EPTiGrok's Good Clean Old-fashioned Mafia
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
On June 03 2012 22:53 Radfield wrote: I'd like to play in this iGrok, but am currently in another game. If I die in that game before this one starts however, I will gladly join. Ohsnap. | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
On June 08 2012 10:40 GreYMisT wrote: You are a fool for claiming, for I am The 3rd Party Dragonslaying Power Demon, and I can dayvig a dragon, disabling their inherent regenerative properties, and absorbing their power as my own, causing me to gain you as my smurf. But it was a trap! He's been in contact with me, the Grand Poobah Dragon Defender of Defendingness, so I can reveal my role to instantly cancel your dayvig, ricochet the bullet onto a random scum player, and out you for the 3rd party slime that you are  | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
(  ) | ||
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BrownBear
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On June 10 2012 02:12 iGrok wrote: Alright, is everyone ready? Game starts at 01:00 GMT (+00:00) tonight. i'll be out then, but i should be back to post very late tonight. | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
fyi im on a keyboard with broken shift keys, hence no question mark. just imagine there's one up there. | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
i just don't think it's a good idea. | ||
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BrownBear
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BrownBear
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On June 11 2012 00:05 chaoser wrote: Backing away from RNG, Ace? I didn't realize there were DIFFERENT ways to RNG. Pray tell what the other ways are aside from RNGing using a, well, random number generator. there are definitely better ways to do it than one person posting a screenshot of a supposedly randomed number. we have no clue if that really was your first go around, or if you mashed the again button until you got a 3 so you could say 'hey lets get ace lol'. also, as was said above by both me and greymist, rng is stupid and doesn't provide town with any real advantage. 9 out of 11 times, the rng will land on a nonscum, so scum dont have do anything except vote and laugh. | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
so, let's spark some real discussion. chaoser, what do you have against ace this game. question mark goes here. | ||
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BrownBear
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On June 11 2012 04:14 Radfield wrote: Palmar, do you think that RNG lynching Day 1 gives town a better chance to win the game? On June 11 2012 04:14 Palmar wrote: yes. On June 11 2012 04:17 Palmar wrote: And I didn't think you were dumb enough to not understand why and how. These two posts are enough for me to throw a preliminary vote on Palmar. I don't understand why he is witholding the information of why he exactly thinks RNG is giving town a better chance, and I in fact disagree with him for reasons stated above. Caveat, of course, is I haven't fully read past page 8, and have skimmed the rest due to time constraints so this may change. ##Vote: Palmar Internets are down, posting from a friend's house. They should be fixed tomorrow so I can post more then. On the bright side, new keyboard! | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
On June 12 2012 05:07 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: BB with dat ninja vote. If you'll look back at page 14, I voted Palmar there, not realizing the voting thread exists. Way to try to direct attention away from yourself. | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
On June 12 2012 05:09 gonzaw wrote: So, you only read up to page 8 and voted Palmar based on that stupid reason (that he hid information about the RNG). So..I assume that now you've read the rest of the thread....yet you still vote Palmar? I'm in the middle of posting something larger. Jesus christ you guys move fast. | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
On June 12 2012 04:40 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: I would not like a BB lynch simply because the last few games I've seen him play, he's posted a few times day 1 then been modkilled. iirc he's been town every single time so his inactivity isn't a tell. Wiggles I need to reread. On June 11 2012 14:30 BrownBear wrote: Internets are down, posting from a friend's house. They should be fixed tomorrow so I can post more then. On the bright side, new keyboard! Hope that answers your question. Sorry I haven't been too active. On June 11 2012 18:19 Palmar wrote: @BrownBear, The information I withheld is crucial to the execution of the plan, as I explained above. You seem to be going after a pretty easy reason to lynch someone, is this because you're being lazy or cause you're scum? I hate plans that rely on "withholding information from town" because it casts doubt on the guy who's doing the withholding. Which would be you. It's great you have this awesome plan and all, but as far as I'm concerned, you could be scum trying to mislead the town, you could be a townie with good intentions but a shitty plan... any plan we take should be out in the open for people to discuss, dissect, and modify, because even the act of discussion around the plan forces scum players to come out into the open and argue against it (if it's a good plan) or for it (if it's a bad plan). The reason PMs aren't in this game is so that information stays in the thread. You're trying to keep us in the dark. For what reason? Also, you still haven't addressed the issues I have with the inherent shittiness of RNG lynches. If you did post about it and I missed it, could you enlighten me? Palmar, I get that you like to play aggressive and by your own rules, but everything you've done so far this game makes me suspicious of you. Not to mention you've insulted me directly several times. As far as I'm concerned you're a cancerous influence on this town, and we need to either lynch you, or decide that you're just frustrating townie and ignore you. | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
On June 12 2012 05:15 gonzaw wrote: Okay, this MZ lynch had no resistance at all, and I'm wary of that. This is the reason I haven't voted MZ. The chief person driving the lynch appears to be MZ himself. | ||
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BrownBear
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On June 12 2012 05:17 gonzaw wrote: @BB: You've read the rest of the game right? What are your thoughts on grey, MZ, and Wiggles, and why would you want to lynch Palmar instead of those 3? Why do you find Palmar suspicious because of some stupid RNG thing? Why don't you look at the cases that have been brought up in the thread? You were the one that wanted to "spark discussion", yet now you are dampering it by continuing to argue about some useless RNG thing I'll change my vote to you until then: ##Unvote: Greymist ##Vote: BrownBear You see, I'm not dampering discussion. I'm pointing out that Palmar is. I'm not sure why you don't understand this. Let me throw up a few examples. On June 11 2012 06:14 Palmar wrote: Just for the record, I think MZ failed already and I'd be willing to lynch him. Piggybacking on Greymist's thoughts on RNG to express your own thoughts while making sure you're not the original argument for the idea is terrible. Let's do this. Post contributes nothing. Great, MZ "failed" by agreeing with Greymist? How about you explain some more exactly why and how he failed? How about you provide a logical, well constructed argument about why Greymist and MZ are "wrong" rather than just say "welp, they don't agree with me, they fail, LYNCH LYNCH LYNCH". On June 11 2012 19:34 Palmar wrote: you're all bad, inactive and boring. So instead of complaining about it, why don't you change it bro? On June 12 2012 01:42 Palmar wrote: I would have to re-read chaoser to form an opinion on him, Radfield has been fairly towny which is why I was annoyed at him for being thick. Too many people are just content with not doing anything though. "Thick" is not an accusation many would say about Radfield, particularly players who have actually played with him. There's a reason scum target him early on rather than let him play entire games. I think he's just as confused as I am - he wants to know your reasoning for supporting RNGs. I do too. Let's hear them? On June 12 2012 02:03 Palmar wrote: a) screw you for suggesting I'm not playing b) I'm perfectly aware what you were responding to, that doesn't make what I said untrue. This is the response of someone who's actually worried that they look like they aren't playing. If Palmar were playing and were secure in this fact, why wouldn't he just link to a bunch of his earlier posts where he was playing and contributing? That would be a much more airtight defense than a simple "screw you". Also, Palmar's too smart to mistake the volume of posts he's posted for actual, meaningful contribution. He's posted like 25 times: I count maybe 2 or 3 of those that are actually useful to town. This is a classic scum tactic (I used it in Mafia XXX, if you're curious) where volume makes a player look active, while clever words or subtle rehashes of earlier topics disguise the fact that none of the posts have much meaningful substance to them. On June 12 2012 03:45 Palmar wrote: When I say "there isn't a case on X" it means that I don't think there is a valid case to be put forth against that person. For example BrownBear and Ace, while both completely fucking useless so far in the game, neither has a valid case against him. That won't change even if some internet warrior writes a "case" on them. Direct attack on me and Ace aside, isn't the point of mafia to build cases on people? A weak case is still a case, saying it isn't is stifling town discussion. If you think a case is weak, rather than dismiss it out of hand, you should maybe point out the weaknesses in it or the holes in logic. This builds town cohesion and stronger cases. On June 12 2012 03:47 Palmar wrote: What is it that I should comment on? Can you stop being an asshole and acting as if I'm not playing the game wtf is this shit, I've commented on just about everyone and everything in the game, why do people keep saying I'm not playing. fuck off. Direct attack against another town player (gonzaw) trying to shut down a valid point: Palmar ISN'T PLAYING THIS GAME. He's trying to appear that he is, and he's trying to tie up town conversations he doesn't like by directly flaming the people making them, but he is not contributing anything meaningful of his own. Now, some people may say "oh, that's how Palmar plays lol" but that shouldn't be acceptable. Like I said earlier - his behavior is a cancer to the town. We need to either cut it out or ignore it. | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
On June 12 2012 05:30 gonzaw wrote: Okay BrownBear you are clearly active, you know I'm leaving in a few minutes yet you refuse to answer or even defend yourself (most likely so then I leave, you keep lurking and the lynch is on MZ or something). It seems you are doing this on purpose. Everybody, I'd want you to switch your vote to BrownBear. His first posts were him discussing random fluff about the RNG deal; but again everybody did this. Then he posted this: He wanted to "spark some real discussion", yet he's been absent since then. Not only that, he wants to "spark some real discussion", yet now that he's active and real discussion did take place, he doesn't care about it and just dwells back on the RNG thing, failing to comment on anything else. Not only that, his FoS on Palmar is stupid as fuck. You don't base your D1 vote on someone's opinion on RNG/policy lynches/etc, specially if you have millions of things to take into account about said player, like Palmar's FoS and vote on MZ for instance. Yet BB completely fails to acknowledge Palmar's behaviour at all and just focuses on Palmar "withholding information about the benefits of RNG". Seriously? Again, he fails to comment on the Greymist or MZ issue at all; he only said that he wouldn't vote MZ because he agrees with me that the MZ lynch has no resistance at all. However he doesn't comment on it at all. Again, take notice how now he disappeared again. Please lynch him, at least if you guys don't want to lynch Wiggles, I prefer him getting lynched over Meapak Lynch BrownBear please Okay I'm leaving Seriously, you have no case on me other than "he tries to lynch Palmar w/out a case" which I have just put down. I'm sorry I tried to build a complete case against Palmar and wasn't able to finish it before you left. Hopefully you'll come back, read it, and understand. My vote stays on Palmar. | ||
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BrownBear
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On June 12 2012 05:21 Palmar wrote: This is a dramatic misinterpretation of what I did, no information is hidden, the plan just requires people to use their brains, just like LAL which is basically an accepted policy. Did you even bother to read my explanation? As I stated in that post, I could not find this so-called information. Either you've hidden it well, or it doesn't exist. On June 12 2012 05:21 Palmar wrote: If you did not understand it from my explanation, you're probably not going to get it. I explained pretty well why they're good, but only if people use their heads, which is rare. And it would take you maybe thirty fucking seconds to put it up in a quote, say "HERE IT IS BROWNBEAR, NOW SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP", and be done with it. You have not done this still. Either you're too stubborn to help other people play the game, or you are still vainly trying to hide the fact that no explanation exists. On June 12 2012 05:21 Palmar wrote: So you're fine with killing me even if I'm town cause you don't like how I play? I have only insulted you once when I called you "fucking useless so far", but for someone that just claimed to have been inactive due to out of game shit, I think it's a pretty fair portrayal. Or are you going to argue that you've been helpful? several times seems a bit dramatic. On June 12 2012 05:13 BrownBear wrote: and we need to either lynch you, or decide that you're just frustrating townie and ignore you. On June 12 2012 05:13 BrownBear wrote: and we need to either lynch you, or decide that you're just frustrating townie and ignore you. On June 12 2012 05:13 BrownBear wrote: and we need to either lynch you, OR DECIDE THAT YOU'RE JUST FRUSTRATING TOWNIE AND IGNORE YOU. What part of this did you not understand? Also, you can argue I've been less active and less helpful than others in the game, but there are ways to say it without using the words "pretty fucking useless". That's just needless flaming, hurts my feelings, and is unwelcome. | ||
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BrownBear
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On June 12 2012 05:27 Palmar wrote: This game sucks, everyone is trolling me or being scum. I don't think anything wiggles said is irrelevant. He's usually pretty easy to figure out when he's scum so... dunnoh. I'm not sure about you as I haven't played with you enough to know the difference between your scum and town play, all I know is your scumplay is pretty good. I would be willing to lynch BB now though, but I prefer meapak. You're trolling everyone, contributing nothing, being incendiary, flaming, suppressing discussion, and getting insanely butthurt every time someone disagrees with you. And you wonder why people are yelling at you. | ||
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BrownBear
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On June 12 2012 05:54 chaoser wrote: I don't think palmar is trolling, if that helps. I think palmar is playing a pretty good game actually (not trying to buddy), I think you're misrepresenting his actions BB. I'm assuming you read through my argument and don't agree with it, which is legit, I'll admit I'm a little annoyed right now. However, I'd like to see some reasons why you think I'm misrepresenting his actions. Also, Hesmyrr, the reasoning is because MZ has posted a couple times: On June 12 2012 04:21 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: I'm really digging an MZ lynch as well. It's really uniting the town right now and as everyone knows, a bandwagon lynch is the best lynch. and On June 12 2012 05:00 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: what the fuck? like nobody has voted. Should I hammer myself? This is when people are starting to say "hey there's no resistance to MZ this is bad guys". I know Palmar got the ball rolling on that, but it's kind of out of character for him to not tunnel someone to death. At the time I posted this, the only person who was still supporting the MZ lynch (albeit sarcastically) was MZ - everyone else was either not supporting it or just didn't care. | ||
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BrownBear
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Not a huge fan of the way day 1 was handled. And I'm aware its my fault too. | ||
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BrownBear
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On June 12 2012 08:28 gonzaw wrote: Oh so I see BB made a "case" right after I left >_> + Show Spoiler + On June 12 2012 05:33 BrownBear wrote: You see, I'm not dampering discussion. I'm pointing out that Palmar is. I'm not sure why you don't understand this. Let me throw up a few examples. Post contributes nothing. Great, MZ "failed" by agreeing with Greymist? How about you explain some more exactly why and how he failed? How about you provide a logical, well constructed argument about why Greymist and MZ are "wrong" rather than just say "welp, they don't agree with me, they fail, LYNCH LYNCH LYNCH". So instead of complaining about it, why don't you change it bro? "Thick" is not an accusation many would say about Radfield, particularly players who have actually played with him. There's a reason scum target him early on rather than let him play entire games. I think he's just as confused as I am - he wants to know your reasoning for supporting RNGs. I do too. Let's hear them? This is the response of someone who's actually worried that they look like they aren't playing. If Palmar were playing and were secure in this fact, why wouldn't he just link to a bunch of his earlier posts where he was playing and contributing? That would be a much more airtight defense than a simple "screw you". Also, Palmar's too smart to mistake the volume of posts he's posted for actual, meaningful contribution. He's posted like 25 times: I count maybe 2 or 3 of those that are actually useful to town. This is a classic scum tactic (I used it in Mafia XXX, if you're curious) where volume makes a player look active, while clever words or subtle rehashes of earlier topics disguise the fact that none of the posts have much meaningful substance to them. Direct attack on me and Ace aside, isn't the point of mafia to build cases on people? A weak case is still a case, saying it isn't is stifling town discussion. If you think a case is weak, rather than dismiss it out of hand, you should maybe point out the weaknesses in it or the holes in logic. This builds town cohesion and stronger cases. Direct attack against another town player (gonzaw) trying to shut down a valid point: Palmar ISN'T PLAYING THIS GAME. He's trying to appear that he is, and he's trying to tie up town conversations he doesn't like by directly flaming the people making them, but he is not contributing anything meaningful of his own. Now, some people may say "oh, that's how Palmar plays lol" but that shouldn't be acceptable. Like I said earlier - his behavior is a cancer to the town. We need to either cut it out or ignore it. How do you know I'm town? BrownBear, you say Palmar's behaviour is "cancerous to town". Yeah it may be. However, do you think he's scum or not? I don't think I remember you explicitly saying you thought Palmar was scum/SK. I never did. I'm starting to think he's just BM-style town - annoying, misleading, and should be ignored. However, a couple intentionally misleading things he's done still give me pause. But I'm much less convinced he's definitely red now that I'm less angry at him. | ||
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BrownBear
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BrownBear
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On June 12 2012 09:10 gonzaw wrote: Another question: Does any of you have an idea who the SK might be? And is there any subtle difference in scum behaviour and SK behaviour? (without taking interactions with scumbuddies into account) As to your first question, no clue yet. To your second question, SK and mafia tend to behave rather differently. SK thrives on running under the radar and not attracting any attention whatsoever - competent SKs will achieve this by lurking or posting "just enough". Really great SKs, though, will work hard to be a trusted member of town (this is easier to do for them because they don't have to worry about teammates). This protects them from the only possible method of killing them - the lynch. In this setup, the SK is gonna be harder to catch, because we won't have DT checks, trackers, or a trail of bodies to follow back to him (in other setups, you can catch SK if he hits several people casting doubts on him, even if you think he's just scum he'll still die to lynch). We'll have to rely on straight analysis + the one night when 2 people come back dead instead of 1, if that happens. I don't think mafia players would risk outing him directly because that would mean half their strength would be lynched right afterwards, and the SK himself certainly isn't gonna ever claim (once SK is out in the open, his win condition becomes basically impossible). and to your earlier thing: That isn't a scumslip. That's me being dumb and saying "he's town" when I probably should have said "a player who I think is town". | ||
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BrownBear
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On June 12 2012 09:39 gonzaw wrote: So....who do you think is scum? Still figuring that one out. I will post when I have a clearer picture. There isn't really a time crunch at the moment, so I hope you don't mind if I take my time during the night cycle and read carefully. | ||
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BrownBear
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On June 12 2012 05:40 BrownBear wrote: And it would take you maybe thirty fucking seconds to put it up in a quote, say "HERE IT IS BROWNBEAR, NOW SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP", and be done with it. You have not done this still. Either you're too stubborn to help other people play the game, or you are still vainly trying to hide the fact that no explanation exists. Just to throw something out there, he did not respond with a quote of his reasoning, but rather decided to say "this game sucks cause everyone is trolling" and has posted nothing but one or two liners since. I find that kind of disappointing, and a little bit suspicious. | ||
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BrownBear
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On June 12 2012 11:37 gonzaw wrote: You don't go lurking on me Fine, you have all the time in the world (until night ends) to thoroughly reread the thread and filters to figure out what's going on, but you can still chime in on discussions and post your "temporal" thoughts to show you are active and care about the game. I still wonder why you didn't even try to find scum yesterday. So you read the thread, found out Palmar was a "nuisance and cancer to town" and decided to tunnel him for the rest of the day, all the while you ignored everything else being discussed...which you know...was about actually trying to catch scum I thought Palmar was scum until very near the end of the day. I'll admit that was emotionally charged because I hate it when people directly attack me in game and call me "fucking useless" but I was focusing on someone who at the time, I thought was scum. Also, I still think his plans this game have been bad, his attitude has been bad, and he overall has been a distraction to town. So I don't mind removing his credibility within town, because maybe it will make people stop listening to him and maybe we'll get some intelligent, non-flamey discussion done tomorrow. | ||
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BrownBear
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ok, ok, i know that isn't true. Anyway... On June 12 2012 19:17 Radfield wrote: I assume what your insinuating is that me and Palmar are scumbuddies, or that I wanted to save him for some sort of underhanded reasoning. I can assure you that if I was scum and Palmar town, I would push any lynch on him I possibly could. Palmar, like no other player on this site, correctly ID's me by Night 1 pretty much every game we have ever played. Certainly he busted me in LOTR and Arkham 2, and was on my case in Closed Casket. No way I would save him, especially when I had already given myself plenty of reason to not vote Meapak. Something about this passage seems off to me. Radfield addresses ace's insinuation that he's scumteam with Palmar by talking about a hypothetical situation in which he isn't scumteam with Palmar... am I missing something, or does that smell kinda fishy to me? | ||
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BrownBear
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BrownBear
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On June 13 2012 11:42 gonzaw wrote: Okay, what do you think of Wiggles and BrownBear? (I don't think you ever mentioned your thoughts on BB yet) Your case on me is without merit and awful. I posted this earlier, wondering what people think about it: On June 13 2012 02:42 BrownBear wrote: Did I miss something, or did Ace and Radfield just both claim SK? ok, ok, i know that isn't true. Anyway... Something about this passage seems off to me. Radfield addresses ace's insinuation that he's scumteam with Palmar by talking about a hypothetical situation in which he isn't scumteam with Palmar... am I missing something, or does that smell kinda fishy to me? I think Radfield is ducking something here... | ||
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BrownBear
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BrownBear
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On June 13 2012 14:51 gonzaw wrote: Okay, off to reread the thread! (I think it will be the 1st time I'll ever reread a thread since it's beginning and not just read filters, I'm so excited!) Up to page 11, and I already have new info and revelations :O :O :O This is fun. Good idea. Since it's a small thread, pretty easy to do, I'd encourage more people to do this as well! I'm off to do the same thing. | ||
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BrownBear
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On June 13 2012 12:53 Radfield wrote: Mafia just did us a favor  I like that mafia teams keep killing off good scum players. Off to bed, I'll post in the morning. BB, you're reading too much into that post. I was just explaining to ace that if I was scummily saving Palmar, the only option was for me and palmar to be scumbuddies, something he refused to just come out and say. Also, real quick, we have the same number of posts now, so ha And I see what you mean now. Still though, something about it weirded me out. If Ace were still alive, we could ask him to clarify, but he isn't, so... | ||
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BrownBear
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Also I'm glad you reread my posts and came to a better conclusion | ||
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BrownBear
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On June 13 2012 16:02 gonzaw wrote: BrownBear, before doing anything....do you have the "clearer picture" yet? You promised to "take your time during the night cycle and read carefully"...I assumed you had done that in the night cycle, right? What did you conclude by then? I did not have time, unfortunately. With 72 hours to go at the time, I thought I would be okay not sacrificing sleep to get through the thread. I'm feeling like Radfield or Hesmyrr would be a good target. gonzaw already built a case against Hesmyrr that has some salient points (example: only appearing when his name comes up means he was reading the thread closely, but not contributing information unless he has to, which is a scum trait). I'm not 100% convinced yet because of hesmyrr's complete absence, but dude's got some 'splainin to do when he gets back. As to Radfield, I've mentioned a couple things about him that make me iffy, but one other thing I noticed. Take a look at a sampling of Radfield posts around lynch time and in the night after: On June 12 2012 06:46 Radfield wrote: Rest assured, If you're still the scummiest player after I finish filtering, I will push you Happy You're right though, he really only been 'in your face' with Palmar, but that doesn't make it look like a show. Can you lay out for me in a clear and concise format why you think MZ is the best lynch today? On June 12 2012 06:58 Radfield wrote: Chaoser, I don't really see the Greymist case right now. I certainly don't see much wrong with his response to the Vanilla Town thing. What specifically do you see as the reasons for voting Grey? On June 12 2012 07:42 Radfield wrote: I don't get it. You were here before that conversation even started, yet were making no attempt to push VE. Also, are you insinuating that me and VE are scum buddies together? On June 12 2012 18:43 Radfield wrote: Wiggles, that's all well and good, but those posts are startlingly neutral. Who would you have voted for yesterday. Who do you think is playing scummy. On June 12 2012 19:25 Radfield wrote: Why did you want to lynch Palmar Ace? All of these posts raise questions, which are a good thing. However, the number of Rad's posts that raise questions is far greater than the number of posts that provide answers. This isn't scummy in and of itself, but it could be a way to hide a lack of contribution - you can say you're contributing by "provoking town discussion" by asking questions, but in actuality, you aren't contributing anything, which could be seen as a scummy action... Gah, I dunno. It's a ton of little things about Radfield's play this game that make me suspicious. But none of them are actually big enough for me to outright point at and say "this is good evidence for you being scum". I need to stop tunneling and look around some more. | ||
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BrownBear
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On June 13 2012 17:19 gonzaw wrote: I can still post the "halfway-there" case I have of you if you want Actually, I'm curious. What have you seen from me that appears scummy? | ||
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BrownBear
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My vote on Palmar was intended as somewhat of a placeholder (but realistically, I think he should know better than to think RNG is actually a good idea, so that was suspicious to me), then I kept it on him because he pissed me off. For the record, though, I did originally express my intent to vote for Palmar over 24 hours before the deadline (back at page 14), then rushed to put it in the voting thread when I realized we were doing votes there, not in thread. Regarding the whole "you're taking too long to come to a conclusion" thing, we still have something like 36 hours before the deadline. I think we have time. However, question: considering that barely half the game has posted this cycle, why are you continuing to point out my tardiness? | ||
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BrownBear
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BrownBear
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On June 12 2012 09:39 gonzaw wrote: So....who do you think is scum? Still figuring that one out. I will post when I have a clearer picture. There isn't really a time crunch at the moment, so I hope you don't mind if I take my time during the night cycle and read carefully. Never promised I'd post after the night cycle. Said I would take my time, read carefully, and post when I had a clearer picture. I've posted things as I read and think of them. You are twisting my words there, and I really don't appreciate it. | ||
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BrownBear
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On June 13 2012 17:46 BrownBear wrote: yo, i never said outright I would. I assume you're going off of this quote: Never promised I'd post after the night cycle. Said I would take my time, read carefully, and post when I had a clearer picture. I've posted things as I read and think of them. You are twisting my words there, and I really don't appreciate it. | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
On June 13 2012 10:49 Palmar wrote: damn, I was all ready to lynch ace, guess I'll have to lynch intelligently now. ##Vote gonzaw I think you're scum bro, what do you think about that? also I told you, radfield is doubleconfirmed town. Couple things I'd like to see you talk about more here. Firstly, why do you think gonzaw is scum? Could you give us a case? Secondly, do you have any reason for thinking Radfield is town other than "he agrees with me"? If so, please say it. --- Anyway, I think Hesmyrr is who I'm gonna vote on now, before I go to sleep. gonzaw's case has a couple good points. Namely, during the first day cycle he really did only pop up when he was being talked about. This indicates he was reading the thread very closely, but trying to avoid actively posting in it - usually only done by players who have something to hide. Since this setup has no blues who benefit from obscurity, that casts some serious doubt on Hesmyrr. Secondly, Hesmyrr also is doing the same thing I accused Radfield of doing earlier: He's subtly getting other people to contribute in his stead. Example: On June 12 2012 07:07 Hesmyrr wrote: I was actually waiting for you to post the analysis regarding VE, since I couldn't find concrete argument to merit analysis post yet. Currently I find MZ lynch to be better than that of Palmar but I am not going to get stuck on black-white thinking; the fact that GreYMisT+VE have voted him is cause for concern which is why I am reserving my judgment until the last moment. Personally the interactions happened between VisceraEyes and you are making me extremely wary. He was the original guy to push VE, but he wants (i think) gonzaw to do the analysis? That's very strange. If he couldn't find enough concrete agruments to merit an analysis post, why does he expect another player to find it for him? Either he's very unsure about his analysis skills (not true, it's Hesmyrr, he's a veteran mafia player) or he doesn't want to post analysis out there himself. It's enough for me right now to vote for Hesmyrr. He and Radfield seem the most suspicious right now, and I think the case against Hes is slightly stronger, so... ##Vote: Hesmyrr One final thing: On June 13 2012 18:13 Palmar wrote: VE shut up ##Vote BrownBear Cute. Now how about you contribute, like I said above. Why do you think I'm scum? Is it because I disagree with you? Because that's the only reason you've got so far. And it's a shitty reason, and I'm beginning to think you've just stopped giving a shit about this game and you aren't trying, which is unacceptable in a mini. Ok, I gotta get up in 6 hours, so I'm off. Night, all! | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
On June 13 2012 18:15 gonzaw wrote: To be honest, even if Rad was scum I don't see why he couldn't have just kept Ace alive. I mean, Ace was practically useless and had like 1.3% thread presence. Ace would probably park his vote on him and nothing else, he wasn't a direct threat to him as let's say, you (he could have easily killed you as scum). I think Ace was killed because basically nobody suspected him (because he was being his usual town derp), and because maybe they didn't want the state of the thread and discussion to change by killing someone else. That makes me think that perhaps scum were content with the way the discussion was going, which was basically steering towards BB, Ace and Radfield in a way (nobody had mentioned Hessmyrr at all, other than Grey asking him one question). THat makes me feel better about a Hes lynch to be honest. Ace probably died because at any point, he can go into mafia-is-serious-business mode, appear out of nowhere with a perfect read on at least 1 scum, and get town to follow him. Basically, Ace has the ability to tear up a game singlehandedly even when he's barely invested in it, and most mafia players rightfully fear that (it's the same reason Radfield and Foolishness are popular early hits as well). | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
On June 13 2012 18:19 Palmar wrote: that's a joke BB, aimed at VE's You are correct, sir. My apologies. Missed that VE post. But would you mind explaining why gonzaw is your lynch choice, and why you think Rad is town? | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
On June 14 2012 06:53 Hesmyrr wrote: My post in page 19 is not pointless. Like I stated I did not have any scum-read (at least one I believed I could push for with logic) except the fact that I did not want to see Palmar lynched. I also still thought VisceraEyes had reasonable chance of flipping scum while I had null read on MZ, so I tried to determine what to do using vote associatons. At that point BrownBear was unreasonably pushing for Palmar lynch and the post I quoted stood out as weak, passive defense of MZ. Thus I considered the possibility of BrownBear-MZ scum team therefore asked BB to flesh out his response to better. Unfortunately he then went afk for rest of the day so I dropped it. Hi, my name is BrownBear and I answered your question. Right here: On June 12 2012 06:16 BrownBear wrote: -snip- Also, Hesmyrr, the reasoning is because MZ has posted a couple times: and This is when people are starting to say "hey there's no resistance to MZ this is bad guys". I know Palmar got the ball rolling on that, but it's kind of out of character for him to not tunnel someone to death. At the time I posted this, the only person who was still supporting the MZ lynch (albeit sarcastically) was MZ - everyone else was either not supporting it or just didn't care. Page 19, not even half a page below you. | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
On June 16 2012 09:34 gonzaw wrote: lol Actually I'm reconsidering a Palmar lynch right now...hmm BrownBear, would you like Palmar lynched today? If not who would you prefer? I don't have time to flesh this out cause I'm tired and drunk, but I want Palmar dead today. Reasons will come in bulk soon, but the basic reasoning is someone posted earlier about Palmar's usual scum meta, and how he plays very strongly normal Palmar for the first day or so, then completely fades into the background. I invite you to read the filter and tell me I'm wrong. Plus, a host of other things he's done that are fairly scummy. ##Vote: Palmar | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
My resoning behind the Palmar lynch is basically what gonzaw and others have posted. He's not playing the way he normally does when he's town, but he was definitely trying to act like he was Day 1. He's switched his opinion on everyone all the time, without ever providing reasons, and hasn't been called on it until now. He's basically skated, and I don't really understand why we didn't call him on it sooner. He's definitely my target for today, unless something crazy happens, so I'm gonna look forward. One thing I was considering was the possibility of SK choosing to shoot tonight (and I think someone else mentioned that possibility). Given that the game is winding down, I thought it might be a possibility we'll have to account for. In the end though, I really think SK will not shoot tonight, because it's in his interest to shoot at the last possible moment (preferably when it will end the game). If we mislynch and Palmar is town, then SK will be forced to shoot red to keep the game alive (I think) but given the unlikelihood of that possibility, we're going to have SK KP to worry about. So I think we lynch Palmar today, then worry about who's SK starting today and tomorrow. My "group of scum" would be: Palmar Radfield prphlz Wiggles Palmar, case is proven. The other three I'm much less sure about. I'm certain the SK is one of them, though. All 3 have been trying very hard to play pro-town, but little things about their play have just thrown me off and made me question them. | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
Also gonzaw, don't try to play when you're drunk. Bad things happen. I'll wait for you to come back when sober and clarify what you meant by all of that. | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
On June 18 2012 01:12 Radfield wrote: That's hardly a reason to see someone as town.... In fact, it's not! Well, yes. Hence why I said "I will go do that", implying I would go read his filter and decide. Until then, though, I see him as someone where I don't know if he's scum or not, hence, I make no accusations against him. Erm, duh. And gonzaw, I have an issue with direct attacks like calling someone "fucking useless". Saying someone is not contributing is a different matter. So I don't have an issue with what Palmar said, I have an issue with the way he said it (and frankly, I don't understand why we let him be as openly hostile as he is). | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
On June 18 2012 07:53 gonzaw wrote: You think he could throw that "I don't care you guys are better then me I give up I'll just sheep gonzaw" tantrum as scum? Like Rad said, at this point scum would likely bus Palmar and try to win on their own....prplhz doesn't seem to act like it (bussing Palmar by "sheeping" me and "going against his read" seems kind of odd for a bus). He also doesn't seem to act for his own survival if he was scum. He basically admitted he wouldn't do shit and he's playing like shit, etc; and I don't think I'd expect that of him as scum. If he was scum I'd expect him to push someone else (like Rad) and come up with reasons to cast doubt on him, etc to set up a misslynch on D4 that could win him the game. Or at least he'd try to defend himself a little bit more and be more cautious, specially since a lot of people want him dead. Yes, he could act like this as scum to confuse us or something, but I'm trying to see all possibilities here....and prplhz being town is one of them, so I want to be sure. Why did you just ignore Palmar on D2 even though he attacked you and you attacked him back? You got pretty worked up in that 2nd quote. Even though it was a joke and was explained to you later, at that time you thought it wasn't, and you began attacking Palmar ("I'm beginning to think you've just stopped giving a shit..." , etc). However after the joke is "explained"...you never dwell on that again and keep ignoring Palmar until D3. Why is that? Why do you and Palmar take shots against each other on D2 but not act upon them? (well...Palmar did that because he's scum, but I'm asking about you). That whole "I FoS Palmar for a stupid reason. I get angry at him for a stupid reason as well and waste the whole D1 on it.But now I think he's town. Now I'm harrassing him and say he doesn't care about the game and take shots at him for thinking I'm scum. Now I forgot about that and never mention him again. Now he's obvious scum let's lynch him" act of yours seems weird to me I knew I was jumping on Palmar at the slightest provocation because I was pissed at him still, so I felt like I needed to stop that before it became a distracting issue. Also, like I said earlier, I said even when I thought he was town, at best he was a cancerous town player who was contributing nothing but terrible ideas, and who should be ignored. Hence I ignored him. He actually played a pretty good scum, and was really good at causing chaos on the first day. I wish I'd been more insistent about my squidgy stomach feeling day two, but at that point I was thinking "I don't want to keep being a dick to Palmar when he doesn't deserve it because I'm mad at him" so I distanced myself. You are way off base with you thinking I am scum. I don't really know what sort of reasoning "process of elimination" is, because you can be off base with your town reads on people, and that doesn't automatically make me scum. That's terrible play. If you're ever down to people "by process of elimination" you really need to go back and read filters again. And seriously, not all of us can be on TL all day. 7 hours in between posts was basically my entire work day today. Chillax on that. | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
On June 18 2012 15:26 gonzaw wrote: I don't believe that you'd get so worked up against Palmar just because he called you "fucking useless" ONCE. He also called Ace "fucking useless", so he didn't even single you out. The "process of elimination" is a perk for me thinking you are scum even more (I've already wrote essays about you and your interactions with Palmar before, so I didn't think you were scum just because of a "process of elimination"). Also, you seem to ignore the issue as well. Who's scum? You are defending yourself a little bit too much ever since D3, but you are not scumhunting at all. We are in another LYLO tomorrow and you don't seem to care about it Also have fun defending yourself against that giant case I made against you It wasn't just that. He was offensive, loud, irritating, and generally an abrasive player all of day 1. When I called him on it once then disappeared because I was at work, he called me fucking useless. I can't tell if it's just the quality of play has fallen so low that doing something like that is now considered acceptable, or if you're just incapable of realizing that the people you're playing with have feelings, those feelings can get hurt, and that can cause people to be angry. Either way, you need to lay off that, it's a complete misread/red herring/what have you. As to your case - man, I'm gonna have to read through that tomorrow. I'm going to say this though - if town loses because they lynch me, I know exactly who to blame Let's be honest, you can't delude yourself any longer - despite your constant assurances to town that you aren't tunneling and you're open to anything, you've been tunneling me for the last day and a half. Explain that, sir. I'm starting to think gonzaw is at least suspicious, if not scum. The amount he dominates town discussion worries me. | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
On June 18 2012 16:07 gonzaw wrote: Hey BB, did you consider that proposal I made? You need to find the SK to win, so I'd say you get started on that. Tunneltunneltunneltunneltunneltunneltunnel Seriously how do you get away with saying something then not even a page later saying something entirely different? | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
sad gonzaw died, he was playing a pretty good game. Although, having him not tunneling me constantly is a good thing now | ||
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BrownBear
United States6894 Posts
Sorry guys! | ||
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