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On May 29 2012 05:08 VisceraEyes wrote:
Dude I totally didn't even realize that BH was gunning for grush too! /facepalm
Okay, yeah...that makes sense then. Like, if he had been the first to push a grush policy lynch then that would be one thing: proposing a weak policy lynch that's guaranteed to be shot down is easy as fuck for scum...but wholly unnecessary if someone has already run on the platform of killing grush.
He could be telling the truth that they were typing their posts out at the same time.
I mean, if his only goal is really to kill off grush, then there's not really any reason for him to run as town either, when BH is already doing the same thing.
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On May 29 2012 04:55 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 03:37 strongandbig wrote:On May 28 2012 15:20 VisceraEyes wrote:
I mean, I spelled it out myself.
Okay, so I like Kita/Sinensis for scum so far...which is actually kinda disturbing, what do you think about 2 scum pretty much just claiming in thread like that? Seems too easy...but anyway there are lurkers to consider. What are the chances that ANY scum are among those who haven't posted yet? I think Mattchew or one of the other older players may be playing scummylurky. I recall ET did that explicitly and on purpose in SS mafia, maybe one of them (someone who recently lost a game as scum by being super active and leadery in the thread until I shot him) is doing that. + Show Spoiler [wiggles on me] +On May 28 2012 17:25 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
strongandbig:
I believe strongandbig is scummy because of how he made a decision to run for pardoner, and then just sort of fell out of the running and didn't even try to continue to gain support after being called out.
He comes in and makes a post saying that he wants to be the pardoner. Quickly, BH calls him out on it, and after some back and forth, he drops his candidacy. It seems to me that scum would love to be able to nab the role of pardoner. This is what strongandbig set out to do, but when he was actually called out about running specifically for pardoner and was put under pressure, he was very quick to just drop his candidacy altogether. I think this is a sign of being scum, since it displays that he was very nervous in running. I feel as though a townie in that position wouldn't back off from running so quickly and after so little pressure. Also, his reason for not continuing to run is odd as well. He says it's because there aren't separate elections, but in my eyes, it seems more because he didn't like that he immediately came under scrutiny and was pressured.
Even beyond his candidacy, strongandbig's posting has been very safe, and not very relevant to the game or contributory. He hasn't provided us with many original thoughts, and has been very reserved since he got called out by BH. Again, this looks like he's afraid of being in the spotlight or being put under pressure.
1. I stopped running for pardoner when I realized that it wasn't a separate election from the mayor's election. That's how it worked in the last game I played, and it wasn't specified in the OP. Once I figured out that it was the same election, I stopped running for reasons I've already explained -- I don't want to be mayor. 2. BH's "scrutiny" didn't make any sense at all! 2a: His first point was "why did you run for vice mayor instead of running for mayor, your reasons for running for vice mayor also apply to mayor." I had already answered that point (I don't trust my day1 reads enough to kill someone off). 2b: His second point was "hey first you said you wanted to do something different because blue roles are fun and then later you said that you want to keep pardoner power away from scum what gives those are different." I didn't mention keeping pardoner power away from scum because I thought it would be obvious; if a power is useful for scum and not for town then town should try to keep it away from scum. 3: IDK what you mean when you say I was "called out for running specifically for pardoner" - that's exactly what I was doing, it's not like I was trying to hide it or anything. I thought there were separate elections since it didn't say in the OP that the runner-up becomes the vice leader, I had to look through greymist's filter to figure that out. Basically, my point is that I wasn't trying to avoid scrutiny or the spotlight. There really just wasn't much worth responding to. Also after BH and ET blew up the thread over my poorly chosen comments about BH, I didn't want to drag the thread down any more. Think about this - if I was scum, by not posting I gave up a golden opportunity to get just as emotional as BH was and keep the thread fucked up for at least several more pages. What I mean by the called out comment is that BH called you out for running for pardoner, and instead of really defending your candidacy, you just dropped it. It looks suspicious to me, because it looks like you decided to stop running at the first sign of pressure, and just used the voting mechanics as an excuse.
Well, I really did just play in the Caller game which had different mechanics, and this game's mechanics really weren't explained in the OP. Hopefully we can agree on that, because those are actual neutral facts.
As for my motivations for dropping my candidacy, if you just straight up don't believe me then there's really nothing I can say to change that. I did what I did for exactly the reasons I said I did.
On May 29 2012 04:55 Mr. Wiggles wrote:
What do you think of sinensis?
I just read through his filter, didn't take very long.
He has pretty much not talked about anything but his policy lynch on grush, as well as a small amount of attacking people who disagree with it.
Clearly, I don't think this is helping town.
As for whether he's scum: right now I'm pretty much null on him, unfortunately. He's not really posting enough or attacking people enough to be playing a full-on thread-destroying VE style scum. His obsessive focus on the one issue could be a way for scum to hide from engaging with actual issues, but he's posting too much to be sure about that given that this game has so many actual super lurkers.
Basically, he looks like he could be scum using the grush issue as an excuse to avoid commenting on other things, or he could be a townie who actually is so mad about grush's play in the last game that he doesn't care about the other issues we've talked about on day 1.
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I'm going to respond to ET's case here, but I'd appreciate it if Wiggles also read it.
On May 29 2012 06:00 EchelonTee wrote:While I think Zealos/Mattchew are scummy for a few reasons, I'd rather hold off on them for a few reasons. You guys better step up your play if you're town. RE: StrongandbigThis case is late (which will be sure to set of Wiggles' alarm bells :p) and ninja'd for the most part, but here are my reasons for wanting to lynch SnB. His campaign post has been already pointed out as strange. Why state "I am running for mayor b/c blue role is fun"? It appears that he doesn't care to run for mayor to help town; even when townies run for mayor off of bad reasoning, they at least appear focused in some aspect. SnB's campaign feels like a small conglomarate of generic reasons ("I will make cases. I will use pardoner role if I think it's ok but I will discuss it") that could easily be faked by a newbie scum. While generally I would think newbie scum (he has had around 4 games now though? he's breaking out) would be reluctant to go for a role, note that his original election campaign was only for the pardoner. The pardoner role has much less accountability (no lynch, no extra vote), while still having some sway. I could see his vet scum buddies not wanting to go for election b/c no bodyguards, and instead let SnB go for it.
If you think I'm being "let go for an election" by veteran scum buddies, don't you think that they would have told me there was no pardoner election?
On May 29 2012 06:00 EchelonTee wrote:The majority of his filter is filled with posts like this, posts that don't really talk about much. While it is true that I have a long filter chock full of setup speculation, talking about general shit, etc., since I have a higher post count, I have the time to both post about that stuff, and post reads/opinions. In SnB's case, with his limited posting he has only posted one case, but worse so, he has posted very little opinions about anybody. He states that he thinks me and Wiggles look townie. Thanks bro, but that's about it.
You're ignoring the whole blazinghand thing. Seriously, do you think I should have done something other than just wait for that to blow over?
On May 29 2012 06:00 EchelonTee wrote:He states that he thinks supersoft is scummy, builds case. While his case isn't bad, it consists of "this turn by supersoft is not logical, therefore he is scum". Read this last paragraph from his case. + Show Spoiler +This reads to me either like SS and Toad are scum buddies trying to distance themselves and got too far, or (more likely) like a scum SS saw an opportunity to gain town cred by making an actual good case on a player who was not being towny but wasn't on his scum team, then backing off when he realized that the presence of third parties like a lyncher hurts town and probably helps scum. It doesn't take much to see that the logic there is pretty convoluted. "looks like a scum SS saw he could make town cred, but backed off when he realized toad could be lyncher"? ...
Do you disagree with my actual interpretation though? Or just think it's "convoluted"?
On May 29 2012 06:00 EchelonTee wrote:And even now, when given an opportunity to take a stance on someone (Sinensis), he is still waffly. No me gusta.
So what? You want me to say "yeah he's totally 100% scum lynch him instead of me?" I'm posting my honest opinion.
I'm on the verge of being lynched, it's not like hedging my bets is keeping me out of the spotlight or anything like that.
Obviously, I think that sinensis is a better lynch target than I am. He's got a very good chance of flipping mafia, and his play hasn't been helping town at all. It's just that after how the Holy Roman Empire game was thrown away by the last townie, I can also kind of empathize with him wanting to get revenge.
I also think Mattchew is a better lynch target than I am; his play is drastically different than normal, but we know he's paying enough attention to the thread to vote and tell us that he will be paying even less attention starting tomorrow.
I also think supersoft is a better lynch target than I am. You yourself said my case was not bad, plus check out his response to it. Totally willing to engage in discussion about his actions and posts, right?
On May 29 2012 06:00 EchelonTee wrote:Filter analysis seems to corroborate his scumminess. His filter from Wheel of Fortune. He talks about setup speculation in an extensive manner along with a plan (that code thing). Has opinions on several people D1. His filter from Space Station. Doesn't take stances on almost anyone, doesn't build much cases. Disclaimer: one of his first games.
This is partly due to the fact that this is an election game, but mostly due to me not wanting to shit up the thread with you and blazinghand.
On May 29 2012 06:00 EchelonTee wrote:Lastly, the case doesn't feel too "easy". This is more of an abstract thing, but when a lynch seems to be proceeding too easily (tons of people agreeing easily except for one or more so mavericks), then it feels like a mislynch. Think Janaan from TL Mafia LI; who actually opposed that lynch? SnB has had some people indicate that they see SnB as "null" or "not scummy enough" to lynch atm. However, since the progenitors of the case are people that I currently trust, I have reason to believe that the resistance is healthy, and the case is strong. I will kill SnB if elected. Alternatively, if Wiggles is elected I hope he will pick SnB over Sinensis.
I.... don't really think this makes much sense. I'm more likely to be scum because people think I'm less likely to be scum?
I mean, I realize you could be saying that the people doubting the bandwagon on me are my scummy buddies, I guess. But we both know that would be terrible play for them, and it's very unlikely that they would do this on day1 rather than just try and get themselves town cred. But that's just wifom anyway, so whatever.
But seriously ET, think this through for a minute.
You're saying I'm noob scum making obvious mistakes, but at the same time that the case on me is uncertain and my mistakes aren't so obvious that it's easy, so therefore it's better? I don't think that makes sense.
Either I'm a noob scum, who ran a retarded election for a position that isn't actually elected, then explicitly told people not to vote for anyone who was only running for that position. Who attacked a couple of players' campaigns for mayor and then backed off when one of them got emotional about it. Who could have taken the opportunity to push for the easier lynch on sinensis but instead tried to get people to look at supersoft for no strategically sound reason. Who even then when given a second chance to attack sinensis, didn't firmly say he was scum.
Or I'm a new-ish townie, who came out of a game with a similar election and made a simple mistake, who didn't want to shit up the thread when blazinghand exploded at me, and who is trying to get people to look at the players I think are scummy.
The latter of these two is both much simpler and true. I'm town.
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Also I'll be changing my vote away from the person who is playing LoL instead of reading my response to his case, and to the person who didn't say they would kill me no matter what before I had a chance to respond.
##unvote
##vote: MrWiggles
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On May 29 2012 06:44 EchelonTee wrote:
I didn't say I would kill you no matter what blah blah blah, and I'm reading your response lol. Though voting for Wiggles is just fine.
I also don't think your case on supersoft is good.
My biggest point on you is the whole "no opinions on people".
Any other lynch candidates?
Other than Mattchew and Sinensis? (And supersoft, but I'm assuming he's the one who you want other ones than.)
Not really. There's a lot of lurking going on, but it's pretty much impossible to just pull one out of that pile. There's three reasons I pulled out Mattchew: 1. we know he usually doesn't play like this, 2. he said he'd be gone starting tomorrow, yet here he is having barely posted all weekend, and 3. he is paying enough attention to vote and comment on the candidates, but not enough to actually say anything.
But basically, no I don't have any other lynch candidates from those three. I also think Toad is lying about being a mason; his roleclaim doesn't make any sense, and neither do his reasons for claiming. He is behaving like a lyncher would, and if people think that's fine to leave alive then he doesn't make sense as a day1 lynch, since he chose to claim mason and we can confirm that.
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I was looking over the voting thread, since I have an obvious interest in it at the moment.
Kenpachi, Meeple, phagga, alderan, cwave, MidnightGladius and FirmTofu all have not yet voted, and there are two hours left.
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On May 29 2012 20:17 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On May 29 2012 20:05 Zealos wrote:On May 29 2012 19:06 supersoft wrote:
does anyone disagree that zealos needs to be vigged? I explained that I didn't have the time to post yesterday, so vigging me will be killing a townie. Any reason you're so keen to do that? Good point! It's actually literally impossible for a mafia player to do that, and by saying "I was busy for 48 hours" you're doing something that only a town player could do! That really DOES excuse your D1 play :D Furthermore, your VT claim TOTALLY makes sense, was 100% useful to town, and definitely won't help scum target the blues.  As a final note, when people make weird claims like that, post nothing for 48 hours, then make non-reasons to defend themselves not posting any reads or pressure D1, that's unbelievably helpful, and really is how all TL townies should play. You are not suspicious at all. 
Look, BH - I understand that you were offended, and I shouldn't have said what I said. I apologized to you twice, and tried to explain what I meant/should have said. Can we move on now? Posts like the one I quoted and the one before it in your filter aren't helping the town atmosphere.
Let's also clear something up so we can move on. Are you satisfied with how I responded to your pressure on my aborted pardoner campaign or do you still want me to explain myself?
@stofu:
Your long reads post reminds me a lot of what I would have posted in my first scum games. I ended up subconsciously being very noncommittal that game, even though I didn't mean to. So how about you commit to something - who is your number 1 scum read? If you were a compulsive vigilante (had to shoot someone tonight) who would you shoot? (those don't have to be the same person.)
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On May 29 2012 03:03 supersoft wrote:
My strongest townread is forumite and therefor i vote him for office. I think everyone should do the same. Result will be, that most likely townplayers are in this office and not some players you guys expect to win the game for you. Btw this office with no bodyguards is no office we want to vote the players in, who are in danger of getting shot tonight.
As long as we're talking about super soft, I still haven't heard any response other than "wrong" explaining how this plan is not super scummy.
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@supersoft:
Lynching zealos was in no way the town consensus. It may have been the consensus of two or three players who were around and talking near deadline, but the doesn't make it the town consensus. There had been much more discussion about lynching either me or Sinensis.
And I explained why your plan is scummy. I don't agree that votes would automatically congeal around a few people if everyone just voted their strongest town read, and my evidence is twofold: 1, votes were already congealing around et and wiggles, and your plan would have strongly diluted them, and 2, town reads really do diverge a great deal. Apparently you got a town read from toad somehow after his mason claim. Apparently forumite thinks you're town for some reason.
I think it looks like a scum win-win to post your plan when you did. Either you get people off of the two main candidates and increase the coordination of scum, or you get to park your vote on someone who wasn't running for anything, thus getting to do exactly what you are doing now: avoid taking a position on the day1 lynch, and then Monday morning quarterbacking it later.
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BH: I thought you were making fun of him because you were mad about him bringing up the fight between you and ET. I was responding to that post and the one you posted before it in context together, but I'm on my phone ATM so it's hard to quote more than one post at a time.
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On May 30 2012 06:14 Forumite wrote:
S&B, where you be?
Still in lab bro.
Any questions in particular I can answer when I get out?
I still think supersoft is scummy, mattchew is still weirdly lurking but at least this time it's when he said he would be lurking. He still didn't post nearly enough d1 though.
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Dude seriously. Your whole attitude this game needs a reality check.
Why should we "know you"? idgaf if you were some kinda hotshot a year or two ago. You ain't done shit this game, and you're gonna get judged by how you play in the game that's currently going on.
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Interesting - assuming Zim is a scum role (since he's an irken) then Forumite would have been like Kenpachi in Aperture mafia - kind of a townie who leaves the thread with a big "screw you guys, I'm going home" when he makes his alternate win con.
I wonder if he has some kind of super power, like how Drazerk was included in aperture to balance kitaman.
Probably not though.
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Could Mattchew have been a vig shot? MZ and Foru make way more sense as scum kills but Mattchew doesn't make any sense there.
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Ummmm, mattchew - if I was a vig I would've shot you. It doesn't take secret scum knowledge to realize that it would be retarded for scum to shoot you after how you posted d1 and n1.
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@toad - meapak is relatively vet-ish, was posting a lot and looking pretty townie. How is that not a better scum target than mattchew, who is vet-ish but posted almost not at all and was super scummy?
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On May 30 2012 09:23 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On May 30 2012 09:21 strongandbig wrote:
Ummmm, mattchew - if I was a vig I would've shot you. It doesn't take secret scum knowledge to realize that it would be retarded for scum to shoot you after how you posted d1 and n1. why did you assume MZ was shot by mafia and not by a vig like Supersoft has asked people to?
Cause I think supersoft is scum. Or at least, he's suspicious enough that vigs wouldn't be listening to him for targets.
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Mattchew at least try and interact with the thread.
Your play previous to this had been so bad that it made me think you are scum. See my earlier posts.
I'm choosing to assume scum are not retarded.
Like I said before, if I was a vig again I would have shot you again this game, just like I did last game.
(oh wait, you were scum last game? Huh!)
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Hyaach I assume you're talking to me as well?
You have like four posts. You wanted to not vote. Then you voted for someone who wasn't a candidate, thus avoiding taking a stand on the election or the first lynch. You actually didn't post at all during the night. Now you're jumping in with two posts in a row bandwagoning on Mattchew's dipshit "trap"? What gives?
As for your actual comments: Yes I do think targeting a vet who's been posting scummily and who is lurking out of character is likely, if someone thought he was scum. It's what I would have done.
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On May 30 2012 09:41 Mattchew wrote:
If I was scum that would guarantee you being scum lol... And my previous posts were not bad I said upfront I wasnt going to be around and didn't want the mayor position cause of that
You said you weren't going to be around on Tuesday.
You didn't post on Sunday or Monday either. Tuesday was N1, but you didn't post at all D1 either.
Your only posts - literally - were an excuse for not posting despite being around, some dumb thing about Kenpachi, and a one-liner with your vote. Given how much you post usually, and the total lack of content in the posts you did make, that's enough for me to call your posting "terrible."
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EPT
