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Pick Your Poison Mafia
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prplhz
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prplhz
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prplhz
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I don't know if I fully understand the framer role so help me out here. He can visit ONE player during the night and then he can choose what alignment and role this player will show up as to cop. Additionally, he may make it look like the target player visited any other player in the game to the tracker. Do I understand it correctly? Can he visit himself? Do scum pick a guy to carry out night hits that tracker can see? | ||
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prplhz
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prplhz
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On May 29 2012 08:18 Radfield wrote: Do we get to talk during the selection phase? ^_^ | ||
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prplhz
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Regarding the roles: Godfather is the safest because scum can only use it in two ways (have Godfather carry out night kills or not), this will make for the least confusion among potential town blues. Framer is the worst to give them because it will allow scum (and also townies and blues) to question all checks made by cop/tracker. Role blocker is also potentially useful for scum, especially in connection with claims (and counterclaims and fake claims) which I think could become very important this game. Will anybody get told if they are roleblocked? I think it's more beneficial for town to reach majority+3 consensus on a role than it is for mafia that we do it. So I think we should all agree that Godfather is the safest thing we can do because it allows for the least manipulation by scum and the simplest logic always applying for town. The only down side is that potential cop can't always trust town checks but that's very much acceptable. I don't think scum will focus much on the role that they get when they consider the roles that they give us. Can scum pick two of the same role to give to town or do they have to pick two different roles? As for the poison, my thoughts have already been stated. We should try to eliminate poisons that get stronger as early as possible. Majority+1 and secret vote are the best candidates for this. Here are my thoughts (list is malleable): Use first: Majority+1, secret vote, secret ballot Use in the mid game: Mayoral election, lynch lock Use at LYLO or late game: No flip, 24 hour lynch Some people already said that we will be at even number players all game long baring medic saves, but vigilantes could also screw this up. Also, the no flip is not only alignment, it is also role which may suck since we cannot know if we killed the Godfather or just a goon. @Kurumi Could you give us the reason behind your thoughts? | ||
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prplhz
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Anyway, I'm voting for role blocker. I was a little worried about role blocker interfering with power roles but the chance of even hitting power roles isn't that big and we shouldn't rely on them too much anyway. | ||
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prplhz
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It's very important for town that we know what role we give them today to eliminate any sort of confusion. If we don't know what role we give them, then they can just argue as if they had any role, and town will just argue along with them. While it's very hard, I think it's very very important that we get a majority+3 on their role so we are absolutely sure what they got. This is even more important than what they end up getting. Tracker/Medic/Roleblocker combination sounds pretty good to me. What do you mean "without fear of the tracker caliming"? @Radfield What do you mean "scum are going to lie about their votes anyway"? | ||
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On May 30 2012 23:18 risk.nuke wrote: Just a thought, if scum votes anything but 1-1-1 in a secret vote it opens up the posssibility for them to get busted for lying. I don't understand this. How does that open up the possibility for them to get busted for lying? | ||
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prplhz
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@wherebugsgo What claims will roleblocker stop? You say that scum can just role block a tracker if he claims and they will not have to kill him, but they don't have to kill him with godfather either. The good thing is that we can trust investigative roles. You say that scum will never choose vigilante or innocent child, but will they ever choose 1-shot cop or tracker if we give them a role blocker? If not, then we will actually get at least one of those roles you say they'll never give us which is good. If they do, then we can trust their results, 1-shot cop would pretty much claim day2 and scum will not be able to kill him 'cause then they'd confirm his check. If we give them a role blocker then tracker shouldn't even claim unless he's got something juicy. What role do you think we should give scum? | ||
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prplhz
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On May 31 2012 05:40 slOosh wrote: You already got an answer prplhz. What are your current thoughts for today? That's a pretty generic question. I just think it's a little crazy that scum don't even get to vote, then it's really just going to be up to town and we're going to pick whatever. I also have no idea why Radfield is so much against encrypting our votes. It will do absolutely no harm and it might help us out. | ||
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I agree that it's a long shot but you seem weirdly against it instead of just going along with it. There's zero chance of harming town and a chance of getting some information about scum. Just do it man. | ||
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prplhz
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##### Encrypted: decrypt with http://www.fourmilab.ch/javascrypt/ ZZZZZ AXVQC OQTIL SAFUK IBHUC VHSFS HWJKE MWFTI IEQXP OVLUV GBRQO VRXCE MNOTG LLPBP BFODR HHRMT JWWMQ GCLPC PMNJM SVFVN OZZZZ YYYYY ##### End encrypted message | ||
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On May 31 2012 08:28 prplhz wrote: + Show Spoiler [vote] + ##### Encrypted: decrypt with http://www.fourmilab.ch/javascrypt/ ZZZZZ AXVQC OQTIL SAFUK IBHUC VHSFS HWJKE MWFTI IEQXP OVLUV GBRQO VRXCE MNOTG LLPBP BFODR HHRMT JWWMQ GCLPC PMNJM SVFVN OZZZZ YYYYY ##### End encrypted message My key is "brettmichaels" (the guy in the OP banner) and I voted for roleblocker. | ||
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prplhz
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People who encrypted their votes can "confirm" whatever they voted, people who didn't encrypt their votes can't. So people who encrypted their votes should really wait until everybody else has said what they voted for. If all the encrypters are town and we claim all of our votes first then this whole scheme would go down the drain because the scum will know the final vote tally. It's not like we need this information pronto anyway. Yea, I know I already wrote my vote but I didn't think of it until after that. | ||
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In his first post he asks host a question, but he never got an answer to that question even though I got an answer to my questions that I posted later. That didn't bother him at all. His participates in the discussion about poisons and his thoughts are alright but it doesn't look like he cares at all what role we pick for mafia. This is bad because if we end up with split wagons then we cannot know what role they have and they'll end up being able to argue for any role. 1-shot claims and has a green check? They can argue that he checked the godfather. Red check? They can argue that he was framed. They'll be able to push a chaotic agenda way easier than if we know what role they got. Scum knows town roles and the only way town can know scum role is if we get majority+3 or a flip but wherebugsgo doesn't seem to care about majority+3. He doesn't seem to mind if the votes are split evenly across roleblocker+framer at all. He looks like he doesn't care at all about what happens this game and I that's scummy. | ||
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prplhz
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But wherebugsgo isn't generally this lazy as town either, so we've got a wherebugsgo who is going against his town and his scum meta. Meta isn't something that can be used against wherebugsgo in my opinion, so I'm just going to read his filter and see if it's scummy or townie and I think that he looks like he doesn't care about this game at all and that's scummy. He's not the only one I'm looking at though if you're worried about that. @Toadesstern What do you think about it? You are acting as if my post had "Toadesstern" in place of all the "wherebugsgo"s. You are saying that you want more content and that the thread is in a bad state, and then you say that you're not going to do anything until everybody has been in here and told you their vote. That's pretty self contradictory behavior. Give me something. | ||
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prplhz
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I think that day0 was horrible because scum looks to be in a position where they can screw with town and we can't know what they actually picked. I have no idea about your guys who picked framer, not because you picked framer because it's debatable whether or not roleblocker is actually the best role. The role itself is hard to use (but so is roleblocker) but fact is that scum can use it to spread confusion by arguing against any checks. Checks aren't very strong in the first place and now they're going to get even worse. Anyway, the worst thing is that in the position we're in now it looks like scum can screw with town even more, because we don't know what role they got and then they can just argue that they have roleblocker if that fits their agenda and that they have framer if that fits their agenda. This game is open setup for scum right now and semi-closed for town and I think that's a huge blunder by town. The most important thing we had to do day1 was agree and I seriously expected anybody who disagreed with roleblocker to make convincing arguments for framer but all I ever saw was "it's hard to use" and some poorly thought through "it will mess with claims" (I'm guilty of that myself) and both of those arguments were addressed. Your second example, Radfield didn't convince me of anything. I have played with scum wherebugsgo and I know that he's usually a lot more active and he likes to have a lot of thread presence. Like I wrote in my reply, I chose to ignore that kind of meta because it's very useless with wherebugsgo. He's a strong and active scum player and he's a strong and active town player. Now he's not active. That's scummy. Kurumi's case on Radfield didn't convince me. It was based on Radfield promising that he would explain something sufficiently in the beginning of day1, and then Kurumi called him scum because he didn't explain it right now. Kurumi felt that pushing roleblocker was a scummy agenda and that Radfield was making promisses he couldn't keep just to further this and I think that idea is far fetched. Additionally, Radfield did explain and I think it looks legit. | ||
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prplhz
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Radfield explained why medic is a good role, not only can he save townies, he will also discourage scum from shooting into townies that the medic might protect and one successful protect would extend the game by a full day which is awesome. Vigilante is a role that can pretty much confirm itself just be breadcrumbing his shot before he shoots and that's really good too, especially if he actually hits scum. You need to calm down and take deep breath. Roleblocker isn't a horrible role, it's actually the best role. Even if it was horrible then why on earth would Radfield put himself out there like that to push scum agenda like you claim he is doing. What do you think about wherebugsgo, Navilus and risk.nuke? | ||
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prplhz
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On June 01 2012 04:18 Kurumi wrote: No. Framer does not work. It has a slim chance of working. Framer is a useless role. Try predicting the dt/tracker check. Have fun. Roleblocker on the other hand, if You get two blue reads off You can rb one guy and kill the other. Win win. So you are saying that we can trust all checks even with framer around because it only has a slim chance of working? Framer is a role that works even when they don't use it successfully, just like medic. Your second argument "if they get two blue reads in a day" then they can neutralize them both with roleblocker. What are the odds of them getting two correct bluereads in one day? Even if they did, without roleblocker they could just kill one and then kill the other. | ||
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prplhz
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Look at his day1 contributions. It's literally been two posts where he says he wants to lynch Kurumi because Kurumi isn't posting TF2 videos, nevermind that Kurumi did post pictures of Sadam Hussein and that Kurumi has played more seriously as town in his last few games. Also, we need to remember that we can't have people are majority-1, if someone is at majority-2 then you have to agree with somebody else to hammer them. This is because scum has a secret vote and will just hammer any majority-1 if they are town. I'm around, shoot me some questions if you want. I don't want to comment on everybody but I'll comment on some if people want me to. I still want to lynch wherebugsgo. | ||
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prplhz
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I apparently didn't get my vote counted 'cause I screwed up and only sent it to Bluelightz and not to kitaman27. Just so you know it. | ||
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If there is a tie, a random role from the tied roles will be selected. | ||
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wherebugsgo apparently isn't going anywhere. Both him, Navilus, and especially risk.nuke need to post more. | ||
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prplhz
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##Vote Sbrubbles I think his posts focus a lot more on how things affect scum than how it affects town which I think scum are prone to do. He also seems too reluctant to vote for HiroPro even though he's "very suspicious" and it's only like 7 hours until lynch. We're kind of in a hurry here. | ||
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prplhz
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How do you feel that Sbrubbles has argued in a way that's not scummy, but even townie? | ||
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I'm not saying he's new, I'm saying he's first time scum. | ||
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On June 02 2012 04:43 wherebugsgo wrote: [...] I disagree with a Sbrubbles lynch for now because I think the way he has discussed things is not scummy. His tone seems more like a townie talking about setup mechanics than a scum. [...] On June 02 2012 05:27 prplhz wrote: [...] How do you feel that Sbrubbles has argued in a way that's not scummy, but even townie? On June 02 2012 05:34 wherebugsgo wrote: As for your question on Sbrubbles I don't even know what that means I'm really just asking if you can clarify what you said. | ||
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... really? I'm saying that I doubt that a scum, especially a first time scum, who has experience playing this game, would play like this. With sarcastic comments and "lol", we're apparently done talking about Navilus. I've made myself clear and I don't really think you're going to get him lynched. I hope Radfield has some more time soon. Everybody else needs to start talking about the lynch too. risk.nuke is European so I think it's very weird that he hasn't said much about the lynch yet with us approaching deadline like this. It's almost 11PM in Europe. | ||
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@Zephirdd Why are you now afraid to get mod killed? (no, it's not obvious  at least not to me) | ||
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On June 02 2012 06:50 Zephirdd wrote: @prplhz because it's possible I will be away during the deadline and I don't want to be without a vote. I weighted what I know so far and I thought HiroPiro would be the vote I want to have at the deadline. Also, don't use the "that's not something mafia would do" reasoning. I've learned that from my last few games. I'm not going to use it forever, but right now it looks like something mafia wont do so I don't want to lynch him today. If he continues to do weird stuff that could be interpreted as scummy, then I'm going to put more focus on him. You are saying that someone put an argument out there that scum would do this and that, and then when somebody does exactly this, you say that he's scum? That seems too weird that scum would put themselves in a position like this unless there was a huge gain, what huge gain do you think this is? I'm now going to postulate that HiroPro isn't scum and that scum voted 2-1. Why do you think that's not likely? The vote was going to be split anyway and there were tons of people who didn't even encrypt so we can't verify what they did, HiroPro not only encrypted his vote and voted very early, he decided to vote for something that people had already said would be scummy. Even though scum would have something to gain by doing it, they would also have a lot to lose and they would know this. What do you think about Sbrubbles and Navilus? | ||
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I don't know how I manage to miss it all the time. I'm most likely joining a Navilus lynch because I want a lynch Before, he was just being afk and his day0 actions didn't look too different from everybody else. I played with him before when he was town and afk, and when he came back he was really sorry about it (and wrote a huge post explaining exactly why he was afk). He doesn't look remorseful at all here, that post looks like he wants any sort of heat off of him and hopes that I'll just keep defending him 'cause that's what I did before. Well I'm not gonna. I'm not all convinced about this but it's the best we can realistically achieve today I think. ##Unvote Sbrubbles ##Vote Navilus | ||
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Ah, so you don't have a gun then. | ||
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@Kurumi Dearest Kurumi, No I'm not afraid that I'll get shot tonight. I don't think it's all that likely that there is a vigilante and I think it's very unlikely that he would listen to your "case". And I didn't ask why you wanted to shoot me 'cause you actually already wrote your "case" in this thread, I even responded to it! Don't know what's so interesting about me not asking for something you already gave me, but in case you have more then just go ahead and post it. If there really is a vigilante he should shoot risk.nuke tonight 'cause that guy doesn't give a shit about this game. He's acted nonchalantly like this in other games, but I've never seen him not actually care about a game. In Death Factory Mafia 2 he kind of did something like this but he was blue and had a powerful role so he didn't need to get all analytic, in Space Station he was also a bit like this in thread but he was very much invested in the game in PMs. Even if he is town then you'd just be taking out the god damn trash. I'm exceedingly tipsy and I can't think all too straight right now. If anybody thinks I should vote something for poison then tell me. Otherwise, I'm going to vote for majority+1 'cause I think I remember agreeing with myself on this yesterday. | ||
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prplhz
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I thought about how a 3-1 endgame situation could turn out if scum just keeps doing no night actions, he could force us into poisons he liked if we no-lynch in response. I'm just going to do waht you said though 'cause it doesn't look like it matters all too much what I vote and hopefully we'll not get into a bad endgame situation. @Kurumi I'm ignoring you until you write something new. I decided last mini that I wouldn't let tunnelers get on my nerves again and I really don't think you have anything to contribute if the only thing you can say is "I'm vigilante and I'm shooting you". If you're doing some crazy plan counting on a potential roleblocker to roleblock you in case they picked vigilante and I'm scum then you're even more out of your mind than I feared. @Zephirdd Why are Radfield and Kurumi the two mayor candidates? | ||
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On June 03 2012 08:32 Kurumi wrote: Why do you speak like you don't care about being shot but you try to swing my opinion the heck How do I speak like I don't care about being shot? I just, in that very post, asked Radfield about his opinion on this whole vigilante thing. How is that not caring? How is arguing with you and you inexistant case all night1 not caring? Even though I shouldn't care because you have no case and no vigilante with a brain and eyes to read would shoot me, I argue with you. Are you seriously asking me why I don't want you to tunnel a townie and yell for a vigilante to shoot him? I'm done with you for now. Take a step back and then take a deep breath. I'm not responding to you unless you have something new or substantial to say. | ||
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On June 03 2012 08:52 talismania wrote: Hmm ok. The reason I asked was because I feel like you were actually articulating the optimal scum strategy. I was thinking about the hiropro push yesterday and how that was based entirely on the notion that scum would want to vote 1-1-1 to be as safe as possible from any analysis of the way votes were cast. Then I realized that the actual best scum strategy would be to do what you posted - get everyone in town to vote for one role, then blend in among the votes. Furthermore, in that case they would know exactly what roles to give town (you were arguing for godfather at the time - which means you were arguing essentially for town to receive a useless tracker). And there was still plenty of discussion d0. Yea I thought about how the tracker power would be useless, at least until the godfather was dead. But the tracker role would be useful all the time because he could claim and even though he didn't have any power it's unlikely that scum would fake claim tracker 'cause depending on how the game would turn out they could get outed. This is of course true for all roles, but all roles include the tracker. I still think that godfather was a pretty decent pick but I agree with Radfield that roleblocker was actually better. I think framer was a bad pick. | ||
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prplhz
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On June 03 2012 10:59 Toadesstern wrote: We lynch Prplhz today Here's why: I consider that mafia agenda. "It is very important for town that we know what role we give to eliminate confusion"? Yeah we eliminate mafia confusion by telling them what they'll get so they can counter pick,1 That's a lot of people he's willing to lynch without saying a thing about them except for wbg. The "case" on wbg was "WBG hasn't posted, therefore he has to be mafia because he doesn't care about the game" while at least half the players in this game had very few posts at that time. The rest is a bunch of mentions without actually saying why and I already said what I think about stuff like that:2 Looks like people testing watertemperature with their toes to check out what can get momentum without doing something themselves.3 Furthermore Navilus apparently was on his radar for not posting a lot, just like risk yet later on he says Nav not posting is a sign for townieness? Will come to that next but that's really odd.4 Navilus defense #1 The reasoning here basicly is: "He never played mafia before. I think he would know better than to hide like that with only 2 posts."5 I'd consider that a contradiction. Everyone knows people who play mafia for the first time and what's the most frequent mistake those people make? They're not posting because they're scared and trying to hide to hard. At least that's how I have seen most people play their first time game as mafia. This defense makes no sense from a townie point of view no matter who nav was talking about in his two posts.6 Navilus defense #2 Again. He says that first time scums mosty try not to stick out, as in they usually want to hide, yet he says "he absolutely knows how to do this better than this". How in the world do you know he can do better than this if he never played mafia before? How do you know he's not scared to post like most mafias are in their first game? Again, this defense makes so sense from a town point of view.7 Remember his posts from earlier? Sure wbg is not backing up a thing but he's giving his basic thoughts. Now look back a bit and check out the posts prplhz did when he wanted to hear oppinions / accused people. He said nothing, he simply mentioned the names except for the WBG "case". That's as hypocritical as it can get.8 Probably the weakest explanation for a vote I've ever seen. "sup guys. THAT GUY IS TOWN SHUT UP.... Oh, I guess he hasn't said he's sorry for being afk so long. Probably means he's mafia"9 Fancy conclusion:
Lynch Prplhz please, thanks. 1: I don't consider that mafia agenda. I think it's better that we know what role mafia has and mafia know what role they have and what roles we have, than that we don't know any roles, and mafia knows all roles. Again, right now we can't know if scum has roleblocker or framer and that's a bad situation for us. 2: I didn't have a huge reasonable for voting wherebugsgo I agree with that but if you look at how the state of the thread was at the time, nothing was happening, so I made a case that doubled as pressure vote and something to discuss. I had more reasonable on Sbrubbles than what you are posting so you are really just misrepresenting me here. Wanting to lynch you was because nobody was hooked on anything else and I have a hard time reading you while other people were thinking that you were scum so it was an okay lynch. I also NEVER SAID that wherebugsgo HAS TO BE SCUM. You are misrepresenting me. 3: How does it look like that? I want you to answer this question 'cause it looks to me like you're just taking the current buzzword and then applying it to a situation for no reason. If you read my posts you will see that I pushed wherebugsgo and Sbrubbles a lot harder than you make it look like, I'm not testing any waters. What does testing waters even mean? 4: Yea, different things goes for different people. I played with Navilus in Resistance 2, go read that game. He was afk for a long period of time and he was really sorry about it when he came back. I expected something similar this game but he wasn't sorry when he came back so I decided that he would be an okay lynch. 5: My reasoning was that a guy who has played some mafia, but hasn't been scum before, wouldn't try to hide by blatantly only make two measly posts. 6: Show me a game where a first time scum has played day1 with only two posts. Only people with well established meta would ever attempt to do that. You say it's happening all the time but I'm saying that it's actually never happening. Show me a single game, 'cause I have never seen it. Do you seriously think that only making 2 posts is a very clear scum tell? Then why didn't you push Navilus at all? This sounds like something you are just making up to use in this analysis. 7: How do you know that he is? He wasn't afraid to posts because I saw him post quite a lot on day1. How is making only 2 measly posts hiding? And are you seriously asking me "How can anybody have any conception about how it is to play scum when they have never played scum before?" because I consider that a very silly question. 8: I honestly don't even know what the accusations is here. What I do notice is that wherebugsgo gets some credit here for "not backing anything up, but still providing basic thoughts". You're accusing me of being scum for that very same reason in argument 2, and in argument 4 you're accusing me of being scum for having double standards! Hilarious. 9: Yea, maybe stuff is a little weak, but it was on day1. If you read his filter in Resistance 2 then you'll see him being quite sorry for being afk and I was expecting the same here, except if he didn't feel sorry at all because he was scum. Maybe it's weak, I don't particularly think so for a day1 argument. I didn't say "probably means he's mafia", this is blatant misrepresentation. If you read my posts I give my very clear read of him in that situation and that is, and I quote, because you apparently lack the ability to do so properly: "I'm not all convinced about this but it's the best we can realistically achieve today I think." which translate to "null slightly leaning scum". I'm sure that you, in your fervor, can find something you consider scummy about that too, but can you please argue with what I said instead of this misrepresentation. Your conclusion is pretty silly, but overall your analysis is so bullshit that I'm a little less worried about you now. Oh yeah, testing the waters? I think you did that too according to your definition about it, you make short mentions about me in your filter too, and then after Kurumi decides to mindlessly tunnel me for an entire night you jump on it and make a big case. Isn't that testing the waters? What does that even mean? | ||
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prplhz
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On June 03 2012 19:51 Kurumi wrote: so you wanted to lynch wbg whether he was town or scum? that's a touching story So you just claimed scum? Awesome. Hey, why is that "You" not capitalized? | ||
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prplhz
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Anyway, since this is tunnel city, I'm leaving this thread. I'll spend my time reading instead of responding to no-effort no-brain one liners from Kurumi. inb4 "he thinks he's getting lynched because he feels inherently guilty because he's scum". | ||
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@Toadesstern You didn't read Navilus' filter from Resistance 2 did you? Really, just read the 5 first posts and you'll see where I'm coming from with the whole Navilus deal. Here you go. I don't expect you to come around (at least not on your own) but I'm going to try to make it hard for you not to. Also, I'm not going to respond to your response 'cause I wouldn't achieve anything by it and I don't want to text wall this place up. Most of it is how you disagree with me and the stuff that I do and trying a little too hard to interpret it as scummy instead of keeping a neutral POV. It's really that simple and it never required a text wall from either of us to begin with. | ||
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It would really work a lot better if you had the patience to wait until I was clearly not going to do what you though I needed to do if I was town. If I'm town and I make a case now you'll just say "Hah! It was only because I reminded you!" while if I'm scum you'll say "Hah! It was only because I reminded you!". You can only achieve something by actually being quiet for just one moment and then see if I do what I promised like townies would be prone to do or if I get lazy like scum would be prone to do. Mafia is like quantum physics; you can't prod shit without also changing it and possibly rendering it completely useless. | ||
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Also I'd like to know why you preferred a potential vigilante killing me over risk.nuke last night, and what changed your opinion today. | ||
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I don't get how you can't read 5 short posts that I link you directly to but you have no quarrels expecting everybody else to read 1 game + 1 cycle when you're asking them to. | ||
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I also want you to answer my question from yesterday, why did you think that it was better that I was shot over risk.nuke? Why did you think, right before the deadline, that wherebugsgo wasn't looking good? | ||
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prplhz
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This is the only thing I actually find a little scummy but I think Toadesstern replied to it alright. His answer is confusing as hell but it doesn't seem scummy enough to warrant a lynch at all. Point 2: The bugs flip=flop Townies flip flop all the time. Scum Toadesstern had absolutely no incentive for flop flopping here. Why would a scum take something, call it null, then later bring that very same thing up again and call it scummy when it was pretty clear that wherebugsgo wasn't going to get lynched anyway? It's a high-risk-zero-gain maneuver and it makes no sense from scum perspective. Point 3: The scum slips I don't buy this. Toadesstern even posted at 10:59 KST, one minute before deadline and he provided a huge convoluted reason. His defense is shows that he thought about what he wrote in his own characteristic somewhat egocentric way. It seems too complex for scum to think this up so I'm going to say that this looks like a town tell to me after his response. Point 4: The prplhz case Having a really hard time to be objective here because it's about me and I suck at being objective. I think the case was horrible but I always think that about cases on me. I just don't see why scum Toadesstern would stay up until 3AM German time to write a horrible case on me when he could just not do that, there was no heat on him, the only heat there was in the thread was all on me, ideal situation for scum. He went to bed 5 minutes after he posted it. This looks kind of townie to me. At the danger of looking stupid later, I tentatively reject your case on Toadesstern. | ||
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On June 04 2012 22:28 Sbrubbles wrote: @prplhz, who do you think we should lynch today? Well, with Radfield it's almost like either we lynch him or we do what he says. I don't understand how he can say that he wouldn't be opposed to a vigilante shooting me over risk.nuke day1 because vigilantes on day1 shoot to take out trash. They don't shoot into active contributing people. It's pretty clear (and common knowledge I should think) that anybody should prefer having me around at LYLO as opposed to a guy who posted as poorly as risk.nuke. Radfield even says that he can get a clear read on risk.nuke, how can he get a clear read on somebody who is barely posting? Why can't he get a clear read on me when he's had that in the last few games we played together? That said, I don't think Radfield looks too much like he did in LotR mafia (where he was scum) and more like he did in more recent town games (that's why I want him to post a more recent scum game so I can see if he started playing differently). I have other scum reads but I really want to talk to Radfield first even though I know I'm cutting time short here. I also think that risk.nuke is on to something when he said that shooting wherebugsgo was about wherebugsgo's reads. If there isn't a medic then it's 100% sure that Radfield is scum 'cause there's no way in hell that scum would shoot wherebugsgo over Radfield. If there is a medic, then it's still a somewhat risky move to shoot wherebugsgo when instead they could have tried to bluesnipe (but maybe that's what they were doing I just thought right now). wherebugsgo wanted to lynch Navilus, risk.nuke, Toadesstern, and Kurumi and then he wanted to look into Navilus' middle voters; prplhz, Toadesstern, talismania, slOosh. There's something about that or else I don't see why scum would shoot wherebugsgo. | ||
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prplhz
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Yes, it's pretty much follow or lynch with Radfield. He's clearly the best player in this game and if I think he's town then it would be pretty dumb not to do what he says, while if I don't think he's town then it would be pretty dumb not to lynch him. But as should be very obvious, follow or lynch isn't always that simple and I'm not treating it as if it was that simple. You can probably see that I'm struggling a bit with this because I don't really want to do either thing. Maybe I just need more information, which is why I am asking for this information. Why do you think that Radfield is town Zephirdd? I asked you why you thought that Radfield and Kurumi were the two primary mayor candidates earlier but you never answered that, can you answer that question now? | ||
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prplhz
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The case on him will be extremely simple. The guy has not shown any interest in this game and while he can, at least superficially, be a bit lazy sometimes (see Death Factory Mafia 2 and Space Station Mafia), he is never this disinterested. His last post just pushed me over the edge. On June 05 2012 00:23 risk.nuke wrote: [weird stuff] I'm against lynching toad today. I don't have a good read on him and I think he will become easier to figure out later. What the hell, he will become easier later on? Toadesstern has a 5 page filter. That's 20% of the posts in a 12 player game. How the hell can't risk.nuke have a read on Toadesstern yet still be confident that he will become easier to figure out later on? I think he's just saying random stuff and not reading the thread at all. I also don't think that Toadesstern is scum and I think that risk.nuke is the most realistic alternative today. Done with it. He's shown no sign of actually wanting to step his game up so I don't want him around tomorrow. ##Vote risk.nuke | ||
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prplhz
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I think these are poor reasons for voting Toadesstern. Townies will explain their actions, and if the scumslip just requires more explanation than the rest then so be it. You seem to think that it's a scum tell that he didn't analyse the thread for what people were mostly angry with him about, and then address that the hardest. I would say that that would be a scummy thing to do. He addressed all points in Radfield's case, and it's not like the scumslip isn't convincing anybody, it's convinced Radfield, Kurumi, and you. The rambling about team balance is a bit weird but it looks genuine enough to me. Townies don't want to get lynched either. Fact is that even if he is scum, it was a slip. He didn't intend on it himself. He even has a story about how he considered that very line several times and how something someone else said in another game convinced him about whatever. This looks quite townie to me. I think that if scum are worried about a line, then they just god damn delete it, problem solved. He obviously dwelt at that line for some time and yet he ended up writing it even though scum are usually very paranoid. They think everything they write is scummy because they're inherently biased because they know that they're scum! So, do you really think that Toadesstern is scum just because he apparently addressed the scumslip a little harder than the rest of the points and because he started rambling a bit? What about everything else he did in this game, has that been scummy or is that null to you? | ||
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I don't even understand this question. Could you provide me with an example answer so that I may get an idea about what's going on inside your head? | ||
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On June 05 2012 05:30 slOosh wrote: Where are you getting the impression that the scumslip is why I think he is scum? This thread is on the lower side of post count. After Radfield's one time response against Toad's initial defense, Toad responds by specifically pointing out the scumslip. It is he himself who brings all the focus and attention on this point. It's only then that Radfield bites and they have that back and forth. This isn't a matter of his inability to discern what people's major suspicions on him are - because there aren't any in the thread yet! He is selectively choosing what to respond to - e.g. from this post by Radfield, he only responds to the third point. You seem to be doing the thing that Toad is doing and reading out of context. At the time no one expressed that the scumslip was the most damning aspect of the case. I am not really getting that impression. I wrote in the very first sentence "You are voting Toadesstern more so because of his defence than because of Radfield's case". Toadesstern responded to every single point 2 posts after Radfield's case. He then devoted a little more time to the scumslip, I don't really know why but he has a little story about it, and it blows up because this is what a lot of people latch on to and it becomes the hot topic. So you point is that it's he is scum, it's a real slip, and that's why he's so worried about it? Dunno, I don't think that it is. I think it looks like he had some more stuff to say about one point and then he said that. The whole "wherebugsgo said something in another game and then I wrote something and then deleted some of it" sounds too genuine to be something he's making up, the same with the "d2 means night1"-thing. If anything, his fast response to Radfield looks kinda like he isn't afraid of him, he doesn't gauge reactions of anything, he just goes straight for him. | ||
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I don't get why you are afraid of dying Radfield and I don't like how you are wobbling on risk.nuke. First "he's very likely scum" and then god damn 5 minutes later you didn't read his filter and you have no idea. | ||
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gg toad | ||
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His weird comment on Zephirdd. How he didn't have a read on Toadesstern but was confident that he'd get one later. How he didn't try to participate in this game, even in face of his imminent lynch. ##Vote: risk.nuke | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
We also have some poisons left: 24 hour day Secret ballot Hidden flip Mayoral election I think we should pick mayoral election for tomorrow and then consider having the innocent child claim. If we find someone else that people will agree is town then I don't think we should have the innocent child claim right away because an innocent child in LYLO could be devastating for scum. We should consider if there's someone else we can agree to elect and if not, then have the innocent child can claim for instant election. Talking about who we think is town might also give us a little more content to find the last scum. If risk.nuke flips scum then there's going to be zero scum influence on the election so we don't have to worry about that. Also, if risk.nuke flips scum then hidden flip becomes a freebie. So does secret ballot. 24 hour day isn't going to be a problem if we ever get that far. So no more poison! + Show Spoiler + Also, am I the only one who thinks it's annoying that they're hosting Pick Your Poison and Pick Your Power at the same time and keeps clicking the wrong thread and thinking "since when did marvellosity play in my game?"  | ||
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 at least i hope so ... | ||
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i don't even know what "fuck you zombies" means. | ||
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@Sbrubbles Yea hope you get over your anxiety, sorry for yelling at you day1 and hope to play with you again I don't think you played bad at all and you were absolutely defensible, this was just an uphill struggle for scum.@Kurumi I never understand what you're saying but then you nailed two scum in the end so you obviously played really well (except the whole going hard for Radfield and me but as long as it ended up in you wanting to lynch scum!). I thought you were scummy for some meta reasons at some point but I didn't want to push you 'cause other than that there wasn't much to go for. I think I once saw you write "I can't be meta'd" and I guess you're right I don't think that claiming vigilante and threatening someone is going to work though, if scum had a roleblocker they would have roleblocked you that night and you'd have thought I was scum or something like that. If anything it showed that you weren't blue 'cause you weren't afraid of getting roleblocked.@Zephirdd You played well and managed to establish yourself as townie to everybody and even attracted a night hit and that's really good! @HiroPro You also played well even though I still don't understand how you could think that there was a chance of godfather being picked for scum @Navillus Yea it's not all that great to be lynched day1. A little more effort was all it required, 2 measly posts on day1 isn't a lot. @talismania "When I'm scum I appear town and when I'm town I appear very town" is so accurate! I actually had you down as scummy from your very first line in your very first post ("I had these thoughts pregame" seemed like you were distancing yourself from your own ideas!) but then you seemed townie but then I thought to myself "In Space Station you knew he was town 12 hours into the game, why do you have these nagging suspicions?" Really well played by you. @Toadesstern You played well until Radfield "nailed your ass to the wall" but that could happen to anybody. Which is why you always shoot Radfield night1 as scum. I thought it was so weird that you didn't pick medic and then you didn't shoot Radfield 'cause he would be the very obvious medic target. @wherebugsgo l0l you don't need any sort of feedback from me @Radfield Same But nice analysis on Toadesstern, I know I'll be coming back and reading that again.@risk.nuke Sorry for being on your back about your day2 performance but I know you could have done a lot better. @slOosh Played well, I didn't expect you to be innocent child at all because you weren't all too vocal but you managed to establish yourself as town and no one ever pointed a finger at you while you figured out the scum team. Well done. I think scum's biggest mistake was not to kill Radfield on night1. The only reason you didn't pick medic was so you could shoot Radfield. wherebugsgo wasn't putting a lot of effort into this game and whatever he said could have been manipulated by you. Zephirdd on night3 was alright. I also disagree that the risk.nuke lynch was all bad, it was bad in the sense that he was townie but it was good in the sense that he looked scummy. There's a reason you get all votes in the game except your own. The rest of the lynches were okay too, Navilus obviously being the worst. @Bluelightz I don't understand how I played strange in your eyes, but Kurumi didn't By the way, I tracked Sbrubbles, risk.nuke, Kurumi and I didn't get anything on anyone. Thanks to kitaman27 and Bluelightz for hosting Great fun was had! | ||
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prplhz
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Look at how little "idiot" "retard" "stupid" "moron" "dumb" there was in this game: "idiot" was said 9 times, all referring to I'm A Cop You Idiot. Toadesstern was the only player who was ever called retarded, and that was by himself! Zephirdd called himself stupid, I called myself stupid, and Sbrubbles called innocent child a stupidly good role. No "moron". When it comes to "dumb" then I'm the biggest sinner, but never directly against another player, only in hypothetical situations ("I think it would be dumb to shoot me!") About Toadesstern/risk.nuke, of course Toadesstern was the best lynch but I didn't realize it. I thought he was kind of townie looking and he explained himself well but I eventually got around (I would have hammered Toadesstern but I wanted to see if someone else would hammer him after I said I would). | ||
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