is scum? This reminds me of MTG where she kept trying to say nova was scum because he spammed, and he spammed before as scum too. This of course was completely disingenuous because he spammed as town and when I pointed this out she still pursued him as a target. She flipped scum that game. Finally, from a statistics point of view there are actually less misleading mechanics in this game than others. There could be two framers, but even with two framers it wouldn't be as bad as GM's games, for example. If she really was framed then obviously that's unfortunate but we'd have to reexamine everything in light of that. However, I have my doubts given her incredibly strange initial reaction. Is Acro still afk? | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
No one argues so heavily that a green check must be godfather. It's a ludicrous idea and the only time this happens is if the behavior of the target is completely contradictory to the check. Normally you take the check at face value and only question it if the claim is questionable or the checked player is not helping town (and if they live too long, for example). I see no reason to doubt the validity of the check when I personally have had a scumread on Katina for most of the game. | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
On July 08 2012 06:41 VisceraEyes wrote: I didn't like the check on BKE though NSH. ##Unvote ##Vote: Katina He says he had a town read on BKE. You don't check town reads. Checking a failed bandwagon is a pretty good check. If BKE died d1 and flipped town instead of foxtrotter/mKmKmK then the latter two would have made good checks as well. | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
If you flip town obviously I'll go back and reread and see what went wrong, but this check is too much to pass up on. We can't just ignore it given that we're now so late into the day and given the information we have. Don't change the facts. You didn't push BM because you "thought" he was town and you said so. Now you're claiming you didn't push BM because you didn't feel strongly about him? What? For the record, if Hyaach hadn't claimed I would have supported a lynch of Twelve. | ||
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NoSmurfHere
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NoSmurfHere
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we kill ShiaoPi, Twelve, and grush. All of them had extremely weird reactions to the Katina lynch and almost all of them refrained from voting for a very long time. Grush and ShiaoPi voted very very late and basically fucked themselves with their reactions. | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
ShiaoPi is almost definitely scum as well based on that megalate vote, and Twelve is either the dumbest townie in all of existence or scum. | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
If your vote stayed on BKE the 95% confirmed townie (upon Kat flipping) then you would've been called out anyway. So yes, I am saying that no matter what you would've done I would've thought you were scum. Sucks to be you. | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
final vote count is this: Katina - 12 Hyaach Vivax NoSmurfHere ghost_403 Mattchew Kurumi MajuGarzett Mandalor grush57 VisceraEyes casualman ShiaoPi BroodKingEXE - 3 Acrofales Katina Twelve VisceraEyes - 0 Twelve - 0 grush57 - 0 ShiaoPi - 0 Looking back at the Katina votes, there are some very very crucial things to consider: first of all, this was no normal scum lynch. This was a lynch of arguably the most powerful mafia member, the one they intended to live the longest. Katina was a roleblocker, not a goon, and she was very well established, to the point where many people I have town reads on considered Katina to be town. Upon this flip I have to reevaluate my reads of these players (particularly VE, as it is getting down to the wire) but I'm pretty confident that I have mostly been on the right track where they are concerned. The bolded 3 in green above are essentially confirmed town. I realize I've included myself in that but I know my own alignment, obviously. Medics need to be on these 3 players to force scum to shoot into the others. If you want to take a risk, go for it, but at 2 KP mafia will need to double stack one of us without a roleblocker. They're put in a situation now where they either kill Hyaach (who is pretty much confirmed DT) or they kill me/ghost, or try to sprinkle their KP over one of us and someone else they deem unlikely to be protected such as Mattchew or VE or Acrofales (assuming they are town) Now, other things to take from this list: 1. Twelve never switched his vote off BKE and never actually took a concrete stance on the issue. He simply chose to disappear during the mess in which I was hardcore tunneling and pressuring Katina. While I was forcing slips out of Katina I noted two posts and vowed that town should not forget them. I bring them up once more now: On July 07 2012 10:32 Twelve wrote: Alright I've read through Hyaach and Katina's filters and I don't see why you are trusting Hyaach over Katina. I had a strong town read on Katina, but after rereading, I realised it was because she defends me from lynches, but its always from one townie to another, so maybe she was exploiting knowing my alliance and trying to trick me into being an ally? Any thoughts? I'm feeling a but lost, but am willing to change my vote. Good god Hyaach if you are lieing about BKE....... On July 07 2012 10:34 Twelve wrote: any other DT that can confirm these claims from Hyaach? Note that after this, Twelve never came back. He never switched his vote and he never took a stance. He never switched his vote off BKE, and he asked if there was another DT that could verify Hyaach's claims (INCREDIBLY scummy). Why on earth would a townie try to out two blues at once? Definitely not the response I would've expected any town player to make, and definitely something that can be reasonably explained from a scum perspective. Twelve is almost certainly scum and any vigis still alive should shoot the crap out of him. 2. Acrofales disappeared. Someone mentioned the running of the bulls, which is fine, I suppose, but ultimately he's been completely gone for this cycle. We need to ensure that he isn't mafia. If he isn't active tomorrow and if he doesn't contribute then we should consider killing him later. Just something to remember; we can't forget about him. In a game as large as this if players slip by unnoticed they become dangers in lylo when only the baddies and inactives are left alive. 3. Grush votes Katina without explanation despite seemingly being of the opinion that it was likely Katina got framed. Check out the last few posts of his filter. Earlier in the game, grush was on Twelve/BKE but today when the lynch came out strong with those two as the leading candidates he didn't vote for either of them. In the end his sole vote went on Katina and it was as useless as the rest of the stuff he's done. Indeed he defended her (and she him). It makes sense in retrospect given the fact that Katina flipped roleblocker. Grush is scum. 4. ShiaoPi's mentions of Katina: On July 01 2012 05:56 ShiaoPi wrote: Casualman get in this thread please, no more shananigans in the vote thread... @solstice: Katina has a single post and would probably fall under the lynch lurker policylynch right now. I think it would be better to go after BKE or mkmkmk soft-defense On July 03 2012 19:24 ShiaoPi wrote: Just caught up on the thread, happened a lot I guess. Barring delayed counterclaims ghost should be confirmed town by now. While I would agree on a Katina-lynch, my topread would be Hyaach: "I like Katina as a lynch, but I prefer scummy lurker #5" (this was upon me seeding the thread with my Katina read on d2 IIRC) On July 04 2012 07:23 ShiaoPi wrote: Katina: I skimmed through the filters of the two games posted in this thread and honestly I could not make out that much of a difference, rereading her filter here does yield some scummy things which stand out such as the reasonless bandwagoning, on the other hand she seems really busy and I would say that we can lynch other people for this day and leave her for later if she continues to not contribute. Twelve: I am unsure what to make of him, he joins the BKE bandwagon and the foxtrotter one without much explanation, the whole story with his rl buddy seems weird and out of place as he could have simply delievered his reasons for the switch instead of (potententially) making up a strange story, which we are supposed to believe. His whole derpage during night looks like a newbie townie, but why would he accuse someone of godfather then? His disapperance since then is just baffling, no idea what to make of it. A lynch on twelve would probably be as effective as the foxtrotter one was, he is a scummy lurker, but his lynch feels like flipping a coin. The Target I still want to lynch is hyaach: He apparently is following the thread but only gets active when it is needed (voting or being called out). So he is pretty much lurking with an aim. His refusal to contribute and participate in discussion in unsettling to me, since he just vanished yet again. "can't make a read on her" On July 04 2012 07:42 ShiaoPi wrote: I am giving Katina some slack because it's her birthday and looking at her filter there is more effort involved at least from my opinion. Twelve is just unreadable to me. I would see him as newbie town based on his posts but intentions behind it look like scum, so I said it feels like a coinflip to me. Hyaach in comparison reacts aggressively to being called out and even says: "I have no reason to participate, screw you" I probably should have added a housekeeping post that BKE is improving in my opinion on his posting and that I am still closely looking when he posts, but am moving to hyaach as the target of active pursuit. To the agreement stuff, where did I actually say I agree with BKE on that and that thing? The only thing I can see is that he seems willing to lynch hyaach now, where I was actually the first to really pressure him. "she has an excuse to be inactive" On July 05 2012 02:21 ShiaoPi wrote: Some thoughts after I caught up, @hyaach: BKE also asked you, and you did respond with that quote of "you have to ask to get a case". Guess you don't like him either. Reading through your recent posts I want to thank you for (finally) contributing thoughts which make sense and generally stepping up your activity. You are off my suspectlist for now. ##unvote @Katina: I do not like wasting a lynch on a troll. Better to shoot him or blow him up. Good to see you unlurking and contributing. I'll probably reread mandalor now. @Twelve: Same reasoning about casualman as with Katina, Is he your strongest scumread right now? Regarding ET, I did not play any games with him so I don't know about his meta, but it is unsettling that he vanished after being one of the more active persons beforehand. Can somebody link me some games of him? "good to see you unlurking" On July 07 2012 07:17 ShiaoPi wrote: BKE has not shown any activity lately, his day 2 play was better than his day 1 play so I focused on hyaach, but it did not mean that he became a townread for me. You can see my thoughts on twelve in an earlier post, he is still a nullish read who I wish had flipped instead for ET. just so we can stop discussing him. I want grush to die or start doing something, like pretty much the majority of the thread I guess. Katina is nullish tending town, her recent posts are much better and she is offering up reads and opinions. hyaach is tending town now. He is pushing his read and generally more helpfull than before (which wasn't too hard to be honest), he could still be more transparent though. "nullish tending town" On July 08 2012 07:46 ShiaoPi wrote: I would love to lynch hyaach first to see his flip as a basis, but seeing that as impossible due to time constraints we can at least can something with Katina's flip "would rather lynch hyaach over katina" On July 08 2012 08:22 ShiaoPi wrote: Well that puts me in an awkward spot, good that we nailed scum, not so good if you kill me next, since I am town. I suggest lynching grush and twelve, preferably twelve first, since his defense of Katina made me more wary of him. @NSH: You really think I would have done that kind of reaction if I knew Katina would flip scum, because she is my scumbuddy? Seriously, I might be not playing really well this game, but I am not that stupid... All I can say to that is that I made a mistake in my reads. If you do not believe me lynch me and get disappointed by a mislynch And here, almost the only mentions of grush and twelve in his entire filter, for things he himself is profoundly culpable. Smells like interscum distancing to me. Kill List Twelve grush57 ShiaoPi Watch List Acrofales VE Kurumi Mattchew The last three players on this watchlist were pretty fervent in their opposition (in the case of VE + Kurumi at least) or were afk (acrofales) and need to be watched carefully. I'd include Mattchew as well but I have an odd town read on him and I need to figure out why even though I haven't paid much attention to him | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
if you are a hatter and you are alive tomorrow with bombs on two of the kill list, consider claiming so that we can kill more than one of them at once by lynching you. | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
Human Cannonball (Mad Hatter): You are a Human Cannonball! While you're normally the one being shot out of the cannons, you also know a thing or two about using them! Each night you may prime a cannon, up to a maximum of two, and aim it at someone else's tent or wagon! If something should ever happen to you, your assistant will light them, blowing anyone in the way to smithereens! Changing your target counts as a Night Action and you cannot prime a cannon and change the other's target on the same night, or change both targets at once. If a mad hatter is lynched do his targets die? | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
Thanks for the clarification wiggles  | ||
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NoSmurfHere
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Phenomenal scumplay, mate. | ||
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NoSmurfHere
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You're funny, scum. | ||
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NoSmurfHere
New Zealand613 Posts
reaction on dying: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/AaiPg.gif) | ||
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