EPTAh, so you don't have a gun then.
Pick Your Poison Mafia - Page 3
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
Ah, so you don't have a gun then. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
@Kurumi Dearest Kurumi, No I'm not afraid that I'll get shot tonight. I don't think it's all that likely that there is a vigilante and I think it's very unlikely that he would listen to your "case". And I didn't ask why you wanted to shoot me 'cause you actually already wrote your "case" in this thread, I even responded to it! Don't know what's so interesting about me not asking for something you already gave me, but in case you have more then just go ahead and post it. If there really is a vigilante he should shoot risk.nuke tonight 'cause that guy doesn't give a shit about this game. He's acted nonchalantly like this in other games, but I've never seen him not actually care about a game. In Death Factory Mafia 2 he kind of did something like this but he was blue and had a powerful role so he didn't need to get all analytic, in Space Station he was also a bit like this in thread but he was very much invested in the game in PMs. Even if he is town then you'd just be taking out the god damn trash. I'm exceedingly tipsy and I can't think all too straight right now. If anybody thinks I should vote something for poison then tell me. Otherwise, I'm going to vote for majority+1 'cause I think I remember agreeing with myself on this yesterday. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
I thought about how a 3-1 endgame situation could turn out if scum just keeps doing no night actions, he could force us into poisons he liked if we no-lynch in response. I'm just going to do waht you said though 'cause it doesn't look like it matters all too much what I vote and hopefully we'll not get into a bad endgame situation. @Kurumi I'm ignoring you until you write something new. I decided last mini that I wouldn't let tunnelers get on my nerves again and I really don't think you have anything to contribute if the only thing you can say is "I'm vigilante and I'm shooting you". If you're doing some crazy plan counting on a potential roleblocker to roleblock you in case they picked vigilante and I'm scum then you're even more out of your mind than I feared. @Zephirdd Why are Radfield and Kurumi the two mayor candidates? | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
On June 03 2012 08:32 Kurumi wrote: Why do you speak like you don't care about being shot but you try to swing my opinion the heck How do I speak like I don't care about being shot? I just, in that very post, asked Radfield about his opinion on this whole vigilante thing. How is that not caring? How is arguing with you and you inexistant case all night1 not caring? Even though I shouldn't care because you have no case and no vigilante with a brain and eyes to read would shoot me, I argue with you. Are you seriously asking me why I don't want you to tunnel a townie and yell for a vigilante to shoot him? I'm done with you for now. Take a step back and then take a deep breath. I'm not responding to you unless you have something new or substantial to say. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
On June 03 2012 08:52 talismania wrote: Hmm ok. The reason I asked was because I feel like you were actually articulating the optimal scum strategy. I was thinking about the hiropro push yesterday and how that was based entirely on the notion that scum would want to vote 1-1-1 to be as safe as possible from any analysis of the way votes were cast. Then I realized that the actual best scum strategy would be to do what you posted - get everyone in town to vote for one role, then blend in among the votes. Furthermore, in that case they would know exactly what roles to give town (you were arguing for godfather at the time - which means you were arguing essentially for town to receive a useless tracker). And there was still plenty of discussion d0. Yea I thought about how the tracker power would be useless, at least until the godfather was dead. But the tracker role would be useful all the time because he could claim and even though he didn't have any power it's unlikely that scum would fake claim tracker 'cause depending on how the game would turn out they could get outed. This is of course true for all roles, but all roles include the tracker. I still think that godfather was a pretty decent pick but I agree with Radfield that roleblocker was actually better. I think framer was a bad pick. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
On June 03 2012 10:59 Toadesstern wrote: We lynch Prplhz today Here's why: I consider that mafia agenda. "It is very important for town that we know what role we give to eliminate confusion"? Yeah we eliminate mafia confusion by telling them what they'll get so they can counter pick,1 That's a lot of people he's willing to lynch without saying a thing about them except for wbg. The "case" on wbg was "WBG hasn't posted, therefore he has to be mafia because he doesn't care about the game" while at least half the players in this game had very few posts at that time. The rest is a bunch of mentions without actually saying why and I already said what I think about stuff like that:2 Looks like people testing watertemperature with their toes to check out what can get momentum without doing something themselves.3 Furthermore Navilus apparently was on his radar for not posting a lot, just like risk yet later on he says Nav not posting is a sign for townieness? Will come to that next but that's really odd.4 Navilus defense #1 The reasoning here basicly is: "He never played mafia before. I think he would know better than to hide like that with only 2 posts."5 I'd consider that a contradiction. Everyone knows people who play mafia for the first time and what's the most frequent mistake those people make? They're not posting because they're scared and trying to hide to hard. At least that's how I have seen most people play their first time game as mafia. This defense makes no sense from a townie point of view no matter who nav was talking about in his two posts.6 Navilus defense #2 Again. He says that first time scums mosty try not to stick out, as in they usually want to hide, yet he says "he absolutely knows how to do this better than this". How in the world do you know he can do better than this if he never played mafia before? How do you know he's not scared to post like most mafias are in their first game? Again, this defense makes so sense from a town point of view.7 Remember his posts from earlier? Sure wbg is not backing up a thing but he's giving his basic thoughts. Now look back a bit and check out the posts prplhz did when he wanted to hear oppinions / accused people. He said nothing, he simply mentioned the names except for the WBG "case". That's as hypocritical as it can get.8 Probably the weakest explanation for a vote I've ever seen. "sup guys. THAT GUY IS TOWN SHUT UP.... Oh, I guess he hasn't said he's sorry for being afk so long. Probably means he's mafia"9 Fancy conclusion:
Lynch Prplhz please, thanks. 1: I don't consider that mafia agenda. I think it's better that we know what role mafia has and mafia know what role they have and what roles we have, than that we don't know any roles, and mafia knows all roles. Again, right now we can't know if scum has roleblocker or framer and that's a bad situation for us. 2: I didn't have a huge reasonable for voting wherebugsgo I agree with that but if you look at how the state of the thread was at the time, nothing was happening, so I made a case that doubled as pressure vote and something to discuss. I had more reasonable on Sbrubbles than what you are posting so you are really just misrepresenting me here. Wanting to lynch you was because nobody was hooked on anything else and I have a hard time reading you while other people were thinking that you were scum so it was an okay lynch. I also NEVER SAID that wherebugsgo HAS TO BE SCUM. You are misrepresenting me. 3: How does it look like that? I want you to answer this question 'cause it looks to me like you're just taking the current buzzword and then applying it to a situation for no reason. If you read my posts you will see that I pushed wherebugsgo and Sbrubbles a lot harder than you make it look like, I'm not testing any waters. What does testing waters even mean? 4: Yea, different things goes for different people. I played with Navilus in Resistance 2, go read that game. He was afk for a long period of time and he was really sorry about it when he came back. I expected something similar this game but he wasn't sorry when he came back so I decided that he would be an okay lynch. 5: My reasoning was that a guy who has played some mafia, but hasn't been scum before, wouldn't try to hide by blatantly only make two measly posts. 6: Show me a game where a first time scum has played day1 with only two posts. Only people with well established meta would ever attempt to do that. You say it's happening all the time but I'm saying that it's actually never happening. Show me a single game, 'cause I have never seen it. Do you seriously think that only making 2 posts is a very clear scum tell? Then why didn't you push Navilus at all? This sounds like something you are just making up to use in this analysis. 7: How do you know that he is? He wasn't afraid to posts because I saw him post quite a lot on day1. How is making only 2 measly posts hiding? And are you seriously asking me "How can anybody have any conception about how it is to play scum when they have never played scum before?" because I consider that a very silly question. 8: I honestly don't even know what the accusations is here. What I do notice is that wherebugsgo gets some credit here for "not backing anything up, but still providing basic thoughts". You're accusing me of being scum for that very same reason in argument 2, and in argument 4 you're accusing me of being scum for having double standards! Hilarious. 9: Yea, maybe stuff is a little weak, but it was on day1. If you read his filter in Resistance 2 then you'll see him being quite sorry for being afk and I was expecting the same here, except if he didn't feel sorry at all because he was scum. Maybe it's weak, I don't particularly think so for a day1 argument. I didn't say "probably means he's mafia", this is blatant misrepresentation. If you read my posts I give my very clear read of him in that situation and that is, and I quote, because you apparently lack the ability to do so properly: "I'm not all convinced about this but it's the best we can realistically achieve today I think." which translate to "null slightly leaning scum". I'm sure that you, in your fervor, can find something you consider scummy about that too, but can you please argue with what I said instead of this misrepresentation. Your conclusion is pretty silly, but overall your analysis is so bullshit that I'm a little less worried about you now. Oh yeah, testing the waters? I think you did that too according to your definition about it, you make short mentions about me in your filter too, and then after Kurumi decides to mindlessly tunnel me for an entire night you jump on it and make a big case. Isn't that testing the waters? What does that even mean? | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
On June 03 2012 19:51 Kurumi wrote: so you wanted to lynch wbg whether he was town or scum? that's a touching story So you just claimed scum? Awesome. Hey, why is that "You" not capitalized? | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
Anyway, since this is tunnel city, I'm leaving this thread. I'll spend my time reading instead of responding to no-effort no-brain one liners from Kurumi. inb4 "he thinks he's getting lynched because he feels inherently guilty because he's scum". | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
@Toadesstern You didn't read Navilus' filter from Resistance 2 did you? Really, just read the 5 first posts and you'll see where I'm coming from with the whole Navilus deal. Here you go. I don't expect you to come around (at least not on your own) but I'm going to try to make it hard for you not to. Also, I'm not going to respond to your response 'cause I wouldn't achieve anything by it and I don't want to text wall this place up. Most of it is how you disagree with me and the stuff that I do and trying a little too hard to interpret it as scummy instead of keeping a neutral POV. It's really that simple and it never required a text wall from either of us to begin with. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
It would really work a lot better if you had the patience to wait until I was clearly not going to do what you though I needed to do if I was town. If I'm town and I make a case now you'll just say "Hah! It was only because I reminded you!" while if I'm scum you'll say "Hah! It was only because I reminded you!". You can only achieve something by actually being quiet for just one moment and then see if I do what I promised like townies would be prone to do or if I get lazy like scum would be prone to do. Mafia is like quantum physics; you can't prod shit without also changing it and possibly rendering it completely useless. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
Also I'd like to know why you preferred a potential vigilante killing me over risk.nuke last night, and what changed your opinion today. | ||
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prplhz
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prplhz
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I don't get how you can't read 5 short posts that I link you directly to but you have no quarrels expecting everybody else to read 1 game + 1 cycle when you're asking them to. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
I also want you to answer my question from yesterday, why did you think that it was better that I was shot over risk.nuke? Why did you think, right before the deadline, that wherebugsgo wasn't looking good? | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
This is the only thing I actually find a little scummy but I think Toadesstern replied to it alright. His answer is confusing as hell but it doesn't seem scummy enough to warrant a lynch at all. Point 2: The bugs flip=flop Townies flip flop all the time. Scum Toadesstern had absolutely no incentive for flop flopping here. Why would a scum take something, call it null, then later bring that very same thing up again and call it scummy when it was pretty clear that wherebugsgo wasn't going to get lynched anyway? It's a high-risk-zero-gain maneuver and it makes no sense from scum perspective. Point 3: The scum slips I don't buy this. Toadesstern even posted at 10:59 KST, one minute before deadline and he provided a huge convoluted reason. His defense is shows that he thought about what he wrote in his own characteristic somewhat egocentric way. It seems too complex for scum to think this up so I'm going to say that this looks like a town tell to me after his response. Point 4: The prplhz case Having a really hard time to be objective here because it's about me and I suck at being objective. I think the case was horrible but I always think that about cases on me. I just don't see why scum Toadesstern would stay up until 3AM German time to write a horrible case on me when he could just not do that, there was no heat on him, the only heat there was in the thread was all on me, ideal situation for scum. He went to bed 5 minutes after he posted it. This looks kind of townie to me. At the danger of looking stupid later, I tentatively reject your case on Toadesstern. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
On June 04 2012 22:28 Sbrubbles wrote: @prplhz, who do you think we should lynch today? Well, with Radfield it's almost like either we lynch him or we do what he says. I don't understand how he can say that he wouldn't be opposed to a vigilante shooting me over risk.nuke day1 because vigilantes on day1 shoot to take out trash. They don't shoot into active contributing people. It's pretty clear (and common knowledge I should think) that anybody should prefer having me around at LYLO as opposed to a guy who posted as poorly as risk.nuke. Radfield even says that he can get a clear read on risk.nuke, how can he get a clear read on somebody who is barely posting? Why can't he get a clear read on me when he's had that in the last few games we played together? That said, I don't think Radfield looks too much like he did in LotR mafia (where he was scum) and more like he did in more recent town games (that's why I want him to post a more recent scum game so I can see if he started playing differently). I have other scum reads but I really want to talk to Radfield first even though I know I'm cutting time short here. I also think that risk.nuke is on to something when he said that shooting wherebugsgo was about wherebugsgo's reads. If there isn't a medic then it's 100% sure that Radfield is scum 'cause there's no way in hell that scum would shoot wherebugsgo over Radfield. If there is a medic, then it's still a somewhat risky move to shoot wherebugsgo when instead they could have tried to bluesnipe (but maybe that's what they were doing I just thought right now). wherebugsgo wanted to lynch Navilus, risk.nuke, Toadesstern, and Kurumi and then he wanted to look into Navilus' middle voters; prplhz, Toadesstern, talismania, slOosh. There's something about that or else I don't see why scum would shoot wherebugsgo. | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
Yes, it's pretty much follow or lynch with Radfield. He's clearly the best player in this game and if I think he's town then it would be pretty dumb not to do what he says, while if I don't think he's town then it would be pretty dumb not to lynch him. But as should be very obvious, follow or lynch isn't always that simple and I'm not treating it as if it was that simple. You can probably see that I'm struggling a bit with this because I don't really want to do either thing. Maybe I just need more information, which is why I am asking for this information. Why do you think that Radfield is town Zephirdd? I asked you why you thought that Radfield and Kurumi were the two primary mayor candidates earlier but you never answered that, can you answer that question now? | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
The case on him will be extremely simple. The guy has not shown any interest in this game and while he can, at least superficially, be a bit lazy sometimes (see Death Factory Mafia 2 and Space Station Mafia), he is never this disinterested. His last post just pushed me over the edge. On June 05 2012 00:23 risk.nuke wrote: [weird stuff] I'm against lynching toad today. I don't have a good read on him and I think he will become easier to figure out later. What the hell, he will become easier later on? Toadesstern has a 5 page filter. That's 20% of the posts in a 12 player game. How the hell can't risk.nuke have a read on Toadesstern yet still be confident that he will become easier to figure out later on? I think he's just saying random stuff and not reading the thread at all. I also don't think that Toadesstern is scum and I think that risk.nuke is the most realistic alternative today. Done with it. He's shown no sign of actually wanting to step his game up so I don't want him around tomorrow. ##Vote risk.nuke | ||
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prplhz
Denmark8045 Posts
I think these are poor reasons for voting Toadesstern. Townies will explain their actions, and if the scumslip just requires more explanation than the rest then so be it. You seem to think that it's a scum tell that he didn't analyse the thread for what people were mostly angry with him about, and then address that the hardest. I would say that that would be a scummy thing to do. He addressed all points in Radfield's case, and it's not like the scumslip isn't convincing anybody, it's convinced Radfield, Kurumi, and you. The rambling about team balance is a bit weird but it looks genuine enough to me. Townies don't want to get lynched either. Fact is that even if he is scum, it was a slip. He didn't intend on it himself. He even has a story about how he considered that very line several times and how something someone else said in another game convinced him about whatever. This looks quite townie to me. I think that if scum are worried about a line, then they just god damn delete it, problem solved. He obviously dwelt at that line for some time and yet he ended up writing it even though scum are usually very paranoid. They think everything they write is scummy because they're inherently biased because they know that they're scum! So, do you really think that Toadesstern is scum just because he apparently addressed the scumslip a little harder than the rest of the points and because he started rambling a bit? What about everything else he did in this game, has that been scummy or is that null to you? | ||
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