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@talismania Your first example says "a bunch of Radfield posts about roleblocker" and those were what was convincing. Radfield clearly put a lot more work into thinking about the setup and making his thoughts clear than the framer supporters.
I think that day0 was horrible because scum looks to be in a position where they can screw with town and we can't know what they actually picked. I have no idea about your guys who picked framer, not because you picked framer because it's debatable whether or not roleblocker is actually the best role. The role itself is hard to use (but so is roleblocker) but fact is that scum can use it to spread confusion by arguing against any checks. Checks aren't very strong in the first place and now they're going to get even worse. Anyway, the worst thing is that in the position we're in now it looks like scum can screw with town even more, because we don't know what role they got and then they can just argue that they have roleblocker if that fits their agenda and that they have framer if that fits their agenda. This game is open setup for scum right now and semi-closed for town and I think that's a huge blunder by town. The most important thing we had to do day1 was agree and I seriously expected anybody who disagreed with roleblocker to make convincing arguments for framer but all I ever saw was "it's hard to use" and some poorly thought through "it will mess with claims" (I'm guilty of that myself) and both of those arguments were addressed.
Your second example, Radfield didn't convince me of anything. I have played with scum wherebugsgo and I know that he's usually a lot more active and he likes to have a lot of thread presence. Like I wrote in my reply, I chose to ignore that kind of meta because it's very useless with wherebugsgo. He's a strong and active scum player and he's a strong and active town player. Now he's not active. That's scummy.
Kurumi's case on Radfield didn't convince me. It was based on Radfield promising that he would explain something sufficiently in the beginning of day1, and then Kurumi called him scum because he didn't explain it right now. Kurumi felt that pushing roleblocker was a scummy agenda and that Radfield was making promisses he couldn't keep just to further this and I think that idea is far fetched. Additionally, Radfield did explain and I think it looks legit.
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@Kurumi The difference is that roleblocker only works if he actually hits a blue, framer works regardless of whether he hits a blue. If we get a tracker check, then we're going to argue about it now because there are people who will say "he was framed". Before, we could just trust it if we trusted the guy it came from and he wouldn't claim if he wasn't willing to put his life on the line anyway.
Radfield explained why medic is a good role, not only can he save townies, he will also discourage scum from shooting into townies that the medic might protect and one successful protect would extend the game by a full day which is awesome. Vigilante is a role that can pretty much confirm itself just be breadcrumbing his shot before he shoots and that's really good too, especially if he actually hits scum.
You need to calm down and take deep breath. Roleblocker isn't a horrible role, it's actually the best role. Even if it was horrible then why on earth would Radfield put himself out there like that to push scum agenda like you claim he is doing.
What do you think about wherebugsgo, Navilus and risk.nuke?
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On June 01 2012 04:18 Kurumi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 01 2012 04:15 prplhz wrote:
@Kurumi The difference is that roleblocker only works if he actually hits a blue, framer works regardless of whether he hits a blue. If we get a tracker check, then we're going to argue about it now because there are people who will say "he was framed". Before, we could just trust it if we trusted the guy it came from and he wouldn't claim if he wasn't willing to put his life on the line anyway.
Radfield explained why medic is a good role, not only can he save townies, he will also discourage scum from shooting into townies that the medic might protect and one successful protect would extend the game by a full day which is awesome. Vigilante is a role that can pretty much confirm itself just be breadcrumbing his shot before he shoots and that's really good too, especially if he actually hits scum.
You need to calm down and take deep breath. Roleblocker isn't a horrible role, it's actually the best role. Even if it was horrible then why on earth would Radfield put himself out there like that to push scum agenda like you claim he is doing.
What do you think about wherebugsgo, Navilus and risk.nuke? No. Framer does not work. It has a slim chance of working. Framer is a useless role. Try predicting the dt/tracker check. Have fun. Roleblocker on the other hand, if You get two blue reads off You can rb one guy and kill the other. Win win.
So you are saying that we can trust all checks even with framer around because it only has a slim chance of working? Framer is a role that works even when they don't use it successfully, just like medic.
Your second argument "if they get two blue reads in a day" then they can neutralize them both with roleblocker. What are the odds of them getting two correct bluereads in one day? Even if they did, without roleblocker they could just kill one and then kill the other.
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I still want to lynch wherebugsgo.
Look at his day1 contributions. It's literally been two posts where he says he wants to lynch Kurumi because Kurumi isn't posting TF2 videos, nevermind that Kurumi did post pictures of Sadam Hussein and that Kurumi has played more seriously as town in his last few games.
Also, we need to remember that we can't have people are majority-1, if someone is at majority-2 then you have to agree with somebody else to hammer them. This is because scum has a secret vote and will just hammer any majority-1 if they are town.
I'm around, shoot me some questions if you want. I don't want to comment on everybody but I'll comment on some if people want me to.
I still want to lynch wherebugsgo.
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Oh yea I totally forgot.
I apparently didn't get my vote counted 'cause I screwed up and only sent it to Bluelightz and not to kitaman27.
Just so you know it.
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No.
If there is a tie, a random role from the tied roles will be selected.
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I'm okay with lynching Sbrubbles.
wherebugsgo apparently isn't going anywhere. Both him, Navilus, and especially risk.nuke need to post more.
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Actually,
##Vote Sbrubbles
I think his posts focus a lot more on how things affect scum than how it affects town which I think scum are prone to do. He also seems too reluctant to vote for HiroPro even though he's "very suspicious" and it's only like 7 hours until lynch. We're kind of in a hurry here.
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@wherebugsgo I don't think that Navilus is scum. First, the guy has never played scum before. Second, his only contributions on day1 so far has been a post saying what he voted, and him calling you out. It doesn't look like he's just trying to avoid mod kill and it very much doesn't look like he's scum trying to hide with only 2 paltry posts during the whole day. I don't think first time scum will not do anything during the day than pick on a town wherebugsgo (but then again, are you town?) Moreover, in the last game I played with him he was also unavailable for a part of the game. You say that he didn't comment on the lynch, one thing that all scum knows to do at all times is have some sort of opinion on the lynch. I'd very much like to keep him around for now.
How do you feel that Sbrubbles has argued in a way that's not scummy, but even townie?
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Read his town games, read his day0 play this game, first time scum mostly try not to stick out and he absolutely knows how to do this better than this. He is sticking out very much with his two measly posts and I very much doubt any scum would think that this would ever be enough not to get lynched. I expect him to get back and tell us why he's been playing so horribly on day1 but I don't think that he's scum right now.
I'm not saying he's new, I'm saying he's first time scum.
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On June 02 2012 04:43 wherebugsgo wrote:
[...]
I disagree with a Sbrubbles lynch for now because I think the way he has discussed things is not scummy.
His tone seems more like a townie talking about setup mechanics than a scum.
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On June 02 2012 05:27 prplhz wrote:
[...]
How do you feel that Sbrubbles has argued in a way that's not scummy, but even townie?
On June 02 2012 05:34 wherebugsgo wrote:
As for your question on Sbrubbles I don't even know what that means
I'm really just asking if you can clarify what you said.
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On June 02 2012 05:43 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2012 05:42 prplhz wrote:
Read his town games, read his day0 play this game, first time scum mostly try not to stick out and he absolutely knows how to do this better than this. He is sticking out very much with his two measly posts and I very much doubt any scum would think that this would ever be enough not to get lynched. I expect him to get back and tell us why he's been playing so horribly on day1 but I don't think that he's scum right now.
I'm not saying he's new, I'm saying he's first time scum. ?!?!?
... really?
I'm saying that I doubt that a scum, especially a first time scum, who has experience playing this game, would play like this. With sarcastic comments and "lol", we're apparently done talking about Navilus. I've made myself clear and I don't really think you're going to get him lynched.
I hope Radfield has some more time soon. Everybody else needs to start talking about the lynch too. risk.nuke is European so I think it's very weird that he hasn't said much about the lynch yet with us approaching deadline like this. It's almost 11PM in Europe.
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Why are you an easy candidate Zephirdd?
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No that wasn't obvious or I would not have asked you. You have one vote, so do Navilus and Sbrubbles. Are they easy targets too? Why didn't he pick them? What makes you an easier target than them?
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HiroPro voted godfather after risk.nuke pointed out that scum would vote just that. I think that scum voted 2-1 in favor of framer (but I think that the framer people might think 2-1 in favor of roleblocker), and I certainly don't think that scum would try to "ninja" their vote like this. I'm in favor of keeping HiroPro around to today.
@Zephirdd Why are you now afraid to get mod killed? (no, it's not obvious  at least not to me)
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On June 02 2012 06:50 Zephirdd wrote:
@prplhz because it's possible I will be away during the deadline and I don't want to be without a vote. I weighted what I know so far and I thought HiroPiro would be the vote I want to have at the deadline.
Also, don't use the "that's not something mafia would do" reasoning. I've learned that from my last few games.
I'm not going to use it forever, but right now it looks like something mafia wont do so I don't want to lynch him today. If he continues to do weird stuff that could be interpreted as scummy, then I'm going to put more focus on him. You are saying that someone put an argument out there that scum would do this and that, and then when somebody does exactly this, you say that he's scum? That seems too weird that scum would put themselves in a position like this unless there was a huge gain, what huge gain do you think this is? I'm now going to postulate that HiroPro isn't scum and that scum voted 2-1. Why do you think that's not likely? The vote was going to be split anyway and there were tons of people who didn't even encrypt so we can't verify what they did, HiroPro not only encrypted his vote and voted very early, he decided to vote for something that people had already said would be scummy. Even though scum would have something to gain by doing it, they would also have a lot to lose and they would know this.
What do you think about Sbrubbles and Navilus?
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@HiroPro You absolutely need to get in here right now and start talking.
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I'm up for Toadesstern since Sbrubbles isn't happening.
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Blues always say stuff like "It's really not a good idea to lynch me." and "Trust me on this one." and "Town shouldn't lynch me."
I don't know how I manage to miss it all the time.
I'm most likely joining a Navilus lynch because I want a lynch Before, he was just being afk and his day0 actions didn't look too different from everybody else. I played with him before when he was town and afk, and when he came back he was really sorry about it (and wrote a huge post explaining exactly why he was afk). He doesn't look remorseful at all here, that post looks like he wants any sort of heat off of him and hopes that I'll just keep defending him 'cause that's what I did before.
Well I'm not gonna. I'm not all convinced about this but it's the best we can realistically achieve today I think.
##Unvote Sbrubbles
##Vote Navilus
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I don't think it's all that likely that there is a vigilante, but if there is and he shoots me on Kurumi's "case" then he needs to get his brain examined. I don't know why Kurumi is acting like it's 100% sure that there is a vigilante but it could just be a crazy Kurumi plan.
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EPT
