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Forum Index > TL Mafia
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austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
June 07 2012 21:21 GMT
#581
Toad, in your official vote count, we're all black. Could you color the names in green and red so we've got a better idea here?
Fe fi fo fum.
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
June 07 2012 21:36 GMT
#584
On June 08 2012 06:34 Unforgiven_ve wrote:
Lol, welcome scum!
I was refering “confused“ because (as you say) my bad written post.
If there's a no lynch today, my suspicion on xatalos would drop “a lot“ and austinc/shaopi
Would be my second choice. There's no way a real townie would be that bad
I'm starting to really hope you're not town. Because I can't place your play if you are. You won't give specific answers, you won't be helpful in trying to push your candidates. Not now, but post game, I'd like to know why you're against the no lynch. I'm still seeing it as the optimal play before heist came back.
Fe fi fo fum.
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
June 07 2012 21:45 GMT
#590
In the scenario where we had 2 lurkers, it gave us more time. We either won no matter what, lost no matter what, or had the potential to win either today or tomorrow. The no lynch would have given us the extra day.

In the scenario with 1 lurker, I don't want to waste my time on figuring it out. Lurker town, all town has to be on a mafia. Whoever isn't on that person is the remaining mafia. Lurker mafia, we either win today or go 3/1 or 4/1 tomorrow depending on whether we lynch or no lynch
Fe fi fo fum.
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
June 07 2012 21:49 GMT
#592
Okay, here's my thinking. I'm not convinced on heist. But everyone else and their grandma is, and I'm not all that good at reading people in this game yet, from the way my suspicions have flipped in XIII and here.

If we no-lynch, we get an extra day. Always. We have a modkill or no modkill, a NK, and we're back here tomorrow.
If we lynch, we've got a chance to win today IF we lynch correctly AND the lurker is scum, we've got a chance to lose today IF we mislynch AND the lurker is town. A mix puts us through to another day.
Fe fi fo fum.
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
June 07 2012 21:58 GMT
#601
Alright, fine. We'll keep it simple. Had a lot of people convinced that heist is scum. Both NKs, most people today, etc.

##Unvote
##Vote: heist


Unforgiven, if you flip town I'm not going to be able to believe this
Fe fi fo fum.
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
June 07 2012 22:17 GMT
#609
Going to assume that everyone thinks Shiao is the final mafia?
Fe fi fo fum.
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
June 08 2012 14:21 GMT
#628
Going to be looking at xatalos and shiaopi.

Unforgiven's outburst at least convinced me to drop the scum read I had on him.
Fe fi fo fum.
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
June 08 2012 21:04 GMT
#640
Unforgiven, apart from one post in this thread, nobody has brought up the language issue. You're the only person who keeps mentioning it.

All my stuff with you was that you would post a conclusion with nothing to back it up. That's not a language barrier issue, you just wouldn't explain yourself, and if asked to, you became hostile.

Looking over reads and posting before night.
Fe fi fo fum.
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
June 08 2012 21:38 GMT
#642
Okay so, here are some thoughts as I do a read through, without addressing the cases. I'm just reading through the thing and giving comments wherever a post of Golden/Shiao or Xatalos sticks out. Very disorganized, but at least I'll get it all out and you can look over it if I'm the night target:

D1 - heist and suki are both pushing cattivik once you hit pg. 7 or 8. Golden also believes cattivik scum, while xatalos defends him. Golden not just saying he's scum, but pushing a scum read on xatalos towards eishi + Show Spoiler +
On May 31 2012 22:40 O.Golden_ne wrote:
@Eishi_ki: Consider if Xatalos is scum. This is opinion on Cattivik, who i think is scum.

"Another player I noticed was Cattivik. So far he has been analyzing the game, posting reads, calling out lurkers - all in all, playing for town's win condition. I didn't like him giving sciberbia a free pass just because he was the "first to post", but disregarding that, his filter looks good."

Food for thought.

Heist and golden continue to just sort of lightly push Cattivik as most of our confirmed townies come in and say they found him townie.

D1 - this post + Show Spoiler +
On June 01 2012 14:20 O.Golden_ne wrote:
@Sciberbia. I'm uncertain of suki at the moment. but i'm worried that a bandwagon is forming on him. we need to rationally consider a few options. i need to mull over suki's filter a while longer before condemning him. I feel that we may be more prosperous lynching some lurchers first, because as far as scumminess goes if suki is mafia (or anyone for that matter) chances are they'll keep digging themselves a hole if we can see it this early. I'm just so super wary of lurker now because of their potentially game changing absence.

I guess what i'm trying to say is. scumslips will stay on the record, and chances are if they are scumslipping this early they'll continue as time goes on. Lurker however, if not dealt with early in the game where they are less of a % of the team, may end up in the final rounds where the % of town per player is alot higher and the responsibility of town individuals is even higher.

These are my thoughts. more soon. x
Take out the uncertainty, look at the rest of the message. He's not just uncertain of suki, but uncertain because a bandwagon may be forming. Just prior to this, unforgiven posts on suki and votes, sciberbia posts a sizable analysis of suki and votes. Sciberbia notes that three hours have passed since his case and nobody responded. When sciberbia calls attention to the fact that he posted a case and nobody responded, golden jumps to the rescue. He's uncertain of suki because a bandwagon may be forming. Yet the bandwagon is a whopping two votes large, and the second vote came with a sizable analysis of why suki is scummy. That's not a bandwagon. That's a bad excuse from golden to defend suki.

D1 - Xatalos DOES keep changing his reads. And he DOES keep asking for other opinions. See things like - + Show Spoiler +
On June 01 2012 15:07 Xatalos wrote:
I have to go offline until the evening, but there's a lot I want to comment on then. I must say I'm not as certain anymore about Unforgiven_ve's guiltiness after reading his latest post. What do you think about that post, s0Lstice and Suki? Did you get that slight townie read from it?

Superouman and Ange777, I REALLY want to hear something from you both soon. If Unforgiven_ve keeps up this style of posting, it would be better to lynch either of you (to at least certainly limit the pool of suspicious and useless lurkers/coasters).

. When Xatalos backs of unforgiven and votes ange there are two votes on ange. Milton and vivax. Milton, I'm calling you confirmed town here, so you've got two townies and xatalos joins. What happens right after catalos drops unforgiven (only he and suki were on unforgiven at that point)? Suki decides to drop unforgiven as well and come over to ange. Either xatalos has the lead in pushing their two votes around or suki realizes that unforgiven isn't going to be a target now that townxat has moved, and moves her vote to keep it relevant and pushing a townie who might get lynched.

So as of now, I'm reading Xatalos town and Golden scummy. Xatalos has moved, but moved with reasons and moved his vote at decent times. He's never the first on maybe, but he gives some reasoning and he's never the last off. Golden has held his vote this whole time, while suki moves around and heist is sitting on superouman.

Ange posts her case on suki. Xatalos responds, saying there are some mistakes, not moving off of suki. He doesn't just tell her the case is wrong though. He says, + Show Spoiler +
On June 02 2012 04:15 Xatalos wrote:
Ange777, your case against Suki gives me hope that you might become an asset for the Mafia hunt after all. More so than Superouman or Unforgiven_ve. However, you made mistakes / mispresentations. Suki jumping on the lynch push for you (in favor of his better Mafia read) isn't really suspicious in itself, since the other option was to basically vote for no-lynch (Unforgiven_ve had no other votes, so it could have as well been voting for no-lynch). It's actually the most logical thing to do as town (unless you think you can turn the tide of the thread in 3 hours) to ensure a lynch, even if it isn't your best Mafia read. I also dislike how you put so much faith in Unforgiven_ve's initial defense, while to me it just looked like angry deflection and dodging. Unforgiven_ve had one decent post later, but why you would bring up his most Mafia-esque post as his defense, I can't say. I can certainly see why someone would feel suspicious of Unforgiven_ve at this point. Do you think Suki is Mafia if you consider these points? What are your other reads? Please share what you can, as fast as you can.
. I get a further town read off that. (1) He's responding almost immediately to her case. Not with a very robust defense, but just noting it. (2) He doesn't agree with it, but he's not confrontational about it. His post, if you read it without thinking about the current situation, reads like he feels good about the case, but notes that there are some things Ange might not be taking into account, and then he comes to the bolded part. He sticks Suki's name right next to the word mafia, and asks if she still thinks that Suki is mafia given the other items he brings up. He's openly inviting Ange to post another "Suki is mafia" post, and a stronger one at that. Again, part of the post looks like a soft-defense of Suki, but the post as a whole opens Suki up for more criticism.

Ange has the bit where she FoSes Unforgiven. Xatalos follows her there. Not that odd, considering he'd already pushed unforgiven earlier. Easier to see him moving his vote to a non-ange/suki candidate when he was already on that person. Golden still has yet to (1) vote OR (2) comment on ange's case on suki. heist comes in to push unforgiven, to say he thinks ange and suki are townie. No mention of golden at all, who's the ONLY person yet to vote and hasn't responded to the suki case, one of the few players to do so. Why is heist not suspicious of golden? Thread brings up golden a few times, but he never becomes a giant topic of discussion, so it's not enough for me that heist doesn't call out golden for being absent because some townies fail to do so as well. Neither suki nor heist mentions his absence though.


Okay, there's my D1 stream of consciousness. Looking back at that, I see golden coming off scummy, although the end of the day is ruined a little by his absolute absence. While xatalos moves his vote, I'm not seeing it move in a very scummy way. Moreover, the way that xatalos pushes for further information on suki feels very town to me. Also, as a minor point, I don't like how suki/heist/golden all pushing cattivik early and xatalos is not jumping aboard. Seems like maybe mafia team wanted to set cattivik up, because eishi_ki was suspicious of him, so you've got an easy bandwagon to start pushing.




Fe fi fo fum.
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
June 08 2012 21:45 GMT
#644
RIGHT at the start of N1, xatalos active. Same minute as the nightpost he mentions the suspense. Then posts what the suki lynch means for other players. If he's scum, why is already moving forward with the information from the suki lynch? Scum should at least be waiting, not coming out within 3 minutes to already start adjusting reads and being proactive.

Later on N1, xatalos pushes ange for further reads. Again, he's asking others for reads, but why would mafia be asking Ange, who helped nail suki, to post her reads? Aren't you hoping she forgets?

D2 - Right after solstice gets killed, Vivax brings up that solstice's case was on heist. First response to that? ShiaoPi comes in to state not that the case was bad but that everyone should be coming to their own opinions.


Okay, I'm stopping this. When I'm looking at ShiaoPi's case, I see Xatalos scummy. When I look at Xatalos's case, I see ShiaoPi as slightly scummy. But if I just look through the first day and the timing on the way things played out, and who responded to what/when/how, I'm seeing golden/ShiaoPi as pretty clearly scummy.
Fe fi fo fum.
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
June 08 2012 21:47 GMT
#645
I don't want to waste the last 15 minutes of this night continuing to read through. I'm ready to commit to a ShiaoPi lynch tomorrow.

To unforgiven, if you're here, do my thoughts match up with yours? I agree ShiaoPi was so unwilling to find heist scummy that it almost makes him look town. But if you get rid of that, which is just WIFOM, and you look back before the last day or two, ShiaoPi is looking much, much scummier than Xatalos to me.

Fe fi fo fum.
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
June 08 2012 22:00 GMT
#648
Oh, I guess I should address this too. Unforgiven, I'm not mafia.

(1) I'm ange. I made a poor replacement for her, but we're the same alignment.
(2) IF my unsure townie bit was an act, I could have kept it going. I was unsure for the last two hours or so, very vocal about it, clearly wavering between options and no lynch. But I dropped it and voted. I could have no lynched, sent the NK through, and started driving Xatalos with ShiaoPi tomorrow, hoping to pick either you or Milton up.
(3) Anac flipped town

That's a dumb little summary, waiting for night post.
Fe fi fo fum.
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
June 08 2012 22:01 GMT
#650
gg unforgiven

not even going to start playing the WIFOM game this time around, it always gets me in trouble.

##Vote: ShiaoPi
Fe fi fo fum.
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
June 08 2012 22:06 GMT
#653
Sorry Shiao, not once I reread. We shared the exact same opinions, but mine were wrong. More convinced that you were mafia than also wrong, given that everyone else found heist scummy.

And a lot of the early content, before the back and forth cases, seals it for me. Xatalos takes the lynches and tends to push straight forward with them. Golden cautions about a bandwagon on suki before one forms, you caution vivax about solstice's heist case before robust debate has really started.

Sure, there are townie reasons not to run away with solstice's case, but it's too much.
Fe fi fo fum.
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
June 08 2012 22:16 GMT
#660
Poked around a bit on Milton just to humor you. Not buying it.
Fe fi fo fum.
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
June 08 2012 22:33 GMT
#667
I'll just add that I'm alright with an early end to the day.
Fe fi fo fum.
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
June 08 2012 23:04 GMT
#671
I did.
Fe fi fo fum.
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
June 08 2012 23:24 GMT
#678
Nooooooooooooooo.

GG all, and quite well played Xatalos.

Ange sorry for soiling your good name!
Fe fi fo fum.
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
June 08 2012 23:39 GMT
#700
Thanks for hosting Toad, and thanks for the warnings about playing two games at once. Definitely shouldn't have committed to that, but I hate seeing so many modkills

On June 09 2012 08:27 Unforgiven_ve wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 09 2012 08:24 austinmcc wrote:
Nooooooooooooooo.

GG all, and quite well played Xatalos.

Ange sorry for soiling your good name!


nub

Yup, definitely still new. And my reads were wrong. But a smiley face doesn't make up for the fact that you were a dick this game and didn't help with the town environment.
Fe fi fo fum.
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
June 08 2012 23:53 GMT
#708
Yup, big thanks to the coaches. Mementoss, I didn't use you, but I'll assume your coaching was as good as Marv's. He managed to be really helpful without giving away or hinting at his own reads.

When I was reading over the setups pre-game, the all VT set-up sounded so much worse than the others. I was pleasantly surprised by how it worked out though, didn't actually notice the power roles lacking while playing. All it did was seem to confirm sciberbia, if anyone had suspicions, because of his comment on what Suki's roleblocker flip meant for the setup.
Fe fi fo fum.
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